₦airaland Forum

Patchesagain:
1. Egyptian armor was stuck on the OTHER SIDE of the Canal, ever heard of the "Trapped 3rd Army" - the road to Cairo was wide open and the Egyptian Army was in complete dissaray

By the end of the war, the Israelis had advanced to positions some 101 kilometres from Egypt's capital, Cairo, and occupied 1,600 square kilometres west of the Suez Canal.[225] They had also cut the Cairo-Suez road and encircled the bulk of Egypt's Third Army. The Israelis had also taken many prisoners after Egyptian soldiers, including many officers, began surrendering in masses towards the end of the war.[226] The Egyptians held a narrow strip on the east bank of the canal, occupying some 1,200 square kilometres of the Sinai.[226] One source estimated that the Egyptians had 70,000 men, 720 tanks and 994 artillery pieces on the east bank of the canal.[227] However, between 30,000 to 45,000 of them were now encircled by the Israelis.[228][229]

2. Isrealys had knocked out the SA-6's when they crossed the Canal

I reccommend that you read up on the history of that conflict because you quite obviously have no idea what you are talking about

When did Cuba use these tactics? Care to point it out?

Dude, again, how do you derive any satisfaction by making things up in an argument? Do you no longer care about actually being right and now are obsessed only with arguing itself?

Your citation has NO SOURCE WEBLINK....you wrote that story in your dreams?

Into the garbage bin it goes....no proof...wasted effort.
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mzilakazi:
A man on the wheel chair robbed Nigeria military of £1 million. You don't even need an able bodied man to rob Nigerian military, just only crippled will succeed.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35241447

That is official corruption NOT armed robbery you dunce !

Patchesagain:
Datalink is instant sharing of information over a network.


By definition it is faster

How many times faster? Simple question.

Patchesagain:
Isreal clearly won the last time they fought - considering that they Isrealy's ended up INVADING Egypt and were on the doorstep of Damascus

Yes, and Isrealy armament has improved as well... thats how it works

Egypt had a massive army, isreal was fighting on 3 fronts and they still humiliated Egypt and Syria and Iraq and Jordan.

Western Equipment/doctrine > Eastern Equipment/Doctrine

Israel won nothing in the last war, Egypt did not surrender, and there were Egyptian troops on Israeli territory too.
:
If Israel had advanced to Cairo, they would be cut off in flanks to rear maneuver by Egyptian army in a wide desert battlespace. The Egyptians will deny the Israeli advancing army the usual air support by moving mobile SA-6 SAM in-between the invading Israeli force and the nation of Israel, then Egyptian jets will massacre the cut off Israelis.

That is the tactics Cuba used to force South Africa to beg for peaceful negotiations in Angolan war, Cuba pincered SADF and cutting them off will mean death to all that SANDF regiments.

RooiBoi:
THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! THE WHOLE POINT ISS THAT INFORMATION GETS FROM POINT A TO POINT B FASTER!!! DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH INFORMATION GETS CLOGGED UP IN THE C&C DURING A WAR? WHEN A PATROL IS UNDER HEAVY FIRE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIRE SUPPORT IN 20 and 2 MINUTES IS?

Data link is NOT 10 times faster, UNLESS you prove to us that it does in 2 minutes what C2 will do in 20 minutes....PROVE IT.

mzilakazi:
Egypt with the total strength that is almost 3X that of Israel, lost almost every battle against Israel.

When did Israel defeat Egypt? Over about 50 years ago.....half a century. Egypt of today is not same as 50 years ago flying MiG-21 jets, they now fly high class Rafale jets.

Anyway, last time they fought, it was stalemate no winner.

Patchesagain:
There have only been 7 Gripen Crashes you liar.

65 JF-17 operational - less than 5 years



270 Gripen Operational - allmost 25 years

JF-17 has flown amost 10 years....1 crash

Gripen flown 25 years....11 crashes.

We know how Gripen jet crashes around the world like F-7 jet.

Gripen = F-7

Henry240:
buhahahahahahahahahaha.......... South-Africa's version of the DSS robbed by burglars!



A brazen robbery, possibly involving tens of millions of
rand, at the offices of the State Security Agency has raised
questions about the effectiveness of the organisation tasked
with keeping South Africans safe.
The robbery took place in the early hours of December 26,
but by Sunday [January 3] the agency was unable to say how
much had been stolen; why its Pretoria headquarters were
so insecure that a safe with cash could be broken into; and
the reason for it keeping cash on the premises.

www.african-defense.com/defense-news-2/robbery-at-south-africas-state-security-agency/

Bwahahahaha

My sides are in orbit....LOL....South African Intelligence Agency robbed by civilian criminals....at home in their own backyard....LOL....Cant stop laughing !
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Patchesagain:
The discussion is that the JF-17 is SLOW and thus is not a good INTERCEPTOR

Omg, are you an actual child?

You are the 40 year old Mörön of Nairaland.

Supersonic speed is ~ 1,240 km/h.....JF-17 speed is ~ 2,000 km/h....how is it slow, flying extra 750 km/h more than the basic supersonic jet speed ?

Gripen jet has poor altitude flying like a pigeon 2,000 feet less and under the eagle height of JF-17 Thunder

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Patchesagain:
1. LAV III has only got a 25mm auto cannon.

2. Answer the following question:
So the Freccia is obsolete?
So the Piranha V is obsolete?
So the Kodiak is obsolete?
So the Terrex is obsolete?
So the Boxer is obsolete?
So the Stryker is obsolete?
So the Pandur II is obsolete?
So the AV8 is obsolete?
So the VCBI is obsolete?
So the Ajax is obsolete?
So the CV90 is obsolete?
So the Puma is obsolete?
So the K21 is obsolete?

Some of the above listed vehicles are NOT IFVs, e.g. Stryker is an ACV not IFV you dundee domingo, stop comparing wrong type of vehicles.

LAV III carries standard 25mm cannon point weapon and 76mm grenade frag explosive launchers for area weapon. Puma carries cannon plus missiles. Bradley carries cannon plus missiles.

Any IFV that does less is obsolete in cmcept like the Badger, does not matter if 10 countries use obsolete IFV concept, all we are saying is that South Africa belongs to the obsolete club, Nigeria belongs to the advanced IFV users class....like USA and Russia.

BTR-4 is king of African IFVs, thanks to Nigeria
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Patchesagain:
No one is talking about missiles you autist!

O my god, this guy

Only a fool like you Southies will talk about jet vs jet combat without missiles. Are the jets flying for fun in an air olympics sports show? Fool of Gauteng !
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jln115:
Nope will just shoot it done with our A-Darter and continue to desimate your airforce.

LOL....A-Darter missile with tiny 19 km range

jln115:
Dude what are air superiority fighters used for? And what do they usually go up against....ohh yes they go up against other fighters, and if they are outnumbered or what ever other reason need to get away, they need anough speed to out run the other fighters!!

Yes, SAAF Gripen will need extra speed to try in vain to run away from NAF JF-17 Thunder PL-12 BVR missiles !
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jln115:
Dude what are air superiority fighters used for? And what do they usually go up against....ohh yes they go up against other fighters, and if they are outnumbered or what ever other reason need to get away, they need anough speed to out run the other fighters!!

I am the one that opened your eyes to jets running away at escape speed, you never knew that before, so say than you to me for the free education....Nigerians lecture South Africans for free, say thank you white boy...say it

jln115:
You need official SAAB data to challenge me.Gripen speed is 2470km/h

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/gripen/

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/world-air-force-military-equipment-aircraft-/west-europe-air-force-military-aircraft-planes-equipment/sweden-swedish-air-force-aircraft-military-equipment/sweden-swedish-air-force-fighter-combat-aircraft/148-gripen-jas-39-a-b-c-d-ng-sea-multirole-fighter-aircraft-technical-data-sheet-specifications-intelligence-description-information-identification-pictures-photos-images-video-sweden-swedish-air-force-defence-industry-technology.html

http://www.worldwide-military.com/Military%20Aircraft/EU%20Fighters/Saab_Gripen_EN.htm

Gripen speed is 2,200 km/h or mach 1.8

http://planes.axlegeeks.com/l/207/Saab-Gripen

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/jas39.htm

You need SAAB official data to challenge me.

snydergp1st:
More junk to crash by your 3 remaining F-7 pilots.

[size=14pt]

Gripen jet accident numbers....11 jets crashed

JF-17 jet accident numbers....1 jet crashed

No further comment needed
. [/size]

jln115:
Nope 2470km/h

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/gripen/

You need official Gripen SAAB data to challenge me. Gripen speed is 2,200 km/h

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67
[size=15pt]
JF-17 Thunder's PL-12 missile speed is mach 4.....5,000 km/h....no escape for Gripen jet ![/size]

https://forceindia.net/forceJuly2015images/Air-Marshal-Chopra-1.jpg

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jln115:
WTF!! How was this even part of the argument?? Please keep up!!

You thought jet speed if for air racing like Olympics. I just showed you that missiles wipe off the extra jet speed, so you can learn about real air to air combat, Nigerians are your teachers on nairaland
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jln115:
Gripen max speed is mach 2 or 2470 km/hh
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/gripen/

Gripen speed is mach 1.8 .....2,200 km/h

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67
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Patchesagain:
So the Freccia is obsolete?
So the Piranha V is obsolete?
So the Kodiak is obsolete?
So the Terrex is obsolete?
So the Boxer is obsolete?
So the Stryker is obsolete?
So the Pandur II is obsolete?
So the AV8 is obsolete?
So the VCBI is obsolete?
So the Ajax is obsolete?
So the CV90 is obsolete?
So the Puma is obsolete?
So the K21 is obsolete?

Notice a trend here?

America's two main IFVs are the Bradley and LAV III...over 10,000 units of both vehicles and the standard armament is 25mm cannon + ATGM + Grenade launcher.

That is the modern concept. Badger IFV is as obsolete as SANDF....Nigeria has the most modern IFV in Africa, BTR-4
.

Badger is obsolete.

jln115:
F22 is an airsuperiority fighter.....it HAS to be fast!!

No matter how fast, a missile will catch up with it and kill it. Speed wont save any jet from a modern missile, even PL-9 missile on F-7 jet has a missile speed of mach 3... that is 3,800 km/h !

PL-12 missile on JF-17 Thunder has speed of mach 4....about 5,000 km/h....no jet will speed up to escape that !

Extra speed is a waste of effort in modern air battles with super fast missiles attacking the jets.

FighterPilot:
Junk Fighter = Mach 1.6

Gripen = Mach 2.

Nope, Gripen max speed is mach 1.8 NOT mach 2 you liar ! http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67

JF-17 speed 2,000 km/h......mach 1.6

Gripen speed 2,200 km/h.....mach 1.8

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67
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Patchesagain:
What the fvck are you talking about?

When was the last time a modern jet got a cannon kill? The 1980's??


JF-17 will not defeat the A-Darter with countermeasures.

When was the last time 4th gen jets fought since year 2000 Badme war of East Africa?

Today, ECCM has advanced and missiles will be challenged by 2014 generation self protection suites on jets.

Gripen will NOT defeat PL-10 fifth generation missile with countermeasures
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FighterPilot:
My killer fighter makes mach 2 while your Junk Fighter makes mach 1.6. An interceptor which will never catch its peers. It must be called Sheppard because it will always be at the back.

Nope, Gripen max speed is mach 1.8 NOT mach 2 you liar ! http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=67

JF-17 speed 2,000 km/h

Gripen speed 2,200 km/h

Not much difference....and no pilot flies around at 2,000 km/hr unless he is trying to escape from the enemy, it will wear out the engine !
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Patchesagain:
For an interceptor, speed is important

Altitude is not important

Citation needed for your opinion.

When both jets neutralize each other's missiles with counter measures, gun battle starts. JF-17 beats Gripen in gun firepower.

In a gun fight, the JF-17 will fire on Gripen from above, the Gripen cannot climb up to the JF-17's superior altitude 2,000 feet higher than Gripen
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iblawi:
The only thing that matters is that an interceptor should move at supersonic speed which is less than 1,250km/h
Or 342m/s and JF-17 moves at over 2000km/h what else do you want?

They want us to remain with F-7 jet for ever so they can be happy

Patchesagain:
F22 is twin engine, you mongol

Who cares? We are talking about speed not engine numbers.

jln115:
The F35 doesn't need to be fast, it has stealth!!

That is a big lie !

FighterPilot:
Dummy!! F35 is a stealth fighter, its speed was compromised for its stealth capabilities and as such you won't see it coming.


Dummy!!

Dummy, F-22 is also a stealth jet and it's speed is mach 2....F-35 stealth jet speeds at mach 1.6 like JF -17 Thunder....you fool !

Henry240:
After going through the same process 4 years in a row, i simply wasn't willing to invest. I needed actual executive confirmation.


I'm happy with the JF-17, it's a great plane, and one of the most cost effective fighters in the world!


- 25 JF-17s,

- 6 SU-30s,

- 24 L-15s, is my ideal set-up.

I feel your thoughts my big boss, so many disappointments and delays in the past, don't worry, your wish is now granted by NAF getting a 4th generation jet.....and the deal for technology transfer remains on the table for Nigeria to build the jets at home and maybe even export, we will control the African market if we play smart with Pakistan as the first buyer in the world. Watch other countries follow us this 2016, they will start buying.

For ideal set up, I will prefer more deadly for NAF aircraft mix :

20 JF-17 Block 3 (Six trainer versions)

6 Su-35 Stealthy Flanker (Two trainer versions)

6 Su-25 COIN (Two trainer versions)

36 Super Mushak....4th gen trainer/COIN

Same $1.5 billion cost....the JF-17 answers MiG-29 and Gripen, Su-35 answers Su-30 and Rafale, Su-25 answers Boko Haram close range when pilot need to I.D. friend or foe by eye visual observation in a confused closed quaters combat ground battle space, Super Mushak answers Boko Haram at safe distance with guided munitions.

We need to be able to help African nations while we help ourselves. Brothers are brothers, long live Africa !

FighterPilot:
THREE JUNK FIGHTERS WITH A MAXIMUM SPEED OF A TORTOISE. BAD CHOICE, WASTEFUL EXPENDITURE.

FighterPilot:
JUNK FIGHTER IS AN INTERCEPTOR THAT MAKES MAX SPEED OF ONLY MACH 1.6. WHAT A JOKE!!!

Mach 1.6 is approx 2,000 km/h......Supersonic speed is about 1,240 km/h....how JF-17 Thunder a joke at mach 1.6 ?

F-35 Lightening Stealth jet as modern as it is, flies at same maximum speed with JF-17 Thunder.

BTWN....Gripen is a joke at max altitude of 50,000 feet while JF-17 Thunder flying over its head at 52,000 feet altitude.

#Butt Hurt Southie.....he envies our Thunder....their Gripen has the altitude of a pigeon
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Henry240:
Any evidence we signed a deal for 3?

The fools do not understand difference between budget amount and open order numbers. It works in batches, countries do open order for say 18 jets and start budget or payment in batches of 3 or 6 at a time. Even super rich Algeria with huge budget, took a few years to get all their Su-30 jets, it signed open order with Russia and paid by installments, and got the jets in batches over a period of years.

Universal procurement model used around the world. Even defenceweb said NAF will sign for one or two squadrons, did not say they will pay for all at once.

The Southies here know it, but they are too hurt to admit....Beechcraft ISTAR + Diamond ISR + ATR-42 MPA/ISTAR/ELINT/AWACS + Alpha Jet + L-39 jet + F-7NI + JF-17 Thunder.....is that not enough to drive a South African into mental epilepsy?

These Southie guys are badly hurt today, bruised, wounded, bleeding, ashamed....shell shocked, afraid, fearful...half dead !
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Patchesagain:
Cherry picking specifications again?

Same way your Southie friend cherry picked on speed, I responded with altitude. Simple.