₦airaland Forum

patches689:
because after establishing such a firm base in Nigeria they are expanding their borders

Firm base? LOL, when Nigerian T-72 has been eating up all their T-55 and shilka AAA....Boko Haram is running away to Cameroon, and the Cameroonians have just realized it now...

[size=13pt]http://www.vanguardngr.com/2015/01/cameroon-recruits-20000-fight-boko-haram/
.[/size]

patches689:
no - you only have 5 until you can prove you have more.

The BTR-4 has modern electronics and is rated one of the world's best today in terms of modernization.

1. Show us where it says that
2. Tell us what it has: what systems, what electronics, what stabilization.

It has nothing, it is threadbare and barren as an old VW beetle.

Nope. Those windows will be covered in combat - when bullets are flying, you wont have time to hop in and out to keep opening and closing the hatches. Driver does not need situational awareness, he just needs to see infront of him, the commander is the one who needs to know what is going on.

Your gibberish about RPG's is so nonsensical that it isnt even worth a serious response. I ask you two question's: What is cover? What is concealment?

Finally, please, outline these magical 360 degree sensors you have on the BTR. Where are they? What are they? What systems does it have?

Reminder, Badger is:

- better armed
- longer ranged
- superior crew capacity
- better armored
- better optics and systems
- better comms
- better mine protection
- more modern (2006 BTR v 2015 Badger)

The BTR-4 specs and interior technology has been posted here twice, I will repeat it the third time, all details and graphic images in the video below, Butt Hurt Southie....cry with envy

#SANDF has NO SINGLE Badger IFV in service until year 2020



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-UurX9Tzls


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Henry120:
First of, the SANDF does not have any patriaa IFV's in actual service.

We've only seen 2 Patria IFV's for evaluation purposes. This cleared.

The Terminator is termed as an IFV. It is currently the world's most advanced IFV. You know, I really do not want to begin 2015 by asking you to seek further psychiatric help.


The VBCI has proved in actual combat that it is a very reliable IFV, it showed it's class in afghanistan and further more in mali. It is clearly and all round better IFV than the patria which you don't actually have.


The Bradley is better, puma and Namer are all better IFV's than the patria. The ZBD-08 is another good one which out-classes the patria.

The BTR-4E better speed,
better maneuverability,
better situational awareness,
better all terrain capability, including off-road capabilities,
Better targeting, a better gun,
It is combat tested and fully amphibious.

On the other hand, The Patria is a sub-par, inferior IFV that smokes like a tank.

[size=16pt]10/10 post ![/size]
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patches689:
5 Badgers are allready in service, 16 to be delivered before production begins, 236 to be built in South Africa starting this year
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/denel-patria-building-south-africas-next-ifv-03317/


We have as many badger as you do BTR

Nope, your source proves that SANDF has NO SINGLE Badger in service, and that the project has become a boring dream since year 2005, you keep cancelling date for delivery and now it will be year 2020

#Show Us Badger IFV In SANDF Armoury/Service
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patches689:
[citation needed]

And if you do provide a citation, show us the Nigerian BTR mortar version in service

We are comparing version options of Badger, Patria, BTR-4 in general. I didn't say we bought morta version, but yes it exists for sure among BTR-4 options.

Nigeria has at least 30mm cannon BTR-4, South African army has NO SINGLE Badger IFV in army armoury, can you show me one? I just showed you a Nigerian army BTR-4 photo inside our army armoury above, so your SANDF has NO Badger
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patches689:
Badger has:

- superior armemant
- superior situational awareness (remember your windows are covered in combat)
- superior armor
- superior range
- superor crew capacity
- superior optics
- superior mine protection
- superior versitility
- and we will have them in superior numbers (236 v 5)

You have yet to prove anything about handling or cross-country performance.

And yes, badger can cross rivers - there are these things called bridges.

You said it is better, show us how.

I need sources to prove the long list of lies you wrote above.

The only truth there is that you confessed Badger is inferior to BTR-4 because Badger needs a heavy and long bridge to cross a river

SANDF has no SINGLE Badger IFV in service today, or can you prove it? Show me a Bagder in SANDF control, I am posting below a BTR-4 in Nigerian army control.

[size=16pt]SANDF has NO SINGLE Badger IFV in service toady, dream until year 2020
.[/size]

DieVluit:
Simple. Because a military is far more than planes. The only thing flawed about the rankings is that Nigeria is not ranked lower.

The globafirepower rankings is TOTALLY flawed, it ranks Condo DRC above Uganda that has SU-30 MK Flankers, 100 T-90 Tanks, 1000 Anti-tank missiles all latest versions of Russian weapons, Congo DRC needs a whole United Nations to help it secure the country from M23 rebels.

What kinda ranking is that?

South Africans are a nation of 50 million fools that cannot use their blocked brains to challenge a foolish source all because the source is posted on internet and can be quoted by weblink, foolish Southies !
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patches689:
clearly not

That map was drawn without proof of validity and before Shekau II was killed by the great Nigerian army.

Today, Boko Haram is shifting to Cameroon as Nigeria gets too hot with T-72 tanks and BTR-4 IFV !

Boko Haram in now leaving Nigeria and attacking dozens of towns and army bases in Cameroon, killing Cameroon's soldiers in dozens !

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/27/world/africa/cameroon-boko-haram-attack/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/29/392242/boko-haram-attacks-cameroon-villages/
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charlos14:
So what happens when a lucky hit disables your camera and 360 degree thermal imaging sensors? It is more old tech not to have a backup plan.

Thank you.

Don't even think lucky hit, a sniper can use a 2km range sniper rifle, anti-material rifle, or automatic grenade launcher to destroy that Badger camera as it is too exposed like the horn of a cow hanging on the top of the Badger just like that, sniper snipes it and Bagder goes blind, and no windows to back up visibility.

Bagder IFV is a bad design, I will score a cheap hit, don't even need any luck to sniper burst it's camera balls
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mzilakazi:
Badger has all the tech that patria has and has a better armour. Your BTR has a weak armour because of its amphibious feature.

Badger does NOT have the amphibious tech of the Patria.

BTR-4 has double armour version and it still maintains amphibious capability.

Badger is a dry land only IFV
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mzilakazi:
Badger is the world champion while BTR lacks behind with an old tech of windscreen.

No European country builds an IFV in year 2008 with old window tech, BTR-4 has sensors, TV, video screen for remote 360 degree view of the environment, windows are for drivers and only when he wants it, he can cover up the armoured glass with armoured steel window covers and use his computerized TV screen to drive or target enemies. You are just a foooooool locked up in soweto cage
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MikeCZAR:
Nigeria doesn't have an answer to SA mechanised infantry.

Reminder: The Badger IFV mortar variant is armed with the M6 long range mortar, targets can greeted up to 6km.

BTR-4 has mortar version that targets 7km range, so what?
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patches689:
you have fallen into my trap!!

You said it had superior situational awareness due to windows!!

But now you say that the windows are covered in combat!!

Badger has 360 day/night situation awareness... you do not! Your BTR crew will be peering through tiny slits with their naked eyes when in combat, while our crew will have complete awareness of everything around them in all weather conditions in day or night displayed on multiple screens inside the vehical!

BTR is trash. Carries less men, inferior armor, inferior troop carrying, inferior modularity, obsolete electronics, threadbare optics, inferior weapons systems. And you only have 5 of them!

Nobody knows how many BTR-4 Nigeria has, links from Ukraine suggest a whole battalion of about 42 units purchased.

The BTR-4 has modern electronics and is rated one of the world's best today in terms of modernization.

No trap dude, just superior thinking, BTR-4 will use different modes based on threat levels, in RPG zone it will cover the windows, in bullet zone it will use the glass armoured windows especially when in it's own frontline and attacking a distant enemy. Even if windows are open, cage will stop RPG.

What is an RPG to a BTR-4 ? You need to get close as RPG effective range is only about 200m while the BTR-4 has 360 degree target sensors and TV camera that will see the RPG carrier and engage it with 3,000m range gun....how does the 200m RPG man get close enough to fire and BTR-4 will not tear the man into bits and pieces with heavy cannon fire ?

You don't know how real life combat is fought and calculations made
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patches689:
Which version do you have? The one only protected against 7.62!! Ours is protected aginst 30mm!!

First badgers roll off the production line in just months... and we are building 230 for the first production run. How many BTR-4's do you have? How many are you getting?

Badger has superior situational awareness due to the 360 degree thermal imager on the turret - meaning that the commander can keep searching for new targets while the gunner engages others! Your commanders veiw-finder can only face what is being attacked, meaning target aquisition and engagement is slower, and that his situational awareness is poor. I have highlighted the 360 degree imager for you. [s][/s]

The badger also carries more men than your BTR

The badger has superior weapons, including the worlds most advanced 30mm, longest range 60mm mortar and one of the most lethal ATGM's in existance.

With regards to rivers:

1. Amphibious vehicals are at a disadvantage - they are lightly armored, and apart from Recon there is no advantage to amphibious abilities. Proven by the Americans who chose to up armor their bradleys and sacrifice its amphibious capabilities in doing so
2. What are bridges? Can they be laid? Can they be captured?

BTR-4 simply does not compare. Lightly armored, old systems, lack of technical innovation, no mine protection, smaller troop capacity and outranged by some 110km by the badger.

BTR-4 I have proved, has RPG resistant version with double armour and weighs about 27 tons instead of 17 tons on the other version.

You don't know what versions Nigeria has, because not all are caged, the lighter armour use cage, the heavier RPG resistant armour does not use cage, and Nigeria is showing both modes on the battlefield, photos posted all over internet.


[size=16pt]SANDF has NO SINGLE Bagder IFV inducted into service, you have 1980s era Ratel IFV as obsolete as a T-55 tank
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[/size]

patches689:
So, points I have raised RE: Superiority of the Badger

You raise no valid point, all your points were defeated with one bl.ow

Badger has nothing special, it's an obsolescent design built for dry land only combat terrain
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patches689:
Third, what will you do when enemy bullets (or an RPG) flys through the HUGE FREAKING WINDOWS on your BTR and tares up everyone in the crew compartment. Hell, even the Ratel has armored covers which are placed over the windows in combat (trap set)

Either way, its superior to the BTR

Bwahahaha

Fool, you trapped yourself !

BTR-4 is a modern design IFV and the windows have armoured bullet glass, and armoured steel covers that are closed in risky combat zone in case of RPG threat, Badger design is too old and obsolete for such advanced technology.

BTR-4 is the king of Africa and Nigeria is the Giant of Africa, we own you !

PHOTO : BTR-4 HAS ARMOURED STEEL WINDOW COVERS FOR GLASS WINDSHIELD PROTECTION
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patches689:
First, the Ratel is superior to 99% of your arsenal.

Second, we are building the most advanced IFV medium in Africa (if not the world)

Third, why cant you prove it? You keep saying the BTR is better, why cant you tell us why?

Are you blind? I just proved it twice.

BTR-4 has better speed, better road balance/stability and maneuverability, better drivers situation view and awareness, better all terrain capability as it is fully amphibious.

Badger is a local IFV for homeland defence alone on dry land, Badger CANNOT cross a river to go into combat zone
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patches689:
3 Operational Badgers > 5 BTR-4's

South Africa wins again

Bagder is NOT inducted into SANDF service, show me where your army is using it or stocked in arsenal, show me

You have 2 factory evaluation Badgers for testing only
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mzilakazi:
Badger is the world champion while BTR lacks behind with an old tech of windscreen.

Mumu, BTR-4 is state of the art with sophisticated sensors, Tv, and video streaming 360 degrees view without opening turret.

The Badger driver has a window to see the outside and drive, nobody drives armoured vehicles without any windows, the Tv and sensors are for target acquisition, the driver still needs to see through the small Badger window to drive around, the window is there in front of the Bader IFV just so very small like a 30 degree view and gives driver a much less driving view than BTR-4 driver's armoured windows with 180 degree view.

Fools, ya gonna get a badly designed Badger IFV in year 2020.....by then the design will be completely obsolete
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Patchesagain:
you say te btr is better? Show us how.

I just showed you above, see my post and photo.

Butt hurt, SANDF fvcks around town with 1980s era old generation out-dated and obsolete Ratel IFV ugly piece of scrap metal junk
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patches689:
Bagders enter service next year, and multiple units are currently in use by the SANDF

BTR-4 is a BTR-3 with a new engine, and is not at all impressive

The BTR-4 and Patria are the same speed

Patria has better and more advanced armor (yours can only stop 7.62)

How does the BTR-4 beat the Patria in "amphibious ability"?

There is NO single Badger IFV in SANDF service, only 2 units for factory evaluation, NOT combat, NOT army arsenal.

Patria speed is 100km/h, BTR-4 is 110 km/h speed.

Patria battle field situation awareness is poor, no armoured windows and screens to back up the interior video monitor like the BTR-4 has both.

There are two different armour options for BTR-4 one with basic bullet protection, the other with ADDITIONAL protection against RPG.

"Weight of the vehicle version:
Basic protection
17.5tons
With additional protection
25tons
Crew commander, gunner, driver
Troops 7-9
(Depending on the type of the fighting module)"

SOURCE : http://tanknutdave.com/the-ukrainian-btr-4-apc-family/


SANDF is NOT buying Patria IFV, you are buying the Badger IFV a dry land only version with ZERO amphibious capability.

Your unlucky Badger will retreat back home when it faces river Zambezi in a hot battle chase and needs to swim cross, your expensive weak Badger will sink to river bottom and die there in water

Nigerian BTR-4 IFV will swim across rivers to launch attack or form defence, Nigeria wins !
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patches689:
First Badgers roll off the factory floor next year - not 2017. Liar

You have no BTR-4's

Butt hurt Southie Envy will run you maaaaaad

Nigeria has BTR-4 on battlefield today and photos are all over internet, see more below a Nigerian soldier posing to hurt your feelings

Photo Copyright is the world respected Beegeagle

SANDF has NO Badger IFV in service, and date of production has been cancelled many times from 2014, to 2015, now to 2017....dreams only

No money for SANDF = No Badger IFV for SANDF = South Africa is broke

See Nigeria advancing beyond South Africa with Africa's best IFV.....BTR-4 !
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NaijaPikinGidi:
Don't go chasing waterfalls! COIN war new to NA ... hence the initial challenges in dealing with these hit and run scoundrels here in the NE. Close to two years in the game ... experience guides our tactical response! What is ingenuity and cunningness without the presence of mind to rely on past experience! Calm down!

When you see real fight you go run!

True, war experience is vital especially in COIN which is called ASYMMETRIC WARFARE as it follows no rules, no pattern, no predictable tactics, the enemy can do anything and appear anywhere, he has no visible base, no uniform ID, no textbook methods, he can do what you least expect and does not follow the international laws of war.

Terrorists can wear a country's army uniform and deceive civilians and confuse soldiers, before you know it, death is at the door !

The hardest war is COIN, experience is the best teacher, every insurgent group is different and unique in doctrine and tactics
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patches689:
The Taliban does not enjoy the same freedom or success that BH does

Last I checked, the NATO forces have never been thrown into full retreat by Taliban!!

The entire super power force of over 20,000 NATO army, air force, marines and special forces are fast retreating from Taliban war after 11 years of failure in Afghanistan. American military Colonels and General have died there. Now the USA/NATO is running away. Nigeria is still fighting Boko Haram. SANDF has ZERO war experience in COIN and retreated forever from Bangui because of Seleka rebels
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patches689:
No this is an unbiased unprejudiced ranking - made by professionals

1. Egypt
2. Algeria
3. Ethiopia
4. South Africa
5. Nigeria
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-africa.asp

Nope, your source globalfirepower is ZERO professional, TOTALLY unprofessional.

They rank Congo DRC with a dead air force, above Uganda that has latest Russian Su-30 MK Flanker jets and 100 T-90 tanks with 1,000 ATGMs.

Sure, as a dumbo retaard South African, any source can fool you, even if it is written by a village firewood wood-cutter !
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[size=16pt]Nigerian Army Now Rules The IFV World Of Africa with our BTR-4 IFV ![/size]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-UurX9Tzls



Watch and compare SANDF Badger IFV smoke puffing engine, see how slow, unstable, weak and inferior in performance/technology


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VRk75lu1pE

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patches689:
First, that is the non-standard version with an anti-rpg cage

Second, the Patria has seen extensive combat in Afghanistan - one particular Patria survived no less than two RPG-7 rockets without sustaining any damage. And it was not equipped with slat armor (which can still be fitted)

Patrias which are more heavily armored (like ours) can survive up to 30mm armor piercing rounds
http://www.military-today.com/apc/patria_amv.htm

Your BTR-4 is only protected against 7.62 ball ammunition
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.htm

Further, the fact that our patria uses modular armor means that we can armor it as we need it. We can put light armor on it and stick it in planes or exploit its amphibious abilities, or we can stick heavy armor on it so it can survive a fight with anything smaller than a main battle tank

Your simple BTR-4 has limited modularity - meaning limited abilities to up armor it. Your only real option is slat armor which is only effective against older generation RPG's and not HMG's. Your BTR-4 also has ZERO IED/mine protection - unlike ours which has been extensively upgraded to counter just that risk. Not to mention that it has HUGE FREAKING WINDOWS which arent very effective at stopping bullets.

Not to mention that the weapons systems we designed for the badger are so effective that we have allready sold them to other nations - before the vehical has even entered service!!

South African army has NO single Badger IFV in combat service or army arsenal, it will come by year 2020....dreams so long

BTR-4 is a modern generation advanced IFV and one of the best in the world today. Nigerian BTR-4 beats the Badger on speed and amphibious capability. Badger is a dry land only IFV

There are several different versions of BTR-4 with different cannon from 20mm to 120mm and different armour from bullet resistant to RPG resistant armour tested and proven.

[size=13pt]http://tanknutdave.com/the-ukrainian-btr-4-apc-family/[/size]



https://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.jpg

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patches689:
Either way, its of no consequence, we have the best IFV in Africa (if not the world) and you have nothing that compares

South African Badger IFV is NOT yet in SANDF service, so you don't have it.

Soweto factory has 2 units of Badger IFV for evaluation and plant set up for production planning in 2017 to 2020.....still a dream

SANDF has old Ratel as your IFV 2014

Nigeria has BTR-4E today 2015, we had it since last year 2014, as I say always, NOBODY really knows all Nigerian weapons, secret only leaks out little by little. I posted last year September that Nigerian army has BTR-4 IFV but all you South African mumus and mugus called me a liar, now who is right? You or me? Me of course, all South Africans are always fools

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[size=16pt]Happy New Year 2015 To You All !

Be Closer To God This Year....Human Life Is Like A Vanishing Vapour[/size]
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Egyptian army is no longer the skinny ordinary men that fought Israel 40 years ago, Egypt today 2014 has an army like Sparta !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A79vulkrh6g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVaD0UypFAs

Egyptian army has changed physically and technologically since 1970s, in physical strength, only Algeria and Nigeria can match Egyptian soldiers in Africa, no other country has that level of soldier stamina and physical combat skills

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MikeCZAR:
South Africa can smash all African states.

Training is more important than combat experience

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Papa Ajacso

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EVarn:
indeed.but i doubt that egypt can ever effectively surround algeria,since they'd have to confront algeria on the mediterrenean sea;and we all know who and who govern that turf.as we know,algeria has the most sophisticated naval force in africa.

In war, surrounding your enemy is not really surrounding his country, your target is his military force.

All Egypt has to do is to surround every battalion, brigade, division/corp of Algerian forces that they meet on land, sea and air.

1.5 million soldiers, 30,000 tanks/IFV/LAV/missiles/ICBMs/artillery, 250 F-16 jets, 50 Apache Helicopter gunships, 50 fast missile crafts/corvettes/frigates/submarines, Egypt can surround any African military force from any African country.

If Egypt wants war with me, I will ask for peace negotiations, why should I die before my time?
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