The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only - Religion (4) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only (16366 Views)
Is Hell Real? What The Bible Says About Hell / Why Has Preaching About Hell Reduced In Churches? / How I Got Born-again (Christians Only) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (17) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 12:19pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Are many persons still holding on to the notion that the parable of the rich. Man and lazaruz is a real life story or it did actually happen?? The whole parable of the rich man and lazaruz was a parable indeed... 1. Because no one,not even abraham was in heaven when Jesus gave that parable.......because I know many here who hold on to the hell fire dogma believe that if the soul of one who is dead does not ascend to the heavenly abode it goes to roast in a fire for all eternity..... So it is my delight to tell you guys that no dead human was or had ascended to into the heavens when Jesus gave that parable... How do we know?? John 3:13...... American King James Version And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. .......... So literally thinking that lazarus was in Father abrahams bosom in the heavens would be false.....it was indeed a parable.... ....... 2. Also if that parable was to be taken literally then it must mean all rich persons would burn in hell fire.....why and how??. Because I still can't pin point what the rich man did to deserve eternal torment in a fiery Hell....... ...... Can any supporter of the hell fire dogma tell me what was the rich mans offence that would make him roast in a fiery HEll??...... 4 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 12:40pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
ijawkid: Are many persons still holding on to the notion that the parable of the rich. Man and lazaruz is a real life story or it did actually happen?? Someone who killed millions has only just started suffering in hell if he dies today, for example Hitler , while another man who stole a pin 5000 years ago is still in hell today burning  What arrant nonsense. The Luke 16 narrative is a Parable. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by CrazyMan(m): 1:40pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Nice of you to start this christian discussion Mr Anony...I can't believe I almost missed it. I would go with KJV... And below is my knowledge of God. His Holiness : God’s holiness is manifested at the Cross. Wondrously and yet most solemnly does the Atonement display God’s infinite holiness and abhorrence of sin. How hateful must sin be to God for Him to punish it to its utmost deserts when it was imputed to His Son! Not all the vials of judgment that have or shall be poured out upon the wicked world, nor the flaming furnace of a sinner’s conscience, nor the irreversible sentence pronounced against the rebellious demons, nor the groans of the damned creatures, give such a demonstration of God’s hatred of sin, as the wrath of God let loose upon His Son. Never did Divine holiness appear more beautiful and lovely than at the time our Saviour’s countenance was most marred in the midst of His dying groans. This Himself acknowledges. Because God is holy He hates all sin. He loves everything which is in conformity to His laws, and loathes everything which is contrary to it. His Word plainly declares, "The froward is an abomination to the Lord" (Prov. 3:32). And again, "The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord" (Prov. 15:26). It follows, therefore, that He must necessarily punish sin. Sin can no more exist without demanding His punishment than without requiring His hatred of it. God has often forgiven sinners, but He never forgives sin; and the sinner is only forgiven on the ground of Another having borne his punishment; for "without shedding of blood is no remission" (Heb. 9:22). Therefore we are told, "The Lord will, take vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserveth Wrath for His enemies" (Nahum 1:2). For one sin God banished our first parents from Eden. For one sin all the posterity of Ham fell under a curse which remains over them to this day (Gen. 9:21). For one sin Moses was excluded from Canaan, Elisha’s servant smitten with leprosy, Ananias and Sapphira cut off out of the land of the living. His attitude to sin: God hates sin...I believe that God's attitued towards sin can be found in my first post. [b]what manner of punishment awaits a sinner after physical death: [/b]well...Similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers (sinners) also would to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24). Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36). Thank you. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 2:09pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
truthislight: |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Image123(m): 2:21pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
aaaaaaaaargggg, some posts here want to make me vomit, aaaaaaaargh. We never saw it in this fashion, aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggg. God is a merciful God oh. well, hope i don't get to write some long treatise. To start with, i don't need a re-introduction. Who is God, God is my Father, my personal Papa, my sky Daddy if you please. Yesssss ooh, God is my Heavenly Father. Hmmm, i get that feeling in my tongue that you guys don't want to hear all that. Okay, let me write what you want to hear. God is a good God, and God is a Holy God. These are some of His wonderful attributes. With respect to this discussion, these seem like the two attributes to focus on. i think that the whole discussion is encapsulated in this verse below, Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. To BEHOLD is to consider, understand, notice. Many fail to behold, and end up in unsavory extremities. We need to observe, we need to actually see that God is BOTH a good God and a holy God. Goodness and Severity. Atheists and other unbelievers love to droll on the severity, while bigoted christains love to cherry pick His goodness. But God is a good God, and a holy God. Everyone involved in this discuss needs to behold this. God is good to sinners and saints, giving us rain and sun and this and that, fine. He even gave us His only begotten Son, and all things richly to enjoy. But God is a holy God. He is of pure eyes, pure everything. He cannot and does not condone sin in anybody. His holiness is the premise for His severity, and yes, God is severe, strict, stern, harsh. Some quick facts on the severity of God apart from that inferred in Romans 11v22 are, 1. He dislodged Adam and Eve from Eden for eating. 2. He did not allow Moses to lead Israel into Canaan for hitting. 3. He punished Uzzah for touching the Ark. 4. He ordered that a man be killed for gathering sticks. Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 5. He killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying. 6. He is to be feared, says Jesus. Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 7. He is a consuming fire. Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. It is this Holy nature that makes Him judge sin wherever it is found and in whoever. Even Jesus the Christ, the beloved Son in whom God is well pleased was not spared. When He bore the sins on the cross, He experienced something He had never ever experienced before, the judgement of God. Psa 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. But Thou art holy. He is good but holy. To Him, sin is worse than a virus. Sin cannot come to Him, that's why a good sinner cannot make the kingdom of God. It's like if a file has a virus. What suddenly matters is the corruption of the file, not the size or the type of file. A file might be 300GB or just 6KB. It may be a video file or a doc. file. Whatever, from abroad, from original flash, or silicon valley hard disk. if is corrupt, it is corrupt. you don't want it connected to your system. It's similar with God and sin. If there is sin in your nature or in your action, it matters not if you are the world's greatest or richest, or poorest. The sinner cannot enter the kingdom of God. Except a man be born again, he cannot enter. Jesus said, "Marvel not", don't be surprised. The Bible says OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS BEFORE GOD.. how much more our sins! It is only God that can make us truly holy. We are not hopeless if we come to Him. 1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. All that God does come still come from a perfect heart of goodness. Unfortunately, our minds and reasonings are small compared to this eternal truth. It's like an animal trying to fully understand a man and his actions. They are not exactly in the same class. Yet God is far greater than man. I need to say that 'HELL' is an expression of not just God's holiness, but also of God's love. That's some tough statement to wrap one's head around. God made hell to punish offenders. i don't know of a good city or county without a prison. Offenders need to be punished, else a good city will be turned into utter chaos in no time. A good government must have an efficient law ENFORCING agency. There ought to be respect for the rule of law. It is these 'values' that produce HELL. Absolute Holiness demands that God should keep His Word and judge sin, hence the wrath of God. The Bible plainly teaches that God is angry with the wicked. Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: God's wrath is severe. It took just one sin from Adam to separate Him from God. Even Jesus who said my Father is with me. When sin was on Jesus, He cried. He, for the first time referred to the Father as my God. That's how grave judgement is. John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Hell is basically to be forsaken by God. That, ithink, is the one truly God forsaken place or state. Jesus prayed for to be spared this even. Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; The death He feared was separation from God, not the three days expedition where He was busy leading captivity captive, and making a open show of the devil's defeat. of the three days, He had said Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. He said I lay it down of myself. This was not the cup He wanted to pass over Him. This was what He lived for, He lived to die. Joh 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Separation from God was His issue, that was what He feared. God is Life. Anything outside God is death, dead. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. This is why He uttered puzzling statements such as these Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. In God's view point, in God's dictionary/lexicon, anyone that has God has life. The doctor's report does not matter. Anyone that does not have God does not have life. It does not matter if the whole world thinks you are alive. 1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son 1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. The one that has life never dies, even when men are mourning gone too soon. The Bible says he is not dead. It is the sinner that is dead, even before his death. The believer 'sleeps' as it were. Anyone that does not belong to God is already dead or separated from God. The soul that sins will die, and all have sinned. that's why we are all on the path of eternal damnation by default. it is only Jesus that can save us from this wrath to come. the wrath is an exercise of judgement on all sinners. This is getting longer than i planned, i may have to talk on 'hell' later, sorry. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:30pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
^^^^^ Try and sound coherent in your argument and make your points concise and easily readable , your statement above is very scattered and almost impossible to understand. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 2:33pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
When a statement like this is Made dont you think there should be scriptural backing to supper it? CrazyMan: can you show/cite a portion that say that the dead will be in a holding place while they awaited judgement? You cant and should not teach what the bible did not say, and as such i desire that you quote the bible to give it a backing, other wise it cant be said that it is a bible based teaching. Please, cite where the bible says that the dead will wait a live for judgement day in a "holding tank" or whatever. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:33pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
The question we should be asking is ; When a person dies , is he dead or is another part of him existing somewhere. Can a person exist outside his body and if yes, can you support this by scripture, no parables please ! 2 Likes |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Antivirus92(m): 2:45pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel:just the same thing, a student will pick up a chemistry text book and go through it from page one to the last. And later another student who read her/his jotter will take the first position in that same class where as the text book-reader is only found on the weak pass category. Reason,the text book reader cannot make anything out from what she read, and she won't listen to her/his teacher either because she believed in her text book. At the end of the day,she gathers nothing and fail even though she can quote all the laws in the text book. Orally she/he is good but pratically, a failure. The girl that read her jotter was able to read the text book,listen to the teacher and then was able to jot things down in her/his own language,which means she/he understood every bit of the lesson. That's the DIFFERENCE between the catholic and other churches. Catholic making their doctrine out from the bible teachings and using the bible teachings to discover unrecorded facts about God and nature. Where as other pentecostal churches deceive themselves by cramming the bible verse by verse. Atlast they don't know God and their mentality about sticking to the bible ALONE won't let them study harder about God. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 2:52pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Antivirus92: . Catholic making their doctrine out from the bible teachings and using the bible teachings to discover unrecorded facts about God and nature. Where as other pentecostal churches deceive themselves by cramming the bible verse by verse. Atlast they don't know God and their mentality about sticking to the bible ALONE won't let them study harder about God. Not quite so. Their teachings are based on 90% tradition and 10% bible. Trust me, I was in that institution for many years and even had a leadership position for a time. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 3:04pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel: The question we should be asking is ;ecclesiastes 12 vs 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it the bolded means another part is existing somewhere. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:05pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel: The question we should be asking is ; it beats my imagination that all this people takes a pareble and form a theology around it and attempt painting God black. How many of you can put you son, daughter, mother, father's hand on an oven for any sin at all let alone to put their hand in fire for a sin that they inherited from another person? "The gift that God gives is life" Romans 6:23. All that God says he will do is collect the life from all those that refuses to accept it and that is death, a none existance just like the person was a none existance person befor he was born. From dust to dust GENESIS 3:19 befor Adam was created from dust he was not existing any where and when he goes back to that state he will not exist any where. That is what death is Ecclesiates 9:5,6,10. The bible says that God is love James 4:8 "he that does not love has not come to know God because God is love" May we have the fear of God and not attribute eternal torment to God as though he has something particular we give to him other than he simply created us to enjoy life and benefit from him by obeying/worshiping him and not make mistake, just like a good father will want his children to listen to them for their children benefit. God is love. Peace |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:11pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Antivirus92: just the same thing, a student will pick up a chemistry text book and go through it from page one to the last. And later another student who read her/his jotter will take the first position in that same class where as the text book-reader is only found on the weak pass category. Reason,the text book reader cannot make anything out from what she read, and she won't listen to her/his teacher either because she believed in her text book. At the end of the day,she gathers nothing and fail even though she can quote all the laws in the text book. Orally she/he is good but pratically, a failure. The girl that read her jotter was able to read the text book,listen to the teacher and then was able to jot things down in her/his own language,which means she/he understood every bit of the lesson. That's the DIFFERENCE between the catholic and other churches. Catholic making their doctrine out from the bible teachings and using the bible teachings to discover unrecorded facts about God and nature. Where as other pentecostal churches deceive themselves by cramming the bible verse by verse. Atlast they don't know God and their mentality about sticking to the bible ALONE won't let them study harder about God. your own matter is very simple since you have stated that you based your beliefs outside of the bible. Antivirus92:^^^ Good for you. This is a bible based discuss. Since to you the prophet of God and the apostle of christ did not know what God's plans are and you needed info else where. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by truthislight: 3:21pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
obadiah777: ecclesiastes 12 vs 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it what? Cant you read what you quoted ? Is the spirit of God your property now? God just use his spirit to kick start Adam and when that life source that belongs to God leaves the man dies. Psalm 146:4. The electric power you use from the power authority is theirs to give and when they take power the appliances does not travel to their power station. Holy spirit is God's power and when it is not keeping man alive it goes back to God. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by CrazyMan(m): 3:48pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
truthislight: When a statement like this is Made dont you think there should be scriptural backing to supper it?I gave a passage luke 16:24...it proved that the dead was actually kept in a hilding place pending the final punishment. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 3:51pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
truthislight:your spirit is a part of you. the question was 'is there a part of you that will exist apart from your body after you die '. the body does not exist alone. so the spirit is a part of you that will exist after you die. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by LordReed(m): 4:00pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel: @Lord_Reed. It matters not what we call it. The crux of the matter is that it exists and those who God will appoint to it will experience its torment. As I already stated, the torment is not fire as we know it else the rich man would not make that request. Recall the burning bush Moses saw? It was on fire but it was not consumed. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 4:11pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
CrazyMan: I just asked some few questions as regards that parable and till now I still haven't gotten answers....... What did the rich man do to deserve the penalty of roasting in a fire?? And who is the Father abraham??was he in heaven?? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Antivirus92(m): 4:17pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
truthislight:poor you! The catholic doctrine is based on the bible. Let me tell you, you people are like pharisees of the old. You follow the bible strictly and you fail to understand that the bible is for man and not man for bible. You ignoramus should know that the scripture is flexible and not as rigid as you make it to look. If the scripture is rigid then mary magdalene should have been stoned to death according to the scripture. The catholic doctrine is based 90% on the bible. Do you know how many years it takes the vatican council(bible philosophers) to make out a single doctrine? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Antivirus92(m): 4:23pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel:and if God is to stand before you,you will swear that the few years you were a catholic that their teachings is mainly outside the bible? You pentecostals can lie alot, i'm not surprise. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 4:25pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Lord_Reed: No Sir. It is either the fire is literal as Jesus stated or it is not. You cannot pick and choose some parts of the parable as literal and others as not. We have to be consistent here. Btw what is the rich man's name ? What does the burning bush have to do with this ? Or should we start looking for fire all over the bible and qualify these occurrences as evidence to support your bogus hell ? God is a consuming fire, and just because the bush Moses saw was not consumed does not mean God's fire will not consume his enemies. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 4:27pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
obadiah777: your spirit is a part of you. the question was 'is there a part of you that will exist apart from your body after you die '. the body does not exist alone. so the spirit is a part of you that will exist after you die. Sir, the spirit is not yours , it is GOD's breath !! When you die, God takes it back , period. "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." - Genesis 2:7 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 4:30pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
obadiah777: ecclesiastes 12 vs 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it No. It states clearly that the spirit or breath of GOD returns back to him. ruach: breath, wind, spirit Original Word: ר֫וּחַ Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: ruach Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh) Short Definition: spirit |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Antivirus92(m): 4:33pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
frosbel: ^^^^^this is exactly how we know ignorant and unrepentant people. Fanatics! |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 4:34pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
Antivirus92: this is exactly how we know ignorant and unrepentant people. Fanatics! I have no problems with you standing up for your catholic brothers  |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Image123(m): 5:14pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
It is unfortunate when frosb fails to read Now that is out of the way, Let's set some ground rules here: Well then, on to what manner of punishment awaits a sinner after physical death. IT IS HELL oh. Or more aptly put, HELL FIRE. Hell fire is also referred to as the lake of fire. It is a different from 'hell' which is more general. There are different hells like there are different heavens. The context should guide the reader. God commends that we study the Word of God, so that we can rightly divide the Word. it is possible and popular to wrongly divide the Word. Read it precept upon precept, line upon line, read it with Spirit of course. Don't just read like a dogmatist or a hypocrite. Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. Bread in the Bible may not be the bread you know. Meat may not be the meat you know. Words have context, words can change in meaning. And a word can have different meaning. Most bible translators have given and sacrificed time, years of research, deep study and learning, honesty and integrity to give us the various translations we have today. Only ingrates and unthankful folks come whining about my translation is holier than yours. 2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, d[b]espisers of those that are goo[/b]d, 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. Jesus and the apostles also read 'imperfect' translations. They write to pick holes or snide on the lifes of translators. they didn't complain of dubiousities of spellings and change of phrases or remixed names. They were Spirit-led. The words 'sheol', 'hades' and 'gehenna' are translated as hell most times. This majorly refers to the abode of the dead, or the grave. But there is another hell which is not the grave, it is hell fire or the lake of fire. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Not too surprising that only Jesus largely spoke of hell fire, He made it, remember? this hell fire is not the grave or coffin where every physically dead person is put. Else, He would not be giving strong warnings about it. This hell fire is the hell that God can cast one into. Not undertaker, undertaker can put a person in hell(grave), but it is God that can cast one into hell(hell fire/lake of fire) Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Note that 'hell' is also used here, but the context tells that its not the grave. it is the lake of fire, prepared for the devil and his crew members. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: The above passage teaches that this hell fire/lake of fire/everlasting fire is not yet open. We never commission am. It says Then. Then, at the judgement, that is. You may read up the passage as to that. Other scriptures corroborate that no one is there yet. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath r[b]eserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. [/b] Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. Hell fire is a terrible place. it is more terrible and powerful than satan the devil. It will hold and restrain satan forever. It is a place of wrath. The time is coming, it is not yet. So nobody is currently in hell fire or lake of fire. Meanwhile, like the grave and the lake of fire, there are other places that are generalised as 'hell'. There is a place of darkness where some spirits are kept. Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. There is a bottomless pit that can conveniently hold the devil for a thousand years. Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, All these places are not as serious and hellish as hell fire. hell fire swallows hell and death. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. These above alone ought to show that hell is quite over simplified in the scriptures, one may be threading on a thin line if we are too narrow minded in its definitions. Hell fire is the final destination of all sinners. Now, like we have the spiritually networked universal church, and the networked kindgom of Heaven, i believe there is also the networked place of torment, a temporary 'hell', for lack of names to call it. 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; This 'hell' is different from the lake of fire, and from the grave if you have been following this writing, you may understand. This is where all hell brakes loose. Its not a very organised prison methinks. this is where the sinner first stops at when he dies. This is a place of outer darkness and sorrow. i'll continue latar. 1 Like |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by CrazyMan(m): 5:16pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
ijawkid: I just asked some few questions as regards that parable and till now I still haven't gotten answers.......Try reading a second time...and I believe you would understand it much better. I was a parable... [b] Luke 16:19-31. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. [/b] |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by ijawkid(m): 5:34pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
CrazyMan: Your point?? What did the rich man do that should make him burn for all eternity in hell fire.....?? Answer me... I've read those verses and still can't pin point what the rich man did to roast in a fire..... And it seems that from this parable(literally speaking) all poor persons and beggars will go to heaven....abi?? |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 5:43pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
CrazyMan: And you base an entire theology of eternal torment, existing hell and an immortal soul on this one passage ? Lord help us. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by brainpulse: 5:50pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
ijawkid: Because you have seen yourself as to question God's judgement. Was Christ capable of knowing what really happened after death? YES Was He capable of knowing what happened doing the time of Moses? YES- because he knew what was going to happened to him even after His death. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 5:52pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
brainpulse: Dear Sir, what did Christ say will happen after death. Kindly explain. I promise to respond with scriptural support. Thank You. |
| Re: The Wrath Of God: Discussion About Hell - Strictly Christians Only by Nobody: 5:55pm On Oct 22, 2012 |
I have two questions for the house. Is MAN an immortal soul ? When MAN dies and his spirit returns to GOD as the wisest King on earth Solomon said, is there any other part of him that goes to somewhere unmentioned ? 1 Like |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (17) (Reply)
I Am No Longer A Theist / RCCG 70th Annual Convention; Perfect Jubilee, August 8-14, 2022 / Leke Adeboye: Politicians Become Strong Church Members When Election Is Near
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 174 |