Are sub-saharan Africans intellectually inferior on the average to other races?

If we accede to the fact that intelligence is heritable and we also agree that the environment places certain constraints on the individuals living within that environment, and these constraints influence the evolution of these individuals, then why can't we agree that intelligence should vary among human populations who evolved in different environments? Why do we oppose any claim that asserts the superiority or inferiority of a certain race in comparison to another race, when obviously they evolved in unique environments with unique constraints?

If we agree that natural selection is the vehicle that has driven genetic and phenotypical disparities evident in different races, why then do we oppose views that assert the disparities in intelligence, given the fact that intelligence has genetic underpinnings?

I recently had an argument with Sarassin and this was part of my argument.

There are observable, comparable variations in the expression of various traits noticeable in different races and regions of the world. Are east Africans better at long distance running than every other region in this world? Yes. Do black Africans make better athletes than every other race in the world? Yes. Do the South Americans, Portuguese and Spanish make better skillful footballers than every other region in the world? Yes.
Are the factors that influence these expressions genetic? Yes. If there are observable differences in the expression of physical traits, why can't there be differences in the expression of intellectual traits?

Now because South America, Portugal and Spain produces the most skillful footballers, does this mean there aren't skillful footballers in other parts of the world that are not up to the standard of those in these regions? No. But when you take the average percentage of skillful players in every region or race, there is a variation. Emphasis on average.

On the average, sub-saharan Africans are intellectually inferior to other races. Does that mean there aren't intelligent people in sub-saharan Africa that can compete with the most intelligent people in other races? No. There are obviously very smart people in sub-saharan Africa, but the average percentage of smart people in sub-saharan Africa is not up to the the average percentage in other races.

Although IQ tests don't measure every form of intelligence, it does measure certain crucial aspects of it, and it's result correlates highly with the ability to learn, think critically and rationally, to decipher complex situations and to solve abstract problems. IQ tests have statistically and repeatedly proven that east Asians are intellectually superior to other races, ON THE AVERAGE. The western world agrees with this. The advances they have made, within east Asia and outside, speaks for them. Both historically and currently. Few weeks ago, the Chinese created the world's first quantum computer. Something the west has been struggling with for years. The Chinese economy is growing at lightening speed. The west is scared of the gains they are making. Japanese technology industry is among the best in the world, despite the devastating effects of the second world war. South Korea has the fastest broadband in the world. North Korea that has grown practically in isolation for many years has made incredible strides in science and technology. All this substantiates the statistically proven claim, that they, in average, are intellectually superior to any other race in the world. If, averagely, east Asians have the smartest people, then it means there is a racial hierarchy in terms of intelligence.

See, I am an objective thinker. I don't play identity politics. I evaluate issues carefully and objectively. I don't avoid hard truths. There are more stupid people in sub-saharan Africa than there are smart people. This is a fact. Overt predominant forms of tribalism, religious dogmatism and the shameful inability to govern itself in a healthy, progressive and sustainable fashion confirms this. The reason we have bad leaders is that the majority of people are so stupid that it's more likely that stupid people would take up leadership positions. The reason I am emphasizing on this is that we need to empower our brightest and stop giving voices and leadership positions to our dumbest people who make the majority. We need to stop celebrating intellectually inferior celebrities and so called entertainment stars. The intelligent people in this country are few and we need to find them and support them with a strong educational structure, instead of sending them abroad to study. This is the only way we can move forward. Not by referring to hard truths as Nazi propaganda.

Why isn't anyone saying anything? You all agree with me?

More of my arguments.

My evidence for the intellectual inferiority of the black race is in the image the black race unabashedly portrays. It's evident in it's history and in its current state.

Intellectual inferiority doesn't mean intellectual ineptitude, it just means that in comparison with others it ranks lower. One could easily glean this from early sub-saharan civilizations. They lacked the complexity that other world civilizations had already built years before them. Yes, they had beautiful art and they smelted iron and they had simple political systems, but they didn't have intricate language that allowed for abstract thinking. They didn't have words for abstract nouns and large numbers. If you doubt me, examine your local language. Language is a reliable marker for deternining the level of intellectual sophistication of a group of people. It says a lot about how they think. They also didn't have any complex system of writing. They didn't have a sustainable source of documenting language and storing information. Other civilizations like the Arabs, Persians, Chinese, Greek and Roman empires already had theirs. Even the Incas and Mayans had theirs. Ancient Egypt that existed over 2000 years before them had theirs. Our ancient civilizations were great, but they were nothing compared to other civilizations. Our greatest civilizations like the great Mali and Kongo civilizations built an economy by trading their raw materials for finished goods. They weren't interested in creating useful finished products which they could sell since they had valuable raw materials.

Ancient sub-saharan civilizations, especially the ones that lived near the Atlantic weren't able to built an advanced form of boating technology. All they could create were canoes. Europe and Asia already had ships. Sub-saharan civilizations didn't develop any sophisticated weaponry. Other parts of the world were already far ahead in this department. A smart person would fortify his defenses in case outsiders attacked. Seems these people weren't that smart. And what was sub-saharan africa's contribution to the fields of sciences, mathematics, philosophy, and medicine in the ancient world? Nada.

And on the issue of slavery, we were the ones who sold our own neighbours to the Europeans. We were too stupid to realize the future circumstances of our greed and disregard for own kind. The typical black man would rather succeed while the rest of his kind suffers, not realizing that he and his posterity would still be viewed according to the image of the majority which he was instrumental in their downfall. This is evident today. Denying the prevalence of this behavior in our present society would be dishonest of you.

The current state of sub-saharan African illustrates just how backward in our thinking we are. All we do is find who to blame. But the reality is, what happened years ago doesn't matter. What matters is what we have been able to do with ourselves and our resources. Complaining and deflecting blame isn't going to help our predicament. What about the Jews that had 6,000,000 of them massacres by the Nazis? Practically all their lives they have been haunted, expatriated and killed by various civilizations spanning different epochs. They only gained independence in 1948 and look at all they have been able to achieve. How about the Chinese that were a Japanese colony during the second world war? The Japanese killed millions of them and subjugated them under their rule. But they have put all that behind them and look at how how developed they are. Even America was a British colony and had to fight for their own independence from British dominance. They were granted independence and using tools of unity, diligence and good leadership, they were able to build a great nation. But here in sub-saharan Africa all we have done is blame blame and blame. We lack the ability to work as a unit. We blame our leaders but the truth is our leaders are a reflection of the society. In the 1970s Nigerians blamed their leaders. In 2017 the people who blamed their leaders are now in power and the younger generation is blaming them.

We lack the ability to think in this part of the world. This section is proof. You and your atheist friends spend time trying to disabuse people from their harmful religious beliefs. And you fail. Piety and religious dogmatism correlates strongly with unintelligence. Sub-saharan Africans are among the most pious countries in the world with a disproportionately pious majority. If we couldn't prevent ourselves from physical slavery, we can prevent ourselves from being mentally enslaved but sadly, we revel in this slavery and we pass it on to our kids. One doesn't have to be a genius to see the flaws in religious beliefs, especially monotheistic ones. But over 90% of our population can't see it. We not only lack the ability to think critically, we also seem to have a staggering degree of intolerance for civil discuss. I have had this reaffirmed in lots of instances. Being open-minded correlates strongly with intelligence, not the other way round.

Sub-saharan Africa is a continent rich in natural resources, but yet it's the poorest region in the world. Iceland, a relatively young country that doesn't have any natural resources, yet they have a sustainable economy, and flourishing educational system. Sub-Saharan Africa has shown an appreciable degree of ineptitude in being able to govern herself. The fact that we can't escape the putrid pit of tribalism and bigotry, which is also influencing our underdevelopment, says alot about how 'smart" we are.

.....

Trudax:
Is it that you all agree with me, or you all are afraid to attempt to argue against something you wish isn't true?

Question: have you ever been outside Africa?

ifenes:


Question: have you ever been outside Africa?

I have, but how is this question relevant to the argument?

Trudax:


I have, but how is this question relevant to the argument?

Perhaps it might be. Sometimes it is necessary to see how the sub Saharan black performs in a particular field when brought up in a favourable environment. All humans have the same level of intelligence as far I have seen. In my college years I was one of the few blacks in the class and we were excellent. I don't see the point of this self degrading discussion.

Omohayek, I would like your views on this question.

There is no relationship between intelligence and ethnicities. If any person is exposed to knowledge, he could be and if he/she isn't, then he/she couldn't.

Trudax:
I recently had an argument with Sarassin and this was part of my argument.

And this formed a part of my reply to you;

Sarassin:


Thank you for your comments. I take your points. But actually you are advocating Nazi propaganda and it isn't sentimentality on my part. I don’t agree with your premise of Negroid intellectual inferiority. It is just a fanciful moniker for the universally condemned and discredited scientific racism or biological racism which sought to establish a link between race and intelligence and served as the driving force for racist worldviews which were in turn used to establish a hierarchy of superior and inferior races. These pseudo-sciences which you seem to be promulgating were condemned and proscribed by UNESCO after the second world war, Utterly reprehensible in my view.

You are entitled to your opinions as I am mine...............

Good luck with this.

ifenes:


Perhaps it might be. Sometimes it is necessary to see how the sub Saharan black performs in a particular field when brought up in a favourable environment. All humans have the same level of intelligence as far I have seen. In my college years I was one of the few blacks in the class and we were excellent. I don't see the point of this self degrading discussion.

How can you claim all humans have the same intelligence when we evidently differ in every other expressable trait? If there are genes that control every other trait, couldn't it be that there are genes that control intelligence and some races tend to have more highly evolved forms of these genes and possess it in greater number among their population?

But your FEW black classmates are just a minority in respect to the entire black population. How can you use their example as a conclusive proof to make the assertion that every race has the same intelligence? The Chinese outperform every other race irrespective of their environment. And their performance also corresponds with the results of IQ tests which blacks tend to underperform other races on the average.

I think the culture, structure and environment of a large group of individuals, is a more reliable way of evaluating variables such as intelligence. That's why in my argument against Sarassin, I used the the history and present situation of sub-saharan Africa to illustrate my point.

I don't think this is a self degrading question. I think it's one of the problems underlying sub-saharan Africa's underdevelopment and why it's lagging behind in various areas, and acknowledging it, is the first step at mitigating this problem.

...

Cc

Catfishbilly, hardmirror, Hahn, Jackbizzle, johnydon22, plaetton, loj, dalaman, deepsight,

I would appreciate your comments on this thread.

bigfrancis21 does best on these kind of threads.

Trudax:


How can you claim all humans have the same intelligence when we evidently differ in every other expressable trait? If there are genes that control every other trait, couldn't it be that there are genes that control intelligence and some races tend to have more highly evolved forms of these genes and possess it in greater number among their population?

But your FEW black classmates are just a minority in respect to the entire black population. How can you use their example as a conclusive proof to make the assertion that every race has the same intelligence? Chinese outperform every other race irrespective of their environment. And there performance also corresponds with the results of IQ tests which blacks the tend to underperform other race on the average.

I think the culture, structure and environment of a large group of individuals, is a more reliable way of evaluating variables such as intelligence. That's why in my argument against Sarassin, I used the the history and present situation of sub-saharan Africa to illustrate my point.

I don't think this is a self a degrading question. I think it's one of the problems underlying sub-saharan Africa's underdevelopment and why it's lagging behind in various areas, and acknowledging it, is the first step at mitigating these problem.

I dont think you have data concerning genes that code for intelligence. When you do, you can make your conclusion.

For now, intelligence is like a memory stick, only those with data are useful, no matter there capacity. Hope you understand why your argument is wrong.

Let me book space first and then reason the matter

This is a very delicate issue

ooman:


I dont think you have data concerning genes that code for intelligence. When you do, you can make your conclusion.

For now, intelligence is like a memory stick, only those with data are useful, no matter there capacity. Hope you understand why your argument is wrong.

There has not been data concerning the genes that control intelligence because people like you and Sarassin and all politically correct academics and so called liberals, strongly oppose and stifle the efforts of anyone who asks these kind of questions.

My argument is from observation, which I laid out in my first two posts, and it's strongly supported by various IQ tests that have been conducted globally, which there is enough data for.

Trudax:
Cc

Catfishbilly, hardmirror, Hahn, Jackbizzle, johnydon22, plaetton, loj, dalaman, deepsight,

I would appreciate your comments on this thread.

Hhhhmmm.

It's difficult to honestly answer this question without appearing self-deprecating.

Going by the letter of the question, my answer is yes( and many will come for my head).

Intellectually inferior in the sense that we , our entire cultural setups are somewhat impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion.

Our intellectual shortcomings are by NO means, and let me emphasize it, BY No means genetic, but due to accumulated and entrenched cultural/religious norms and habits.

N:B
And let me emphasize that I personally make a distinction between intelligence and intellectual expression.
The difference between the two are culture.
Every human is embued with intelligence. Intellectualism is the expression of that innate intelligence.

Some cultures foster the expression of intelligence, intellectualism, while many cultures, such as we have in subsahara Africa, impedes the expression of that innate intelligence.

I hope the above makes some sense.
I am not even sure it does.

I don't think any race is inherently superior to the other intellectually.
Even the flawed pseudoscience of phrenology failed to establish this.

plaetton:


Hhhhmmm.

It's difficult to honestly answer this question without appearing self-deprecating.

Going by the letter of the question, my answer is yes( and many will come for my head).

Intellectually inferior in the sense that we , our entire cultural setups are somewhat impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion.

Our intellectual shortcomings are by NO means, and let me emphasize it, BY No means genetic, but due to accumulated and entrenched cultural/religious norms and habits.

Isn't the act of consciously repeatedly setting up impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion a marker of unintelligence, especially among the majority who create these impediments?

Why do you think they aren't genetic when we know that smart parents give birth to smart kids? Also, since behaviors and physical traits are heritable, hence genetic, why is intelligence any different?

CatfishBilly:
I don't think any race is inherently superior to the other intellectually.
Even the flawed pseudoscience of phrenology failed to establish this.

I think Caucasians would disagree with you. They have established that east Asians are intellectually superior to them. Their level of academic performance on the average proves this, their average statistical IQ scores proves this, and the current state of east Asians countries and the advances they have made economically, scientifically and technologically proves this.

Please answer this question: Are east Africans, that is Kenyans and Ethiopians, better at long distance running?

Trudax:


There has not been data concerning the genes that control intelligence because people like you and Sarassin and all politically correct academics and so called liberals, strongly oppose and stifle the efforts of anyone who asks these kind of questions.

My argument is from observation, which I laid out in my first two posts, and it's strongly supported by various IQ tests that have been conducted globally, which there is enough data for.

Its not about the question asked, the question is valid. It's about the truth of the answers.

There is no genetic database nor standard for intelligence that can be compared which can lead to conclusions that whites are smarter.

Again, not all whites are smart, its just that their works are propagated than ours. There are also exceptional inventors, doctors, writers etc from Africa who are recognized worldwide.

Your argument would have some validity if all non africans are smarter than all Africans

ooman:


Its not about the question asked, the question is valid. It's about the truth of the answers.

There is no genetic database nor standard for intelligence that can be compared which can lead to conclusions that whites are smarter.

Again, not all whites are smart, its just that their works are propagated than ours. There are also exceptional inventors, doctors, writers etc from Africa who are recognized worldwide.

Your argument would have some validity if all non africans are smarter than all Africans

IQ tests are a standard. I am not saying they are the best standard that could ever be created, but their results are highly predictive of aspects of intelligence that encompass the ability to learn, to think critically, to decipher complex problems and abstract reasoning. It's no surprise that geniuses like Albert Einstein, Steven Hawkins and Steven Weinberg, score higher that majority of the world's population. According to IQ tests, East Asians score higher on the average, not even Caucasians. So I don't even know where you are getting the idea that I am suggesting that whites are intellectually superior to other races.

Trudax:




Why do you think they aren't genetic when we know that smart parents give birth to smart kids? Also, since behaviors and physical traits are heritable, hence genetic, why is intelligence any different?

There has been a long scientific debate about nature vs nurture.
NATURE gives you, everyone, certain dispositions. But NURTURE( social/ cultural environment) can either foster or impede the expression of these dispositions.

Our social/ cultural setup impedes the intellectual potential.

Just look at Nigeria, for example, country that produces the best in almost Field of human endeavor the Diaspora, but has very serious, very chronic intellectual dearth back home, with everyone, old and young , still beholden to stone age superstitions from the middle East, embracing and hugging them as if they were our very own.

Look at our educational setup back home ,where my child's biology teacher, rather than taking and tasking her , step by step, on the wonder of photosynthesis, would rather the young minds that god is responsible for photosynthesis.

Or the 90 or so religious fellowships at kingebukasblog Delta State university.
Can you see that as with our forefathers, so it is today or even worse on the continual war against intellectualism in our society.

The African mind is rewired to be anti intellectual right from childhood.
Look at how many charlatans like Adeboye, Oyedepo, Mbaka there are in every nook and corner of Nigeria promoting magical thinking, an open war against intellectualism.

Trudax:


IQ tests are a standard. I am not saying they are the best standard that could ever be created, but there results are highly predictive of aspects of intelligence that encompass the ability to learn, to think critically, to decipher complex problems and abstract reasoning. It's no surprise that geniuses like Albert Einstein, Steven Hawkins and Steven Weinberg, score higher that majority of the world's population. According to IQ tests, East Asians score higher on the average, not even Caucasians. So I don't even no where you are getting the idea that I am suggesting that whites are intellectually superior to other races.

Do u know blacks outside Africa also score higher in such tests.
Do u know iq test is not the conclusive test for intelligence?
Do you know that not all who score higher in such test are exceptional in logic and science?
You need to make more research about iq test and its place in intelligence.
There's more to intelligence than such tests.

Plaetton, Deepsight, long time.

ooman:
Plaetton, Deepsight, long time.

Yeah Man, longest time.
Nice to see ya again.

plaetton:

Yeah Man, longest time.
Nice to see ya again.

Just passing by...

I think we are inferior intellectually and in terms of intelligence.

plaetton:


There has been a long scientific debate about nature vs nurture.
NATURE gives you, everyone, certain dispositions. But NURTURE( social/ cultural environment) can either foster or impede the expression of these dispositions.

Our social/ cultural setup impedes the intellectual potential.

Just look at Nigeria, for example, country that produces the best in almost Field of human endeavor the Diaspora, but has very serious, very chronic intellectual dearth back home, with everyone, old and young , still beholden to stone age superstitions from the middle East, embracing and hugging them as if they were our very own.

Look at our educational setup back home ,where my child's biology teacher, rather than taking and tasking her , step by step, on the wonder of photosynthesis, would rather the young minds that god is responsible for photosynthesis.

Or the 90 or so religious fellowships at kingebukasblog Delta State university.
Can you see that as with our forefathers, so it is today or even worse on the continual war against intellectualism in our society.

The African mind is rewired to be anti intellectual right from childhood.
Look at how many charlatans like Adeboye, Oyedepo, Mbaka there are in every nook and corner of Nigeria promoting magical thinking, an open war against intellectualism.

I also share your sentiments on religion and culture. But I also think that in this day and age with constant exposure to information, these cultural structures aren't as potent as you claim, and shouldn't be used as an excuse. Also, I think innate traits can override cultural limitations, especially in the area of examining ideas and arriving at valid conclusions, which is a telling sign of intelligence. I was also born in a strongly religious environment, but as I grew older, I started to think and question and I was able to free myself from"cultural impediments." The cultural impediments present in my environment didn't suppress my innate ability to critically examine ideas. I am sure there are people who also share this testimony, probably even yourself.

The lack of critical and objective thinking is a marker of of unintelligence and it correlates strongly with religious piety. Gallop carried out polls on the level of piety in different countries of the world. Sub-saharan African countries were statistically proven to have the most pious population with the level of piety exceeding 95% in most sub-saharan countries, including Nigeria.

Haven't you wondered why despite your efforts at pointing out the flaws in people's beliefs on this forum, despite how much time you spend, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence you provide, majority of the people still cling tenaciously to their religious beliefs? I don't think this is a cultural problem, I think it's just a lack of innate intellectual resources.

ooman:


Do u know blacks outside Africa also score higher in such tests.
Do u know iq test is not the conclusive test for intelligence?
Do you know that not all who score higher in such test are exceptional in logic and science?
You need to make more research about iq test and its place in intelligence.
There's more to intelligence than such tests.

But the Blacks outside Africa, on the average, don't score up to Caucasians or Asians, even when Black children are adopted by Caucasian parents in completely different environments.

Can you stop being defensive and engage with my argument? I never said IQ tests are a conclusive test for intelligence, what I said was that it correlates with the aspects of intelligence I used in the caveat I stated in my previous response to you. I will state that caveat again: Although IQ tests aren't the best judge of intelligence, it's results are highly indicative of the learning ability, critical thinking, complex problem solving and abstract reasoning.

I think you need to make more research about IQ tests.

And IQ tests aren't even the bedrock of my argument. I examined sub-saharan Africa's history and its current picture and I found it reflective of an intellectual inferiority to other races and regions. My arguments are in my first two posts. I think you missed it.