dearzi,

I think you would have advised I should not eat at all or anoint my face with the variuos oils using a deodorant has already told you as the meaning implies To take away bad odor if you have it.

Yes out of 2 or more wittness a truth is established. you talked about making xtianity Hard? read the Very words of Jesus where he said the way is difficult. It is not difficult or hard because he made it so but because we are in the body and our body demands things that are contrary to God.


Please If you have a daughter may be you will let go further and have Breast plastic upgrade Facial Plastic Surgery hair transplant and other types of deformity so that her man will be kept to her when she marries. I ask you Where is The Line in the LOOK GOOD BOOKS THAT ARE ARROUND.

Whatever will enhance the body my brother in the way God made it please "Touch it" But if it is sinful it make us looks less than the way God made us please flee it.

Backslider

When my daughter's of the age, i'm sure she won't go that crazy. I have nothing against looking good, but because i'll raise my kids in the way they ought, by the word of God, i'm sure such madness will be far from them.

I'll only advise you to go and study your bible again, and this time, don't read it like a theologian. Get several translations, cuz you sound like you have only KJV. You really should not use deodorant oh! it wasn't given to us from the garden of Eden, and hence it is taking away from God's original plan.

Backslider

Oh!! About Christianity being hard--once again, please go and study to show yourself approved unto God RIGHTLY dividing His word, and not coming here to scare people. We're to fight the good fight of faith. Yes, we face challenges like the rest of the world, but guess what, "in all of these things, we are more than conquerors." i don't know of you, but i am born of God, and i have overcome already, i have the victory, already, in this hard life of Christianity. Maybe if you knew that, you won't see Christianity as a labor. There's so much to say, but now, i understand Paul when he said when he said he couldn't speak unto his followers in Corinth (i think) as spiritual, but as babes.

@ Dearzi,

You seem to suggest that the KJV is not right?

We have been drinking milk there shall soon be no more time for growing up in this race to heaven the hard food of the word needs to be absorbed if you dont have teeth start growing now.

@ Backslider,
      I like the way you put it :" if you don't have teeth start growing now" 


@ dearzi and backslider,
But seriously, the church has to be careful when it comes to matters such as the Pharisee- style legalism and spiritual pride on the one hand; and "hyper-grace" (licence), the casting off of restraint, and `experience- centred' Christianity which can also lead to great error on the other.

In other words, history has shown that the two extemities (i.e legalism and licence) has led to errors in the church.

Backslider

In addition to needing several bible translations, you might be needing English lessons. Getting several bible translations would not take away from you, it'll only help you get a clearer picture of what the bible means/ the language. You seem not to understand your bible that's why i recommended other translations.

There's no need to start growing teeth, i'm eating solid food, you might need to take your own advice.

KDK
You lost me o! what has legalism and license got to do with anything that i was saying? no be fight o! i'm just wondering how it fit into this picture.

Ok! i'm outta this conversation.

@ Dearzi
Because you've been making comments that indicates that you are of the LICENCE point of view. Perhaps you don't understand what I meant sha. It's all good.
Why are you leaving this conversation? I have been following this thread for a while and it was 'because of you and backslider I even had a post here.

Dear Backslider and Dearzi:
I have read through this forum, especially the discourse between you distinguished individuals, quite interesting!!. I will keep my contributions as self explanatory as possible. I am more in tune/agreement with the position of Dearzi in this discussion, however, I recognise that excesses can come from unchecked understanding or application of grace of God.
The Bible is our foundaton of truth, to learn from and admonish; however when reading the Bible (both old and new testaments), rather than take it literaly as it is written, the following questions will help us in getting the best from the words in any situation:

1) What did the bible say about it? e.g adoning of jewellery, perming of hair etc
2) To whom was it said in the Bible, wether old or new testament
3) In what context was it said e.g the epistels of Timothy that you quoted in supporting your arguments againt hair 'finishing'
4) How does it apply to my/our life; or this present circustances, times etc

These questions will help in getting the best from the bible; having a personal relationship with the Word of God; and living a life of Joy and divine liberty under the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. It's likely, depending on each individual, that we might need further help from those more spiritually matured in understanding e.g church, however the Holy Spirit is available to give understanding to all when we ask in openness of heart.
The world is dynamic, culture is changing, however HOLINESS remains the same. You cannot judge a book by it's covers (sound familiar?) the same applies to human being. Emphasis should not be on what you wear or how you look, within the limits of decent dressing, but rather how is your HEART/THOUGHTS/MIND with God.
The rigidity of Deeper Life to refuse to be dynamic in an increasingly modern world will definitely result in two things (1) increasing modern, young people cannot or would rather not want to go to the church; and
(2) There will be a rise in fundamentalism among members of DLBC because of resistance to change in an increasing modern world.
It will be ignorant to ignore the dynamism of the world but emphasis should be on how to achieve and sustain holiness and spiritual maturity in a dynamic world without compromising the integrity of our faith. (This is one of the undoings of the islamic religion, thus it is becoming more and more irrelevant in the modern day in addition to exposure of it's idolatrous roots i.e Islam)

Please, please please Dearzi, dont go out of the conversation just because there are disagreements on issues, I am really realy enjoying and learning from your postings and conversation on this topic. Dont be surprised, there are others there too who want to hear more from you. pleeeeaaaseeeee

@ HAVILA,
Abeg, help me beg am o o o. Me too dey learn from 2 of them o o

Dressing if for Covering and Identity Purposes.

I must preserve my body and cover my body I must not be a stumbling block to my brother. I mus be very modest. My body belong to God and my husband or Wife, This is holiness and devotion.

Anything that does not[b] preserve[/b] my body you must know I can not allow this is modesty. I ask where in the bible that smoking wee cocaine or cigarette is a sin.

Backslider:

Dressing if for Covering and Identity Purposes.

I must preserve my body and cover my body I must not be a stumbling block to my brother. I mus be very modest. My body belong to God and my husband or Wife, This is holiness and devotion.

Anything that does not[b] preserve[/b] my body you must know I can not allow this is modesty. I ask where in the bible that smoking wee cocaine or cigarette is a sin.

I used to know someone who said that women in wrapper turned him on. so while one is busy trying 'not to be a stumbling block' to others, just know that you cannot please all the people all the time. It will do us good to please The One who made us who we are - Jehovah-Elohim, and trust Him to lead us in the right path.

This obsessive focus on the outside is more often than not to the detriment of the inside. Like KDK said earlier, the key is balance between extremeties.

The Word remains steadfast and true but remember that the letter of the law without the spirit leads to

I remember in the early '90s, a lot of christians in these ultra-'holy' churches, lost touch with reality because they were trying too hard in their own strength to 'fulfill all righteousness'. There was a case where a new convert was told just days after giving her life that"if you wear trousers to our church, WE'LL THROW YOU OUT!" Meanwhile, no-one bothered to take her through the rudiments of a convert; a new life in Christ.

That is what I found in DLBC and why youths run away. Maybe if they taught Christ and Him crucified, rather than doctrines, then the Word planted in the hearts of the young will have the opportunity to germinate and take hold and transform that life from the inside to the outside, PERMANENTLY and not only when 'brethren are present'

There was a day i was Having my Quiet time and I stumbled on a place where Jesus was Categoric of how HARD/ difficult it was to get into heaven.

I know to get to heaven is not easy not because God makes it hard but because we have not choosen to be different and to be in christ.

you need to know that soon the wheat will be seperated from the chaff. I have studied Christian history and I am very watchful of the Signs of The end and I am very sure that deeperlife will just be one of those churches that will be holy within and without.

We can overemphasize outward holiness. Jesus was modest. You need to understand we must be the Ligt of the world be most show the world how to dress how to speak how to live holy inwardly and outwardly.

@ havilla Please try to be holy in your statements to people of other faiths. you need not attack the person that serves a god but you must attack the religion and the magical books.

back to dearzi the bible is clear Holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Moses is when he left egypt and seen my his wife to be they called him an Egyptian because he dressed like one. we are called out to to holy. The true meaning of Church, French Eglise, Is a Word ECCLESIA Which means called Out.

We are caled out to be seperate from the world and we are supposed to the the Light of the world we should be point to christ our God.

Backslider:

@ havilla, Please try to be holy in your statements to people of other faiths. you need not attack the person that serves a god but you must attack the religion and the magical books.

Hi Backslider,
How are you and where have you been. I attempt to 'enlightene' and not attack other peoples religion or their gods, but in the line of doing this some people think they can get personal and attack my personality. That is called intolerance that characterise them, dont worry I am just trying to show them they dont have the monopoly of vituperations.

Joining in late in the conversation.
The deodorant bit is one I cannot stand.
Sweat stinks and gives body odor.
Every human,deeperlife or new covenant needs to wear it.
You don't want to be the talk of the work place when you are absent.

The person with the body odor never smells it.
It's the others that suffer.
Ladies and gentlemen encourage people around you to get deodorant and use it.

If your church doctrine forbids it,think of it as your own very alabaster oil or frankincense.
It is so Biblical.

babyosisi:

Joining in late in the conversation.
The deodorant bit is one I cannot stand.
Sweat stinks and gives body odor.
Every human,deeperlife or new covenant needs to wear it.
You don't want to be the talk of the work place when you are absent.

The person with the body odor never smells it.
It's the others that suffer.
Ladies and gentlemen encourage people around you to get deodorant and use it.

If your church doctrine forbids it,think of it as your own very alabaster oil or frankincense.
It is so Biblical.

@babyosisi,

lol!!!  . You've  really cracked me up with this one. I got bored of arguing about outward appearances because if I had paid heed to all the flak (_{hope I spelt that right}) I got about appearances as a new believer, then maybe, just maybe I would not have continued in my decision to accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

Just thought to see out of curiousity what the latest post was on this thread and you sure made my night. Kachifo

[quote][/quote]Youths prefer to go to some churches where "everything" is accepted.
I like Deeper life for they are the same anywhere in the world.



you are right. God bless u for that.

the funny aspect is that the ladies are not allowed to perm their hair; they are made to look all like widows while their men are suited up.

paul the apostle has already told us in the bible not to please God with braided hair.
palming your hair means nothing to me it only makes the woman look different.
palming of hair does not make u beautiful. urnatural beauty is enough for u.

mekoyo have you really read that in the scriptures?

@Babyosisi,
Do you usually "palm" your hair?. I wonder what you do to the "palm fronds"!!. I'm sure the guy turned the sciptures and apostle paul himself upside down when he was reading the sciptures.

I have been bothered by the inability of the church to retain its youthful element too. I know of many relations who left the church. In my interactiosn with them, I found out that the church is too rigid on inconsequential things. This is not to say people are leaving because they find its spiritual emphasis far too suffocating. On the contrary, many of them leave basically on simple social issues.

I was part of the church too and found out in a bid to curtail excesses, it went to another extreme. It is a major problem anong Nigerian churches. There is no moderating balance, making them slant to many extremes.

In the case of Deeper Life, its policy of marriage has to be reviewed. Pple are practically teleguided to choose. This is wrong and unbiblical. Those who marry elseweher are looked down as "unspiritual". Again, the operations of the church must be modernised. I am not saying they should compromise but just refine their worship to meet with modern realities without failing God. Afterall, God remains relevant at all times.

Any Church that sees itself as the only way Christ should be worshipped and seeks to 'protect' its members from outside influence (and by such outside influence they refer to other equally sound Churches who just happens not to follow in their dogma) is a cult.

Christ is the standard and not Church doctrine.
If you claim to love Christ whom you don't see and you don't love your neighbor whom you see,you're a hipocrite.

We will be judged by the standard of the Bible not by what our Church said.

where have u been baby? pls let them know

Havila:

@Babyosisi,
Do you usually "palm" your hair?. I wonder what you do to the "palm fronds"!!. I'm sure the guy turned the sciptures and apostle paul himself upside down when he was reading the sciptures.

LOL.
I have never palmed o my brother.

I wonder why people are still bordering on the dressing of Deeper Life Youth Sisters, If you really want to see a beautiful girl then go to deeper life and find one. The saying that the sisters looks aging as a result of their dressing mode is not really the truth. In every church you find your self, you will realize that every body will not be of the same rank because some are litterate while some are not, some may be shining while some may not, some are really Christians and some not, even the Bible says "That God shall select the Ship from the among the goat's so these goes a long way in telling you that in spite of Holiness they potrays, there are those that are empty and when you see that type you will think that every one is like that. Not withstanding some who doesn't know their right from left, who doesn't even know the standard of the church rather mixed themselfs together with the elect, just following the multitude. These calibers of people are those who make you imagine that their dressing is somehow irritating, capping it up, your imagination seems that it a law imposed upon them to dress that way hence driving them away from the church.

I want to let you know that Deeper Life church is the only church I will credit the best in doctrines, teaching, dressing, moderation and every thing you can imagine given you the best in Life.

I want to tell you that The lesson and training one goes through parterns you in a particular way, what I'm saying in a sense is that No body advice the sisters to dress in a particular way but there lessons they have learned from the virgins in the Bible has done that.

I will see you next time on this topic,

na wa o

youth run away from the truth thats the fact, their doctrines are mainly on salvation. without u been born again u can not see the kingdom of God, but we now adays youth we keep saying every thing is in the heart it doesnt matter the way we appear


pls it matters, deeper life doctrine is trying to pass accross something good, but most of us keep runing away from it,

let take this for example, a lady puting on ( yodi yo mu cloth i mean the cloth exposing all the free gift the lord as given to her ) it a sin cause it can lead to temptation, a guy or a maried man seeing that thing can fall easily.
as for me deeper life doctrine is still the best doctrine i have always respected, not like the now adays churches we need old time religion not new ones like , dont let me mention not churches that are there for fashion, and keep doing miracle, miracle is nothing without the real salvation, i prefer dieing a poor girl and follow my God to the place of Gold than denying him and go after riches.

chistiana:

youth run away from the truth thats the fact, their doctrines are mainly on salvation. without u been born again u can not see the kingdom of God, but we now adays youth we keep saying every thing is in the heart it doesnt matter the way we appear


please it matters, deeper life doctrine is trying to pass accross something good, but most of us keep runing away from it,

let take this for example, a lady puting on ( yodi yo mu cloth i mean the cloth exposing all the free gift the lord as given to her ) it a sin cause it can lead to temptation, a guy or a maried man seeing that thing can fall easily.
as for me deeper life doctrine is still the best doctrine i have always respected, not like the now adays churches we need old time religion not new ones like , don't let me mention not churches that are there for fashion, and keep doing miracle, miracle is nothing without the real salvation, i prefer dieing a poor girl and follow my God to the place of Gold than denying him and go after riches.

Honey you have no right to criticize other churches who give their members their God given right to dress well,wear jewelry and not tie turban 24 hours a day.
If that is your belief,God bless you but you are no judge.
You have the spirit of God and so do they.

^{dressing well does not mean obscene dressing,there is a difference}

Deeper life doesnt impose a particular type of dressing on ppl. They dnt force u 2 remove ur jewleries. Its a matter of personal conviction. Not everyone dat goes 2 deeperlife ties turban. they dnt tell u to tie it. u choose wut to tie

But i respect their doctrine infact its one d best cos wut they teach is d plain truth. they ve got a vry solid foundation. Dey dnt tax their church members unlike some churches (dnt wanna mention names).

babyosisi:

Honey you have no right to criticize other churches who give their members their God given right to dress well,wear jewelry and not tie turban 24 hours a day.
If that is your belief,God bless you but you are no judge.
You have the spirit of God and so do they.

^{dressing well does not mean obscene dressing,there is a difference}

Dear,

but am not criticizing, am only saying my mind, infact i didnt mention any church for God sake.

nhhhhhhhhh i see u one of the right.

well i have something to say i hope it wont make any of u angry with me

church is big bizness be it deeper life church or MFM down to house on the rock, winners, redeem and some others that hire shops and the rest
it is all about branding. branding the finish product how do u want the crowd to take u. i think some times these church leaders go thru some psychology and tend to understand the people they r leading so they come out with a market mover

for instance- MFM for the tormented that always believe that somebody is after u , most probably a cockroache or a bird must have been sent from ur village etc. u pray fall down and die have u ever asked how many are dead by now, and if so how come ur not dead some one might be praying the same for u

house on the rock and the likes- for the upward mobile bizness class youth
that tend to understand God from a deeper thinking and reasoning, should i say middle/bizness class

deeper life church - hmm its all in the branding. dont do this dont do that dont wear this dont wear that

we use to attend deeper life church when i was little, our guy the pastor wears similar suits then every day the faithful followers would come to the conclusion then that he is humble well they start dressing shabbily the day i found out the man has a wardrobe of similar pattern suits i knew something was fishy

i am of the opinion if something is bad let it be bad to all concern
we almost threw away our tv back then, thank God for my father o boy he loved news so much that he wont allow mom to have her way on that, a lot of our zonal coordinators encourage people to throw away theirs, today i look at them organizing crusades with T.v's, Projectors and even a dstv dish ! wonders shall never end. they might give excuse that it is for the gospel but like i said if these things are bad how come they use them. so lets say if they could move from the no t.v to the dstv maybe someday they would move from the shabby dressing to jean skirt-Imposicant.


its all branding every body wants to be identified by something unique. well i would give it to Kumuyi he sure knows his job he can preach very well no doubt, how come his members tend to preach like him? to sound like him when they talk? most probably would be assuming they are behaving like him. GOd has created each personunique u have got ur own style why not develop that

back in the days some crazy girl would come out and tell u that she has just been delivered from water spirit she then says lipstick, jewelries , tv, radio etc are all manufactured under water. infact she says thats what they use to monitor Christians then the church then bends their doctrines to fit in to the description. what a deceit.

let me tell u and tell u again Devil will never give u good gift he does not know how to cos thats not his nature
go read John chapter 1 verse 1 if u doubt me

, in him all things were made and nothing was made without him.

all things living and none living
GOd creates living structures he imbibes in men to create non living structures- cars, house, clothes etc
so if jean is bad then cars are bad too, if weavon and perm is bad then tell me how come u trust the thread u use in tying ur hair?


lets stop deceving ourselves and study the bible for our selves.

in him we move and have our being
God is a spirit and those that worship him must do so in truth and in spirit. if u like tie ur neck with different sizes of turtle neck and ur heart is evil i put it to u ur no where near God.


why we left deeper life parents found out a lot of fake folks that dont luv each other that much but for me and my bros we were rejoicing cos men we sure sleep in every service always boring

i have learnt over time that God has a plan for every body thats why he allows various kinds of churches with different belief systems to operate so u wont have an excuse on the last day

for instance if all churches were like deeper life most of us wont go to church and if all were like Christ embassy same applies most wont go to church
u would decide to go to where u want to go so there wont be an excuse for any one why he did not make Heaven

let me warn u- stop following men follow God