₦airaland Forum

finofaya

What is consciousness?

finofaya

I said that God is neither proven nor disproved. Where did you see "can't"?

What is the difference between that and my statement?

I don't get. What is not what?

My point here is that there are several things we all believe in that we can't explain or prove. So, your statement that there is no evidence of God doesn't hold water

How do you know the bolded?

I told you, the Christian God as evidenced in the Bible

Does it matter to God what he is or does it not? And do you agree that God might be evil?

Of course it matters - it matters what He says, what He does, what He said He will do etc. Depending on how you define evil - I believe God is supreme

Any issue that involves looking deep into the nature of God. Eg the issue of freewill v omniscience/omnipotence. They have an answer to any such issue, which is usually nothing more than "just take it on faith".

You want the freewill and ominiscience/omnipotence aspect of God to be proven in a lab?

They have done so in the past. They still do so in some parts of the world. Muslims too. Besides there are means of coercion other than outright violence, eg open or subtle disapproval/contempt.

I was careful to confine my statement to Christendom only and didn't mention any other faiths. I am interested in you showing me in the Bible where the Christian God teaches the subjugation of non-believers because they don't believe in Him and as a result, Christians are taught to do the same today? Your subtle disapproval/contempt statement is relative; it is common everywhere, whether in religion or amongst atheist. I am sure you would disapprove if your son was an acute alcoholic and a murderer.

You think the Invisible Pink Unicorn is unreasonable, don't you?

I am not saying it's unreasonable - my stance is simple: Alot of people claim they are God, we have a place for them - the mental hospital. The claim of God has to pass several tests. If you were raising the dead, healing the sick, curing world hunger, and performing outstanding meta-physical events - I probably will take you pretty serious

For most people, the most potent reason why they dislike, say, homosexuality is religious in nature. Would you then say homosexuals are not being compelled to conform to the religious notions of others when being gay is frowned upon and even criminalized?

Again, I can't speak of most people nor their faith; I can give you my concept of God as I understand it. The issue with homosexuals is that they want to flaunt it and everyone should accept it. For me, it has no little religious bearing - I can't see how two men can give birth to a child. Also, the claim that homosexuals are born like that hasn't been proven scientifically. So, if you prefer a mans ass to that of a woman; that is your cup of tea. I think they have the right to live and love.

Kay17:
So you accept God is nothing?

That is not my statement or stand. My point is simple, if you can't define something or someone; you can't claim that they don't exist. For example; can you tell me what is energy?

Seun

If there were references to Orunmila, Sango and Obatala in the our national anthem, pledge, constitution, etc, wouldn't you want to have them removed? As a Christian, you would not want your children to have to recite an anthem or pledge that refers to gods or Gods that you don't believe in. That's the same way that Atheists in the US feel about having references to God in their national anthems, etc. However, most atheists don't even care about these things. The people who fight these battles are militant atheists. Most atheists are mellow.

It's interesting you mentioned militant atheists - they are on the rise in the US. Do you know how hard it is to get a scientific grant or to have your research published if you believe in "God" in the US? The attacks are indirect and under the radar. You are made fun off if you are a Christian and it's very difficult in the universities in the US.

There are standards in nearly everything we do. Sango being on the pledge, national anthem doesn't harm me and make me any less a human being; it doesn't affect the food I eat or the water I drink. The issue here is the issue of opinions; having an opinion shouldn't be the axe to change traditions that uploads society for hundreds of years. So, what happens if it's popular opinion to say some believe in aliens 10 years from now; should we put that in the constitution and in our national anthem as well? Or should the church remove the cross because it offends others?

It is wrong to suspend a student just for reading his bible during break. Most atheists would gladly defend this boy's right to read any book that he feels like reading during break. But according to the school authorities, that is not what the boy was actually suspended for. "But a spokeswoman for the Grossmont Union High School District — the district named in the suit — contends there’s much more to the story. She couldn’t elaborate, however, to KGTV because of federal privacy laws.

Oh please - http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/persecution-of-christians-on-rise-in-u-s/

Let's say that there are 100 religions in the world. As a Christian, you believe in one religion but you don't believe in the other 99. That makes you a believer in one religion and an atheist to the 99 others. You don't believe in Islam? Me too. You don't believe in Zeus? Me too. You don't believe in the Lord of Light? me too! You don't believe in Ifa? Me too! You have more in common with atheists than you realise.

What is religion if it's not in belief of ideas and ideals. For example, Jainism, which holds that every living thing is sacred because it is alive doesn't believe in a god or gods yet it is considered a religion. So, atheism is not mutually exclusive as it has it's own ideals, ideas and core beliefs. So, the reality of what is commonly called "atheism" has much in common with the reality of what is commonly called "religion"

Kay17:
I will prove that God has no actual identity, that it is no one at all. That it is an empty term without an idea. An abstract without meaning nor basis.

I am sure you believe in several things that have no identity - will you say they are abstract without meaning or basis?

finofaya

Anybody that believes that God exists should have tenable reasons for holding such a belief. If he wants me to share his belief, he has to share such tenable reasons with me.

There are several reasons; the discussion will be if you consider them tenable or not . I am willing to employ simple logic and reasoning to engage you.

Any means of proof that is accepted as sufficient for other matters. It could be direct evidence or even by an argument.

Okay, let me first ask you a question - What is consciousness?

Seun

While this describes most of the atheists who are active on this section, most atheists are not like that. Most atheists just ignore religious issues.

Actually no. The new age atheism is becoming more challenging, condescending and even in some cases are calling for religious freedoms to be taken away. For example, atheist Lawrence M. Krauss suggested that the laws of the US and other Western countries consider child abuse if children are taught about God or religion by their parents

Which God specifically? The Christian God? The Muslim God? African gods and goddesses? The Lord of Light from Game of Thrones? If you believe that there's only one God, then you are an atheist relative to all other Gods/gods and the same questions apply to you too. Does the fact that you don't believe in the Lord of Light or Allah for whatever reason rule out the possibility of their existence and power or influence?

Let's flip it around and give you a simpler example - The challenge of different answers to a particular issue is not unique to the topic of religion. For example, you can sit 100 math students down, give them a complex problem to solve, and it is likely that many will get the answer wrong. But does this mean that a correct answer does not exist? Not at all. Those who get the answer wrong simply need to be shown their error and know the techniques necessary to arrive at the correct answer.

How do we arrive at the truth about God? We use a systematic methodology that is designed to separate truth from error by using various tests for truth, with the end result being a set of right conclusions. Can you imagine the end results a scientist would arrive at if he went into the lab and just started mixing things together with no rhyme or reason? Or if a physician just started treating a patient with random medicines in the hope of making him well? Neither the scientist nor the physician takes this approach; instead, they use systematic methods that are methodical, logical, evidential, and proven to yield the right end result.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is worth spending time on. It's "possible" that father Xmas is real and lives in the north pole, but if you met an adult who truly believed that Father Xmas is real and sent 10% or his/her income to the north pole, what would you say?

Agreed. However, we can trace with relative certainty if "Father Xmas" is an actual person and if he lived at the north pole or not.

Atheists in some countries fight against the imposition of religious practices on people who don't believe in the religions. That's all they fight.

That is not an accurate statement. Some atheists have called for the banning and burning of all religious materials; that is more of a violent fight than an intellectual one. Look at what happen with Stalin and Pol Pot - a lot of dead bodies and a lot of Christians were in the dead

finofaya

God is unproven. He is also not disproved. However, the current absence of evidence for his existence is exactly what would be obtainable if he did not exist. You are therefore entitled to act as if he did not exist.

You have contradicted yourself - you are saying God can't be proven yet He can be proven. The issue here is your criteria of proving God.

Religion involves acting as if an unproven God does exist. Being unproven, God is no more than a hypothesis, at best he can be a theory. A theory is something we can jettison if we find another better theory to replace it or if we find that the evidence does not support it.

Actually it is not. There are several things we all humans believe in that can't be proven nor do we have an idea what they are.

In most religions (including christianity and islam), it is never found that the evidence does not support God, instead God is redefined to accommodate the evidence. For example, God is said to be all powerful and all good but when presented with the problem of evil, especially gratuitous evil, God is implied to lack some degree of control over evil while at the same time no concession is made as to his omnipotence, or he is implied to be imcompletely good and at the same time completely good.

Another misunderstanding of the idea of God at least as He is portrayed in Christendom. God is a God of ordinance and principles; He is not arbitrary. For example, the sun will shine even if it will cause drought and all your crops will die. Will some view that as evil; most likely; does that make God any less God than He is - No!

This is where the gullibility comes in, as one who has been shown that A is not B insists that A must be B. Usually, the motive for insisting that A is B, or for example that God is completely good, is a selfish one. The person wishes God to be good because a good God favours him. To God himself, if any, what is it to him that he is not good? It does not add to or take away anything from him. In a world of joy and suffering therefore, what is the basis of insisting that God is completely good?

There are several attributes of God, depending on the circumstances and the person; we can view God as good, completely good or bad. As a judge that passes judgement on a wrong-doer; God might be classified as bad. To the person receiving the good end of the judgement; God is considered good.

Religious people tend to refuse to think such issues through, instead preferring to assume that God is one who likes anything they like. The unquestioning assumption about the nature of God makes them prone to being manipulated or to believe other incredible things.

Really? Can you be more specific on such issues?

Believing that God exists is one thing and of itself it is not a problem. It becomes a problem when one believes that the God needs him to act in a certain way and that every other person should act in that same way. There is no telling what the God might require of his believers, and knowing that the followers are very likely to obey whatever instructions they receive from him without question since they believe it to be the truth, it is dangerous to allow people to insist on global acceptance of the instructions of any God.

This is another assumption. Again, I will use the Christian God as an example. The Christian God does make it clear what He expects of His adherents so there are no arbitrary claims. These laws and expectations were directed at specific people i.e. the 10 commandments of the law of God was directed at the Jewish people - Christians do not force anyone to believe in these laws.

Maybe you think your God is reasonable, but what about every other persons God? This unreliability in religion is what is sought to be shown by religions such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Good luck disproving their God.

If the "Invisible Pink Unicorn" can raise the dead, heal the sick and atheists can play with the evidence under their micro-scope; I am sure it will not be a hard task to take this "god" seriously

This is why religion, or at least the insistence on everybody obeying the instructions of any God, should not be accepted.

It's a choice mate; you are not being compelled to believe if you don't want to. However, do not fault others that want to believe.

Pr0ton:
Apostle Peter claims

" He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips . "


Apocryphal, right?

Gonna leave Enoch (His own is not very convincing, I guess)

The problem ...

" Now when the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven by a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. " 2 ^nd Kings 2:1

" And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven " 2 ^nd Kings 2:11



But the Omniscient Jesus ...

" And no man has ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven John 3:13


Apart from the lie Jesus told here, I can't imagine the absurdity in His words. He was on earth speaking with Nicodemus yet said "the Son of man who is in heaven" Maybe a confession afterall

Islamic and other secular critics usually post this question. I believe someone else has already provided this link. Read it for your response:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_ascension.htm

Most importantly, you need to do more Biblical research and study to understand the term "Son of Man"

donstevico:
so I just thought I should post this to the religious section because most people feel that sex after the white wedding is the right thing.what is wrong with having sex with your bride after the traditional wedding? is it right for a Christian to do so?

If the law of the land views traditional wedding as legal; you and your partner can consummate your marriage without any negative feelings. The church wedding or white wedding is a ceremony; if it is performed by a pastor or reverend that doesn't have the authority to wed you guys; it is not a valid marriage. So, do some research on what is legal and what is not legal. The church or mosque plays the religious and moral part, the traditional wedding is to play the tradition and family part. However, if they are all not legal, they are all invalid

Empiree

Please help yourself pal.......Islam Is Easy, Easy To Understand The Basics, Islam Conveniently And Clearly Defines God, The Creator From His Creation. This Makes The Religion Of Islam Unique. As For Designated Statements Before Entering Islam For Muslim Section, I Do Not Blame Mod. Non-Muslims Have Been So Ridiculous In The Section.

Op, if you are seriously seeking the truth, you can easily pick up free copy of Quran translation and READ. Turn away from bigots.

I won't deviate from the topic that I raised. Although I must say it's hard to argue with ignorant s that have little history on their own religion. If I want to learn Islam, I don't have to do it from youtube - I have the Quran and Sunnah of Mohammad.

This post is to show proof that Jesus was a Muslim and we have a Muslim who is claiming that we are all born Muslims . That is his proof. We have another one telling me to read the Quran to understand yet both haven't answered the question using either the Quran or Hadiths to prove Jesus was a Muslim. It is truly pathetic!

gatiano:
and none of what i wrote is irrelevant if you understand. you can't understand christianity or Islam without the concrete knowledge of the past.

You seem to be ignorant of history. To claim we are born Muslims and don't even know it is the hall-mark of denial and shows the level of understanding you have about the subject. I keep asking you, which Jesus are you referring to - the one in the Bible or the one in the Quran?

gatiano:
nobody becomes a muslim, everybody is born a muslim. then they deviated from the path of righteousness. so one must be bornagain to get back on the path (muslim) or get upright again on the path back to been a muslim.

So, pope John Paul was born a Muslim? Sister Theresa was born a Muslim? Even though they are devout Catholics and died Catholics?

What about Michael Jackson, he was born a Muslim right?

Even I don't even know it - I am a Muslim even though I don't believe in Allah - incredible

gatiano:
really? they been hindus and buddist for 35000 years from 78 trillion years of been a muslim.

So, from 35000 years to 78 trillion years - OUTSTANDING. In which year did Allah create Adam?

gatiano:
yes they don't, its been like that for quite sometime, 35000 years.

Then your statement that everyone is a Muslim is false

gatiano

Before a person begins to understand Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Muhammad and other Prophets, that person must first and very importantly know the knowledge of self, the knowledge of the reality of GOD, and the knowledge of the devil. without this the understanding of the scripture of GOD will be fruitless.

Irrelevant

Have you ever wondered why the blackman lags behind the other races? some many blame the govt of corruption, yes they are but that is not it because the black leaders are infact less corrupt than the other races (they are not smart enough). Some people blame it on the the people, yes. but that is really not the problem, how can a people build a civilization without knowledge of self. The real problem with the blackman is that he is lost, if you are a blackman, you know within yourself that we are a lost people, but who can or is been found. what is lost? lost can be refered to as ruined, destroyed, not existing, killed, dead. And need to be raised, ressurected or restored.

Irrelevant to the post at hand

So we are a people that have lost knowledge of self especially the black brothers and sisters in the americas.
the indians, the koreans, the japanese, the chinese, the arabs, the caucasians, the singaporeans and all others knows more than 90% who they are, who there parents and great grand parents were up to 6000 years ago. some facts they hide cos it is embarassing, some they boost of and some they lie about to increasing their supremacy over the other. The funniest thing is that they all know the blackman's history to as far back as 6000 years ago but will never reveal it to the blackman except when GOD himself came to reveal it to us.

Bros, stop talking off topic. Please address the question on how Jesus is a Muslim by providing historical proof

so no matter how much is given to the blackman, he will never develop until he knows the true knowledge of himself and all the other races. once you know it, the bible and the quran becomes clear and understandable, you would understand who all the prophets were without making any difference or comparing their works, for they all had different missions given to each of them by GOD.

We are not talking about black-men

So who is this blackman (the original man)? He is the maker and cream of the planet earth, The God of the universe. and he is Asiatic, for the whole earth was called Asia, thus in revelations, (the seven churches of Asia).

Irrelevant

The blackman's nature is righteousness, and he submits to the will of the Creator of the heavens and the earth (who is also a Blackman). The blackman is a Muslim. in the book of Acts 17:26. it says from one blood came all nations (races). and further down the same chapter, it shows man as offsprings the GOD.so all nations are muslims , only they refuse to want to bow to a blackman(my own words). so how can one really love GOD if he/she does not like black people.

Mohammad was never black Bros - go and read your history

Who is GOD? GOD is a SUPREME MAN. That is the difference between man and GOD. GOD is Supreme (most high in the knowledge of everything). GOD is not a spirit (spirit is from a greek word or latin spiritus which mean air), if GOD is air, and he creates man in his image, evidently man will be air too.

Can you show me in the Quran where it says God is a man?

Who is devil? the devil is one crafted out of the original, after which an idea is placed in his mind which makes him a devil. devil is also a man, his father the satan also a man.

You have ignored my original question and keep going around in circles? What makes one a Muslim? How does someone become a Muslim

gatiano

First of all, the Quran and the muslims refer to GOD by His original name "ALLAH"

Allah had been used in pre-Islamic Arabia for centuries to refer to an idol - are you suggesting this Allah is God Almighty?

How can Muhammad be different if he got his scriptures like the other two before him? Torah (old testament) was revealled to Moses which is the book of law
The Gospel- revealed to Jesus (book of love)
The Quran- revealed to Muhammad (book of duty),
most of the world would generally hate Quran because the simply love to do the talk and never love the duty (responsibility).

The Torah was given to Moses and the Jews; we have copies of it today. The injeel or gospel was given to Christians by Jesus and the Christians have their Bible to prove it. So, is this the same Torah and Gospel you are referring to?

to those who are familiar to the making of the scripture and the timing nature of the earth, they would understand that all of the prophets including Jesus had been prophesized to come thousands of years before they were born, even the revelations in the scriptures was before the coming of the prophets.

It is in the Bible and Torah that the messiah i.e. Jesus would come; there is no doubt about that.

And if you really know Jesus this much, how come you or we people don't make easter properly. he died on a friday afternoon/evening, he would have rosed up on a monday evening. but our easter is on sunday morning.

You must have me confuse with someone else? Have you seen me celebrate Easter before?

when did Joseph and mary told anyone of his birth date, if king herold wanted the baby dead so badly that they had to keep his birth a secret. it is cold for a meager to be on a december in the end of december in Jerusalem.

What has this got to do with Jesus been a Muslim

in conclusion, The muslims regard and respect Jesus far better than any christian will ever be.

Really, can you tell me which Jesus you are referring to? The one as described in the Quran or the one as described in the Bible?

gatiano:
somebody Quoted me Isaiah 14:12.

It wasn't me - read carefully next time

gatiano:
if you are a buddist or a hindu especially a person with a full black to brown eye, you are a muslim, if a buddist or hindu believe in GOD the creator of the heavens and the earth, he is a muslim. if not, he is still a muslim but in rebellion. how. they are all made or create in the earth surounded by seas and forest and all. all GOD creation submits to HIM, no questions asked. so if one is made of this world, then he is automatically a muslim. he may be weak enough to deviate or rebel. the whiteman outrightly rebels against the will of GOD. if GOD says right, the whiteman will say left intentionally.

Buddist and Hindu doesn't believe in God. Hindu's have over 360 million different gods so how can they be Muslims. They don't believe in Mohammad or Allah, how does that make them Muslim?

gatiano:
like i said, if anyone submits to the will of ALLAH/GOD, That person is a Muslim. If one is a true christian, and follow in Jesus step or Jesus disciple (one who is discipline in the instruction of Jesus) is a Muslim.

You are still avoiding my question - the Jesus you are referring to is different from the Jesus of history. So, we knew Jesus was a Jew; historical records confirm that He lived and was crucified. Is this the same Jesus you are referring to?

gatiano

there was no irrelevance, you quote some verses, i explained what they mean pointing out who the lucifers/ devils are.

What verse did I quote?

A muslim is one who submit entirely to the will of ALLAH, and A Muslim serves or worship no other but ALLAH

.

I didn't ask who is a Muslim, I asked what makes you a Muslim? How does one convert from another religion to Islam? What does one have to do?

gatiano

Abraham rejoiced at the coming of Jesus as it was prophesized, so was Moses, so was Muhammad and so was Elijah. all of these prophets of GOD were before Abraham who was a prophet of GOD too. you will need higher knowledge to understand this which is not a rocket science.

The only difference is that Mohammad is the odd one out. All the prophets you mentioned share common Jewish lineage except Mohammad

Jesus obeyed GOD, and submitted to the will of GOD (a muslim), he was a very brilliant Man. don't be deceived by the devil when the devil made it look like Jesus turned water into wine by miracle (from the word mirage) which only means tricks or magic, how else will he have done that if not through a very good knowledge of chemistry, how would he have fed 5000 people with just two pieces of fish and five loaves of bread? that mean he fed a whole lot of people with a little. community planning. where would he have gotten all these superior wisdom if not from GOD. so was the other prophets, they were all exceedingly brilliant men. so Jesus knowledge is one with is father/master/creator (GOD). So when one does not follows the way (which is the road to rigteousness), the truth (the truth of GOD's word) and the Life (the kind of life Jesus lived) that Jesus taught, then there is no way to the GOD, and no way to GOD means death. both physical, mental and spiritual.

The God as described in the Quran (which Muslims believe in by the way) and the God Jesus spoke about from history are two different Gods. Again, you talk empty and have produced no historical references on this "Jesus" you are talking about.

HARTZIV:
yes jesus was a muslim and the prophet mohammed worked for the CIA

Now, this is a good one

gatiano

You seek talk, now you have found yourself some. An i'm happy to explain according to my knowledge which i KNOW is the truth. Of what good is it to you if you lack the truth. The greatest fall of a man is when he has lost completely the knowledge of self and his GOD, how then can he fight or handle his adverseries who seeks to kill him every seconds of everyday (when i mean kill, kill by gun or by a knife stab is a mercy, but killing one's soul and mind is the greatest kill).

Irrelevant to the topic at hand

Men most especially the blackmen and women all over the world love and wish that all men are same and are equal before GOD. Well, maybe true, the blackman believes that so the whiteman would stop whooping his behind and the blackman craves the whiteman's love and companion so much so that he the blackman will go to the extent of killing another blackman (people) just to convince the whiteman his master but he will admit to it outwardly.

Again, irrelevant

The blackman is different, and the whiteman is different. the whiteman is simply the image of the blackman, made out of the blackman. the blackman is the ancient of days (78 trillion years) created by GOD. The blackman made the whiteman out of himself and then gave him dominion over all things on all the corners of the earth and heavens(outside the earth atmosphere) was openned to them just to see GOD's wonder, all for a period of time which is 6 days (6 thousand years). The blackman did this rebelling against GOD, but with GOD's permission (cos that was not the first time the blackman rebelled against GOD'S will through lack of patience.

Another irrelevance

so what is this man made by the blackman called? He is called the devil. Isaiah 14. speaks of the fall of the devil. who shaked the kingdoms of the earth? the indian, chinese, japanese or blackman? no its europeans. who makes evil fair seeming? africans, chinese? it is the caucasian that says homosexual is nice and should not be frown on.

Another irrelevance

who say he will sit in heaven with GOD and be like GOD? obviously not the overly religious african. the europeans. and to end, this is a 40 seconds prove!

So, your historical proof is from youtube that started several years ago? Cha!

who does the devil hate most? He loves christians (the foolish ones), he loves muslims (the ones praying to Muhammad), he hates upright christians and the born again christian, He so much hates Muhammad because Muhammad sent them backwards or held them back by 1000 years, They hate muslims that follows Muhammad teachings (capable of holding them back at any given time) and they hate most especially the blackman (original man, muslims). they will never love a blackman, that to them is exceedingly dangerous.

Another irrelevance

The question is how do you prove Jesus was a Muslim. I have asked you several times - what makes one a Muslim?

gatiano:
Islam has been for 78 trillion years since Man can record. but in actual facts from GOD, it had no birth date or will it have an end. Muhammad was GOD'S prophet and messenger and most importantly a reminder to people of GOD'S religion "ISLAM". Jesus also GOD'S prophet and messenger never did say he was a christian, he preached the submission to the will of GOD. we know Islam is the submission to the will of GOD. what is Christianity?

confused? i used to be confused when i thought Jesus create christianity or Muhammad create Islam. Now that i know the truth, i am far trillions of miles away from been confused. you should seek the real truth of the life of Jesus Christ, it librates the soul forever from bondage.

So, what's makes you a Muslim? If we are all Muslims and we don't know it; why then is it in Islamic traditions to kill a Muslim that decides to change his religion? It doesn't make sense to change from being a Muslim to been a "Muslim" again.

You have not supported your stance with any reference from Islamic traditions or teachings. By your logic, the POPE is a Muslim only that he doesn't know it. How deluded!

SLIDEwaxie:
are we talking abt the same islam that started with mohammed abi another one that stared many many years after the christian faith has been established?

Or, maybe the one that agrees with almost everything in the bible except that it changes the names, eg, abraham/ibrahim, musa/moses and so on, and yet claims the bible aint real?

maybe u are confused, maybe u are not..who cares. Face ur religion make iwe face ours abeg!

Abeg, ask him again Bros

gatiano:
Islam has being before the creation of the heavens and the earth. Everything GOD creates obey and submit to the will of GOD. Anybody that submit to the will of GOD, and obeys the will and the instruction of GOD, is a Muslim. Islam is the submission to the will of ALLAH (GOD).

When a man spills his sperms in the darkness of a woman's ovum, the sperms obeys and submit to the will of GOD and they do what they are commanded to do with the eggs of the woman who also submits to the will of GOD.

so we can easily say, that we all are Muslims before we were born, before we came into existence. We can all try hard to fight and argue it, 1+1=2.

So, even if I am a buddist monk I am automatically a muslim? Even if I was morn a hindu; I am automatically a muslim?

kay29000:
Jesus had no religion while on earth. In fact, the Abrahamic religious people didnt agree with his teachings and saw him as a heretic. Chrisrianity was born after his death.


Jesus was not a Muslim cos there was nothing like Islam religion during his Time on Earth. Islam greatly borrows from the literature of the christian religion, maybe that's where those people got things mixed up that Jesus was a muslim.

Thanks for your insight man, well appreciated

gatiano:
Yse, Jesus is or was a Muslim brother. The bornagain christians and the upright black christians are Muslims.

Care you explain how?

acenazt:
no ohhh Jesus wasn't Muslim nor was he a Christian. he was A JEW. it was after he died that Christianity came to being.

You hit the nail on the head

I wanted to respond to a thread I saw where our Muslims brother were claiming Jesus was a Muslim; unfortunately I couldn't because to respond to a thread on the Islamic section - you have to agree that you are a Muslim . Incredibly isn't it.

So, can anyone explain to me how Jesus was a Muslim - also, please back it up with examples

miftaudeen: Scientific implications in the part of the ayah that can be translated as, “He creates you …creation after creation in three veils of darkness.”(Surat Az-Zumar (The Groups): 06):

The fetus is surrounded inside the uterus by several membranes. From the inner to the outer membrane, these are: The amion membrane, the chorion membrane and the decidua membrane. These three membranes completely enclose the fetus and therefore keep it in complete darkness; this is the first darkness. The three membranes of the fetus are themselves surrounded by the walls of the uterus, which is a thick wall made up of three layers; forming the second complete darkness surround the fetus and its membranes. The uterus, which contains the fetus and its membranes and surrounds it in two consecutive darkness’s, is itself found in the middle of the pelvis. The uterus is in turn fully surrounded by the body that is composed of the abdomen and the back. Both of the abdomen and back provide the third darkness in which the fetus lies. This is in agreement with what Allah (SWT) says; which can be translated as, “He creates you in the wombs of your mothers: creation after creation in three veils of darkness.” (Surat Az-Zumar (The Groups):06).

At the time of the revelation of the Qur’an and for many long centuries after, no one knew of these three veils of darkness. The precedence of the Glorious Qur’an in referring to them proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Glorious Qur’an is indeed the words of Allah (SWT), the Creator, Who revealed it with His knowledge to the Seal of His Prophets and protected it, as He promised, in the same language of its revelation (the Arabic language). In order to remain as evidence against people until the Day of Judgment, however most people do not know or do not comprehend.

How is all this scientific Bros?