₦airaland Forum

@Nilla
I linked a scientific poll of about one thousand Iraqis across the 18 provinces of Iraq,you on the other hand linked a clip of on an interview of 5 Iraqis in a Baghdad market.

How can u be arguing whether a poll is a better barometer of public opinion than a TV interview.Why then are millions of dollars spent on polling when u can just walk into the nearest market and grab 5 people.

Polls take into consideration the diversity which exists in every country .Imagine if someone walked into a market in Gusau and showed a clip of the traders calling for Sharia law and claimed that was conclusive proof that Nigerians want Sharia law.

nilla:
We keep digressing from the topic.
What Bush did was wrong.

How can the views of the Iraqi people be a diversion away from the question of whether the US invasion of their country is wrong.Like I noted earlier,even Afam was prepared to admit that at the time the Iraqi people said they thought the toppling of Saddam worth it,so Bush was wrong to do what most Iraqis thought was worth it.Or he was wrong to retain troops in Iraq even whem the UN unanimously sanctioned US stay in Iraq

@Nilla

The Iraqi people are a diverse range of people of different religious sects,ethnicities and culture.In many ways Iraq is like Nigeria,it is merely a georaphical expression.

Why should I attach any weight to your You Tube Link when earlier I linked a poll which showed that 77 percent of Iraqis thought the toppling of SADDAMM was worth their suffering.

@Afam

I have realised the futility of arguing with an ignorant nitwit.I will not advice u to stop posting since with a brain like urs, NAIRALAND represents ur best chance of a scholarship.

Easyy:
I'd like to be told either that George 'war monger' Bush intentionally decided to obliterate the nation of Iraq or that he is an absolute daftie who thought he knew everything while most reasonable people all over the world were telling him what they thought of his planned attack at the time.

"U will like to be told".With that attitude u will can never form a balanced opinion of this issue.

The first 6 words of your post summarise what is wrong with your analysis of the situation.You see and hear only what u want to hear.When Nilla linked a You Tube clip,u liked what u saw and that to u was weightier evidence of the topic,much better than the scientific polls I referenced from the Brookings Iraq Index(The Brookings Instituition was against the Iraq war)

No one has met my challenge earlier to show me a poll in 2006 where Iraqis say that the toplling of Saddam was not worth it.

I don't claim that the Iraqi people want the US to stay .

My point is  that given,as even Afam was prepared to admit,that the Iraqi people said that the toppling of Saddam is worth it,what is Bush to be tried for?For doing what at the time most Iraqis approved of?For subsequently staying in Iraq when he had obtained unanimous UN approval ?

Beyond that,what is the legal basis for a trial.None

I still maintain that the only reason people are interested in this conflict in the first place is because of their dislike for the US in general and Bush in particular.Where were the calls for a trial of Saddam in the 90s when he committed mass murder against the Shia and the kurds?

@Ghettolove

Gettolove:
I do not like the terrorist though, but when you look closer you may sometimes wonder if there is anyone one to challenge the super power, then you may almost be convinced that only if thses bad guys can target these super powers directly, people i need help here, as i post, a bomb might have just been detonated in iraq.

U seem to just that there is some value to teror attacks on the US in the name of challenging the superpower.Challenging the superpower is already done by the EU,Russia and China and as China grows, this challenge will grow bigger .Then anti-americanism will change to anti-Chinaism.There will be a time when people will be missing the good old days of American domination

If Bush can be tried for invading Iraq then Clinton together with all the NATO member nations leaders at the time can also be tried for what Afam called "illegal invasion",a new concept in International law AND EVEN IN LAW.

Some BDS people so hate Bush,that they are willing to invent legal concepts to hang him.This violates one of the most fundamental principles of law-nulla poena sine lege(no punishment except in accordance with the law).U can't invoke prosecution unless there is a clearly defined law which stipulates for legal proceedings in the event of its breach.

Behind the calls for Bush to be tried is a mountain of hate driven logic and hysteria.


P.S-Given that Bakkasi Peninsular has been declared part of CAMEROUN,won't those Nigerian leaders who sent Nigerian troops there be guilty of this "illegal invasion " concept.HUNDREDS of lives would have been saved if we had not intervened militarily ab initio in what the ICJ has ruled to be Camerounian territory all along

@Afam
Anytime u are called to order on something u try to avoid it by claiming that one i s digressing.Iraqi politics is intertwined with the issue of the legality of the war on Iraq


None of ur postings have raised anything concrete for which Bush can be charged. U said he should be charged for an illegal invasion

Afam:
@4Play,



Common sense, not even based on professional law should tell you that if Saddam could be tried for ordering the execution of those that were tried for the failed assasination attempt then it makes perfect sense to try Bush for ordering an illegal invasion.

.Give me one example where a charge was sustained on that basis.If that was the case then people like Clinton,Mao Zedong,Nyerere for sendind troops into other countries without a UN mandate.Remember that about 30 countries participated in this invasion,all thier Heads of States could be tried too

The charge of an illegal invasion,or to use the legal term aggresive war,was not defined in the ICC statute, BUSH can't be tried on the basis u allege

@AFAM

I asked u earlier whether u concluded that Isreal has no obligations as per 1948 borders to which u replied that is not ur conclusion.Now u say that it is

Was there a Palestinian state from which Israel seized land b4 1967 to which it has an obligation to return the land.Have u ever read RESOLUTION 242 passed in the immediate aftermath of the 1967 war?It does not place a unilateral obligation on Isreal to withdraw from occupied lands but to withdraw within the context of a comprehensive peace agreement with its neighbours.

One good thing about bringing u to task about ur statements is that u are backing away from some of ur wilder statements about the conflict and conducting a more reasoned discourse.I am dedicating the time I should use for studying to make u justify ur postings and it seems to be paying off

@Afam

U claimm that your ignorance of the political parties in Iraq is because u don't want unneccesary info in your head.So knowledge about Iraqi political parties is unnneccesary to a debate about Iraqi politics.U are a GENIUS.

The reason why u did not search for info on them is that it would have taken u a longtime to find them and their policy positions on US troops and then reply back to my post.U inevitably showed your ignorance

Afam legal opinion differs on the legality of the Iraq war.Some people like Lord Goldsmith and Prof Alan Dershowitz-Harvard law proffesor- say that the war is legal and I agree with them.U ignorantly think that everyone agrees with u.

Saddam is being tried for war crimes of which the massacre in Dujail is a component.

Precisely how will the charge against Bush be framed and who has the jurisdiction to hear such charges. Since u know more about these things tell me.

One more thing,when was the last time a former Head of State was put on trial for an illegal invasion.There is no precedence for such a thing.All the trials of former leaders relate to war crimes,for which u have to show some intent on the part of Bush of to massacre innocent civilians

Get this into your ignorant head,u can't sustain a charge for illegal invasion against Bush.Questions about the illegality of an invasion is not sufficient for a trial of a former Head of State

@kitaun

kitaun:
English players world class?? Then all Ghanian players at the World Cup are heaven class!!

Nobody exagerates how good English players as much as they do here in England.I know that everyone has a tendency to see their team in a positive light but they seem to go over the top here.

I have always asked if English football is so good why have they won only one World Cup-because they hosted that one- and no European Cup

In the past 15 years,English clubs have only featured in 3 of the Champion's League Finals

@Afam

What then is your position on Isreali obligations as per 1948?

U can rebut my claim that u are confused by clarifying ur postion once and for all

@Afam

Your perenial state of confusion is manifesting itself again.

I posted a link to some Iraqi pols statements to illustrate that a more authoritative Iraqi position-better than Nilla's link-
was that US troops are still needed in Iraq.U claimed that Iraqi pols ,like Nigerian pols, are not truly reflecting the Iraqi

people.This I disagreed with pointing out that these opinion of Iraqi pols reflect the opinion of Sistani and Hakim who are very influential in Iraqi Shia community.Same goes for the KDP and PUK in kURDISH IRAQ

Ur honesty in acknowledging that u don't know anything about Iraqi political parties is welcome.U claim that u can authoritatively discuss Iraqi politics without knowing the participants.Its like claiming knowledge about the English Premiership but not knowing who Man Utd,Chelsea or Arsenal are

I do know off head the main political parties in Isreal and Lebanon,partly due to the fact that I did study these things at University while doing international law .

I was not surprised to see how ignorant u are on this matter

@Afam

Afam:
4 Play,


I need not compare PDP to SCIRI, KDP and PUK because I don't even know what they mean.

Ur words not mine.You and I have been arguing all this while about Iraq and what the people think and u don't even know the 3 major political parties in iraq?

Haba Afam,how can u discuss US politics if u don't know the difference btw the DEmocratic party and the Republican party.

The KDP and the PUK represent the Kurdish population which is 20 percent of the Iraqi populace

If Ali Sistani-Spiritual Leader of the Shia who make up 60 percent of the populace-together with the political parties representting the Kurdish populace say that American troop prescence is a necessary evil then that is a more authoritative represention of Iraqi view of US troop prescence than Nilla's You Tube link of 6 Iraqis in a Baghdad market

I failed to see how continued US prescence is in their personal interests as they don't need the US to maintain their personal positions
I never said Iraqis like US troops.

My position is that there is nothing to prosecute Bush for;
-Not the invasion which even u conceded that up to this year most Iraqis consented to-Ayatollah Sistani even passed a fatwa during the conflict calling on Shias not to fight the Americans

-NOR continued US troop prescence which is mandated by the UN as on the request of the Iraqi Govt
-Nor the killings mostly perprated by Iraqis against each other-Shias against Sunnis

SALES of Jay-z new albu has fallen of 81 percent.WORD has gotten round that it is wack.

Interestingly,no Hip-Hop album has gone platinum -1 million-this year except for TI's album

everyalbum this year has been wack

@Afam

Afam:
4Play,




What ordinary Iraqis say is more important to what politicians say.

That is presumung u know what ordinary IRAQIS across different ethnicities and the 18 provinces say.

In NIGERIA the politicians are not a reflection of what the people think because most pols in power rigged and bribed their way into power.

In Iraq will u say that Ayatollah Ali Sistani's  and Al-Hakim's SCIRI do not truly represent Iraqi Shias feeling-SCIRI wants US troops to remain in Iraq for now.Same apllies to the KDP and PUK in KURDISTAN both of whom want the US to stay

U can't compare SCIRI,the KDP and PUK in Iraq to the PDP of Nigeria .

@nilla

nilla:
I



hmmm. . . .unscientific . I wonder how scientific you want it to get!

IF walking around in a market in Baghdad asking a few people questions is ur idea of scientific polling,then it says a lot.Iraqis live in 18 provinces and Baghdad is one of them-80 percent of all violence occurs in Baghdad .In Baghdad there are about 6 million people,thrusting cameras in the face of a few people in a SUNNI Baghdad market is not even polling not to talk of scientific

@Afam and Nilla

What do u make of this then-www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/06/061206183540.4da9y9bi.html

On one hand ,u Nilla linked what is an unscientific poll of Sunni Iraqis in a Baghdad market-80 percent of all the violence in Iraq happen in Baghdad-,whereas I linked to u what is the opinion of the elected representatives of the Iraqi people .

I have never in this thread, claimed that the Iraqi people like the prescence of Americans.I recall that I said that most Iraqis don't.But what I said is that most Iraqis say that the removal of Saddam is worth their suffering-www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index.pdf.You can reference that on page 51 of the Brookings Iraq Index

At the moment ,the US troop prescence was unanimously authorised by the UN at the request of the Iraqi Govt.

So what is Bush to be tried for? is it for toppling Saddam which even Afam concedes most Iraqis thought up to this year was worth it?,or is it for the continued prescence of Coalition troops which is unanimously authorised by the UN Security Council at the request of the Iraqi Govt?Is it for the violence Iraqis are mostly perpetrating on themselves?

Make no mistake I don't think the Bush adminstration is anywhere  near competent in its handling of Iraq.But I can't stand knee-jerk anti-americanism or anti-Bushism masquareding as sympathy for Iraqis or constructive criticsm.

As an African I like Bush for other things;

Tripling American aid budget to Africa and foreign aid in general has increased from 9.6 billion dollars in 2000 at the end the Clinton adminstration to 27 billion dollars at 2005 despite 2 major wars and a budget deficit.

Increasing spending on the AIDs pandemic from 337 million dollars in 2000 under Clinton to 2.3 billion dollars in 2005,this has helped to save hundreds of thousands of lives-African lives-due to spending on medicine to stop infected mothers passing on the virus to their offspring.

Helping bring an end to the conflict in Southern Sudan which had caused 1 million lives

Raising 80 percent of all humanitarian relief spending around the world.
Debt relief for many African nations for which Nigeria has benefited

BDS sufferers will not like u to know this or will tell it is all a lie.That is their problem.

There is nothing Bush has done in Iraq which could be subject to prosecution.A lot of blame should be laid at the feet of Iraqis who have not taken advantage of the new era in much the same way as American occupied Germany and Japan after 2nd World War .

Personally I know that in the long run they will sort things out.The Kurdish provinces in Northern Iraq went through 5 years of bloody civil war after they came out from Saddam rule .Today it is a prosperous place with one of the fastest growing economies in the world. 

Am sure they will tell u that in the long run it was all worth it but then nobody cares about their opinion because they are not anti-american

@Afam

Those who can't communicate clearly can't think clearly.Your muddled thinking produces disjointed reasoning

At one point u rejected my suggestion that Isreal has no obligations as per 1948 borders,to which I replied that u must mean that Isreal has obligations as per 1948.Again u demurred.In which case I concluded that u must hold 2 contradictory positions on this issue.

Your postings are characterised by cognitive disonance emblematic of a crack head.

My advice to u is to find another thread on other issues were u are well informed

@Afam
For one who said that the Saddam slaughter of inoccent Shia civilians after Gulf War 1 was ,in his words UNDERSTANDABLE,u have a lot of cojones accusing anyone of suporting carnage.

U have also expressed sympathy for the terrorists and have never for once condemned the violence that they unleashed.

it is quite clear ur interest in Iraq is solely for the purpose of condemning the US.It has nothing to do with the Iraqis.In one post u even refered to the Shias perjoratively,ignoring the fact that most Iraqis are Shias

@TayoD
How can u laugh at something this serious.These infidels need to be taught a lesson. Keep laughing and your head will be strategically relocated.Me and Mullah Davidylan understand what is going on in this world.

Who wouldn't want 72 virgins?Although I will prefer 36 experienced ones but 72 virgins is not bad.

The Jews are causing a lot of problem in this world and Ahmedinejad will sort them out.Can u imagine,they are not alowing to me sleep.They even removed the butter from my fridge

Sista:
uche, I am here

@Sista
Obviuosly u are here,because your name still shows "online" under it

Genial:
See you later, Ika. I'm a bit tired and haven't had enough sleep. Perhaps that will account for any eccentric behaviour you may have noticed from me tonight. Catch you later?

Good night, everyone.

Piss off dude,u will dream about Sista in your sleep .

@Uche2nna
Leave Sista alone.She has work to do.She is working on a secret programme to wipe out all White people from the face of the planet.

@Sista
On your way through the desert can u check into ur asylum.By the way don't attack any camells there,they are not White,that is just their complexion

@Sista
I have great news.I had a revelation that all White people will be wiped off the planet soon.Thought I share that with u knowing how u feel about them.

Now take those pills pls.U know u can't function without them

Mullah Davidylan,
There is nothing like terrorism.Terrorism like the Holocaust is a myth.It is a Jewish conspiracy

What people call terrorism is just an attempt to insult the exploits of great men in furtherance of the religion of peace.

When someone lands on the moon,it is an acheivement,but when someone lands 2 passenger planes on skyscrapers it is called terrorism .Is that not double standards?

@Sista
Ur medicine pls.U know how u are without ur medicine.U start attacking White people.I am going to tell the doc not to let u out of the asylum again

@Davidylan
Are u trying to link Iran with terrorism.All they are doing is the old Persian tradition of seperating human body parts by the use of explosives.Nothing wrong with that.Is it not a contribution to civilisation to be able to scatter human body parts .A head there,a leg there.Everyone has what they can contribute to mankind

alexitotee:
A friend want to know why is ejaculation too early in man. he has this experience and want to know how to go about having it corrected.he is not a Nairaland user, so I am asking for him as a friend because he confide in me.

@alexitotee
There is nothing wrong in admitting that u are the person who is the one minuteman.So u can't ram a punany for longer than a 100 metre sprint race.

U are screwed.HIDE ur head in shame