Fredmatic:

What are u saying ? Didn't u ready that part of the bible where Jesus said baptise them in the be of the fsther , son and holy spirit? Forget those your history just follow the simple part of truth.
Also read john1, 1-5 your will kn while Jesus is God

So many things were smuggled into the bible. Trinity, stories of stoning the adulterous woman and many more.

Trinity is roman paganism.

Jacksonville:
Jesus is God in flesh. The mystery of Christ will be forever hidden to mankind and the event that occurred at Gethsemane 2000yrs ago, unless you know the mind of God you can't know...

The first Adam, the bringer of death disconnected man from God, hence there was no means to commune with God except a prophet with hand of God or by his mercies through dreams to individuals... The spirit of God could no longer strive with man.

But the second Adam, the Seed of God whose blood was most sacred to cleanse the sins of man came to bring life(the spirit) and restore the communication link and also to bring men unto God. He walked the streets as a man.
6.who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Philippians 2:6-7)


in verse 6 n 7..It says he had the form of God. This simply means he was God but he wasn't gonna make it obvious yet because he was embodied in flesh. A man cannot be equal with God almighty and he shouldn't be seen as flesh. So he humbled himself and made himself of less importance and glorified God's name(his name in disguise). In verse 8, the Bible says he was humble even unto death on the cross.

All this he did was to draw all men unto to God to worship in spirit n in truth ..." If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me(God)" (John12:32)
..
His greatest temptation wasn't in the wilderness but at Gethsemane , the point where he would have chosen to save himself or not.,,His choice would determine the faith of mankind still, just like in the garden..

To cut the story short.... After he died and resurrected the 3rd day.. He was seen by Mary madaglene after her persistence in asking and crying after the messiah despite the angelic visitation. John20:12-17...
when she recognised him and called him master, she tried to touch him but Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. ...

He had not yet presented his blood in holies of holies..because when an animal is slain for sacrifice in the old testament, it's slain outside the Holy Temple and the blood is taken to the Holy ground by the priest for acceptance... Notice the emboldened.. He had not ascended; He hasn't been lifted up according to (john12:32)

By revelation Peter called Jesus the Christ. But when he appeared to Thomas in the closed room with everyone present, he touched the wounded places by his side and the nail holes.. "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

This was after he had ascended and he had been given the Glory he had before creation began and Thomas eyes were opened to see that he was God.. If it was Thomas's God, then it's also Madaglene's God and my God...

Jesus is Lord and God. If two things are one, then its automatically considered to be equal ..According to John 10:30 "I and the father are one".

He said the father was greater than he is in the sense that he was embodied in flesh (he took the form and likeness of man) and his mission wasn't to draw men to worship a man but God. So he denied his divine reputation to Glorify the name of God, And in turn he was Glorified...


Besides, Yesterday was fools day for those that say "there's no God"..

Shalom..

I keep wondering where the issue or debates of "Jesus Christ Equal God Almighty should be debated" when Jesus Christ already addressed that issue in John 10: 30-38; 

30. I and my Father are one.
31.  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Looking at Christ's own defense here is just ok for anyone who wants to learn that Christ never addressed himself as "God" but always call himself "Son of God" as seen in verse 36 where he countered the wrong insinuation by the Jews when they wrongly accused him of making himself "God" in verse 33.

I have heard some Pastors and teachers of the Holy Scriptures saying Jesus Christ was the same as "I AM THAT I AM" and even linked that to what Jesus said before the Jews in John 8: 58 when he said, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." which to me is barbaric and unscriptural. 

Some even take John 1: 1-5 as meaning Jesus Is God the Father when it is very clear here the word God here is what Jesus Christ said in John 10: 34; "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" here Christ was quoting Psalms 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." here Jesus was trying to make the Jews realized that if mere men (mortals) are referred to as god then how much him that came from God, sanctified and ordered to be the Word of God to mankind cannot address himself as "Son of God"? (John 10: 35-36). 

If you are going with the Doctrine of Trinity as saying Jesus is of equal status as God Almighty then you are rewriting the Bible which should not be seen with someone professing Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. Reflect on this, if Jesus is of equal status and form with God then why does the Bible say this; "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4) and you wondered why Jesus said the followings; 
"You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); "16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19: 16 -17) you can study; Mark 10: 17-18, Luke 18: 18-19. It is very simple Jesus Christ gave all respect to His Father in Heaven as the only God that is Good and not even Him for he always "reverence His Father". I don't think it would be appropriate to say "a God is showing reverence to another God" which is clearly what you are insinuating. Jesus also said this about His God, my God, your God whom we worship; "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36). Even the book of Mark 13: 32 was deeper in this; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."! As you can see if Jesus is God of equal power and form with God he wouldn't have said only God is good nor him accepting the fact that not even him as the "Son" knows the hour when the last days judgment shall come.

I can go on and on where Christ was speaking and not his Apostles now but him talking about his status with God which I believe you can relate to but let me stop here because I know as an Holy Spirit- filled reader of the Bible you can be guided by the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth to know more about Jesus Doctrine which is Divine and Doctrines of Men which is sensual. Take care and God bless you.

asuustrike2009:

You need the help of the holy ghost to teach you deeper things. There are things that are hidden from humanity which he reveals.( 1 Cor 2:10)

You lied bro, there is nothing needed for our exaltation and spiritual growth that had not been revealed in the Holy Scriptures if only you allow the Holy Spirit to teach you things that are difficult to understand in the Bible. Those things that you can't understand are the secret things Bible talked about in Deuteronomy 29:29; "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." the issue of Trinity was never a mystery because the Bible never said so. Address this;

I keep wondering why the issue or debates of "Jesus Christ Equal God Almighty should be debated" when Jesus Christ already addressed that issue in John 10: 30-38; 

30. I and my Father are one.
31.  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Looking at Christ's own defense here is just ok for anyone who wants to learn that Christ never addressed himself as "God" but always call himself "Son of God" as seen in verse 36 where he countered the wrong insinuation by the Jews when they wrongly accused him of making himself "God" in verse 33.

I have heard some Pastors and teachers of the Holy Scriptures saying Jesus Christ was the same as "I AM THAT I AM" and even linked that to what Jesus said before the Jews in John 8: 58 when he said, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." which to me is barbaric and unscriptural. 

Some even take John 1: 1-5 as meaning Jesus Is God the Father when it is very clear here the word God here is what Jesus Christ said in John 10: 34; "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" here Christ was quoting Psalms 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." here Jesus was trying to make the Jews realized that if mere men (mortals) are referred to as god then how much him that came from God, sanctified and ordered to be the Word of God to mankind cannot address himself as "Son of God"? (John 10: 35-36). 

If you are going with the Doctrine of Trinity as saying Jesus is of equal status as God Almighty then you are rewriting the Bible which should not be seen with someone professing Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. Reflect on this, if Jesus is of equal status and form with God then why does the Bible say this; "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4) and you wondered why Jesus said the followings; 
"You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); "16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19: 16 -17) you can study; Mark 10: 17-18, Luke 18: 18-19. It is very simple Jesus Christ gave all respect to His Father in Heaven as the only God that is Good and not even Him for he always "reverence His Father". I don't think it would be appropriate to say "a God is showing reverence to another God" which is clearly what you are insinuating. Jesus also said this about His God, my God, your God whom we worship; "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36). Even the book of Mark 13: 32 was deeper in this; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."! As you can see if Jesus is God of equal power and form with God he wouldn't have said only God is good nor him accepting the fact that not even him as the "Son" knows the hour when the last days judgment shall come.

I can go on and on where Christ was speaking and not his Apostles now but him talking about his status with God which I believe you can relate to but let me stop here because I know as an Holy Spirit- filled reader of the Bible you can be guided by the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth to know more about Jesus Doctrine which is Divine and Doctrines of Men which is sensual. Take care and God bless you.

tomakint:


Looking at Christ's own defense here is just ok for anyone who wants to learn that Christ never addressed himself as "God" but always call himself "Son of God" as seen in verse 36 where he countered the wrong insinuation by the Jews when they wrongly accused him of making himself "God" in verse 33.

They never accused him wrongly. But rather, they were spiritually blind and they couldn't recognise he was the fortold messiah from Isaiah 9:6 ; The mighty God And everlasting Father

I have heard some Pastors and teachers of the Holy Scriptures saying Jesus Christ was the same as "I AM THAT I AM" and even linked that to what Jesus said before the Jews in John 8: 58 when he said, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." which to me is barbaric and unscriptural.  Some even take John 1: 1-5 as meaning Jesus Is God the Father when it is very clear here the word God here is what Jesus Christ said in John 10: 34; "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" here Christ was quoting Psalms 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." here Jesus was trying to make the Jews realized that if mere men (mortals) are referred to as god then how much him that came from God, sanctified and ordered to be the Word of God to mankind cannot address himself as "Son of God"? (John 10: 35-36)

If you are going with the Doctrine of Trinity as saying Jesus is of equal status as God Almighty then you are rewriting the Bible which should not be seen with someone professing Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. Reflect on this, if Jesus is of equal status and form with God then why does the Bible say this; "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4) and you wondered why Jesus said the followings; 
"You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); "16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19: 16 -17) you can study; Mark 10: 17-18, Luke 18: 18-19. It is very simple Jesus Christ gave all respect to His Father in Heaven as the only God that is Good and not even Him for he always "reverence His Father". I don't think it would be appropriate to say "a God is showing reverence to another God" which is clearly what you are insinuating. Jesus also said this about His God, my God, your God whom we worship; "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36). Even the book of Mark 13: 32 was deeper in this; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."! As you can see if Jesus is God of equal power and form with God he wouldn't have said only God is good nor him accepting the fact that not even him as the "Son" knows the hour when the last days judgment shall come.

I can go on and on where Christ was speaking and not his Apostles now but him talking about his status with God which I believe you can relate to but let me stop here because I know as an Holy Spirit- filled reader of the Bible you can be guided by the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth to know more about Jesus Doctrine which is Divine and Doctrines of Men which is sensual. Take care and God bless you.

When Jesus said "if you destroy this temple I shall rebuild it in 3days" The Pharisees understood what he meant but rather they used his words literally to persecute him.
Mathew 27:
62Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, [63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

So they understood fully what he meant by saying he was the Son of God and "before Abraham was , I am"....

He made himself of know reputation. If as a man he claimed to know it all, his ardent followers would start worshipping him rather than God...
After his ascension, he was no longer a man but he ascended the throne as God, the alpha and omega.

Or why would Thomas call him his God and Jesus didn't rebuke him? Can you tell me?.
Peter called him son of God and he affirmed, others called him Elijah, Jeremiah etc but he didn't affirm...

Tell me why he didn't rebuke Thomas...?

ShadowFighter:


I asked you a question and you are refering me to John 14:28?
John said, the Word (Jesus) was with God (Yaweh) in the beginning and the Word (Jesus) was God (Yaweh). So can you explain this or not?

Jesus is not Yahweh.

The fact that someone is called God doesn't make them Yahweh, which is where you are mistaken Sir.

Does the fact that humans Re called GOD in the Bible, make them Yahweh ?

tomakint:


You lied bro, there is nothing needed for our exaltation and spiritual growth that had not been revealed in the Holy Scriptures if only you allow the Holy Spirit to teach you things that are difficult to understand in the Bible. Those things that you can't understand are the secret things Bible talked about in Deuteronomy 29:29; "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." the issue of Trinity was never a mystery because the Bible never said so. Address this;

I keep wondering why the issue or debates of "Jesus Christ Equal God Almighty should be debated" when Jesus Christ already addressed that issue in John 10: 30-38; 

30. I and my Father are one.
31.  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Looking at Christ's own defense here is just ok for anyone who wants to learn that Christ never addressed himself as "God" but always call himself "Son of God" as seen in verse 36 where he countered the wrong insinuation by the Jews when they wrongly accused him of making himself "God" in verse 33.

I have heard some Pastors and teachers of the Holy Scriptures saying Jesus Christ was the same as "I AM THAT I AM" and even linked that to what Jesus said before the Jews in John 8: 58 when he said, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." which to me is barbaric and unscriptural. 

Some even take John 1: 1-5 as meaning Jesus Is God the Father when it is very clear here the word God here is what Jesus Christ said in John 10: 34; "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" here Christ was quoting Psalms 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." here Jesus was trying to make the Jews realized that if mere men (mortals) are referred to as god then how much him that came from God, sanctified and ordered to be the Word of God to mankind cannot address himself as "Son of God"? (John 10: 35-36). 

If you are going with the Doctrine of Trinity as saying Jesus is of equal status as God Almighty then you are rewriting the Bible which should not be seen with someone professing Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. Reflect on this, if Jesus is of equal status and form with God then why does the Bible say this; "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4) and you wondered why Jesus said the followings; 
"You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); "16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19: 16 -17) you can study; Mark 10: 17-18, Luke 18: 18-19. It is very simple Jesus Christ gave all respect to His Father in Heaven as the only God that is Good and not even Him for he always "reverence His Father". I don't think it would be appropriate to say "a God is showing reverence to another God" which is clearly what you are insinuating. Jesus also said this about His God, my God, your God whom we worship; "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36). Even the book of Mark 13: 32 was deeper in this; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."! As you can see if Jesus is God of equal power and form with God he wouldn't have said only God is good nor him accepting the fact that not even him as the "Son" knows the hour when the last days judgment shall come.

I can go on and on where Christ was speaking and not his Apostles now but him talking about his status with God which I believe you can relate to but let me stop here because I know as an Holy Spirit- filled reader of the Bible you can be guided by the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth to know more about Jesus Doctrine which is Divine and Doctrines of Men which is sensual. Take care and God bless you.

Mr man you write all these based on your understanding. When the holy ghost teaches things, you way of thinking will change. Stop reading the Bible like literature in English because all you wrote are not inspired by God

asuustrike2009:

Mr man you write all these based on your understanding. When the holy ghost teaches things, you way of thinking will change. Stop reading the Bible like literature in English because all you wrote are not inspired by God

You need the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you whatever I put up there were supported with Holy Bible references and are clearly not my interpretations. Stay in the Bible saying and imbibed the divine teachings and doctrines of Christ and not doctrines of men that confuse you more. I will rather say try to study the Bible more ain't no shame in that.

tomakint:


You need the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you whatever I put up there were supported with Holy Bible references and are clearly not my interpretations. Stay in the Bible saying and imbibed the divine teachings and doctrines of Christ and not doctrines of men that confuse you more. I will rather say try to study the Bible more ain't no shame in that.

The holy spirit isn't inspiring you at all. I know when he speaks but yours is far from it

asuustrike2009:

The holy spirit isn't inspiring you at all. I know when he speaks but yours is far from it

Refute all my claims with Biblical evidences and stop being "god" be humble you know nothing about me. Doctrine of Trinity was man inspired and I have shown you the origin yet you are still adamant to believe what you created from your fantansy as inspired by the Bishops Constantine gathered together in AD 325 at Nicea. What else do you want me to say. Jesus Christ never called himself God and never equate himself to be God so what are you saying?

tomakint:


Refute all my claims with Biblical evidences and stop being "god" be humble you know nothing about me. Doctrine of Trinity was man inspired and I have shown you the origin yet you are still adamant to believe what you created from your fantansy as inspired by the Bishops Constantine gathered together in AD 325 at Nicea. What else do you want me to say. Jesus Christ never called himself God and never equate himself to be God so what are you saying?

Mr man the holy spirit doesn't work that way.You are too carnal that even if I quote scriptures you wouldn't follow

asuustrike2009:

Mr man the holy spirit doesn't work that way.You are too carnal that even if I quote scriptures you wouldn't follow

Any man inspired or filled with the Holy Spirit will always have a teachable spirit which you lack and such a one will never judge his fellow brother wrongly which you just did by calling me carnal when it's not necessary when all you need is to educate me on how Jesus Christ is the same as God and show me where Bible supports Trinity. I can easily see through your hypocritical tendencies. You need Jesus my brother and also study more.

tomakint:


Any man inspired or filled with the Holy Spirit will always have a teachable spirit which you lack and such a one will never judge his fellow brother wrongly which you just did by calling me carnal when it's not necessary when all you need is to educate me on how Jesus Christ is the same as God and show me where Bible supports Trinity. I can easily see through your hypocritical tendencies. You need Jesus my brother and also study more.

Oga I know your type. You have made up your mind not to believe. Even if I dissect the scriptures to you, you would find fault

asuustrike2009:

Oga I know your type. You have made up your mind not to believe. Even if I dissect the scriptures to you, you would find fault

Mr I am not whom you think, you don't know me and never will, we are only discussing the Bible written by mortal men but inspired by the Holy Spirit of an Immortal God, state your proofs of what we are saying convincingly from the same Bible we are quoting from and lets learn together and not when you are forcing doctrines of men down our throat. May God help you to discern and learn.

tomakint:


Mr I am not whom you think, you don't know me and never will, we are only discussing the Bible written by mortal men but inspired by the Holy Spirit of an Immortal God, state your proofs of what we are saying convincingly from the same Bible we are quoting from and lets learn together and not when you are forcing doctrines of men down our throat. May God help you to discern and learn.

I have thought this topic before on this forum

asuustrike2009:

I have thought this topic before on this forum

What's that supposed to mean? "I" is simply a term of someone who knows it all in this stance please keep your knowledge and do a little dig deeper into the Word of Life and learn more. This thread is rich enough to make you do more research and learn and don't assume you know it all. I am still learning the Word of Life too.

CANTICLES:


Jesus is not Yahweh.

The fact that someone is called God doesn't make them Yahweh, which is where you are mistaken Sir.

Does the fact that humans Re called GOD in the Bible, make them Yahweh ?

My brother this is the crux of the matter and that's why I tried to show him the origin of the "doctrine of Trinity many Christians have suddenly taken as being Biblical hence creating 3 Gods in one body which is contrary to the Bible stand. Even in Revelations chapter 5, one can see clearly that the "Lamb that was Slain" (Jesus Christ) was a different and subservient personality to "Him that sitteth on the Throne" (Yahweh, Jehovah, God Almighty) as clearly seen here; 6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. it shows the doctrine of trinity is just to cause confusion. Yes the Three (God, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit) agree and work together in unity but definitely are three distinct supernatural beings that operates differently and are subservient to one God, who is Yahweh, Jehovah whom Christ worships too

tomakint:


What's that supposed to mean? "I" is simply a term of someone who knows it all in this stance please keep your knowledge and do a little dig deeper into the Word of Life and learn more. This thread is rich enough to make you do more research and learn and don't assume you know it all. I am still learning the Word of Life too.

I learn from people who are willingly to teach not accusing unnecessary. I learn from people that are filled with the holy ghost not people with literatures. I learn from people that do not slander. When I see a spirit led literature i know because such literature are deep beyond human comprehension. My brother yours isn't deep beyond human comprehension. There is no rhema in it. There is nothing new except quotations.

asuustrike2009:

I learn from people who are willingly to teach not accusing unnecessary. I learn from people that are filled with the holy ghost not people with literatures. I learn from people that do not slander. When I see a spirit led literature i know because such literature are deep beyond human comprehension. My brother yours isn't deep beyond human comprehension. There is no rhema in it. There is nothing new except quotations.

I can understand you clearly now since you can identify Rhema in a literature kindly read my post below then you can come up with your own rebuttal for a real debates void of ad hominem attacks and distractions. Below is my submission;

I keep wondering why the issue or debates of "Jesus Christ Equal God Almighty should be debated" when Jesus Christ already addressed that issue in John 10: 30-38; 

30. I and my Father are one.
31.  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Looking at Christ's own defense here is just ok for anyone who wants to learn that Christ never addressed himself as "God" but always call himself "Son of God" as seen in verse 36 where he countered the wrong insinuation by the Jews when they wrongly accused him of making himself "God" in verse 33.

I have heard some Pastors and teachers of the Holy Scriptures saying Jesus Christ was the same as "I AM THAT I AM" and even linked that to what Jesus said before the Jews in John 8: 58 when he said, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." which to me is barbaric and unscriptural. 

Some even take John 1: 1-5 as meaning Jesus Is God the Father when it is very clear here the word God here is what Jesus Christ said in John 10: 34; "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" here Christ was quoting Psalms 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." here Jesus was trying to make the Jews realized that if mere men (mortals) are referred to as god then how much him that came from God, sanctified and ordered to be the Word of God to mankind cannot address himself as "Son of God"? (John 10: 35-36). 

If you are going with the Doctrine of Trinity as saying Jesus is of equal status as God Almighty then you are rewriting the Bible which should not be seen with someone professing Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour. Reflect on this, if Jesus is of equal status and form with God then why does the Bible say this; "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" (Deuteronomy 6:4) and you wondered why Jesus said the followings; 
"You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28); "16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17. And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19: 16 -17) you can study; Mark 10: 17-18, Luke 18: 18-19. It is very simple Jesus Christ gave all respect to His Father in Heaven as the only God that is Good and not even Him for he always "reverence His Father". I don't think it would be appropriate to say "a God is showing reverence to another God" which is clearly what you are insinuating. Jesus also said this about His God, my God, your God whom we worship; "But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36). Even the book of Mark 13: 32 was deeper in this; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."! As you can see if Jesus is God of equal power and form with God he wouldn't have said only God is good nor him accepting the fact that not even him as the "Son" knows the hour when the last days judgment shall come.

I can go on and on where Christ was speaking and not his Apostles now but him talking about his status with God which I believe you can relate to but let me stop here because I know as an Holy Spirit- filled reader of the Bible you can be guided by the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth to know more about Jesus Doctrine which is Divine and Doctrines of Men which is sensual. Take care and God bless you.

Jesus Christ is God, as He is in the form of God. That is, He is of the same substance as God. But Jesus is NOT the same as Yahweh. Yahweh is superior. Yahweh is His Father. Yahweh is the Almighty God.

adelee777:
Jesus Christ is God, as He is in the form of God. That is, He is of the same substance as God. But Jesus is NOT the same as Yahweh. Yahweh is superior. Yahweh is His Father. Yahweh is the Almighty God.

As much as I cherish this simple breakdown of this debate I still think that the bolden is not substantiated for in the Bible. Even in the book of Revelations in chapter 5, you can tell they were never of the same Substance. No creature can be compared to God sir, he is Supreme and Christ affirms this quality in the Father. Thanks my brother.

The Doctrine of Trinity is not about the organization of Godhead in hierarchy but explaining the qualities each personality in the God head shares. Ex. All of them are eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, etc

Jesus declare that Him and the Father are one; this only explains the agreement they has together and can come to instant conclusions without contradicting each other.

ShadowFighter:
Several parts in the bible talks about the Trinity. You can't just dismiss it b'cause you don't like it or it doesn't suit you.

The baptisimal formula in Matt. 28:19, ''Go ye therefore, and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is a clear indication of the Trinity.

Even the Creation of man uses plural tearms. Gen 1:26, '' And God said, Let US make man in OUR own image....

""baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit""


What u said above doesn't equate the father son n holy spirit, It simply mentions the 3 of them together.

A son is not equal to a Father.

While on earth jesus still prayed to his father in heaven n that clears Everything.

Primesky:

God is a tripartite being. He is one in three and three in one. To naturally explain it, do this. Take water, put it into three separate containers. Put one in the freezer, boil one portion, and leave the other portion alone. The water in the freezer becomes ice, the water on fire becomes vapor, while you have the remaining one in its natural state as water.

Please, tell me, will I be wrong to say that the water turned ice is the same as the one in the natural state? Will I be wrong to say the water turned vapour is same as the one in the natural state? You see, water existing in three different state, but is one and the same water!

It's a good one. The ice will melt and return to water while the vapour will evaporate and disappear into thin air. Can't say they are all the one and same water though, unless the processes are performed on the exact same particular water. I however wonder more what would happen to my gin if I added the vapour (steam) state water to my gin instead of the ice?


Laugh! I'm not being serious.

PrecisionFx:



""baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit""


What u said above doesn't equate the father son n holy spirit, It simply mentions the 3 of them together.

A son is not equal to a Father.

While on earth jesus still prayed to his father in heaven n that clears Everything.

You just helped a brother to the deeper meaning in the relationship among the 3 distinct Beings, who are; God Almighty, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. I just pray he will understand the Holy Scriptures through the interpretations of the Holy Spirit that teaches us the Truth and not through the interpretations of his Pastors that lead to Doctrines of Men! Trinity is a Doctrine of Men which the Bible warns us against. As I am typing now, trinity teaching has bring more confusion into the household of faith than belief.

GoodMuyis:
The Doctrine of Trinity is not about the organization of Godhead in hierarchy but explaining the qualities each personality in the God head shares. Ex. All of them are eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, etc

Jesus declare that Him and the Father are one; this only explains the agreement they has together and can come to instant conclusions without contradicting each other.

You need to study this then;

"What occurred at the Council of Nicea?"

Answer: The Council of Nicea took place in AD 325 by order of the Roman Emperor Caesar Flavius Constantine. Nicea was located in Asia Minor, east of Constantinople. At the Council of Nicea, Emperor Constantine presided over a group of church bishops and other leaders with the purpose of defining the nature of God for all of Christianity and eliminating confusion, controversy, and contention within the church. The Council of Nicea overwhelmingly affirmed the deity and eternality of Jesus Christ and defined the relationship between the Father and the Son as “of one substance.” It also affirmed the Trinity—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were listed as three co-equal and co-eternal Persons.

Constantine, who claimed conversion to Christianity, called for a meeting of bishops to be held in Nicea to resolve some escalating controversies among the church leadership. The issues being debated included the nature of Jesus Christ, the proper date to celebrate Easter, and other matters. The failing Roman Empire, now under Constantine’s rule, could not withstand the division caused by years of hard-fought, “out of hand” arguing over doctrinal differences. The emperor saw the quarrels within the church not only as a threat to Christianity but as a threat to society as well. Therefore, at the Council of Nicea, Constantine encouraged the church leaders to settle their internal disagreements and become Christlike agents who could bring new life to a troubled empire. Constantine felt “called” to use his authority to help bring about unity, peace, and love within the church.

The main theological issue had always been about Christ. Since the end of the apostolic age, Christians had begun debating these questions: Who is the Christ? Is He more divine than human or more human than divine? Was Jesus created or begotten? Being the Son of God, is He co-equal and co-eternal with the Father, or is He lower in status than the Father? Is the Father the one true God, or are the Father, Son, and Spirit the one true God?

A priest named Arius presented his argument that Jesus Christ was not an eternal being, that He was created at a certain point in time by the Father. Bishops such as Alexander and the deacon Athanasius argued the opposite position: that Jesus Christ is eternal, just like the Father is. It was an argument pitting trinitarianism against monarchianism.

Constantine prodded the 300 bishops in the council make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is. The statement of doctrine they produced was one that all of Christianity would follow and obey, called the “Nicene Creed.” This creed was upheld by the church and enforced by the Emperor. The bishops at Nicea voted to make the full deity of Christ the accepted position of the church. The Council of Nicea upheld the doctrine of Christ’s true divinity, rejecting Arius’s heresy. The council did not invent this doctrine. Rather, it only recognized what the Bible already taught.

The New Testament teaches that Jesus the Messiah should be worshipped, which is to say He is co-equal with God. The New Testament forbids the worship of angels (Colossians 2:18; Revelation 22:8, 9) but commands worship of Jesus. The apostle Paul tells us that “in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9; 1:19). Paul declares Jesus as Lord and the One to whom a person must pray for salvation (Romans 10:9-13; cf. Joel 2:32). “Jesus is God overall” (Romans 9:5) and our God and Savior (Titus 2:13). Faith in Jesus’ deity is basic to Paul’s theology.

John’s Gospel declares Jesus to be the divine, eternal Logos, the agent of creation and source of life and light (John 1:1-5,9); "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6); our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2); the Sovereign (Revelation 1:5); and the Son of God from the beginning to the end (Revelation 22:13). The author of Hebrews reveals the deity of Jesus through His perfection as the most high priest (Hebrews 1; Hebrews 7:1-3). The divine-human Savior is the Christian’s object of faith, hope, and love.

The Council of Nicea did not invent the doctrine of the deity of Christ. Rather, the Council of Nicea affirmed the apostles’ teaching of who Christ is—the one true God and the Second Person of the Trinity, with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

"Who was Constantine the Great?"

Answer: Constantine the Great (AD 280—337) was one of Rome’s most powerful and successful emperors and the first to self-identify as a Christian. He is known for his economic, political, and military achievements, as well as his religious reforms. Medieval writers praised him as the ideal ruler, against whom all kings were measured. Over time, his reign was viewed with waning enthusiasm. Historians also began to debate how committed Constantine was to Christianity or how devoutly he actually followed it. Constantine was influential in Christian history for his personal faith, religious politics, issuing the Edict of Milan, and calling the Council of Nicea.

Constantine was the son of a Roman official and his Christian concubine. This placed him in line to succeed the throne of the Western Roman Empire. At age 31, he prepared to attack his chief rival with an army outnumbered 4-to-1. Before the battle, Constantine claimed to have seen a vision of Jesus, with a specific symbol, telling him, “By this sign, conquer.” Constantine ordered his troops to mark their shields with this symbol, the Chi-Rho, then a symbol commonly representing Christianity. The Chi-Rho combines the first two letters in the Greek word for “Christ” and resembles a capital P with an X drawn through the spine. Constantine’s forces routed the enemy, and he became emperor. The Chi-Rho symbol would be part of Constantine’s personal signature for the rest of his life.

As emperor, Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, which declared Roman citizens free to worship whatever gods they chose. The Edict of Milan ended longstanding persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire. At that time, Constantine did not (yet) claim to be a Christian himself, nor did he advocate for an official state religion. Based on his continued use of certain pagan symbols, scholars believe Constantine’s early religion was generally theistic, rather than specifically Christian. His boldness in using Christian language grew during his reign. After assuming control of the entire Roman Empire, he built lavish churches and came to openly espouse Christianity.

During Constantine’s reign, controversy arose over the teachings of Arius, who denied the full divinity of Jesus. Constantine called a meeting of Christian bishops, the Council of Nicea, to settle the dispute. Contrary to popular myth, this meeting did not discuss the canon of the Bible, nor was Constantine influential in the council’s decisions. Emperors saw themselves as responsible for promoting “correct” forms of worship; Constantine’s interest was not to declare orthodoxy but to let the bishops determine it so that he could enforce it. Further, Constantine was not known for his philosophical ability and found himself lost in deeper discussions of theology. Rather, he acted as the council’s mediator and host, roles at which he excelled.

Constantine’s Christian faith has frequently been critiqued, if not questioned outright. On one hand, he made great strides in securing political and social rights for Christians and initiating general humanitarian reforms. He poured time and money into building churches and publicly supporting Christianity. Particularly toward the end of his reign, Constantine vocally professed faith in Christ and credited his success to God. He was baptized shortly before his death, according to the common practice of his time.

On the other hand, Constantine continued many pagan practices, including veneration of the sun. His interest in Christian orthodoxy was motivated primarily by a desire to maintain social order. There are also reasons to suspect that Constantine was as ruthless toward rivals as prior emperors had been. One of his sons, a brother-in-law, and his second wife were executed for reasons still unknown. He freely blended pagan practices with Christian beliefs, leading scholars to suggest his public adoption of Christianity might have been a savvy political move, linking him to a rising social force in the Roman Empire.

Ultimately, whether Constantine was a committed Christian, a shrewd, Christian-friendly politician, or something in between is an open question. Without doubt, he ended centuries of persecution and greatly enhanced the social standing of Christianity. He committed resources to churches and Christian education, and his leadership helped to clarify important Christian doctrines. However, Constantine’s actions resulted in some negative complications. Free from persecution, the church naturally attracted more false converts. The melding of Christian themes with secular politics set a pattern that contributed to later disasters such as the Inquisition and the Crusades. Constantine’s blending of pagan, building-and-priest-centered worship with Christianity also contributed to the rise of Roman Catholicism.

Constantine’s legacy is complex and not wholly understood, but he stands as one of the dominant figures in Christian history. Without doubt, his influence transformed Christianity from a persecuted minority into the eventual state religion of the Roman Empire and the most widespread faith in history.

tomakint:


You need to study this then;

Thanks I have read it, But I stand by my conviction

Reading and reading over and over again this hot topic, I keep wondering why many contributors here except for few are not coming up with concrete and convincing proofs from the Bible why the Doctrine of Trinity should be supported by all Christians because so far, I am yet to be convinced that it is Biblical.

tomakint:
God is Supreme and He Alone Is One but how come some Christians call Jesus God When the Bible never said so. Below is my take with references from the Holy Scriptures;

I Saw In The Night Visions, And, Behold, One Like The Son Of Man (Jesus Christ) Came With The Clouds Of Heaven, And Came To The Ancient Of Days (God Almighty Father, Yahweh), And They Brought Him Near Before Him. (Daniel 7: 13)
The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, Which God (Yahweh, Jehovah) Gave Unto Him, To Shew Unto His Servants Things Which Must Shortly Come To Pass; And He Sent And Signified It By His Angel Unto His Servant John: (Revelation 1:1)

Jesus Said Unto Them, If God Were Your Father, Ye Would Love Me: For I proceeded Forth And Came From God (Yahweh); Neither Came I Of Myself, But He Sent Me. (John 8: 42) How Come Trinitarians Are Preaching Three Gods With Equal Powers And Strength When The Bible Never Said So. What Do You Believe? Bible Never Calls Jesus As God Almighty But Calls Him Only Begotten Son Of God Who Is Subservient To God Almighty And Was Sent By God To Redeem All Mankind To God Almighty By The Shedding Of His Precious Blood As Instructed By The Ancient Of Days.

I am of the opinion that reading the Bible under the influence of the Holy Spirit for a deeper understanding of the scriptures is necessary for enlightenment to the Word of God. Doctrines of Men Christ warned us about has taken over the Doctrines of Christ as established in Matthew 7: 1-28 in this modern age of information era of civilization

GoodMuyis:
The Doctrine of Trinity is not about the organization of Godhead in hierarchy but explaining the qualities each personality in the God head shares. Ex. All of them are eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, etc

Jesus declare that Him and the Father are one; this only explains the agreement they has together and can come to instant conclusions without contradicting each other.

Your definition on Trinity is the doctored one and that which I believe is the truth but the original definition of Doctrine of Trinity under the Constatine the Great direction says the three are of the same substance with co-equal powers, influence and forms. Do you agree to this?

ShadowFighter:
Then maybe you should try and explain John 1:1 to me.

Pls search for this on NL ,"Is Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?"
This topic exposes what is hidden...

Ratello:
Reading and reading over and over again this hot topic, I keep wondering why many contributors here except for few are not coming up with concrete and convincing proofs from the Bible why the Doctrine of Trinity should be supported by all Christians because so far, I am yet to be convinced that it is Biblical.

Ratello ,have U read "Is Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?". Pls search on NL & see for yourself. Shalom

The doctrine of trinity that can not stand logical and biblical test.
There is YAHWEH (The God), there is YAHSHUA (The Son). The Holy Spirit is just the spirit (breath and the power)of God, not a separate being.