₦airaland Forum

ayoku777:
Its not a tag, its a description. Because God does not manipulate it, or impose on us what we do with it. Its all up to us.

Is it different from ''will''? If it is not , then simply use ''will''. By talking of ''freewill'' when you mean ''will'' you hoodwink gullible people, you probably having first been hoodwinked.

It doesn't make sense to continually describe what you are writing about.

ayoku777:
Lets not derail this thread.

But freewill is not an illusion because people in scripture rejected God's warning to repent.

If there's no freewill you can't reject His warning to repent.

You don't work for salvation neither can having freewill save us. But you need freewill to accept God's offer to save you.

And people reject that offer many times in scripture. God does not warn us to repent then make us not repent. We do that on our own.

But lets not derail this thread.

Goodmorning and shalom.

Why do you consistently tag ''free" to "will" ?

.

johnydon22:
Thats all you find it to be justice... Why should we leave your empathy out of it..

If your empathy clearly is against this your biblical justice then i suggest you have a rethink about this your justice.

Their is nothing Just is this from of sadistic and barbaric savagry.

Christ saves completely from what? the punishment that he (his father) prepared for you in the first place?

Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his maker?

Job 4:17.

johnydon22:
This trend is for fellow catholics, ask questions of what you do not understand in the catholic doctrine and i will answer.
i.e: Any other person can also help and answer a question they know

Really? Thought you were an atheist.

johnydon22:
So from your own human empathy you cannot figure out what you find to be right or not.. ok let me rephrase the question.

[size=20] Is 90years of sin worth 100million years of punishment(to cut it)[/size]??

Yes. We cannot fully grasp the enormity of sin.
Leave my empathy out of it.
The good is that Christ saves completely all who come to God through Him. Completely!

johnydon22:
So you think everybody deserve damnation..

I need you to answer me this question with honesty without sentiment.

Is it justice to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment?

I am stating the position of the scriptures and I am sure the average believer will not have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with it.
But to your question, how do we know what is just? What is the yardstick for that?

johnydon22:
So the whole world deserve hell because of what one man did?

Adam sinned then he blames it on every human up till this 21st century..
Condemns them all to eternal torture because of what they dont even have any clue about... still bearing a grudge he had with adam and eve up till now..

He Knows he will throw them all in hell because of what one man did but creates them anyway...

Decides to save only some selected few he chooses and willing to subject countless others to eternal torment in fire for something they have not a single clue about...

And this is justice and goodness according to you?
Uuuurrgh i can believe a human can utter or bore out such nonsense and still claim this God is good, just, merciful..
Your God is sick, sardistic, moronic, incompetent and evil... quote me on it anytime..

All men deserve damnation because apart from the sin of Adam and Eve, they have actual sins which can only be atoned for by the blood of Christ.

ayoku777:
Jesus also talks about those who will be the greatest in the kingdom and those who will be the least.

Since according to you man has no freewill; does God also predestine Christians who will be the greatest in His kingdom and those who will be the least? Or He only predestines those who will go to heaven and let's your freewill determine your reward and position in heaven?

First of all, must you tag the word , ''free'' to the ''will'' of man? What purpose does it serve? I ask because the context in which you use it suggests you are talking of the will of man. However ,if you must use it, you should define it so it is clear what you mean when you use it.
Man of course has a will, but his will does not overrule that of God. Man's will must bow to God's. As everything is foreknown of God so is everything predestined. God does not only predestine the end of an event but the means to that end.

If man has no freewill, and everything we choose to do is the will of God masquerading as our will; is it God then that predestines some christians to remain carnal and some to serve Him zealously?

Carnal christians that still engaging in fornication and every vices; is it predestination also? Since man has no freewill.

And yet you claim I'm defending things poorly.

We cannot do otherwise than God foreknew/predestined, but as Christians we must seek to be guided by His word, for only there do we see His revealed will. Whatever we do we act out God's purposes- hidden or revealed. No one however gets rewarded for fulfilling the secret will of God.

I'm the one that has been showing from scripture where a man predestined to die said if he prays contrary to it, God will honour it.

Cite the scripture, please.

I'm the one that has shown in scripture, where a man ordained to sit on thrones and judge nations, became a son of perdition.

Who said he was ordained to seat on thrones?

I'm the one that has shown in scripture where Jesus warned christians whose names have been written in the book of life that it can be blotted out.

People who believe like you do, that salvation can be lost, are so fond of making assumptions. You assume that from this verse, EX. 32:32 and Psalm 69:28 it is proved that ones name can be blotted out, this is not necessarily so and those verses do not say so, simple. In getting their meaning , you have to compare them with these:
Php 4

3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

This is an encouragement for believers to know that their faith is not in vain.

Rev 13: 8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

People whose names are written in the book will refuse to worship the beast. Why? Simply because they are chosen for salvation.
Lk 10

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What is worth rejoicing over? What is worth rejoicing over the facts that demons were subject to the disciples? Their names are written in Heaven! If it can be blotted out, then what is the point of Jesus? Context will always defeat false teachings/teachers.

All you do is react emotionally to my points. You don't rebut them or give me your own explanation of those verses.

Some verses are difficult to explain in themselves, I prefer to be silent concerning those verses than risk gainsaying them.

I said writing names in the book of life from the foundation of the earth proofs predestination. You agreed.

Then I said blotting out names written in the book of life from the foundation of the earth proofs that predestination is not always fulfilled. You disagreed but didn't give your own interpretation of that verse.

What's your own interpretation of blotting names from the book of life; in relation to predestination and fulfilment?

Don't get emotional. This is issue of doctrine as revealed by scripture, remove emotionalism from it.

Just answer.

I have answered you to some measure at least.

An2elect2:
Do you believe God has a chosen people? If God wants to save everybody as you think why are there many scriptures that talk about those He has chosen unto salvation? 1Peter2:9, John 15:16, Jeremiah 1:5, Deut 14:2, Ephesians 1:3,4, 2 Thess 2:14, Isaiah 43:1-3,10, 1Thess 1:4, Galatians1:15-16,etc. Can scripture contradict itself? That God wants to save everybody and also a select people is impossible and devoid of logic.

If it has been explicitly stated that God has from the beginning chosen some to salvation 2Thess 2:13 and we come across the bible verses you quoted that seem to contradict the clear teaching of election, do we play along treacherously, force ourselves to interpret them independently, separately from others and/or pretend like other scriptures do not exist?
You will answer all these questions yourself when you understand that salvation is not by choice but by grace according to God's election.

plaetton:
Another baloney.
Cant you just see the glowing and glaring contradictions in your statement?
What you wrote above is probably the most moronic , most contradictory, the most meaningless statement ever uttered by a christian.

It clearly demonstrates, in no small measure, that you don't even have a clue about you believe and don't believe.
Like the typical religiotard, you are just making things up as go, albeit, with no clear pattern.

On the contrary, a very brilliant post.

johnydon22:
Ok let me get something straight here... According to you, Your God condemned the whole world and then decided to save a few?

The whole world was affected by the fall of Adam and were all deserving of hell. God in His grace decided to save some .

ayoku777:
I said I wouldn't reply any comment on this thread again.

But the Lord spoke this to me clearly as I was about to exit; and I felt it could help someone.

He said;

“It is not divine justice for me to reward or condemn you for what I made you do.”

The Lord told you! So on that basis we should set apart the truth we see in scripture? Truth is you are in delusion. I don't mean it as an offence, but, there it is. You have defended "freewill" so poorly. Men that end up in hell are justly condemned for their sins. The whole world deserved condemnation. The Lord in His wisdom decided to save some. Your annoyance is that he should have saved all. It is His prerogative to do with His own what He would. So quit complaining. He is the potter and we are the clay. This is what the Lord is saying to me.

An2elect2:
It beats me to think that someone who is scripturally well read, will bring God to a position below His creature.

Not only you, at this rate of thinking by them, someone may be saved without God knowing about it .

ayoku777:
I think I've been clear and ambiguous enough in my posts. Let's not keep this thread unneccesarily longer than it should.

But let me indulge one last time though.

No, you've not. Your posts have shown that you lack understanding of the subject matter.

This verse you quoted is one of the several verses in the bible that proof predestination.

But look at the same chapter, two verses later;

2Thess 2v15 -Therefore brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Why the admonition to stand fast and hold to the teaching? What does it matter? Haven't they been chosen unto salvation and predestined unto eternal life? Why stand fast in what you can't fall from?

At this stage you have to tell us what you think is the motive for a righteous life. If the motive is hell / fear of hell alone, then you have a point. If it is hell /fear of hell and love and gratitude to God then your point diminishes. If however neither hell nor fear of hell is a motive (for the believer), then you have virtually no point, for while this world continues, love for God and gratitude to Him will continue to motivate believers. Not to talk of rewards for service to God!

That's exactly what I've been saying; predestination is not cast in iron. Predestination is not the guarantee of its fulfilment. Freewill is still stronger than predestination.

That someone has been predestined unto salvation and eternal life doesn't mean he can't still be lost.

If predestination unto eternal life is the sure guarantee of not being lost; the same Paul who made the statement in that 2Thess 2v13, would not have made this statement in;

You lack understanding, sadly. Predestination is rejected by others like you who believe salvation can be lost, for the very reason that they believe if it exists, it is cast in stone .

1Cor 9v27 -But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest by any means, when I have preached to others, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY.

Meaning that to Paul, the possibilty of being lost or being a castaway remained a clear and present danger, despite Him being among the remnant Jews saved by election through faith.

And for this reason He kept his body under subjection and brought it into submission.

So how does your understanding of this verse not contradict his clear teaching that salvation is, by grace and not by works?

This "predestination always happens" mantra is the flip-side of the false doctrine "once saved always saved".

I don't know what you mean by "predestination always happens" not to talk of its mantra.
It is because you have made up your mind, you've been deceived that "once saved always saved" is false, that you war against the truths by which you can arrive at that conclusion. You have made your conclusions before the facts, now you distort the facts to be secure in your error/false conclusions.

Having names written in the book of life from the foundation of the earth is proof of predestination.

True.

And having names written in the book of life blotted out is proof that predestination is no guarantee of fulfilment.

Even babes will laugh at you for this, nay, even atheists do, and rightly too!

There is predestination and there is freewill; and freewill is stronger than predestination ultimately.

I don't know why you can't talk of the will of man without tagging ''free'' to it. It is probably the reason you are deceived by that empty term.
To answer you, God's determination (for this is what predestination amounts to) cannot be weaker than the will or determination of man. Nor can what God purposed before the world was made depend for its fulfillment on the will of man, rather man's will bends for the fulfillment of God's will.

Matt. 11
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

There is no where in scripture, even in the epistles of the apostles that created the impression that being predestined unto salvation means you cannot be lost no matter what.

Jesus warned in;

Rev 3v11 -Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

If being predestined unto a crown of life is the guarantee of receiving it, will Jesus warn us saying ...that no man take thy crown?

If our crowns are our crowns indeed, and not our salvation, why wont He?
Salvation is the basic gift. There are other gifts that are rewards for obedience/service.

No one is saying there is no predestination, no one is even saying its not a great and thankful honour to be predestined unto the adoption of sons and unto salvation.

That is precisely what Ayoku777 has been saying. The believer has no guarantee of salvation and must live as though the sword of Damocles is just above their heads. Yea, live in more fear than that they had before believing!

But what is equally clear from scripture is that:

Predestined names can be blotted out. Rev 3v5

Predestined crowns can be taken. Rev 3v11

Predestined thrones can be vacated. Matt 19v28

...by the actions and choices of the person predestined.

We can go round and round, but it is clear from scripture that predestination is not cast in iron. Predestination is not the guarantee of its fulfilment.

Rantings.

Freewill is and will ultimately be stronger than predestination.

Shalom!

If common sense does not tell you that man's will is not stronger than God's then let it tell you that God's will as it comes first , is the cause of man's will and that man's will as it comes after God's is the effect of God's will.
Let it teach you also that, God's foreknowledge does not depend on man's will but that man must act according to God's foreknowledge.

@Ayoku777
Please comment on this verse quoted by An2elect2:
2 Thess.

13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

timonski:
i am saying that there is nothing like foreknowledge as related to mankind. What you call divine foreknowledge is not.
There are bible prophecies which come to pass. Can you with boldness tell me that God's hand was not involved in the fulfillment of any of those prophecies? No? Methinks those are just declarations, and by his power He makes them come to pass. That doesn't look like foreknowledge to me.

If God's predetermination is certain then His knowledge of future events would be also. This is what we call foreknowledge.

timonski:
Well, it goes this:
If Yahweh directly saw the future, then it would be absurd creating Adam after seeing the billions of souls perish in eternal destruction. * It would have been foolish sending Angels? to see "if the reports from sodom and gomorrah" are true. Thatz after seeing them sodomize each other.
* It would be dumb for Yahweh to be angry, seeing as He had already foreseen said events.
* it wouldn't make any sense for Jesus to pray for His father "to let this cup pass", fully knowing He was going to die via hanging.
The above points and more are reasons why Yahweh isn't foreseeing; foreknowing;omnipresent etc. And are reasons why this should be closed.

Seriously, I just realized you need eye salves.

timonski:
he "knew" from the beginning because it had already been set up. Lol
seriously, to avoid confusion, let's use the term FORESIGHT. I know that the sun shall shine tomorrow. If that isn't foreknowledge, then what is?

Foresight and foreknowledge are two different things. Foreknowledge is certain and a divine attribute while foresight is not.
You can't know to a certainty that the sun will shine tomorrow.

bingbagbo:
Psalm 139:16 Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me, when none of them as yet existed. -NRSV

May the Lord bless you a million fold.

timonski:
what verse are you referring to? I just read psalm 139, and it says nothing about foreknowledge/prescience.

The whole Psalm is virtually about His knowledge and foreknowledge. However comment on verse 16

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

ayoku777:
God is the one that saves but He doesn't impose salvation on any man. God's salvation can be rejected, man has the freewill to reject it.

John 3v19 -And this is condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Acts 13v46 -Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you, but seeing ye PUT IT FROM YOU, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn unto the gentiles.

Can you see, an individual can reject light and choose darkness. And a man can put off the gospel from himself.

God is the one that saves, but He doesn't impose His salvation. He presents you with the offer, and you choose to accept or reject it. God saves those who accept the offer to be saved by grace through faith.

If God does the saving, He must know who would be saved/who He wants to save before hand and such a one cannot but be saved. God saves! He doesn"t position someone so such a one can save themselves. He saved those He would by the death of Christ. Acts 13 (the same chapter you quoted)goes on to say:

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts2

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

If the salvation of a person is not determined by God, it follows a person is saved before God knows it.

timonski:
"Declaring" is not the same as "seeing". There is a whole lot of difference there. He can declare a certain event to occur, and by His power makes it come to pass.
Seeing the future is nt only impossible, but illogical. That would make him a troll.

What do you have to say about Psalm 139?

timonski:
The funny thing is that the bible never claimed FOREKNOWLEDGE as one of Yahweh's attributes.
Yahweh, according to the bible, declares the something and then makes it come to pass. He doesn't have the power to see the future just as we are seeing the present.

This is false. The Bible rather asserts that, He knows the end from the beginning.
Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Also read Psalm 139.

ayoku777:
Fine, at least now you've made your position clear. That God is the one that chooses to save some and He chooses not to save some.

Is my assertion different from what Grace teaches? Do any save themselves? Is it not rather God that saves? So why does He not save ALL persons?

ayoku777:
Fine, at least now you've made your position clear. That God is the one that chooses to save some and He chooses not to save some.

I disagree with you though and there are scriptures that also disagree with you. Scriptures that say clearly, that God wants ALL MEN SAVED and is unwilling that ANY SHOULD PERISH:

2Peter 3v9 -The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to REPENTANCE.

1Timothy 2v3-4 -For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our saviour; who will have ALL MEN SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

But at least you've made your opinion clear. Good enough.

I have referred you to a thread on this , nontheless, you should know that there is a secret and a revealed will of God. By His revealed will, He does not desire the death of a sinner. However , by His secret will, He does. How else do you explain the fact that some perish against His will?
Is the will of God always good as you know good?
Amos 3:6

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

ayoku777:
You said free will is a lie from hell. Meaning even our "choices" are God's counsel, much like a "dummy freewill".

Do you believe this scriptures?

2Peter 3v9 -The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL should come to REPENTANCE.

Do you agree according to this scripture that God is not willing that any should perish?

Another scripture;

1Timothy 2v3-4 -For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our saviour; who will have ALL MEN SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you agree with this scripture also that its God good and acceptable will to have ALL MEN SAVED?

Do you agree or you disagree?

Now if God wants all men saved and none to perish, why then are many not saved and many have perished? If according to you man has no freewill and only God's counsel is done.

Good questions.
Please endeavour to read the opening post of this thread and tell me where you agree or disagree-https://www.nairaland.com/855262/there-two-wills-god

An2elect2:
God's foreknowledge according to His eternal decree determines our "choices" not the other way around.

So true because, future events, cannot be the cause of former ones, but rather effects of former ones.

johnydon22:

If you hold the doctrine aright you will not be a fatalist.

ayoku777:
You most probably have not carefully read through all I've been saying.

God's foreknowledge of a thing can never be wrong and I've never said it can. But I've maintained that foreknowledge is not predestination. That God knows what you will do doesn't mean He's the one that predestined you to do it.

So you believe "freewill" is a lie and man has no freewill over his choices?

Let me ask you. Is it God that predestines people to go to hell, or they go there by the choices of their own freewill?

Its not a trick question. I just want to understand your idea of God.

Is it God that predestines people to go to hell, or they go there by the choices of their own freewill?

All men, by reason of the fall were supposed to end up in hell. However God in His mercies decided to save some . These are they referred to as elects . The rest He left to go the natural way they were going-hell.
1 Thess. 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Pet. 2

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Jude

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom.9

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

If you believe these men can ''change'' their destinies, then you obviously miss the point .

ayoku777:
Let me explain it step by step this way:

PREDESTINATION (Proorizo) God's predetermined will for a man. What He created a man to be an do.

Let me show you examples in scriptures of God's will for man.

2Peter 3v9 -The Lord is not slack concerning His promises, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.

God's will for everyman is for none to perish and for every to come to repentance.
The atheists on the thread, sadly, seem to understand the salient points better than you.

1Timothy 2v3-4 -For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our saviour; who will have ALL MEN SAVED, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God's will is for ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the true knowledge of Christ.

FREEWILL: This is a man's power of choice or right of decision to choose to submit to God's will for his life or go his own way and do his own thing.

Everyone who is in hell or will go to hell will do so because of this factor -freewill. Because it is not God's will for any man to perish.

And it further goes to show that with freewill, God's will is not always done, and what He created a man to be and to do is not always fulfilled.

FOREKNOWLEDGE: This is God's ability to know beforehand what you will decide to do with the freewill and power of choice that He gave you.

God knows those who will reject or accept His offer of salvation in Christ Jesus. He knows those who will end up in hell and those who will make heaven.

But one thing you need to get straight is this all important fact: What God foreknows about what you will choose to do with your freewill is not decided by Him; and its not necessarily His predetermined will for you (predestination)

If a man goes to hell, God didn't predestine him for hell, the choices he made with his freewill took him to hell.

Infact Jesus said this concerning hell in:

Matthew 25v41 -Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS.

Can you see? Notice hell was prepared only for Lucifer and his angels, not for any man. No man was predestined for hell. They go there of there own freewill.

So to answer your question; NO! I don't believe foreknowledge (what God knows beforehand about what you will do with your freewill) can change. But foreknowledge is not predestination. The two are different in scripture.

Predestination is what God created a man to be and do. Foreknowledge is what He knows you will be and do by the choices of your freewill.

But as I said earlier, God does not judge us by His foreknowledge, if He did, He would just create people and throw them straight into hell, without even letting them live out their lives, because He knows that's where they will end up anyway. But that will not be pure justice.

Justice is judging people by what they did, not by what you foreknew they would do.

You tried to make foreknowledge and predestination to mean the same thing. You are wrong!

You said "If I eat rice because God knows... That's predestination." No, you're far wrong; that's not predestination. You didn't eat rice BECAUSE God knows, you ate rice because you chose to eat rice. God just knew what you will choose; He didn't make you choose.

If you commit suicide, you chose to commit suicide. God only knew you will commit suicide, He didn't make you commit suicide or predestined you to commit suicide. You committed suicide of your own freewill.


Calling something the will of God, just because God knew it will happen is wrong. There are many things God knows will happen that are not His handiwork or even His will. Foreknowledge is not predestination.

If you want to know the meaning of a word in the bible, study how it was used and applied in the bible.

What God knows you will decide to be and do (foreknowledge) CAN BE DIFFERENT from what He created you to be and do (predestination).

God's foreknowledge of your choices doesn't mean He predestined you to make those choices. You make them of your own freewill. Get it now?

It is impossible to walk through the maze you created up there.

JahzaraAde:
5solas, I have a huge request!

Can you recommend a true Reformed Church in both Lagos and Ibadan, which expressively preaches biblical Christianity and the five points of Grace. Especially a church that knows about the teachings of Christian teachers like John Piper, Tim Keller and RC Sproul.

I have friends who were saved over here in the UK, and who have now relocated back to Nigeria. However, they are finding it difficult to find churches which discuss and uphold reformed theology.

Thank you sooo much in advance bro!
Sola Gratia.

So good to know you have such a high esteem for reformed teaching.
The Presbyterian Church is the only one I know of. Unfortunately , I don't live in the Lagos area and so don't know of any.

italo:
Bidam, ichuka, 5solas and others...

Who are those Gentiles Paul says will be cut off if they dont continue in kindness in Romans 11?

Are they Christians or unbelievers?

I believe that the gentiles being referred to are believers. I have never thought otherwise.
However, it does not necessarily follow that the verse teaches that a believer can lose salvation,especially since this sentiment is not expressed but is a conclusion you arrived at.
Taking in the context of the whole chapter and of the whole book, such a conclusion is untenable.
The issue as to how we are saved has been addressed earlier on in the book, nothing was said as to how we can lose salvation (because such a thing does not exist!).
In chapter three Paul showed that because man was so sinful , he does not seek God and he cannot be justified by doing what the law required. He can only be saved by putting his faith in Christ. In chapter four, such a man is accounted righteous as a result. In chapter five, he declares that if a man gets saved when he was an enemy of God, how much safer would he be when he is now God's friend! Towards the end of the chapter, he declares that,'' But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
'' (5:20) and not ,''where sin arises, the spirit departs'' as some dream.
In chapter 6:1, he reiterates the idea that the grace of God abounds towards us when we sin, but must we sin because of this (knowing God's hatred for sin?). He does not even imply a loss of salvation as a consequence for sin, but rather he exhorts that we can do far better than continue in sin.
In chapter seven, he tells us that even though we have been saved and our hearts transformed,the Spirit living in us; yet we are still subject to temptations and will still sin because of the fight between our flesh and spirit.
In chapter eight, he reiterates the point that we are saved because what we could not do (keeping the law (commandments)) has been done for us by the death of Christ. In 8:18, he declares

" For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us ".

He is of course referring to believers. If they can lose salvation, this verse would be so false. According to him, we are saved and are waiting for our adoption, that is, the redemption of our bodies (8:23). What can beat the assurance of salvation he then goes to establish in 8:28-39.

'' 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Try reconciling the above with the notion that a believer can lose salvation!

Having established the security of those saved, he goes on to lament the fate of the Israelites who were chosen as a nation (his own people) and wondered why so few of them were saved compared to the gentiles. He goes further to console himself that even though that was the case , the word of God had not failed. He then set forth the doctrine of election! Indeed he repeated it! People do not save themselves! God does!
God chooses whom He would save! There is such a thing as Predestination! He had said it before in 8:28-30. He proved that even amongst Israel as a nation, not everyone was chosen. Those who are children of God are children of the promise (9:8 ) How can children of the promise (those whom God chose to save) lose salvation/end up lost?
9:16,

" So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

He has mercy on whom He would have mercy and damns whom he would. And for all these, it is testified in the same chapter that there is no unrighteousness in Him. The Psalmist says,

"Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places."

(Psalm 135:6.)

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased"

(Psalm 115:3)

"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

(Dan 4:35)

There are "vessels of wrath fitted for destruction" and "vessels of mercies afore prepared unto glory,".

The vessels of mercies will be glorified as stated in 8:30 and would be called the children of the living God (9:26).
How can these be lost/end up lost?
The ''remnants'' (''elects'') would be saved because it is their "portion" (appointed end) and this is the doing of the Lord (9:29). Not their doing! This knocks out the notion of freewill flat!
So why were much of the Jews unsaved? Revelation! Jesus has not revealed the Father to them!
Matt.11:25-27.

25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Compare this with 9:30-33.

They wanted to be saved by works - keeping the laws (commandments) and they never got it, but the gentiles which did not seek to be saved by doing good works (keeping the commandments) were now saved because of their faith! How can this be? GRACE! Unmerited favour! That was the cause.
Continuing his lamentation for Israel, he gives the reason why much of them are unsaved,(10:4 puts an end as to whether a believer can lose salvation,once a person has Him, the deed is done!), he explains that they are two ways to be righteous - one is by keeping the laws (commandments), the other is by faith in Christ. Ironically , he says the former does not avail,does not count, does not save and unfortunately, this is the one they have and keep chasing after. The second however is what counts , the gentiles did not even seek to be righteous through this way, but God revealed it to them, leaving the Israelites blinded. He goes on to say to get saved was easy! Simply to put ones faith, hope of ever being able to get to heaven on Christ. In the book of Hebrew, he explains why this is so by extolling the virtues of Christ and how everything about His sacrifice was better than the old way of trying to be saved by keeping the laws (commandments).
But the snag is that the word of God has to be preached and God must find the lost (10:20). We don't truly find God, rather He finds us.

" But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? "

(Gal. 4:9)
This brings us to chapter 11. He explains that God has not cast away the Israelites even though it seemed to be the case. To prove this he mentions the case of the remnants God had during the time of Elijah's persecution, that Elijah was not even aware of! He goes on to say that at the present time, there is also a remnant according to the election of grace. Here we go again! Even though most of the Israelites were not saved, yet some, a ''remnant'' were, by grace.
If it is by grace,then it is not of works, if it is of works, then it is not by grace! (11:5,6) What a profound statement! Asserted four times as it were! That even the deaf itself would hear. And no one who hears this would assert that verse 22 implies that salvation can be lost. On what basis? Definitely not on the basis of works. On unbelief? What constitutes unbelief? Can unbelief exist without evil works? Faith is not man's only work as some think, man does no work in his salvation.
I should end here, but how can I leave out chapter 12:1,2 which exhorts believers to live holy lives because of God's mercies towards them. If they could be lost it makes more sense to give hell as a reason. So also chapter 13 where he appeals to believers to obey authorities.
To sum up, context is all important and if one ignores it, he can even come up with the teaching that not only can believers save themselves, they can even save others! And Paul would be cited to prove it:

11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.