We muslims hear and obey. Whatever Allah (swt) commands us to do, we do it without hesitation for He is All-Knowing, Most Merciful.
I know little about geography and i will say the direction of the qibla depends on your location on the surface of the earth. While some muslims face East, others don't just like how one side of the Earth sees day light, and the other side sees darkness.

If you take a look at any world map, there is what they call longitude and latitude. Some parts of the world live East of the Greenwich and the other part live West of the Greenwich. Nigeria is situated East of the Greenwich.Likewise Saudi Arabia that's why we face East when we want to pray. Muslims in America don't face East when they want to pray because they live West of the Greenwich. Literally we don't face East, we face North East that is 90degrees East of the Greenwich. I studied map reading very well in secondary school that's how i came about this.

While i was attending the Air Force Military School in Jos, we were taught how to locate a point on any map and find our way through the jungle to our destination. I am sure most of us know about bearing in mathematics. If you do then you will find this easy to understand. We would be taken far into the bush and we will be given a topographical map, compass, binoculars and we will have to find certain things on our way to prove that we are on the right track.

Now back to basis. The Qibla is in Mecca. Nigeria lies about 3-15 degrees North of the Equator. Saudi Arabia lies about 40 degrees North of the Equator this makes the two countries to be in the same hemisphere. Get a map, Find Nigeria and Saudi Arabia and draw the four cardinal points on each country;N,E,W,S. Get a ruler and join these two places with a straight line then you will see that Muslims in Nigeria don't face east per se but North East. Similarly do the same thing for a country like Australia and you will find out that their directions are different. If you have time do the same thing for other countries like America, Finland, Canada, Greece etc.

The bottom line here is that countries that live West of Saudi Arabia face East to pray and countries that live East of Saudi Arabia face Westwards towards the Qibla to pray.

I hope this small piece makes a lot of sense.

I think the first thing is to clear this misconception about the word "Allah".Allah is the arabic word for God.Just the way God is Olorun in yoruba and God in english.The reason it is favoured by muslims is because it's unique.it cannot be attributed to other beings and it cannot be feminized.Other languages' words for God can be attributed to other things.For instance,Someone that believes that a stone is his God can pray to a stone and refer to it as "Olorun",God in english can also be feminized to become "godess".Allah is God(or God is God whatever!).He's the creator and sustainer of all that exists simple!

Telly B:

If every Muslim faces East, they cannot all be facing the kaa'ba.

If every Muslim is facing the Kaa'ba, they cannot all be facing East.

I can assure u that myself and an ss1 student would be at par as regards geography .,so i'm not going to dable into someone's east is another person's west!.Facing the east is about unification.I can get to any strange land and blend in with the local muslims at once.I get to worship my God exactly the way i worshipped Him at home.i don't feel uncomfortable because they are facing north or west.And,as quoted in previous posts,yes God is everywhere.He affirms that in the Quran and when you don't know where the east is,no problem,He says in the Quran,face anywhere when u're not sure.

Sometimes,When God gives a command,there seems to be no logic to it because of our limited understanding as humans.But,No body can deny the fact that muslims are the most united people on earth.Something as "illogical or trivial" as facing the same direction is what has given us our unity.

Finally,lets assume there's no unity dimension to it.the command is just there "face the east" I really don't know what the fuss is about.It's God's world,it's His rules.Many before us were given outrageous things to do.Abraham was asked to kill his son!(i'm sure that didn't make sense to him),The mother of Moses was asked to put him in a basket and put him in the river(i'm a woman and i know that is really hard to swallow ).The point is faith is what drove them to obey.and faith is what drives us.

@TellyB

It seems to be,(but i hope not) that u're one of those that God refers to in the Quran as those who will not beleive even if angels were to come down to give the message.And who am i to dispute.He created you and He knows your type.I can only pray that He softens ur heart for u to c the truth.You ask a question and when u get the answer,you debunk it on the flimsy ground that the authority quoted is not reliable. i wonder who made u an authority on all subjects.Guess u must have lived about 1000 years b4 Muhammad and known so much about embryology.And guess you would know more than Keith Moore who revised his book on embryology to include facts that he found in the Quran.

your claim that muslim traditions have been changed really is laughable.No body can change the laws of Allah.Ever since man was created,Some have obeyed God and some have not.Does that take away the rules?you need to apply some logic here bro.

#1. Muhammad prohibited the making of pictures, threatening that anyone making them will be punished with the severest punishment of Allah on judgement Day. Guess what?? Muslims today pay no attention to his threats; and most of the pictures I posted are from Muslim sites!! 

Ans: Pictures of animate objects are those that are disallowed.And even if some muslims take pictures of animate objects.Does their disobedience change the law?

#2. The claim has been made that Muhammad performed miracles. Guess what? Most muslims today simply don't buy into that for the simple reason that none of his were recorded in 'Allah's book - the Qur'an!!'

i don't know which muslims u've been talking to,but our books are the Quran(the word of God) and the hadith(the sayings and deeds of the prophet).Any muslim that says he doesn't beleive in the hadith is wrong.The only issue with hadiths is that some mischeif makers try to fabricate stories which is why there's a science of hadith and those that have been fabricated are exposed.
Besides,the splitting of the moon that was performed by the prophet when the pagans told him if he did that,they would beleive is documented in the Quran!

#3. The rascal joke of Human Embryology in Islam has been debunked - and solidly so!! Guess what?? Scholars in Islamic science no longer pay attention to the show man naik Zakir!!

Great! u're now so knowledgeable,u know who is and who is not an islamic scholar.U may want to mention them if u know them.

#4. the claim has been made by the same set of apologists that the Torah of the Qur'an is LOST!! Guess what?? That idea is fast losing popularity among reasonable Muslims who don't stoop so low to make that al-taqiyya claim. In the Hadith, Muhammad handled confessed that he believed in the Torah that the Jews used - the very same one that the Jews still have!!

You may want to take this topic to your fellow christians coz even you folks are still trying to decide whether or not ur book is accurate.You may go thru the cnn archives to get details on their documentary on the errors found in the bible.Don't even try to bring the up topic of authenticity of the bible.even an unborn child know the bible has been tampered with and has a zillion errors!


Now my question:
(1)Can someone tell me why we have christians in naija when Jesus Himself said he was sent to the lost sheep of isreal and that the message would not have gone round by the time he comes back.[/color]

(2)God says in the Quran that Jesus didn't die.He was raised up and it was made to appear to his persecutors that they killed him.Interestingly,Hebrew 5:7 says Jesus prayed to God not to be killed and his prayer was answered.Where does that leave the whole crucification thing?[color=#000099]

A gang of sobbing muslims doing aught but recycling the same old lies, contradictions and hypocrisy that has been debunked many times over.

@albatross,

Thank you for your rejoinder, and you're welcome to the Forum.

albatros:

I think the first thing is to clear this misconception about the word "Allah".Allah is the arabic word for God.Just the way God is Olorun in yoruba and God in english.The reason it is favoured by muslims is because it's unique.it cannot be attributed to other beings and it cannot be feminized.Other languages' words for God can be attributed to other things.For instance,Someone that believes that a stone is his God can pray to a stone and refer to it as "Olorun",God in english can also be feminized to become "godess".Allah is God(or God is God whatever!).He's the creator and sustainer of all that exists simple!

I think the issue of language names for "God" has been treated in other threads. The issue here is about Facing the East to Pray; and I would like to stick with that.

Besides, if it is only a matter of language at all, why is the word 'allah' unique; and others not unique?? It is convenient to refer to other people's object of worship as "stone" and call it "Olorun" - which is the usual Islamic thing to do. I would rather appreciate that if you don't have a good grasp of your subjects, please try keeping your persuasions to yourself. Those Yoruba people could as well refer to the Arabs who worship stone and call that by the arabic word for g-d. How does that make you feel??

albatros:

I can assure u that myself and an ss1 student would be at par as regards geography .,so i'm not going to dable into someone's east is another person's west!.Facing the east is about unification.I can get to any strange land and blend in with the local muslims at once.I get to worship my God exactly the way i worshipped Him at home.i don't feel uncomfortable because they are facing north or west.And,as quoted in previous posts,yes God is everywhere.He affirms that in the Quran and when you don't know where the east is,no problem,He says in the Quran,face anywhere when u're not sure.

Two issues immediately come to the fore here:

      (a) No one is asking whether or not Muslims feel comfortable wherever they turn to pray. However, the idea that East is West and West is East all are the same is just one of those issues that ridicule reason, scholarship, and honesty. How long are we going to be hearing these claims and going along with it - and at the end of the day, Muslims will stand up to tell us that their religion is "very scientific!" Pleaaase!!

      (b) The tenets of islam are not as brashly condescending as you want to sound here! If it really doesn't matter wherever one faces (whether in prayer or answering natures call) why the big deal that Muslims themselves make out of facing or not facing the direction of the EAST??

No, your ideas and answers here are gravely faulty.

albatros:

Sometimes,When God gives a command,there seems to be no logic to it because of our limited understanding as humans.

I can go along with that; and it doesn't have to be only in Islam or Christianity. This logic can also be found in other worldviews - and we should respect them.

albatros:

But,No body can deny the fact that muslims are the most united people on earth.Something as "illogical or trivial" as facing the same direction is what has given us our unity.

I have my doubts as to your claim here for unity. Islam has well over 70 different factions, deeply [b]DIS[/b]united over many issues - some of which if I tender, I might as well run the risk of being labelled a blasphemer!! So, your unity here is as much the opposite claim.

albatros:

Now my question:

. . . and when we ask our own questions they come crying and lamenting!  

albatros:

(1)Can someone tell me why we have christians in naija when Jesus Himself said he was sent to the lost sheep of isreal and that the message would not have gone round by the time he comes back.[/color]

[color=#990000]Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
  35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

albatros:

(2)God says in the Quran that Jesus didn't die.He was raised up and it was made to appear to his persecutors that they killed him.Interestingly,Hebrew 5:7 says Jesus prayed to God not to be killed and his prayer was answered.Where does that leave the whole crucification thing?[/color]

1. Who is that "god" talking in the quran? It has been proved beyond doubt that he is NOT the same God as refered to in the bible.

2. It is the usual islamic revisionism to quote one verse in the bible out of context and then attempt to build a theology on it: look closely at the verse you are attempting to twist

[color=#990000]Hebrews 5: 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

. . . but in your mischief you forgot to mention the very next 2 verses:

  8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

What were the things he suffered in obedience to? Phillipians 2: 8 gives us a clearer picture:
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 5: 9 further confirms his death on the cross:
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The christian salvation is hinged on the death of Jesus Christ on the cross of calvary. Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Unlike muslims who sob and cry, christians give concrete evidence backed up with scriptures about their faith. Because WE KNOW WHAT WE HAVE BELIEVED, THEY ARE NOT CUNNINGLY DEVISED FABLES.

@albatross,

albatros:

Finally,lets assume there's no unity dimension to it.the command is just there "face the east" I really don't know what the fuss is about.

"Face the EAST" is as much as facing the WEST for the other half of the Muslim population (not to mention those who have to face NORTH and SOUTH)!!!

albatros:

It's God's world,it's His rules.Many before us were given outrageous things to do.

Are we here dicussing "outrageous things" or what??

albatros:

Abraham was asked to kill his son!(i'm sure that didn't make sense to him),The mother of Moses was asked to put him in a basket and put him in the river(i'm a woman and i know that is really hard to swallow ).The point is faith is what drove them to obey.and faith is what drives us.

Is it faith that drives the jihadists to hope for 72 virgins for blowing up innocent souls?

If that came across as way too skewed, please forgive me - and count it as way too skewed to be discussing the issue of KILL-KILL-KILL in this thread. When we get there, we'll sit round a table and iron it out.

albatros:

@TellyB

It seems to be,(but i hope not) that u're one of those that God refers to in the Quran as those who will not beleive even if angels were to come down to give the message.

Thanks for the slobber; but angels sent by God do not come confusing us. If they ask me to go EAST and I go NORTH, is it the same thing we're talking about??

albatros:

And who am i to dispute.He created you and He knows your type.I can only pray that He softens your heart for u to c the truth.

I have been told by one of your apologists that Islam does not recognize the Biblical Jesus Christ. Can you please tell me whether or not he is correct or wrong??

albatros:

You ask a question and when u get the answer,you debunk it on the flimsy ground that the authority quoted is not reliable.

I have not debunked issues on "flimsy grounds". You could as well bring out the the fallacies of my "proofs, facts, evidences, pictures and maps" - and if you can prove them gravely mistaken, I'll promptly apologise and remove them. Thank you.

albatros:

i wonder who made u an authority on all subjects.

I wonder who made babs787 and your Muslim apologists on the Forum the authorities to demand anything of anyone; especially his usual dribbling around issues with "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST!" What's with all that?

albatros:

Guess u must have lived about 1000 years before Muhammad and known so much about embryology.

Was I wrong about Gale of Pergamum? Please show how. Thanks.

albatros:

And guess you would know more than Keith Moore who revised his book on embryology to include facts that he found in the Quran.

If Keith Moore was pretending that such scientific fields of Medicine and Biology were not known in Muhammad's day, it would be such a shame!!

albatros:

your claim that muslim traditions have been changed really is laughable.No body can change the laws of Allah.

Oh, I see. And who abrogated and cancelled verses in the Qur'an?? Answer me and throw my mouth in the bin on this one!!  

albatros:

Ever since man was created,Some have obeyed God and some have not.Does that take away the rules?you need to apply some logic here bro.

The Islamic logic has been nailed to the coffin. Period.

albatros:

#1. Muhammad prohibited the making of pictures, threatening that anyone making them will be punished with the severest punishment of Allah on judgement Day. Guess what?? Muslims today pay no attention to his threats; and most of the pictures I posted are from Muslim sites!!  

Ans: Pictures of animate objects are those that are disallowed.And even if some muslims take pictures of animate objects.Does their disobedience change the law?

First, I have said the types of pictures are of HUMAN BEINGS and ANIMALS - not trees and popcorn!!

Second, your dribbling is saying that "even if" people have disobeyed, it would not change the law. Good, and I'm happy for you. The next time you check you album, burn all your pictures and any newsprint, magazine, books etc that have pictures! Is it not true then that the law has not been changed??

@albatross,

albatros:

#2. The claim has been made that Muhammad performed miracles. Guess what? Most muslims today simply don't buy into that for the simple reason that none of his were recorded in 'Allah's book - the Qur'an!!'

i don't know which muslims u've been talking to,but our books are the Quran(the word of God) and the hadith(the sayings and deeds of the prophet).Any muslim that says he doesn't beleive in the hadith is wrong.The only issue with hadiths is that some mischeif makers try to fabricate stories which is why there's a science of hadith and those that have been fabricated are exposed.

I didn't make reference to the Hadith, as you can see in my post that you quoted.

Meanwhile, after all "the science of the hadith", which Muslim has come out to establish any verse of the Qur'an showing that Muhammad indeed performed a miracle? If you care to follow the discussion where this issue has been nailed to its coffin, please see the link:

              https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48380.128.html#msg1123113

albatros:

Besides,the splitting of the moon that was performed by the prophet when the pagans told him if he did that,they would beleive is documented in the Quran!

Can you please tell me why that is NOT in the Qur'an?? Is that not part of the same Hadith you allege of mischief??

albatros:

#3. The rascal joke of Human Embryology in Islam has been debunked - and solidly so!! Guess what?? Scholars in Islamic science no longer pay attention to the show man naik Zakir!!

Great! u're now so knowledgeable,u know who is and who is not an islamic scholar.U may want to mention them if u know them.

Please give me a few names that make you happy; and then I'll gladly show you their rascal adventures and what they DON'T want people like you to know!! Please just a few is all I ask!

albatros:

#4. the claim has been made by the same set of apologists that the Torah of the Qur'an is LOST!! Guess what?? That idea is fast losing popularity among reasonable Muslims who don't stoop so low to make that al-taqiyya claim. In the Hadith, Muhammad handled confessed that he believed in the Torah that the Jews used - the very same one that the Jews still have!!

You may want to take this topic to your fellow christians because even you folks are still trying to decide whether or not your book is accurate.

Please stop sobbing. Just give me the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an; and save the noise for the busy streets of Idumota.

albatros:

You may go through the cnn archives to get details on their documentary on the errors found in the bible.Don't even try to bring the up topic of authenticity of the bible.even an unborn child know the bible has been tampered with and has a zillion errors!

Thanks again. It was the same zillions of errors that Allah claimed in the Qur'an that he has sent down!

albatros:

Now my question:
(1)Can someone tell me why we have christians in naija when Jesus Himself said he was sent to the lost sheep of isreal and that the message would not have gone round by the time he comes back.

Dealt with by davidylan above. Please refer.

albatros:

(2)God says in the Quran that Jesus didn't die.He was raised up and it was made to appear to his persecutors that they killed him.

If that claim holds any substance, could you please answer this simple question: WHO was the substitute that Muslims always claim was put in His place on the Cross?

albatros:

Interestingly,Hebrew 5:7 says Jesus prayed to God not to be killed and his prayer was answered.Where does that leave the whole crucification thing?

Heb. 5:7
"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared."

The Bible speaks of death in several ways: (a) when someone "sleeps" (John 11:11-14 >> "Lazarus sleepth. . .Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."; also speaks of the sinful spiritual state/condition of man (Eph. 2:5 -- "we were dead in sins"; etc.

When Jesus prayed in Heb. 5:7, it was in reference to the world of the dead. That the verse mentions that it was "in the days of His flesh" should make us understand that indeed His prayer was heard, as it is stated in Acts 2 --


"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. . . He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption" (verses 27 & 31).

That Heb. 5:7 does not mean that he was afraid to die is clear from at least these two verses:

Matt. 26:39  --  "And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Joh 10:17-18
"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus was not afraid of DEATH. He actually died and rose again - and the same book of Hebrews speaks of His death:


Heb. 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise
took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;

Heb 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd
of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

Did you miss all these in the same Book of Hebrews before you hung your hopes on ch. 5:7??

to give a little history, based on books I have read:

back in the day when Islam and Christianity co-existed peacefully, both religions prayed in Jerusalem. Somewhere along the line (sorry, my memory gets a little fuzzy here as to the reasons), there was a conflict and from that point henceforth, muslims left Jerusalem and in addition started facing the east towards Mecca.

The book is on my bookshelf somewhere. I just have to find it. Trust me though, that's what's in there and the book was written by a credible author

my2cents:

to give a little history, based on books I have read:

back in the day when Islam and Christianity co-existed peacefully, both religions prayed in Jerusalem. Somewhere along the line (sorry, my memory gets a little fuzzy here as to the reasons), there was a conflict and from that point henceforth, muslims left Jerusalem and in addition started facing the east towards Mecca.

The book is on my bookshelf somewhere. I just have to find it. Trust me though, that's what's in there and the book was written by a credible author

What exactly is your drivel about on? We have thousands of authors coming with all their propanga of nonsense decieving the world and it has actually made the world a horror to behold sometimes.

At least a muslim folk here has called some of your authentic muslim authors to be deluded authors.

A question has been raised here that demands an answer!

@mrpataki,

mrpataki:

What exactly is your drivel about on? We have thousands of authors coming with all their propanga of nonsense decieving the world and it has actually made the world a horror to behold sometimes.

Lol. . . let's what and read his sequel. He may actually not be drivelling; and we can't really say anything until he has posted his write-ups.

mrpataki:

At least a muslim folk here has called some of your authentic muslim authors to be deluded authors.

Point of correction: he called them "deluded authors that lied in order to deceive"!! 

                https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.32.html#msg1108087
         

mrpataki:

A question has been raised here that demands an answer!

Several questions, actually. And we are still waiting for their answers! 

. . . . . . . . . . Seriously where did all this all these muslims pop up from? Mo must have good mercenaries.

My Question also is this: Is the Ka'bah the universal locator to determine where is the East, South , West and North?

@ Telly B,

. . . . . . . . .lol Am beginning to ask myself when I will stop been humbled by intellectuals of your type!

You are simply outstanding! Keep the love of Christ flying!

God Bless you greatly. Am honored to read to from you and several others here!

@sandoka,

sandoka:

We muslims hear and obey. Whatever Allah (swt) commands us to do, we do it without hesitation for He is All-Knowing, Most Merciful.
I know little about geography and i will say the direction of the qibla depends on your location on the surface of the earth. While some muslims face East, others don't just like how one side of the Earth sees day light, and the other side sees darkness.

Okay, thanks for being honest there!  

sandoka:

If you take a look at any world map, there is what they call longitude and latitude. Some parts of the world live East of the Greenwich and the other part live West of the Greenwich. Nigeria is situated East of the Greenwich.Likewise Saudi Arabia that's why we face East when we want to pray. Muslims in America don't face East when they want to pray because they live West of the Greenwich.

Anoda honest remark! Are you even Muslim??  

sandoka:

Literally we don't face East, we face North East that is 90degrees East of the Greenwich. I studied map reading very well in secondary school that's how i came about this.

See?? We're still counting!!  

sandoka:

While i was attending the Air Force Military School in Jos, we were taught how to locate a point on any map and find our way through the jungle to our destination. I am sure most of us know about bearing in mathematics.

I also had that kind of training.

sandoka:

If you do then you will find this easy to understand.

I'm following you. . . until you bend comot for corner!!  

sandoka:

We would be taken far into the bush and we will be given a topographical map, compass, binoculars and we will have to find certain things on our way to prove that we are on the right track.

Correct!

sandoka:

Now back to basis. The Qibla is in Mecca. Nigeria lies about 3-15 degrees North of the Equator. Saudi Arabia lies about 40 degrees North of the Equator this makes the two countries to be in the same hemisphere. Get a map, Find Nigeria and Saudi Arabia and draw the four cardinal points on each country;N,E,W,S. Get a ruler and join these two places with a straight line then you will see that Muslims in Nigeria don't face east per se but North East. Similarly do the same thing for a country like Australia and you will find out that their directions are different. If you have time do the same thing for other countries like America, Finland, Canada, Greece etc.

Correct guy! A1 for you o jare!  
Is that not what I have been trying to put across to our friends?? And someone is telling me about qiblah detector!!

sandoka:

The bottom line here is that countries that live West of Saudi Arabia face East to pray and countries that live East of Saudi Arabia face Westwards towards the Qibla to pray.

I hope this small piece makes a lot of sense.

M-e-n!! You made huge sense!!  
And thank you.

@mrpataki,

mrpataki:



. . . . . . . . . . Seriously where did all this all these muslims pop up from? Mo must have good mercenaries.

I don't know. Perhaps just like I stumbled across this site!

mrpataki:

My Question also is this: Is the Ka'bah the universal locator to determine where is the East, South , West and North?

Nope. Only rascals who can't afford to be honest with themselves will make claims like that.

mrpataki:

@ Telly B,

. . . . . . . . .lol Am beginning to ask myself when I will stop been humbled by intellectuals of your type!

Okay, I'm very very sorry about that. Lol. Honestly, I am. It shouldn't have come across like that; but you're such a good brother (in my opinion) to get along with.

mrpataki:

You are simply outstanding! Keep the love of Christ flying!

I'm dazed. . .lol. Outstanding?? I be olodo O!

mrpataki:

God Bless you greatly. Am honored to read to from you and several others here!

I'm really honoured to be a member of the Forum, because in such a short time I have learnt volumes from so many people.

God bless.

Mr. Pataki, I guess the asbestos that was in the air on 9/11 has somehow gotten through your blood system and is wreaking havoc on your brain cells for you to be replying based on emotions on not intellect. Or are you actually not in New York (based on your username) and actually under Olumo Rock?

Are there bad authors? sure. But there are good ones as well. The one I am actually talking about is a muslim. So I am wondering why he would lie. Hmmmmm. Some stuff granted, can be ridiculous. You should be mature enough to not be gullible but to read from all angles and take out the pieces that make sense to you. Most importantly, you shouldn't take anything anyone says (including myself ) until you have verified it to be true for yourself. I took the author to task and I indeed verified for myself that it is true. Sorry. Strike 1.

I am not the stereotypical poster on NL that you may have in mind. Anything I post on here is based on fact. But once again, don't take anything I say to be true unless you verify it for yourself to be indeed true. That of course means you should actually do some research instead of making blanket emotionaly statements.

I will endeavour to take your post to me seriatim. You really want to step to me, then am game with you.

my2cents:

Mr. Pataki, I guess the asbestos that was in the air on 9/11 has somehow gotten through your blood system and is wreaking havoc on your brain cells for you to be replying based on emotions on not intellect. Or are you actually not in New York (based on your username) and actually under Olumo Rock?

Please correct that bad English there. You should know better than that. Based in New York for where Did you not observe my location? Are you as well that deluded not to know any bettter?

my2cents:

Are there bad authors? sure. But there are good ones as well. The one I am actually talking about is a muslim. So I am wondering why he would lie. Hmmmmm. Some stuff granted, can be ridiculous. You should be mature enough to not be gullible but to read from all angles and take out the pieces that make sense to you. Most importantly, you shouldn't take anything anyone says (including myself ) until you have verified it to be true for yourself. I took the author to task and I indeed verified for myself that it is true. Sorry. Strike 1.

Did you bother to read the link that Telly B gave above, showing how one of your Muslim brothers called Yusuf Ali and the rest deluded Authors, which I clearly stated? Please try to reason better next time and stop being mawkish.

my2cents:

I am not the stereotypical poster on Nairaland that you may have in mind. Anything I post on here is based on fact. But once again, don't take anything I say to be true unless you verify it for yourself to be indeed true. That of course means you should actually do some research instead of making blanket emotionaly statements.

Good for you, but next time think it twice before you move up to my level!

I don't stoop to the low level of "being game" to anything bros. I don't argue emotionally either. However, I must answer your questions:

Please correct that bad English there. You should know better than that. Based in New York for where Huh Did you not observe my location? Are you as well that deluded not to know any bettter?

Read my post again. I am sure if you light a candle "under the rock" you will note that I mentioned Olumo Rock (which, the last time I checked was in Ogun state (or at least the former ogun state) )

Did you bother to read the link that Telly B gave above, showing how one of your Muslim brothers called Yusuf Ali and the rest deluded Authors, which I clearly stated? Please try to reason better next time and stop being mawkish.

1) If you meant that literally, then, I am not muslim. That doesn't stop me from reading about them or any other religion for that matter. By reading about other religions, I can better argue intellectually (not emotionally) based on what I know and not what I have been indoctrinated on.

2) you can't say that just cos there may be 1 million "deluded" authors, that the others are deluded as well.

Good for you, but next time think it twice before you move up to my level!

Which level be that? "Under the rock" levels?

Comot there my2cents and mrpataki!   Is this your own version of fighting while facing east?  

enuff of the bland arguement,muslims face the east when praying because that is wat Allah says and that is the location of the kaaba.any muslim anywhere in the world knows that,and so they face the east.if u are in any part of the world ur east is ur east it does not move because u are in helsinki or japan or even calabar,east is east.imagine the beauty of muslims all over the World praying to Allah all facing one direction,this does not mean that God is in a particular place but u face the sacred house.the holy kaaba was used as a place of idol worshipping b4 the advent of islam and that house was built by Abraham who was one of Allah favorite prophets,Allah has chosen it therefore it is sacred.and pls Islam says seek for knowlegde,find out the right manner and stop stop being bias those that are being bias,any way islam is not for all but and if u dont believe does noot mean u pass annoying remarks.

jiddah:

enough of the bland arguement,muslims face the east when praying because that is what Allah says and that is the location of the kaaba.any muslim anywhere in the world knows that,and so they face the east.

That would be arguing with eyes closed to the facts. At least, another Muslim who has a good knowledge of simple Geography has admitted that is not the case!! Scroll up and see sandoka's frank and no-nonsense post!

jiddah:

if u are in any part of the world your east is your east it does not move because u are in helsinki or japan or even calabar,east is east.

Another argument from eyes closed. The East for Australians is not the East of South Americans.

jiddah:

imagine the beauty of muslims all over the World praying to Allah all facing one direction,

What direction? Is Allah located in the east? Is it not to the Kaa'ba that they direct their faces when praying?

jiddah:

this does not mean that God is in a particular place but u face the sacred house.

If God is not in a particular place, what is so vital about facing one direction?

jiddah:

the holy kaaba was used as a place of idol worshipping before the advent of islam and that house was built by Abraham who was one of Allah favorite prophets,

Good. Now you're coming home closer to truth. Can you please tell us why Muhammad retained the BLACK STONE after asking that all other idols be swept out of the Kaa'ba??

jiddah:

Allah has chosen it therefore it is sacred.and please Islam says seek for knowlegde,find out the right manner and stop stop being bias those that are being bias,

How have you argued out your case from knowledge if your Geography is skewed? Is your bias rather not bland?

jiddah:

any way islam is not for all but and if u don't believe does noot mean u pass annoying remarks.

What annoying remarks? How has questioning the idea of a faulty device stationed "EAST" now become annoying remarks??

i think people shd be allowed to worship God in whatever way, facing wherever.
what's important is making sure the worship gets to GOD

@Telly B
i relli envy your knowledge

Here comes another member of the muslim solidarity movement!  

jiddah:

enough of the bland arguement,muslims face the east when praying because that is what Allah says and that is the location of the kaaba.any muslim anywhere in the world knows that,and so they face the east.if u are in any part of the world your east is your east it does not move because u are in helsinki or japan or even calabar,east is east.

Did you pass Geography in school at all? Does east face the same direction for Libyans, Finnish, Dutch and Ghanains? If east is east wherever you are then what is the purpose of having a compass?
Dont disgrace your alma matter by repeating your claim that east does not change whether you move from one part of the globe to another!

jiddah:

imagine the beauty of muslims all over the World praying to Allah all facing one direction,

No wonder! The most violent religious riots occur after friday prayers. so much for unity!

jiddah:

this does not mean that God is in a particular place but u face the sacred house.

since God is not in a particular place, can you let us know why muslims all over the world fall on their faces before a small stone in mecca 5 times a day?

jiddah:

the holy kaaba was used as a place of idol worshipping before the advent of islam and that house was built by Abraham who was one of Allah favorite prophets,

For once! Someone agrees the ka'aba was a shrine devoted to idols before mohammad came with his fairy tales. The LIE that the Abraham of the bible built the ka'aba has been debunked several times over! If indeed Abraham built the ka'aba, it would be a sacred place for the jews today. The wells that abraham and jacob built in the book of Genesis remains a sacred place in the land of Isreal to this day. why have they ignored the ka'aba that mohammed alleges abraham built?
How could abraham who lived more than 4000 yrs ago have built a ka'aba that is less than 2000 yrs old?

If indeed abraham was one of allah's favorite prophets, where are the revelations allah claimed to have sent to him? What is the significance of abraham in islam beyond merely using his name to legitimise a fraudulent religion?

jiddah:

Allah has chosen it therefore it is sacred.

none of you has been able to tell us the significance of the black stone!

jiddah:

and please Islam says seek for knowlegde,

Did islam really say so? What kind of knowledge? The kind that claims that the sun sets in a muddy spring? That man is made from a blood clot? That the earth is flat and the mountains support it like tent pegs? That east is east whether in Japan or Mexico? That the iris can fall on a man's cheek?

jiddah:

find out the right manner and stop stop being bias those that are being bias,any way islam is not for all but and if u don't believe does noot mean u pass annoying remarks.

We've been trying to find out the right manner only that most of you are either ignorant or cowards and dont know the significance of the religion you all claim is all about peace!

kewe:

i think people should be allowed to worship God in whatever way, facing wherever.

Infact, you have summarized so neatly for me.

kewe:

what's important is making sure the worship gets to GOD

True talk! Super!

kewe:

@Telly B
i relli envy your knowledge

Well, I'm blushing. If you could say all I had to say in just two lines, I should rather be the one envying you!!

David

when you cry is it juice from ur eyes?

davidylan:

Did you pass Geography in school at all? Does east face the same direction for Libyans, Finnish, Dutch and Ghanains? If east is east wherever you are then what is the purpose of having a compass?

You know what? When I think of people making such wildly frantic statements as "east is east wherever one faces or stands", I recoil and ask myself if these folks have anything to offer. It is even more hilarious that most of their apologists pretend that Islam is "the most scientific" religion! Where did these guys put their brains??

mukina2:

David

when you cry is it juice from your eyes?

my dear, at least unlike qatada's "miraculous" eye, my iris does not run down my cheeks.

Good job tellyB and David,I'm glad to learn from your great wealth of knowledge.
This is not to flatter you guys but it's obvious who the learned ones on these threads are.
You are indeed first and never the last.

@Telly B


It is glaring you and your folks have been crying ever since babs came up with the imcompleteness of the bible.

As for the topic at hand, answers have been supplied but you are the one confusing yourself with your map.

Now to our deluded geographer, where does a muslim in Saudi Arabia faces?

where does a muslim in Nigeria faces?

Where does a muslim in Sudan faces during prayer?


And when you provide answers to the above, you tell me how does a 'qiblah detector' detects where one faces?

Thanks

babs you never cease to amuse us all,patting yourself on the back as you go along.
If anything,you've succeded in making yourself a laughing stock.

Answer your own questions.
When a Nigerian Muslim faces east where is he facing and when an australian Muslim faces east which way is he facing?

The onus is on you to prove your case,whinning like a child will not help you.
_{I'm still waiting for you on the Muhammad gone coo coo thread}

@topic,

I can't make out what I have enjoyed the most on this forum. How do I pick between Babyosisi's rib-cracking comments, Davidylan's succint responses, Telly B's brilliant scholarship or the sheer cluelessness of the adherents of Islam! And the fun is only just beginning.

You know what? When I think of people making such wildly frantic statements as "east is east wherever one faces or stands", I recoil and ask myself if these folks have anything to offer. It is even more hilarious that most of their apologists pretend that Islam is "the most scientific" religion! Where did these guys put their brains??

The statement in bold is the main reason why I hardly engage in debate with the muslims on nairaland anymore. You tend to walk away from the discussion with nothing gained at all.  They have no clue who or what they worship but they tend to make the bigger noise about their faith.

I have been so impressed with the level of scholarship that continually comes from the Christians' camp that reminds me of Paul's statement that "I know whom I have believed".  Same cannot be said of the Muslims and I am left with no option but to commit them into the hands of God.

In any case, keep up the good work guys while endeavoring not to offend anybody. While I may not have contributed, I do follow the discussion.

We muslims hear and obey. Whatever Allah (swt) commands us to do, we do it without hesitation for He is All-Knowing, Most Merciful.
I know little about geography and i will say the direction of the qibla depends on your location on the surface of the earth. While some muslims face East, others don't just like how one side of the Earth sees day light, and the other side sees darkness.

If you take a look at any world map, there is what they call longitude and latitude. Some parts of the world live East of the Greenwich and the other part live West of the Greenwich. Nigeria is situated East of the Greenwich.Likewise Saudi Arabia that's why we face East when we want to pray. Muslims in America don't face East when they want to pray because they live West of the Greenwich. Literally we don't face East, we face North East that is 90degrees East of the Greenwich. I studied map reading very well in secondary school that's how i came about this.

While i was attending the Air Force Military School in Jos, we were taught how to locate a point on any map and find our way through the jungle to our destination. I am sure most of us know about bearing in mathematics. If you do then you will find this easy to understand. We would be taken far into the bush and we will be given a topographical map, compass, binoculars and we will have to find certain things on our way to prove that we are on the right track.

Now back to basis. The Qibla is in Mecca. Nigeria lies about 3-15 degrees North of the Equator. Saudi Arabia lies about 40 degrees North of the Equator this makes the two countries to be in the same hemisphere. Get a map, Find Nigeria and Saudi Arabia and draw the four cardinal points on each country;N,E,W,S. Get a ruler and join these two places with a straight line then you will see that Muslims in Nigeria don't face east per se but North East. Similarly do the same thing for a country like Australia and you will find out that their directions are different. If you have time do the same thing for other countries like America, Finland, Canada, Greece etc.

The bottom line here is that countries that live West of Saudi Arabia face East to pray and countries that live East of Saudi Arabia face Westwards towards the Qibla to pray.
I hope this small piece makes a lot of sense.

This is the only intelligent muslim in the house,all these other noise makers ought to learn from him.
I had said it earlier that if Nigerian Muslims faced east,the prayers are heading towards the Indian Ocean,they ought to face North East.

All the empty barrels talking about east being east and all that crap,are just that,empty barrels.
Muslims in Australia cannot be facing east if they intend on sending their prayers to Mecca,the intelligent ones know they ought to be facing North west.
This is no cause for people to get their undies all up in a bunch!
Anyone questioning this simple geography 101 needs help.

they face east especially the naija ones cuz thats their target, just kiddin'

The original question on the thread is " Why do Muslims face the East when praying".

Its been explained in previous postings that the Muslims do not face east when "praying". Rather Muslims face the Qiblah when observing the "canonical worship" called salat. Salat is compulsory five times in a day for a "typical" Muslim . There other practices that Muslims engage in that are roughly translated to prayer in English. These include supplication(duai), Reflections(Adhkar), etc. Muslims are not enjoined to face the Qiblah during those other acts.

From above, the question can then be rephrased as " Why do Muslims face the Qiblah when performing salat" . The simple answer is that it is a commandment of God and true believers will obey God first of all before looking for comprehensible reasons for the commandment.

Another question will then be " Do the Muslims get the direction of the Qiblah right ". Yes, most Muslims do and even where genuinely, there is an error, God has given so much latitude as to declare that His face is everywhere in every direction. That is one of the things that show that Islam is a practical religion.

Another question is " Do Muslims now have other comprehensible reasons for facing the Qiblah apart from following God's injunction " Yes Muslims do. Facing the Qiblah from all over the world is a big spiritual statement. Think of the Qiblah as multitudes of arrows pointing to the same spot from all around the globe. The spot is the Kaaba which is situated in the Sacred Masjid in Makkah. The Kaaba is just a building of four walls with covered roofs and a black stone at one of the corners. When you are in the Sacred Masjid, you pray facing the Kaaba. Pilgrimage to the Sacred Masjid which entails 'circumbulation' round the Kaaba is enjoined on a "typical" Muslim at least once in his/her lifetime. At least from human reasoning, we know that facing the Qiblah is a constant reminder of universal brotherhood of mankind under one creator, Allah. This is the spiritual statement.

"What informs the location of the Kaaba". Only God and his Messanger can answer that definitely. Its just like asking what determines the location of oil reserves and deposits of diamond, gold etc around the world. There are lots of history surrounding the building of the Kaaba that the Muslims believe in and they are plausible. But a more ordinary look tells you that looking at the map of the world, as it was acclaimed ( still looking for the reference )that probably the continents were joined together before, and given the location of Makkah, you would almost conclude that the Kaaba is at the centre of the surface of the earth.

Now come to think of it, there are two dates and time in a year that sun comes overhead above the Kaaba. Those two dates and times are:

May 28 at 9:18UT
July 16 at 9:27UT



" When you observe the sun at these times (after converting it to your local time), you will be facing the Kaaba giving you Qibla direction, because if there were a very high minaret over Kaaba reaching up to the sky, then you will see it just like you are seeing the sun. "

" Now, let us take a few examples. If you are in Islamabad, Pakistan (+5 hours time difference from Greenwich), the local time to observe the sun would be 2:18pm on May 28, and 2:27pm on July 16. Similarly, if you are in Nova Scotia, Canada (-3 hours time difference from Greenwich), the local time to observe the sun would be 6:18am on May 28, and 6:27am on July 16"

" If you are at a location that you cannot see the sun on the above mentioned two dates, then you can locate Qibla from the sun when it comes overhead at a point diametrically opposite of Makkah on the globe and look for the following two dates and times:

November 28 at 21:09UT
January 16 at 21:29UT

Face toward the shadow from the sun at these times (after converting it to local time) and you will be facing Kaaba. If you can see the sun but cannot see the shadow, put your back towards the sun and your face will be towards Qibla. "

I hope everybody on the thread can check out the above facts that have been proved over the ages. The rising and setting of the sun cannot be manipulated at least for now by humans. It is the work of the Creator of every being.

" Glory be to Him in Whose hand is the dominion of the Heavens and the Earths. May His Peace continue to abide with the Righteous and the Truthful ''