smokie:
In Nigeria, it seems progress stalled as soon as the British packed up and left.

For goodness sake stop repeating this lie that the British were making some sort of major progress developmentally in Nigeria during the colonial era. It has been debunked over and over again.

Also, I want to point out that the British contributed heavily to setting up a politically unstable Nigeria anyway by their insistence on dividing the country into three (why three? Why not two? Why not five? Why not seven? Why even divide it at all? They chose that number for a specific reason - to create three specific separate power blocs within one country) factions for "administrative convenience" but then deliberately making the three divisions along ethnic/cultural/religious lines (and let no Nigerian reading this claim that they divided the country along the major rivers as that would be false) instead of any other arrangement.

How can the British deliberately choose to create three practically separate governments within a future country that correspond roughly to three separate cultural/ethnic sectors of the country that view each other almost as strangers, and then when these groups start vying for power and start trying to outmaneuver one another and ethnic/sectional tensions arise, people will actually claim that the British had no hand in it simply because they've recently left?

The thing is, even with the sectionalist setup that they gave us, we should have overcome sectionalism by the 80s, but it seems to have persisted. So as much of a role as the British had in what happened in the 50s and 60s, they can't be blamed for what still persists to this day. Nigerians need to solve this political problem with more than just optimism and it will most likely require a separation.

in the belief that our freedom was attained easily.

Nobody is talking about how black south Africans won their freedom. That's obviously not the issue. People were making developmental comparisons and comparisons about stability.


I'm only interested in pointing out why Nigeria is less stable than South Africa and unstable in general, since the reasons why it's less developed are obvious.

all4naija: How can that be possible when South Africa has the highest crime rate in Africa? Even sometime in the past the world highest.Dude, get your fact straight than complicating yourself.

South africa has the highest crime rate of a peacefully country(no war no terrorism no disorder extra) with reliable statistic. Nigeria statics if released are not trusted and you are not in the country at peace group.

andrewza:



I take it english was not your primary subject. Did you even pass english. I never said nigeria had the highest crime rate in Africa I said it was higher than SA. And I stand by that. The terrorist actions, oil theft, corruption, extra add up.

We are doing something about AIDS there are free ARV's free testing and a massive awareness campaign. The HIV/AIDS rate is decreasing and those infected can live a full life.

Guatrain, new power plants, improvements at all Air ports and harbors, rapid increase in the economy, MTN, should I go on.


What do you mean. Lots of progress has happened in africa.

What do you mean by crime. Crime by people or the nation.

So, it is only South Africans who are doing something while Nigerians fold their arms? Bwahaha.

all4naija: So, it is only South Africans who are doing something while Nigerians fold their arms? Bwahaha.

No where did I say that. But we doing a lot more than you. How many ARV,s do you make or do you still buy them and what percentage of your population is checked.

andrewza:

No where did I say that. But we doing a lot more than you. How many ARV,s do you make or do you still buy them and what percentage of your population is checked.

This comes as an excuse! Indeed, you are ornery in this your overly exercising of swagger and superiority. It is annoying to say the least. Please, spare me that complex, dude!

PhysicsQED: Man shut up and stop spewing garbage about places you've never been to and know nothing about. We know what happened in SA, we don't need you to come here with these fantastical tales of superiority. Your president actually thought that showering could reduce the risk of getting HIV and you're here pretending to be some kind of superior breed. What a joke. Have a little honesty and admit that there was no similarity in the histories of SA and Nigeria to merit the kind of comparisons you were making and maybe then you can be taken seriously, until then you're in the same mental la la land your president was in when he was showering to avoid HIV. Just stop with the bullsh1t comparisons you think actually make sense and grow a brain.

Fool u don't even know me and u wanna tell me my own history. I've been to 9 countries on this continent stayed in Nairobi for 7 months so u must just shut up.

That's the problem with a few selfcentered Nigerians always think that u that are the know it alls of africa that u hold all the answers and that other peoples point of view don't matter, maybe that's why ur country is in that state cause u preach democracy and freedom of speach but its only freedom of speach when ur voice is heard.

You fools keep on talking about Aids as if your country don't have that problem. Nigeria can't even handle deseases like Yellow fever for wich there are vaccines readely avialible people are still affected by Polio in Nigeria a desease that S.A has eradicated 25years ago so just go and take a knap.

It seems thast ur the one who can't even stick to a simple question answer me this what has Mr Goodluck "Johnyboy" done for ur country.

Nigeria had a headstart in 1960 and what has ur socalled superior intellectualy supreme "goverments" done since than 0000? Only thing they gave u is a super sized ego that made u believe that 50years of "GOODLUCK" dictatorships is what ur intellectually supreme nation desires.

Ask yourself if Nigeria is ur Uthopia why are there more than a million Nigerians including some of ur well educated living in South Africa.

South Africa has many problems but we work and try to solve ours what are u doing to solve your 160million inflated ego's

PhysicsQED: Man shut up and stop spewing garbage about places you've never been to and know nothing about. We know what happened in SA, we don't need you to come here with these fantastical tales of superiority. Your president actually thought that showering could reduce the risk of getting HIV and you're here pretending to be some kind of superior breed. What a joke. Have a little honesty and admit that there was no similarity in the histories of SA and Nigeria to merit the kind of comparisons you were making and maybe then you can be taken seriously, until then you're in the same mental la la land your president was in when he was showering to avoid HIV. Just stop with the bullsh1t comparisons you think actually make sense and grow a brain.

Fool u don't even know me and u wanna tell me my own history. I've been to 9 countries on this continent stayed in Nairobi for 7 months so u must just shut up.

That's the problem with a few selfcentered Nigerians always think that u are the know it alls of africa that u hold all the answers and that other peoples points of view don't matter, maybe that's why ur country is in that state cause u preach democracy and freedom of speach but its only freedom of speach when ur voice is heard.

Fool u on talking about Aids as if your country don't have that problem. Nigeria can't even handle deseases like Yellow fever for wich there are vaccines readely avialible people are still affected by Polio in Nigeria a desease that S.A has eradicated 25years ago so just go and take a knap.

It seems that u can't even stick to a simple question answer me what has Mr Goodluck "Johnyboy" done for ur country.

Nigeria had a headstart in 1960 and what has ur socalled superior intellectualy supreme "goverments" done since than 0000? Only thing they gave u is a super sized ego that made u believe that 50years of "GOODLUCK" dictatorships is what ur intellectually supreme nation desires.

Ask yourself if Nigeria is your Uthopia why are there more than a million Nigerians including some of ur well educated living in South Africa.

South Africa has many problems but we work and try to solve ours what are u doing to solve your 160million inflated ego's

snydergp:

Fool u don't even know me and u wanna tell me my own history. I've been to 9 countries on this continent stayed in Nairobi for 7 months so u must just shut up.

That's the problem with a few selfcentered Nigerians always think that u that are the know it alls of africa that u hold all the answers and that other peoples point of view don't matter, maybe that's why ur country is in that state cause u preach democracy and freedom of speach but its only freedom of speach when ur voice is heard.

You fools keep on talking about Aids as if your country don't have that problem. Nigeria can't even handle deseases like Yellow fever for wich there are vaccines readely avialible people are still affected by Polio in Nigeria a desease that S.A has eradicated 25years ago so just go and take a knap

It seems thast ur the one who can't even stick to a simple question answer me this what has Mr Goodluck "Johnyboy" done for ur country.

Nigeria had a headstart in 1960 and what has ur socalled superior intellectualy supreme "goverments" done since than 0000? Only thing they gave u is a super sized ego that made u believe that 50years of "GOODLUCK" dictatorships is what ur intellectually supreme nation desires.

Ask yourself if Nigeria is ur Uthopia why are there more than a million Nigerians including some of ur well educated living in South Africa.

South Africa has many problems but we work and try to solve ours what are u doing to solve your 160million inflated ego's

Yet the superior South Africans with the developed blahblah can't curtail HIV/AIDS. Not only that it is a shame to see your president saying something about shower as a way to prevent the condition. Jeez! What going on in you guys' brain. When one thinks one has seen the worst some of you ignorant South Africans would pop out from unknown-where to outperform that.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Katsumoto: I am with PhysicsQED on this.

Nigeria in its current makeup will lead to the same situation that Ndu chucks thinks Nigeria will get to with breakup. More and more, different groups are clamouring for autonomy. At a minimum, Nigeria must embrace complete confederationism because the unitary style has not worked and will not work for a number of reasons

1. The religious diversity of the various regions
2. The differing history and culture of the various regions
3. Each region should be allowed to make progress as it wants to without pressure of the other regions.


@ Ndu chucks

What is it about breakup that really scares you?

The bolded (complete confederation) above, is what we must strive to accomplish. Unlike many of the lazy intellectuals who are out of touch with the realities on ground in Nigeria, I believe that this is a better and achievable alternative than violently splitting up the country. Nigeria cannot be split up peacefully given her complex makeup.

I cannot support any scenario which will lead to the deaths of millions of Nigerians. Period.

snydergp:

Fool u don't even know me and u wanna tell me my own history. I've been to 9 countries on this continent stayed in Nairobi for 7 months so u must just shut up.

That's the problem with a few selfcentered Nigerians always think that u are the know it alls of africa that u hold all the answers and that other peoples points of view don't matter, maybe that's why ur country is in that state cause u preach democracy and freedom of speach but its only freedom of speach when ur voice is heard.

Fool u on talking about Aids as if your country don't have that problem. Nigeria can't even handle deseases like Yellow fever for wich there are vaccines readely avialible people are still affected by Polio in Nigeria a desease that S.A has eradicated 25years ago so just go and take a knap.

It seems that u can't even stick to a simple question answer me what has Mr Goodluck "Johnyboy" done for ur country.

Nigeria had a headstart in 1960 and what has ur socalled superior intellectualy supreme "goverments" done since than 0000? Only thing they gave u is a super sized ego that made u believe that 50years of "GOODLUCK" dictatorships is what ur intellectually supreme nation desires.

Ask yourself if Nigeria is your Uthopia why are there more than a million Nigerians including some of ur well educated living in South Africa.

South Africa has many problems but we work and try to solve ours what are u doing to solve your 160million inflated ego's

You actually think Nigeria had a developmental headstart to South Africa in 1960? Is this some kind of joke? I'm going to ignore that one because it's such an incomprehensibly dumb claim and it confirms what I said about you not knowing ANYTHING about the places you're talking about and whose history you foolishly want to attempt to compare.

I didn't talk about the rates of AIDS or what was being done to reduce it. The AIDS prevalence rate in Nigeria is 3.10% whereas in South Africa it's 18.10% so it would be a cheap shot from me if I attempted to compare AIDS rates. I merely laughed at the thought of a group of people who elected someone so dumb he thought a shower would affect AIDS claiming some kind of superiority over another group. There was obviously a better candidate somewhere in SA, just as there are better candidates than those that get elected in Nigeria, but how you can have somebody like that as president but claim superiority is astonishing.

Oh yeah, and when the British left, there was little to nothing on the ground to significantly tackle yellow fever, polio, malaria, and many other things, so the majority of efforts made to tackle those ills are through NIGERIAN effort and outreach. Not from colonizers.

The problem I have with all your delusional comparisons, is that you actually know nothing about the history of the place you can't stop talking about (Nigeria) but insist on comparing it developmentally or politically with South Africa in a such a way as to claim superiority when there are virtually NO similarities in the history of politics of the two countries.

I insist that if you did go to Lagos (I'm skeptical of the claim), you were unable to go to the richer areas and that's why you were spewing the garbage you were spewing earlier. On GEJ, there is a whole legion of debates on what GEJ has or hasn't achieved, but what I know is that unlike some presidents in certain other countries that shower to attempt remove the risk of AIDS and who get accused of ra[i]p[/i]e, he doesn't have a cushy, comfortable base that was already there from which to start from. Whether it's electricity or water or agriculture or disease, he has to tackle it practically from the ground up with the support of those Nigerians that are willing to help.

andrewza:

Those 3 counties have greater industrial capabilities than Nigeria.

And they were all formed with the industrial capabilities or those countries developed their industrial capabilities.

That argument is weak because any country can decide to increase its capabilities in any sector if it so chooses.

Nigeria has the resources to rival, and even surpass, those countries if it gets its act together.

Malaysia which is the world's second exporter of palm oil learned the cultivation from Nigeria in the 50s. Nigeria is now 24/25.

ndu_chucks:

The bolded (complete confederation) above, is what we must strive to accomplish. Unlike many of the lazy intellectuals who are out of touch with the realities on ground in Nigeria, I believe that this is a better and achievable alternative than violently splitting up the country. Nigeria cannot be split up peacefully given her complex makeup.

I cannot support any scenario which will lead to the deaths of millions of Nigerians. Period.

Alhaji Ndu chuks is ready to fight to preserve Nigeria at all costs.

The USSR, which was more complex than the current Nigeria, split peacefully.

Katsumoto:

Alhaji Ndu chuks is ready to fight to preserve Nigeria at all costs.

The USSR, which was more complex than the current Nigeria, split peacefully.

was ussr really more complex than nigeria?me thinks theey are or were on the same level

Katsumoto:

And they were all formed with the industrial capabilities or those countries developed their industrial capabilities.

That argument is weak because any country can decide to increase its capabilities in any sector if it so chooses.

Nigeria has the resources to rival, and even surpass, those countries if it gets its act together.

Malaysia which is the world's second exporter of palm oil learned the cultivation from Nigeria in the 50s. Nigeria is now 24/25.

So why dose Nigeria lag behind in this regard.

And this is true but false. Yes you can decide to build up one sector but it is not easy and requires effort, time and the will.

This true. If you could pull together and strive to improve your nation you could be great.

This is a sad fact.

all4naija: Yet the superior South Africans with the developed blahblah can't curtail HIV/AIDS. Not only that it is a shame to see your president saying something about shower as a way to prevent the condition. Jeez! What going on in you guys' brain. When one thinks one has seen the worst some of you ignorant South Africans would pop out from unknown-where to outperform that.

CONGRATULATIONS!

The numbers show that we are getting a hand on it. But we can not decrease the number of current infected. They still alive has such the rate of increase is bloody low considering the number of current infected.

andrewza:

The numbers show that we are getting a hand on it. But we can not decrease the number of current infected. They still alive has such the rate of increase is bloody low considering the number of current infected.

Another misconception. And, it is good that your health ministry rejected 500,000 AIDS test kits.

Please, bad-mouthing other African country, in this case Nigeria doesn't pay, dude. The topic is meant to be a question which your like, superior-inclined braggarts South Africans turn into criminalizing of Nigerians as people.


Once again, CONGRATULATIONS for your effort to look innocent of the African problems!

Katsumoto:

And they were all formed with the industrial capabilities or those countries developed their industrial capabilities.

That argument is weak because any country can decide to increase its capabilities in any sector if it so chooses.

Nigeria has the resources to rival, and even surpass, those countries if it gets its act together.

Malaysia which is the world's second exporter of palm oil learned the cultivation from Nigeria in the 50s. Nigeria is now 24/25.

You think that's good?

My favorite example: Korea --

In 1961 the Nigerian economy was twice as big as Korea's.

Ki-Katanga:


You think that's good?

My favorite example: Korea --

In 1961 the Nigerian economy was twice as big as Korea's.

Was South African not larger as well? Isn't South Korea economy larger than that of South Africa presently?
You have a problem with anything Nigeria, dude.

Why is South Africa more developed and stable than Nigeria is the question?

asha 80:

was ussr really more complex than nigeria?me thinks theey are or were on the same level

Of course the USSR is more complex than Nigeria. USSR was borne out of war and conflict

1.It has had more revolutions; in the 20th century alone, it had the revolution of 1905, the February revolution (1917) that brought the Mensheviks to power ending the Romanov dynasty in the process. It also had the October revolution (1917) which brought Lenin’s Bolsheviks to power.

2. It fought a bloodier civil war from 1917 – 1923, which consolidated the Bolsheviks grip on power but led to the Independence of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, and Lithuania.

3. War with Poland which ended with the Peace of Riga, splitting Belarus and Ukraine between Poland and Soviet Russia.

4. The rule of Stalin, which was more brutal than all Nigeria dictators combined. In the 1930s alone, Russian historians estimate that 700,000 people were executed by the NKVD, including those killed on foreign soil such as Trotsky, Klement, Porestsky.

5. It is estimated that 27 million soviets died during the second world war.

6. USSR foreign policy, especially its communist influences over independent states such as Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia.

7. The cold war

Apart from the Nigerian civil war, which led to the deaths of millions of people, Nigeria has not suffered from conflict as the USSR did. Nigeria’s current state, is largely a result of the greed on the part of its political class.

Ki-Katanga:


You think that's good?

My favorite example: Korea --

In 1961 the Nigerian economy was twice as big as Korea's.

I agree but my point to Andrewza was that any nation can raise its capabilities in any sector if it has the will.

In fact -- contradicting a point I've being arguing.

Since South Africa's independence, Nigeria's economy has increased ten times over compared with South Africa's trebling. That's a fantastic statistic.

The major Caveat for that one would be that South Africa has well in excess of three times the GDP per capita, and Nigeria started, even in 1994, after 34 years of independence from an exceptionally low base.

In 2011, the GDP per capita in South Africa was $8,070 vs $1,452 for Nigeria.

However, the Gini percentage of South Africa is 67% and that of Nigeria is 43% meaning that Nigeria is more equal - although that's more a reflection of Nigeria having a very small middle class just a few very wealthy and many very poor, whereas South Africa has a reasonable middle class as well as a few very wealthy and a big bulk of very poor.

all4naija: Was South African not larger as well? Isn't South Korea economy larger than that of South Africa presently?
You have a problem with anything Nigeria, dude.

Why is South Africa more developed and stable than Nigeria is the question?

South Africa is less than a third size of Nigeria.

Ki-Katanga:


South Africa is less than half the size of Nigeria.

That is when you mean population. But geographically, it is larger than Nigeria and rich in gold and other rich/expensive solid minerals.

all4naija: That is when you mean population. But geographically, it is larger than Nigeria and rich in gold and other rich/expensive solid minerals.

South Africa is 25% bigger (1.2 million km² vs 0.9 million km²)

But Nigeria has more oil which is far more valuable in terms of mining to resale.

all4naija: Another misconception. And, it is good that your health ministry rejected 500,000 AIDS test kits.

Please, bad-mouthing other African country, in this case Nigeria doesn't pay, dude. The topic is meant to be a question which your like, superior-inclined braggarts South Africans turn into criminalizing of Nigerians as people.


Once again, CONGRATULATIONS for your effort to look innocent of the African problems!

Sorry what do you mean by this. What dose reject test kits mean to you.

Since when did we "criminalizing" any body from nigeria.

And what do you mean look innocent of the african problems. We know we have problems and we are trying to deal with them.

Ki-Katanga:


South Africa is less than half the size of Nigeria.

I am not sure I get your point, please explain.

Switzerland is a fifth of South Africa but has almost double of SA's GDP.

andrewza:

Sorry what do you mean by this. What dose reject test kits mean to you.

Since when did we "criminalizing" any body from nigeria.

And what do you mean look innocent of the african problems. We know we have problems and we are trying to deal with them.

It hurts,dude! Yes, they reject what would have helped to keep the infection at bay!

all4naija: Was South African not larger as well? Isn't South Korea economy larger than that of South Africa presently?
You have a problem with anything Nigeria, dude.

Why is South Africa more developed and stable than Nigeria is the question?

Yes SK has a larger economy than SA.

all4naija: It hurts,dude! Yes, they reject what would have helped to keep the infection at bay!

No it dose not hurt. It is irrelevant. You can still get tested for free.

all4naija:
You have a problem with anything Nigeria, dude.

No I don't, South Africa's performance is pitiful too. All of Africa's performance has been pathetic compared to the rest of the World. And it comes down to tribalism and bad governance.

Look at Afghanistan (another fragile, failing tribal society, even before the British and Americans bombed the hell out of it) when people divide themselves into tribal subsets of people they vote on tribal lines rather than on policy or aptitude.

In South Africa, the problem is the forgone conclusion that is the ANC. Until people realise that they don't owe the ANC anything other than the gratiude for their struggle, it will continue to disgrace itself as a party of nepotism, inheritance and cronyism.

Ki-Katanga:
a reflection of Nigeria having a very small middle class just a few very wealthy and many very poor

"Nigeria’s middle class accounts for about 23 per cent of its population, according to African Development Bank data."

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/survey-nigerias-middle-class-growing/99455/

^^^

But that's only if results from three major cities (Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt) are anything reasonable to go by.


More on the middle class:

http://www.hktdc.com/info/mi/a/ef/en/1X07XB5Y/1/Economic-Forum/Nigeria-S-Rising-Middle-Class-Marks-New-Waves-Of-Consumerism.htm

http://www.consultancyafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=943:growing-middle-class-and-favourable-economic-conditions-push-nigerias-retail-sector-forward-&catid=82:african-industry-a-business&Itemid=266

PhysicsQED:

"Nigeria’s middle class accounts for about 23 per cent of its population, according to African Development Bank data."

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/survey-nigerias-middle-class-growing/99455/

^^^

But that's only if results from three major cities (Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt) are anything reasonable to go by.


More on the middle class:

http://www.hktdc.com/info/mi/a/ef/en/1X07XB5Y/1/Economic-Forum/Nigeria-S-Rising-Middle-Class-Marks-New-Waves-Of-Consumerism.htm

http://www.consultancyafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=943:growing-middle-class-and-favourable-economic-conditions-push-nigerias-retail-sector-forward-&catid=82:african-industry-a-business&Itemid=266

http://www.afdb.org/fileadmin/uploads/afdb/Documents/Publications/The%20Middle%20of%20the%20Pyramid_The%20Middle%20of%20the%20Pyramid.pdf

The source for that study.

The 23% figure includes the "floating class" defined as people earning $2-4 per day, i.e. not technically in poverty. To me that's not the middle class.
Without the $4 and under per day (how $4 a day is middle class, I have no idea) the figure is 9.9% compared to 19.8% for South Africa.

If you took the middle class as being $10,000 per annum, I think you'd have something representative, but those figures aren't there.