₦airaland Forum

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Let us see how far we wrecked SANDF, SAAF, and SAN this weekend

⚫⚫ "Delivery of SDPP’s started in 2005 with frigates and submarines and was followed by LIFT aircraft in 2006, maritime helicopters in 2007 and fighter aircraft in 2009. The impression by many was that Link-ZA compliance by SDPP acquisition projects would imply message exchange inter-operability between all these platforms.

Disappointingly it was found that most platforms could only exchange information between similar type platforms ."

Source: Year 2011 research/report http://www.argospress.com/jbt/article_abstracts/14-3-2-abstract.pdf

SANDF Link ZA is an 80% failure, army, navy, air force CANNOT communicate with each other !

Even Gripen CANNOT communicate with Hawk, it can only use the data link Gripen to Gripen.

SAAF cannot use the FAKE tactical data link to send messages to SANDF artillery !

Link ZA ia a failure, South Africa DOES NOT have a functioning fully integrated Tactical Data Link !





⚫⚫ "Saab has a long experience in development of radars for fighter aircraft. PS-05/A for the Gripen aircraft has been in service since 1992. At present, the Gripen with PS-05/A operates in several countries.

Reference customers include the air forces of Sweden, South Africa, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Thailand."

http://saab.com/air/sensor-systems/fighter-radar/ps-05-a/

SAAF Gripen flies with obsolete 25 year old radar !!

JF-17 has year 2005 radar, more modern than SAAF Gripen !!

Photo: JF-17 Thunder's modern radar[/size]
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jln115:
You obviously don't know the difference between RCS and IR signature!!

The RCS has been conservatively estimated as 0.1m2 by experts.

I obviously defined the difference between RCS and IR signature, I educated you that IR is from the engine, and RCS is from the body size. I remain your teacher whitey boy with Zulu brain

There is NO world recognized expert on estimating RCS, all those figures you post are joggled by private people in their homes and posted all over internet, speculative unproved calculations. The people who post all those fake numbers do not even have Gripen jet in their homes, you need to have the aircraft physically with you and loaded with weapons before you can calculate the RCS.

RCS is so hard to calculate in reality that almost all jet aircraft manufacturers avoid calculating it and posting any figures, so NOW YOU HAVE TO PROVE the Gripen RCS from SAAB source ! Prove your 0.1 m2 claim ! Prove that Gripen RCS is the size of a small man, 0.1 m2 the size of a short slim human being ! Prove your claim of 0.1 m2 and stop embarrassing South Africa !
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jln115:
So its a blog?? Well in to the trash it goes!!

FighterPilot:
Shamaz Khan blog is still unreliable. You can see how he is reporting. He is using too much words as "It is said that"

You still lose guys ! There are MANY SOURCES all over internet that state the JF-17 max radar range as OVER 135 km and they are NOT blogs.

"The KLJ-7 radar has multiple modes and can handle greater than 40 targets, tracking 10 of them and guiding 4 BVR missiles to attack 4 of them at the same time. The detecting range for a typical air target of RCS 3 square meter is > 75 km; look-down-shoot-down range is > 45 km; range for sea target is > 135 km ."

http://www.grandestrategy.com/2007/06/light-sabre-for-third-world-fc-1-jf-17.html

I have spoiled y.our weekend again ! JF-17 radar has range of over 135 km. FACT ! PROVED !
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FighterPilot:
So is that your own source? I asking to allow me to destroy you with your own source and here I quote from your source:

The detection range for targets with a radar cross-section of 5 square meters is stated to be ≥105 km (≥85 km in look-down mode). Surface sea targets can be detected at up to 135 km

1.Now see here when it comes to radar search there is a difference between hard ground targets and sea surfac targets. Do that research.

2. JLF-7 radar fitted to the Junk Fighter can detect targets with radar cross section (RCS) of 5 square meters at >/=105 km. Now, Gripen has an RCS of 0.1square meter, almost has stealth capabilities. That means Gripen will remain undetected on the JF-17 avionics until to about less than 20 KM. That will be a lot risky especially when Gripen is armed with a BVR weapons.

I hope you can now see why is the Junk Fighter weak.

1. There is no difference, radars capture targets by object SIZE not by location on ground or sea. Do that research.


2.

⚫ Gripen does NOT have radar cross section RCS of 0.1 m2, show us SAAB source to prove that, show us now ! Liar ! Fraud !

⚫ Also show us proof that JF-17 radar cannot detect a Gripen until the Gripen is less than 20 km away, show us a source to prove this lie !

⚫ RCS of 0.1 m2 is for the size of a human being ! So is Gripen jet as small as a man ! Plus Gripen is NOT listed as stealth or near stealth jet anywhere in the world, it has all it's hardpoints hanging outside, all weapons carried outside, fuel drop tanks carried outside, and all that creates rough contour shapes for radar waves to hit and reflect back to source thus detecting the Gripen, and the Gripen has NO stealth paint !

⚫ What da fvck ! Gripen jet is NOT a stealth or stealthy jet fighter....and it's smoking engine is like MiG-29...makes it easy for JF-17 missiles to pursue the heat and thick black smoke thermal-infra red emmission oozing out massively and even visibly from the Gripen's smoking engine !

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mzilakazi:
Stop bringing WordPress here because that is a blog. You failed. My source is much better credible than yours. Wordpress is a cheap web that comes free for bloggers. YOU FAILED.

Junk Fighters radar range stand at 105 km. Final

Nope, its not a public commentary blog, it is a wordpress page and they usually call them blogs, but this website has no public comments or do you see people writing anyhow on his page? The man is a jet fighter pilot from inside Pakistani air force !


"As a fighter pilot I know from my own experiences how decisive surprise and luck can be for success, which in the long run comes only to the one who combines daring with cool thinking.[unknown]

About Me: Engineer, Blogger and photographer, if that fits the description. I am neither a journalist nor good at writing big articles,This blog is just the collection of some of my thoughts about what’s going around me, and some stories that i prefer to share. I prefer to write about Aerospace and Defence Industry. Thanks for stopping by and happy reading."

https://shamazkhan./tag/klj-7-radar/

His words can be taken for facts from direct source inside Pakistani air force, he says JF-17 radar is 135 km max range. FACT !
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jln115:
Neither is your source ret@rd!! You shoot yourself more times in the foot, than you can count.

Your source has NO name, NO contact address, NO I.D.....My source is a named and profiled jet fighter pilot inside Pakistan itself.

"As a fighter pilot I know from my own experiences how decisive surprise and luck can be for success, which in the long run comes only to the one who combines daring with cool thinking.[unknown]

About Me: Engineer, Blogger and photographer, if that fits the description. I am neither a journalist nor good at writing big articles,This blog is just the collection of some of my thoughts about what’s going around me, and some stories that i prefer to share. I prefer to write about Aerospace and Defence Industry. Thanks for stopping by and happy reading."

https://shamazkhan./tag/klj-7-radar/

His words can be taken for facts from direct source inside Pakistani air force. Your own source is from Mr.Nobody, not that his facts are wrong, but they are incomplete and less detailed than the PAF pilot's website
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jln115:
Wow...so as a so-called military researcher you are taking the word of an anonymous person that posted a few sentences in NL??

Nope, it's because as a military researcher who knows 1,000 times more than you do, I knew from day one that a jet with fly-by-wire is 4th Gen, and I told you many times over and over again, buy since you were born m.entally backward, you CANNOT think independently beyond a questionable website comment that you should have queried.

Foolish boy with transplanted Zulu medula oblongata.

mzilakazi:
Wrong (X). Gripen JAS 39 is 4.5 Gen fighter. It is a western machine with front ailerons for pefect maneuvering. Is definitely not better than King Gripen.

4.5 Gen fighters do NOT use 20 year old obsolescent Pulse Doppler radar, you fool ! Gripen C is simple 4th Gen, no + or .5 to add. Olodo.

Patchesagain:
I hate it when people insult my intelligence with bad arguments and blatant misrepresentations.

....but you do the same to other people, and complain when you are given a dose of your own bitter medicine.

jln115:
http://www.janes.com/article/56924/pakistan-pushes-for-jf-17-sale-to-sri-lanka

Guess Jane's Defence can't think independently as well?

Guess why intelligent Nigerians refused to agree with Janes while you South African dullards did agree?

Nigerians think independently, South Africans are enslaved in their thinking, they swallow everything they see written, you cannot query things.

mzilakazi:
Agaugust why don't you take words from South Africans then like you takw them from Pakistani man?

I won't because you South Africans are VERY BIG LIARS and full of ENVY of whatever good thing Nigeria does or gets
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Sahuchak:
Exactly,

PAC and china can use whatever classification they want. Doesnt change the fact that our pilots say its on par with f-16c/d.

Would they lie?

And why would we be producing 250 fighters?

JF-17 on par with American F-16 C/D....Awesome Thunder !
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jln115:
Not according to me.....I just quoted PAC!!

....because your Zulu brain in Boer/Anglo skull cannot analyze what you read, you just swallow it even if it does not make sense and needs to be queried, you cannot think on your own, you need Nigerians to help you think out a problem and solve it.

jln115:
If so! Then why are PAC classifying the JF17 as 3rd Gen?

The Pakistani man just explained it to you or your b.rain transplant is still having hiccups in 2016 ? Mumu dullard.

Sahuchak:
Hi guys,

Im from pakistan.

Just read that people are calling jf-17 3rd gen.

It is Chinese 3rd gen which is equivalent to 4th gen.

The chinese also consider j-10 3rd gen.

They skipped a generation.

https://pafwallpapers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/jf-17_thunder_understanding-_cockpit.jpg
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Sahuchak:
Hi guys,

Im from pakistan.

Just read that people are calling jf-17 3rd gen.

It is chinese 3rd gen which is equivalent to 4th gen.

The chinese also consider j-10 3rd gen.

They skipped a generation.

Thank you
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jln115:
Who are the exemplary armies in Africa?.........NOT Nigeria hahahah!!

Let the excuses begin!!

http://www.theafricareport.com/News-Analysis/who-are-the-exemplary-armies-in-africa.html

Journalist private opinion, he even has no name, anonymous journalist....what are his defence/military analyst credentials? None.

The mumu even refused to list Tanzanian army that commanded South Africa in Congo, he just picked out SANDF and deleted Tanzanian army and Malawian army that fought together with SANDF as a team ALL UNDER TANZANIAN ARMY COMMANDER !

Outdated article written 2012 before SANDF got their brown azzes burnt black by Seleka farmer rebels in Bangui 2013

Hogwash news report. Goes to the gabbage bin.

Patchesagain:
South Africa needs no training and is well equipped to provide training - those countries you listed need training because their military institutions have no experience in that type of combat.

So, South Africa/Egypt/Algeria/Morocco and many countries of that teir are well placed to train others.

Which COIN war has South Africa fought in the last 25 years to have modern day COIN experience to train another country ?

Patchesagain:
African nations have the capabilities to train their own SF


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eFU_r_H_gg

African nations cannot even train their regular troops effectively, they need foreign help, not to talk of training SF

Flintlock, etc

Africa is still using British SF to train ordinary Rangers on how to stop Rhino poaching, so where are your African SF ? You think everybody has the talent and training to train others and impart knowledge effectively? No.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrSxJHmal4

Even the military of Ukraine is being trained by SF from Canada and Britain in anti-rebel military combat 2016 as we speak. Better swallow pride and get help to build a good foundation. Even USA that has a proud army is getting COIN training from private military companies to fight COIN combat, why don't the US army just rely on training themselves? Let us learn to face facts in Africa.

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Proforce offers uparmoured military trucks for mass troop transport. African countries that cannot afford $1 million APC in large numbers can use such trucks armoured anywhere that is cheap, maybe $150,000 will be a total cost for each truck plus armour plus roof mounted 12.7mm gun.

30 troops in a $150,000 armoured and armed truck, you would need APC investment of ten times more money to move those troops.

Dollars 150 k Vs 1.5 m

Military Trucks:

Proforce manufactures Armoured Military Trucks that are suitable for troop's deployment and military supplies on a variety of Chassis such as, IVECO, MAN, DAF, MERCEDES BENZ, IZUZU AND MITSUBISHI.

The trucks are armour protected with premium light-weight materials and ballistic steel with a protection level up to B6/NIJ III and B7/NIJ IV. These trucks are suitable for operations in both hot and cold conditions, with a remarkable deep water capability.

All tires to Proforce' military trucks are fitted with run-flat inserts, which provide escape mobility when tires are punctured. In warfare, several attacks are usually experienced during military supplies or re-deployment; the features of our armoured trucks help to withstand all threats including shocks from buried roadside bombs and rolled hand-grenades.

With an approach and departure angle up to 350, the trucks are able to overcome obstacles when in motion.

An escape hatch on the roof to the driver's cabin and a mount for machine guns provides the advantage to defend in a case of ambush.

The ballistic walls surrounding the bucket/carrier with gun ports enable infantry men to engage and retreat when under attack.
24/7 CALL RESPONSE.

Centrifude:
Raising an AU SF Battalion is a great idea but outsourcing their training would be a Completely dumb idea, it would be better to keep their training within African parameters. You can't seriously tell me that we don't have in Africa what Belarus has to offer.

I'm am more than certain that each member state of the AU would be able to contribute some form of high level Expertise with regards to training an SF unit. The one thing we would need to do is to conduct sufficient research to determine what each country can offer, it will take a lot of time and money but it is the best answer in the long run.

Each African country is definitely an expert at some form of SF skill.

For Example Zimbabwe could offer a CQB course, Tanzania Jungle training, Egypt Desert Warfare, DRC ambush or guerilla tactics Etc...

I only used those countries as examples I'm not saying that they are actual experts in those fields I hope you all see that.

Fact is everything we need is already here in Africa.

Why did SANDF go to Brazil for jungle warfare training and NA went to Belarus for COIN training? It's one thing to have men who can train others, but it's another thing to have training facilities and advanced electro-mech training simulators and hardware that suit modern COIN warfare. Belarus SF regiment has it's roots in the Soviet Union SF and they have war experience from many years of COIN combat with Mujahedeen in Afghanistan. Only Algeria and Nigeria has that level of modern COIN experience in Africa today, but do they have advanced training equipment with hi-tech capabilities? SF training is more than the bush and field jumping running hiding that you see. There is a hi-tech component behind closed doors in specially built facilities.

How well did Kenyan SF do when El-Shabab held hostages in Nairobi shopping mall? Ethiopian forces got hard hit in Somalia and didnt find it easy. The incident ended in disaster. African training still has a long way to go.

Patchesagain:
It has no advantage by nations around the world have spent billions developig and implimenting it?

Tactical data link is cheap, it does NOT cost billions of dollars, its a computer software basically, its not a nuclear missile.

LINK ZA cost only a few million Rands, not even dolllars. Total cost to develop it is probably less than $1 million. Stop making up false figures, liar, robber !
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Patchesagain:
It has no advantage by nations around the world have spent billions developig and implimenting it?

Lol, ok, whatever you say

95% of world military forces have no tactical datalink including big powers whom we assume they dont have like North Korea, will SANDF use data link to defeat North Korea in battle? Your South Africa will be dëströyed in 5 minutes by North Korea.

There will be no more Zulu nation on world Atlas map, yöu die with yõur data link !
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Patchesagain:
TDL = Instant transfer of info amongst ALL nodes in the network
Nigerian way = calling each individual commander and updating information verbally

Nope, you are wrong, NAF has many aircraft and drones with inbuilt datalink, NN has many vessels with inbuilt datalink, they relay messages back to command centre via individual datalinks, they dont have to use voice. NA is the only one I have not seen their datalink platforms, but they have things that are just beign revealed, they have not shown us their land based mobile command and control systems moved from Abuja to Maiduguri.

SANDF LINK ZA failed to perform as expected its now just about 20% success I will say. That is the report from South Africa, NATO refused to sell you the real data link technology so the one made in South Africa os inferior and grossly inefficient, it CANNOT do all those things you guys are claiming here, that is the report from South African experts who built the LINK ZA....its a paper tiger...toothless bulldog ! FACT !
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FighterPilot:
It is many times faster since TDL is immediate.

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How many times faster? I have asked 7 times no Southy can answer? Or JF-17 has damaged yöu South Africans' brains?

TDL travels via satellite, same way normal satcom or internet communication travels via satellite.

I ask the again tell us how many times fsster your data link is over normal satcom
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Patchesagain:
Infinitely because it is instant

In arithmetics, is infinity a number? Olodo goat brained Southy dullard

Tell us the difference in speed of your datalink and real-time transmission satellite/radio/internet command and control....if you cannot answer, then your Link-ZA tactical data-link is NO SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE over normal communication equipment
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FighterPilot:
TDL is immediate since you can directly see what frigates and aircrafts see. C2 can be as modern but is not network based. It still operate in isolated unit.

TDL-MTN is more like one screen showing many images from different platforms. Gripen can see what our frigates, submarines, ground troops see at the same time and other platforms likewise. When one platform locates the enemy all platforms see immediately in pictorial view. Can all see what enemy is wearing, what is he carrying and how many are they.

With all this network in place, communication will be as immediate just like your front door camera is showing you that there is someone knocking on the front door. Surely, your camera will not tell you after seconds that there is someone coming. Once your camera catches your visitor, your monitor will tell you immediately and if someone is sharing a monitor with you on the other room(s), you will both see the same thing and will not even need a phone to alert each other about the visitor.

You proved NOTHING with long story ! I said how many times is data link faster than C2 ? Answer with proof !

Give us numbers or figures to prove your point. There C2 systems that transmit by inbuilt datalink in real time and instant, two isolated combat units can share data in 30 seconds....or how slow is internet and sattelite communications? It takes hours to send a message by email or radio comms/phone ?


So, tell us how many times is data link faster than C2 that 95% of world military forces are using successfuly with no tactical datalink ? Answer with proof !

RooiBoi:
My god... Are my eyes even real? What am I reading here? Are you dense?

Many times faster? If you know what a large-scale engagement is like, it is chaotic and unpredictable. Warfare is much different than 50 years ago as you said about Egypt and Israel.

Just as Mig-21's have evolved into Su-35's, Radio and Hub-spoke communication have evolved into Net-centric/aware warfare. Its so much more efficient and effective than prior means.

When there is a mission that is to be completed of the utmost importance, knowing where your teammates are, where your reinforcements is, what they are equipped with, where they are headed is the difference between Victory and Defeat, Life and Death.

When you are under fire, adrenaline pumping you won't be asking questions like 'How many times faster' or 'I have C2 that can do the same thing', you will want to know what is going on around you and maintain situation awareness by having the best communications equipment available.

What you are saying is that C2 can do the same thing Net-Centric (Link-ZA) comms can. Yes of course, just like Harold Godwinson in the Battle of Hastings in 1066 you can draw on a map, write 30 pages long of descriptive poetry and send your chariot to deliver messages about where artillery and aa-positions are. Its just so much more efficient with Link-ZA.

Please think before you write.

E.g: *note this is exactly what happened during 1999 Chechen War, as a result of repeated ambushes and counter-attacks*
C2:

Platoon Underfire from large-scale enemy assault.
Requires assistance and fire-support
Radios Command
Command is overwhelmed by large number of requests for Fire support and reinforcements
Repeated hails are unanswered
Command is unable to establish a picture about the scenario as they cannot process too much information
Platoon isolated, overcome by enemy attacks

Net-Centric

Platoon Underfire from large-scale enemy assault.
Lasers target for artillery and uses Electronic system to place urgent assistance
Command can see multiple attacks from multiple angles of differing strengths all over front line
Able to ask specific platoons to retreat and sends reinforcements to most vital parts, ensuring enemy does not achieve total breakthrough.
Momentum broken, able to reorganise and counter.

[size=13pt] You proved NOTHING with long story ! I said how many times is data link faster than C2 ? Answer with proof !
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mzilakazi:
How many times was your soldiers literally robbed by BH in their own homeland?

SA security agency was never literally robbed. The money was stolen just like Dasuki robbed your military $2 billion in its homeland.

Did Dasuki use a gun or stick, or broke through locked windows? According to common law universally, corruption is NOT armed robbery . Fool !

Nigerian military recaptured or destroyed ALL weapons we lost to Bokos.

South African army weapons get looted at home in your bakcyard armoury in your own country. Also. SANDF weapons robbed from them remain in Burundi and Bangui being used rebels with confidence....SANDF has no courage to go get it back...cowards
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mzilakazi:
US donates MRAPS to the less fortunate.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/01/07/us-gives-vehicles-to-nigerias-army-as-boko-haram-launches-attacks.html

US donated C-130 Hercules aircraft to South African air force, Germany donated Warships to South African navy.

You live in a glass house, dont throw stones....your country is 3rd world Zulu nation
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Patchesagain:
Just like the incident in question was corruption and NOT armed robbery you dunce

Your own country reports it as ROBBERY you liar !!

A brazen robbery, possibly involving tens of millions of
rand, at the offices of the State Security Agency has raised
questions about the effectiveness of the organisation tasked
with keeping South Africans safe.
The robbery took place in the early hours of December 26,
but by Sunday [January 3] the agency was unable to say how
much had been stolen; why its Pretoria headquarters were
so insecure that a safe with cash could be broken into; and
the reason for it keeping cash on the premises.

www.african-defense.com/defense-news-2/robbery-at-south-africas-state-security-agency/

SA intel robbed in its homeland ! Shame !

Cant stop laughing....
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