jcross19:
what kumuyi is talking about is that we should not rebuke the government or the leader but keep quiet under the authorities that's what he was saying and Mr kumuyi have never condemned the killing of Fulani's for once. intact Mr kumuyi should keep quiet when they were calling Jonathan names where was he? is a shame to kumuyi.

Dont mind the heediot. This one stood silent when the insults on GEJ was pelted down from the South west, now cos Osibanjo his brother is involved he is speaking wubish. Are all the COCIN and EKWA members numbering over 5,000 killed by Buharis brothers and their church burnt not a part of the body of christ? who gave him the right to even tell Christians what to say or do, has he ever spoken against the slaughter of christians in the north ever? what a shame. This one has lost my respect.

obailala:
How can you not rebuke government? Where in the bible is that written and where did Kumuyi ask you not to criticise govt?

ah go and read the post again where is giving warning to his members. kumuyi was my model but from now on I have began to suspect him . any man who can't defend the defendless is an enemy of God . the whole world knew all these then one pastor that suppose to be mouth piece for the masses very shameful.

ledamaster:

dont mind the heediot. This man stood silent when the insukts were raong from the South west, now cos they haik and honour him he is speaking wubish. Are all the COCIN and EKWA members numbering over 5,000 killed by Buharis brothers and their church burnt not a part of the body of christ? what a shame. This one has lost my respect.

am telling you. I never see him or hear where he condemned the actions of book haram and Fulani's but is very smart to say all these trash.

That's it. Some believes they are critizing but in actual fact they are abusing meanwhile the Bible enjoined us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem

spot on! most of these satanic god of men are the reasons why demonic rulers goes Scot free with misrule / ill-treatment of the citizens!

religion is a major bane of the irredeemable shithole.

wealth25:

He did nothing wrong by visiting President Buhari pls.

What about that loud laughs?
When a man laughs, you know Na.

reyscrub:
Shehu sani no well at all, when a genuine man of God talk, someone of sani caliber should know that baba does not say you should not about them but that you should not heap a load of curse upon then ok

and u have made sense.

tiwiex:

Na because you never experience Fulani herdsmen or your family members. Go ask Kadaria Ahmed.

Don't worry, when it happens, pray for the president.

What family

CHRIST is my family!

Again, you can speak your mind; even criticize without attacking the person (the individual.)

Finally, whatever evil you wish me returns to you and your family. Amen.

reyscrub:
Shehu sani no well at all, when a genuine man of God talk, someone of sani caliber should know that baba does not say you should not about them but that you should not heap a load of curse upon then ok

So the killing and insecurities should continue

Genuine who?

GreatestA1:
Alright Sah. I don't argue the scriptures but if you are ready to learn, I will school you.

Turn your Bible to 2 Peter 2:10. There? Alright.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

From the very clear portion of the above scripture, those who despise government(which includes the president) and who are not are afraid to speak evil (that is attack) dignities(Leaders) are declared to be walkers in the flesh and it's attendant lust of uncleanness! They are not Christians.

The bible didn't stop there. It went further to adumbrate on the gravity of attacking leaders. Let's read verse 11 and 12.

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

The Bible, I portraying the enormity of the impropriety of attacking leaders, says even Angles as mighty and power as they are don't attack leaders(railing accusations against them).

I leave to see how the Bible severely censured those who attack dignities(Leaders)

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

First and foremost criticizing and despising are two different things. You can criticize someone and not speak evil of them. You can criticize the actions of someone and not hate them but when you despise someone, you have hatred for them and what pertains about them whether good or bad. From the Bible we are encouraged to expose the deeds of darkness

Eph. 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.


as you can see through the scriptures Jesus rebuked the pharisees, Nathan did same for David,Samuel for King Saul, Elijah rebuked Ahab. Take note that these men spoke against evil. From the scriptures christian are not encouraged to attack the government rather we should pray


1Tim 2:1-3Therefore I [a]exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [b]authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and [c]reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior


but that does mean christians are to keep silent in the midst of evil especially when it is something that affects their neighbours. From thhe scriptures we are told to love our neighbours as we love ourselves

Mark 12:31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Then it is not wrong to take up the cause of the oppressed and speak up as far as it against evil works just as you can see in the scriptures below

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.


Prov. 31:9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.


Ps. 82: 3 Give justice to the poor and the orphan; uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.


So it is okay to speak up against evil works. It doesn't mean you have to hate the person or government. Therefore if the actions of the government are not causing the people to lead peacable lives is it right to keep silent?

Eccl. 3: 7 ...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak

Shehu sani no get sense, his bushy hair has robbed him of the ability to think sensibly... El-Rufai has killed him politically

Christian's should wake up and look at reality, Buhari doesn't read bible and his decisions has nothing to do with the bible, kumuyi stop quoting the bible to a man whose decisions affect millions of people. God has given us our own weapon which is to criticise constructively. I know kumuyi has not said anything about the numerous killings of Christians going on in the country ,he was in Aso rock the other day what did he tell Buhari?Buhari is a tribalist by birth and a dictator by training maybe kumuyi is not staying in Nigeria. I pray one day dis things will get to them so that they will start speaking out.

shehu or whatever you call yourself, dont ever open ur dirty mouth to tell pst. kumuyi what to preach ...re u a Christian? kumuyi is a pastor who preaches the bible and what he said is biblical...so shehu should stfu and stop pokenosing into Christian affair

wealth123:
You were there when he collected his own share? You call him a crook pastor? What crooked thing did he do? Just for preaching from the Bible? You better repent or you face the wrath of God. That man is not one of those fake pastors you can just talk about anyhow without repercussion.

Shut Up there... This thing
Which Bible was he preaching from... Prophets and Apostles in the Bible always criticize their rulers when they err.. Don't depend on others to read the Bible for you... Read it yourself..

Start from John the Baptist... He criticized a bad ruler until he lost his head for it.... It's in the Bible

Pastor Kumuyi, was nor talking to everybody, he was addressing ' true' believers and not church goers. Jesus didn't teach Christians to criticize our leaders, but to pray for them.

John 10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


2 Timothy 4. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


1. John 17:14-16 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.

2. John 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

With all critisms against our present and past leaders since military eras, what has it amounted to? It is better to change our tactics and start praying for them so we can get better results as True Christians:

1 Timothy 2:1-2 - I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Romans 13:1 - Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

1 Peter 2:17 - Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Jeremiah 29:7 - Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.

So Christians should know that even though we are in this world Christians are not of this world. Our true home is not in this sinful world it is in Heaven. Yes there are bad things in this world and yes there will be suffering, but believers can rest assured that there is a glorious Kingdom that awaits us. Be wise, don't allow hatred, bitterness, envy and other associated sins to sneak into your life unexpectedly.

GoodBoi1:


First and foremost criticizing and despising are two different things. You can criticize the actions of someone and not hate them but when you despise someone, you have hatred for them and what pertains about them whether good or bad. From the Bible we are encouraged to expose the deeds of darkness

Eph. 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.


as you can see through the scriptures Jesus rebuked the pharisees, Nathan did same for David,Samuel for King Saul. Take note that these men spoke against evil. From the scriptures christian are not encouraged to attack the government rather we should pray


1Tim 2:1-3Therefore I [a]exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [b]authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and [c]reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior


but that does mean christians are to keep silent in the midst of evil especially when it is something that affects their neighbours. From thhe scriptures we are told to love our neighbours as we love ourselves

Mark 12:31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Then it is not wrong to take up the cause of the oppressed and speak up against it as far as it against evil works just as you can see in the scriptures below

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.


Prov. 31:9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.


Ps. 82: 3 Give justice to the poor and the orphan; uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.


So it is never wrong to speak up against evil works. It doesn't mean you have to hate the person or government.

This is where I think you missed the point being made out. Kumuyi used the word "Attack" not "criticize" as against your misunderstanding. He didn't say don't "criticize!" He said don't attack!

Let's run a dictionary commentary on both words and the phrase(speak evil of)

What does it mean to attack someone?

According to the English Dictionary extracted from Wiktionary. org.

Attack means

"An attempt to detract from the worth or credibility of, a person, position, idea, object, or thing, by physical, verbal, emotional, or other assault."

What does it mean to speak evil of a leader? It means to detract from the worth of leader and bring down his position to a piece of bread vide verbal assault.

To attack and to speak evil of mean quite the same thing as they both make a leader seem worthless. That's what the Bible is against pursuant to 2 peter 2:10-12.

Now what does it mean to criticise?

"To evaluate (something), and judge its merits and faults; to find fault". It's crystal enough that criticism/finding fault is different from attack/speak evil of.


If I say the government's/president's action with respect to a particular subject is bad, I am criticising.

But if I say the President is stupid, an illiterate, baba go slow, evil etc, I am attacking and speaking evil of.

Please get the difference and edit your response.

Double post.

OmoAregbesola:
Kumuyi, D only true G.O I know, highly disciplined and spiritual. Unlike d fake thieves like Sule and COZA guy man, hypnotizing their gullibles ,milking d rich & d fucking d wives of d poor.

remember he said television according to his god was evil now his god has changed his view. Spiritual my foot

GreatestA1:
This is where I think you missed the point being made out. Kumuyi used the word "Attack" not "criticize" as against your misunderstanding. He didn't say don't "criticize!" He said don't attack!

Let's run a dictionary commentary on both words and the phrase(speak evil of)

What does it mean to attack someone?

"An attempt to detract from the worth or credibility of, a person, position, idea, object, or thing, by physical, verbal, emotional, or other assault."

What does it mean speak evil of a leader? It means to detract from the worth of leader and bring down his position to a piece of bread.

To attack and to speak evil of mean quite the same thing as they both make a leader seem worthless. That's what the Bible is against pursuant to 2 peter 2:10-12.

Now what does it mean to criticise?

"To evaluate (something), and judge its merits and faults; to find fault". It's crystal enough that criticism/finding fault is different from attack/speak evil of.


If I say the government's/president's action with respect to a particular subject is bad, I am criticising.

But if I say the President is stupid, an illiterate, baba go slow, evil etc, I am attacking and speaking evil of.

Please get the difference and edit tour response.

Can you provide any scripture where christians are instructed to not criticize the actions of leaders?

This was the exact question I asked you and your initial response showed you probably looked at it (criticism) from a negative point of view maybe because of the thread it was posted in. And that is my fear from about this kind of message. I agree that it is wrong to attack but it can be easily misinterpreted to mean to keep silent and don't criticize at all instead of speaking up against evil just as seen on the threads today e.g

https://www.nairaland.com/5221939/kumuyi-stop-attacking-president-buhari/1#78963271

It should be balanced instead

obailala:
Another slow brained tribalist vomits his nonsense. Who is a yoruba to you and what has this got to do with tribe?

Like I said before, nobody stops anybody from insulting anybody. But there's a difference between criticism and outright insult. The preacher simply quoted what's written in the bible. If what he said angers you so much, direct your anger to the God. And quit your foolish tribal nonsense; I'm an Igbo man.

Today you are Igbo and tomorrow you are from SS... continue

In the beginning, there was [please borrow me this word "ruler-ship"] , then we had totalitarianism, dictatorship, and so on, but nowadays, we enjoy democracy where you can voice out your opinion(freedom of speech).

Why the presidency is aware on this but our Pastor is not?

Please can someone lecture him on DEMOCRACY?

Jesuuuus!!!
If you no fear media, you try...

Am a member of deeper life and a huge critic of government Activities.

I was at the service and what he said is " do not attack leaders UNREASONABLY"

He did even mention the name of any politician

Baba Kumuyi nor get mate for Nigeria. The only holiness pastor worldwide still standing.. When Elijah speaks, Isreal shrieves ... If not Kumuyi, holiness would have depreciated in Nigeria. Na prosperity preachers we get now.
When Kumuyi speaks, Nigeria should listen. Baba is 78 June 6th. Hbday baba kumuyi in advance

Baba Kumuyi nor get mate for Nigeria. The only holiness pastor worldwide still standing.. When Elijah speaks, Isreal shrieves ... If not Kumuyi, holiness would have depreciated in Nigeria. Na prosperity preachers we get now.
When Kumuyi speaks, Nigeria should listen. Baba is 78 Jibe 6th. Hbday baba kumuyi in advance

GoodBoi1:


Can you provide any scripture where christians are instructed to not criticize the actions of leaders?

This was the exact question I asked you and your initial response showed you probably looked at it (criticism) from a negative point of view maybe because of the thread it was posted in. And that is my fear from about this kind of message. I agree that it is wrong to attack but it can be easily misinterpreted to mean to keep silent and don't criticize at all instead of speaking up against evil. It should be balanced instead

It's obvious your misunderstanding stemmed ab initio.

Go through my comments(most of which were quoted by other sobriquets and even you) and you will never see where I used the word "Criticise". The word I have kept using which is impsisima verba with the word used by Kumuyi is "Attack".

You were the one who misquoted me after reading my previous comments. Instead of asking "show me where the bible said we should not Attack", you erroneously used the word "criticise" which Kumuyi and I never said.(Check my comment you quoted when you asked that question). My response, nevertheless, was to buttress Kumuyi's assertion which I have been defending since 10pm - it is wrong to attack leaders.

I agree with your last paragraph of balancing the terms by explaining further. However, Kumuyi was obviously addressing educated folks who ought to know the difference between attacking and criticizing before punching their keypads to insult one of the unblemished men of God we can boast of in recent times!

Olatunji1929:
leave him baba has collected his own share from aso rock cabal why won't he defend useless bullhari when last did he enter market to buy something crook pastor

You don't even know Baba Kumuyi


He is not Adeboye, Oyedepo and others that collect money from govt. and politicians, go make your findings and prove me wrong.

Even as a Muslim, I still admire his teachings, He treat some topic like the Holy Qur'an ask usuto do.

Foodforthought:
Exactly the problem of the Church. No vision. No spiritual discernment. Utter blindness. No voice, no prophecy. No Spiritual revelation. No revival. No manifestation. No new move of God. Still stuck in same spot. Still relying in Yesterday's revivalists to plot tomorrow's revival for us. Kumuyi is a vessel...with his own dimension.... there are other vessels with their own dimensions. The Holy Spirit is not stereotyped. Instruct your own Sir, let others be instructed as well.
The Church must speak up against the Islamic threat and revolution facing it...it is instructed.

What effect does speaking against islamization have? It doesn't stop it neither will criticizing the president do. What will save us from such is not to curse anybody but to genuinely pray from a pure heart that every counsel of Ahitophel be turned to foolishness. We need not to panic if we are all genuine Christians. Most are just church goers. The prayer of a Righteous man availeth much. But we have majority as solely religious rather than spiritual. God should open our eyes and see that He is behind you as a mighty one. None shall make you afraid only if and only if you know your God.

lexy2014:


In this case, d guy is wrong. He might no b buying jet but he has just used his position to mislead d people in his care

If you were opportuned to attend the service, you would have been enlightened from the Infallible Word of God. The message was based on I Peter 2: 11- the end. Read it personally and I pray that the Holy Spirit will minister unto you. There you will understand that no one is being misled here if you doubtlessly believe the 'Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth' Bible. Unless you choose to give it another interpretation but that does not change the standard or truth of the Word of God.

frankyychiji:
Today you are Igbo and tomorrow you are from SS... continue

Oga, in the last 11 years that I've been active on this forum, Ive never in my life stated I am from anywhere else; and I wouldnt do that today over the nudgings of some silly tribalists whose brains cant reason beyond tribe in every single thing they do or say. If you're confusing me with someone else, that's your cup of tea.

SOFTENGR:
Wetin be Kumuyi own with Buhari?
Abeg leave him and Nigerians alone. That's the beauty of democracy. You yarn, I yarn, everybody yarn.

Abi bros Kumuyi don get alert?
Because alert dey make people yarn anyhow these days.

From the Bible passage which formed the bedrock of the message, we are ordered to even submit to anyone over us even when you perceive that they are saying what we think is wrong. Talk less of when the message was from the Word of God and you choose to say what pleases you. Just plead for mercy of God upon your life and repent and be converted

lexy2014:


That means Elijah should have left Ahab & Jezebel alone. Samuel should have left Saul alone

When you read the Bible, you will see that the scenario of Samuel, Elijah, Elisha among others being sent by God directly to this Kings. I believe that if God tell pastor Kumuyi tonight to go and warn our president of anything, he will not hesitate to meet the president. Have you prayed for the leader today? God sees the heart and will rise for His elects in this country.