mazaje:

Where did you see me say it leads to there is no god?. . .Learn to read and understand things. . . .

lol. What does atheism means?

You said that you are an atheist, why should i be the one to give you the implication for that?
Or, is your calling yourself an atheist and not knowing the implication having to do with my "not reading and understanding"?

Was the tag you bear "atheism" meant to be a fad for you?

*sigh*

*infants!*

truthislight:

how do you mean? Shade more light to your big claim up there.

Dont you think for a complex entity like you to exist it calls for more than mere chance?



a house is less complex than you. No?

But you are willing to accept the notion of a designer for a house you accidentally meet at the centre of the forest even though you find no person around claiming to be the builder, however, you are unwilling to accept the notion of a designer for you brain and person, why and how? .

Your brain and the house which has the remotest possibility of appearing by chance?



error!
The chances that a squeezed piece of paper at certain conditions can get deformed and become squeezed due to the forces of nature is very realistic and plausible.

But your brain, coming by chance? Please explain how?




do you also have the experience of the causality of your brain?
^^^ please explain.



your words!

I belief the house you live in came by chance, if not, i smell delusion.

If you read my post at all, I addressed this issue, that man made designs are recognised due to experience. A house in the middle of a forest will be said to be man made because all houses are built by men. Same with a birdnest, if I see a birdnest in a forest, I'd know by experience that a bird built it and not a monkey ( they are incredibly intelligent too). Same with a beaver's dam.

But the water cycle right before us, works its cyclical magic is the hallmark of Nature. No man or monkey or bird is responsible for it. Same with volcanos and river formations.

Who makes brains? Humans don't manufacture em. They are developed naturally. And in all species that have them, the brains develop naturally. So Nature takes credit for that.

answer the questions above underwise know that your type is true to the book of Psalm(and you know what it says i suppose?)



"where ever there is intelligence, there is a mind, Where ever there is a mind there is a person".

Am guessing you are not aware of that ^^^



your limitation my friend.

It is called "common sense", i guess it is not that common anyway.(that is why Psalms calls such kind persons FOOLs)

Modern Mainframe computers are intelligent, do you think they are persons as a result? What if they were designed to produce intelligent effects??

with your limitation in knowledge i guess you dont have the full gist.
Well, arrogant "types" dont learn, neither do they ask questions.
they claim to know all.

You didn't answer my claim. You only claimed superior knowledge.

befor the advent of christianity and Islam, normal humans without mental problem say there is God and they have no need for the bible or q'uran to teach them about this "ultimate reality".
but you, without a contrary evidence have presumptiousely said "there is no God"
how?

This is irrelevant. What common ppl say, is left to their sentiments.

with your "type", that ^^ should be obvious.



What has that ^^ to do with the claim that "there is no God" ?

How did you proved that ^ to yourself if not delusion?

You have no answers?? The truth remains God is a claim of the theist.

^^^^

Avoiding my question , aye

Since thehomer cannot respond, let me try you , my good pal

Question : How did the process of respiration start and how does this support either evolution or the source of our existence.

Describe your findings in detail and do not leave any room for ambiguity.

thanks !

^^^

They can't answer , and these are our atheists who alone possess reason and logic ?

frosbel: ^^^^

Avoiding my question , aye

Since thehomer cannot respond, let me try you , my good pal

Question : [size=18pt]How did the process of respiration start and how does this support either evolution or the source of our existence.[/size]

Describe your findings in detail and do not leave any room for ambiguity.

thanks !

Your question shows that you are dubious and have nothing to offer.

1) You ask a question only answerable (if eventually answerable) by evolutionary biology. How this irony escapes you, I dont know

2) You ask a question that is quite beyond current scientific knowledge, just to insert God of the gaps

3) You are no different from Uyi Iredia who was given an argument of morality from evolution and logic. He had nothing to argue, then he started asking questions like; when did the brain start to understand morality?

frosbel: ^^^

They can't answer , and these are our atheists who alone possess reason and logic ?

The answer to that question or non-answer doesnt prove God. You frame a question that is nearly impossible to answer so that you can fit in God of the gaps.

This is Anonyism 101. Shameless and desperate tactics.

How would one truly know when respiration truly started?

Logicboy03:


The answer to that question or non-answer doesnt prove God. You frame a question that is nearly impossible to answer so that you can fit in God of the gaps.

This is Anonyism 101. Shameless and desperate tactics.

How would one truly know when respiration truly started?

We are not the ones claiming all knowledge, reason and logic.

I understand how it works from a basic level and believe that GOD designed the process.

However , atheists dispute the facts, therefore I am only asking that they provide us with an alternative option on how it all started and morphed into what it is today.

Surely you guys have factual evidence, or maybe not , or possibly faith that it exploded into existence ??

frosbel:

We are not the ones claiming all knowledge, reason and logic.

I understand how it works from a basic level and believe that GOD designed the process.

However , atheists dispute the facts, therefore I am only asking that they provide us with an alternative option on how it all started and morphed into what it is today.

Surely you guys have factual evidence, or maybe not , or possibly faith that it exploded into existence ??

Abeg, you have nothing. Which fact has any atheist here rejected? Atheists dont claim to know everything, we just have a logical stance on God- no evidence, no reason to believe.

Logicboy03:


Your question shows that you are dubious and have nothing to offer.

1) You ask a question only answerable (if eventually answerable) by evolutionary biology. How this irony escapes you, I dont know

2) You ask a question that is quite beyond current scientific knowledge, just to insert God of the gaps

3) You are no different from Uyi Iredia who was given an argument of morality from evolution and logic. He had nothing to argue, then he started asking questions like; when did the brain start to understand morality?

Logicboy03:


Abeg, you have nothing. Which fact has any atheist here rejected? Atheists dont claim to know everything, we just have a logical stance on God- no evidence, no reason to believe.

Ah okay, so your beef is with GOD not facts ?

So if there is no evidence for GOD , what is your evidence for naturalism ?

Or is it not hypocritical to accuse others of not having fact when you also do not have any facts ?

At best , the atheist position can only anchor on the shaky ground of scientific hypothesis, no ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaqmGGOZbeY

All, please watch this beautiful 3 minute video.

1000 likes to it.

frosbel:

Ah okay, so your beef is with GOD not facts ?

So if there is no evidence for GOD , what is your evidence for naturalism ?

Or is it not hypocritical to accuse others of not having fact when you also do not have any facts ?

At best , the atheist position can only anchor on the shaky ground of scientific hypothesis, no ?

What nonsense are you saying?


Only a dumbazz would ask for evidence for naturalism. It would be like asking for the evidence of Nairaland right now. nature is all around you. Physical things are all around you. You live your life based on physical things that you can measure and use your five sense to understand

Logicboy03:




What nonsense are you saying?


Only a dumbazz would ask for evidence for naturalism. It would be like asking for the evidence of Nairaland right now. nature is all around you. Physical things are all around you. You live your life based on physical things that you can measure and use your five sense to understand

So there is no source of anything , everything just happened to start from nothing ?

frosbel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaqmGGOZbeY

All, please watch this beautiful 3 minute video.

1000 likes to it.

Wow, promoting the fraud William Craig?


Did you listen to the video? Or you just supported the question and William craig without listening to the atheist?

The atheist gave both a philosphical and evolutionary answer to the question- our reasoning gives us an advantage for survival, we evolved it a brain capapble of reasoning mostly due to natural selection.


William Craig denied this basic truth and claimed that the atheist claim focuses on survival not truth. William Craig is a fool because human truth is survival, we base most of our actions on survival, it is our first biological priority and our basic instinct. We then hone this basic instinct with logic and reasoning.


Now why is smoking bad? It kills- survival
Why is washing your hands good? To avoid germs and diseases that will kill us- survival

frosbel:

So there is no source of anything , everything just happened to start from nothing ?

Foolish question. Try again

Kay 17 we need you here, appears Logicboy cannot help you out with this one , lol.

frosbel: Kay 17 we need you here, appears Logicboy cannot help you out with this one , lol.

Go troll somewhere else.

Like I said, you have nothing.

Logicboy03:


Foolish question. Try again

Foolish question when it suits you ?

Foolish question when you are tripped by a difficult but valid question, lol.

You guys should form a comedy series, you will get a 5 star rating, trust me

frosbel:

Foolish question when it suits you ?

Foolish question when you are tripped by a difficult but valid question, lol.

You guys should form a comedy series, you will get a 5 star rating, trust me

Wow, you cant see past your own nonsense;

frosbel:

So there is no source of anything , everything just happened to start from nothing ?

1) There is no source of anything? ---how is this not foolish?
2) Everything just happened to start from nothing? ------is that the atheist position or a strawman you pulled out of your a--?

Logicboy03:


Go troll somewhere else.

Like I said, you have nothing.

aww, poor Logicboy, this is where his knowledge stops when you start asking reasonable questions to which he has no clue talk less of answers.

Again , is it not hypocrisy to accuse others of believing in skydaddy when you guys believe in the most Illusionary and fallacious concept called naturalism with no facts, no proofs , just random hypotheses based on the whims , prejudices and god-hatred of your so called atheist scholars.

Jokers y'all.

Lol.

bunching all issues together and posting selective replies.

Kay 17:

If you read my post at all,

what is the meaning of this ^^ ?

The actual deceitful nature of people is beginning to show in this forum.

Endeavouring to maligned someone with such statement.

I addressed your post line by line while you simply bunch mine and made some statement that does not addressed all of my post.

Kay 17:
I addressed this issue, that man made designs are recognised due to experience.

so you are saying from experience things are usually design right?

Take note of that ^ in the instance you start cherry picking.

Kay 17:
A house in the middle of a forest will be said to be man made because all houses are built by men.

^^
Good.
Can you mention intelligent things that come up by accident/chance, so that we can take that as a precedent?
Afteral, you said that we learn from experience.

Kay 17:
Same with a birdnest, if I see a birdnest in a forest, I'd know by experience that a bird built
it and not a monkey

beautiful, from experience, intelligent things are designed.

And for your information, birds and animal operate on instincts, but still, they are intelligently made and life always comes from life.

Learn from nature.

Kay 17:
But the water cycle right before us, works its cyclical magic is the hallmark of Nature.

do you mean they obey the law of nature?
Yes they do.
But the law did not set itself does it? No.

Kay 17:
Who makes brains?

you should tell me!
We agreed that bird nest was made by the bird, but the brain? (do you say chance?)

let your conscience judge you that the brain came by chance.

Kay 17:
Humans don't manufacture em.(brain)

do human manufacture things having life and blood? No, does that then means that things having life and blood came by chance? Judge for yourself.

Kay 17:
They are developed naturally.

what do you mean by nature?

That "nature" that is far more intelligent than you? That "nature" that design your brain? Did you call it blind?

Let your conscience judge you.

Kay 17:
And in all species that have them, the brains develop naturally.

what is "nature" my friend?
This nature That design your brain what is it?
Hmmm!

Kay 17:
So Nature takes credit for that.

does that make sens to you?
This "nature" and its disasters that are merciless, and your brain can predict it, did It designed your brain?
Na wao!

Kay 17:
Modern Mainframe computers are intelligent,

they dont have freewill, no "life", they are programmed.

Btw, did it come by chance? Was it not designed?

Seeing such imediately tells you it has a designer, why not your brain that designed it?

Kay 17:
do you think they are persons as a result?

it does not have a mind of its own no freewill.

Kay 17:
What if they were designed to produce intelligent effects??

they are not person.

Kay 17:
This is irrelevant. What common ppl say, is left to their sentiments.

what evidence do you have to the contrary, that there is no God?

Kay 17:
You have no answers?? The truth remains God is a claim of the theist.

what evidence do you have that there is no God?

Feel free to try and claim atheism is irrational here

https://www.nairaland.com/1164040/3-reasons-why-theism-irrational

@truthlight

Your responses were incoherent and repetitive. About 5 of the same answers to diff issues.

You didn't seem to understand I'm saying because you keep repeating the same thing over and over and meddling issues. For example the mainframe example was meant to show how difficult it is to prove consciousness of another person, rather you dived in with who created the computer!

I will repeat myself again, the causal factors for structural complexity are known by experience. Man made complexities can easily be recognized as we are familiar with them. Namely cars, planes, ships. On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

Now to claim natural complexities are man made is ridiculous because such is contrary to our familiarity and experience.

You get me?

Kay 17: @truthlight

Your responses were incoherent and repetitive. About 5 of the same answers to diff issues.

You didn't seem to understand I'm saying because you keep repeating the same thing over and over and meddling issues. For example the mainframe example was meant to show how difficult it is to prove consciousness of another person, rather you dived in with who created the computer!

I will repeat myself again, the causal factors for structural complexity are known by experience. Man made complexities can easily be recognized as we are familiar with them. Namely cars, planes, ships. On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

Now to claim natural complexities are man made is ridiculous because such is contrary to our familiarity and experience.

You get me?

Same problem here. No way to respond to such garbled chatter.

yes, the issue is on the evidence you have for the none existence of a God.

If you dont have evidence to show that God does not exist, i dont see the rationality for the claim that: "there is no God"

Kay 17: @truthlight

Your responses were incoherent and repetitive. About 5 of the same answers to diff issues.

You didn't seem to understand I'm saying because you keep repeating the same thing over and over and meddling issues. For example the mainframe example was meant to show how difficult it is to prove consciousness of another person, rather you dived in with who created the computer!

I will repeat myself again, the causal factors for structural complexity are known by experience. Man made complexities can easily be recognized as we are familiar with them. Namely cars, planes, ships. On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

Now to claim natural complexities are man made is ridiculous because such is contrary to our familiarity and experience.

You get me?

your illustrations are narrow and does not consider the true nature of things.

You even assumed certain status quo came by chance:

Considering the proximity of the sun to the earth, any displacement away or closer to the earth will lead to doom for the earth. Ie, Too hot or too cold, it will lead to extinction of life on planet earth completely.

But you ignore that ^^^ also.

You even went ahead to use this inanimate things to compare with the human person and life on earth as being a product of chance:

Kay 17:
On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

you imagined that the planets are flying around outer space randomly. Lol.

My friend, not so, consider our solar system:
the planets are held in place by their relative forces of attraction and repulsion as they spine round outer space.

How do you think they remain together?
By chance? No.

simple, narrow minded your views are.

You really wished reality is what you imagined it to be, but they are more complex than you can imagine.

The irony is that you wished to and have pass on such to your fans, good for them, the brain was given to every body to serve their ends but refusal to use it means you will accept shit when it is dished out as food.

@platteon

Could it be that since god is a creation ofyour mind, your inner psyche, then a denial of such a god is somehow tantamount to an invalidation of your own core essence? Isn't that the reason goddist like you despise atheism so much? Because atheists dont just mock the existence of god, they, by extension, mock your mental creation, the sum total of all that you are, or think you are?

@bolded! since according to science (claimed by mazaje on the soul thread with mr.anony), thoughts are a function of the mind(brain), and thoughts are chemical reactions, can we have the chemical equation for the "God thought" so we can replicate same in the lab on animals like goat? Then we can apply the "denial thought" to the "god thought" in the "goat object".

@frosbel this is sobering thought Talk is cheap , especially when the one to whom the talk is aimed at does not respond or simply ignores the small minds.

Logicboy03:




What nonsense are you saying?


Only a dumbazz would ask for evidence for naturalism. It would be like asking for the evidence of Nairaland right now. nature is all around you. Physical things are all around you. You live your life based on physical things that you can measure and use your five sense to understand

Apples to oranges...

There is evidence for nairaland because we know the person who wrote the code, we know webhost, we can obtain the code used to create the site easily.

What is your evience for nature? How did it get here? Who wrote the codes for it? Empty space?

Kay 17: @truthlight

Your responses were incoherent and repetitive. About 5 of the same answers to diff issues.

You didn't seem to understand I'm saying because you keep repeating the same thing over and over and meddling issues. For example the mainframe example was meant to show how difficult it is to prove consciousness of another person, rather you dived in with who created the computer!

I will repeat myself again, the causal factors for structural complexity are known by experience. Man made complexities can easily be recognized as we are familiar with them. Namely cars, planes, ships. On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

Now to claim natural complexities are man made is ridiculous because such is contrary to our familiarity and experience.

You get me?

So i guess gravity appeared without any form of intelligence? What a crock.

Responding to your post line by line would be a complete waste of time. Its amazing how people suspend their own sense of intelligence when it comes to God.

davidylan:

So i guess gravity appeared without any form of intelligence? What a crock.

Responding to your post line by line would be a complete waste of time. Its amazing how people suspend their own sense of intelligence when it comes to God.

The irony is killing me

davidylan:

Apples to oranges...

There is evidence for nairaland because we know the person who wrote the code, we know webhost, we can obtain the code used to create the site easily.

What is your evience for nature? How did it get here? Who wrote the codes for it? Empty space?

What is the evidence for nature? Do you live in a vacuum?

Are you an alien from the black hole?

Truthlight and davidlyan

Both of you haven't still responded on my points. I have tried to be clear.

I was saying experience of a phenomenon is the sole criteria for knowing whether it was intelligently designed or naturally made. We can identify man made designs by their association with man.

However intricate designs like the water cycle don't have an intelligent hand guiding it or designing it, therefore it is naturally occuring.

For Gravity, we haven't seen an intelligent being coming along to put it there, so we can't presume intelligent design.

Truthlight was concerned about chance being blind etc. Water doesn't boil by chance, clouds don't form by chance, neither do mountains; because they all follow physical laws, hence chance is not needed.