₦airaland Forum

Patchesagain:
No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

SANDF datalinks do not work full spectrum, NOT all equipment is integrated, the plan was to do it stage by stage.

Also, in Sub-Saharan Africa, only Nigeria has been proved to use operational datalink that works 24/7
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jln115:
dude you didnt even know there were guided shells, you even brought the G6 into your argument to some how prove that navel guns cant even shoot further than 73km.

....because the argument was about unguided shells, and you quoted a wrong type of weapon, you brought a motorcycle into a bicycle argument, I wonder how you entered university with a brain that cannot debate withing context of a topic....you cannot even stay on a subject matter and debate it, you turn the whole arena into a confused mumbo jumbo mix up....33% Soweto brain.

I was the one who told you they were guided shells, you mixed oil with water in a clean argument....Fool

Thank me for letting you know that :

1. It is a guided shell
2. The range is max 100 km NOT 120 km
3. Debates are meant to be focused on a topic and it's context....basic secondary school education

Patchesagain:
Read my post
Understand my post
Then comment.

The day you dreaded has come: The defense review has been passed.

You mean we should dread paper reports? Is your paper defence review a weapon, a missile? Hilarious

I would rather dread an armed robber on the street of Cape Town than a paper review of SANDF decline
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lionel4power:
"Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding."

this are the most important points of the article.

Patchesagain:
Defence Reveiw is not about new weapons.

Okay, Nigerians have now interpreted the contents of South African Defence Review ansd educated you today, so you have now cancelled your story about buying tons and tons of new weapons from a paper review as if it is money, well done, mumu. Wishy-Washy 3rd class Southie educational background is an epidemic in your country
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MikeCZAR:
Shell!

Enables naval guns to reach further.

And yes naval guns touch targets 120km away!

jln115:
Hahaha dude it doesnt even matter if its 100 or 120km...The fact is you never knew there were navel shells that could reach these distances.

And you call yourself a military researcher!! Yet the biggest irony is the fact that you do no research whatsoever.

Bwahahaha, there is NO 120 km naval gun, manufacturer specs data sheet is final authority and says 100 km max.

You brought a guided shell that no country is using and no navy is using in this world, you brought a wrong munition into a debate,w e were talking about existing naval shells, the one you brought is NOT in use by any world navy, it's still experimental, and also, we were talking about unguided shells, yet you foolishly brought in a guided munition and mixed up analysis of unguided weapons with guided weapons, is y.our brain working ? No That's how you fail exams and score 33 % in South Africa, and remain 2nd bottom brains of the world, you cannot even debate and stay withing context of a topic, you went quoting data of a motorcycle in an argument about bicycles....Mumu

Did you ever know your comment was a guided shell? No, you just copy and pasted whatever you find on internet, I am the one who educated you that you have brought a motorcycle into a debate about bicycles... Odenson

Still, your source of 120 km is wrong, I exposed you Southies to the correct range of 100 km from the manufacturer's technical specification data sheet, any other source is inferior to mine.

You see the difference between a military researcher and you + your mumu South African team on Nairaland ? Yes you see the difference

" Technical Specifications:
Amuunition Configuration
Guided Long range (GLR)
Up to 100 km
Autonomous IMU+GPS Guidance
Precise Shore Bombardment firing "


Source (Manufacturers's website) :http://www.otomelara.it/documents/1287567/3805766/body_VULCANO_127mm_REV2013.pdf

Range is 100 km, shell does not exist in any navy, it's experiemental, and it's not a normal shell, it's a guided munition.

Now say thank you to Nigerian education, we give you for free, because it's beyond your reach

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MikeCZAR:
120km range!

A guided shell is not a rocket or missile albeit it has rocket motor.

It's a hybrid, it has a rocket and guidance systems, it's a PGM and it's range is NOT relevant to a discussion about standard shell gun ranges. Learn to argue within context.

We are talking about naval guns standard shell, not PGMs....fool

Meanwhile, manufacturers technical data says maximum range for the guided version is 100 km NOT 120 km.

Learn to use reliable sources, not websites like the one that says South Africa has super rapid gun when your navy says big NO !

Odenson

jln115:
Jap shot out of the 127/54, when fired out of the 127/64 it has a range of 120km

Manufacturer says 100 km maximum. Any other source must bow down to manufacturers technical specifications as final authority.

Show me 120 km from the technical specs as declared by the product manufacturer!
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jln115:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_5-64_LW.htm

"System design requirements include a maximum effective range of 70 km. for the unguided munition, 100 km. for guided munitions fired from the 54-caliber gun, and 120 km for guided munitions fired from the 64-caliber gun. Accuracy is said to be better than 20 meters; payload performance is designed to deliver 100 kg. (220 lb.)/min. over a 1-hr. sustained period, 200 kg./min. over a 3-min. period and 300 kg./min. over a 10-sec. salvo."

Manufacturer's technical specifications data sheet says maximum range is 100 km.

http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

Final authority is product manufacturer.

CASE CLOSED!
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MikeCZAR:
Didn't this man say no naval gun can reach 120km?

Did you read your source?

My point proved: Naval guns can reach a range of 120km.


Welcome back to class my student!

120 km ? Nope.

It's maximum 100 km and NOT a normal shell, it's. A guided shell/missile/rocket.

No naval gun range can reach 120 km, I am right, you are wrong.

Max range for Volcano guided shell is 100 km.

Welcome back to Monday classroom my dull Soweto student
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Patchesagain:
[size=16pt]THE DEFENSE REVIEW HAS BEEN PASSED BY PARLIAMENT!!!

To quote Churchill: Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.


Pic: Nigerian Teasr[/size]

Withdraw ‘uncosted’ Defence Review, DA urges
BY WYNDHAM HARTLEY, 05 JUNE 2015, 07:04


National Assembly delays revitalisation of defence force, says minister
Defence department mulls riot squad
A crisis too big to contemplate
DA says defence committee ‘failing in duty’ to hold minister to account
In this article
Companies and organisations: Inkatha Freedom Party | Freedom Front Plus | Democratic Alliance
People: Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula


[size=13pt]
LAST year’s Defence Review, which concluded that the South African National Defence Force was in decline and would take years to reverse, should be withdrawn because it had not been costed, Democratic Alliance (DA) MP David Maynier said on Thursday.[/size]

Speaking in the National Assembly during a debate on the Defence Review, Mr Maynier also accused the joint standing committee on defence of failing to give the review report the attention it deserved, holding only a handful of meetings in almost a year.

The review came to the conclusion that the military was in a critical state of decline and lacked core capabilities.

Committee chairman Stanley Motimele introduced the report on Thursday and called for its approval.

Mr Maynier said: "We have a constitutional responsibility to consider the financial implications of policy documents in Parliament.

"We propose the minister (Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula) withdraws the Defence Review from Parliament, and within a period of not more than six months commissions an independent audit of the cost estimates used in the review."

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding.

Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

The National Assembly approved the report on the Defence Review

[size=16pt]Paper Approval Of A Report That Has No Costs...No Money Attached....Only Paper Text[/size]
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MikeCZAR:
Oh I made a mistake!

Otobreda 127/64 not 127/62. Production begun in 2012.

And no it is different way different! They're not similar. Aradu uses the 127/54 Compact.

I know you're not knowledgeable about guns last time you told us there's something called "total calibre fire power".


Now learn a bit here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-unZOJEZjC4&itct=CDsQpDAYACITCIKbxrqZ_sUCFdGpHAod3-cAg1IPT3RvYnJlZGEgMTI3LzY0&client=mv-google&gl=ZA&hl=en

What best served hot? HUMBLE PIE!

Foooool

You have sh0t MikeCZAR in the skulll Suicide mode !

NNS Aradu uses 127mm/54 gun and it uses Vulcano shell with 120 km range, same as the 127mm/64 gun.

"VULCANO 127mm ammunition is conceived to give the 127/54 C and the 127/64 LW OTO Melara Naval Guns the capability to meet any present and future requirement for Precision Naval Fire Support and Long Range engagement of Surface Targets."

http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

So NNS Aradu has gun range of 120 km ....PROVED !

MikeCZAR eats his own humble pie and then c0mmits Suiciide on a Sunday
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jln115:
You said NO naval gun can shoot 120 km... Only after I told you to go read my source again, did you modify your post.

Yes, because in your own post you were quoting range of guided shell in an argument involving unguided shell.

You created the confusion, I cleared it for you.

In an exam, if you go off topic and out of context ....you fail !

I educated you, because you did not know the difference between guided and unguided shell.

Say thank you to me for the fresh and free Nigerian education you always benefit from, say thank you now...
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lionel4power:
Nigerian president jets out for G7.

www.ngrguardiannews.com/2015/06/photos-buhari-jets-out-to-germany-for-g7-summit/


was Jacob zuma invited

No !!

He is not in our league

They will soon begin to envy Buhari same way they envied Jonathan in Pretoria

MikeCZAR:
1. Name: OtoBreda. 127/62



A. Effective firing range: 30,000 metres.

B. Maximum firing range: 120 kilometres.

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_127/64


2. Name: AGS.

A. Range: 120km+

Source: http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_020037/advanced-gun-system-ags?_afrLoop=1958488203289000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null



Destroyed!!!!!!!!!!! He's now shifting goal posts! Mentioning guided shells MOR.ON

Bwahahahaha NNS Aradu has similar 127 mm gun with 120 km range you MikeZAR Dundee Domingo !!!!!!

Nobody in Africa has guided shells, when we talk about shells on this forum, it's standard that we ONLY quote range for unguided shells.

Nigerian NNS Aradu has similar gun 127 mm Oto Melara gun with 120 km range.


http://www.otomelara.it/products-services/guided-ammunition/vulcano-127mm

http://archive.is/qUExe

Have you seen me claim 120 km range for NNS Aradu on this forum ?

Only a m0ron from South Africa will quote ammunition that does not exist in an African country as their weapons range.

All you Southies are mugus & magas who don't know how to write within CONTEXT, you always need Nigerians to educate you all

# SOUTHIE WRECKED ON A SUNDAY...BEYOND REPAIR...TECHNICALLY WRITTEN-OFF
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MikeCZAR:
Look at this mor.on.

Comparing naval guns with howitzers! ;DD

This is the same emb.ecile who accused people of having inferior naval warfare knowledge.

Range: 120km+

Show me source of a naval gun with 120 km range with unguided shell.

Mumu domingo

Patchesagain:
Signaal STIR (platform dates back to at least 1988)
https://books.google.co/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=Signaal+STIR&source=bl&ots=hJUtOV1-f1&sig=ZXL1nIshZ4Jt2lUFHWx2VVLiUJg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BjN0VeGxGs2B8gW1m4PYAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Signaal%20STIR&f=false

DA-08 (platform dates back to at least 1983)
http://www.helis.com/database/sys/290/

Conclusion: Combat suite in aradu is composed of hardware that is 30 years old.

Nope, according to your own source, there are different versions and generations of of STIR radars

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/netherlands/defence/stir-tracking-and-illumination-radar

Dutch, British, Canadian, etc including 2002 versions, then the American version which your own source says is very different and does not tell us the date of introduction. Nigeria got the STIR radar with American input, and it's NOT the 1988 version you mentioned, that was used by Argentina.

Your own source ruined your argument.

Aradu STIR radar was installed by America not same as Argentina's version your claim of 30 years is wrecked by your own source
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MikeCZAR:
His crying!! But I won't stop force feeding him humble pie.


1. A-Darter: Ordered.

A. Denel Dynamics has received a production contract for the A-Darter fifth-generation air-to-air missile from Armscor, which covers the production of missiles for the South African Air Force over the next five years.

Source: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-38741/



2. Badger IFV: Ordered

A. DLS was finally awarded a contract for 238 Badger IFVs and variants for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF).


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43336/badger-nears-production-aad142

3. Skyshield upgrades: Completion 2017.

A. Rheinmetall Air Defence of Switzerland is upgrading part of the South African National Defence Force’s (SANDF) twin 35mm Oerlikon GDF-005 towed anti-aircraft guns (AAG) to the latest GDF-007 standard.

Conclusion: If complexion is extended it will due to the supply company not end user and money.


Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43318/south-africa-to-get-upgraded-gdf-weapons-aad142

4. DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo!

5. What is "merlin"? That's because it is still in a technology demonstration phase.

Conclusion: After A-Darter completion, Brazil will join!

6. OPVs: Submission will close soon, then will know the contenders.

1. A-Darter still not in service, and contract is for a 5 year period, so NO DATE as to when it will enter service, 5 years is 2015 to 2020.

Still no proof of payment, no amount of money mentioned, contract on paper, no money involved.

Same way SANDF signed contract for 238 Badgers and got 5 units in 15 years

Every other thing remains as I said :

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 238 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !

Patchesagain:
It is difficult to remain calm.

That's why Henry says you are just being emotional

Henry120:
Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

Bwhahahaha, that Mr. Young has finished t.hem o ! Everything South African is over-rated and over-estimated....over-hyped.

Only God knows how many people were bribed to do that deal for the purchase of obsolete stuff Valour frigates for SAN, they can bribe anybody including FIFA.....they just destroyed the good image of world football with their ANC government's super efficient international bribery machinery, well oiled high efficiency machinery, even professional scammers across the world will now fear South African fraud projection capability across all continents
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jln115:
With Vulcano rounds the Oto Melara has a max range of 120km with guided projectiles.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_5-64_LW.htm

The Umkhoto R can easily be converted from Umkhonto IR standard.

Ohh and learn to leave an argument when your corrected.

You are talking about guided shells dude, not standard that every navy has.

95% of world navies do not have guided shells.

You need to prove Algeria has guided shells for that 120 km range.

Even the old guns on SAN Valour frigate can fire guided shells to 40 km, a 1977 gun with 1968 origin.

There is no standard shell 120 km range in your source, it says NOTHING like that.

Have you ever seen anybody on this forum talk about a ship with gun range of 120 km ? Even G-6 artillery that has world record is only 73 km range.

You are a white-man with a Zulu brain
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MikeCZAR:
FIXED!

[size=16pt]Stop editing my comments to change my contents, write your own argument and don't edit what I wrote, stop inserting your own opinions and comments under my own name/moniker.

Write your own garbage and attach your own name to it
. [/size]

1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years grin grin

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
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MikeCZAR:
Snail speed?

1. A-Darter: Ordered

Conclusion. Paid for and Denel will be delivering the missiles.

2. Badger IFV: Productionm

Conclusion: In production for the army next year of late this year deliveries will commencem

3. Skyshield: Production.

Conclusion: Deliveries will end in 2017.

4. Heavy torpedo: Budgeted for.

Conclusion: Expect a contract very soon to a certain Germany company.

5. BVRAAM(Marlin): Development.

Conclusion: Brazil willing to join the development. Expect a contract when deliveries of the A-Darter commence in Brazil.

6. OPV: In tender.

Conclusion: The process for the companies to submit their proposals will soon be closed.



The only snail speed we are witnessing is the momentum of the mission against BH, since mercinaries left you with fat pockets.

1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

Patchesagain:
So when I said the French Frigates from the same eara have the same system, it was garbage?

No, its a fact

So when I said the French Nuclear Aircraft carrier has the same system, it was garabage?

No, its a fact

So when I said that the Suadi's brand new Frigate operates the same system, it was grabage?

No, it was a fact

And again, the class of a vessel is determined by the navies who operate it... just like Argentina calls their MEKO a destroyer (and you call aradu a frigate), just like Japan calls their carrier a "destroyer", just like Russia calls their carrier a "cruiser", and just like ROKN calls their cruiser a "destroyer".

Long story. You were just doing copy and paste on internet.

You know nothing about sea warfare. Please Sharaaaap !

MikeCZAR:
In your dream land: The SANDF is buying new heavy torpedoes, OPVs, Badgers IFVs, A-Darter SRAAMs, Ambulances, Skyshield air defence system etc with YUM?

Or funding development of BVRAAM with YUM?

And many technology demonstrators!

Lies Lies Lies....all those projects are grounded or moving at snail speed
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Patchesagain:
How does the classing of a FREMM have anything to do with the argument?

It means you don't know difference between frigate and destroyer, so ALL your talk about combat suite is garbage
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MikeCZAR:
The Valour class frigates will be upgraded. There's already a project in place.

You have no money

Patchesagain:
When did the french replace it?

Citation needed!

You have not posted citation to prove FREMM is a destroyer.

2007, La Fayette was replaced in frontline role by FREMM
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Patchesagain:
Why are you so desperate to derail the argument with irrelevant topics?

I love how you surrender when defeated

Patchesagain:
French frigates introduced when the valour class was chosen use the same combat suite

It's actually the other way round, French La Fayette frigate was in service 1996, the Valour frigate entered service in 2003, you actually copied their old combat suite which they have now replaced with a modern system, buy you cannot afford anything new
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Patchesagain:
French deem it to be a Destroyer

Citation needed....like this one http://en.dcnsgroup.com/news/dcns-over-50-combat-system-trials-performed-on-the-fremm-normandie/

Fool of Gauteng, post citation to beat the French manufacturer specs I posted...post it now !
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texanomaly:
So you are saying that a woman who cheats is a wh.ore. A man who cheats is just the way it is?


That is the point I'm making here. They are both whoring adulterers. In my not so humble opinion.

Both are committing adultery, but society will easily turn a blind eye to the man and open eye to the woman for stigmatization.

You go try it when you are married, commit adultery and let your husband know you did it because it's just sex, go try am na
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Patchesagain:
French navy deems it to be a destroyer

The French manufacturer that built the ship says FREMM is a frigate you dumbazz domingo !

http://en.dcnsgroup.com/news/dcns-over-50-combat-system-trials-performed-on-the-fremm-normandie/

ALL your arguments about combat suite is hereby de..molished , you know nothing about sea warfare
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