michelin89:

I was trying to make an analogy with your post.

You didn't mention anything regarding your gender being designed by the almighty.

Yeah, but experience has apart to play in decision-making, even if the woman was experienced/older. Bottomline is that the man should have the final say, after analysing your opinion.

thebaron:

Well I have seen so many posts on this thread, some intelligent and some others are well,  Let me start like this, those who want to talk about this particular verse should ensure they read the whole thing and get the message clearly.
Ephesians 5:22-25 Starts by telling wives to submit to their as unto the Lord. This means a wife MUST submit to the husband as if he (the husband) was the Lord. She (the wife) is asked to submit because the man is the head of the home. However, the man is asked to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. What did Christ do for the church? He gave himself for her (the church) without reservation he was willing to die for her. Mind you He (Christ) did this before anyone ever submitted to Him. This is what a husband must do. He must be willing to put her (his wife) first in all things.
The subject of marriage is one that is grossly misunderstood. This is the reason why the divorce rate is going up everyday in Nigeria. When a man loves his wife he wont abuse her either verbally, emotionally or physically. When a man loves his wife he will be faithful to her no matter what the condition is. He will not put his mother or family before her.
In the same vein, the question of a wife submitting to her husband is not conditional. As a matter of fact none of the instruction in the scripture we are using as a reference is a suggestion. They are profound instructions and anyone who wants to have a successful marriage will gladly obey them. I want to conclude by saying that if you are not ready to play your role as stated in the Ephesians 5:22-25 either as a man or woman then you are not ready to get married cos you will definitely make a mess of your marriage when you get into it.

Your post is spot on but i must use it to bring out a point. The instructions in Eph 5 are not a two-way street as some have suggested . . . i.e. my husband must love me first before i submit or vice versa. The husband is COMMANDED to love his wife whether she submits or not and likewise the woman.

What this boils down to for me is simple - take absolute time and care to prayerfully let God help you choose your mate. One that is on the same page spiritually and emotionally as you. One that will have no problem obeying Eph 5 with you.

sleekymag:

Yeah, but experience has apart to play in decision-making, even if the woman was experienced/older. Bottomline is that the man should have the final say, after analysing your opinion.

I am not going into a relationship to give up the final say when it comes to myself. Am I wrong to say so?

michelin89:

I am not going into a relationship to give up the final say when it comes to myself. Am I wrong to say so?

you're either not ready for marriage anytime soon or u're simply content with being a single mom.

sleekymag:

No---not at all. Maybe i'm talking from my own experiences. Lets say i've been in a relationship for over four years, we're in courtship currently, and she's this beautiful, intelligent and classy girl. A 1st class graduate, things moving smooth for her, (same with me too), But she's always had this independent outlook to life, Hardly takes advice (likes doing what'son her mind), am older and more experienced so of course i tell her things to beware of but she thinks am being too protective, often times it turns out i'm right, and i'm usually pissed. Everything about the relationship is perfect except for the one fact (d submissive factor). Sometimes i just wish she'd just shut her mouth while i'm talking, not that i'm saying one and she's saying five, see what i mean?

This is just a human character problem that can exist in both male and female.
Someone who doesn't listen to advice would rarely get along with people. And that's really not as a result of being independent but a character problem. I would not stay with a man who cannot listen to my advice either. Being submissive does not mean it's only the man that can supply suggestions in the marriage. You are both adults, and you can have debates without the usual uproar of I'm the boss.
Only a mannerless man or woman will not be able to have discussions without being rational.

sleekymag:

What if its not communication, cos we communicate perfectly. What if its "i too know" on her part?

No one will listen to you if you give reasons like 'I know better than you'
It becomes a competition of how much knowledge each party possesses.

It's so much easier to obey the bible and 'treat your wife as a weaker vessel'. Not 'treat your wife as you would your 12-year old kid'.

The same Bible says love your wife . . . and then goes on to define love.
It goes on to say love is selfless, not rude, persevering, slow to wrath, among other things.

At the end of the day, the Bible expects even more from men that it does the women.

eldee:

No one will listen to you if you give reasons like 'I know better than you'
It becomes a competition of how much knowledge each party possesses.

It's so much easier to obey the bible and 'treat your wife as a weaker vessel'. Not 'treat your wife as you would your 12-year old kid'.

The same Bible says love your wife . . . and then goes on to define love.
It goes on to say love is selfless, not rude, persevering, slow to wrath, among other things.

At the end of the day, the Bible expects even more from men that it does the women.

GBAM GBAM GBAM GBAM GBAM.

davidylan:

you're either not ready for marriage anytime soon or u're simply content with being a single mom.

You sef. Are you ready? Make man pikin hear word jare.

As for me when I see my partner doing something silly, because even the smartest of all men fail sometimes, I won't give him the final say because he is the man. I am not ready to suffer for the carelessness of someone else.

michelin89:

I am not going into a relationship to give up the final say when it comes to myself. Am I wrong to say so?

In a real relationship you forget about "self".

stillwater:

In a real relationship you forget about "self".

My sister, I have been there so I know what you are talking about. This is the only time I can talk rationally, so make I reason while I can.

women submit , submit and submit thats the command of God

eldee:

At the end of the day, the Bible expects even more from men that it does the women.

FACT!

@ thebaron
Well said.

davidylan:

you're either not ready for marriage anytime soon or u're simply content with being a single mom.

Spot on, Whether we like it or yes, a man is the head, He could be understanding or not choose to be, he's still the head.

sleekymag:

Spot on, Whether we like it or yes, a man is the head, He could be understanding or not choose to be, he's still the head.

Now this is something I don't want to read. You are not in any position to choose. YOU MUST LOVE YOUR WIFE. It is not your perogative. It is your goddamn duty so do it and stop complaining your wife is not submissive.

If you feel you can choose to be caring or not, why can't I choose to live my relationship like I were single?

A little secret for women: Know how to praise your man; even if he's not all that, Know what to do to make his head swell. He'll love you even more. Make him know how much you respect and adore him, and he'll be under your armpit I'm not trying to be spiritual here, butits the same with God; when we praise Him, he moves on our behalf. You offer him praise etc, and he'll give you an open cheque.

Not am not saying you shouldn't say things as they are, or berate him when he does soemthing wrong, but going by the secrets of women that have had blissful marriages, that's one secret that always works for them.

michelin89:

Now this is something I don't want to read. You are not in any position to choose. YOU MUST LOVE YOUR WIFE. It is not your perogative. It is your goddamn duty so do it and stop complaining your wife is not submissive.

If you feel you can choose to be caring or not, why can't I choose to live my relationship like I were single?

Who wouldn't want to love his wife? Of course any right thinking man that married his wife loves her, It makes it easy for him to express it, when she caresses his ego, rather than be nonchalant about it.

sleekymag:

Who wouldn't want to love his wife? Of course any right thinking man that married his wife loves her, It makes it easy for him to express it, when she caresses his ego, rather than be nonchalant about it.

Then you MUST be understanding. God didn't give you a choice in the Bible. He said do it and you MUST obey.

[size=5pt]How I love using the scriptures. So fun!!!!!!!![/size]

michelin89:

Then you MUST be understanding. God didn't give you a choice in the Bible. He said do it and you MUST obey.

[size=5pt]How I love using the scriptures. So fun!!!!!!!![/size]

Agreed. There are some men that are to eager to spoil their wives and love them.They are wary of letting it get into their heads such that they start misbehaving, So really it's a two-way thing! Remember what proverbs says about the contentious woman? Am not sure it says anything about the man whodoesn't love his wife enough. Truth is men love their wives ALWAYS, but its the expression of that love that i'm talking about.

sleekymag:

A little secret for women: Know how to praise your man; even if he's not all that, Know what to do to make his head swell. He'll love you even more. Make him know how much you respect and adore him, and he'll be under your armpit I'm not trying to be spiritual here, butits the same with God; when we praise Him, he moves on our behalf. You offer him praise etc, and he'll give you an open cheque.

Not am not saying you shouldn't say things as they are, or berate him when he does soemthing wrong, but going by the secrets of women that have had blissful marriages, that's one secret that always works for them.

This one works both ways too.

Proverbs 31: 23
Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

Proverbs 31: 31
Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

This is saying the man doesn't just tell her how good she is, he goes out to the other elders and praises his wife.
That's why you see the noblest of authors dedicating their works to their wife. . . that's letting everyone know who's the woman putting you up there.

eldee:

This one works both ways too.

Proverbs 31: 23
Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

Proverbs 31: 31
Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

This is saying the man doesn't just tell her how good she is, he goes out to the other elders and praises his wife.
That's why you see the noblest of authors dedicating their works to their wife. . . that's letting everyone know who's the woman putting you up there.

That's different from what happens every day inside the home. We have seen couples making a front to outsiders but what's happening in their home is a different ball game entirely.

A little suggestion for the men. You MUST Love your wife no matter what she does because you have already married her. Your loving your is not based on her submission. So I want to advice the guys please shine your eye before you marry o.

A suggestion for the woman, You MUST submit to your husband. It is not based on his loving you. You already agreed to marry him so you MUST submit. So before you agree to marry that good looking loaded guy be sure he is the kind of man you will want to submit to. The moment you say I do, then you must DO.

I am not going into a relationship to give up the final say when it comes to myself. Am I wrong to say so?

i thought marriage was supposed to be a union.  you seem to be taking your feminism to feminazi levels.

Spot on, Whether we like it or yes, a man is the head, He could be understanding or not choose to be, he's still the head.

the man being the head of an household is nothing but a social construct. Gender roles aren't rigid and women seems to be taking leadership roles these days.

That should not be a problem. Usually men find better women out there once their wives start doing that "equal" thing. And of course its always sweet to dump those and get on with a new one, so, ladies dont obey your husbands - it help them find the new and better - and kick your old, used asses to the curb

I laugh in Japanese - whenever I hear that "Westernisation" is to blame for Nigerian marriages or society's ills I have to laugh.

How is this "Westernisation" quantified?  About 100+ years ago, women in the so-called "Western" world didn't enjoy this "Westernisation" that some of you speak of.  Where was "Westernisation" when women were seen as a man's property?  Or when a man was allowed to beat his wife and pretty much get away with it?  What about not allowing women a basic education?  Or women dying in childbirth with little medical help?  How about when a woman couldn't work without her husband's permission?  Or couldn't vote?

It was only in the past hundred plus years that life for the "Western" woman began to change. They could vote. They could work. They could get an education.  Please don't insult my intelligence by using "Westernisation" as some kind of measure by which Nigerian women are judged.  

Speaking of which - @ poster, go back and read the entire thing and come with a sensible argument.  One (wife submitting) cannot exist independently of the other (husband loving). 

By the way, your poll is incorrect; it is about submission, not obedience.  In the Scriptural context, obedience is between master-slave, parent-child and ruler-subject, NOT husband and wife.

I love my wife no matter what she does - submit or no submit. Although I would prefer she is submissive; but hey if she does not submit today, tomorrow is another day, and that is love.

love is non-negotiable.

As far as I know sha, if as a woman I chrish and respect my husband, then friction wont occur very often (though its bound to happen and its healthy). But this you people's 'submission' of a word. . . . hm . . . e get as e be oh, cos as far as I know, I should only submit to my Creator. And dont bring the Bible into this please, because the original language of the Bible is Hebrew, and then translated into Latin or whatever, before english. So only goodness knows what word EXACTLY is meant to be there.
And so this word 'submission'. . . . hm . . . e get as e be oh.

If you as a man set out wanting your wife to 'submit' to you, you'd either get a) A 'submissive' but coniving cheating woman, or b) A trouble maker.
If your woman respects you as she loves you, then you have all the 'submission' one human being can ask from the other.

But that wont mean she cant think for herself anylonger or argue with you. A man being the 'head' is not overruling.
As many wars and unhappiness in the world today have proven, men arent always right.
So thank The Lord if you find a woman (not a trouble maker) who challenges you to be the best man you can be by not being 'submissive'!

Oya, let the abuses reign! ! !

Technically yes women should obey their husbands. That's why you should pray to God to have a wise husband in the first place so that he doesn't lead you the wrong way,