₦airaland Forum

I have so many to say about this topic but first:

Once you recieve your pay,set aside your tithe first before spending the remaining.By so doing, God will rebuke the devourer for your sake and your relative will not be needing that money afterall.

Is this how the Bible teaches to pay Tithe even in the old testament? I thought the Deut 14:22 -29 teaches to bring in Tithe every year.

I'm saying this for those who still lives the old laws, at the end of the day, it's down to what you believe, pay your Tithe and watch your Relative die , whether it's wrong or not, you'll answer to this on the day of judgement.

And for those who lives the new laws , new orders as stated in Heb 7 that the old law has been set aside , please save a life, even God will be happy you did.

If you do these things unto any of the least one of you, you've done it to me. Why not save a soul first, then borrow money to pay your TITHE later?

If you believe in Tithe because it's part of the old laws (Mal 3), please pay TITHE according to same old law(Deut 14).

For those who think they're cursed or disobedient for not paying TITHE, I've got a question for you: Since The Bible never recorded Christ paid TITHE in his ministry, can you now say Christ is Cursed? unimaginable! can you now say that Paul, Peter, James, John, Matt, Tim, and all the early Christians in Corinths, Rome, Ephesus, Galatians are all cursed? unimaginable! We believe the Bible is complete right? so we believe if they didn't pay Tithe, they are cursed right? unimaginable!

It's unimaginable and highly ridiculous hearing some comments from people who are supposed to be Christians and not Sadducees, people who are supposed to be followers of Christ and not Pharisees, before who are supposed to live their lives based on new orders and not the old orders, people who are meant to be Christ-like and not JEWS! or ISREALITES!

Just a thought.

@debosky

Lets be reasonable here - why would honoring God's commandment not be 'reasonable' and paying rent would be? I do not regard tithes as something you can include in other expenses or in financial calculations (apart from paying your taxes of course). Suspension of tithing achieves little in my opinion - if a mere 10% of your income can be sufficient to clear your debts, I'm sure there are other areas you can cut back on to achieve that.

I believe you understand what TITHE is, How to Pay Tithe (Deut 14), why was it instituted in the Mosaic Laws, and the rebuke unto the House of Jacob in Malachi for people robbing God. Also, I believe you know that Christ mentioned it only while he was addressing the Pharisee , are you now a Pharisee who fulfils the LAWs while Chirst was Alive? When Christ Died, did he fulfil some of the 613 laws or all of them , if you said NO, then why don't you offer goats and rams unto God as of old? Afterall God gave the Isrealites this commandments and explained unto Moses how to design the Alter and who is allowed unto the prescence of God.

Check out my response on one of the Articles written by @KunleOsho; Like we've all been saying, TITHE is a type of GIVING, and it's not WRONG, only that it's NOT COMPULSORY

I know you understand what Tithe is, you should know it's definately not money, becuase people earn money those days and still don't "pay" money. Christ was a Carpenter, but he didn't pay TITHE. I'm also trying to get my head round the fact of why Christ never paid tithe, and why the early Christians never did; at least there was no record in the Bible they did. Only that Christ mentioned Pharisees which were doing the Mosaic Laws deligently, and Christ was like: (Matt 23:23)
"It was right to do these, and not to have leftthose aside." GLT;
"These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. " CEV;
"You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. " NLT; - Could it be that Christ was trying to say ,  TITHING is not the issue although commendable, but the ISSUE and the REQUIRED THING were in the MORE IMPORTANT THINGS.
"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but on the meat of God's Law, things like fairness and compassion and commitment--the absolute basics!-you carelessly take it or leave it. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. " THE MESSAGE

Let me pause here ,  Christ actually said Careful Bookkeeping is Commendable, not that it's REQUIRED ie. COMPULSORY ,  only the BASICS(in another version, the weigthier things of the LAW) are REQUIRED.

Also, I feel TITHING was commendable because it was part of the 613 Mosaic laws and Christ was very careful not to abolish the Laws in his days, However, he did engage some of the ridiculous ones. But after his Death, after he paid the price (once and for all) the Laws, a New ORDER (Testimony) came into force. Heb 7:18 said the former laws were set aside! No WONDER the early Christians never paid TITHE (whether 500 years after Christ's Death or Not); there is no record in the Bible that they did.

Having said all these, not only Christ but also the early Apostles preached about giving:

2 Cor 9: 6-7
6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

There are other plenty verses after the Death of Christ where Giving unto the needy was mostly stressed. I'm still digging to find where "TITHING" equate the so much COMPULSION it enjoys today. Even Christ himself taught about giving as in Thanksgiving and Offering, Christ after healing a man with leprosy in Luke 5:12, in verse 14, Christ himself gave charge:
"And He charged him to tell no one, "But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as a testimony to them, just as Moses commanded."
The word OFFERING here comes from the greek Prosphero, and it means "to bring a present or a thing, to reach or hand a thing to one"

In a nutshell, If you TITHE, Thank God for you ,  But some believe Christ died once and for all the former laws. I mean, the Bible even said this in Heb 7, check out verse 18 ,  so, if you still think the TITHE is a commendable adaptation of the old ORDER, that's fine ,  afterall, EVERYONE with their own Faith and Believe, isn't that What this Christianity is all about in the first place? But, WHAT I HATE MOST is well people tell me, You're Cursed if you don't pay TITHE, as in God will punish you, and raise all the bad experiences in life on you, if you don't pay TITHE as you believed from the NEW ORDERS that Christ as paid for all those things ,  ONCE AND FOR ALL

If you pay TiTHE, please continue, as long as you believe in it
If you don't pay TITHE, please you're not CURSED

According to Christ himself, TITHE is commendable (as part of the Law before his death); BUT ONLY THE WEIGHTIER THINGS OF THE LAW ARE REQUIRED! & Ofcourse we all know Tithing is not part of the Weigthier parts of the Law.

Now I've been speaking  all along from Malachi just to establish what I think of it. If I now move away from Malachi back to Deut 14, it was established of what TITHE is and how to pay it in Deut, no Controversy about that. Also the old testament established TITHE as part of the MOSAIC LAWS ,  I think there are over 500 of those laws.

Also quickly zooming into New Testament, Jesus did mention TITHE in the context of telling the Pharisees that it's not the COMPULSORY THING, in Christ's own words ,  "It's commendable"; but the Much more important things are REQUIRED!

Obviously Christ was still alive then, and the some of the Laws were still being upheld, actually, he did challenged some, I wonder how long he would have taken him to challenge every of those 613 laws. But those aren't the reason why he came ,  "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" God kind of Life.

But after his death, I believed all was fulfilled ,  the LAW, the Mosaic Law I believe is a mirage of the NEW ORDER  that came after Christ's Death. Heb 7 explained this, these are not my words ,  verse 12: For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

AND verse 18 more clearly: 18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Having said all these, Christ's ministry never taught on TITHING AND HOW TO DO IT OR IF IT WAS REQUIRED OR COMPULSORY, neither did the Apostles; even it was discovered that 500 years after his Death, the Christians didn't pay this TITHE, ok maybe you don't want to believe that statement. But I believe you believe the Bible which never recorded early Christians paying TITHE after the DEATH of CHRIST.

So, the BIG Question is, when and how and why DID TITHE CREEP INTO HIS CHURCH with SUCH COMPULSION AND REQUIREMENT TO BEING A CHRISTIAN. If it's NOT COMPULSORY For the EARLY CHRISTIANS, WHY IS IT TODAY? WHY DIDN't the EARLY CHRISTIANS get CURSED, or why wasn't it RECORDED THAT THEY ARE CURSED? or WHY wasn't it RECORDED THAT THEY PAY TITHE or were TAUGHT TO? WHY DID WE HAVE ACCOUNTS OF OFFERING AND THANKSGIVING Taught and Encouraged to the CHURCH by CHRIST, and WHY HE NEVER DID ENCOURAGE THOSE HE HEALED TO PAY TITHE? HE ACTUALLY ASKED THEM TO DO OFFERING, WHY WHY WHY!!!!

TITHING IS GOOD IF YOU GIVE IT
BUT IT's NOT A REQUIREMENT AND COMPULSION
IF IT IS THANKSGIVING, GIVE
IF IT IS TITHE, GIVE
IF IT IS OFFERING, GIVE
IF YOU CAN DO THE 3, FANTASTIC, but DO WILLINGLY
IF YOU CAN DO 2, GREAT, but DO WILLINGLY
IF YOU CAN DO 1, BEAUTIFUL, but DO WILLINGLY

God Loves a Cheerful Giver, and wants us to give willingly and not forcefully or with fear, ie. with fear that he's going to Curse us IF WE DON'T GIVE ONE of THOSE

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES, and HOLD ON TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE ,  The Truth is GOD will not PUNISH me if I DO 3 out of 3, or 2 out of 3, and God will noT PUNISH me if I DO 1 out of 3 ,  As long as there is food in the storehouse for pastors, needy, orphans, foreigners, widows to be fine with.

JUST GIVE FROM YOUR HEART ,  whatever you feel like or are happy with ,  DON'T LET ANYONE DEFRAUD OR BAMBOOZO YOU, God doesn't Need or EAT your Money , & will never curse you if you don't give him anything to NEED or EAT; the Poor in Spirit are the ones who do, the motherless babies, the widows, orphans, the needies, foreigners in our lands eg. the missionaries, the less privileged and ofcourse including our Pastors (Not Pastors who drive HUMMER JEEPS while workers in Church can't afford to pay rent in 8months)  ,  BUT DO THESE OUT OF LOVE, OUT OF FREE-WILL, NOT OUT OF FEAR!

GIVE AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO YOU, SOW and you shall REAP ,  these are Christ's Teachings not mine! Simple law of Harvests!

THE BIG QUESTION IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PARTICULAR POST IS: IF YOU'RE IN NEED, WHY NOT GO TO YOUR PASTOR FOR MONEY, WHY GO OUTSIDE THE CHURCH AND BORROW MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE? BECAUSE MY OWN BIBLE ENCOURAGES ME NOT TO OWE ANY MAN. IF YOU'RE IN NEED GO TO THE CHURCH, AFTERALL THAT'S WHY PEOPLE GIVE (either tithe, offering, or thanksgiving) EXCEPT IF YOU BELIEVE OFCOURSE, THAT YOU DON'T DESERVE ANY PART OF THE GOD'S STOREHOUSE.

Now I've been speaking  all along from Malachi just to establish what I think of it. If I now move away from Malachi back to Deut 14, it was established of what TITHE is and how to pay it in Deut, no Controversy about that. Also the old testament established TITHE as part of the MOSAIC LAWS ,  I think there are over 500 of those laws.

Also quickly zooming into New Testament, Jesus did mention TITHE in the context of telling the Pharisees that it's not the COMPULSORY THING, in Christ's own words ,  "It's commendable"; but the Much more important things are REQUIRED!

Obviously Christ was still alive then, and the some of the Laws were still being upheld, actually, he did challenged some, I wonder how long he would have taken him to challenge every of those 613 laws. But those aren't the reason why he came ,  "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" God kind of Life.

But after his death, I believed all was fulfilled ,  the LAW, the Mosaic Law I believe is a mirage of the NEW ORDER  that came after Christ's Death. Heb 7 explained this, these are not my words ,  verse 12: For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

AND verse 18 more clearly: 18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Having said all these, Christ's ministry never taught on TITHING AND HOW TO DO IT OR IF IT WAS REQUIRED OR COMPULSORY, neither did the Apostles; even it was discovered that 500 years after his Death, the Christians didn't pay this TITHE, ok maybe you don't want to believe that statement. But I believe you believe the Bible which never recorded early Christians paying TITHE after the DEATH of CHRIST.

So, the BIG Question is, when and how and why DID TITHE CREEP INTO HIS CHURCH with SUCH COMPULSION AND REQUIREMENT TO BEING A CHRISTIAN. If it's NOT COMPULSORY For the EARLY CHRISTIANS, WHY IS IT TODAY? WHY DIDN't the EARLY CHRISTIANS get CURSED, or why wasn't it RECORDED THAT THEY ARE CURSED? or WHY wasn't it RECORDED THAT THEY PAY TITHE or were TAUGHT TO? WHY DID WE HAVE ACCOUNTS OF OFFERING AND THANKSGIVING Taught and Encouraged to the CHURCH by CHRIST, and WHY HE NEVER DID ENCOURAGE THOSE HE HEALED TO PAY TITHE? HE ACTUALLY ASKED THEM TO DO OFFERING, WHY WHY WHY!!!!

TITHING IS GOOD IF YOU GIVE IT
BUT IT's NOT A REQUIREMENT AND COMPULSION
IF IT IS THANKSGIVING, GIVE
IF IT IS TITHE, GIVE
IF IT IS OFFERING, GIVE
IF YOU CAN DO THE 3, FANTASTIC, but DO WILLINGLY
IF YOU CAN DO 2, GREAT, but DO WILLINGLY
IF YOU CAN DO 1, BEAUTIFUL, but DO WILLINGLY

God Loves a Cheerful Giver, and wants us to give willingly and not forcefully or with fear, ie. with fear that he's going to Curse us IF WE DON'T GIVE ONE of THOSE

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES, and HOLD ON TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE ,  The Truth is GOD will not PUNISH me if I DO 3 out of 3, or 2 out of 3, and God will noT PUNISH me if I DO 1 out of 3 ,  As long as there is food in the storehouse for pastors, needy, orphans, foreigners, widows to be fine with.

JUST GIVE FROM YOUR HEART ,  whatever you feel like or are happy with ,  DON'T LET ANYONE DEFRAUD OR BAMBOOZO YOU, God doesn't Need or EAT your Money , & will never curse you if you don't give him anything to NEED or EAT; the Poor in Spirit are the ones who do, the motherless babies, the widows, orphans, the needies, foreigners in our lands eg. the missionaries, the less privileged and ofcourse including our Pastors (Not Pastors who drive HUMMER JEEPS while workers in Church can't afford to pay rent in 8months) , BUT DO THESE OUT OF LOVE, OUT OF FREE-WILL, NOT OUT OF FEAR!

GIVE AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO YOU, SOW and you shall REAP ,  these are Christ's Teachings not mine! Simple law of Harvests!

@anonimi
Allta,

Did you see my earlier response above? May I humbly suggest you read through Malachi completely. Let us all strive to be Bible scholars as we are enjoined to be.

Yes, I do, if I don't wanna be a Bible scholar, I wouldn't be pushing for more exposition. I am open to learning more and more, and have taken what you mentioned on board.

Acutally, I'm not 100% with KunleOsho, on everything. eg. I sincerely still strugle with the fact that Malachi wasn't written for all the House of Jacob.

This is because when Malachi started writing that book, he directed it at "Isreal" , the people, and in Chapter 2, he quickly spoke of the "(High) Priests" and then was chastising using Judah as example from verse 10 - 11. I believe from verse 13, Malachi refocused his letter at the poeple of Isreal, and started using "YOU", "YOU", "YOU" & "YOUR". This he carried onto Chapter 3 - which is one of the quoted Old Testament Scriptures in our days. Having said that, why wasn't this scripture , if so so REQUIRED, wasn't quoted like other scriptures were in the time of Christ and the early apostles?

Anyway, back to Malachi, if you examine the context of verse 1, He was actually speaking to some group of people (I believe the House of Jacob , Isrealites) and then he told them, that God will send his messenger which will prepare the way before him. He went on in verse two by saying, but who will endure the coming of the Lord? ofcourse KunleOsho can't say ths messenger is meant for only the levites or the priests. Because they were not the only ones "seeking" this Lord , this change from what they're seeing.

EVERYONE was seeking the Lord, and the messenger of the covenant they had desired, could it be that those messengers then does what they didn't desire? And Malachi went on saying, who will witstand the days of his coming. He even said, he who was to come (like fire and soap) will refine the Levites.

NOW STOP HERE!

The verse 3 to verse 5 actually supports what Kunle has been saying all day about Malachi 3:6-12; Before I start, notice I began by saying Malachi wrote for all Isrealites which includes the Priests, Levites, Judah and all Jerusalem.

BUT CHECK THIS OUT ,

Verse 3 says this messenger will REFINE the Levites, as in the you can only be REFINE if you're IMPURE right? it didn't say he who was coming was to REFINE ALL ISREAL

He Then said, after this REFINEMENT Process, the LORD will have men bring offerings in righteousness. And then the Offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the LORD, AS IN THE DAYS GONE BY, AS IN FORMER YEARS

Although literally, the OFFERINGS (with an S) that was being talked about here originated from the Hebrew word: "Minchah" literally meaning "gift, tribute, offering, present, oblation, sacrifice, meat offering, grain offering"; But notice the S at the end of these , mean many offerings or in other words all kinds of OFFERING.

BUT, just not to deviate, I've mentioned that "FROM MALACHI 3:3&4" that it was the LEVITES that needs refinement, right? Only then can all OFFERINGS be acceptable unto God. So, the question is, why do LEVITES need REFINEMENT and not Judah , even it was acclaimed in Chapter 2 that Judah was wayward, he did unbearable things , but then LEVITES are the ones to be REFINED by the coming messenger , in my opinion simple , BECAUSE LEVITES DOES SOME THINGS JUDAH CAN'T , TITHE & OFFERING COLLECTION. & They need to be REFINED from their bad ways of defrauding the labourers of their wages!

Check out Verse 5 (which is the leading verse to the most quoted old testament verse in 6): "Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts.

REMEMBER THAT I said, I believe Malachi was writtten concerning, as in to the Isrealites, but God had to mention he will send a messenger which they have desired, and that there will be purification of the Levites , only then will their OFFERINGS WILL be acceptable.

In verse 5, I believe this was still written concerning all Isreal, because I can't for once imagine that the Levites are also the sorcerers, that they are also the adulterers, that they swear falsely, BUT they could be those who Oppress the WAGE earner in his wages, right? remember I used the word COULD! ok, maybe they're widows, orphans, and they turn aside foreigners not to fear God , ACTUALLY, I don't see the priests or the LEVITES being all THESE. But I believe the bits which has to do with Oppress the wage earner in his wages refers to them not acruing unto the PRIESTS their dues. Why will I believe such , because of what was written in verse 3 about ONLY THE PURIFICATION OF LEVITES , and this is the ONLY THING WE KNOW OF LEVITES , THEY COLLECT TITHE AND OFFERING.

Ofcourse, I've only been writing in the CONTEXT of MALACHI as a BOOK WRITTEN UNTO ISREAL (from verse 1)

Now I believe, God verse 6 and 7 is written unto the whole Isreal, After reading this properly, I believe 8 and 9 is also written unto Isreal, "The whole Nation of YOU" can't 100% be referring to just a lineage, as in Family, A NATION is a collection of people, families, lineages who dwell in a region. But how did God asked them to make amends: verse 10, "BRING THE WHOLE TITHE INTO THE STOREHOUSE", WHY? , "SO THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN HIS HOUSE"; As long As there is FOOD in God's House, I believe that's all that matters in this context. Remember "People (whichever you interprete it)" were ROBBING GOD, not ONLY IN TITHES! but also OFFERINGS! verse 8b

NOW, Malachi continues to write using the "YOU" "YOU" "YOU", he has been doing this even after he chastised the Priests in the early verses of Malachi 2. NOW in verse 14 & 15, he used YOU again, and then say: "THE PEOPLE" he was referring to as "YOU" asked what have we done to you , and that "It is futile to serve God, What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD"?

NOW WaIT a second , assuming the YOU all along refers only to the levites, the big question, is why is it in verse 17 God said "In the day when I make up my treaseured possession, I will spare them , ie. those who serve God" A scroll of remembrance was signed concerning them in verse 16, and in verse 18 , God promised that when he takes up his treasured possession, "YOU will again see the distinction between the RIGTHEOUS and the WICKED, THOSE who serve God and THOSE WHO DON'T"

My view and understanding so far is that, the God couldn't have spared just the LEVITES, I believe he was referring to the Isrealites, the House of Jacob, when he was saying he will spare those WHO SERVE HIM, and THOSE WHO ARE RIGHTEOUS in Him.

So, in Conclusion, Malachi is written mostly concerning everyone, although he did chastised the Priests, and established the need for the PURIFICATION of the LEVITES before the sacrifice can be acceptable unto God. Malachi also in my own view, said the House of Jacob was robbing him of TITHES and OFFERINGS, not only TITHES! So, please only TITHE Shouldn't enjoy the so much COMPULSION.

@KunleOsho @nwando

Please, Please, Please, I've gone to study more and more of these passages. I've prayed but still no conviction that God will Curse me If I give into Offering and NOT tithe.

While I continue to pray and await the Spirit's conviction, could you please provide your own take on these:

- Could the "O you Sons of Jacob", in Malachi 3:6 possibly not be referring to all the house of Jacob and not the Levites/Priests to be specific. I know so many things have been said concerning this point here, but I still can't get that conviction that verse 6 wasn't contigous all the way to verse 9.

- Could it be possible that the "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." in Heb 7:12 be reffering to a "restructing" in the law ,  in that we now don't have to go through the Levites and Sons of Aaron to get our Tithes to God. Another Argument is that verse 12 simply means our Tithes now go directly to God, since Christ has died and broken the barrier between us and God. So, we don't have to go through the Aarons and Levites to offer our Tithe to God. Although verse 8 says setting aside of the former laws, could setting means alteration in the sense of the way our tithes go to God, ie. not through the Levites n Aarons anymore, ie. through the modern day pastors/churches.


I know understand what Tithe is, I know it's definately not money, becuase people earn them those days and still don't "pay" money. But, it will be nice if you can help discuss these points Bro. I'm also trying to get my head round the fact of why Christ never paid tithe, and why the early Christians never did; at least their was no record in the Bible they did. Only that Christ mentioned Pharisees which were doing the Mosaic Laws deligently, and Christ was like: (Matt 23:23)
"It was right to do these, and not to have leftthose aside." GLT;
"These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. " CEV;
"You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. " NLT; - Could it be that Christ was trying to say , TITHING is not the issue although commendable, but the ISSUE and the REQUIRED THING were in the MORE IMPORTANT THINGS.
"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but on the meat of God's Law, things like fairness and compassion and commitment--the absolute basics!-you carelessly take it or leave it. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. " THE MESSAGE

Let me pause here , Christ actually said Careful Bookkeeping is Commendable, not that it's REQUIRED ie. COMPULSORY , only the BASICS(in another version, the weigthier things of the LAW) are REQUIRED.

Also, I feel TITHING was commendable because it was part of the 613 Mosaic laws and Christ was very careful not to abolish the Laws in his days, However, he did engage some of the ridiculous ones. But after his Death, after he paid the price (once and for all) the Laws, a New ORDER (Testimony) came into force. Heb 7:18 said the former laws were set aside! No WONDER the early Christians never paid TITHE (whether 500 years after Christ's Death or Not); there is no record in the Bible that they did.

Having said all these, not only Christ but also the early Apostles preached about giving:

2 Cor 9: 6-7
6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

There are other plenty verses after the Death of Christ where Giving unto the needy was mostly stressed. I'm still digging to find where "TITHING" equate the so much COMPULSION it enjoys today. Even Christ himself taught about giving as in Thanksgiving and Offering, Christ after healing a man with leprosy in Luke 5:12, in verse 14, Christ himself gave charge:
"And He charged him to tell no one, "But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as a testimony to them, just as Moses commanded."
The word OFFERING here comes from the greek Prosphero, and it means "to bring a present or a thing, to reach or hand a thing to one"

In a nutshell, If you TITHE, Thank God for you , But some believe Christ died once and for all the former laws. I mean, the Bible even said this in Heb 7, check out verse 18 , so, if you still think the TITHE is a commendable adaptation of the old ORDER, that's fine , afterall, EVERYONE with their own Faith and Believe, isn't that What this Christianity is all about in the first place? But, WHAT I HATE MOST is well people tell me, You're Cursed if you don't pay TITHE, as in God will punish you, and raise all the bad experiences in life on you, if you don't pay TITHE as you believed from the NEW ORDERS that Christ as paid for all those things , ONCE AND FOR ALL

If you pay TiTHE, please continue, as long as you believe in it
If you don't pay TITHE, please you're not CURSED

According to Christ himself, TITHE is commendable (as part of the Law before his death); BUT ONLY THE WEIGHTIER THINGS OF THE LAW ARE REQUIRED! & Ofcourse we all know Tithing is not part of the Weigthier parts of the Law.

Cheers

Holland looking more likely and more sharper,

Spain/Portugal? Na , Spain looks more deadly

If possible I'll tip Holland Vs Spain Final, and Holland to win it.

Thanks for Kunle raising up Heb 7: 5 - 28 in the other flagged post

Check this out: Heb 7: 5 - 28

5And it is true that those descendants of Levi who are charged with the priestly office are commanded in the Law to take tithes from the people--which means, from their brethren--though these have descended from Abraham.
6But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].

8[b]Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death[/b]; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].
9A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes (the tenth), paid tithes through Abraham,

Also Levi paid Tithe because he was still part of Abraham when Melchizedek met Abraham.

10For he was still in the loins of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham].

11[b]Now if perfection (a perfect fellowship between God and the worshiper) had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood--for under it the people were given the Law--why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest[/b], one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order and rank of Aaron?



12[b]For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well.[/b]
13[b]For the One of Whom these things are said belonged [not to the priestly line but] to another tribe, no member of which has officiated at the altar[/b].

14For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe.

15And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek, †1
16Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
17For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek. †2
18[b]So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness[/b]--
19[b]For the Law never made anything perfect[/b]--but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.


Now before anyone start, I'm not saying Old testament shouldn't be in the Bible, but the same Bible says we're ministers of the New Testament, and that the letters of the old testaments killeth and brings veil on people's eyes when they read it today.

2 Cor 3:6 - 17 (AMP)

6[It is He] Who has qualified us [making us to be fit and worthy and sufficient] as ministers and dispensers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not [ministers] of the letter (of legally written code) but of the Spirit; for the code [of the Law] kills, but the [Holy] Spirit makes alive. †2
7Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away, †3
8Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ‡2 ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?
9For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [ ‡3 the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [ ‡for the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].
11For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
12Since we have such [glorious] hope (such joyful and confident expectation), we speak very freely and openly and fearlessly.
13Nor [do we act] like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze upon the finish of the vanishing [splendor which had been upon it].
14[b]In fact, their minds were grown hard and calloused [they had become dull and had lost the power of understanding]; for until this present day, when the Old Testament (the old covenant) is being read, that same veil still lies [on their hearts], not being lifted [to reveal] that in Christ it is made void and done away.[/b]
15[b]Yes, down to this [very] day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their minds and hearts.[/b]
16But whenever a person turns [in repentance] to the Lord, the veil is stripped off and taken away.
17[b]Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom)[/b]. †4

So Guys, in as much as I'm not saying paying tithe is wrong, I know very well that God wouldn't destroy me for not paying it. He himself told me the letters of the old testament kills, and that I'm a minister of the New testament , a testament of the glorification of Christ in me, and also the demonstration of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) at work in me.

So for those who still want to live under the shadows of the law (Malachi 3); please carry on, you might just add burning of rams, goats, incense, lambs to the list. Afterall the Levites did those things in those days, abi now?

This post is quite funny because it brought out the truth about religion being the opium of the masses.
Don't you know that debt is not income and tithe is paid out of income.
Your debt is not part of your income but liability, you can only pay tihthe out of what is remaining from the settlement of your liabilities.

Actually, do those who pay Tithes, do with their overall Gross, or NET? If some do with NET, what percentage of Christians do?

The difference between NET and GROSS is just your liabilities you owe the GOvt like Tax, National Insurance, Voluntary Pension Fund, BUPA or whatever, I mean all the contributions your employers take out of your GROSS before handing that NET to the bank to pay you. HOW MANY PEOPLE PAY TITHE ON THEIR GROSS? From what I've come to realise, people do mostly with their NET,  what this means is that you've taken out your liabities (Debts), you've given unto ceasers what is ceasers (as was told by Christ), and after all the deductions, you then pay 10% to God, init?

This article is really not about whether Tithing is right or wrong, it's about whether it's right to suspend Tithe to pay off debt, and in my own opinion, 90% of those who pay tithe, do after paying off their Debts ie. liabilities like taxes, national contributions and insurances etc.

@KunleOshoB

No matter what you say here today, people will still perish for lack of knowledge , it's not my word, it's in the Bible.

I went through Heb 7: 5 - 28 from the Amplified Bible, which clearly states that the Levites were commanded to take tithes from the people who are of their bloodline. & That we are of a different bloodline, since Jesus descended literally from Judah blood line.

Check this out:

5And it is true that those descendants of Levi who are charged with the priestly office are commanded in the Law to take tithes from the people--which means, from their brethren--though these have descended from Abraham.
6But this person who has not their Levitical ancestry received tithes from Abraham [himself] and blessed him who possessed the promises [of God].

8Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].
9A person might even say that Levi [the father of the priestly tribe] himself, who received tithes (the tenth), paid tithes through Abraham,

Also Levi paid Tithe because he was still in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedek met Abraham.

10For he was still in the loins of his forefather [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham].

11Now if perfection (a perfect fellowship between God and the worshiper) had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood--for under it the people were given the Law--why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order and rank of Aaron?



12For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well.
13For the One of Whom these things are said belonged [not to the priestly line but] to another tribe, no member of which has officiated at the altar.

14For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe.

15And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek, †1
16Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
17For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek. †2
18[u]So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled [/u]because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness--
19For the Law never made anything perfect--but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.

Now before anyone start, I'm not saying Old testament shouldn't be in the Bible, but the same Bible says we're ministers of the New Testament, and that the letters of the old testaments killeth and brings veil on people's eyes when they read it today.

2 Cor 3:6 - 17 (AMP)

6[It is He] Who has qualified us [making us to be fit and worthy and sufficient] as ministers and dispensers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not [ministers] of the letter (of legally written code) but of the Spirit; for the code [of the Law] kills, but the [Holy] Spirit makes alive. †2
7Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses[b] because of its brilliance[/b], [a glory] that was to fade and pass away, †3
8Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ‡2 ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?
9[b]For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory[/b], how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [ ‡3 the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [ ‡4 the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].
11For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
12Since we have such [glorious] hope (such joyful and confident expectation), we speak very freely and openly and fearlessly.
13Nor [do we act] like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze upon the finish of the vanishing [splendor which had been upon it].
14In fact, their minds were grown hard and calloused [they had become dull and had lost the power of understanding]; for until this present day, when the Old Testament (the old covenant) is being read, that same veil still lies [on their hearts], not being lifted [to reveal] that in Christ it is made void and done away.
15Yes, down to this [very] day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their minds and hearts.
16But whenever a person turns [in repentance] to the Lord, the veil is stripped off and taken away.
17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom). †4

So Guys, in as much as I'm not saying paying tithe is wrong, I know very well that God wouldn't destroy me for not paying it. He himself told me the letters of the old testament kills, and that I'm a minister of the New testament , a testament of the glorification of Christ in me, and also the demonstration of the Holy Spirit (God's Spirit) at work in me.

So for those who still want to live under the shadows of the law (Malachi 3); please carry on, you might just add burning of rams, goats, incense, lambs to the list. Afterall the Levites did those things in those days, abi now?

Mark12:43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

Man, we both know Christ wasn't talking about Tithe in Mark12:43. As Christians, we need to give willingly because God loves a cheerful giver. Man I can't shout, but I know I've been doing even more than 10% of my earnings in offerings & cheerful giving. Both unto the Church and outside Church, becuase that's who I am ,  a natural giver.

You can't give what you don't have, the poor woman in Mark 12:43 had something to live on, and she did put everything down in offering, not TITHE!

Can you also remember when Disciples were asking Christ to sell an anointing oil from the Alabaster box woman and pay the poor with it? Here Christ's own response in his words (documented by Matt, Mark and Luke):

Mk 14: 4-9
4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made? 5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. they murmured against her. 6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always. 8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying. 9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

@ PurestBoy

I don't eat 10% of my earnings, I actually give out average of 40% of my earnings in offerings and thanksgiving.
I can't be robbed, so I don't have to wait until I do. I can't encounter bad experience because I'm not disadvantaged. I'm not living my life based on the richest people, ofcourse I have an eternal life which I believe most of them don't.

All I've said can be cross referenced with the word of God. Can you please tell me when God said in his word, that I will be robbed or will experience bad things or will be raped or be damned? See, listen to what he said: "I Shall not lack anything good", "No Evil will Befall me", "Even if I walked through the Valley of Death, I shall fear no Evil, because he is with me", "Many will gather for thy sake, and will fall for they sake". "Touch not my Anoited and Do my prophets no Harm", "With my eyes shall I behold many falling on my right hand and many on my left".

If you really understand the principles of biblical prosperity, you'll know that there is a purpose why Christ died for you sin, and there is a purpose why Holy Spirit came after he left. If you trully have the life of God in you, you will never go into Debt in the first place. Christ was made poor so that, through his poverty you will be rich. And God never conditioned any of the above with TITHE! So why are you prophesying doom for me now?

So, please, stop prophesing doom for me, just for your own sake, ABegi. Since the day i got born again, and received the spirit, I have never and will never lacked anything good. No weapon fashioned against me can prosper, and every tongues that rises against me in judgements shall be condemned ,  that is our heritage, not bad experiences, debts, robberies, failures, rape, calamities as you obviously believe in.

One thing I don't like is people keep saying bad things happen to them because they missed thief tithe.

I have said it before and will say it again, that is utter rubbish. I've never paid tithe in my life and I've never been robbed before. Tithing is a thing of the spirit that needs personal conviction from God. If you pay it fine, if you don't fine all the same. 90% of the world's richest people never pay tithes and aren't even christians self. The richest man in Nigeria is not a Christian.

God loves a cheerful giver, be it in offering and/or tithe. God will NEVER punish any one he loves because they skipped their tithe,  God is not like man, he loves both the justs and the unjusts. He sent his son to die for the sins of men, that includes Christian, Non-Christians, the Tithers and the Non-Tithers.

Having said all these, it doesn't make perfect sense to go out of the Church, borrow money and not pay back. Even bible says owe no one money, Pay your rents, pay your debts, God sees your heart and knows you're not robbing him. If you're in need, go to Church and speak to your pastor, don't go to the bank and incur debt in the first place. Isn't the same Bible that says Debtors are servants to those who lend them. If you owe 7months house rent and someone gives you money, would you risk getting evicted just to pay tithe, That's utter foolishness. God wouldn't punish you for paying your rents, he's not a wicked God please.

He specifically said no evil will befall us, he said many will fall on our right hand and left, but they will not come near you. He said he will supply all our needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus. Guess what, none of those have TITHING as conditions attached to them.

Like I said earlier, if you're ok with paying tithe, we bless God for you. But don't tell us God will allow/do bad things to happen to people who don't

The bottom line from my perspective about paying tithe is this: When we all get to the gates, Christ wouldn't say because you pay your tithe come to my left hand.

Even there will be some on that day who though they pay their tithes, heal the sick in his name, cast out demons in his name, did mighty things in his name , but because all those things are unauthorised, Christ will say "Ye workers of iniquity" to them. Matt 7: 21 - 23

So, my peeps, what's the point , you can still pay your tithe and go to HELL!

Talking about Debts , if your Pastor is really teaching you Bible's fundamental principles of success, you'll definitely wouldn't be in debt in the first place. I hate it when people tell me, they're Christians and yet, they are in debt, This is because they lack knowledge of the fact that they are rich in Christ , Christ who was rich became poor so that you may be rich. 2 Cor 8:9 "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."

The fact remains that God never conditioned (in the New Testament) his blessings with paying of tithe, he never said in the New testament to and not to , and I wouldn't say paying of tithe is wrong, because when Christ mentioned it he didn't say it was, but I will say if you feel good about paying tithe, please do, and if you don't feel good about it , fine , everyone with his own standing in God's presence I begi.

Like I was saying, every single bit of the New testament where God promised us blessings , the popular Phil 4:19 , he will supply all our needs according to his riches in glory through Christ Jesus, tell me, did he say until you pay your tithe , why one earth should a Christ-Like Person be poor , when Christ was glorified in his resurrection with us. We died with all those bad things of life when he did, Now we're alive, we're rich in him.

So, it's either your Pastor is hiding some knowledge and truth from you, that's why you're in debt in the first place because, When you got Born again, Debts was not part of the package of Salvation. I have quoted before that Bible encourages you not to go into debt. If you need money (sometimes which we truly do), didn't the Bible encourage us to give into the household (offerings) so this same came be offered to the poor in the spirit. Why not go to your pastor and ask for help , why go to the Bank and borrow those &&&&&&&&££££££££NNNNNNNN, and then when you make some money to pay up, you say, because I have to give TITHE, I WILL STILL MULTIPLLY MY DEBT again , that's is just utter rubbish and senseless judgement. We all just claim to be some self-righteous muguns, I'm not saying don't pay tithe, I never can't and never will, I'm saying pay up your debts, it's not glorifying to God to be in debt, he asked not to be in his word, owe no man any debt(money) is what God said in his word.

If you're really in need of money for some reason , go to the Church, don't go to the Bank , then you wouldn't have debts to sacrifice for your TITHE in the first place,

PHEW!

I don talk am before,
If u give 10%, God will be pleased for your contribution.
If u chose freewill offerings, maybe 10% 0r 50%, God will still be
pleased with you.
The bottomline is that it must be done FREELY without COMPULSION.

So, all that guilt trip about thunder striking you if you fail to
commit 10% to your pastor is a ploy to fleace you of your
hard earned money.

Besides, there's no where in scriptures where the tithe is MONEY!
Please show me.

Yes oO!, we all know in the days of the old testament, we had little measure of money - so to speak; na trade by batter dey rule everyone, however, I believe in the days of new testament, we had pieces of silver (Ask Judas how much he took to betray Jesus); we also had taxes, we had dues ,  and I believe all these were monetary worths.

Guys, let's not be sentimental about issues like this ,

I've read from so many people saying you can't rob peter to pay paul. That's rubbish , absolutely and this is why:

We can't sin to please God , NEVER. Shall we continue in sin so that God's grace will increase , NO!

When that woman in 2 Kings 4 cried unto Elisha, and Elisha gave her instructions as to how to utilise the last bit of oil, when this ceased after pouring into one vessel in verse 6, and then she ran back to Elisha , check this out , Elisha didn't say bring the remaining oil in a vessel for the LORD; NEITHER Did he say SELL THE OIL AND BRING THE MONEY FOR THE LORD

Elisha said in verse 7:
7 Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, "Go, sell the oil and pay your debt; and you and your sons live on the rest."

Being in Debt, the Bible encouraged us not to ,

Amplified version of the Bible in Rom 13:8 -
"Keep out of debt and owe no man anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor [who practices loving others] has fulfilled the Law [relating to one's fellowmen, meeting all its requirements]. "

@ Ogosh2k

What did Christ himself say about the Old Testament? ie. the Law ,

Matt 5: 17 - 20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

There is an argument that Christ has already fulfill the law in his death and rising again. But why do Christians of the New Testament after the filling of the Holy Ghost still quote the Old Testament , eg. Peter quoting Joel 2:28-32 in Act 2:17 - 21

But there is another argument that why don't we modern Christians do things like killing of goats, rams, lamb, and allowing only levites to enter Church and tie aprons at their back in case they die , the truth is that Christ has come to die for the sins of all men, ONCE and FOR ALL , he also torn that veil that covers people's face whenever they read the Old testament.

The buttom line is, whenever there is a controversy in any Biblical topic, the best teacher of all the characters in the Bible is Christ himself , read in between his lines , I am yet to see any place where Tithing is classified as a Sin, not by Christ himself anyways.

These days, one doesn't know who to believe again, I've heard evil things from some so called Pastors, that at the end of the day, the best place to learn from is God's word, and believe you me , I'll rather learn directly from Jesus mouth than Malachi's mouth.

Even Jesus said he wouldn't "invalidate" tithing, but he said as we tithe, we also do those which are more important.

Now Check this out , these are words from Christ's mouth himself , undiluted mate ,

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe [/u]of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, [u]without leaving the others undone.

This simply means Christ want us to do Justice, Mercy, Faith , without leaving the place of others , here he refer to as Tithing ,

I know so many of our Pastors attach so many weights on Tithing, maybe it shouldn't be, because he mentioned the word "Tithe" only a very few number of times as recorded. If it were so so so important as today, I believe nearly all New Testament Writers would dedicate at least a chapter to it.

In a nutshell, pay your tithe and forget what happens to it thereafter , leave God to judge the rest. At the end of the day, God loves everyone, both those who pay tithe, and those who don't. God ain't judgmental to allow bad things happen to those who don't , Common guys, even the non-Christians enjoy good things of life. I mean, 70% of the world's wealthiest people aren't Christian , and so? What differs btw us and them is eternal life which is unquatifiable with money. I beg, God causes his rain to fall on both the just and the unjust, the sinners and the righteous , he loves everyone, hence why he sent his son to die for the sins of ALL MEN , that will include the rapists and armed robbers of our time , no LONG THING iBeg

@ Hayo

The thread is meant only for those that are in the recruitment process of KPMG, one of the world's top consulting company - formerly called Arthur Andersson before the mess
If you don't know what KPMG is - that means you do not need to bother yourself with this thread - especially if you are in 400 Level and above.Ma
Maybe you are not the kind they are looking for!

If I were a KPMG Resource Personel, what I will do is get your contact and halt your recruitment process. You don't treat people that way because you don't know who they are, they might be the key you need to land a big time contract for the brand ,  KPMG don't need people with "Attitude" Problems!

Peace Out!

AM A WOMAN RIGHT CRUSADER/ACTIVISTS AND I PROMISE TO GIVE IT TO YOU GUYS WHEN YOU TALK WITHOUT GUVING WOMEN DUE RESPECT.
AFTERALL WITHOUT YOUR PARTRONISING CALL GIRLS, THEY WOULD HAVE SEIZED TO OPERATE

A Prostitute is a "person" who engaegs in sexual acts for money. Not necessarily have to be a woman. Men too can be prostitutes.

I think in this modern age, you can not eradicate prostitution, as a woman right activist, you should know that controlling prostitution is the best option, most developed countries have adopted this methodology and it works for them. It wouldn't be such a bad idea if Nigeria controls it. Prostitution is illegal in most Developed countries, and should be the same in Nigeria in my own candid opinion, but it could be controlled just like other Countries by putting some sort of administration round it. For instance in the UK, it's illegal to pay money for sexual activities, but it seems to be legal to pay money for "companionships", and anything that happens during this period like they say, it's totally due to consent between adults involved.

Peace Out!

You can not be a christian and freethinker at the same time, please, decide on one because the kingdom of heaven is here.

Definitions:

1. Christian:- Follower and Emulator of Christ, someone who believes in Christ and his teachings.

2. Free Thinker:- when applied to religion, the philosophy of freethought holds that, given presently-known facts, established scientific theories, and logical principles, there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.

Does this mean I can't be a Christian and still think freely , please clarify, does this mean I have to take everything that comes from my Pastor without verifying it?

Or maybe I'm mixing things up, maybe Freethinking is different from Thinking Freely, but I am cmoing from the perspective that, I have to search every thing and hold on only to the truth, even things that our Pastors say on the pulpits, shouldn't we still go back and get our own understanding to things, Your comment is highly appreciated.

Peace Out!

Me, I ready for Discussion and that's what I'm here for, I want to learn as I don't even know everything about the Bible, to be honest.

Back to the Topic, Tithes appeared 5 times in the New Testament and mostly in Hebrew, I thought I once heared that we're not sure who wrote Hebrew , is that still correct?

Also, whoever the writer is, was talking about the tithing relationship between Melchizedek and Abraham, Levites and those of non-Levite geneology, in a nut shell, he was making reference to the Laws in Old Testament , Do we still live by the Laws? Yes, Christ never came to destroy the Law, but he taught things we need to live by, and certainly as you will agree , Tithe is not one of those things, am I right?

Cheers Pilgrim for pointing this out, obviously I didn't search enough,

So the word "Tithe" appeared twice
"Tithes" with an 's' appeared 5 times

So, Technically, I'm still right as I highlighted "Tithe" and not "Tithes" in my post, abi?

Pilgrim Ko HND_Holder, make una suffri suffri, this na "Christian" matter oO!, and be good examples to people like me please

Thanks

Peace Out!

Ok, Chaps, thank you very much for your time, I've learnt a lot from you lots, also, I went through all the versions of the bible I've got and the word "Tithe" appeared only twice in the New Testament, Mat 23:23 and Luk 11:42, Christ spoke himself saying:

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone"

So, I think I should pay more attention to Justice, Mercy and Faith, those are more important than Tithe, ofcourse having mercy by giving Offerings to the needy, also the Pastors and workers can live on that. I need not be scared by anybody ,

But at the end of the day, me personally think our offerings and thanksgivings is enough for those that work in the Church to live on as stipulated by some of you chaps. Tithing isn't wrong, so it's right as it's Biblical and Christ didn't teach otherwise, but also he never included it in his teachings, so it's not compulsory as the Pastors preach/teach about it these days, PERIOD!

Peace Out!

Looks like I have to be more careful issuing out Cheques post redenomination. Say, I intend to issue a cheque of N150,000 to my broker and then forget to "cancel 2 zeros", men enuf money for the Broker ni ye ke ,

Peace Out!

@ Seunpatrol

yeeeeparipa! u want to kill yourself with palm oil calories

You don chop Ghania Palm oil before? nne, na only Nigerian palm oil calories and cholesterol dey, try and see that Ghanian Palm Oil with Pounded Plantain is good lol!

a very very big pay cheque!!

@ AbiodunAde

I strongly believed that paying one's tithe is biblical and it is a commandment from the Almight God. God says bring all your tithe and offering into my house and see if i will not open the gate of Heavenly blessings unto you. For someone to be prosper in this world that person needs to strictly obey the commandment of God.

Is this a known fact or what, that will probably depend on your defination of prosperity, the dictionary defines it as a successful, flourishing, or thriving condition, esp. in financial respects or good fortune. So what you're saying is if I don't keep his commandment, I can't prosper? Na wa for una self, as a Christian I don't belief this, you don't have to be a Christian to propser in life my brother ,  some of the world's richest and prosperous people don't even believe in God. As an example, isn't Dangote Prosperous? Does he keep the "Christian's God's" commandments? except if you're saying I don't have to be a Christian to keep his commandments ? Please clarify

If you want me to understand that Tithe is part of God's Commandment, so I should do it, then you'll have to make me understand that I should offer Goat/Ram/Sheep to God as Burnt Offering, because that is also part of his "Old Testament" commandments? Abi?

As far as I understand:-
1. Tithe is Biblical because it's in the Bible, so also is "Burnt Offerings", Burnt Offering is also Biblical, init?
2. It's not wrong to Pay Tithes, I never said it is oO! please don't quote me wrongly
3. Offering & Thanksgiving is very very very Important and I do it every time I go to Church without my pastor's knowledge.

Issue:
1. Is Tithe Compulsory? What will happen to me if I don't. There are Christians who don't pay Tithe and are very Prosperous, there are non-Christians who are properous and don't obey God's commandments. If I'm going to start paying tithes, then for now, that will have to be due to the "fear" my pastor has instill in me rather than the WORD itself. I don't want to be doing something because my Pastor scared me to, I want to do it because I have to. As a Christian I know if I don't keep God's commandment, then I can't have a Christianic Relationship with him, but I'm struggling to know what will happen to me if I don't pay Tithe? ANYONE?

Peace Out!

@ Otokx

Is it possible that we could limit ourselves to just the gospels in discussing this tithe matter?

So, is it wrong to follow those things Christ and the Apostles said and preached about, ofcourse he himself said he's not here to destroy the mosaic laws, but if Tithe/Tithing is very important that there is no account that Jesus himself tithed, what's the fuss about it then. Can someone who believe in Tithe tell me what will happen to me if I don't "Tithe" but give offerings to the Church and the Needy? Did your answer connote to what happened to Christ and the Disciples, because there is no account that they also tithed.

He spoke about tax though, I think I can safely assume that the tax he spoke about is not same as tithe we're referring to ,  in that place where he said, "Give unto Ceasar, what is Ceasars, and Unto God, what is God's". From another point of view, someone might say, Christ didn't come to destroy the old testament laws, like Tithe, burnt offerings etc., so why didn't Christ offer burnt offerings as in killing Goats/Ram/Sheep as accounted in the Old testament, why don't Pastors preach "Burnt Offering" as much as they preach "Tithe"

What you will find is that the Gospels do not really deal with "tithes"/"tithing", apart from passing references, becasue it is irrelevant to the Christian.

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant here, I would say it's not COMPULSORY, something can be irrelevant and still not compulsory, but why make irrelevant things COMPULSORY. Pastors tell me, if you don't pay tithe, Bugs will eat up my FINANCIAL POCKETS! , now how true is that? The only thing I believe in is Thanksgiving, Offerings in the Lord and to the Needy, I really want to get my head round this Tithe issue, but still yet to be convinced.

Please guys, I'm not being skeptical, I just want to learn and make sure I'm learning the right thing,  no hard feelings to the Pastors in our midst ,

Peace Out!

@ debojyde (m)

i,m confused.Divide by 100So what happens when you have cash in yhe bank.e.g,if i have 1 million naira now.Will automatically become super rich in the land of thousanaires.Or will they divide my 1 million by 100.I go kill somebody o.SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN.

I feel you my brother, you brought out the first laughter in me today, Thanks

@ azpunpin

Great Naija, All those Nigeria wey dey 4 oversea no go dey happy ooooo

But wetin den go do,
 Sorry brother n sistas oooo

Thanks Soludo.

Love ya

I think it wouldn't matter much, as in if they divide Naira by 100, so £1 will be like N2.45 abi, as opposed to N245, so what N245 will buy today, N2.45 will buy tomorrow.

Except if I've misinterpreted this whole thing, a piece of land 4 lekki which cost around N25million, will cost N250k next year abi, so that way, Nigerians in the Diaspora wouldn't feel anything "much" ,

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Peace Out!

@Denex

Nigerians cannot even challenge a fake pastor that has been blatantly lying to their faces for years, yet they want corrupt politicians to stop stealing.

Siddon look will be the end of us all.

At least there are proofs to take to court to prosecute the currupt Politicians, whenever you have the proof for the Fake Pastors, let me know, honestly, I will be the first to prosecute them!

Peace Out!

@ebos

Strongly remain a Catholic.

So this is what the Fuss is all about EBOS!

@ otokx

what is all this ostrich talk about "touch not, do prophet no harm sh**t?"

I'm a Christian and a free-thinker in my own opinion, I must admit that a lot of us use Bible verses out of context, the phrase "touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm" never referred to "Don't speak/speculate about his Prophet"; Touch from that phrase coined from the Hebrew word naw-gah' literally means strike as in to be stricken , harmed, defeated, , and King David was rejoicing and celebrating around the "Ark of God" when he started singing and admonishing the isrealites around him.

1 Chronicles 16:19 - 22 :-

19 When they were only a few in number, Very few, and strangers in it,
20 And they wandered about from nation to nation, And from one kingdom to another people,
21 He permitted no man to oppress them, And He reproved kings for their sakes, saying,
22 "Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm."

So that verse didn't mean we shouldn't express our views about the "Men of God", but indeed, David reminded the Isrealites that although they were few, but God had promised that no one will harm them when they move from nations to nations.

So, this is what the Fuss is all about.

Peace Out!

@ebos

I was not a kid as at 1999, I have been buying newspapers as at then.  I read the Magazine where Tunde said, after the vision, he cried and said why this should happen to Obasanjo, but God said to him that is the vision…  He only saw the structure of Nigeria then and predicted that doom.

You can't judge someone based on what you read in the dailies ,  trust me because I've been a victim. You say A today and the journalists turn it into B tomorrow.

Again, you guys are talking as if you don’t know Nigeria Pastors.  In 1980s, we used to see all these herbalists along the streets performing magic for people, but today they have modernized it and taken to the churches because nobody patronized them again on the streets.

You can speculate about Nigerian Pastors as you're entitled to your own opinion even if they're incorrect.

Even during the Old Testament, any Prophet of God that prophesized doom against any King or Israelites, the Prophet would make it clear for the people, and if the King or the Israelites changed from his or their sinful ways, God would still tell the Prophet to go back and announce that because they had shown remorse, I (God) would not bring disaster against him again in his lifetime probably after his death.  So, how many times Tunde Bakare has come back to tell Nigerians that God said since there is a remorse, this particular doom will no longer come to pass? Or this is the reason why God said that my prophesy against this person would not come to pass.

I'm speechless, simply because for the first time, I tend to agree with you on this one, but are you saying Bakare is an Herbalist in ref with your second quote above?

Most so-called men of God are deceiving a lot of people.

Ofcourse, I agree with you here, even the Bible agrees with you as in what will happend in the later days. However, you can't say "Most", because you don't have any statistical analysis to proof that, how many men of God there is, and how many deceives people? Please give us the numbers before you arrive at conclusions.

Open your eyes my people.  The man is only dreaming. He has prophesised a lot things and no one has come to pass.

Maybe, MaybeNot, at least you've told us what we need to hear ,  Open Your Eyes!