₦airaland Forum

italo:
"COME AND FOLLOW ME", is 'WORK'.

He could have told him 'go your way and believe in me'. That would be mere FAITH, without having to do any WORK.

But to "sell all you have, give the money to the poor, come and follow him", is letting your faith work through love.

And there are still so-called christians who say you need not do anything to be saved. You just have to believe.

I shake my head for una!

When the man came with this simple direct question "good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Y did Jesus not just say: 'believe in me'?

I have been following this thread and shaking my head for you-o

[quote author=OLAADEGBU link=topic=809749.msg9630705#msg9630705 date=1322228964]HOPE You LIKE MATHS? IT'S BEAUTIFUL TO SOLVE AND GET ANSWERS LIKE
THESE,


Make sure you scroll to the bottom and you will be glad you did.


1 x 8 + 1 = 9
12 x 8 + 2 = 98
123 x 8 + 3 = 987
1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876
12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765
123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654
1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543
12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432
123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321

1 x 9 + 2 = 11
12 x 9 + 3 = 111
123 x 9 + 4 = 1111
1234 x 9 + 5 = 11111
12345 x 9 + 6 = 111111
123456 x 9 + 7 = 1111111
1234567 x 9 + 8 = 11111111
12345678 x 9 + 9 = 111111111
123456789 x 9 +10= 1111111111

9 x 9 + 7 = 88
98 x 9 + 6 = 888
987 x 9 + 5 = 8888
9876 x 9 + 4 = 88888
98765 x 9 + 3 = 888888
987654 x 9 + 2 = 8888888
9876543 x 9 + 1 = 88888888
98765432 x 9 + 0 = 888888888

Brilliant , isn't it?

And look at this symmetry:

1 x 1 = 1
11 x 11 = 121
111 x 111 = 12321
1111 x 1111 = 1234321
11111 x 11111 = 123454321
111111 x 111111 = 12345654321
1111111 x 1111111 = 1234567654321
11111111 x 11111111 = 123456787654321
111111111 x 111111111=123456789 87654321

[/Quote]

This is so awesome.

OLAADEGBU:
Public School Education.

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/ltbt/public-ed.jpg[/img]

How sad, I am close to crying.

I saw this truth demonstrated in, ''The Big Lie'' above. (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp).

It sure takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in creation.

gotizsata:
https://i.imgur.com/jRSi4.jpg

Please take a minute to consider that your belief is of no effect, if it is wrong.

[quote author=i.chuka link=topic=809982.msg9617860#msg9617860 date=1322069406]@OLAADEGBU'
may God continue to bless you.may His Grace and Mercy never depart from you all the days of your life,in Jesus name.Amen, you just dont have gift.you(yourself) are a gift to the body of Christ.[/quote]

plappville:
The bold are said also because of the same gift of the body of Christ.

John 16:13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

@OLAADEGBU' u are blessed, more of this will be very much appreciated.

Amen! Amen!! Amen!!!
Thanks for posting it as a thread here, as I said in the other thread, only eternity can reveal the impacts of these cartoons. Remain blessed.

Pastor AIO:
Please Which Doctrine is more repugnant?

Salvation by paying Tithes?

or,

Salvation by Faith without Without Works.

The answer to this question would depend on the person giving the answer-whether they are regenerated or unregenerated. Salvation by Faith without works and it's cousin- predestination-are  the most repugnant doctrines ever, to the unregenerated man !

OLAADEGBU:
The Awful Truth!

[flash=500,400]http://media.chick.com/preview.swf[/flash]

Very insightful, only got to loading and reading it today. It will be great as a thread.

Keep up the good work. Don't listen to negative comments about the cartoons, only eternity can reveal their imparts.

Singing:

[Quote]

Alas! and did my Saviour bleed, and did my Sovereign die?
Would He devote that sacred head for such a worm as I?

Was it for crimes that I had done He groaned upon the tree?
Amazing pity! grace unknown! and love beyond degree!

Well might the sun in darkness hide, and shut His glories in,
When Christ, the Mighty maker, died for man, the creature's sins.


But drops of grief can ne'er repay the debt of love I owe;
Here, Lord, I give myself away- tis all that I can do.[/quote]

Eben 2:
My good friend Ogwumgbe,

As much as i dont want to argue with you; i feel a need to explain one or two things to you one more time peharps the Holy Spirit will give you more insight into the word of God.

Now, concerning the 10 virgins; ask yourself: who are they? Are they born-again christians or not? The ten virgins our Lord was talking about is actually the church. Those that have been saved and washed in the blood of the lamb. That was why they were called virgins and they were all going to meet the bridegroom. Now, the five of these ten virgins were foolish - careless; they were not well prepared for the coming of their Lord. They were supposed to work out their salvation (they were already saved) with fear and trembling but they did not. "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; let us WATCH and be SOBER." 1Thess 5: 6.

Here lays the Word of God. You are saved by grace (unmerited favour) “not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). As a sinner, i was bankrupt with nothing to offer God for the salvation of my soul. It was  not until i realised this that Christ saved my soul. Remember the prodigal son; as long as he believed he had enough to save himself, he was out of the Father's protection but once he realised how poor, filthy and unworthy he was; he was accepted back as a son.

A saved christian has an obligation to watch and pray without ceasing (i.e. work hard) because someone is out there seeking to take away his freedom. "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" 1 Pet 5:8. Conversely, an unsaved soul has a need to look unto God for pardon and regeneration with nothing to offer. Christ paid it all!

Shalom!

How I love and cherish the bolded! .

ogwumgbe:
Eben,
You are truly among the false teachers of the end time mentioned by the same
St Paul to timothy that will deceive people with false teachings whose heart have been seared with hot iron (1timothy 4;1) Continue deceiving yourself. There's nothing like salvation by faith alone. Read your Bible very well, and stop believing your fabricated false teachings. Letters to the seven Churches in the book of revelation will open your eyes to the truth and deliver you from your illusions. Also Galatia 5; 19 -21 written by the same St Paul whose teaching you are so confused is another eye opener. I regret to say that your teaching is not from the Holy Spirit but descended from demons.Stop inducing the elect into committing spiritual fornication please. Repent and go back to the true gospel of our lord Jesus Christ; Salvation by faith and works please. If what you are professing is true, then there will be no five foolish virgins.

Please read through the whole thread again (not just Eben's posts) and reconsider your comments.

Eben 2:
On a memorable afternoon in Palestine, four thousand years ago, two travelers might have been seen, slowly tailing up the side of Mount Moriah father and son, Abraham and Isaac.

“Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? Inquires the son.

“My son,” answers the Spirit-inspired father, “God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering.”

And now the altar has been erected and Isaac is laid upon it. Abraham grasps the knife and with arm uplifted, prepares to plunge it into the heart of his son, when, suddenly, a voice from above cries out:

“Abraham, Abraham… lay not thine hand upon the lad… And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.”

“In the stead of his son.” And hundreds of years after, God Himself provided a lamb, His own well-beloved Son, to die “in the stead of” sinful, guilty man. But when He hung on the cross, there was no voice from Heaven, for there was no other who could take His place. And so he died. Jesus Christ, a substitute for you and for me.

This, then, is the ground of Salvation. Christ’s work is the only true foundation, and every other is sinking sand. Hence, salvation is “not of works”. Christ did the work on Calvary’s cross nineteen hundred years ago.

If Calvary teaches anything at all, it teaches substitution. Such is the plain and unmistakable interpretation of Abraham’s sacrifice of ram, which, we are told, he offered up “in stead of” Isaac his son. God took your sin and mine and laid it on His Son, Jesus Christ, who bore it, and died in our stead. “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” John 1:29

In the awful hour when darkness covered Golgotha, and at the moment when the Lord Jesus Christ sent out that piercing, never-to-be-forgotten cry; “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me!” then it was that the foul thing called sin, yours and mine, was laid upon Him. So terrible was the experience that even God Himself had to turn away His face – Jesus was compelled to bear it all alone.

He has paid for your sins; you don’t have to pay for it anymore. He’s knocking at the door of your heart; won’t you open to Him today and let Him come in? The work of your salvation has been finished on Calvary; you don’t have to be a slave to sin and devil anymore. Surrender to Him and trust Him. Do it and do it NOW!

Great post. ''for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin ; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him''--2nd Cor. 5:21

Eben 2:
Now, salvation by faith! hmn… let me start by giving you the testimony of how I got saved.

On that wonderful and unforgettable day – December 5 of a certain year, the Lord met and saved my condemned soul! Before that day, I was a terrible sinner though I was born and breed up in a Christian family, go to church regularly, pay my offering and sometimes my tithes. I have a very beautiful wife at home but I had chains of girlfriend all around, a terrible liar; I was filthy in every sense of it! Most times when we closed from church service on Sunday, I dropped off my family at home and went out fornicating. I was going about with loads of sin and guilt and had no one to help me. I was constantly hearing the word of God but it did not mix with faith in my heart.

A day before this wondrous day, December 5, I had just met two new girls and I made arrangement with each of them against the next day. So, there was I on the pew waiting for the pastor to finish whatever he had to say so I could have my way with my new catches. Suddenly (I don’t know how) through the middle of the message, the word crept into my heart and I saw how filthy and helpless I was; my heart of stone was made soft and I cried for mercy. I went on my knees there and then earnestly asked for forgiveness and I was saved! By the time I stood up from my knees, my heart was full of Joy, I felt light! The load of sin and guilt was lifted off my neck and I was set free! And what work did I do? Nothing! I heard the word and I trusted (believe/have faith) in the word and I was saved!
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works. Lest any man should boast” (Eph 2: 8 – 9) Do you pay for gifts? No! for if you pay for a gift; it is no longer a gift. If our work can save us then the sacrifice of Christ on the cross will not be necessary. “… and without shedding of blood is no remission” Heb 9:22.

Reading your post, I cannot help but sing:

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.


T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.


Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.


The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.


Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

Eben 2:
@ poster,
{1:18} For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. {1:19} For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. {1:20} Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? {1:21} For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. {1:22} For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: {1:23} But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1 Cor 1:18 – 23
Anyone who tries to explain the word of the Kingdom with the wisdom and knowledge of the world will always see it as foolish and unreasonable. Please come with me with an open mind and let me explain the mystery of salvation by faith to you.
First, let me explain your quotation: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Mt 7:21)
The writer of this article would have understood what our Lord was saying if he/she had asked a simple question: what is the will of His father? The will of our Father which is in heaven is for us to trust the redemptive work of His Son on Calvary Mat 17:5“While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” Jesus was saying, I did not come to create a religion, hence, you might be a pastor, a church worker, a morally sound person, a faithful tithe payer, one that calls him Lord, Lord yet you’ll still miss heaven. The only thing that can save is for you to trust (have faith) in my death and blood; for I’ve been offered up as sacrifice in your place. “except” He says “a man be born-again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

Very brilliant post.

booqee:
Do u know it is not a sin for a woman to go to church without covering her hair?
You don't necessarily have to cover your hair with scarf, cap, or anything. Why? Because d hair on our head is the covering for our head. It may now become a sin if then u come with a shaved hair to d presence of God. Our hair has been given to us by God as our covering. It is also a glory from God to us. So why need to cover God's glory on us? (Though its no sin to cover it with scarf, its just not necessary or compulsory)
Now check it out.
Open your bible and read 1st corinthians 11 vs 3-16. Go back and read vs 14 and 15 again, especially vs15.

Vs 15 says "but if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given her for a covering" (KJV)

Lol. I don't think you understood the passage. Please go through it again , and don't be too quick to jump to conclusions .

Pastor AIO:
1.Clowning!! These are your words not mine. So you now recognise yourself to be a clown.

2.There is nothing in Romans 9: 30 -33 that says that there are 2 types of Righteousness. He talks about Gentliles attaining Righteousness by Faith and he says that Israel was unable to attain the VERY SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS by following the law.

3.It is obvious that he is talking about one and the same thing and not two different things. Read verse 32 again. He says they sought 'it', not they sought 'them'. It is singular meaning that he is talking about one thing.
4.To be quite frank with you I am in no mood to be giving people English Comprehension lessons on Nairaland. I hoped to leave your last posts in all their glorious inanity as the end of the thread because I felt it exposed the rubbishness of your position better than anything I could have written. However you thought it wise to goad me with this subsequent post:
5.If Paul was talking about two kinds of Righteousness he would have said "Because they sought THEM not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law." As it stands he said they sought it.

6.The difference is the method via which they sought to attain to that single Righteousness. By Faith or By Law.

7.There is only one Sun. In the Tropics it is Hot In the Arctic it is not hot.

8.There is only one Righteousness. By Faith it is attainable, by Law it is not.

9.Please read your 'other passages to support your assertion of two forms of righteousness' well well before you post it up. Make sure you actually understand what you're reading, because I can bet you my bottom dollar that you will not find 2 types of Righteousness anywhere in the Bible. Good Luck!!

Your response was swift, just like the you I know, thank you.
1. Very sorry, I thought you were clowning; I don't think so now.
2: You got this very wrong. He started by saying, '' the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith''. The EVEN in the sentence is very significant. It can be understood in two senses-1.he is being specific on the righteousness the Gentiles attained to or/and 2. It is no mere righteousness they attained to, it is the one that AVAILS before God, it is the one that saves, it is the one that is the fount of every blessing we get from God. And the point he is driving home is that they got this righteousness by grace, not of their deserving, not of merit, because God CHOSE to give it to them.He goes on to show that salvation (for this is what we need righteousness for) was by grace, by saying that the jews who sought after the ''law of righteousness'' (righteousness by keeping the law) had not attained this righteousness (the law of righteousness). Compare verse 30 and 31, the first righteousness in verse 30 is not distinguished, the Gentiles sought NO righteousness. The second is qualified and expressed as the third, THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH. IN 31, Israel, which followed some form of righteousness (the law of righteousness), trying to be righteous by keeping the law, could not attain even '' the law of righteousness''. To sum up, it is like the Gentiles not looking for money at all and finding billions of dollars; and Israel looking for a million naira and not being able to find twenty kobo.
3: Not the VERY SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS, do not err my beloved brother; '' the righteousness of faith'' and ''the law of righteousness'' are not the same. If you have to put a mathematical sign between these phrases, it will be the sign of inequality.
The Gentiles did not strive after ANY righteousness. Israel strove after ''the law of righteousness'' (righteousness from works, keeping of the laws (commandments) and were going to hell in droves, that is why Paul was crying in chapter 9 verse 2 and in chapter 10:2,3; the tears started flowing freely again.
4. To be quite frank with you, I feel the truth of the saying, '' because the owner of the goods is slow to call the thief a thief, the theif calls the owner a thief. However, I do not believe you need English lessons, just that you need to get rid of your Pelagian goggles.
5. Why would he say , '' because they sought them''? He is referring to the righteousness they sought. The Gentiles attained the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH they DIDN'T seek. Israel did not obtain the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW they sought; you still don't get it?
6. Are you kidding? The Gentiles did not seek ANY righteousness, the righteousness Israel sought was unattainable. Do you see how grace is the overiding factor in the attainment of the righteousness that matters?
7.I like this similitude, save it for a rainy day.
8. There is only one righteousness that AVAILS before God. By faith it is attainable, by law, it is not.
9. The next passage is the whole of chapter 10 of the same book, please read it up; Paul is not yet done with you; it is with him you have been disputing !

Haba PastorAIO, this is not fair-o! Is the question this difficult? Don't reduce my momentum-o! I have other passages to support my assertion of the two forms of righteousness. Please pick the correct answer and let's look at the implications.

@PastorAIO
I will lay down the concept of the righteousness by faith and the righteousness of the law once again (with another passage!)
Romans 9 : 30 - 33.
[Quote]
30.What shall we say then? That the gentiles, which followed not after RIGHTEOUSNESS, have attained to RIGHTEOUSNESS, even the RIGHTEOUSNESS which is of faith.
31. But Israel, which followed after the law of RIGHTEOUSNESS, hath not attained to the law of RIGHTEOUSNESS.
32. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33.As it is written, Behold , I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be offended.''--- KJV
3O.Well then, what shall we say about these things? Just this, that God has given the Gentiiles the opportunity to be acquitted by faith, even though they had not been really seeking God.
31. But the Jews, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping his laws, never succeeded.
32. Why not? Because they were trying to be saved by keeping the law and being good instead of by depending on faith. They have stumbled over the great stumbling stone.
33. God warned them of this in the scripture when he said, '' I have put a Rock in the path of the Jews, and many will stumble over him (Jesus). Those who believe in him will never be disappointed.'' ---TLB
[/Quote]
You may go ahead now and tell us, if you believe this passage is talking of one form of righteousness or two.

Pastor AIO:
Why would anyone try to distinguish the Tropical Sun from the Arctic sun if they are one and the same?

Can you still not see the parallels?

Of course, it would distress and grieve true believers that you choose to play the clown with this serious issue.

ogwumgbe:
Paul's assertion of the righteousness of faith is to the Jews who think that they can be accepted without Christ. To the Jews, righteousness without Christ means no acceptance by God. To professing Christians, Accepting Christ without obeying His commands means rejection by the Father period.

Utter rubbish.

Pastor AIO:
1.I believe that I addressed your spurious claim that there are two types of righteousness quite elegantly above. How many suns are there?

2.and as for me 'chasing everything but the real point that we are disputing', I need you to give me an example of where and how I've avoided any 'real points'.

2. Please refer to my post , #31. Please explain why Paul is trying to distinguish the righteousness of faith from that of the law (works), if they are one and the same.

@Ugwumgbe
I am so delighted you did not attempt to dispute my submission on how Arminianism came about.

@Unphilaz
[Quote] Thanks 5solas for the further discuss [/Quote] Thanks and for yours too. More later, please.

@PastorAIO
Note that rather than confirm or refute my post #31 on the fact that they are two types of righteousness, you have been chasing everything but the real point we are disputting. You have left two many of my questions unanswered.

Pastor AIO:
Okay, let us draw a distinction between Nature and Contrivance. If it is not in someone's nature to sin but he sins then that means that he has someone contrived against his nature to sin.

It is not in my nature to bark like a dog but if I do bark then I've obviously made the conscious decision to do something that I wouldn't naturally do.

1.Are you therefore telling me that there is a different psychological process in the sins of a believer from the sins of an unbeliever? So where the unbeliever would just naturally sin without thinking about it, the believer would say to himself, "I feel no inclination to sin, however just out of sheer perversity I'm going to go out there and commit one grievious sin, hahahahahahaha, why not?"

I see what you are saying now. However my point was not that the consequences of what you say is that the believer should live a sinful life. My point is that believers DO live sinful lives. And salvation entails repenting from these sinful actions. A consequence of what you say is that 'christians' feel that discipleship does not entail repentance from sin, and in fact it is okay to continue sinning.

1. I am sure professing christians will agree the believers (regenerates) are enabled to keep the commandments in a way the unbelievers (unregenerates) are not.
2. When we say salvation is by grace WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW, we are simply asserting what The BIble says. Blackmail that, ''it will cause people to sin'' does not deter us.

nlMediator:
The proof is simple common sense that God gave to all of us. If you choose to believe that the Roman soldiers, after breaking the legs of the thieves, took them down before death and went looking for panic-stricken Christians who went into hiding to come and baptize the 'good thief' before death, that’s your call. I do not. More important, Jesus could have said: “You’ll be with me in paradise provided you get baptized.” He did not. Since the thief probably was not there in John 3 when Jesus mentioned the necessity of water for salvation, wouldn’t it have been better for Jesus to inform him of baptism, with a note that without it, there is no paradise?

Very sound post.

Great post!

I hope Italo is reading .

So what is your point?

Pastor AIO:
You're changing the subject. I asked you if sin still had dominion over you. Do you still sin? If you do then how does that tally with Paul's position that 'under grace sin has no dominion over you.'

I never said that 'there is no other use of good works than to "make heaven"'. Don't put words in my mouth. Throughout this thread I have asserted that there is an effort towards righteousness that the disciple must make. You said it was automatic and that even if you are still sinning you are righteous due to some wuru wuru formula of wearing Christ's righteousness like the white wash on a white washed sepulchre covering the stinkingest cesspit of dead body perdition. Abi no be so?

5solas:
Now the bolded is a logical fallacy (someone please supply the name !).
Did Paul say those ‘’under grace’’ NEVER sin?
Does ,’’sin shall not have dominion over  you’’ equal, ‘’you will never sin again?’’
Do you NEVER sin?
Please enlighten  us.

This is about the soundest sentence you have posted in this thread.
If you agree that  the purpose of good works are not for salvation only, why do you infer that the consequence of my saying good works are not for salvation AT ALL is that the believer should live a sinful life?
What are the other purposes of good works, and why does it not cross your mind that we advocate good works for these purposes and deservedly call them ‘’filthy rags’’ when they are advanced as conditions for salvation?

Pastor AIO:
1.Please what do you understand by the statement that 'Sin will have no dominion over you'. I understand it mean that you are free from all compulsion to sin hence you don't sin. Please if you have a different understanding of that statement then let us know it.

2.My asking you not to put words in my word is the 'soundest sentence' I have posted? How is that so? It was simply a request. I didn't make any statement. You put words in my mouth hoping to have a straw man to argue with. I asked you not to. finito.

3.Furthermore I don't get how you jump from saying 'they are not for salvation only' to saying therefore 'they are not for salvation AT ALL'. please explanation me.
4.I don't know what your point is in asking me 'what are the other purposes of good works', or how pertinent it is to this thread? However I can think of one very good purpose of Good works. It alleviates the suffering of others. Feeding the poor alleviates their hunger. Now I would say that that is a worthwhile purpose. And the poor child whose needs are been met will certainly never call such work 'filthy rags'.

1.I understand it to mean that sinning will not come naturally to the believer, because he has a new nature, having been born again. Definitely it does not mean that he CANNOT sin as you imply or seem to imply.
2.Please read my post again. Your statement, ‘’I never said that 'there is no other use of good works than to "make heaven" is what I was referring to. How you jumped it , even though I bolded it and it was the first sentence ,is beyond me.
3.You are the one saying good works have a role to play in salvation and you also say as you have just repeated, that they are other uses of good works .So you should understand I was expressing your sentiment. That is why  I asked,
’’ If you agree that  the purpose of good works are not for salvation only, why do you infer that the consequence of my saying good works are not for salvation AT ALL is that the believer should live a sinful life?’’
I have said all along that works play no  part. And I stressed my stand by reaffirming it, seems though that, rather than answer my question, the red herring was too much of a temptation for you.
Please don’t ignore context, ‘‘it is king’’ said a wise nairander.
4.Of course the poor child won’t call it ‘’filthy rags’’, nor would I, from this argument then, does it translate to the fact that neither would God?
5. Do you then draw a distinction (in your view)  between the works that saves and that by which we help our neighbours.
Don’t ask me if I believe some good works save, in your next post,  I will be so disappointed  .

Pastor AIO:
You're changing the subject. I asked you if sin still had dominion over you. Do you still sin? If you do then how does that tally with Paul's position that 'under grace sin has no dominion over you.'

Now the bolded is a logical fallacy (someone please supply the name !).
Did Paul say those ‘’under grace’’ NEVER sin?
Does ,’’sin shall not have dominion over  you’’ equal, ‘’you will never sin again?’’
Do you NEVER sin?
Please enlighten  us.

Pastor AIO:
I never said that 'there is no other use of good works than to "make heaven"'. Don't put words in my mouth. Throughout this thread I have asserted that there is an effort towards righteousness that the disciple must make. You said it was automatic and that even if you are still sinning you are righteous due to some wuru wuru formula of wearing Christ's righteousness like the white wash on a white washed sepulchre covering the stinkingest cesspit of dead body perdition. Abi no be so?

This is about the soundest sentence you have posted in this thread.
If you agree that  the purpose of good works are not for salvation only, why do you infer that the consequence of my saying good works are not for salvation AT ALL is that the believer should live a sinful life?
What are the other purposes of good works, and why does it not cross your mind that we advocate good works for these purposes and deservedly call them ‘’filthy rags’’ when they are advanced as conditions for salvation?

Pastor AIO:
Since it seems that most of your theology comes from a reading of Paul let us read Paul.
Romans 6.

Why does he say that Sin shall not have dominion over you? Ans: Because you are not under the law but under Grace.

Can I therefore say that if Sin continues to have dominion over you then you are not under Grace, or the Grace has had no effect on you?

22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

So now that, as Paul said, you've been made free from sin, are not your fruits those of holiness? You tell me. Are your fruits unto holiness? And if not why not?
Or perhaps you simply are not to be counted amongst the elect?

Now you are making me chuckle. You seem to continually forget that when we say that salvation is by grace alone, we do not teach nor imply that there is to be no good work in the life of the saved.And you go about as if there is no other use of good works than to ''make heaven''. My fruits are unto holiness, I do good works as I am enabled, but not to be saved thereby.
Of course, I am one of His elects because I have believed in Christ. I am KNOWN of God. I didn't choose Him, He chose me.

unphilaz:
thanks solas i am enjoying it. i hope to comment but on the phone am restricted. thanks all 4 sharin

Thanks, I will share some more later, please.

Pastor AIO:
How can someone still be a sinner if they have complete salvation? What have you been saved from if you are still sinning?

Is salvation not a process? Or is it a once and that's it event?

I think that this is the crux of the matter. Do you see it as a process or do you see it as a instant event?

It is instantaneous, a once and for all experience.
At what point do you reckon a person to be saved?