NwanyiAwkaetiti:
I Feel there's a supernatural being overseeing everything. Have you watched Hollywood Medium with Tyler? That show is an evidence that there is an afterlife.

holuwasheyiWGP:
Nice one Op..
THE GREATEST FORM OF DENIAL IS SAYING THERE IS NO GOD
I'm not done I'll be back

Martinez39:
As I have said, I don't know how the universe came about and I don't know if there is a creator or not even though I am inclined to believe that a natural process brought about the existence of everything. However, I am sure that all religious gods do not exist.

Kiddogarcia:
why would you believe,when you are talking about fact,am a muslim let's talk

Martinez39:
I said I don't know how things came to be but I am INCLINED to believe that a physical process that can be explained brought about everything. This is equivalent to saying that I don't know is the answer to question 6 is option A or B but if I am to choose one, I would go for B.

Kiddogarcia:
and i would be glad if you can explain that physical process,the only reason i can believe that your crap is if you can tell me how all living being started their existence.you coming up with evolution theory right?i got questions that will scare you,be warned

Kiddogarcia:
and i would be glad if you can explain that physical process,the only reason i can believe that your crap is if you can tell me how all living being started their existence.you coming up with evolution theory right?i got questions that will scare you,be warned

Martinez39:
Evolution doesn't explain the origin of the universe instead it explains how life on earth developed and advanced from simple organism to more complex organisms.

Kiddogarcia:
relax when reading,it helps bro.i never wrote universe.read again and give me answer to my questions

Martinez39:
The physical process I was talking about was related to the origin of the universe. And when challenging me to explain that physical process, you anticipated that I was going to introduce the theory of evolution. So I heard to make it clear that hat there was no chance of such happening. Seems you didn't read your post.

Kiddogarcia:
why don't you just explain this your physical process.why would expect me to believe there's no God when you don't have valid fact.

Martinez39:
Great take. Though people are different but I am not scared that god doesn't exist. I love the truth and I am not bothered by hopelessness or misfortune. For me, it's the truth even if it's not pleasant to the ears. I take life as it comes. I would like it if I could live forever or if there were a pleasant afterlife but I just have embrace facts and not lie to myself.

I appreciate the fact that others are not like me and they are free to[b] deceive themselves[/b] as long as they don't impose their believes on others. Me? depressed that there is no afterlife and god? Nah, I take life as it comes. I face my happiness and sorrows with hoping in a god. The only good thing about pessimism is that your mind is prepared for whatever comes.

Martinez39:


1) I don't know how the universe came to be.
2) I don't know how the universe came to be but I am INCLINED to believe that it came as a result of a physical process.
3) I don't know what this physical process is but I believe that, like all other physical processes, it can be explained when it's discovered.

Get it?

In addition, all religious gods do not exist. If you think your Allah exists, what sound evidences do you have to support his existence? If it turns out that there is a god in the end, it wouldn't be any of the religious gods known to man.

Martinez39:


1) I don't know how the universe came to be.
2) I don't know how the universe came to be but I am INCLINED to believe that it came as a result of a physical process.
3) I don't know what this physical process is but I believe that, like all other physical processes, it can be explained when it's discovered.

Mikolion87:
I stopped debating on this topic a long time ago, seeing that I have noticed how bias people can become especially when they have their mind already made up. It is much better when relating with a "realist" than an atheist or even most religious fanatics. For the mention, I am a realist, and yes, a Christian (but a free-minded and realistic one). I tend to make logical decisions from REALITY (realistic philosophical school of thought- realism) than idealism ( from ideas or non-factual thoughts). Having laid this premise, I'll start by knowing whether the OP really wants to learn the truth of life or has already made up his mind..


Some of the things written by the OP are true while others are not realistic.

-The realistic ones have always been there.. Even the bible, in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, including Sirach( Good news version) buttress the fact that there's the need to work hard to earn a living. Galatians 6:7 clearly states that a man reaps what he sows (I.e, when you do the right things you get the right results). There are also numerous quotations that encourages hard work . Ecc 9:10 states that, whatever thy hands finds to do, do with all thy might. etc etc. Even though some religious fanatics seat back and expect God to come down and perform miracles in areas that is clearly left for them. When one reads the bible in entirety, one would understand God's ways of working. It is wrong to choose a section and dwell on it as some religious fanatics do.. God has His role and we humans have our own roles to play too. But most people want God to come and perform their own roles for them, then later get frustrated when they don't get the right results.
Eccl 8:6 also buttress that there is always a proper way and time for every matter. That explains why people don't get the right results. There are laid down guidelines, realistic ways to live to get proper results in life.. All things being equal, when we do those right things and make right decisions, we'll get the right result (All things being equal). And the bible also mentions some of these things, "seeth thou a man diligent in his works,he shall stand before kings not mere men".. The bible is like God's manual of living (for the Christians). If we must be sincere, most people don't get results in life because, they do certain things the wrong way, and instead of learning how it should be done, they blame it on God. Even those who are born in poor homes can apply certain life principles (which the bible also teaches), such principles as
.humility, honesty, kindness, diligence,.. others such as, anger management, curtail extravagant living and proper planning.. while being constantly positioned for opportunities.. Most remain poor when they fail to spot opportunities that may come their way.


-Now as to whether God exists or not. That he has refused to provide manner for everyone on a platter of gold does not in any way mean he does not exist. He has provided a guide for living. So, whatever one sows, he reaps. No one can question Him.

.Come to think of it, even robots have makers, let alone being as complicated as humans. Everything is not only Physical. Life is begging for answers in many respects. But, if you critically view our reality, you'll find God's handwriting everywhere. Science may Have explained away the big bang theory, but have failed to clarify the source of the lightening and force that brought about the existence of the first product with well organized cells( which are all interlinked). I happened to have studied Medicine at a stage of my training in Dentistry/dental surgery. After seeing and studying the anatomy of man and the physiology, it will be laughable and even foolish to say, these things came about by chance. Even things carefully made by well organized and highly intellectual beings and scientists, end up having some loopholes and mistakes, let alone something made by "nobody" (chance,big bang theory).

.The way our world and the universe is organized also points to the existence of God. From the breaking of the day (when the sun rises) to the increased production of adrenocortical hormones in the human body (which increases alertness and activity), to sunset, leading to increase of serotonin (which signals rest). Or is it the different seasons... When you look at our universe, you'll notice orderliness and organization. You don't need a prophet to tell you all these are not products of chance. Except that man has contributed immensely to the expansion and beautification of the universe (by God-given knowledge), man also is the cause of several chaos in our world today.

. Now, concerning "village people" or spiritual wickedness, if you haven't experienced anything, it does not make it false. There are powers.. And some men use it either to torment others or for their protection. That is why today, we're talking about yahoo plus guys and using women's pants. Others use many other things for rituals... These things are not fake. You're probably not in tune with our reality. And I believe that God's role is majorly for those spiritual causes which we have no control over. That is where prayer comes in. Especially where diabolic persons may be trying to terminate your life or make you I'll by spiritual means, the Name of Jesus is very efficacious in this respect (I have experienced this personally).

There are so many things happening in our reality that has lent clarity to the fact that there is God. Except that, most people expect God to do everything for them.. God has laws and has made life and embedded principles into it. Failure to live by them results in misery and pains.

I have taken my time to type this so that you and many others can meditate on it and come to the truth of our reality and never be deceived.

Kiddogarcia:
i was expecting to see fact,but all i saw is i believe,i believe,when did you turned to Martin luther king.how can you come here to preach what you don't know.you don't even know about your so called "physical process" for two books to have stood the test of time,is just a proof of God.and inside those books there are predictions made hundred years ago,and the prediction is coming to reality now

Melvict:
Mr poster, I am happy you want to know more about God. well, I'm not an atheist and am proud to be a scientist. Evidence is a scientific approach and every other things in this world have there own approach. you need not to have evidence for everything on earth. even science contradicts itself.

Psychology as a science gets to a stage in a patients life when therapy is not appropriate to use but go for the source and foundation of the problems faced by the client. most times this problems are spiritual and we most times refer the person to solve his or her problems spiritually. Most of them come back with a successful result and there problems solved through spiritual means and most scientist do not doubt the existence of the supernatural.

Kiddogarcia:
i was expecting to see fact,but all i saw is i believe,i believe,when did you turned to Martin luther king.how can you come here to preach what you don't know.you don't even know about your so called "physical process" for two books to have stood the test of time,is just a proof of God .and inside those books there are predictions made hundred years ago,and the prediction is coming to reality now

Martinez39:


1) I don't know how the universe came to be.
2) I don't know how the universe came to be but I am INCLINED to believe that it came as a result of a physical process.
3) I don't know what this physical process is but I believe that, like all other physical processes, it can be explained when it's discovered.

Get it?

cigaricon:
Whether God exist or not is a thing of FAITH and BELIEF. You can choose to believe or not, nobody is forcing you, God Himself isn't going to force you to believe in Him. He doesn't have to prove to his Creatures that He exists Because HE MADE THEM ALL. Does a potter have to prove to the pot the fact that he made it?

And what makes you think it isn't you who is deceiving yourself?

cigaricon:


Well I know how the Universe came to be - GOD created it.

Martinez39:
. Those who want to see god in everything will see god in everything. I can't, for the life of me, see how one can call himself a christian and a realist. How can you look at the sun or the human body and say that god exists? What are the indications? Even if they lead us to conclude that god exists, how can you be sure that it is your god? Besides, go and read your Bible and know what it says and don't interpret things as you like.

Mikolion87:
I stopped debating on this topic a long time ago, seeing that I have noticed how bias people can become especially when they have their mind already made up. It is much better when relating with a "realist" than an atheist or even most religious fanatics. For the mention, I am a realist, and yes, a Christian (but a free-minded and realistic one). I tend to make logical decisions from REALITY (realistic philosophical school of thought- realism) than idealism ( from ideas or non-factual thoughts). Having laid this premise, I'll start by knowing whether the OP really wants to learn the truth of life or has already made up his mind..




Nice write up .. but there is something that baffles me and i would love you to answer me humans on earth are just programmed and i feel like we are all repeating the same thing that has happened decades ago will you call this human evolution or spiritual evolution ... for example some people who are literally poor will alway say i wish i was given birth to by a rich parent ,some people in nigeria will alway say why did God brought me to naija i wish i was USA citizen do you think the destiny of man is pre written or it just science that brought about human evolution on earth and decides to give them their family or country ..


Some of the things written by the OP are true while others are not realistic.

-The realistic ones have always been there.. Even the bible, in Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, including Sirach( Good news version) buttress the fact that there's the need to work hard to earn a living. Galatians 6:7 clearly states that a man reaps what he sows (I.e, when you do the right things you get the right results). There are also numerous quotations that encourages hard work . Ecc 9:10 states that, whatever thy hands finds to do, do with all thy might. etc etc. Even though some religious fanatics seat back and expect God to come down and perform miracles in areas that is clearly left for them. When one reads the bible in entirety, one would understand God's ways of working. It is wrong to choose a section and dwell on it as some religious fanatics do.. God has His role and we humans have our own roles to play too. But most people want God to come and perform their own roles for them, then later get frustrated when they don't get the right results.
Eccl 8:6 also buttress that there is always a proper way and time for every matter. That explains why people don't get the right results. There are laid down guidelines, realistic ways to live to get proper results in life.. All things being equal, when we do those right things and make right decisions, we'll get the right result (All things being equal). And the bible also mentions some of these things, "seeth thou a man diligent in his works,he shall stand before kings not mere men".. The bible is like God's manual of living (for the Christians). If we must be sincere, most people don't get results in life because, they do certain things the wrong way, and instead of learning how it should be done, they blame it on God. Even those who are born in poor homes can apply certain life principles (which the bible also teaches), such principles as
.humility, honesty, kindness, diligence,.. others such as, anger management, curtail extravagant living and proper planning.. while being constantly positioned for opportunities.. Most remain poor when they fail to spot opportunities that may come their way.


-Now as to whether God exists or not. That he has refused to provide manner for everyone on a platter of gold does not in any way mean he does not exist. He has provided a guide for living. So, whatever one sows, he reaps. No one can question Him.

.Come to think of it, even robots have makers, let alone being as complicated as humans. Everything is not only Physical. Life is begging for answers in many respects. But, if you critically view our reality, you'll find God's handwriting everywhere. Science may Have explained away the big bang theory, but have failed to clarify the source of the lightening and force that brought about the existence of the first product with well organized cells( which are all interlinked). I happened to have studied Medicine at a stage of my training in Dentistry/dental surgery. After seeing and studying the anatomy of man and the physiology, it will be laughable and even foolish to say, these things came about by chance. Even things carefully made by well organized and highly intellectual beings and scientists, end up having some loopholes and mistakes, let alone something made by "nobody" (chance,big bang theory).

.The way our world and the universe is organized also points to the existence of God. From the breaking of the day (when the sun rises) to the increased production of adrenocortical hormones in the human body (which increases alertness and activity), to sunset, leading to increase of serotonin (which signals rest). Or is it the different seasons... When you look at our universe, you'll notice orderliness and organization. You don't need a prophet to tell you all these are not products of chance. Except that man has contributed immensely to the expansion and beautification of the universe (by God-given knowledge), man also is the cause of several chaos in our world today.

. Now, concerning "village people" or spiritual wickedness, if you haven't experienced anything, it does not make it false. There are powers.. And some men use it either to torment others or for their protection. That is why today, we're talking about yahoo plus guys and using women's pants. Others use many other things for rituals... These things are not fake. You're probably not in tune with our reality. And I believe that God's role is majorly for those spiritual causes which we have no control over. That is where prayer comes in. Especially where diabolic persons may be trying to terminate your life or make you I'll by spiritual means, the Name of Jesus is very efficacious in this respect (I have experienced this personally).

There are so many things happening in our reality that has lent clarity to the fact that there is God. Except that, most people expect God to do everything for them.. God has laws and has made life and embedded principles into it. Failure to live by them results in misery and pains.

I have taken my time to type this so that you and many others can meditate on it and come to the truth of our reality and never be deceived.

1) THERE IS NO GOD AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN :

2) THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE :

14) EVERYTHING IS PHYSICAL, NOTHING IS SPIRITUAL :

No human being is spiritually endowed with special anointing, supernatural knowledge, spiritual gifts or any of those nonsenses. No one is special and can't do what you can't spiritually. Throw spiritual nonsenses away

"Sorrow is knowledge, those that know the most must mourn the deepest, the tree of knowledge is not the tree of life"
– Lord Byron

Amakavula:
My answer is going to be long , let me book space..

I am a fencist when it comes to God. Intelligent arguement would suggest God doesn't exist, but we all know the world isn't intelligent or logical.

On one part, believing there isn't a God is quite intelligent, but believing there isn't isn't fulfilling either. What we are left with without a believe in a great force is a void of hopeless and emptiness ; that our lives offer no purpose ( my supervisor from Japan mentioned how Japan is trying to get people more religious to avoid suicides )

I always likened the God argument to a person lost at Sea. There is a 10% chance people are coming to find you, or there is a 90% chance nobody is coming. But I would take 10% all the time due to the hope and believe it inspires. Which could determine how best I thrive for a better life.

Hopelessness isn't cool, Whether God exist or not could be debated back and forth with no conclusion, but Believe brings you assurance of a better future.

Compare this two scenerio: The Doctor says you got Cancer and there isn't a cure and you will die , and nothing can be done.

Or after going back Doctor says he made an error with the Cancer type , that you still got Cancer but people survive it 10% of the time.

The change in emotion in that person could be the difference between life or death. God is that 10%.


On life and meaning, we find our own meaning through our Passions. There is no collective purpose just individual things. I want to be a writer ( script Writer ) to inspire and educated people, that is my purpose and I hope to find fulfilment there.

Lastly there isn't a good thing about pessimism. it makes you depressed, achieve little and look at things in gloom. Cheer up love.

Martinez39:
I overestimated your intelligence. Since you have taken it upon your self to remain ignorant and irrational, thee is nothing I can do.

@bold
What?! are you kidding me? so both the bible and Quran are true because people still use and believe them? How can both books, which contradict each other, be valid? According to the Quran, Jesus is just a prophet but according to the Bible, Jesus is god and the son of god. The bible does not even mention Muhammad. SMH. I rest my case.

Martinez39:
When we are born, our minds are at tabula rasa. What we know depends on our environment, experiences, exposure and, where possible, the indoctrination our society has given us. Reality is such that no matter what we believe, it doesn't change and it doesn't care about our feelings. Given that many grew up believing the wrong things and are still believing these things, I find it important to set things straight. It might be that many are sensible but still not aware of certain things. Without wasting your time, here are hard facts about life.

1) THERE IS NO GOD AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN : a lot might not agree but I challenge you to show me any evidence that god exists. Your life struggle is yours to bear and no god is coming to help you out. No matter how much you pray, what god you believe in and how morally upright you are, nature will always take it's course and if you don't do the right thing, you won't get the right result. Religion, psychic stuffs and other spiritual stuffs are ridiculous falsehoods with no sound basis in reality. Do away with them and start facing reality.

2) THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE : once you die, that's it. Your cease existing forever after you die and there is no coming back. So do all you want now that you are alive. This world is all there is, there is no spiritual/unseen world. This is where you succeed, this is where you fail. If you don't make it here, forget it and there is no second chance. This is where you are happy, this where you are sad. Once time has passed, it can never be regained.

3) PEOPLE HAVE THEIR PRICE : people are not moral. With the right amount of money and desperation, people will do immoral and mean things. For many, morality is only when it's convenient. Learn not to trust anyone for even your enemies may smile a lot. Money reveals people's true colour. When it comes to money, people are not to be trusted and are mean spirited opportunists. When you have money, people (men and women) will gather round you. They don't give a damn about you but your money. Learn to say "no," spend your money on yourself and leave the rest for your children.

4) SUCCESS IS NEVER GUARANTEED UNTIL IT IS ACHIEVED : that boy or girl that looked almost certain to succeed might end up turning out to be a "failure" in future. That boy or girl that was looked down upon might be the highest achiever in future. No one, I repeat no one, can know the future. You might do everything right and die before you reap the fruit of your labour. You might suddenly have an accident or disease that would render you useless no matter how bright you were. You might be lucky to make it. There is nothing like a way to make it in life instead all you have are principles that increases your chances at making it in life but chances are what they are and are not certainty. Until it is achieved, success is not guaranteed.

5) LIFE ON EARTH HAS NO PURPOSE : you exist for no reason. The universe doesn't owe you any meaning to your existence. The meaning your life has is the meaning you give to it. There is nothing like destiny and fate. Your life is how you plan it.

6) NOT EVERYONE WILL MAKE IT IN LIFE : we all know this but still like to act like success is our birthright because we think our life is in the hands of an imaginary god. Even if we all work hard, not all of us will make it and you could be among those that don't make it. Even among those that succeed, there will be variation. Some will make it early while some will make it late. Some will be privileged to be born in a successful family while some will be born in poor families.

7) YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL : that HIV you hear about can happen to you. That cancer you hear about can happen to you. That rape you read about in the news can happen to you. That ghastly accident you read on nairaland, newspaper and see on tv can happen to you. In short anything bad can happen to you. That untimely death you see and hear from wherever can happen to you. Who the hell are you to think that you are immune to these things?

THE UNIVERSE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT MORALITY. ALL IS CAUSE AND EFFECT : good things happen to bad people; good things happen to good people; bad things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. Do the right thing and you will get the right result. It doesn't matter whether your approach is legal or not (legality and illegality are man's construct), apply the rules and you will get the right results. Cause and effect agrees with the strong overcoming the weak that's why your corrupt and powerful politician can unduly put you in jail and you will rot there no matter how morally upright you are. Your saving grace is if there is a more powerful force to save you and keep him in check. The universe cares about rules and facts not morality and your constitution.

9) INJUSTICE, NO KARMA AND WICKEDNESS : The universe doesn't care about your wellbeing and disputes. That guy that raped you might never be caught and would go on to marry and be happy till he dies while you struggle to make a living. That rich guy that snatched your girlfriend or the girlfriend that cruelly snubbed you and went for a rich man might end up building a happy marriage and home while you keep on struggling. Justice is man's duty to uphold. That man that stole all your money might invest it and be successful while you rot away; that man or woman that stole your idea might use it to make billions while you rot away into oblivion and poverty; that fake friend that cruelly snubbed you during your hard time might live a life of fulfilment while you rot away in misery; that cultist that shot your sister might never be found and may go on to live a successful and happy life. There is nothing like karma, if man doesn't seek justice then justice will never be implemented. Sorry for you if you think god will avenge your hurt and fight your battles. Sorry for you if the person you want to bring justice upon is very powerful. Take heart, it's life.

... to be continued

Veiniously:
In conclusion nobody have a sound evidence
Please i want thiS thread to end

I just know 1 thing it better i die in doing the right thing and believing God exist and die to find out their isn't or die and find out their is than to

Die feeling their is no God and found out their is


It wont do you any good

TheEminentLaity:
@martinez39 Interesting post. Personally, I think Nigeria as a country would change dramatically to a very productive nation if majority of the people have these principles as foundations in their culture and traditions. However, this reads as one written with a high degree of certainty that one – not excluding atheists and nihilists – cannot help but question how you arrived at some of your suppositions.

Other than making the exact opposite claim of religious fundamentalists about God, I do not fault your explanation. You cannot prove that there isn't a god (god would have to be defined; and it is, as you know, a fruitless hyperloop argument)

The message is apt. Live life, focus on what is ... but again, you cannot prove that there is no afterlife, so you especially – as one who supposedly arrive at positions with logic – cannot also make such claims. Don't know if you've come across 'NDERF' ... it may not disprove or prove anything but I'm inclined that you may find it interesting.

Suppositions of dogmatic certainty is antithetical to logic. People develop special abilities and strengths – some stronger, faster, super brains etc. The term 'supernatural' may just be semantics for an outlier ability resulting from evolution, genes or and even accidents. There are and have existed geniuses and phenomenal savants throughout history. 'Spirituality' and 'spiritual' on the other hand, are somewhat ambiguous and relative depending on whom one might be talking to. People who meditate for their well-being might refer to such as spirituality while other who babble in glossolalia would also say such is an aspect of spirituality. Throw superstitions away, perhaps? YES! by all means.

No really knowledgeable person speaks with utmost certainty like the religious folks because the more one learns, the more one's ignorance is revealed and the more one realizes that they know nothing. There are a good number of unexplained phenomena – call it mysteries – and theories for what is known in science that would be obsolete, if not outright wrong in the future. So, we really cannot be so sure.