₦airaland Forum

MikeZA: Yes,including troop numbers and the overall defence force.

Meaning numbers have to be scaled down,as the need for 36 was for the war in Angola.

The ORIGINAL intention or should I say idea to produce 36 Rooivalks came from the needs of a country in war.

Jane's Defense, your beloved 'Lady Jane' master of defence information says the reason South Africa reduced Rooivalk dedicated undedicated attack helicopter purchase numbers down from 36 to 12 is due to lack of funds.

You've started twisting facts again, don't play us another Mokopa Soccer Game here o !
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Patchesagain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newly_industrialized_country

North Korea is heavily industrialized but not in the league of advanced countries.

You just said 3 times in 1 day on this forum that Wikipedia is not acceptable source proof of Nigeria's cluster bombs. So you now use same Wikipedia as source to 'prove' South Africa is an 'advanced' country?

Patchesagain: First source is Wikipedia - and is about as much good as some toilet paper with your writing on it

Mr.Patrick Mokopa !!!
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Patchesagain: Experience means nothing if you are well trained

Why do employers pay experienced workers more than those with no experience?
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Patchesagain: You can keep asking

And you will get the same answer

Its in service but not in use.

Simple as that.

And you accuse me of telling lies? Well then substantiate that statement.

The second Mokopa source said it was NEVER ORDERED so how did it enter service ?

#Self-Trap
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DieVluit: Bwahaha! show us where it says "OSHA is for nion members in the Carpenters and Allied Workers union". Thank you, ignorant American wannabe.

I'd be ashamed of Nigeria too, if I were you. I'd even be more ashamed of my ignorance of the law. Understandable given the lawlessness in your Nigeria.

OSHA is written by union members as a guide for America and a law for their members.

Common law statute and Doctrine if equity is a universal principle that prevents a union from binding non-union members with union rules.

Does Police operational rules bind me if I am effecting a citizens right to arrested a criminal and hand him over to the police?

Union trains it's own members and makes rules for them, they go to union schools called Trades & Skills. Ordinary people don't have union training and don't have union skills, most people in America climb roofs to do minor repairs at home. Many non-union contractors do non-goverment contracts and don't follow union safety rules at their own risk, al they must follow is government building structure measurments and formats.

OPEC rules don't bind non-members, SADC rules don't bind ECOWAS members. Union rules don't bind non-union members, you need union training to use a harness and it's called fall protection/fall arrest certificates and must be renewed by retraining every year depending on each American state, use a harness without training and crush your balls as harnesses pass around your male organ.

I am not using google search like you, al my comments off the top of my head because I live there and I have contarctor friends.

South Africa is NOT a developed country. Shuut Up and don't derail this thread. You don't know how unions work n advanced nations
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GreenandGold: Agububu once said to me there was a four hour difference between where I live and him.. I figured he lived somewhere in the Atlantic

[size=14pt] Why are you South Africans obsessed about where I live and where I work? That information won't equip your UNDEDICATED Rooivalk with Mokopa missiles [/size]

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GreenandGold: For all we know they would have used them in their ongoing campaign against BH. Since they don't use them they don't have them...

#ShowUsNAFClusterBombs

You can travel to North East zone and find out by staying under Alpha Jets releasing bombs so you can prove if it includes cluster bombs too....just write your Property Sharing Will before you go becasue you won't be alive to write the bombing story after you witnessed it
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Patchesagain: Your first source is wikipedia

You have no other source that states you have cluster munitions, apart from the second source that says you used them once... 17 years ago.

#ShowUsNAFClusterBombs

Your above comment admits I showed first source that says we have them and second source that says we used them.

Third source will have to say Mr.Patrick Mokopa got b.lown to 77 pieces by Nigerian cluster bombs....because that's the only thing remaining to do

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GreenandGold: Let's put a Nigerian tank against a Makopa and see if it survives.

The Nigerian tank will surely survive since the Mokopa exists only on internet
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Patchesagain: No less than R4 BILLION spent on training

Probably the single best formation in Africa at the moment

Certainly the single least experienced formation in Africa at the moment
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Mabhengu: SANDF IS GEARING UP FOR WAR....NIGERIA WE CUMING THE TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.....IF YALL ARE WISE THEN LEARN HOW DOES THE MILITARY WORKS

www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/09/26/gearing-for-war

SANDF should defeat Rhino Poachers in Kruger park first, then after that you go to Bangui for rematch with Seleka rebels. If you succeeded in getting your army's Gecko vehicles back and use it to carry the dead body of Warlords Harkouma and Djotodia to @THIZA's photography studio for Hollywood show on Nairaland, then come talk to us about what SANDF plans to do with African Islamic terrorists.

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chris365: yeah, we know. Nigeria is at war. terrorists killing the innocent. is SA?

who's shelling your neighborhood DieVut? SANDF? gangsters? there was a shelling right?

good ostrich you are. Bury it deeper

South African criminals will seen be launching rockets like Hamas in Gaza

Yawa dey gasi ooo !!!!
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DieVluit: Bwahaha! You live in America! Joke of the century! Why don't you show us pictures of Americans with their bamboo scaffolding and no harnesses without risking citations? You can't cause you really are in Nigeria.

By the way, you are also wrong on US law, but we knew that already

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10757

You just wasted your time, you know America only by google search, I know it by living there.

OSHA is only for union members in the Carpenters and Allied Workers union including Scaffolders, OSHA laws do NOT bind non-members, reason why non-union contractors and private people can climb roof top without harness at their own risk

Some people just depend on nets to catch them from a fall.

Patchesagain: You have no source that you have cluster bombs

Only that they were supposedly used once, in the 1990's

How long was that war?
How long have you been fighting BH?

And you used them only once?

You dont have them.

Show us a source that says you have them - you have none. You only had enough for one single usage (if you had them at all)

France apparently destroyed its stock of Belouga cluster bombs between 1996
and 2002. However, these weapons were sold to Argentina, Greece, India and Iraq, and
some likely remain in service today


Furthermore, the Belouga is designed for low level and low speed deployment

The Belouga (source ofthe name could come from the acronym, or a whale or caviar … comments welcomed) is
low drag and intended for high speed, low level delivery . The bomb has a small braking parachute to slow its speed and hold it horizontal prior to ejection of the sub-munitions.

http://www.ultracast.ca/products/BelcherBits/Aircraft/BB027/Belcher_BB27_Instructions.pdf

Finally, we can shoot your Belouga out of the sky

Conclusion: No you cant

Argue all you want Mr.Patrick Mokopa, I don't care, I have posted sources and it's enough proof.

NAF has cluster bombs, I did not say only Beluga type. No arms sales log records any country's cluster bombs. Every country can stock whatever clusters it wants. Nigeria has them, how many types is not revealed. Fact remains we have them

Nigeria is NOT France, my first source says Nigeria still HAS and HAS stockpiles of cluster bombs, and did not say only Beluga.

NAF Cluster Bomb is NOT SAAF Mokopa The Fake

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MikeZA: Because it is a project. A continuing one.

Not just simply introducing new hardware into the defence force.

As we speak the Gripen is undergoing OT&E.

South Africa now supplies components and soon armaments for the Gripen. This possible through the DIP.

One Gripen is stationed at the TDFC. You'll see SAAF integrating systems designed for the African battlefield.

patches689: Fact of the matter is that we have 18 pilots for the gripen. With another 52 Hawk pilots waiting for Gripen certification

You say only 6 are combat ready?

(South Africa has more Gripen pilots than nigeria has combat ready jet aircraft)

[size=14pt]
Wise men don't believe your usual lies....Mr.Patrick Mokopa [/size]

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patches689: The minister told parliament we have 18 Gripen pilots, so it's on the record.

If he was lying he could be arrested and charged

Fact of the matter is that we have 18 pilots for the gripen. With another 52 Hawk pilots waiting for Gripen certification

You say only 6 are combat ready? Post a source published after the Airforce Cheif clarified the situation before parliament and the Farlam inquiry

End of story

(South Africa has more Gripen pilots than nigeria has combat ready jet aircraft)

South African authorities back up the Minister claims, your SAAF chief is only doing damage control to a leaked defense secret.

"March 13/13: Fighters. Opposition Democratic Alliance MP David Maynier recently forced the ANC government to acknowledge that 12 of its 26 delivered JAS-39C/D fighters were in long term storage. In reality, the SAAF’s fighter problem is even worse than that. He sums up the situation this way:

"The sad facts of the Gripen system are as follows: 26 Gripen fighter jets were delivered; 10 or fewer are operational; 12 are in long-term storage; there are six qualified pilots; there are about 150 flying hours available to the entire squadron for 2013."

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/south-africa-military-maintenance-matters-010956/

#SouthAfrican Airforce Is A PaperTiger

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patches689: First, there is no actual proof from any well known source that Nigeria has ever used cluster munitions.

Second, Nigeria is not listed as having the BL755

Third, how will the alpha jet get the bomb close enough on target if it has no targeting system?

So you have no proof that nigeria has any cluster munitions at all?

Cluster bombs are NOT recorded by UN, IISS, or SIPRI, same way all unguided bombs sales are not recorded or reported in any arms log.

All the other countries on the list like Ethiopia and Eritrea, show me SIPRI record of their purchase of cluster bombs !

If Nigeria has no cluster bombs, then the whole world too does not have it. Simple.

I posted two sources that say Nigeria has cluster bombs, Wikepedia you refused to accept, and I gave you an authority that records combat use of cluster bombs around the world in modern times, and Nigeria is recorded to have it and use it. That is a source respectable and reliable, it is a British website and declares that Nigeria has British Beluga Cluster bombs.

There is NOTHING you can do about it, Nigeria has cluster bombs !

Be angry about the obituary and burial of your still-born dead Mokopa Missiles....Rooivalk is a toothless 'dedicated' attack helicopter


NAF Alpha Jets pilots have consistent 24 years of air to ground bombing experience all over West Africa in five different wars.

12 units of NAF Alpha jets flying at 12km altitude above sea leavel are all beyond reach of your 10km maximum altitude of Valour Frigate Umhkonto anti-aircraft missiles, so we cluster plaster your Navy in Gulf of Guinea with cluster bombs showering thousand of Bomblets pouring down like rain all over your navy, spread over your warships like a wide 10 km sq area blanket of death landingand e.xploding on your own ammunition on ship deck....Umkhonto missile vials, and Exocet missile launcher tubes until your own missiles begin to explode and b.low up your own warships in the Gulf of Guinea and sink all Valour ships to sea bottom....Welcome to the Lion's den, Nigeria rules there !!!

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One day I will graduate from camp Farauta...

Patchesagain: Third, prove Nigeria has cluster bombs

My pleasure....

ALL Valour Frigates will be sunk in one day by NAF Alpha Jets
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Patchesagain: Lol, first you said we only had 6 pilots... now you change your story? Pfft, low quality trolling on your part

We have 18 qualified Gripen pilots - Confirmed by the head of the Air-Force

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31821:saaf-says-gripens-being-rotated-not-stored&catid=111:sa-defence&Itemid=242

Disputed by head of defense ministry.

Why have 18 pilots for 26 Gripens? Shows you have a real shortage existing ! No smoke without fire !

Damage control by SAAF chief of staff after South African defense minister carelessly revealed the dangerous truth that SAAF has ONLY 6 combat operation qualified Gripen jet pilots.

Exposing this secret truth to the world now destroys the military deterrent principle for South Africa, you enemies now see a big loophole in your air defenses, a worried air force chief will quickly tell a lie to cover it up, so the man just multiplied 3 x 6 = 18 to improve the 'fake' deterrence image of SAAF.

Any pilot can take off and land a Gripen with basic Gripen training, but he may not be qualified for combat operation on a Gripen.

Dangerous air maneuvers and enemy engagement tactics are involved in air combat, not every trained pilot can be relied upon to do that, he has to be currently qualified to fly into air battles. That is where SAAF failed, you have only 6 pilots for combat on Gripen, the rest we see in photos are just flying take of and land

Angola or Uganda will crush South Africa with Su-30 Flanker jets ! Believe !

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Patchesagain: Makopa is intergrated

The Rooivalk can kill all known MBT's....

....by the pilot c.rashing the Rooivalk from air into the MBT on the street...(No Mokopa Missile)....

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Patchesagain: Whatever you say

8 pilots can take off and land, ONLY 6 Gripen pilots qualify for combat operation
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Henry120: NO, Janes defence corroborates the story.


Or all of a sudden, like the photos, IHS janes defence, shouldn't also be trusted?

One moment you say you need photos, the next, you claim photos aren't needed.

Again you claim janes is a trustworthy source, the next they can't be trusted.


The makopa missiles have never been in SANDF service, but you guys were all about the thread claiming you have them in service. So what has now happened?

[size=14pt]

Janes defense also says SANDF-SAAF needs 36 Rooivalks for their country and army's size, but only bought 12 because they had no money!

Also proves that many of the Rooivalk avionics are not made in South Africa, not only the engine, rotor, gun, rockets....most of Rooivalk parts were imported from Europe....Only the body-air frame and tyres are really South African....they cannot control the use and export of the Rooivalk, the Europeans dictate to them what they must not do...

"The original intention had been to build 36 Rooivalks for the SAAF, but that was cut to just 12 when defence funding was slashed after 1990. Despite good reviews from potential customers, no export orders emerged, largely because the SAAF had not taken the helicopter into full service due to funding shortfalls. A possible Turkish order was thwarted by a foreign supplier that refused to supply a critical component."

http://www.janes.com/article/36210/south-africa-s-defence-minister-calls-for-rooivalk-line-to-be-reopened[/size]

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Henry120: NO, Janes defence corroborates the story.


Or all of a sudden, like the photos, IHS janes defence, shouldn't also be trusted?

One moment you say you need photos, the next, you claim photos aren't needed.

Again you claim janes is a trustworthy source, the next they can't be trusted.


The makopa missiles have never been in SANDF service, but you guys were all about the thread claiming you have them in service. So what has now happened?

Only God knows how many lies these South Africans have told us here since 2012....huge frauds we will never find out all of them !

All the weaknesses we have been hearing are ALL true...

The 6 only combat qualified Gripen jet pilots.

The one only single submarine.

The two only Valour frigates.

The 39km range only G-6 and G-5 artillery.

Zimbabwe will roast South Africa in battle

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Patchesagain: Nope, outdated info

The Makopa has been integrated, but not purchased.

There is no need for it. If the need arises, they can be armed and operated with ease.

[size=14pt]Finally, South Africans admit they have NO SINGLE MOKOPA anti-tank missile

Rooivalk dedicated attack helicopter CANNOT attack enemy tanks

No wonder ! UN had to send Ukranian and Indian Mi-35 Hinds to lead the Rooivalk into combat in Congo DRC !

Now the real truth has come out oooooo !!!

.[/size]

MikeZA: You increased from one to two? That quick?

Meaning you really don't how many Badgers SA has.

The missile variant carries 4 missiles: 2 for each.

Badger IFV has 2 prototypes. The IFV is NOT yet in service with SANDF....proved and accepted by even @Andrewza.

Badger IFV does NOT exist in South African army armoury, we know that from your Army's official news website and Denel

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MikeZA: Now on subs.

Before releasing the gas into the sky,exhaust gases are sprayed with water or "other" method is used inside the snorkel to cool them.

Don't want me to totally prove who's the foo..l?

Yes prove it now !
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Patchesagain: Old website buddy

[size=16pt]

Bwahahaha

Janes Defence 2014 information confirms it...with a South African source !!!

"While the Rooivalk is now operational, it still lacks the 10,000 m-range Mokopa laser-guided missile expressly designed for it by Denel Dynamics because there is no funding to buy the weapon. The Mokopa, meanwhile, is being produced for an export order to arm shipboard helicopters."

http://www.janes.com/article/36210/south-africa-s-defence-minister-calls-for-rooivalk-line-to-be-reopened

South African air force has ZERO air to ground missiles.....

Also Rooivalk has ZERO anti-tank missiles....it has only one gun and dumb old school rocket pods.

World's 'Best' dedicated Attack helicopter CANNOT k.ill a tank !

Nigerian army T-84, T-72, Vickers will mass R.ape South African army till you bleed to death

.[/size]

MikeZA: show us please.


You can't provide pictorial evidence?

That equates your arguments to nothing but fantasy stories.

ALL the pictorial photo evidence of Mokopa anti-tank missiles you have been posting here for the past 3 years are FAKE !

Rooivalk helicopter has NO single Mokopa missile, South African air force has no single Mokopa anti-tank missile !

http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/weapons/53/mokopa-anti-armour-missile

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MikeZA: Your post contradicts its self. I'll deal with it this way.

From your quote: infrared signature, such as expelling pre-cooled exhaust gasses just above the waterline

Explanation: The key word(s) there is PRE-COOLED,meaning the frigates cool exhaust gases before releasing above the water.

How many days did the sub stay under water?

That pre-cooled is ONLY for stealth valour frigate you dummy, your submarine is NOT a stealth submarine....fool

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Patchesagain: It was deployed by Nigeria on a UN mission!!

How could you possibly say its a new "secret" thing when it has allready been deployed with the most transparent organization in the world!!

The wheeled APC in not identifiable in that pic, yes secret if not known on free internet. Secret as our Big Foot MRAP, nobody lists Nigeria as a user, yet we use it in battle. Secret kept from free internet that you love...
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Patchesagain: Valkiri has 36km range ((((((((BOOM)))))))))

APR-40 has 45km range ((((((BOOM BOOM BOOM)))))


Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1980 to 2013
Note: The ‘No. delivered/produced’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 28 September 2014


Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments


Romania
R: Nigeria (11) APR-40 122mm Self-propelled MRL (1991) 1991-1992 (11)

(4) M-82 130mm Towed gun 1991 1992 4 Second-hand


http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

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