₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
No problem.

malvisguy212:
The scripture teaches predestination, but not Calvinistic Predestination.

vooks:
Some amateur theoreticians need to brush up their understanding of ELECTION and PREDESTINATION. By God's grace I will share on these two later in the day

vooks:
If God freely offers a gift (salvation) to ALL men but denies most the ability (faith) to receive this gift, the offer is not genuine, and it was never available for all.

The doctrine of perseverance which is derived from the idea of individual election, is incompatible with a belief in availability of salvation for ALL

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

An2elect2:
Its been long. Looking forward to them.

You made my day. Good night Sir.

vooks:
What is the fate of the many who never heard of Sinai nor Calvary like your great great great grandfather?

vooks:
ABDULADINO,5solas
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

An2elect2:
Thank you!!!

vooks:
.

Scholar8200:
Thank God for the Reformers and their selfless effort to preserve the Truth but we must note the following:

1. Their efforts was to reform not the faith of Christ, but the Roman catholic church;

2. While they were instrumental in making public that which the RCC kept private, they did not author any book of the Bible;

3. It will be wrong to assume that their writings rank with All Scripture: Inspired by God!

4. Just like the christian literatures we have today, their writings indeed contain portions of truth from the Word and commentaries that was skewed in the direction of their personal convictions

5. As a result we can only hold to all that the Bible says and the interpretation thereof as the Spirit reveals and weigh same on the balance that it does not contradict any other passage, God's promises, power, pattern of dealing with men, and purpose.

6. For example, Luther was instrumental to the recovery of the Truth: Justification by faith; however, we will go into error if we follow this mistake he wrote:

[b]Luther now proposed seven measures of “sharp mercy” that German princes could take against Jews: (1) burn their schools and synagogues; (2) transfer Jews to community settlements; (3) confiscate all Jewish literature, which was blasphemous; (4) prohibit rabbis to teach, on pain of death; (5) deny Jews safe-conduct, so as to prevent the spread of Judaism; (6) appropriate their wealth and use it to support converts and to prevent the lewd practice of usury; (7) assign Jews to manual labor as a form of penance...Luther now thought what he had accused Catholics of thinking in 1523: Jews were dogs. “We are at fault for not slaying them,” he fumed shortly before his death.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1993/issue39/3938.html?start=2

Was Luther saying this out of hatred? NO. Rather it was due to faulty understanding:

Yet rabbinic teaching was madness and blindness that blasphemed Christ, Mary, and the Holy Trinity. Luther could not “have any fellowship or patience with obstinate [Jewish] blasphemers and those who defame this dear Savior.” Blasphemy was a civil crime. To allow it to continue, Luther feared, meant Christians would share in the guilt for it.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1993/issue39/3938.html?start=1


Any christian knows this is wrong. Even Paul who was stoned etc by these same Jews was passionate about their salvation to the point of wishing himself accursed for their sakes! Any believer who follows this teaching today and does not retrace his steps will die and go to hell as a criminal!

Conclusion? Let's weigh the contents of both schools of thought from a scriptural perspective!

[/b]

An2elect2:
Please you can read the abridged version here http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm . It will inspire your reading of the whole.
The whole here:
http://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html or https://www.lutheransonline.com/lo/671/FSLO-1344356671-111671.pdf

An2elect2:
Thank you dear but this link is taking me to a blank page, jzzzz. Can't see anything...

ABDULADINO:
The skeptic doesn't get it.. The Romans 2:12 he quoted shows the phrase "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law" referring to anybody who has ever sinned at any time...and those WHO SIN without the law will perish...it never said they are saved...One wonders where he got the concept of salvation from that passage...since Paul had made it clear ALL HAVE SINNED..In other words, if you choose to live under the law you will be condemned by it! Personally i prefer living under the grace of God given through faith in Jesus Christ.

The eternal security skeptics are welcome to live under the law if they want.

An2elect2:
Wow, heard of that book but not read yet. All the Christian bookshops I've been to lack reformed materials/books that i have almost given up visiting any of them again. #sadface#

Can i access this book online? any site at all?

An2elect2:
True. I will always be on the side of Calvinism as long as the arminian vs calvinism debate persists, but at the end of the day i will always want to be identified as nothing else but a Christian. After all, those points are not Calvin's but Christ's!

Albeit some of us choose to identify with some sects, it doesn't really matter as long as we are on the side of truth and the Lord is glorified!

ABDULADINO:
True..Let God's word be true and every man's be false.

An2elect2:
Ok dear.

Though I am not a Calvinist myself, i found most of its points are consistent with the scripture. However, will defend my faith in the name of Christ rather than Calvin/calvinism, because i was taught by Christ Himself.

ABDULADINO:
My dear neither is. Since we deny freewill and teach God is sovereign in salvation by election and predestination, we are often accused of being calvinists.

vooks:
[b]John 5:25 (KJV)

The point is deadness does not prevent them from hearing God. God does not make you alive FIRST and then present his voice; He speaks to you while dead, and upon hearing you live. So man in his depravity is not immune to the voice.

vooks:
John 5:25 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
Jesus makes it clear it is THE DEAD who hear.
Think through that. Dead in their trespasses hear God. Upon hearing, they LIVE.

The point is deadness does not prevent them from hearing God. God does not make you alive FIRST and then present his voice; He speaks to you while dead, and upon hearing you live. So man in his depravity is not immune to the voice.

vooks:
The dead in their trespasses can still sin, and they can hear Jesus voice.

John 5:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

starlingslimnet:
Define both.

ABDULADINO:
Lol@ all these irrelevant long epistles. Who saves from SIN? Man or God? There is no middle ground here.

ABDULADINO:
Lol in other words Man saves himself from sin. Ok o.

sportsmaster:
who is still arguing again on this thread,I thought i cleared the arguements

vooks:
BELIEVES is active continuous tense.


Nothing can pluck you from Jesus/Father's hand. But you are not held there against your will. You can walk away.

Think Adam in Eden. NOTHING could pluck him from Eden. Not even Satan. But the devil provoked him to rebel and walk away from all that

vooks:
God does not believe for you, He makes your belief effectual, He responds to it by granting you life eternal.

If belief is 'given', then unbelief essentially is God DENYING men salvation. Because had he 'given' them belief, they would not have perished.

God gives opportunity to all mankind to be saved, the few/many that believe/respond are saved. The rest perish for rejecting His salvation. This is the essence of John 3:16
1. God loved the world
2. He gave His son
3. WHOSOEVER believes

WHOSOEVER is not a few lucky fellas who were 'given'; God 'gave' ALL the opportunity

John 3:16-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him.

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

vooks:
God does not believe for you, He makes your belief effectual, He responds to it by granting you life eternal.

If belief is 'given', then unbelief essentially is God DENYING men salvation. Because had he 'given' them belief, they would not have perished.

God gives opportunity to all mankind to be saved, the few/many that believe/respond are saved. The rest perish for rejecting His salvation. This is the essence of John 3:16
1. God loved the world
2. He gave His son
3. WHOSOEVER believes

WHOSOEVER is not a few lucky fellas who were 'given'; God 'gave' ALL the opportunity

John 3:16-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world. He did not send him to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him.

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

sportsmaster:
know that salvation is a promise.
To receive a promise,you must believe it.

An2elect2:
They cant see the contradictions in what they profess. Nothing can pluck him from God's hand but but but his choice/will Then there is something than can pluck him out

vooks:
BELIEVES is active continuous tense.


Nothing can pluck you from Jesus/Father's hand. But you are not held there against your will. You can walk away.

Think Adam in Eden. NOTHING could pluck him from Eden. Not even Satan. But the devil provoked him to rebel and walk away from all that