Deep Sight:

Well as a tiresome guide, let me suggest that you make the plank of the discussion causation of living material phenomena.

You can bring that up here;
https://www.nairaland.com/1164040/3-reasons-why-theism-irrational

Theism defeated
https://www.nairaland.com/1164040/3-reasons-why-theism-irrational

plaetton:

You see how irrational you are?.
So Your god is hiding somewhere outside the universe and the says that whoever does not believe in him is a fool, when all he has to do is show up his face ?

We are fools for not believing in what even you and Muslims, Catholics, Jehovah's witness, white garment churches,tithing fraudsters, trinitarians, just to mention a few, cannot even agree upon?

Just watching you argue with every religious sect and denomination on this forum is enough evidence that for you, religion belief is one big quagmire.

And you despise athiests for not jumping in into the quagmire with you?

what has that to do with the statement "there is no God?"

Rational People from all ages dont need to belong to those religion to know that there is a God.

So, only a .......... Will say "there is no God" based on those.

Kay 17:

1. That is part of the right to free speech, one can act as a jerk if he likes, one can be wrong if one wishes to. Most established religions deny ppl free speech cos they believe such ppl are wrong, which is tyranny.

3. To treat the antithesis of a subject the same as the subject is contradictory ridiculous. However atheism on its own can't be a religion.

4. Faith rather than Reason or Science is the basis for JudeoChristian God.

what has that to do with the statement that "there is no God"?

"every house is constructed by someone" but your own brain magically came out from faeces, i guess!

@Truthislight

Go troll somewhere else....you are just looking to argue for argument sake

Kay 17:

That's your OWN opinion actually.

what has his opinion to do with your conclusion that "there is no God?"

is your brain dependant on his statements?

Dont you have a mind of your own?

Or, are you a FOOL?

Kay 17:

1. Called such a person a jerk is likewise free speech. However, free speech isn't a Christian value. Galileo persecution is an example.

2. Nobody knows what that means.

3. Christianity in the 2nd century was unaware of science.

what has this to do with "there is no God"?

plaetton:

You sidestepped my question. Clever.

let me ask again, if with your maturity in christianity, you still cannot reconcile with your fellow muslim, catholic,JW, white garment and trinitarians theists about the nature of god, his will, his plans for mankind, his needs(Money or virtue,belief or deeds, devotion or ritual), are you not in a quagmire?
I see you as someone who is desperately, but genuinely trying to sift through the irrationality and tangled web of religious belief.
to say that another person is foolish for not jumping in to that pool, is , well, akin to irrationality of highest kind.

And thank you for asking.
My main problem with religion, in Nigeria, is the large scale exploitation that goes with it. This is something that even you have acknowledged and criticised very often.
Why should I not mock, and be angry that something that is sold(with fear as the primary currency) as a liberating philosophy, turns around to mentally enslave and materially exploit those for whom it was supposed to liberate?.

My problem with christianity of today is how the rapacious religious elite take soooo much and give absolutely nothing in return to the communities they exploit.
Even the missionaries of old built and ran schools, hospitals,etc. They left the comforts of their home countries to be in involved in the communities where they spread their gospel of Jesus.
I know that even you are highly irritated by the latrine pit quality of the PFN crowd, who see only exploitable resources rather than human souls.

My problem with today's christianity is the complete monetization of all that had hitherto seemed sacred, even to an unbeliever like me.
Its all money money money .
How can you expect non-believers to just look and walk away? why should we not mock on and mock on?

You should spend more time fighting those in your midst who debase you sacred beliefs, and no time at all bashing atheists.

and what has that to do with your conclusion that "there is no God"?

"Every house is constructed by someone, but the one that constructed all things is who?

Kay 17:

1. We agree on this.

2. Provide a biblical provision that praises free speech. I'd mention the intolerance towards other religions of other nations. And the intolerance towards idol worship in Israel.

3. Good point, Francis Bacon gave us Science, however if science wasn't formalized in the time of Francis Bacon, then it further stresses my point that Science wasn't present as at the time Christianity originated because Christianity was over a thousand year old as at the Bacon's time.

whatever, what has human action caused that warrant your saying "there is no God"?

Kay 17:

1. God is a contradiction.

2. God is incomprehensible

3. God is perfect but an imperfect world

4. God is purported to be omnipotent, hence the use of design is useless to HE who wills anything.

5. God is purposeless and that runs contrary to teleology

For empiricism

1. God is exempted from empirical scrutiny.

and yet you say you are not what Psalm calls you?

When you are lost due to human definitions?

If there were no other humans on earth what will you have said is your reasons for saying that "there is no God"?

At that point you will have claimed that you fell from the sun i supposed?

And you then say you have a brain?

Your brain is a disappointment.

Is it that you are incapable of making rational deduction?

JeSoul: My dear,

I can guarantee you majority of the christians on this thread agree 100% with the above. We share the same disdain for these wolves - recognizing that they have bastardized a noble concept....but

this does not drive us to 'atheism' (and I frankly cannot see why it would drive anyone). It should simply remind us of the fact that people will do bad things, and people will do good things. The same "God" and "religion" is the driving force behind a lot of good that is done in the world - why not focus on that instead as what it should be?

you my dear, have an independent rational mind capable of rational deductions unlike the others that that Psalms made a conclusived statement concerning.

And you have just proved that Psalms to be a fact.

plaetton:

Good. T
Then let it be understood, especially for my irredeemable detractors on this forum, lol, that when , for example I criticise Adeboye, other MOGs or their NL apostles, I am not criticising christianity as a body, but venting my anger at things that I see as social injustices all done and condoned in the name of christianity and god.

how does this lead to the, "there is no God"?

Imagine!

atheist:

mazaje:

Your point is completely senseless and you KNOW it. . .I was in Nigeria during the christmas season for just two weeks. . .I was labelled the son of satan, looked down upon and treated by badly by some christians just because I dismissed and ridiculed their basis for tithe and pastoral worship(the argument was basically that you do not have to pay tithe to be richest people in the world do not pay tithes, it then evolved into the bible and I mistakenly talked loosely). . .These are people that did not even know I was an atheist. . .They use the bible to justify their delusions. . .In Nigeria today you can be killed for being an atheist and any body that claims my assertion is not true is a LIAR. . .Why do believers in Nigeria treat people badly when they tell them they do not believe in their god and their religion?. . .

If a person that believes in a tooth fairy ostracizes you, disrespects you and refuses to have regard for you because you lack belief in his tooth fairy mythology. . .You will spend a valuable time arguing with him about his tooth fairy mythology. . .That is the same thing the atheist do here. . .To claim other wise to to tell LIES, simple. . .

how does this lead to that: "there is no God"?

Deep Sight:

As much as I hate to say this, your written English sir, is generally and consistently terrible.

thank you.

Logicboy03: @Truthislight

Go troll somewhere else....you are just looking to argue for argument sake

no time for irrationality.

truthislight:
no time for irrationality.

Man, what have you been drinking today, again?

plaetton:

Man, what have you been drinking today, again?

He is on Trollpium!

Now, on the real question of irrationality, let us all who have contributed to this thread be honest to ourselve and sincerely look at this issue for what it truely represents.

https://www.nairaland.com/1164038/pastor-e.a-adeboye-storms-oau

The General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God(RCCG) storms Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife this week in an open air crusade.
The programme kicks off this Thursday and continue till Friday. The schedule time is 4pm and 6am respectively for the two days. Venue is Sports Complex. The programme is expected to attract over 10,000 attendee, including staffs, students and nearby visitors from Ife and suburbs.
Considering the fact that the students are writing their second semester examination, will the programme still attracts the expected crowds?
Of course it would. A cross examination of the students revealed their ethusiasm to attend the program, considering the fact that exams for some ends by 6pm Thursday. They still remain adamant to attend the programme.
GREAT IFE SYNDROME; the most religious campus in the world. Not surprised.
THE THEME IS ' THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD' from the book of John 8vs12.
Come and be blessed as the servant of God unraffle the scriptures.
PROUDLY GREAT IFEITES!

^^^^^
Putting our difference in beliefs aside, who does not see and recognise the irrationality of turning a University, a higher place of academic learning, where minds are moulded, the brainthrust of man's curiosity,imaginations, courage and enterprise, the intellectual repository of a nation, being deliberately turned into a vegetable farm for the religious farmers?.

Who does not see a bleak future for an already devastated Africa, when our meagre specks of light are constantly under assault from self-serving merchants of religion?
What can our nation, any nation, hope to ever gain, when one of our universities are boasted to be "the most religious campus on earth" ?
What can be the output?

Who amongst you thinks that is just fine and harmless?

Again, putting aside religious differences, what is Nigeria's main obsession with tokumbo religions?

truthislight:

how does this turned to, "there is no God"?

I was spoeaking on several issues

truthislight:

and yet you say you are not what Psalm calls you?

When you are lost due to human definitions?

If there were no other humans on earth what will you have said is your reasons for saying that "there is no God"?

At that point you will have claimed that you fell from the sun i supposed?

And you then say you have a brain?

Your brain is a disappointment.

Is it that you are incapable of making rational deduction?

You didn't make an effective reply. My origin or the origin of life doesn't necessarily point to God. Because God is likewise believed to be Life! So why ask me that.

You mentioned a house, good point. But a squeezed piece of paper despite its roughness and lack of elegant precise design will always be known to be man made. Because we have experience of its causality.

We also have experience of structural complexities arising from Nature; mountains, planetary bodies, stars, rivers, lightning storms etc.

Hence God is not a necessary creator of our complex world.

God in most definitions is Conscious. That purported fact is deemed impossible to prove.

If God created our world, it would be perfect. But since it is not. The valid conclusion is God didn't otherwise his perfection will flow into the world.

God is a contradiction, given that he is incomprehensible and despite that known, that he is good and yet perpetuates evil. Omnipotent yet falls low to resort to design.

Above of all, God is the claim of the theist. And apart for the lack of a coherent argument.

Deep Sight:

Now you are resorting to outright lies on the nature of your person. It was bad enuf to lie about the nature of time.

What lie did I tell about myself?

Deep Sight:
Of course our other thread on the question as to whether time and space were created by the big b@ng was more than enough proof of your general and consistent - and might I add - willful - illogicality.

Yet you couldn't demonstrate this "willful illogicality" on that thread. You've chosen to make that claim here. Why don't you actually make that claim on that thread and support it?

frosbel:
Since thehomer cannot respond, let me try you , my good pal

Oh? But I did respond. What you should have said is that you didn't like my response not that I couldn't respond.

thehomer:

What lie did I tell about myself?

The lie you told is your statement that you are not an online comedian or prankster. That is a very unfortunate and deep lie.

Yet you couldn't demonstrate this "willful illogicality" on that thread. You've chosen to make that claim here. Why don't you actually make that claim on that thread and support it?

I did. Here it is -

Thehomer -

- Claimed that time commenced with the big slam but then acceded that the big slam occured within a timeline

- Claimed that time commenced at the big slam, but that the timeline commenced at the singularity: which he says pre-existed the big slam

- Accepted that physical things exist in time and space

- Accepted that the singularity was physical and yet:

- insisted that there was no time at the singularity.

- Denies the obvious fact of pre-existing space given the expansion of the universe into already existing space by saying "i don't know"

- When asked the simple question: is it not obvious that inorder for something to expand, there must be some room into which it is expanding - avoids this starkly simple and obvious fact by saying that he is not sure if there must be room to accomadate such expansion.

That is the summary of wild contradictions which thehomer canvasses as credible science. I have pointed out these contradictions ad infinitum ad nauseum. It seems to me that the difference between my worldview and that of thehomer is simply that he takes current scientific thinking on any subject to be infallible: i do not. Otherwise he would not assume that the current scientific theories on time and space are exactly and infallibly correct - especially given the obvious contradictions and deficiencies that the theories throw up. I am of the view that it behoves a genuine thinker to prob beyond that which is offered by other human beings when such offerings throw up contradictions and inconsistencies.

In this regard i should mention the fact that people like Galileo Galilei and Nicholaus Corpernicus were derided in their day for propounding ideas that ran against the accepted "scientific" worldviews of the time. As it turns out, the questions and probes conducted by these people gave rise to better and more precise knowledge. Let us not be shy of challenging concepts that even Einstein has put forward regarding these things: for Einstein was only human: and you cannot tell me that science and knowledge will not continue to grow and expand beyond that which he knew in his day. If Einstein surpassed Newton's physical theories: surely with the passage of time and the growth of knowledge someone in the future may also surpass Einstein's physical theories, possibly even by contradicting them.

I will just leave a link to a discussion viaro, justcool and myself had about space a long while ago. That discussion i believe shows that some ideas about space may be wrong.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-362859.0.html

Enough said. Cheers.

https://www.nairaland.com/577313/thehomer-now-lets-discuss-big/1

The problem is that you be pikin wey no dey hear word.

Deep Sight:

The lie you told is your statement that you are not an online comedian or prankster. That is a very unfortunate and deep lie.

Wow. So you actually know more about me from a relatively anonymous posting online about who I am than I do? What magic is this?

Deep Sight:
I did. Here it is -

. . . .

https://www.nairaland.com/577313/thehomer-now-lets-discuss-big/1

The problem is that you be pikin wey no dey hear word.

You've merely quoted yourself above and ignored the response I gave to that post. It is still available on that thread. I asked you to show me the problems in my reasoning using my quotes instead, you used your own quotes. What is that supposed to demonstrate when I already responded to them on that thread? You ignored my responses and posted your summaries with all its flaws that were demonstrated there.

Just let me know when you're ready for a serious discussion rather than using dishonest debating tactics.

mazaje:

Your point is completely senseless and you KNOW it. . .I was in Nigeria during the christmas season for just two weeks. . .I was labelled the son of satan, looked down upon and treated by badly by some christians just because I dismissed and ridiculed their basis for tithe and pastoral worship(the argument was basically that you do not have to pay tithe to be richest people in the world do not pay tithes, it then evolved into the bible and I mistakenly talked loosely). . .These are people that did not even know I was an atheist. . .They use the bible to justify their delusions. . .In Nigeria today you can be killed for being an atheist and any body that claims my assertion is not true is a LIAR. . .Why do believers in Nigeria treat people badly when they tell them they do not believe in their god and their religion?. . .

If a person that believes in a tooth fairy ostracizes you, disrespects you and refuses to have regard for you because you lack belief in his tooth fairy mythology. . .You will spend a valuable time arguing with him about his tooth fairy mythology. . .That is the same thing the atheist do here. . .To claim other wise to to tell LIES, simple. . .

And still you failed the basic test, for me I won't go and start an argument with an adult that believes in the tooth fairy, you on the other hand you would start a very vigorous argument with such, remember even if shrek calls me a fool, I would probably laugh it our, if shrek calls me son of satan I would still laugh it out why? It is just another fairy tale amongst many, now I would only engage shrek if I perceive this not to be merely fairy tales . . . The LIES here being told are those who spent good time refuting "fairy tales"

plaetton: Now, on the real question of irrationality, let us all who have contributed to this thread be honest to ourselve and sincerely look at this issue for what it truely represents.

https://www.nairaland.com/1164038/pastor-e.a-adeboye-storms-oau

The General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God(RCCG) storms Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife this week in an open air crusade.
The programme kicks off this Thursday and continue till Friday. The schedule time is 4pm and 6am respectively for the two days. Venue is Sports Complex. The programme is expected to attract over 10,000 attendee, including staffs, students and nearby visitors from Ife and suburbs.
Considering the fact that the students are writing their second semester examination, will the programme still attracts the expected crowds?
Of course it would. A cross examination of the students revealed their ethusiasm to attend the program, considering the fact that exams for some ends by 6pm Thursday. They still remain adamant to attend the programme.
GREAT IFE SYNDROME; the most religious campus in the world. Not surprised.
THE THEME IS ' THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD' from the book of John 8vs12.
Come and be blessed as the servant of God unraffle the scriptures.
PROUDLY GREAT IFEITES!

>being fouled mouthed is part of the easiest things to do in life.
indulge yourself, Its your call, it tells alot about the individual<

So then, wishing that i will make sense of the saying: "there is no God"

concerning the link above you posted ^^^.

Irrespective of your opinion of what you have posted up there, whether it is right or wrong,

how and why should it be that it is God that should be the one that should take the punch for that action from a freewill agent like you, action taken out of his own volition, irrespective of his claimed?

How does that translate to mean that: "there is no God"?

Wandering!

plaetton: ^^^^^
Putting our difference in beliefs aside, who does not see and recognise the irrationality of turning a University, a higher place of academic learning, where minds are moulded, the brainthrust of man's curiosity,imaginations, courage and enterprise, the intellectual repository of a nation, being deliberately turned into a vegetable farm for the religious farmers?.

Who does not see a bleak future for an already devastated Africa, when our meagre specks of light are constantly under assault from self-serving merchants of religion?
What can our nation, any nation, hope to ever gain, when one of our universities are boasted to be "the most religious campus on earth" ?
What can be the output?

Who amongst you thinks that is just fine and harmless?

Again, putting aside religious differences, what is Nigeria's main obsession with tokumbo religions?

i may even give it to you, that his action is bad if you want.

You as an individual also sometimes make the wrong call, how does his wrong call (like you wish) and your wrong calls sometimes led to the conclusion that "there is no God"?

Stalwert:

And still you failed the basic test, for me I won't go and start an argument with an adult that believes in the tooth fairy, you on the other hand you would start a very vigorous argument with such, remember even if shrek calls me a fool, I would probably laugh it our, if shrek calls me son of satan I would still laugh it out why? It is just another fairy tale amongst many, now I would only engage shrek if I perceive this not to be merely fairy tales . . . The LIES here being told are those who spent good time refuting "fairy tales"

You are simply not making any sense. . .You know exactly what I am talking about. . .The fairy tale makes people to go against the atheist, discriminate against them, insult them, treat them badly and even kill them in some cases. . .The atheist are fighting back. . .I repeat, if a shrek uses his fairy tale to discriminate against your, refuse you opportunities, looks down on you, ostracises you and condemns you most of the time based on what his fairy tale tells him/her. . You will spend a LOT of your valuable time arguing with him on that fairy tale. . .You are only telling a LIE if you say other wise . . .

truthislight: atheist:

how does this lead to that: "there is no God"?

Where did you see me say it leads to there is no god?. . .Learn to read and understand things. . . .

mazaje:

You are simply not making any sense. . .You know exactly what I am talking about. . .The fairy tale makes people to go against the atheist, discriminate against them, insult them, treat them badly and even kill them in some cases. . .The atheist are fighting back. . .I repeat, if a shrek uses his fairy tale to discriminate against your, refuse you opportunities, looks down on you, ostracises you and condemns you most of the time based on what his fairy tale tells him/her. . You will spend a LOT of your valuable time arguing with him on that fairy tale. . .You are only telling a LIE if you say other wise . . .

No I will spend time using the law to protect myself from him or else you guys are saying if you got slapped by someone on the street and the man said he slap you in the name of the spaghetti monster you would rush down to NL and start debating logicboy who happen to swear by the spagetti monster it makes little sense to do so and the LIES are being told by those who spend their life time debating "fairy tales"!

Kay 17:

You didn't make an effective reply. My origin or the origin of life doesn't necessarily point to God. Because God is likewise believed to be Life! So why ask me that.

how do you mean? Shade more light to your big claim up there.

Dont you think for a complex entity like you to exist it calls for more than mere chance?

Kay 17:
You mentioned a house, good point.

a house is less complex than you. No?

But you are willing to accept the notion of a designer for a house you accidentally meet at the centre of the forest even though you find no person around claiming to be the builder, however, you are unwilling to accept the notion of a designer for you brain and person, why and how? .

Your brain and the house which has the remotest possibility of appearing by chance?

Kay 17:
But a squeezed piece of paper despite its roughness and lack of elegant precise design will always be known to be man made.

error!
The chances that a squeezed piece of paper at certain conditions can get deformed and become squeezed due to the forces of nature is very realistic and plausible.

But your brain, coming by chance? Please explain how?

Kay 17:
Because we have experience of its causality.

do you also have the experience of the causality of your brain?
^^^ please explain.

Kay 17:
We also have experience of structural complexities arising from Nature; mountains, planetary bodies, stars, rivers, lightning storms etc.

your words!

I belief the house you live in came by chance, if not, i smell delusion.

Kay 17:
Hence God is not a necessary creator of our complex world.

answer the questions above underwise know that your type is true to the book of Psalm(and you know what it says i suppose?)

Kay 17:
God in most definitions is Conscious.

"where ever there is intelligence, there is a mind, Where ever there is a mind there is a person".

Am guessing you are not aware of that ^^^

Kay 17:
That purported fact is deemed impossible to prove.

your limitation my friend.

It is called "common sense", i guess it is not that common anyway.(that is why Psalms calls such kind persons FOOLs)

Kay 17:
If God created our world, it would be perfect.

with your limitation in knowledge i guess you dont have the full gist.
Well, arrogant "types" dont learn, neither do they ask questions.
they claim to know all.

Kay 17:
But since it is not. The valid conclusion is God didn't otherwise his perfection will flow into the world.

befor the advent of christianity and Islam, normal humans without mental problem say there is God and they have no need for the bible or q'uran to teach them about this "ultimate reality".
but you, without a contrary evidence have presumptiousely said "there is no God"
how?

Kay 17:
God is a contradiction, given that he is incomprehensible

with your "type", that ^^ should be obvious.

Kay 17:
and despite that known, that he is good and yet perpetuates evil. Omnipotent yet falls low to resort to design.

Above of all, God is the claim of the theist. And apart for the lack of a coherent argument.

What has that ^^ to do with the claim that "there is no God" ?

How did you proved that ^ to yourself if not delusion?