butterfly88:
1st if God is all knowing he should have know that Satan will rebel and cause unrepairable damages..then he shouldn't have created Satan in the 1st instant

2nd -you said pride in Satan,who created pride?

3rd- God never created sin,who did? is there another creator other than god?

4th- so who should we blame? Satan or his creator?

It should be noted that Satan once stood in GOD's presence, next in rank only to Jesus Christ. He was created a covering cherub and not "Satan". And when Satan is finally destroyed, GOD will shed tears for that beautiful creature.

GOD is not the origin of pride. GOD is not proud. Satan allowed his beauty and excellence to deceive him into thinking he could usurp GOD's throne and receive worship just like GOD.

Sin is disobedience to GOD and so you cannot say GOD created disobedience to himself.

Satan is to blame. He thought that by the virtue of his exalted position, He could exercise the prerogatives of GOD.

butterfly88:
Owk assuming I'm a scientist I want to create something, and I knew before hand that my invention will cause a lot of trouble for the future generations,but I did invent it nevertheless

now if such a thing kills say million who should blamed? the invention or the inventor?

The people that created phones and computers never planned for them to be used in scamming people and duping people online, did they? However, should they not have created phones and laptops? The beautiful technology they invented has been employed in committing crime.

GOD made all things perfect to give glory to Himself. But an Enemy brought in rebellion and defaced creation. What GOD created to give glory to Himself as the Creator was now an agent of rebellion against the Creator, contrary to His plan.

GOD created us to be in a loving and happy relationship with himself. And that is how all things will be when GOD finally ends this Great Controversy.

DoctorAlien:


The people that created phones and computers never planned for them to be used in scamming people and duping people online, did they? However, should they not have created phones and laptops? The beautiful technology they invented has been employed in committing crime.

GOD made all things perfect to give glory to Himself. But an Enemy brought in rebellion and defaced creation. What GOD created to give glory to Himself as the Creator was now an agent of rebellion against the Creator, contrary to His plan.

GOD created us to be in a loving and happy relationship with himself. And that is how all things will be when GOD finally ends this Great Controversy.

owk..using your above logic,, there is imperfection in God's creation in the same way as there are mistakes in the creation of the computer?

DoctorAlien:


It should be noted that Satan once stood in GOD's presence, next in rank only to Jesus Christ. He was created a covering cherub and not "Satan". And when Satan is finally destroyed, GOD will shed tears for that beautiful creature.

GOD is not the origin of pride. GOD is not proud. Satan allowed his beauty and excellence to deceive him into thinking he could usurp GOD's throne and receive worship just like GOD.

Sin is disobedience to GOD and so you cannot say GOD created disobedience to himself.

Satan is to blame. He thought that by the virtue of his exalted position, He could exercise the prerogatives of GOD.

is God unaware of what Satan will become before he became what he became?

butterfly88:
owk..using your above logic,, there is imperfection in God's creation in the same way as there are mistakes in the creation of the computer?

LOL.

There is no mistake in the computer. The computer is a beautiful device which excellently eases the stress of work. And even if such a mistake exists in the computer, that is not the reason why the computer has been turned into a tool for committing crime. There is no inherent "mistake" in the computer. It was suited perfectly for office work. However, enemies of progress have found another use for it.

GOD made creation and declared it perfect. Man's state of perfection depended, however, on his obedience to GOD. The enemy, through the means of guile and subtlety, found a way to lead man into rebellion against GOD.

Good news, however, is that GOD is actively working to restore man to perfection--this time without any chance of sinning again.

lordnicklaus:
The perception of a powerful force responsible for the expanse and its workings is one that has always been of debate amongst people of different philosophical views. Whether Theist, Atheist, Agnostic, Deist, Pantheist or Spinozist, we all know that the universe was set in motion by a force. A powerful, absolute and infinitely complex force which is not fully grasped by most people. Some view this force as a powerful, infinite, animate and super-intelligent being who still has control of the created universe. Others view this force as inanimate and in no way intelligent and infinite but see it as a transient and chaotic phenomenon which could one day implode the universe into a singularity devoid of living matter. Others hold that such universal uphold or cause can never be entirely grasped and that trying to understand the entirety of its working is futile. Others see it as an intelligent uncontrolling being who makes no moral law neither is He concerned about any humanitary affair. The last set view it as being within us and around us (i.e nature).

Now, are the perceptions of the first and third sets of people based on mere thoughts or actual evidence? If you see them as mere thinking, then what fact or emblem of criticism vehicles you to conclude in such manner?

The discussion is open to all and sundry.....

Cc raphieMontella johnydon22 winner01 hahn Seun JsoE weah96 hopefulLandlord Lennycool ValentineMary kingebukasblog kingebukanaija ifenes HardMirror shadeyinka blueAgent mabea kilo4sure analice107 Pidggin AlphaDex dorox

As a christian, it is my belief that the universe and all that is contained within did not come about as the result of some random confluence of events, but as a result of the creative works of God whose power, knowledge and wisdom is infinite and beyond human comprehension.
This view does not contradict nor does it discourage one from trying to develop an understanding of the universe.
Great contribution by the majority of people so far to this interesting topic, I will try to explain my belief later and aswer questions pertaining to my belief while asking questions of others in return.

DoctorAlien:

Bro, I said whether you like it or not, GOD created you.

sorry o .but your parents mated to make you...or you wouldnt exist

It's just like asking your mother for an evidence that she gave birth to you.

this is not logical.

butterfly88:
is God unaware of what Satan will become before he became what he became?

He was aware of it. You see, GOD actually took a very big risk in creating Lucifer- a very beautiful, mighty and powerful angel next in rank in all ramifications only to Himself. On top of it all, this being was not created a robot but was created with freewill: he could actually choose to serve and remain loyal to His Creator. He could also choose to rebel. GOD knew that Satan choosing to rebel and deceiving the rest of creation into rebellion would cost Him a lot--even His own life. When the first seeds of pride began germinating in Lucifer's heart, GOD knew a very big problem was imminent.

GOD created Satan with freewill. He chose to rebel.

raphieMontella:

sorry o
.but your parents mated to make you...or you wouldnt exist

this is not logical.

LOL.

I exist today because GOD ordained it to be. It is of His mercies that I'm not consumed.

Babies die in the womb, and so we see that mating doesn't guarantee existence.

DoctorAlien:


LOL.

There is no mistake in the computer. The computer is a beautiful device which excellently eases the stress of work. And even if such a mistake exists in the computer, that is not the reason why the computer has been turned into a tool for committing crime. There is no inherent "mistake" in the computer. It was suited perfectly for office work. However, enemies of progress have found another use for it.

GOD made creation and declared it perfect. Man's state of perfection depended, however, on his obedience to GOD. The enemy, through the means of guile and subtlety, found a way to lead man into rebellion against GOD.

Good news, however, is that GOD is actively working to restore man to perfection--this time without any chance of sinning again.

lol...I still find it hard to comprehend you sir...so God first created man hand his creation was flawed by what God didn't create and wasn't "aware" of

taking the computer for instance it is a beautiful work like you acclaimed but had some loop holes quick enable all kinds of cybercrimes...and mind you the computer underwent several modifications...so as to get a so called " perfect computer" which as far as I know doesn't exist

so is this the same process God is using in his creation of a perfect man and a perfect world?

.

DoctorAlien:


He was aware of it. You see, GOD actually took a very big risk in creating Lucifer- a very beautiful, mighty and powerful angel next in rank in all ramifications only to Himself. On top of it all, this being was not created a robot but was created with freewill: he could actually choose to serve and remain loyal to His Creator. He could also choose to rebel. GOD knew that Satan choosing to rebel and deceiving the rest of creation into rebellion would cost Him a lot--even His own life. When the first seeds of pride began germinating in Lucifer's heart, GOD knew a very big problem was imminent.

GOD created Satan with freewill. He chose to rebel.

God taking risk implies that He is not omniscient. I hope you know.

DoctorAlien:


He was aware of it. You see, GOD actually took a very big risk in creating Lucifer- a very beautiful, mighty and powerful angel next in rank in all ramifications only to Himself. On top of it all, this being was not created a robot but was created with freewill: he could actually choose to serve and remain loyal to His Creator. He could also choose to rebel. GOD knew that Satan choosing to rebel and deceiving the rest of creation into rebellion would cost Him a lot--even His own life. When the first seeds of pride began germinating in Lucifer's heart, GOD knew a very big problem was imminent.

GOD created Satan with freewill. He chose to rebel.

lol..god took a big risk?...I risk not a product of uncertainty and imperfect knowledge

so Satan is next in rank to God? so God is not even all powerful and Satan to can be ranked second in command...

and all these makes sense to you?

butterfly88:
lol...I still find it hard to comprehend you sir...so God first created man hand his creation was flawed by what God didn't create and wasn't "aware" of

taking the computer for instance it is a beautiful work like you acclaimed but had some loop holes quick enable all kinds of cybercrimes...and mind you the computer underwent several modifications...so as to get a so called " perfect computer" which as far as I know doesn't exist

so is this the same process God is using in his creation of a perfect man and a perfect world?

GOD created Lucifer before He created man. I only know as much as the Scriptures reveal, but Satan was cast out from Heaven even before man was created. He then proceeded to deceive man.

Now, the computer can be used to send an appointment letter over the internet. The computer can also be used to send a letter of threat over the internet. Is this the fault of the computer or the fault of the people created technology?

dorox:


God taking risk implies that He is not omniscient. I hope you know.

The perfect definition of risk-taking is creating something that has a possibility to turn against you.

DoctorAlien:


LOL.

I exist today because GOD ordained it to be. It is of His mercies that I'm not consumed.

Babies die in the womb, and so we see that mating doesn't guarantee existence.

did god kill the babies who die in wombs?(naturally)

what about intersex babies?
Did god make them?

butterfly88:
lol..god took a big risk?...I risk not a product of uncertainty and imperfect knowledge

so Satan is next in rank to God? so God is not even all powerful and Satan to can be ranked second in command...

and all these makes sense to you?

GOD created Lucifer to glorify Himself. However, GOD didn't create him a robot. If He did, there wouldn't have been any possibility for Lucifer to disobey GOD. And so GOD creating Lucifer with freewill to choose either obedience or rebellion was a risk. Satan choosing to disobey would endanger creation. And he did. GOD however showed that He is wise by providing for the redemption of creation.

Yes. A careful study of the Bible reveals that Satan is much more powerful than man can conceive. Very powerful.

@ Hahn, Almighty God created the universe with a Big Bang. And he made some beings to exist also. These beings are the gods such as yahweh, Eartum, Odin, Allah etc. These beings made other beings which are the homos. Any of these gods who made the homos are the gods of the homos they made, except if an homo is not aware of that, he just worships another god. Just like Jacksonville, a worshipper of yahweh a foreign god, instead of using his own brain to achieve success. Or worst still, worshipping the god of his land.

Also, humans like me and you can become gods on those who adore and idolises us. BUT THAT IS THE THING IN LIFE WHICH I HATE MOST. IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR IMPROVEMENT OF LIFE.

DoctorAlien:


GOD created Lucifer before He created man. I only know as much as the Scriptures reveal, but Satan was cast out from Heaven even before man was created. He then proceeded to deceive man.

Now, the computer can be used to send an appointment letter over the internet. The computer can also be used to send a letter of threat over the internet. Is this the fault of the computer or the fault of the people created technology?

don't try to twist the logic I made with the computer the loopholes existed cause of the imperfection of the scientist but on a nutshell the computer is a wonderful device

so now if the devil is the computer and God the scientist...now thus is another type of computer I purely dangerous computer ...now is the scientist in this case God imperfect for creating a totally bad computer when he Infact intended to create a magnificent device?

so who do you blame for the creation of a bad computer? the inventor or the computer that is what my question is

raphieMontella:

did god kill the babies who die in wombs?(naturally)

what about intersex babies?
Did god make them?

No. Humans die today because sin entered our world. Both righteous and sinful people die the natural death. Death came with sin. Death, however, is not the end There is hope beyond the grave for the righteous.

GOD does not kill righteous and innocent people. Satan does. Remember Job? Satan destroyed all his children. Remember the babies in bethlehem? Satan destroyed all of them in a bid to derail GOD's plan for man's redemption. Satan then killed Jesus.

Every human being is GOD's creature: blind, halt, deaf, disfigured, mad, black, white, hemaphrodite- all are His creation.

DoctorAlien:




GOD created Lucifer to glorify Himself. However, GOD didn't create him a robot. If He did, there wouldn't have been any possibility for Lucifer to disobey GOD. And so GOD creating Lucifer with freewill to choose either obedience or rebellion was a risk. Satan choosing to disobey would endanger creation. And he did. GOD however showed that He is wise by providing for the redemption of creation.

Yes. A careful study of the Bible reveals that Satan is much more powerful than man can conceive. Very powerful.

did God know he will dis obey?...is God all knowing?

cause from all you've stated it's as if God is not all-knowing

cause if I intend to create something to my taste and I'm the greatest designer there is how come my design ends up giving me headache?

Omg..cant you see?

butterfly88:
don't try to twist the logic I made with the computer the loopholes existed cause of the imperfection of the scientist but on a nutshell the computer is a wonderful device

so now if the devil is the computer and God the scientist...now thus is another type of computer I purely dangerous computer ...now is the scientist in this case God imperfect for creating a totally bad computer when he Infact intended to create a magnificent device?

so who do you blame for the creation of a bad computer? the inventor or the computer that is what my question is

The computer logic is mine, remember?

Now, a scientist gave birth to a son. This son became rebellious and disdained his father. Now this scientist invented a beautiful technology for spreading information about his scientific work but his rebellious son turned it into a device for spreading libellous messages and intensifying his rebellion against his father.

Who is to blame in this case?

butterfly88:
did God know he will dis obey?...is God all knowing?

cause from all you've stated it's as if God is not all-knowing

cause if I intend to create something to my taste and I'm the greatest designer there is how come my design ends up giving me headache?

Omg..cant you see?

The people that turn out to be criminals and rapists and murderers and armed robbers are people's children. People even give birth to children that eventually kill them. The people that gave birth to them never planned for them to become criminals. Therefore there is the risk in giving birth to a child: you might actually give birth to someone who would kill you.

Should people consider the risk and stop giving birth to children?

DoctorAlien:


The computer logic is mine, remember?

Now, a scientist gave birth to a son. This son became rebellious and disdained his father. Now this scientist invented a beautiful technology for spreading information about his scientific work but his rebellious son turned it into a device for spreading libellous messages and intensifying his rebellion against his father.

Who is to blame in this case?

yeah you started the computer logic Lol...tryna to use it to support you claim but in the wrong context then I tried to correct it but you persisted...

.now another twisting.....

but here is the point again is the father aware before hand that his soon while cause such troubles? even before given birth to him?

is the father aware that his son will lead millions into the abyss of no return....if yes then the father is to be held responsible

if no then your logic holds no water...cause it simply means that God has no perfect knowledge

otemanuduno:
@ Hahn, Almighty God created the universe with a Big Bang. And he made some beings to exist also. These beings are the gods such as yahweh, Eartum, Odin, Allah etc. These beings made other beings which are the homos. Any of these gods who made the homos are the gods of the homos they made, except if an homo is not aware of that, he just worships another god. Just like Jacksonville, a worshipper of yahweh a foreign god, instead of using his own brain to achieve success. Or worst still, worshipping the god of his land.

Also, humans like me and you can become gods on those who adore and idolises us. BUT THAT IS THE THING IN LIFE WHICH I HATE MOST. IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR IMPROVEMENT OF LIFE.

You don start

otemanuduno:
@ Hahn, Almighty God created the universe with a Big Bang. And he made some beings to exist also. These beings are the gods such as yahweh, Eartum, Odin, Allah etc. These beings made other beings which are the homos. Any of these gods who made the homos are the gods of the homos they made, except if an homo is not aware of that, he just worships another god. Just like Jacksonville, a worshipper of yahweh a foreign god, instead of using his own brain to achieve success. Or worst still, worshipping the god of his land.

Also, humans like me and you can become gods on those who adore and idolises us. BUT THAT IS THE THING IN LIFE WHICH I HATE MOST. IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR IMPROVEMENT OF LIFE.

Fool for the devil .. How can i worship a powerless god?

There's only one GOD that is true and most powerful... He is the giver of life.. He raises the poor from the dust and mingle him amongst princes to dine in riches..

He will go ahead of me and make crooked path straight..

He never forsakes the righteous and the saints, but the wicked shall face his wrath and he will descend his thunder upon them as plague.

The great redeemer that revealeth the plots of evil doers and rulers of darkness in high places..

The Holy spirit!

I will worship no other god because they are all false and powerless.

I have a GOD whom i serve and his name is 'I AM'[YAHWEH], who created me for a purpose which i must fulfil by his grace!

butterfly88:
yeah you started the computer logic Lol...tryna to use it to support you claim but in the wrong context then I tried to correct it but you persisted...

.now another twisting.....

but here is the point again is the father aware before hand that his soon while cause such troubles? even before given birth to him?

is the father aware that his son will lead millions into the abyss of no return....if yes then the father is to be held responsible

if no then your logic holds no water...cause it simply means that God has no perfect knowledge

Every parent surely knows that their ward can either be a very good person or a very bad person. They try their best, however, to make their wards toe the right part.

Jacksonville:



Fool for the devil .. How can i worship a powerless god?

There's only one GOD that is true and most powerful... He is the giver of life.. He raises the poor from the dust and mingle him amongst princes to dine in riches..

He will go ahead of me and make crooked path straight..

He never forsakes the righteous and the saints, but the wicked shall face his wrath and he will descend his thunder upon them as plague.

The great redeemer that revealeth the plots of evil doers and rulers of darkness in high places..

The Holy spirit!

I will worship no other god because they are all false and powerless.

I have a GOD whom i serve and his name is 'I AM'[YAHWEH], who created me for a purpose which i must fulfil by his grace!

Pictures of Yahweh or idonbelieveit

DoctorAlien:


The people that turn out to be criminals and rapists and murderers and armed robbers are people's children. People even give birth to children that eventually kill them. The people that gave birth to them never planned for them to become criminals. Therefore there is the risk in giving birth to a child: you might actually give birth to someone who would kill you.

Should people consider the risk and stop giving birth to children?

like I said risk is the product of uncertainty and imperfect knowledge,, just try this and that and see if it works out

by this logic do you mean God doesn't know beforehand that Satan will become a criminal?

lol..bros ure just bent on killing my battery,there is no point rearranging the seats of a sinking boat I guess....

DoctorAlien:




Every parent surely knows that their ward can either be a very good person or a very bad person. They try their best, however, to make their wards toe the right part.

still sailing in this your ship made of clay...

If I say something will either be good or bad that mean I'm uncertain about the outcome but have to take the "risk"
that's being human

this logic will only old true for God if he also is imperfect...so is God imperfect?

hahn:


Pictures of Yahweh or idonbelieveit

My God is ominipresence.. He's everywhere.

If you put your heart down and humble thy self by his throne of grace. He will reveal himself to you in mysterious ways.

Unless you operate in the prophetic you can't see his glory, neither will/can you his side.

That's all i can say..

butterfly88:
like I said risk is the product of uncertainty and imperfect knowledge,, just try this and that and see if it works out

by this logic do you mean God doesn't know beforehand that Satan will become a criminal?

lol..bros ure just bent on killing my battery,there is no point rearranging the seats of a sinking boat I guess....

Wrong. Risk is not a product. You don't take risk because you don't know the outcome. You take risk because you hope everything works out fine even though it could go wrong.

By that definition, people who know very well that children do turn into criminals should stop giving birth to avoid producing criminals.

LOL. Nice discussing with you, anyway.