@joagbaje, u re not been just!

free123:

what is wrong if a pastor helps the poor?

Don't get me wrong .I believe in helping the poor. I do help the poor.and I have a home filled with people that are nit my blood relative. Some picked from roadside. I won't say more than that . . . .The point is I do believe in helping the poor. I have done some thread and teaching on that even on Nairaland here.
The question we should ask is that those who attack ministers falsely in the name of helping the poor, who have they helped. At least the ministers being attacked are doing something . They have helped many, given scholarship to many

plappville:

@joagbaje, u re not been just!

Would you care to explain

ogajim:

^^^
When you write stuff like this, you EXPOSE your self to the kinds of ridicule you get,

Christ bore my reproach , I bear his reproach too.

how can you compare those who are homeless in the state of Washington(where Bill Gates is from) with the kind of poverty in Nigeria? Many homeless folks here are in that condition by choice for the most part and even get the option to sleep in shelters operated by non profits and mostly by Churches, the ones you see on the street all the time just don't want to be bothered with being told when to wake up, not smoke whatever or some other reason.
Speak on what you know man, Bill committed how much of his fortune to Charity?

How many people have you helped? Let's stop talking. Let's start helping. Those who do the work don't talk. You can't be hiding your money and be dictating how another man should spend his own.

I went home this year and i will never forget the experience.There are average of 3 churches in a street.Level of poverty is something else.I can't imagine that a sensible human being can sit down in a church where the pastor has a jet.something is really,really,really wrong with christians in Nigeria.

When the chief 'benchmark' for righteousness and truth is measured by what men physically/materially possess or don't possess, i'm afraid we become what we point our accusing fingers at others.

Joagbaje:

Would you care to explain

They got you. Thats the power of packaging . Worked on your ladily emotion for the fun of it. How will someone cut pictures from here and there to form a story that doesn't make sense.

Apart from the video, i know the level of poverty in nigeria villages and i know that the church can help, what i didn't know was if those men of God were this Rich. I never believed that any man of God who is Christ like will accumulate wealth becos (( There is a place prepared for him)) I take example of Pastor Kumuyi, all about him is a simple life, his church is also rich but he is totally Christlike, he teaches Christlike. (becareful, i am not a deeperlife so don't misinterpret)

I view one of his sermon when he say, all i need is Holiness, take my car, take my children, i don't need all that, all i need is Holiness. Isn't this a good example of Christlike? No wedding ring in the hand, modest manner in which his wedding ceremony was conducted? his manner of preaching etc. I mean, the spirits tells u who they are.
I strongly believe there re many others there in Nigeria who teaches and do like Jesus. Wealth aside, live a normal Holy life.

Have we heard from the man before condemning him? I love to conclude from facts not assumption. Can tithes and offering buy a plane . With all the budgets of running the church? You can judge if you're objective enough to hear from the other side. Where the money came from. And what are the planes for. What is the reason behind it.

Hey, tithes and offering can buy as many plan as it wants. 10percent of each members, uncountable branches and yet u re talking of budgets? if the church has so much difficulties to meets up budgets, then they couldn't afford a a jet how much more 4 jets etc.
No reason should be behind a church bying a plane, a bus can enter thoses villages if it is for Gods work.

Is he the one to so the work of the government. You should question the people elected into office . Is there no poverty in bill gate town. Are there no Americans on the street without a home? Why do we put every blame on the ministers of God. They have their calling . Which is primaritly to preach the gospel. Not to do government job.

Why u compare those Pastors with BILL GATE? they ve do not ve same statut, Yes the Gov has roles to play, but if u look at this case, it seem the correuption in the Gov is affecting the church as well. tHEIR CALLING IS TO ACCUMULATE WEALTH AND MATERIAL THINGS
(make i eat make my broda die system).

And u re comparing the US poor to the children in this video? i hope u ve a heart.
Do u really think those people u call poor in the west are in same level of poverty as in this video?
They ve monthly allowances, most of them prefares to sleep outside and spend all their allowances in drinking Strong Alcohol. One euros will bless Heaven from those villages in the video.
The bible told us that, the church/pastors helping the poor is Gods work. So if a Church is too rich, lets some of the Church wealth be spread to the poor.

Anyone who practice the principles of prosperity will prosper. Jesus paid the price. We only need to embrace the message of faith.

Jesus prosperity was dining and wining with the unbeliever to attract them to repentance, although Wealth is a gift from God but shouldn't be a boast about thing. Why accumulating it when u are in the christian world? WEALTH MATERIAL AND HOLINESS can they WORK TOGETHER? .

Joagbaje:
. . .
Anyone who practice the principles of prosperity will prosper. Jesus paid the price. We only need to embrace the message of faith. . . .

This is part of the problem! When Christianity is turned to a means for material and financial gain. Note that this time around it will be difficult to deceive us about the meaning of "prosperity" since we are talking about "pastors" owning jets, oil rigs and so on.

Anyway compare what we are seeing and reading on this thread with 1 Timothy 6 which talks of "men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

The same passage goes on to say:

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

It is the same problem as some have in that either because of greed or because of intellectual limitation with inability to make fine distinctions, they find it difficult to understand the simple biblical teaching to give WITHOUT expecting anything in return from God or man but in the assurance that God sees the action of giving and will reward it as he sees fit. For example, I see a reference to Luke 6:35 but with an unfortunate blinder that the passage says to give without expecting anything in return but knowing God will reward. Maybe because the language is "hoping to gain nothing" --- but of course which simply boils down to 'not expecting anything in return' as the basis or reason for giving.

Anyway, I say again that this kind of frauds being discussed will continue to proliferate as long as the false teachings on tithing, including the insidious "voluntary tithing",  is not recognised for the falsehood that it is.

^^ Don't tire yourself on voluntary tithing. There's nothing you gain personally to enrich your own spiritual life when you repeat false teaching because you can't see anything else. Just saying.

Luke 6:35 is clear - "lend, hoping for nothing again" underscores what we find in Leviticus 25:37. It does not mean that Christian giving is to be WITHOUT expecting anything in return.

Giving is reciprocal - three verses after Luke 6:35 is verse 38 - "Give, and it shall be given unto you".

There is a difference between those verses:

[list][li]LEND, hoping for nothing again - v. 35[/li]
[li]GIVE, and it shall be given unto you - v.38[/li][/list]

They are not confused or mixed up at all.

HOW CAN A PASTOR OWN AN OIL RIG IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE OIL INDUSTRY IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NATIONALISED INDUSTRY. OR IS IT POSSIBLE TO NOW OWN A PRIVATE OIL COMPANY IN NIGERIA. PLEASE SOMEBODY ENLIGHTEN ME.

@Poster,,,,pls get this or load this up on facebook,,,,,there is absolutely no where in the world where theses criminals in the name of the lord exists other rhan Nigeria!!!!

I do not wish to derail this thread; however, simply for the records and for the sake of others, I repeat that Christian giving is to give WITHOUT expecting anything in return but in the assurance that God who sees the action of giving will reward it as He sees fit. On another occasion or thread, I might be willing to go into a detailed explanation (not even argument or "debate" of this.

For present purpose, I will simply quote a short contextual passage where you see that the giving expected is selfless giving. Luke 6

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

I will leave that issue at that so as to try and get back on topic for which purpose I repeat a point that I always make and that I think is always pertinent in these situations: this kind of frauds being discussed will continue to proliferate as long as the false teachings on tithing, including the insidious "voluntary tithing", is not recognised for the falsehood that it is.

@Pastoraio; so you dont know that private individuals and companies own oil wells and rig. platforms in Nigeria? Half informed man you, Pastor aborisha. if you have real money, you can even build refinery, along with the holdings, mentioned.

@Frosbel: Don't forget to add yourself to the infamous list of liars, aka present day prophets.
Interesting to know that prophets are teachers, too. This single line destroys the idea that Jesus was the last prophet. See.
And the litmus for knowing bad prophets is that something they say will not come to pass. Same litmus proves a True Prophet of God, being a True spirit from Him, because nothing he says will not come to pass. He was a True Teacher of Information from God. Allahumma Salli Alehi Nabiyya Karim Maullanna Muhammad [as].

@Lappville: Take it easy frenchie, about the heavy heart. There is more to meet the eyes than the lying prophets. No prophet from God since 14 Centuries ago. And there will not be a single prophet again, on earth, till Jesus returns for the first time, within the Ummah Wasatha.

^^Repeating your misrepresentations does not add anything to your previous posts.

It is okay to explain (or argue or debate if you wish) whatever you want to pass across. I don't know anyone who has posted to argue that Christian giving must be selfish in order for it to qualify as giving. We know that giving among believers is selfless, but that does not mean therefore that it has to be misrepresented the way you keep repeating your fallacy.

There is a clear difference between verses 35 and 38 of Luke 6. To "lend" is not the same as to "give".

Giving in a selfless manner does not negate or contradict the fact that it is reciprocal.

If a believer truly wants to give WITHOUT expecting anything in return, he or she should clearly be willing to shun all dubious claims to "assurances" and "trust" in God for "rewards", however pretentiously worded. To have assurance or trust in God for His reward at any time is the same as expecting something in return for giving. All the sweet-talking, paraphrasing and re-phrasing with qualifying adjectives of 'love-driven', 'selfless giving', etc. are lame attempts to deny the obvious.

It is a sanctimonious fallacy often repeated that giving is 'WITHOUT' expecting anything in return from God or man. To maintain that fallacy is to ignore the clear teaching of Scripture.

@Frosbel: Don't forget to add yourself to the infamous list of liars, aka present day prophets.
Interesting to know that prophets are teachers, too. This single line destroys the idea that Jesus was the last prophet. See.
And the litmus for knowing bad prophets is that something they say will not come to pass. Same litmus proves a True Prophet of God, being a True spirit from Him, because nothing he says will not come to pass. He was a True Teacher of Information from God. Allahumma Salli Alehi Nabiyya Karim Maullanna Muhammad [as].

You lost me here , try and make a logical sentence for once , then I might begin to debate you again

I know I always loose you. Alhamdulillah. You are not the only one who is educated or overseas.

If white people can understand me, it may be that your heart is hard that you find truth difficult to swallow. Arrogant.

Sweetnecta:

I know I always loose you. Alhamdulillah. You are not the only one who is educated or overseas.

If white people can understand me, it may be that your heart is hard that you find truth difficult to swallow. Arrogant.

Sorry Bro. I was only joking oo

Pastor AIO:

HOW CAN A PASTOR OWN AN OIL RIG IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE OIL INDUSTRY IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NATIONALISED INDUSTRY. OR IS IT POSSIBLE TO NOW OWN A PRIVATE OIL COMPANY IN NIGERIA. PLEASE SOMEBODY ENLIGHTEN ME.

Pastor Jo(419)Agbaje is at best a very DISHONEST CEC Pastor but then again, what do you expect from these lot? He went from making allegations about poor folks in Bill Gates' home state to enquiring about what yours truly is doing for the poor folks in the DMV area.

One can only feel sorry for the folks that follow the likes of JoAgbaje, it's like seeing a woman smoking in a car loaded with kids, you get my drift. We need to pray that Agbaje and others like him see the light.

^^^
I don't know what you derive from attacking joagbaje. I will still speak the truth either you like it or not. But moderators still need to do something about people like you in a public forum. If you don't have something meaningful to contribute , it's not a must to make a post if insulting joagbaje is your only contribution. If you don't believe there are private oil rigs in Nigeria ,why not ask questions ?

Proverbs 18:13
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

. Why call me 419. Did I steal from you? That is not christ like

plappville:

Apart from the video, i know the level of poverty in nigeria villages and i know that the church can help, what i didn't know was if those men of God were this Rich

Are the planes personal toys. Why not make enquiry. There's a ministry that has a big ship. Which they use to move relief to people in different parts of the world . If you dint know what they do with the "Mercy Ship" you would have labelled them materialistic .

I never believed that any man of God who is Christ like will accumulate wealth becos (( There is a place prepared for him)) I take example of Pastor Kumuyi, all about him is a simple life, his church is also rich but he is totally Christlike, he teaches Christlike. (becareful, i am not a deeperlife so don't misinterpret)

It's obvious you're not a member. I'm sure when you see His house and car "your" opinion of simplicity will change.

No reason should be behind a church bying a plane, a bus can enter thoses villages if it is for Gods work.

They should drive bus to America and Asia ?. Are you serious? If a man has an international ministry and has several nations to go and ministers and also experienced delayed flights and cancelled flights which ruined his schedules . He may consider to chatter plane or buy one. So find out Instead of criticising. I think one of their members addressed these issues of planes in a thread here ,find out

Why u compare those Pastors with BILL GATE? they ve do not ve same statut,

Poverty is a global thing. If you blame winners chapel because poor people are on the street. Are there no poor people in new York? You should hold the people elected into offices accountable. The church is not accountable for government job.the church has it's system of helping .

Yes the Gov has roles to play, but if u look at this case, it seem the correuption in the Gov is affecting the church as well. tHEIR CALLING IS TO ACCUMULATE WEALTH AND MATERIAL THINGS
(make i eat make my broda die system).

The church primary purpose is preaching the gospel. And every church has it's structure of helping members in need.

The bible told us that, the church/pastors helping the poor is Gods work.

Quote the scripture pls

So if a Church is too rich, lets some of the Church wealth be spread to the poor.

A man that is poor should work and practise giving. That's what the bible teaches.

Ephesians 4:28
28 Let the thief steal no more, but rather let him be industrious, making an honest living with his own hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.

2 Thessalonians 3:10
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

WEALTH MATERIAL AND HOLINESS can they WORK TOGETHER? .

Yes they go together. I agree that this who have should share. God bless us to be a blessing . How do you know the charity work of the man you criticise. We should rather be concerned with our own charity works instead of telling others how to use their money.

@Joagbaje
You have come again with your filthy lies, if Oyedepo has an oil rig (which I seriously doubt) he must have bought it with money he fleeced of his congregation. An oil rig is a very sophisticated and technical equipment which could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. It is not a toy you sow as a seed to an ignorant thieving bishop who would not know what to do with it. Questions you may wish to consider.
What does he do with the oil rig?
Does he have an oil block?
Does he even have a licensed oil production company?
Or is he into oil service?
If then which company does he drill for?
What is the name of his supposed company?
What is the name of the fictitious character that 'gave' him the supposed oil rig and where did the character steal the hundreds of millions of dollars it costs to buy a rig?

He didnt buy it. It was a seed sown into his life

Someone stole an oil rig belonging to 150 million people and presented it to one man as a gift, Interesting ?! A so-called man of God with ethics knows the right thing to do and its certainly not buying a private jet.

But your assumption is wrong. Private people owns oil rigs in Nigeria. The oil rig of the bishop is not in nigeria to my understanding. But you should make independent enquiries. Ask the members

@joagbaje
I asked seven questions and your single answer does not address any of them. If you are not sure of your facts I suggest you keep silent on the issue and stop spreading lies. Also I forgot to ask; having an oil rig implies he is into oil production and he probably has a oil block which could cost anything btw $50 million and $2 billion allocated from government. Was the oil block also given to him as seed or he bought it? If so were did he get the money to buy it? As an oil rig is pointless except it is put to use in an oil block for exploration.

Joagbaje:

He didnt buy it. It was a seed sown into his life

Wow !!

Seed sown into HIS LIFE , not into the KINGDOM of GOD.

I am sorry , these chaps are all false prophets !

I rarely condemn anyone in ministry but I cant keep this to myself again because I had two revelations about chris oyak that really confirmed that is a fake pastor (Rom. 16:17). My last night revelation was indeed a straw that broke the camel’s back. He who has ear let him hear. Pray that God should direct your path on this earth/Christian race so as not to be in bondage of a wolf in sheep clothing .
I also had a revelation about Tunde Bakare but it’s yet to be finally confirmed.

U must be a broke ass dude getting strangled by poverty and jealousy. U can as well open a church and let see how wealthy u can get. Why aint u criticizing bill gate for being the richest man on earth, he shud generously share his wealth to myopic penniless mushrooms like u that lack vision of the laws of wealth. How rich was Abraham, how cattles, sheeps, golds did the bible recorded that he had, wel, if i'm to think like u, he shud have shared em, how wealthy was isaac, how affluent was david, solomon etc. If an unbeliever can own a jet, fleet of cars etc why cant a child of God, a pastor. Whatsover(both church) the lord has not planted must be rooted off. Stop hating, go get a job broke ass

U must be a broke ass dude getting strangled by poverty and jealousy. U can as well open a church and let see how wealthy u can get. Why aint u criticizing bill gate for being the richest man on earth, he shud generously share his wealth to myopic penniless mushrooms like u that lack vision of the laws of wealth. How rich was Abraham, how cattles, sheeps, golds did the bible recorded that he had, wel, if i'm to think like u, he shud have shared em, how wealthy was isaac, how affluent was david, solomon etc. If an unbeliever can own a jet, fleet of cars etc why cant a child of God, a pastor. Whatsover(both church) the lord has not planted must be rooted off. Stop hating, go get a job broke ass

@ Poster, So your own ministry is to unravel fake men of God? Your video appeals to emotions but not to the spirit. Well, Oyedepo happens to be my pastor, I give heavily and am getting more blessed so I dont get you.
Those that give to them and their ministries, do you know their motive and faith level?

Only by faith is good report gotten. My faith is to God and not men so my giving yields His blessings. Just be careful ok?

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." - 1 Pet 5:1-3 (1 Tim 3:3-8, Tit 1:7 )

Its indicative of the churches as a whole, which are, as the world, under GOD's righteous judgment: "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" - 1 Pet 4:17  

[url=http://www.pimppreacher.com/[/color]]http://www.pimppreacher.com/[/url]

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." - Rev 18:4