DoctorAlien:


LOL.

I exist today because GOD ordained it to be. It is of His mercies that I'm not consumed.

Babies die in the womb, and so we see that mating doesn't guarantee existence.

Your premise is quite faulty. Those babies who died in the womb, were they ordained to die?

Jacksonville:


My God is ominipresence.. He's everywhere.

Except it can't be seen. By the way, if god is everywhere, where was he when Lucifer was tempting Eve?

If you put your heart down and humble thy self by his throne of grace. He will reveal himself to you in mysterious ways.

You mean unless I throw reason and evidence away and rely on blind faith. No thank you

Unless you operate in the prophetic you can't see his glory, neither will/can you his side.

Well, I do not operate in the prophetic imaginary like you

That's all i can say..

You haven't said much to resemble a photo

butterfly88:
still sailing in this your ship made of clay...

If I say something will either be good or bad that mean I'm uncertain about the outcome but have to take the "risk"
that's being human

this logic will only old true for God if he also is imperfect...so is God imperfect?

Let's clarify it: The only risk GOD took was creating a powerful being with freewill--the power to decide whether to obey Him or to rebel against Him.

You get it?

Jacksonville:



Fool for the devil .. How can i worship a powerless god?

There's only one GOD that is true and most powerful... He is the giver of life.. He raises the poor from the dust and mingle him amongst princes to dine in riches..

The bolded is quite poetic. Did you compose it or Ezekiel told you this?
Anyway, it makes sense, ESPECIALLY "MIGNLING AMONGST PRINCES"

Guy wake up, the word MINGLE is not good for this context anymore. AMONGST archaic...
PRINCES?? funny, why can't you just say PRESIDENTS
ANYWAY, THE LIGHT OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH TO YOU SOMEDAY. HOLD ON TO YAHWEH(satan) YOUR god TILL THEN. A TIME WILL COME WHEN YOU WILL SEE THE TRUTH.

I AM OTEM...

DoctorAlien:


Wrong. Risk is not a product. You don't take risk because you don't know the outcome. You take risk because you hope everything works out fine even though it could go wrong.

By that definition, people who know very well that children do turn into criminals should stop giving birth to avoid producing criminals.

LOL. Nice discussing with you, anyway.

lol...so God was hoping that Satan with turn out well?

lol bro....where is the knowledge and certitude then?

and again that's not the logic..omg..how many time

well it's not nice discussing with you

lol..just kidding...have fun

lordnicklaus:
The perception of a powerful force responsible for the expanse and its workings is one that has always been of debate amongst people of different philosophical views. Whether Theist, Atheist, Agnostic, Deist, Pantheist or Spinozist, we all know that the universe was set in motion by a force. A powerful, absolute and infinitely complex force which is not fully grasped by most people. Some view this force as a powerful, infinite, animate and super-intelligent being who still has control of the created universe. Others view this force as inanimate and in no way intelligent and infinite but see it as a transient and chaotic phenomenon which could one day implode the universe into a singularity devoid of living matter. Others hold that such universal uphold or cause can never be entirely grasped and that trying to understand the entirety of its working is futile. Others see it as an intelligent uncontrolling being who makes no moral law neither is He concerned about any humanitary affair. The last set view it as being within us and around us (i.e nature).

Now, are the perceptions of the first and third sets of people based on mere thoughts or actual evidence? If you see them as mere thinking, then what fact or emblem of criticism vehicles you to conclude in such manner?

The discussion is open to all and sundry.....

Cc raphieMontella johnydon22 winner01 hahn Seun JsoE weah96 hopefulLandlord Lennycool ValentineMary kingebukasblog kingebukanaija ifenes HardMirror shadeyinka blueAgent mabea kilo4sure analice107 Pidggin AlphaDex dorox

The question of the cause of the physical universe will be discussed as long as we have humans here on earth. This is simply because according to the laws of physics we can deduce that,

1. Time started at the instant of the big bang
2. Something initiated the big bang
3. Whatever initiated the big bang does not obey the physical laws.

So, if something initiated the big bang, that thing must have existed before the time t=0

Now, this is where we polarize:

Theists say this force is a conscious being who is a spirit(of course a spirit does not obey neither is it subject to the physical laws)

Atheists insist that it is just another force like the physical laws only that in time, we shall understand, comprehend and include this laws as part of the laws of physics.

The Atheist require the Theists to provide a Physical proof (of course which is impossible because the physical laws does not interact with spirits)

Unfortunately, Atheists cannot describe the laws of physics operating before the big bang.

Then, the real aguement begins, can consciousness come out of nothing?

Theists insist that Gods origin cannot be known
Atheists too cannot explain the origin of the forces of operation before the big bang.

As far as Atheism is concerned, consciousness is the grey matter of the Brain at work.
Theists insist that the Brain may be the "computer CPU" while the Soul is the "operating system and application softwares" that runs the CPU(brain). Theist insist that the soul can live out of the body and just like softwares are intangible component of the body.

The question then wraps around again:
Atheists say show us physical proof of the afterlife and of course there is no physical proof for the soul is not physical. The soul of man is in the form of God who is a spirit.

Theists say, "order" cannot come out of chaos!
Atheists see everything as random chance and therefore no real order.

But the laws of physics seems stable, chemical reaction can be predicted, atoms have order, living organisms have order etc.which is true.

However, when you look at the expanse of space, at the galactic level, there seems to be no order.

In summary, how you look determines what you see!
You see exactly what you hope to see!

There are still more to say, but space cannot allow.
BUT
Whatever you choose to see can never change the Real TRUTH and REALITY of the cause of existence.

The final answer will be marked by The Examiner at the Point of our Death. Whatever happens,
Theists loose NOTHING if Atheist are RIGHT but
Atheists loose EVERYTHING if Theists are RIGHT.

Atheists know this and they have calculated the cost and consoled themselves
"At least, they will not be the only ones in Hell. They will have many fellow companions"

My sincere worry for them is, if Hell was to have categories, would they not find themselves in the worst part of it?

DoctorAlien:


Let's clarify it: The only risk GOD took was creating a powerful being with freewill--the power to decide whether to obey Him or to rebel against Him.

You get it?

I don't....he took a risk and was hoping for a good outcome..but he also knew before hand that no good will come out of this risk and hope

how contradicting

Hmmm...... GOD IS GOD.... NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT

GOD is both Good and Evil....... All things are created by God....... For him and him alone

Believe that......

butterfly88:
lol...so God was hoping that Satan with turn out well?

lol bro....where is the knowledge and certitude then?

and again that's not the logic..omg..how many time

well it's not nice discussing with you

lol..just kidding...have fun

Like I've stated, the only risk GOD took was in creating Satan, a being with freewill. Freewill!

It's a pity Satan chose to rebel.

see one attribute about you atheists is that you have a bigotry attitude towards facts.

My GOD Is a just GOD, he won't force you to worship him. But the consequences of your action or decision will justify the means..

He gave Adam and eve a strict warning, but they rather disobeyed.

He wasn't suppose to come to his rescue, was he

Quit justifying your unbelief. The fact is My GOD is omnipresent.

Don't despise the prophetic, through the prophetic, God's voice is heard and he exposes demonic conspiracies , the lost is saved and his plans for them are revealed

I'll leave you to your faith. I can't do more than preach God's word to you. It's left for you to acknowledge and receive it or you reject it. But the end justifies the means!

Shalom!..

hahn:


Except it can't be seen. By the way, if god is everywhere, where was he when Lucifer was tempting Eve?
You mean unless I throw reason and evidence away and rely on blind faith. No thank you

Well, I do not operate in the prophetic imaginary like you

You haven't said much to resemble a photo

Nothing comes into existence without God knowledge.....
God created Both Good and Evil.......
N he is Good to those who Obey him and Evil to those who do not.........
Nothing more than that

Jacksonville:
see one attribute about you atheists is that you have a bigotry attitude towards facts.

My GOD Is a just GOD, he won't force you to worship him. But the consequences of your action or decision will justify the means..

He gave Adam and eve a strict warning, but they rather disobeyed.

He wasn't suppose to come to his rescue, was he

Quit justifying your unbelief. The fact is My GOD is omnipresent.

Don't despise the prophetic, through the prophetic, God's voice is heard and he exposes demonic conspiracies , the lost is saved and his plans for them are revealed

I'll leave you to your faith. I can't do more than preach God's word to you. It's left for you to acknowledge and receive it or you reject it. But the end justifies the means!

Shalom!..

You will still go to hell because your belief in Jesus and Jehovah qualify you for Allah's hell.

There is no escaping it.

Shalom

otemanuduno:
The bolded is quite poetic. Did you compose it or Ezekiel told you this?
Anyway, it makes sense, ESPECIALLY "MIGNLING AMONGST PRINCES"

Guy wake up, the word MINGLE is not good for this context anymore. AMONGST archaic...
PRINCES?? funny, why can't you just say PRESIDENTS
ANYWAY, THE LIGHT OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH TO YOU SOMEDAY. HOLD ON TO YAHWEH(satan) YOUR god TILL THEN. A TIME WILL COME WHEN YOU WILL SEE THE TRUTH.

I AM OTEM...

You can keep calling God almighty satan because that's the least you can do. Your power is limited to this forum as far as the kingdom of GOD is concerned.

But let me tell you this.. A day will come, your eyes will be opened, you will be free from demonic oppression and you will run to the GOD's throne of mercy and acknowledge GOD for saving you and ask for mercy. You will wish you never existed, you will feel so dirty and unclean, you will even ask death to take you.

Devil is a liar!. My brother Rejoice, because your redemption is on it's way.

God is still a merciful God.

butterfly88:
I don't....he took a risk and was hoping for a good outcome..but he also knew before hand that no good will come out of this risk and hope

how contradicting

GOD foresaw a creation marred by disaster just because of rebellion against Him. He made a provision through which creation would be salvaged should such thing happen. No provision for salvation, however, was made for the person through whom rebellion would come. Satan cannot be forgiven, neither can he be saved. He is doomed and destined for destruction and that is it. Why? Because He chose to introduce sin into GOD's perfect creation.

Now, GOD made a provision for man, whom Satan deceived, to be saved.

GOD made Satan a powerful and beautiful angel with the choice of obeying GOD or disobeying Him and sowing the seeds of discord between GOD and His creation.

Sadly, he chose the latter and we're here today. However, it will not always be like this.

hahn:


You will still go to hell because your belief in Jesus and Jehovah qualify you for Allah's hell.

There is no escaping it.

Shalom

Hahaha.. When i have a GOD that speaks and sees through me!.

A God that created me for his will. I belong to GOD and not allah.

Let what belongs to ceasar be given to him and what belongs to the God almighty be given to him.

I know where i'm heading to because i'm filled with visions. I tell you young man, it's better for a man to know his purpose in life than for him not to have a clue of where he's heading to.

Goodluck with your faith.

Jacksonville:


Hahaha.. When i have a GOD that speaks and sees through me!.

Lol. Of course your god speaks through you. Just as it speaks to everyone of other religions. And you still do not have any proof it exists.

A God that created me for his will. I belong to GOD and not allah.

Let what belongs to ceasar begin to him and what belongs to the God almighty be given to him.

I know where i'm heading to because i'm filled with visions. I tell you young man, it's better for a man to know his purpose in life than for him not to have a clue of where he's heading to.

Do not confuse illusion/delusion with vision. Your purpose is dictated to you from the pages of a book written over 2,000 years ago of which it's stories are largely plagiarized and contradictory and you think you are on a path?

Goodluck with your faith.

I wish I could wish you luck with your delusion but the point you are now is hopeless as you have willfully submitted yourself to a subject you are totally ignorant of

Jacksonville:
see one attribute about you atheists is that you have a bigotry attitude towards facts.

My GOD Is a just GOD, he won't force you to worship him. But the consequences of your action or decision will justify the means..

He gave Adam and eve a strict warning, but they rather disobeyed.

He wasn't suppose to come to his rescue, was he

Quit justifying your unbelief. The fact is My GOD is omnipresent.

Don't despise the prophetic, through the prophetic, God's voice is heard and he exposes demonic conspiracies , the lost is saved and his plans for them are revealed

I'll leave you to your faith. I can't do more than preach God's word to you. It's left for you to acknowledge and receive it or you reject it. But the end justifies the means!

Shalom!..

And by end you mean a torture chamber filled with disobedient souls right? How does invoking a realm of fiery torture justify the gospel of truth and Christ? Such abhorrent teaching only shows a God with egoistic inferior complex far from the omni-benevolent being He is taken to be. And what would also be your stand point to His beneficence and benevolence if He has set aside a confine to subject souls to unending perdition?

hahn:


Lol. Of course your god speaks through you. Just as it speaks to everyone of other religions. And you still do not have any proof it exists.



Do not confuse illusion/delusion with vision. Your purpose is dictated to you from the pages of a book written over 2,000 years ago of which it's stories are largely plagiarized and contradictory and you think you are on a path?



I wish I could wish you luck with your delusion but the point you are now is hopeless as you have willfully submitted yourself to a subject you are totally ignorant of

At least i can see and hear something. So i'm motivated and vision-filled. But you are filled with disbelief and it's your delusion, not mine.

You better keep to your lane if you lack belief in my GOD. Let others who are willing to embrace the gospel come forth, so he can reveal himself to them.

I know who i am and that gives me great JOY because the LORD GOD almighty has made it so before he formed me in my mother's womb.

lordnicklaus:


And by end you mean a torture chamber filled with disobedient souls right? How does invoking a realm of fiery torture justify the gospel of truth and Christ? Such abhorrent teaching only shows a God with egoistic inferior complex far from the omni-benevolent being He is taken to be. And what would also be your stand point to His beneficence and benevolence if He has set aside a confine to subject souls to unending perdition?

I'm glad you admitted they were disobedient.

lordnicklaus:


And by end you mean a torture chamber filled with disobedient souls right? How does invoking a realm of fiery torture justify the gospel of truth and Christ? Such abhorrent teaching only shows a God with egoistic inferior complex far from the omni-benevolent being He is taken to be. And what would also be your stand point to His beneficence and benevolence if He has set aside a confine to subject souls to unending perdition?

Who's this one

Your method of familiarizing is unacceptable.

Try somewhere else biko!

DoctorAlien:


I'm glad you admitted they were disobedient.

I admit they were disobedient but how does it show the omni-benevolence of God or account for Him being perfect? I am not an atheist, so do not quote me wrong!

Jacksonville:


Who's this one

Your method of familiarizing is unacceptable.

Try somewhere else biko!

you have definitely quoted me wrong. You haven't made a sensible premise since. I have only seen your expressions tainted with threats. I never vouched for such hoolabaloos. It seems the purpose of this thread has been defeated from the onset!

lordnicklaus:


I admit they were disobedient but how does it show the omni-benevolence of God or account for Him being perfect? I am not an atheist, so do not quote me wrong!

That GOD is omni-benevolent does not mean He should tolerate and entertain sin. He is a holy GOD, and He will rid His creation of sin and sinners. If one continues in sin and rebellion and despises the salvation which GOD has provided in Jesus Christ, that person is assigning himself to destruction.

lordnicklaus:


you have definitely quoted me wrong. You haven't made a sensible premise since. I have only seen your expressions tainted with threats. I never vouched for such hoolabaloos. It seems the purpose of this thread has been defeated from the onset!

whatever! I'm not concerned or bothered about your opinion.

Just keep to your lane and stop constituting a nuisance. You want to show yourself and how pointless you are, but i won't give room for that.

Now crawl back to thy cave whence you came...

Jacksonville:


whatever! I'm not concerned or bothered about your opinion.

Just keep to your lane and stop constituting a nuisance. You want to show yourself and how pointless you are, but i won't give room for that.

Now crawl back to thy cave whence you came...

Wow, this has definitely shown how morally inclined you are. And for the record I am a Christian and not an atheist if you considered me one and FYI I am the creator of this thread.
So, resorting to threats and blowing your horn has in no way been of encouraging premise but has pushed atheists further from believing in God.

This is damn wrong sire...
Pls Stop this rebutted pascal wager

shadeyinka:


Theists insist that the Brain may be the "computer CPU" while the Soul is the "operating system and application softwares" that runs the CPU(brain). Theist insist that the soul can live out of the body and just like softwares are intangible component of the body.

can a software function and carry out its err'tin without the cpu?

The question then wraps around again:
Atheists say show us physical proof of the afterlife and of course there is no physical proof for the soul is not physical. The soul of man is in the form of God who is a spirit.

what happens to other conscious animals?
Heaven and hell too?
Foetuses and babies nko?
They become adults?

Theists say, "order" cannot come out of chaos!
Atheists see everything as random chance and therefore no real order.

even your fertilization is ''chance''
or does your god make intersex babies?

Theists loose NOTHING if Atheist are RIGHT but
Atheists loose EVERYTHING if Theists are RIGHT.

this is a bloody lie...
Allah?
The battle of reincarnation?
This is just a few o

Atheists know this and they have calculated the cost and consoled themselves
"At least, they will not be the only ones in Hell. They will have many fellow companions"

My sincere worry for them is, if Hell was to have categories, would they not find themselves in the worst part of it?

same can be said for allah..
Theists are heartless..how can be comfortable in heaven when people are supposedly burning eternally in hell?
A child who lost his parents to hell..will it be accorded a new parent?(and be comfy?)
will parents who lost their child to hell be given permission to make new ones?
That a serial killer can at the last minute recite some words and gain heaven?
While a budhist who forgave,,treated people well etc will gain hell for not reciting some mumbo jumbo?
The doctrine of hell is an insult to human intellect...and i know;you shadeyinka,is better than this..

Jacksonville:

He gave Adam and eve a strict warning, but they rather disobeyed.
.

i have a simple question for you...
How did adam and eve know that eating the fruit(disobeying god) was a ''sin''?
If they didnt have a standard for sin unless they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad??
(they didnt know they were unclad)

raphieMontella:
This is damn wrong sire...
Pls Stop this rebutted pascal wager
can a software function and carry out its err'tin without the cpu?

what happens to other conscious animals?
Heaven and hell too?
Foetuses and babies nko?
They become adults?

even your fertilization is ''chance''
or does your god make intersex babies?


this is a bloody lie...
Allah?
The battle of reincarnation?
This is just a few o

same can be said for allah..
Theists are heartless..how can be comfortable in heaven when people are supposedly burning eternally in hell?
A child who lost his parents to hell..will it be accorded a new parent?(and be comfy?)
will parents who lost their child to hell be given permission to make new ones?
That a serial killer can at the last minute recite some words and gain heaven?
While a budhist who forgave,,treated people well etc will gain hell for not reciting some mumbo jumbo?
The doctrine of hell is an insult to human intellect...and i know;you shadeyinka,is better than this..

My problem with you is that you see every Theist-Atheist discussion must end in aguement.

I made statements valid for both Atheists and Theists. Statements of For and Against.

Learn my bro, not everything has to be argued about!

shadeyinka:


The question of the cause of the physical universe will be discussed as long as we have humans here on earth. This is simply because according to the laws of physics we can deduce that,

1. Time started at the instant of the big bang
2. Something initiated the big bang
3. Whatever initiated the big bang does not obey the physical laws.

So, if something initiated the big bang, that thing must have existed before the time t=0

Now, this is where we polarize:

Theists say this force is a conscious being who is a spirit(of course a spirit does not obey neither is it subject to the physical laws)

Atheists insist that it is just another force like the physical laws only that in time, we shall understand, comprehend and include this laws as part of the laws of physics.

The Atheist require the Theists to provide a Physical proof (of course which is impossible because the physical laws does not interact with spirits)

Unfortunately, Atheists cannot describe the laws of physics operating before the big bang.

Then, the real aguement begins, can consciousness come out of nothing?

Theists insist that Gods origin cannot be known
Atheists too cannot explain the origin of the forces of operation before the big bang.

As far as Atheism is concerned, consciousness is the grey matter of the Brain at work.
Theists insist that the Brain may be the "computer CPU" while the Soul is the "operating system and application softwares" that runs the CPU(brain). Theist insist that the soul can live out of the body and just like softwares are intangible component of the body.

The question then wraps around again:
Atheists say show us physical proof of the afterlife and of course there is no physical proof for the soul is not physical. The soul of man is in the form of God who is a spirit.

Theists say, "order" cannot come out of chaos!
Atheists see everything as random chance and therefore no real order.

But the laws of physics seems stable, chemical reaction can be predicted, atoms have order, living organisms have order etc.which is true.

However, when you look at the expanse of space, at the galactic level, there seems to be no order.

In summary, how you look determines what you see!
You see exactly what you hope to see!

There are still more to say, but space cannot allow.
BUT
Whatever you choose to see can never change the Real TRUTH and REALITY of the cause of existence.

The final answer will be marked by The Examiner at the Point of our Death. Whatever happens,
Theists loose NOTHING if Atheist are RIGHT but
Atheists loose EVERYTHING if Theists are RIGHT.

Atheists know this and they have calculated the cost and consoled themselves
"At least, they will not be the only ones in Hell. They will have many fellow companions"

My sincere worry for them is, if Hell was to have categories, would they not find themselves in the worst part of it?

Well spoken.

shadeyinka:


My problem with you is that you see every Theist-Atheist discussion must end in aguement.

I made statements valid for both Atheists and Theists. Statements of For and Against.

Learn my bro, not everything has to be argued about!

your statements about atheism are incorrect -order and death..both incorrect sire...
Btw atheism is simply disbelief..thats ''modern science''..
And that pascal wager tin?..its wrong...
Cheers bro..

raphieMontella:

your statements about atheism are incorrect -order and death..both incorrect sire...
Btw atheism is simply disbelief..thats ''modern science''..
And that pascal wager tin?..its wrong...
Cheers bro..

I was only re-echoing what I have heard and learnt from atheists.

The argument for order is that
"does the universe look planned?"
Another aguement of atheists is the vast emptiness and the seemingly useless planets doing nothing in our galaxy

On death:
Atheists believe that the brain is the center of consciousness and that when a person dies, his consciousness dies with him.

Pascal Wager:
I didn't discuss that.
I only stated a logical fact: if Atheists are right indeed theist(generally speaking) theists have nothing to loose because there would not be any form of consciousness.

However, the converse has a gross implication that ALL atheists have a case to answer.

Its just logics

lordnicklaus:

So, I have seen your premise and there are lots of logic driven by facts in what you posted up there. All of what you vouched for have only occured in spacetime. Stars with large masses than our sun have gone supernova and imploded into infinite singularities due to a compression of matter. But our sun is not a large enough star to become a blackhole and would only become a white dwarf should it go supernova, so wouldn't such facet account for the fact that our sphere in the universe was specially made? Your thoughts please......

donnffd raphieMontella ifenes weah96.. Please what are your views on this?

I dont think because our sun wouldn't collapse into a black hole that means it was specially created, there are lots of stars that would die without collapsing into a balckhole, we are not that unique.