AbuTwins:
That's your own theory as an ignorant Christian! Allah mentions Abraham, Moses, the disciples of Jesus, Solomon, David, etc as Muslims in the Qur'an!

I won't argue this much cus it is believed the Quran was not divinely inspired. Do you know that Mohammed himself opened that Satan wrote some verses of the Quran?

AbuTwins:

In fact, all Prophets from Adam, Noah, Jacob, Jonah,......, Elijah, Elisha, Joseph, Zechariah, John the baptist, etc are Muslims!

How can a book that's written years after these events happened document them? It's only copy and paste from the Bible. And that's why there is no one single complete story in the Quran except for the story of Joseph. Ok wait! Who's a Muslim? Answer this fess.

AbuTwins:

That was the pre-islamic Arabia. They did believe in the supreme diety and creator but associate idols in worship with Him.

And this supreme deity is Allah?

AbuTwins:


How is abrogation the problem of any Christian?

Don't you have old covenant and New covenant in your Bible?

Some people no Sabi think o!

Wow! Just Wow!!

Did you listen to yourself at all?
Your line of reasoning doesn't align. In the Bible, there were old and new covenants. And these two were well documented. None was removed, nothing covered. However, in the parchment you carry, there were verses that were no longer recited because Allah was alleg d to have given Mohammed new covenants. So, they stop reciting the old ones. And these old ones are not in the Quran when it was finally written.

Maybe you do not even know what abrogation meant in the first place.
Are you even a true Muslim? When last did you drink Camel's urine? 😂
Remind me, Who are the daughters of the Moon god, Allah? Anyway, that's just ona lighter note.

Guy, let's meet on Twitter space naw. Let me tutor you.

AbuTwins:


This is foolish sir. Are Christian groups too not fighting since the time of Paul, James and Peter after Jesus left? Go and read your history!

You can even talk about the crusade of Martin Luther!

Who told you Iraq and Iran fight is mainly religious?

You wey no dey do politics no fit Sabi politics!
You go just dey spread falsehood!

It is evident you didn't know the history of the Crusaders. Crusades were purely reactionary.

MaxInDHouse:


Shi'ites and Sunnis are Muslims groups they fought for many years against one another and blood kept flowing.
Iraq and Iran were Muslim nations they fought for many years and blood kept flowing.

Can you tell me which of these groups failed to MEMORIZE your Quran effectively?

NO!

That shows the memorization is worthless!

That thing called Quran is inherently flawed which has never stood the scrutiny of any independent observer in history. Only if they knew how many verses were abrogated....

AbuTwins:


The salvation of the Muslims during Jesus's time and in those 570 years does not depend on Jesus's death or resurrection!
Even if they believed Jesus died or not it doesn't matter!

There were no Muslims before Mohammed.

AbuTwins:


What matters is their belief in God as one and the worship of the one God alone in truth!
So anyone who believes in God and submits wholly to Him alone through any of the Prophets is always a Muslim at any point in time!

Polytheism was the practice of the day. Before Mohammed, they never believed in any ONE God.

AbuTwins:


Nothing of course!

Jesus will fight when he gets the opportunity and his military!

He had a lot of opportunities. But you know what? He's not like the other guy who slaughters people like chicken. Read Luke 22:50-51

Ok! Let me school you a bit. Arabic writing was far from perfected during the time of Muhammad, which is why there was no such thing as a written Arabic book (Any reference to an Arabic kitab, the word for “book,” was actually an oral text that was handed down through poets and reciters. It was not a written book). When initially writing the text of the Quran, letters and vowel markings were still being standardized, which led to confusion. For these reasons, what the scribes wrote were memory aids for the oral text. This is actually a fairly uncontroversial fact even among Muslim Quran scholars.

The text of the Quran was fluid during the time of Muhammad. He would recite the same verse multiple ways, saying he could do so up to seven ways. If at any point a text needed to be canceled, it could simply be abrogated and replaced with another text.

Since the text of the Quran was not seen as a written text, this caused little problem: All that was required was to stop reciting certain verses and to “forget” what had been revealed.

Explore2xmore:



Why will you make blatantly false claims?

In the year 661, Sahl ibn Abī Ḥathma, Abdullah ibn Abbas, and Saʿīd ibn Saʿd ibn ʿUbāda al-Khazrajī wrote about Muhammad in various historical texts. These three writers were contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad and played significant roles in documenting his life and teachings.

Does 661-632 =140 years? Please what form of maths is this?

AbuTwins:
This is a lie!

Not all of us have it.


Back to the discussion. Read the passage you quoted from verse 12. Jesus was telling a parable. So, he wasn't the one sanctioning that.

Note that he's not a violent man. He's a not a rapist, he does not keep women for sex, he nebyer killed. Even if he had lived a 100 years, he could never have done any of the abominable things your prophet did.

So explain the parable. I have read the exegesis already it is war!
Even if Jesus didn't kill.
His father did!
Shebi they are one and together in Trinity?

You just said you have read the exegesis. Hat else do you want me to explain to you?

AbuTwins:
Na you write am?

When Christians copy works of orientalists and other bigots there's no need wasting too much time on them.



Jesus didn't have time! Na just three years he used and he wasn't militarized like the Biblical Moses, Joshua, Saul, Samson, etc!

However, he still proposed war and death to his enemies!
And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’” Luke 19:27

😂
You know what? Almost every Muslim has a Bible. Why? With the sole aim of critiquing it. All your Imams have this Holy Book.

Back to the discussion. Read the passage you quoted from verse 12. Jesus was telling a parable. So, he wasn't the one sanctioning that.

Note that he's not a violent man. He's a not a rapist, he does not keep women for sex, he nebyer killed. Even if he had lived a 100 years, he could never have done any of the abominable things your prophet did.

AbuTwins:


At least Saudi Arabia is still an Islamic country! Close to 96% are Muslims. That's a legacy!
They don't require any response!
What you copied and pasted looks like a journal so the response to it should also be academic as well.

And i don't have such time!


Are we talking about the historicity or there's a diversion to another topic?

I can also divert to the assassinations, enslavements, rape, etc in the Bible.
I have the records plenty!
And mind you no one should mention context here!

Well, I'm an academician so I write like one.
Why are you scared of context? You can't just read a verse and understand it's meaning, read a chapter before and a chapter after to understand what's being said.

So, bring it on. I mean, where Jesus commanded all of these things? I dey with you.
However, respond to the footnotes fess

AbuTwins:


Confusion is when you have several translations of the Book called Bible through the ages!
Many people have died believing the falsehood discovered now!

Jehovah had to keep people in error right?

Why do you talk as if the book called Quran is one? The book was made from oral traditions, which means those who wrote the book must have brought in their own ideas. Different people have their own versions of the Quran.

AbuTwins:


Na wetin you say make i come read be this?


The life story of Muhammad is clear to us and the fabrications are also clear!
No be Christians and orientalists go come dey tell us what we know!

How come Saudi Arabia still retain at least a little of the legacy of Islam from Muhammad as we read from the same texts you criticize but none of Jesus's so-called Christian legacies exists in Israel?

Abeg!

Name those legacies for me, then we can start from there. As you can see from my post, I have conversed with Muslim scholars from different countries and read widely on both sides of the divide. It's so pitiful that you could not even respond to footnotes 3-10. How could someone who claimed to be inspired of God order people to be assassinatiom, enslaved, raped, etc.? Is that who Allah is? The name 'Mohammed' was not even mentioned in the Quran you're holding. SMH

Before you start with the Bible, why not start here: https://www.nairaland.com/8080732/accounts-mohammeds-life#129762057

AbuTwins:
Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16 that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

1 Samuel 13:1
1.NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION
Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty- two years.

2. ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION
Saul lived for one year and then became king, and when he had reigned for two years over Israel.

3. KING JAMES BIBLE
Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel

4. NET BIBLE
Saul was [thirty] years old when he began to reign; he ruled over Israel for [forty] years.

5. NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE 1977
Saul was forty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned thirty-two years over Israel.

6. JPS TANAKH 1917
Saul was --years old when he began to reign; and two years he reigned over Israel.

7. AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION
Saul was forty years old when he began to reign; and when he had reigned two years over Israel

8. YOUNG'S LITERAL VERSION
A son of a year is Saul in his reigning, yea, two years he hath reigned over Israel

Questions
1. How old was Saul when he became King?
2. How long did he reign over Israel?

Emusan
Aemmyjah
MaxInDHouse

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people".

REFERENCES

1. Found in Ibn Hisham’s notes. The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, trans. Alfred Guillaume (Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2002), 691.

2. We can be sure the disgraceful material and distressing facts are related to Muhammad, since Ibn Hisham had already discussed excising material that was not related to Muhammad earlier in his list of omissions.

3. The Life of Muhammad, 494.

4. Ibid., 675.

5. Ibid., 675–76, with supplemental details from Ibn Sa’d: “Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her.
He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet.” Muhammad Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, trans. S. Moinul Haq, vol. 2 (Karachi:
Pakistan Historical Society, 1972), 30–31.

6. The Life of Muhammad, 515.

7. Ibid., 308.

8. Andrew Higgins, “Professor Hired for Outreach to Muslims Delivers a Jolt,” Wall Street Journal, November 15, 2008, http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122669909279629451.

9. Some may respond by objecting that Ahmad is a title for Muhammad, but that is begging the question.

10. For more on Western scholastic approaches to studying early Islam, read F. M. Donner, Narratives of Islamic Origins: The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing (Princeton: Darwin Press, 1998). For a more popular-level, engaging read, consider Tom Holland’s In the Shadow of the Sword: The Birth of Islam and the Rise of the Global Arab Empire (New York: Random House, 2012).

As Muslims know that it was a long time after Muhammad died before anything substantial was written about his life, but people did not cease talking about him.

For over two hundred years, stories about the Islamic 'prophet' were passed orally from person to person, and among the true accounts proliferated many fabrications. By the time a systematic effort was made to sort through them, over five hundred thousand (500,000) accounts of Muhammad’s life were in popular circulation, and it is commonly estimated that the vast majority of them were false.

HOW CAN WE KNOW WHICH ACCOUNTS OF MUHAMMAD’S LIFE ARE TRUSTWORTHY?

Let's assume the classical Islamic method for assessing the authenticity of hadith. In the field of uloom al-hadith, translated “the science of Muhammad’s sayings,” Muslim scholars grade individual accounts of Muhammad’s life based on criteria such as how well-known an account was and who the people relaying it were. The most trustworthy hadith are ultimately graded sahih, which means “true” or “authentic,” whereas the weakest hadith are labelled daeef (“weak”) or even maudu (“fabricated”).

Imam Bukhari and his student Imam Muslim were two highly respected scholars in the third century after Muhammad, and they collected only those hadith which they considered sahih and beyond dispute. Most Muslims consider their collections above reproach. In using only the hadith that they approved, Muslims were deluded to see Muhammad was the noble and peaceful man that they've always been taught, and that there were no problematic accounts in his life.
But this isn't the case. Problematic accounts existed even amid the sahih collections.

If you ask imams to resolve these problematic accounts found in the sahih, and also search online, you'll see how other Muslims responded to the criticisms. What I learned was that many were willing to accuse even the sahih collections of containing fabricated accounts, finding ways to dismiss those accounts that were considered authentic by the great Muslim scholars of old.

It was then I realized they were essentially finding ways to pick and choose from the ancient records which accounts were reliable and which were not, creating a Muhammad that they felt comfortable with.

If you want to know who Muhammad really was and whether you should follow him as your prophet, not to create a Muhammad in your mind that was worth following. I suggest you reconsider your approach and study Muhammad using the historical method instead of uloom al-hadith.

THE HISTORICAL METHOD

What were the earliest accounts written about Muhammad, and how soon were they written?

Here, you'll discover some shocking facts about early Islam. First, people were not writing books in Arabic during Muhammad’s time. The first Arabic book to have been written was the Quran, and even that was turned into a written book only after Muhammad died. There was no such thing as written Arabic literature, only oral. This is because, second, people were still figuring out how to write Arabic. Arabic script was far from standardized, having been invented only a century or two before Muhammad’s time. For these reasons and others, third, no one wrote a biography of Muhammad’s life until about 140 years after Muhammad died. By that time, there were certainly no eyewitnesses of Muhammad’s life, and people were generations removed from the events they discussed. Could we trust such an account to be an unfiltered and accurate depiction of Muhammad?

The first biography, Sirat Rasul Allah, was written by a man named Ibn Ishaq, but the book itself has actually been lost. Ibn Ishaq taught a man named al-Bakkai, who made his own edition of Ibn Ishaq’s book, and al-Bakkai taught a man named Ibn Hisham, who edited al-Bakkai’s edition, and it is this edition that we have today. Why did these men each make their own editions? Ibn Hisham tells us in his introductory remarks: “Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as al-Bakkai told me he could not accept as trustworthy—all these things I have omitted.”¹ In other words, the earliest biography of Muhammad’s life was reputed to contain fabrications, disgraceful material, and distressing facts.² What we have today has been filtered many times, both for fabrications and for difficult truths.

It is because of such intentional editing that historians do not consider late accounts as trustworthy as early accounts, all else being equal. The earlier accounts have not been as filtered, and therefore are more likely to be true. Also, people are more prone to forget information over time, especially information that does not fit with the narrative at large. When it comes to the records of Muhammad’s life, we simply do not have such early or unfiltered data. Everything has been filtered through multiple generations.

Even though the earliest biography went through layers of filtering, it still contains shocking material. Some of them are listed here:

Muhammad personally oversaw the beheadings of up to nine hundred men on a single day, digging trenches in the marketplaces so that their corpses could fall into mass graves upon being decapitated.³

He ordered the assassination of an old man who had composed poetry complaining about Muhammad.⁴

A woman lamented the old man’s death in poetry, so Muhammad ordered her assassination, and her blood splattered on her children as she breastfed.⁵

Muhammad ordered the torture of a city treasurer to extract the location of the money, so his men kindled a fire with flint and steel on the treasurer’s chest until he was nearly dead, ultimately beheading him;⁶

When Muhammad was about to execute a man, the man pleaded, “Who will look after my children?” to which Muhammad responded, “Hell!”⁷

Just by scratching the surface of the earliest biography we find many troubling accounts of Muhammad. By the time hadith were written under men like Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim, many of these accounts were filtered out of Muhammad’s biography, just as Ibn Hisham and al-Bakkai had filtered the accounts that they received.

For this reason, selective filtration, the whole body of hadith is inherently flawed: They contain only those accounts that multiple generations of early Muslims each chose to save. As we have seen, even those that were kept are often considered flawed and fabricated.

WHAT CAN WE REALLY KNOW ABOUT MUHAMMAD?
For this reason, non-Muslim scholars of early Islam are very hesitant to trust the information about the life of Muhammad. Almost none accept the science of hadith criticism as it stands, most just hoping to extract historical kernels of truth from the hadith. Some scholars have even abandoned hope of that much success, saying virtually nothing can be known about Muhammad.
These scholars are from a variety of religious and nonreligious backgrounds. One Muslim scholar concluded that, given the nature of the evidence, Muhammad may not have even existed.

Muhammad Sven Kalisch completed his PhD in Islamic jurisprudence in 1997 and became Germany’s first professor to hold a chair in Islamic theology. When he arrived at Münster University in 2004, he struck some as too conservative on account of his zeal for sharia. But then, according to the Wall Street Journal, Kalisch “wanted to subject Islam to the same scrutiny as Christianity and Judaism.”⁸ At first he defended the historicity of Muhammad in print, but the more he studied, the more he realized there were significant problems with the record. The word Muhammad appears only four times in the Quran, and it is unclear whether it is a name or a title. Quran 61.6 appears to say that the Prophet’s name was Ahmad, not Muhammad.⁹ There is no other evidence of Muhammad’s existence until the turn of the eighth century, when coins bearing his name were produced. “The more I read, the historical person at the root of the whole thing became more and more improbable,” says Muhammad Kalisch.

Other scholars are coming to similar conclusions on account of the holes in the historical records. Their concerns are more than an argument from silence; if the traditional understanding of Islam is true, it is indeed very problematic that we do not find more about Muhammad in the earliest historical records. If Muhammad was the prophet of the Arabs, and if they were energized and motivated by his teachings, why is it that the Arab conquests of the Middle East, North Africa, and Persia never mention his name? These conquests occurred in the middle of the seventh century, immediately after Muhammad’s death, yet none of the contemporary records mention Muhammad. In fact, none mention a holy book or even the word Muslim. It is not that there are no records; considering the communications of the conquerors and the writings of the conquered, there are abundant records, yet Muhammad is never named, a holy book is never discussed, and the conquerors are never called Muslims.

Other evidence also has historians scratching their heads: Although Mecca is reputed to be a trade center, it never appears in any trade routes until the turn of the eighth century; none of the earliest mosques faced toward Mecca (all faced toward either Jerusalem or Petra until about the turn of the eighth century); Mecca is mentioned only once in the Quran; the descriptions of the land in the Quran sound very little like Mecca, much more like northern Arabia; and the list goes on.

For these reasons, not just one Muslim scholar but many scholars doubt the traditional origins of Islam and even the existence of Muhammad, at least as the early Islamic records describe him. According to them, the truth about the origins of Islam is unfortunately veiled. There is almost nothing we can know with certainty about the historical Muhammad.¹⁰

ukaface:
Make I talk true
Na my mama be that woman

You sef like better thing.

Hello Engineers,

Please my laptop screen shows this display anytime I carry it by the edge... I will have to force shut down to gain stability again.


Please what's the issue?


https://mega.nz/file/4kxUEB6S#c-JsZ2vyee7pkTqylXZCwxhXzZ-uCpuXKNMsW-xIVV4


https://mega.nz/file/4kxUEB6S#c-JsZ2vyee7pkTqylXZCwxhXzZ-uCpuXKNMsW-xIVV4

MajESTHY:
Ion wanna talk..
He will come back to his senses one day and maybe by then,a guy with eyesight has taken me already.

And you miss the guy with foresight

Botragelad:

Well, I appreciate your effort to use the Bible as a guide for your fashion choices, but I think you're making some faulty assumptions and interpretations. Let me show you why.

First of all, you're using the example of Moses in Egypt as a precedent for how God wants us to dress. But you're forgetting that Moses was raised as an Egyptian prince, not as an Israelite slave. He was not trying to look like an Egyptian, he was one by culture and education. He did not know his true identity until he was older. He did not choose his appearance to please God or to distinguish himself from the ungodly people around him. He simply wore what was normal and expected for his social status and background.

Secondly, you're using the commandments that God gave the Israelites as a standard for all Christians in all times and places. But you're ignoring that those commandments were given to a specific people in a specific context. They were not meant to be universal or timeless rules for everyone. They were rather expressions of God's covenant with Israel and his desire to make them a holy nation among the nations. They were also reflections of the cultural and historical situations in which they lived. They were not about the outward appearance, but about the inward obedience and devotion.

Using the verse from Romans 12:1 as a proof that we have to be careful how others view us. But you're missing the point of that verse and the whole chapter. Paul is not talking about dressing or fashion in that verse. He is talking about offering our bodies as living sacrifices to God, which means our whole lives and actions. He is not saying that you have to conform to the expectations or opinions of others. He is saying that you have to transform your minds and renew your thinking according to God's will. He is not saying that you have to identify ourselves by our dressing or fashion. He is saying that you have to identify yourselves by your gifts and roles in the body of Christ.

The Bible doesn't give any specific instructions or examples. It doesn't say that you have to look like Egyptians or Israelites or Marlians or Matthews. It doesn't say that you have to follow the trends or the traditions of your society. So where's yours coming from??

While I appreciate your perspective, I'd like to offer a contrary viewpoint to some of the arguments presented.

Firstly, regarding the example of Moses, it's important to consider that while he was raised as an Egyptian prince, his eventual rejection of his privileged upbringing in favor of his true identity as an Israelite leader can be seen as a conscious choice. This transition, along with his subsequent role as a deliverer of the Israelites, could be interpreted as an intentional distancing from the Egyptian culture, including its attire. It's plausible to argue that Moses' later choices were guided by a deeper spiritual understanding.

Secondly, while the commandments given to the Israelites were indeed specific to that context, they contain underlying principles that can be extrapolated. For instance, principles of modesty, respect, and honoring God in one's appearance can be relevant in various cultural settings. These principles transcend time and place and can guide individuals in making choices that reflect their devotion to God.

Regarding Romans 12:1, while it primarily addresses the offering of one's life to God, it can also be interpreted as encompassing one's external expressions, including appearance. The idea that our outward expressions should align with our internal devotion is not mutually exclusive to the deeper spiritual transformation Paul advocates for in this passage.

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Please, just this night, I tried turning off my generator but instead of shutting down, it kept on running and I could see sparks and dark fumes coming from the exhaust with a little bit of gunshot sound.

My professors, what could be the issue?