₦airaland Forum

Patchesagain:
Augustus.

Do you wish to compare capabilities of the combat suite??

Age of upgrade is irrelevant - as we taught you when you bragged about "modern" radar on your F-7's (Which turned out to be ancient)

You already lost, the argument, you think FREMM is a destroyer, but it's a frigate. You know nothing about naval warfare, mumu

http://www.janes.com/article/49163/egypt-to-acquire-fremm-frigate
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Patchesagain:
And the La Fayette remains the newest FRIGATE in the French Navy as they deem the FREEM they have in service to be a DESTROYER

FREMM is technically a frigate by world expert ratings... http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fremm/
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Henry120:
Get ready for some more humble pie!

Open wide boy....... I want to feed you more humble pies.

His stomach is already bursting, he needs Andrews Liver salt.

Patchesagain:
Same combat suite that was around when the Valour Class was selected and built.

Same combat suite in operation with frances newest frigates and Carrier

If the 20 year old La Fayette is obsolete... what is the Aradu... allmost TWICE as old!!

The new french ship is FREMM not La Fayette http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fremm/

Aradu is a 1980 warship with 2001 refit new combat suite. Valour frigate has 1996 combat suite and 38 year old scrap-yard gun.

Aradu and Valour frigate struggle with same generation of combat suites. France is far ahead.

Stop this fooooooolish suiiiiicide argument, you lost !

Patchesagain:
Same combat suite that was around when the Valour Class was selected and built.

Same combat suite in operation with frances newest frigates and Carrier

Nope, your source says old La Fayette frigate, meaning same combat suite on a 20 year old obsolete French warship.

La Feyette has been relegated to back stage by new FREMM frigate, La Fayette is NOT the newest ship of France, it's the FREMM frigate you dummy !

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fremm/

Your own source led you into s.uicide mode on a happy weekend like this

Patchesagain:
My point exactly

SHOW US PROOF OF ARADU COMBAT SUITE REFIT!!

You and I have argued this last year and I proved it all, I updated it on wikipedia and showed my sources to EVERYBODY on this thread last year, Harpoon databases and Spanish navy ships website. I see no need for a repeat, "In 2001, another refit (with American assistance) was undertaken, and the ship returned to operation. The obsolete AWS 5 radar and PHS sonar were replaced with a Signaal STIR (I/J/K) 60 nm/120 km fire control (range, bearing, altitude), DA-08 90 nm/180 km air (search, track) as well as an Atlas EA80 20 nm/40 km passive anti-submarine sonar (bearing, class), in addition to these, all other systems including weapons were cleaned, overhauled and put in good working order."

Now you show us proof of new combat suite in Valour frigate, that you have removed the 20 year old navionics...show proof !
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Patchesagain:
Valour class was refit just now... 2015 capabilities

Valour frigate refit ? Did you change the whole combat suite ?

Show us proof !

Sources say you changed old engine, is diesel engine your combat suite ? Olodo Rabata
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Patchesagain:
Same combat suite is in operation in the French navy with their newest firgates, their flagship and the Saudi's newest warship.

So the french ripped themselves off as well?

Nope, that combat suite is on 20 year old French warships that existed almost a decade before Valour frigates, according to your own source.

FREMM frigate and Horizon are the new frontline warships of France.

Only South Africa got ripped off as usual.....plus a 38 year old main gun on your new warship, $300 million frigate
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Patchesagain:
Considering they entered service at that time, the age of their combat suites makes sense.

Unless you wish the designers to travel into the future, get technology, and then travel back in time to install it.

Argument is irrelevant, combat suite on the Aradu is 35 years old.

What is the radar cross section of the guns turret? I dont think you understand what stealth is

Combat suite of Aradu was changed in 2001 refit. Same level with Valour frigate
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jln115:
Just to let you know were talking about the Meko 200 and our argument was based on Algeria's Meko's

Anti Ship: 200km (SAAB RBS 15 MK3)
Anti Air : 60km (Umkhonto max range)
Gun : 120km (Otobreda 127/64)

Dude, learn to leave an argument when you are corrected, trying to argue makes your comments worse.

There is no Umkhonto 60 km range missile on any warship anywhere, it's the 12 km I have told you.

Then nobody has gun with 120 km range on a ship.

Just leave the matter and stop this nonsense. No offence.

Patchesagain:
Nigeria has no PGMS - so its low level assault for you too

Do you have the Maverick?

I did not say Nigeria, I said Alpha jet as a platform in general
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Patchesagain:
The class’ combat management system (CMS), apparently accounts for about 40 percent of each ship's cost) was provided by Thales Detexis at a total cost of R2.599 billion. The Tavitac system is also fitted to the French La Fayette-class frigate and versions are aboard the Saudi F3000 air defence frigates and the nuclear aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6524:fact-file-valour-class-small-guided-missile-frigates-&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

Same combat suite.

You said it is defective.

If this is so, then so is the combat suite of 5 practically brand new French Frigates and their Nuclear Powered Carrier and Flagship

Obviously, it is not defective or else they would not use it.

Bwahahahaha

This Patches is a complete ZERO brain !

La Fayette is a 20 year old French frigate, it was even built before the Valour frigate, you are comparing your Valour frigate with an older warship that no longer a lead ship of France. Fool

Valour frigate systems are 95% obsolete, 20 year old stuff, plus a 38 year old main gun !

FREMM frigate is the new ship of the French navy, why not compare your junk Valour frigate with a FREMM frigate, are you afraid ?
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Henry120:
[b]The said proposed architecture ("CS7 mod 1" made use of the CCII Systems's IMS, but in conjunction with the Tavitac CMS, thus requiring an alteration to the data-transfer protocols linking the CMS to the IMS.
200. These alterations would have involved :
200.1 incorporating a so-called Bridge Interface Unit;
200.2 incorporating a Dual Protocol Stack;
at additional cost to CCII Systems.
201. All the proposed alternative architectures, including "CS7 mod 1", deviated from :
201.1 the formally accepted combat suite baseline which was at that time embodied in the Combat Suite Functional Specification ("the Functional Specification" and Combat Suite System Design Document ("System Design Document"; and
201.2 the URS subsequently issued in December 1998 and revised in March 1999.
202. At the same design review meeting in August 1998, representatives of ADS (among others, Messrs D.N. Hiles, D.C. Law-Brown and K.C. O'Neill) sought to undermine CCII Systems's IMS by asserting that the IMS (and the architecture associated with it) entailed an unacceptable risk.
203. At a meeting of the technical committee held at Mount Edgecombe on 5 November 1998, ADS was directed by SAN and Armscor to generate and issue a technical description of the architecture "CS7 mod 1", explaining the proposed changes in the combat suite design, but this was never done.[/b]

Valour frigates carry 1990s generation combat suite and navionics, plus a 1977 gun that wrecks the stealth capability.

That ship is crap, real crap for $300 million each...fraud....rip off !
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Patchesagain:
France uses the same combat suite of as the Valour class on those vessels

The radar cross section of the gun is negligible

Show us technical specs of combat suites comparing 1999 Valour frigate with 2015 French destroyers. Fool !

Frances uses superior weapons, missiles, guns, torpedoes on French warships
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Patchesagain:
What maverick missiles?

How will you hit a target from that height? Why did the Argentinians have to attack at low level?

Argentina had no PGMs on their jets after using up their 5 Exocets.

The Argentines used unguided bombs to sink British warships, they lost jets, the British lost ships, in war, both sides lose.

Maverick missile is a guided air to surface missile with ~ 20 km range, Alpha jets use it, yes it will sink a Valour frigate from 9 km altitude
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Patchesagain:
ANd we have posted citations that show the combat suite on the Valour Class is the same as the French navies flagship and it's most modern frigates?

Big lie.

France does not use Umkhonto. France uses 180 km range Exocet. France does not use 1977 non-stealth guns on a stealth ship.

You think everybody is M0R0N like South Africans? Non-stealth gun on a stealth ship, LOL this is hilarious maaadness
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Patchesagain:
Last I checked the enemy can't shoot down the shells fired by a G6

Last I checked, the G-6 is not a direct fire weapon, it's an area ordnance, the precision effect is a wild game of chance.

Why did you compare Otomat range with Exocet range?

Answer my question.

Patchesagain:
Ufthe Tiger is better

Why did they buy the Valour class?

Why did they buy Russian missile and French missile?

Patchesagain:
How will an alpha jet engage a Valour Class from 8km up?

Maverick missiles or unguided munitions exploding overhead
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Patchesagain:
How many SAMs does the Valour class have in combat?

If the tiger is better - why did Algeria decide to buy the Valour class and not more Tigers?

Hahahahahhaha

Algeria wanted Russian and German ships. They buy east and west.

Tiger missile 40 km
Valour missile fvcking 15 km

Deal with it

Patchesagain:
Algeria chose Umkhonto for their flagship

Citation needed to prove what is Algeria's flagship
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Patchesagain:
Prove me wrong

Your list had zero citations, not welcome on this forum
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Patchesagain:
What is this BS!

You think it's just about range?

Clown

Is G-6 artillery not all about range when you boast of it?

Range is not important when South Africa is at a disadvantage, right?

You just said today that Nigerian Otomat has short range?

You need to enjoy defeat sometimes, it will make you maintain sanity
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Patchesagain:
He thinks a corvette is better than a frigate

Yes it is.

You think ships fight according to their names....Olodo
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jln115:
Stop making things up bro!!You asked me to provide a citation and I did, now its your turn to provide a citation.

My claims are from your own citations.

Tiger frigate missiles and gun

http://www.enemyforces.net/missiles/kh_35.htm

http://defenseupdates..ca/2013/02/third-project-20380-steregushchy-class.html

http://www.burevestnik.com/products_engl/a190.html

It's an unnecessary argument, The Tiger will sink the Valour from 130 km away and sh.oot down Gripen from 40 km away
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MikeCZAR:
Just like Aradu.

Unoperational and obsolete.

All four Balsam class supply ships of Nigeria are operational, they came into service between 2005 and 2010.

SAS Drakensberg is Obsolete, project hotel is looking to replace it, but no money.

Patchesagain:
Short range otomats - never been test fired, past their use-by date
Obsolete SAM's - never been test fired, past their use-by date
Unknown torpedos - doubt that they even exist
Obsolete combat suite - pathetic capabilities
Obsolete sensors - ancient hardware
Crew with ZERO training and ZERO experience
A navy with no training in full spectrum maritime warfare.

Citations needed for the above list of lies
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jln115:
Nope Sweden cancelled its SAM project altogether.
Bangladesh chose a Chinese Frigate above the one South Korea was offering which would've used the Umkhonto missile, thus they rejected the whole system offered by S Korea and not just the missile.

Valour vs Tiger


http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/east-european-navies-vessels-ships-equipment/russian-navy-vessels-ships-equipment/patrolsmall-fighting-ships/74-project-203802038220385-steregushchytigr-class-corvette--stealth-steregushchiy-soobrazitelnyy-boiky-sovershennyy-stoiky-provornyy-russian-navy-datasheet-pictures-photos-video-specifications.html

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6524:fact-file-valour-class-small-guided-missile-frigates-&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2014-news/december-2014-navy-naval-forces-maritime-industry-technology-security-global-news/2272-german-built-meko-a-200-an-frigate-for-algerian-navy-launched-by-tkms-in-kiel.html

Why did Indonesia drop Umkhonto? You ran away from that point? They chose an European missile. Bangladesh could have configured it on a Chinese ship if it was worth it, but no. Umhkonto range/ceiling is bad for the price.

Thanks for proving me right with your sources that Tiger frigate is better than Valour frigate:

Anti-ship missile-

Tiger, 130 km range
Valour 70 km range

Anti-aircraft missile-

Tiger 40 km range
Valour 15 km range

Gun-

Tiger 20 + km range
Valour 16 km range

Algeria is buying Umkhonto 15 km range, but they have Russian missile with 40 km range as their main naval air defence weapon.

No argument needed. Case Closed
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jln115:
Sweden rejected it due to budgetary constraints, a decision was taken in to delete the SAM requirement all together.

And the Valour class has double the range of the Tiger class, double the endurance, Much much better armed, should I go on?

Why go on with no proof? Citations for Tiger Vs Valour.

Sweden saw that the Umkhonto was not worth the price, they won't budget so much millions for a missile with 8km max ceiling.

Indonesia and Bangladesh dumped Umkhonot and bought Chinese/European missiles.

Tiger class frigates are superior to Valour frigates
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LeSudAfricaine:
you basically want me to say what you want to hear? Your music is not that good period! It might be popular in other countries on the continent but in SA, we're into our own house music

Yet ALL South Africans 'worship' Nigerian stars... http://thenet.ng/2015/02/photo-did-dbanj-receive-head-on-stage-in-south-africa/

The above photo is too much to post, so let me stop with the weblink so that Mandela will not weep in his grave

jln115:
If it was so sh1t, why did Algeria choose it for their Flagship surface combatant? Also Brazil is also evaluating it.

Meko frigate is NOT flagship of Algeria, they have superior Russian Tiger frigates.

Algeria just bought it to diversify weapons purchases as usual.

Brazil is just evaluating not buying, they are fooling you for the sake of friendship, they avoided Rooivalk and bought Hind E like Nigeria.

If Umkhonto's not shiiit, why did Sweden reject it?
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LeSudAfricaine:
That's an exaggeration in your part sir

That's ignorance on your part sir