₦airaland Forum

bigd4050: Frosbel, your attacking quite hard on this. Have I debated you before or why so abrasive?

I agree with your first point. If Paul lives a life of sin, he will become a castaway. However, if he does, he would have never been saved in the first place. Those who have tasted the sweetness of God's grace cannot go back to a life of sin, or they were never truly thankful for God's gift in the first place. That is what I am arguing. If someone falls away from the faith, then they never had faith to begin with.

[b]Second, man does not have a choice. God changes mans heart, not man. Man can make choice, but not when it comes to having faith. The Bible clearly states that we were deaf, blind, and dumb to God and his truth. Do we suddenly make ourselves see then? No, we don't. God changes our hearts, our minds, helps us to see and understand. That is why if God wants you saved, you are saved. You may sin occasionally after that, but its never a practice. That is why when you see people fall away from the faith, its because they never had true faith to begin with. They might serve God for a time, but their true fruit always shows. That is why endurance is such an important factor.

So now that its established that God is the one who opens people's eyes and saves them, why doesn't he do that for everyone? Because God has CHOSEN people. He always has. God never changes, right? So if he wanted EVERYONE saved, why didn't he offer up salvation or knowledge for the other nations around Israel? Because he doesn't want all people saved. He wanted all his CHOSEN people saved. That is why God just ordered Israel to destroy the other nations. This is difficult to understand. I expect a lot of fight back on this. But it all makes sense when you see my paragraph above, which cannot be denied. When God wants someone saved, he changes their heart. When God changes someone's heart, does he do it to no effect? No, that person is saved. The one who says God has changed their heart and falls away a year later is the one who is not saved, nor ever was[/b].

A very sound post.

Since those who believe are called and chosen and you cannot be saved if you are not called and chosen, it is clear anyone so chosen will NEVER come to condemnation.

Enigma: When {boxer X} hits you, you stay hit.

When God saves you, you stay saved.

Great post.

ijawkid: @ola....
Can't watch d video....on my mobile with slow mtn netwrk...
Please what n what was said about her??
Definitly no human except Jesus who never had some flaws...but I dnt tink that should taint her name..
Just give me a summary of d video...

If I understood it well, to sum up , the homes she ran were so poor, compared with the monies she received to run them.

Shocking.So what did she use the monies for? Probably remitted them to her cult.


It won't surprise us though , if Pope and Hindu Priest end up in the same place.

[quote author=i.chuka]The "Gift" is inexhaustible.(you dont lose enternal life once you have it,because its Enternal).[/quote]Thanks , you are right , the fact it is eternal, is itself proof, it cannot be lost. It amounts to mere cavillation to teach otherwise.

rastamouse: As much as Christians earn salvation (its a gift), we also have a responsibility to live right. Unless one is holy, there is no way that person can see GOD and GOD of course is in HEAVEN

I am sure you meant to add, ''don't'' before ''earn''. If so, it is a very great post.

Of course, we should live right. What should drive us so to do? Fear of hell?

Image123: ^i added life(physical life), sanity, and yourself. These were not worked for. You didn't really miss that, did you?

It is there in my quotation of you . Salvation is given to the ungodly and undeserving being ungodly and undeserving: from this premise it is clear it cannot be lost.

If it were given to the righteous because of their righteousness, then it could be lost; but it is not so given.

Image123: Of course, anything can be lost if one is careless. You can lose weight, money, life, sanity, yourself, salvation, anything.

This question reminds me of that below and the answers given by Viaro and myself. They are still relevant.

Image123:

If you can lose your life savings, then you can lose your salvation. It's that simple.

Viaro:

No, it's not that simple - the analogy does not fit. One's 'life savings' pertains to what they worked for; but salvation is a gift by grace and it's free. We already know that we cannot confuse work for grace (Romans 11:6 - 'And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work'); and thus we cannot destine them to be on the same pedestal.

Indeed, there are warnings to believers in Scripture (both OT and NT): but what is the nature of such warnings to us? Are they warning us about losing salvation or about losing rewards?

Rewards pertain to our works that follow salvation - and there is more than enough to show that we can lose our reward(s) [2 John 1:8 for example].

Salvation pertains to God's work in us following our genuine repentance - I don't know if the Bible warns us of the possibility of becoming 'unsaved' after having been 'saved'. And this is where it all gets knotty for many of us who are grappling with a clear understanding of the 'salvation' of which we speak.

https://www.nairaland.com/428061/can-believer-lose-salvation/2

5solas:

Please let's have your scriptural basis. It's not that simple, because life savings and eternal life are not comparable. The very fact that salvation is by grace overthrows all arguments that salvation can be lost.Salvation does not go to the fittest .''So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy'' (Rom.9:16 ). God is the Author and Finisher of the faith of those that are called.(Heb.12:2,1 Cor.1:30).God and God alone saves man (monergism) not God and man working together (synergism)

.https://www.nairaland.com/428061/can-believer-lose-salvation

italo: @ Frosbel,

There's only one truth, one doctrine, one body.

How much longer will you resist?

Lol.

@Frosbel

I will not be surprised if you end up in Rome.

italo: See jamb question! Ok, eternal life means life eternal.

John 3:16 doesn't say that one cannot lose eternal life. Give us another verse!

Wonders shall never end.

[quote author=i.chuka]Can a "Gift" be retrived after it has been given?[/quote]This gift of salvation, because it is giving in love, to the undeserving, cannot would not, be withdrawn.

OLAADEGBU: Benny Hinn preaches it again here, that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE4NAapR8zg

It is so refreshing to hear it from a high profile preacher , after that high profile denial.

OLAADEGBU: Who is Benny Hinn speaking about here?


I may not agree with all of his teachings but I applaud him for standing up for Jesus when others would rather be seeker friendly.

Thumbs up for Benny. Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. Great post.

Image123: The thing tire me o, my brother. It's simple na, except for people who know book too much. That's the difference between simple arithmetics and further mathematics. [b]Died on friday. Friday is 1ST DAY, Saturday is 2ND DAY, Sunday is 3RD DAY. Jesus rose on the third day.
"And they shall kill him, and THE THIRD DAY he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry."[b] (Matthew 17:23).

Image, try to get the point of the OP.

Take any time on friday to be the time of death, say 8.00am ; saturday by 8.00am is the end of the first day; sunday by 8.00am is second day ; this leaves monday by 8.00am to be the third day.

oloriooko: If Jesus actually died on a Friday as believed by many people then He couldn't have risen on Sunday morning if He did spend three days in the grave!!!

Did Jesus actually die on a Friday or the day imposed on believers?

I think Jesus died on a Wednesday then it should be called a good Wednesday

I get your point . In the light of my post above, try good thursday! . I also need to understand this point.
It doesn't bother me though.

goshen360: @ Image123,
Case closed. Happy Sunday to you oga mi. Mr Joagbaje had given us the best answer and I go with that. Read Joe's comment above sir. lol. Wetin you chop remain for Goshen nah? Remember to send your seed offerings,lol.

@ 5solas,
Great job to you also. Nice confirmation. Make my friend and brother Image123 follow join now.

Thank you and thanks again for bringing it up. I hope Image sees it the way we do.

Joagbaje: I've not been around. I still hope to be mire frequent. I've not read most posts on this thread. but I have this to say for the time being.

its not about if mattew, mark etc are new testaments or not. The books were obviously written under the new testamenttestament but the story they contain was under the old testament. they dealt about the MAN Jesus Christ the prophet of galilee. but his new testament ministry was not revealed in the gospels.

his resurrection life was not dwelt. the revelation of the new testament is in the epistles. especially in the teachings of Paul who Jesus gave the revelations of the church to. his writings were the mist influential Christian material in his generation. even earlier apostles were influenced by his writings. peter talked about Paul materials.

its also important to know that the gospel writers were influenced by him also.
Luke was his son. mark was his companion in missionary work until Paul sent him back. teachings of Paul were evident in johns epistles.

Great post.The passage from Ephesians 3 below, supports your assertion:



1 ¶ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;


19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

goshen360: Great Point! I want us to prove it more. Can You?

I think the scripture I quoted proved it far beyond whatever I can come up with. The new testament cannot start before the death of Christ (the testator). So in my opinion some parts of the gospels are new testament.
The gospels are said to be new testament by definition, but with the passage (Hebrews 9), it is clear they are not in actuality. However, I do not have any objections to their placement in the new testament (as defined) ; if for no other reason than the fact that, if they were placed in the old testament (as defined ), Image can rightly object that Matthew 28 should be taken to the new testament (as defined) .

Image123: One, is that they are placed in the new testament, not in the old testament by people who know more than us.

A very lame excuse, especially in the light of Heb.9

Two, is that they were written during the new testament dispensation, making them new testament books.

I can’t get your point. It is like saying, ’’ the boy is wicked because, he is wicked!’’

Three, is that you and other proponents of the gospels are OT would agree that not all the book is OT from your definition of OT. I mean if your definition is that NT begins after the cross, some verses and chapters of Matthew, Mark ,Luke and John are after the cross.

A very sound point and let me say that I do not object at all at the placement of these books in the new testament; for the simple reason that the parts after the cross are new testament , in my humble opinion. It is for this reason I said the books were[b] essentially[/b] (or mainly) old testament.

Four, is that most are not even agreed on the time the NT began. Is it at Calvary, after Christ's death, after His ressurection, after His ascension? When?

So your point is that , even if it is clear that the new testament began after the death of Christ, we should accept it began with Matthew 1:1, since we do not know the precise moment it began, after the death of Christ? Are you reading yourself?

i will come to other reasons later but let me deal with this below

Hebrews 9:

15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
5solas comes in with the men are dead reason, the question is [b]IS JESUS DEAD OR ALIVE?[/b]

It is better to ask the Holy Spirit, who inspired the writer of this epistle.

Essentially old testament, for the reason below:

Hebrews 9:

15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

RaffL:
Mastubation and fornication which is better

Fornication is obviously worse  .

OLAADEGBU:
Darwin's Day

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)

Thousands of clergy have signed "An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science."  On the Sunday closest to Charles Darwin's birthday, these "pastors" eulogize him and endorse evolutionary science as compatible with the Bible. Here are five reasons why this idea is grossly wrong.

• The Bible has absolutely no hint of ages of evolutionary development.  Forcing the "days" of Genesis 1 to mean "ages" can be done, but there is no support for that idea in the rest of Scripture (Psalm 33:6-9, 148:5-6; John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:3; Revelation 4:11; etc.).

• Evolution is not observed at all today.  Empirical science is based on observation and verification.  Nothing (from bacteria to people) is "evolving" into a "higher order."  Period.

• Fossil data does not show any transitional forms.  If evolution occurred prior to recorded history, it can only be documented by the fossils embedded in the water-deposited rocks of earth.  Those "missing links" are still missing.

• God's character absolutely forbids evolutionary methods.  God's holiness demands truth, and His omniscience demands perfection.  He cannot know what is best and then "create" something inferior.  He wrote that He took six days to create the universe (Exodus 20:11).  And He cannot lie!

• God's stated purpose for creating excludes evolution.  The creation reveals the Creator (Romans 1:20, Psalm 19:1-4), gives authority to the message of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14, Colossians 1:16-18), and is the foundation for the gospel and for worship (Revelation 14:6-7).  Creating is what God does at the moment of the new birth (Ephesians 2:8-10).  HMM III

For More . . .

Great post, absolutely endorsed.

frosbel:
the god you seem to cherish, is the one who accepts wilful [/b]sin in the life of a believer, while he/she continues to verbally proclaim the name of Christ.

That's why Calvin murdered a man and tortured several others, yet in your eyes he was saved .

[b]That you agree with an atheist , says it all.

I acknowledge the truth wherever I see it.

diluminati:
a God that loves you unconditionally is reserving the hottest parts of hades for you, if you as well do a little thing like lie about your weight.  Common sense is not very common!

Lol. The bolded very well describes Frosbel's god, he holds the ''sword of damocles'' over your head and you must stand at attention the rest of your life or else , !   Thankfully God is nothing like that!

ELECTION  * * * * * * * THE BIBLE TEACHES IT.  STOP DENYING IT.
                                   
                                          Here are several Scriptures on Election: God's sovereign purpose in salvation.
         

Exodus 33:19, "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

Deut. 7:6-8, "For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.  The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people:  But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Deut. 10:15, "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day."

Joshua 11:20, "For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses."

I Kings 20:42, "And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of [thy] hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people."

II Chronicles 6:6, "But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel."

Psalm 33:12, "Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance."

Psalm 65:4 "Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple."

Psalm 78:67-70, "Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:  But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.  And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth, which he hath established forever.  He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:"

Psalm 135:4, "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, [and] Israel for his peculiar treasure."

Proverbs 16:4, "The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Proverbs 21:1, "The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."

Isaiah 44:1-2, "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen, "

Isaiah 45:4, "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."

Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Malachi 1:2-3, "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness, "

Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen, "

Matthew 24:22, 24 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened, For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect, "

Mark 13:20, 22, 27 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days…For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect…And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

Luke 8:10, "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." (Matthew 11:25)

Luke 18:7, "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?."

John 10:14-16, "I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd , But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

John 13:18, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."

John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, "

John 15:19, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

John 17:9, "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine, "

Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

Acts 2:46-47, "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."

Acts 4:27,28, "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Acts 22:14, "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

Romans 8:29,30,33, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.  Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth, Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth."

Romans 9:6-26,
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.  For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.  What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.  So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?  [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?  As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.  And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Romans 11:5,7.8What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Cor. 1:27-29, "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Galatians 1:15, "But it pleased God who separated me from my mother's womb at birth, and called me by his grace."

Ephesians 1:5,11, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Ephesians 3:11, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:"

Colossians 3:12, "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4, "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."

1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

2 Thessalonians 2:13, "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 2:10, "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Titus 1:1, "Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;"

1 Peter 1:1,2, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

1 Peter 2:9, "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

1 Peter 5:13, "The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son."

2 Peter 1:10, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"



 
   The preceding has been what the Bible has to say concerning election.  If at this juncture, one still refuses to believe the doctrine of election, then I am sorry to have to pronounce you dead.  That is correct.  Only the dead will not and cannot see this truth unless/until  the Father of life opens the eyes and gives a new heart capable of believing, and this, ONLY, if it is His will to do so,   Me thinks the Word of God is pretty clear on it though.  My God be pleased to give you the understanding needed to have this precious security and Truth in your life too.  Peace to you.
                                                                                                               
             
 Iamproorizo    paul                                               


http://www.sovereignpotter.com/Election_the_Bible_teaches_it.html

newmi:
John 15:13
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
The love of God may be unconditional but for the christian it is not underservering, we niw deserved it because of Christ did for us on the cross and also when rose triumphantly from the dead. While on the cross and all the sin of all flesh was laid on Him He didn't love so He didn't get because the bible makes us to understand that the Father turned His face away from Jesus because His is so pure He cannot behold iniquity infact Jesus Christ didn't just bear the sins of all flesh on Him He became the embodiment of sin
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
(©2010) 2 Corinthians 5:21
For he who had not known sin made
himself to become sin in your place, that
we would become the righteousness of
God in him.

The bolded is against the whole tenor of scripture.

Rom. 5
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the[b] ungodly[/b].
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8[b] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us[/b].
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1 John 4
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Gal. 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,…

newmi:
John 15:13
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
The love of God may be unconditional but for the christian it
is not underservering, we niw deserved it because of Christ
did for us on the cross and also when rose triumphantly
from the dead. While on the cross and all the sin of all flesh
was laid on Him He didn't love so He didn't get because the
bible makes us to understand that the Father turned His face
away from Jesus because His is so pure He cannot behold
iniquity infact Jesus Christ didn't just bear the sins of all flesh
on Him He became the embodiment of sin
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
(©2010) 2 Corinthians 5:21
For he who had not known sin made
himself to become sin in your place, that
we would become the righteousness of
God in him.

The bolded is against the whole tenor of scripture.

Rom. 5
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the[b] ungodly[/b].
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8[b] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us[/b].
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1 John 4
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Gal. 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,…

frosbel:
God's love is unconditional , in that he loved us and gave up his Son to die for our sins.

But his continued Love for us , eternally speaking, is based on our obedience to the gospel.


"If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." - John 15:10

To help you out, God's love is unconditional and we cannot deserve it; however it does not overide His justice and those who die in unbelief will face His eternal wrath.

In my opinion the article serves only to lead people from the truth and I am amazed you brought it up.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately, you have left us in the dark as to what you think. It is safe, perhaps, to assume you agree with the author. Do you think God's love can be ''undeserved'', yet conditional? Do we have to earn His love then? Where then is His grace?

Zikkyy:
i don't know what the author was talking about. It appears you understand the article, maybe you can explain.

@Zikkyy
Thanks for your interest. I will try to do some explanation.
It will help a lot if you know the background from which the author is writing. The author is a Calvinist ( a person who believes a believer cannot lose salvation) and one of the core teachings of Calvinists is that of election - the teaching God chose in Christ, before the foundation of the world , those who would be saved. This teaching is often criticized by Arminians (people who believe salvation can be lost).The author thus intended to show that passages which are often used by the Arminians to reject the teaching of election, might not necessarily conflict with it and rather, might even be seen to be in support of it , if looked at carefully. To this end, he brings up passages which show God willing something to come to pass, while at the same time, disapproving of the sin that is the result.
To be short, the author shows clearly that there is a will of God, apart from the will of God (as we know it) which we know nothing about and which theologians before him have described in so many ways, one of which is the “hidden will” as opposed to the “revealed will”.

Zikkyy:
Laws (or commandments) applies to activities already in place or to activities likely to occur. The commandment is meant to guide behaviors but does not stop acts or behaviors that are contrary it. What that means is that somebody was going to do the killing.

You did not seem to get me. What I mean is that ,for example, God was not happy with all those involved in the crucifiction of Christ (because it was a cruel act, against His will) and yet, it was His will that Christ be crucified.

The article sheds light on the apparent contradiction.