omosefeeguaibor:
I once thought about this very same issue too,
and I realized this 1-
it was God's plan to use a pharaoh. now the question became why this particular pharaoh?
then I understood that many pharaoh has passed and God didn't punish anyone of them, the way he did with the pharaoh in question.
simply because the pharaoh was an object for destruction, to manifest God's power.
then again I realized that God must have seen something with this particular pharaoh.
not to talk of what we are seeing in terms of him being stubborn.
#brooding

^^^
#1 How does one build and raise a nation, and raise it covertly, without alarming other nations already inhabiting lands this nation was given to possess?
(i.e. recall Abraham and his offspring were promised those lands now inhabited 430 years ago)
Answer - Use Egypt, a superpower of that era
#2 God passes judgement when the cup is full with foaming wine (i.e. wine been a symbolism for divine judgments)
#3 God said He will pass judgement on Egypt and vindicate the Israelites
(i.e. pay back time for the Egyptians and set free time for the Israelites)
#4 Pharaoh was a law unto himself. God hands off him, obliged him and so Pharaoh gets his just desserts

Maybe a bible dictionary or concordance would be of help because the word "hardened" as used several times in the scripture, come from different root words which thus give them different meanings.

Are you atheist? Stop doubting God. If you re bored, read psalm 23: 1-6
God bless you.

God hardened Pharaoh's mind for humans to know that He is the all in All. He also hardened Pharaoh's mind cos he is destined for doom. That does not mean that he will harden our mind on some issues for us to perish. Far from it! Having said that, God does not see us as robot whom he can control at will. That is one of the reasons he gave us brain, knowledge and all the five senses for discernment. If he had wanted to control our affairs, he wouldn't have given us all those. He wanted us to have a choice, either to follow him or not. He can admonish us but he can not decide for us. That is why the bible says something about God giving us the power of life and death but he admonished us to choose life. He did not say u must choose life. At the same time, you can decide to choose death.
What I am saying is that, God can purposely harden or make someone the fall guy so as to prove a point or make tthe scripture to be fulfilled. Look at the case of Judas Iscariot. Judas himself was not clean, neither was he righteous which gave room for his being the betrayer of our Lord and Saviour. Iscariot had d medicum of a swindler. Just like you being in the office and you want to commit atrocity like embezling, you don't just pick anybody. You look for someone that has that trait. They are all around us. They will manifest. You see them and you know you can talk to such person. Infact, if u are telling him, he would just give you more ideas. That is the case of Judas Iscariot. That is why it is good to come clean and. Be righteous.

Sparkle777:


Exactly wat I said in a previous post. God really wants to punish gmb, pls dnt take it literary. But look at the way He made gmb campaign flow, even ppl dat once hated gmb are now on his side. Bdway,whoever organised gmb socially desrves an award.
Back to topic, from all indications gmb might even win this election fairly but forget matter, the g papa no go enter aso rock. Na who wan giv am? That can be God s way of hardening his heart for destruction. My opinion pls.

Hehe
You're on point sister.Buhari the coupist will never smell Aso Rock let them hype him all they want it's all a wasted effort.

BabaGnoni:

I know what you said
You said: "Nope, on the contrary, when you step back and allow kid B to fight, you're allowing him to choose (freewill)"

I actually made two illustrations to buttress the point

Mind you, the "choice" (i.e. to fight) has already been made but you were blocking or preventing the choice (i.e. the fighting or hardening) to occur or happen
You WILL let the fight happen or harden the heart when you remove the blocking or stop the prevention

Read this. Back in the day, at boarding school, when two kids are raring to fight
usually a senior or their mates try to prevent them from having the fight
sometimes the senior or their mates relent and give in because the boys are still doing "agidi and gra-gra" that they want to fight
When the principal asks who made them fight, the answer he usually gets is, it's the senior or the mates who did
- the boys were been separated and blocked from fighting each other,
but wouldn't have any of it so the senior or their mates allowed the boys to fight
So in a way, the senior or their mates allowed made them fight, although they, the boys in actual sense were raring to fight initially/fight as well


Yes he was. Pharaoh was willing and eager to "fight".
It was the hand of God on his heart that prevented it from hardening up


Yes He did. When God removed his hand off Pharaoh's heart, it means He eventually stepped back and respected Pharaoh's free will to harden up his heart.


Yes He did. I asked Pr0ton about symbolisms and reading on Hebrews 3:15 concerning this


Yes, God allowed him to become stubborn, as he Pharaoh was keen or eager to become stubborn


OK. OK so how did God aid the hardening up


Yes.
Water, among many other representations, is also a symbol for the voice of God or word of God
Moses was made a god to Pharaoh,
but Pharaoh shut himself up and was ignoring the water, the voice of God or word of God which would soften his heart
and prevent it from hardening


It is not a trick or trip question, just simple critical thinking
What will happen, is that, the sponge will hardened up without water poured on it
What will happen, is that, Pharaoh's heart will hardened up when he shuts himself out from God's voice or the word from God
and definitely harden when God withdraws to leave Pharaoh to his antics and fate
When God did this, God in effect harden Pharaoh's heart
No more "water", so whatever "seed" is planted on Pharaoh's heart is going to fall on hard rocky ground deaf ears of a heart,
it will choke and die

With due respect sir, you are just not making sense. This analogy would have been good for other situations not this one. I dont see any correlation between two kids that would have fought without any inducement and pharaoh that needed to be haddenned for destruction.
My own conclusion is that we are Gods. And he moulds us like the potter moulds the clay, he make some to be put on fire(pots) and he makes some to be put on dinning table()

BabaGnoni:

I know what you said
You said: "Nope, on the contrary, when you step back and allow kid B to fight, you're allowing him to choose (freewill)"

I actually made two illustrations to buttress the point

Mind you, the "choice" (i.e. to fight) has already been made but you were blocking or preventing the choice (i.e. the fighting or hardening) to occur or happen
You WILL let the fight happen or harden the heart when you remove the blocking or stop the prevention

Read this. Back in the day, at boarding school, when two kids are raring to fight
usually a senior or their mates try to prevent them from having the fight
sometimes the senior or their mates relent and give in because the boys are still doing "agidi and gra-gra" that they want to fight
When the principal asks who made them fight, the answer he usually gets is, it's the senior or the mates who did
- the boys were been separated and blocked from fighting each other,
but wouldn't have any of it so the senior or their mates allowed the boys to fight
So in a way, the senior or their mates allowed made them fight, although they, the boys in actual sense were raring to fight initially/fight as well


Yes he was. Pharaoh was willing and eager to "fight".
It was the hand of God on his heart that prevented it from hardening up


Yes He did. When God removed his hand off Pharaoh's heart, it means He eventually stepped back and respected Pharaoh's free will to harden up his heart.


Yes He did. I asked Pr0ton about symbolisms and reading on Hebrews 3:15 concerning this


Yes, God allowed him to become stubborn, as he Pharaoh was keen or eager to become stubborn


OK. OK so how did God aid the hardening up


Yes.
Water, among many other representations, is also a symbol for the voice of God or word of God
Moses was made a god to Pharaoh,
but Pharaoh shut himself up and was ignoring the water, the voice of God or word of God which would soften his heart
and prevent it from hardening


It is not a trick or trip question, just simple critical thinking
What will happen, is that, the sponge will hardened up without water poured on it
What will happen, is that, Pharaoh's heart will hardened up when he shuts himself out from God's voice or the word from God
and definitely harden when God withdraws to leave Pharaoh to his antics and fate
When God did this, God in effect harden Pharaoh's heart
No more "water", so whatever "seed" is planted on Pharaoh's heart is going to fall on hard rocky ground deaf ears of a heart,
it will choke and die

With due respect sir, you are just not making sense. This analogy would have been good for other situations not this one. I dont see any correlation between two kids that would have fought without any inducement and pharaoh that needed to be haddenned for destruction.
My own conclusion is that we are Gods. And he moulds us like the potter moulds the clay, he make some to be put on fire(pots) and he makes everyone seeing this cos its very unlikely u are being hardened, i say this because those who are haddenned are usually not even aware of the possibility. You are aware. Fear God, he is in heaven doing what pleases him.

omosefeeguaibor:
I once thought about this very same issue too, and I realized this 1-it was God's plan to use a pharaoh. now the question became why this particular pharaoh? then I understood that many pharaoh has passed and God didn't punish anyone of them, the way he did with the pharaoh in question. simply because the pharaoh was an object for destruction, to manifest God's power. then again I realized that God must have seen something with this particular pharaoh. not to talk of what we are seeing in terms of him being stubborn. #brooding

this is the point exactly. God makes him stubborn so as to manifest his power in Egypt. it was God that did the hardening to fulfil a purpose.

stint:

With due respect sir, you are just not making sense. This analogy would have been good for other situations not this one. I dont see any correlation between two kids that would have fought without any inducement and pharaoh that needed to be haddenned for destruction.
My own conclusion is that we are Gods. And he moulds us like the potter moulds the clay, he make some to be put on fire(pots) and he makes everyone seeing this cos its very unlikely u are being hardened, i say this because those who are haddenned are usually not even aware of the possibility. You are aware. Fear God, he is in heaven doing what pleases him.

thank you.

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, you. Romans 9:21-23.

there are vessels prepared for destruction. to show God's wrath. take note of verse 22.

you are right.

omosefeeguaibor:
I once thought about this very same issue too, and I realized this 1-it was God's plan to use a pharaoh. now the question became why this particular pharaoh? then I understood that many pharaoh has passed and God didn't punish anyone of them, the way he did with the pharaoh in question. simply because the pharaoh was an object for destruction, to manifest God's power. then again I realized that God must have seen something with this particular pharaoh. not to talk of what we are seeing in terms of him being stubborn. #brooding

My sister, let me answer that question for you. I have heard christains use that to ...... whatever. But after i realised this particular pharoah was just born at the wrong time, i had to think again. And guess who decides when a man is born? God. See, right from the time of abraham, we new the israelite had to spend 400 years, this pharoah was born around the time that number expired. He was the closest in birth date to the expiration date if the slavery of israelite. Like i said, who chooses your birth date or how your linege is arranged? God.

Like I said, fear God. Things like this shouldnt make you loose faith. They should make you fear God. Can the clay say to the potter why do you make me this way or that way? Fear God.

I was expecting someone to say this is all old testament and it does not apply under the new covenant.

clevvermind:
thank you.

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, you. Romans 9:21-23.

there are vessels prepared for destruction. to show God's wrath. take note of verse 22.

you are right.

Yes sir! Emphasis on the word PREPARED!

you even beleived nature made you, and you were so organized as a human being, meaning that nature that made you is super organized, now who designed nature to be so organized? did nature just form by mere coincidence? noo my brother nature was designed by the creator, if you dont beleive in God them you shouldnt even beleive in natures ingenuity,because God is nature, and God is love that's why although you doubt his existence, he still keeps you alive and healthy, atheist beleive in your maker while you still can., because your very soul when you die goes back to the owner and he will ask you to give accounts of your deeds...u have a good heart, so realize the inevitable truth in time and make ur self complete...

all4naija:

God didn't made me because he doesn't exist. That is a lie you made up. All the things you listed are parts of me from nature ingenuity not from some fairy believed to reside in an unknown place within the universe or outside the universe.

I am not the image of nature my creator. It is all encompassing and has all things that exist within it as parts of it.

clevvermind:
you know we humans don't have the right to question God.



20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it , “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? Romans 9:20-21.

u re d only one who got d answer to d question.

stint:

Yes sir! Emphasis on the word PREPARED!

exactly. God have the power to fashion the clay to any vessel he wants.

dammywapes:
u re d only one who got d answer to d question.

i don't have the answer. only God can answer that question why he created me like this.

all4naija:

God didn't made me because he doesn't exist. That is a lie you made up. All the things you listed are parts of me from nature ingenuity not from some fairy believed to reside in an unknown place within the universe or outside the universe.

I am not the image of nature my creator. It is all encompassing and has all things that exist within it as parts of it.

Nature ingenuity? You talk about nature as if its a person. Do you believe in the evolution theory. You think your brain as powerful and complex as it is was made by accident?You think the earth just happened to be rightly position from the sun to support human life. What about the sun, who created it? There is just so many things that could only have been created ,by a force who is all powerfull , there is no other explanation. Google the many holes in the theory of evolution.

vfactor:



If God programmed pharoah's heart to be heard, why then did he waste Moses time sending him to pharoah, when he already knows pharoah wnt change. Why would God purnish people for what he has programmed them to do? Afterall God is love, isn't He.? So what's love in that action of his?

There's more to that scripture than meets the eye, so dnt be hasty to draw conclusions.

I'd like u to read Job 34:10-12 and Jame 1:13

Thanks for recommending that scripture passage.And that's why i said i did love to see the views of others.I wasn't concrete in my assertions.

stint:
With due respect sir, you are just not making sense. This analogy would have been good for other situations not this one. I dont see any correlation between two kids that would have fought without any inducement and pharaoh that needed to be haddenned for destruction.
My own conclusion is that we are Gods. And he moulds us like the potter moulds the clay, he make some to be put on fire(pots) and he makes everyone seeing this cos its very unlikely u are being hardened, i say this because those who are haddenned are usually not even aware of the possibility. You are aware. Fear God, he is in heaven doing what pleases him.

- EXCERPT -

oic again, as I thought you did know...

It is very similar to what happened to Pharaoh.
Both minds have already been made up
there is no point wasting time and effort on either anymore,
as they both were hellbent (i.e. both were determined to achieve at all costs what they've set their minds on to do)

The answers lie in the following verses:

But I will make Pharaoh's heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
- Exodus 7:3 NLT

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and just as the LORD had predicted to Moses, Pharaoh refused to listen.
- Exodus 9:12 NLT

²³He replied, “One of you who has just eaten from this bowl with me will betray me.
²⁴For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.
It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!”
²⁵Judas, the one who would betray him, also asked, “Rabbi, am I the one?”
And Jesus told him, “You have said it.”
- Matthew 26:23-25 NLT

When Judas had eaten the bread, Satan entered into him.
Then Jesus told him,
"Hurry and do what you're going to do."
- John 13:27 NLT

Judas like Pharaoh, can be compared with wet sponges...
Wet sponges that want to dry out the water keeping them wet, which eventually ends to getting hardened up
but are kept from drying up and hardening
by God keeping them wet through continually pouring water on the sponges
The moment God cuts off the stream of water pouring on them,
the sponges in a matter of time will dry out, harden up and be brittle

Have you ever tried pottery,
where you put the clay on the pottery wheel to make a vase
The clump of clay is always resisting you shaping it into the vase
The clump of clay will fall off the pottery wheel unfinished and damaged, the moment you let go your hands in molding it
Keep your hands on it until the end, you'll have a beautiful vase

Another analogy, is this:
Kid A and kid B, are sizing each other up, breathing into each one's face, each raring for a fight
Right at the nick of time, you step in to prevent the fight starting
but kid B, will not have none of that as adrenalin and testosterone is pumping high
Kid B is spoiling for the fight, despite all appeal or effort to prevent it
Everyone knows kid B is no match for Kid A, as kid A will beat the living day lights out of kid B
but kid B does NOT agree nor wants to know (i.e. kid B is hellbent, determined to fight at all costs, not matter what)
In effect, kid B's heart is hardening for/to fight
You harden kid B's heart, the moment you step back and allow kid B to have the fight, he's so much set his heart on

That's how Pharaoh's heart got hardened (i.e. the restraining, like in the case of kid B, was let off)
and similar happened to Judas, he was let go (i.e. as he was a lost cause, who couldn't be changed for the better)

https://www.nairaland.com/1820451/judas-iscariot-really-villain#24836472

- /EXCERPT-

Nothing to do with Pharaoh been programmed at all...
Pharaoh was a willing participant,
Pharaoh was raring to go bad.
God didn't like that, and so God was holding Pharaoh back nevertheless God eventually obliged him
and made do of the circumstances or made the best of it

PS: When God hands off one, then He allows the heart of whose He has taken His hands off to harden

https://www.nairaland.com/2112232/why-does-god-sometimes-hardens#30117553

clevvermind:
this is the point exactly.
God makes him stubborn so as to manifest his power in Egypt. it was God that did the hardening to fulfil a purpose.

clevvermind following the herd since 2000 BC

God doesnt make anyone stubborn or make anyone hard
God is not in that kind of business, even Hebrews 3:15 confirms that we harden our hearts when we refuse to listen to the voice of God
When God withdraws or removes element (e.g. water, a symbolism for his voice or word) that prevents stubbornness or hardening,
then that one has a free rein to become stubborn or harden up
Same with my clay and potter analogy
When you stop adding water and stop holding the clay when spinnning, the clay will fall of and eventually harden up
The Potter has in effect hardened the clay, as He said He would

Why should you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts?
After he had dealt severely with them, did they not send the people away, and they departed?
- 1 Samuel 6:6 ESV

As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
- Hebrews 3:15 ESV

Scripture says,
"If you hear God speak today, don't be stubborn.
Don't be stubborn like those who rebelled."
- Hebrews 3:15 GOD'S WORD® Translation

https://www.nairaland.com/2112232/why-does-god-sometimes-hardens/2#30123402

Truckpusher:
Hehe
You're on point sister.Buhari the coupist will never smell Aso Rock let them hype him all they want it's all a wasted effort.

I just pity the old man, for him to go all this far just to have his heart broken again, ouch! Its gonna be all the way home.
Anyway, it may be God s way of dealing with him for his past mischief. #buharigoandrest.

God does not erect a house where a foundation does not exist.
In other words, Pharaoh was stubborn by default, and Judas Iscariot was also greedy.
They were only being helped to express more clearly their character.

spyroet:
yes ofcourse it is possible for God to harden people"s heart to fufill an ansignment,our mind is our soul and can be manipulated and control either for good or bad that why we must pray very hard n hav faith for we not to be control by evil being or spirit.but dwell in the holy ghost fire which can lead us in right direction.

You're dead wrong, mate.

BabaGnoni:

clevvermind following the herd since 2000 BC

God doesnt make anyone stubborn or make anyone hard
God is not in that kind of business, even Hebrews 3:15 confirms that we harden our hearts when we refuse to listen to the voice of God
When God withdraws or removes element (e.g. water, a symbolism for his voice or word) that prevents stubbornness or hardening,
then that one has a free rein to become stubborn or harden up
Same with my clay and potter analogy
When you stop adding water and stop holding the clay when spinnning, the clay will fall of and eventually harden up
The Potter has in effect hardened the clay, as He said He would

Why should you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts?
After he had dealt severely with them, did they not send the people away, and they departed?
- 1 Samuel 6:6 ESV

As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
- Hebrews 3:15 ESV

Scripture says,
"If you hear God speak today, don't be stubborn.
Don't be stubborn like those who rebelled."
- Hebrews 3:15 GOD'S WORD® Translation

https://www.nairaland.com/2112232/why-does-god-sometimes-hardens/2#30123402

if Pharaoh's heart was already hardened, why then did God say, ''i will harden pharoah's heart''? it doesn't make sense then. pls throw more light to it. no name calling pls.thanks

Hiswordxray:
Yes God can harden people heart but that is not an infringement on our free will. God can only harden the heart of those who had already harden their heart. God knows how weak people are and how they could easily run away from the problem they have put themselves into.
Pharaoh had already harden his heart towards God. And God being a righteous judge wanted to punish him severely but He knows that Pharaoh will easily give in if he sees just a little of God's judgment. So God had to harden his heart so that he could remain and continue in his evil until God had completely avenge His people by giving Pharaoh the fullness of the punishment he deserves.
So God's act of hardening Pharaoh's heart is His way of keeping Pharaoh in the prison until he had sever his time. Pharaoh had to remain in his evil works for God to have enough time to completely pour out His cup of wrath on him.

i was a little bit confused but this explanation makes lot of sense

All i c is stupidd analogies..
@ Pr0ton... u deserve a medal.... .
pain me die say i no dey here since d argument started....

lolaxavier:


Then that god must be high on orijin.

Yea.. good u used a small "g"...ur own god must be high on whatever...Mine is the most HIgh GOD.HE pleases to do whatever he wants with us, because we are his creation...science doesn't have answers to all these, because science is/ and will continue to limited...

piagetskinner:

Yea.. good u used a small "g"...ur own god must be high on whatever...Mine is the most HIgh GOD. HE pleases to do whatever he wants with us, because we are his creation...science doesn't have answers to all these, because science is/ and will continue to limited...

Bro.. You are not safe.

Pr0ton:


Bro.. You are not safe.

If for believing in God. yes, I'd prefer not to be safe, than to acquaint myself with the limited 'knowledge' that men like u claim to have#have a nice day mr man

piagetskinner:

If for believing in God. yes, I'd prefer not to be safe, than to acquaint myself with the limited 'knowledge' that men like u claim to have#have a nice day mr man

Lame.

Hiswordxray:
Yes God can harden people heart but that is not an infringement on our free will. God can only harden the heart of those who had already harden their heart. God knows how weak people are and how they could easily run away from the problem they have put themselves into.
Pharaoh had already harden his heart towards God. And God being a righteous judge wanted to punish him severely but He knows that Pharaoh will easily give in if he sees just a little of God's judgment. So God had to harden his heart so that he could remain and continue in his evil until God had completely avenge His people by giving Pharaoh the fullness of the punishment he deserves.
So God's act of hardening Pharaoh's heart is His way of keeping Pharaoh in the prison until he had sever his time. Pharaoh had to remain in his evil works for God to have enough time to completely pour out His cup of wrath on him.

But God said he was created for that purpose-to show the people of israelites he was a powerful God and they should build their in him.For this purpose,poor judas wouldn't have been able to escape fate.

Some creatures are from a bad stock, not really because God didn't create them, but because they chose to deliberately flout the orders of God most high! When God wants to deal with such people, he hardens their heart so that they cannot repent, because he intends to destroy them!