₦airaland Forum

Priests offer sacrifices. The true Messiah offered Himself as the purest of sacrifices before entering into His glory.

goshen360, I agree with your suggestion #2. However, the prophecies mentioned in the Prophets are still being fulfilled hence we should not avoid them. As you can see a topic here is already being debated - whether or not to include the Old Testament. As per the ole covenant, note that it is still aging as the Saviour hasn't yet gathered His scattered sheep (Ezekiel 34, 336 & 37; John 12:51-52). We could come up with topics per Book. The main point is that whenever each of us studies the Bible, even during church services, we should use the Berean model of cross-checking with the Scriptures and not swallow what we see and hear hook, line and sinker.

I have my own work as seen on my blog concerning HIS scattered sheep.

If some Igbo migrated from Edo where did the rest come from if not from Edo and perhaps at different times?


By the way, those oyinbo in Israel (Is-it-real not the true Israel) who are calling themselves Jews and are not, are of the synagogue of satan (Rev 2:9 and 3:9)

I would like to read all of C.O. Ibie's books on Ifa, all the volumes. If I remember correctly, he said in an interview with The Guardian Newspapers of Nigeria that Orunmila appeared to him; perhaps I still have the cut-out with me. For now I have gone through Odun Ifa by Dr Abosede Emmanuel.

As for the impact and adoption of Christianity within the Yoruba community, this is not surprising given that the strong ones amongst the people were selling the others as slaves in return for guns and other weapons and perhaps wealth. The trans-Atlantic slavery happened after a certain Alaafin pronounced a curse and during the inter-tribal wars during which there was chaos in the land. The Europeans helped to quench those wars thus it is not surprising that many Yoruba adopted Christianity. I don't know if the traditional rulers and priests have apologized to the people both in West Africa and the Diaspora for the role they played. Nevertheless, the Jesus Christ and Christianity as preached here by the Oyinbo supremacists are different from the true Redeemer (Ela, Ibikeji Olodumare) and His Gospel.

Not surprisingly, Ela who many today call El, had told our ancestors about the punishment of slavery and the ignominious role of the strong ones thousands of years ago as written in Genesis 15 (especially verses 12-15), Deuteronomy 28:68, and Ezekiel 34. Note that Oba Daodu who many today call David was/is adept at using Ifa to consult God.

Haa! Dem no wan confess?

wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo wayo

Linguistically, what's the difference between Ishan and Esan? Remember that the orthograph we use is borrowed.
So far there has been no logical argument to counter/disprove the observations of the OP about the glaring connection of Edo and Edom. Rather, you who have responded on this thread have done so with evidence-lacking denial and perhaps condemnation.

What does Onicha Ado na Idu mean?

we can take the first step here by discussing the modalities to adopt.

I agree that 2-4 weeks is quite short but by the time Revelations would have been covered then the series would serve as a useful reference and foundation for topics. It could also be used to sort of streamline and reduce the length of certain topics like the tithes thread for instance.

I have a suggestion based on an attempt to use the Berean model of Bible Study (Acts 17:11). How about starting a Bible Series of threads on each Book of the Bible where attempts would be made at arriving at thorough understandings of each chapter. The first could be on Genesis for like 2 weeks (or whatever acceptable threshold) followed by Exodus and so on in that order with each thread beginning with a compilation of suggested topics for discussion and clarification, and no reference to the next Book such that the Book being discussed would have as its foundation the discussions of previous ones. By the time the New Testament is reached there should have been enough grasp useful in seeing clearly issues in the New Testament like Sabbath, Tithes and the Law, and so on. There could also be a sticky thread like this one where the link to each thread of the Bible Book being discussed would be progressively added. God is merciful and I am sure HE wants to guide us. What do you think?

Thanks isale_gan2. As for Negro_Ntn's comment about whether or not David was the birth name, I would want to first find out what sort of Odu configuration/signature would have been shown during his Esentaye.

Is it not true that a certain reddish- and hairy-looking people frequently associated with a certain stereotype (Genesis 25:32) migrated eastwards from the Edo(m) kingdom?

Okay

Permit me to borrow from the Yoruba. There names of some Yoruba towns mentioned in the Odu Ifa that seem not to exist today, some were destroyed during the intra-tribal wars. This much is supported by various oral accounts. Perhaps the Igbo have similar oral accounts of some now-extinct Igbo towns, if at all any.

***edited***

Nnenna1:
Not to pick on you, but something about the bolded strikes me. When you imply that the Northern and/or the Yoruba must be the oldest kingdoms in Nigeria rather than Igbo (per your reference to the Sukur Kingdom and Sungbo Eredo) , do you have an attempted, biased and maybe narcissistic desire to claim pre-eminence for your tribe (I'm guessing that you're Yoruba)? Or do you excuse yourself from this possibility?

Please, enlighten me. It seems that Igbos are held to high moral standards that everyone else in Nigeria is exempt from.

I haven't implied that Sukur and Sungbo are/were the oldest, neither have I mentioned or implied same concerning the Yoruba or any other. My opinion concerning the topic is that the claims of some Igbo in this regard are spurious and illogical as the OP has even shown with the glaring example of GIRGAM and mine of Ikom which the supporters of Igbo pre-eminence have not countered/acknowledged. Isn't Borno part of Nigeria? Added to that is the obvious lack of comparison with dates of mountainous Nigerian nationalities (e.g. Koma, perhaps Sukur) and many others. Similarly, no denial has been put forth that some Igbo migrated from Edo as has been mentioned on other Igbo Nairaland threads. Could it be that this could deflate claims about the age of Nri?

Did you all know that the people of Kebbi are Assyrian refugees who fled their homeland around 600BC from Babylonian conquest and then settled in Kebbi state? Did you know that their first king is known as the person of Sargon of Akkad? You can check out their history if you want to. Try

[url=http://dierklange.com/pdf/Kebbi-Assyrien_Anthropos%202009_359-382.pdf]An Assyrian Successor State in West Africa: The Ancestral Kings of Kebbi as Ancient Near Eastern Rulers (by Dierk Lange)[/url]

You can do better.

A Yoruba/Ifa proverb:

Korowo koyena ki m lo lona

Philanthropy is the cost of money

The Messiah did not use speakers. The Apostles did not use speakers. Moses did not use speakers. Speakers were not used in the Temple. The absence of speakers does not preclude the presence of the Most High God.

richylaw:
@ OP ,
Does Ifa recognize 1st of January as the new year?
Without delving into the core of divination, I think the last time I checked, the traditional new year is not January but June 'Eta Okudu' meaning 3rd of June.
But this is just my curious mind anyway.

However, Eyi orisa wi, eyi irunmole so, aro a ro mo o. Ase.

Aboye , bo sise o
Ire

On point! I thought the year starts in August. No to westernization of the Yoruba calendar.

Daodu seems to be the proper pronunciation and the meaning is

Ẹni to da Odu lẹ

The One who established/founded/set down/gave us the Odu

or

The One who casts the configuration of the Odu

The translation above can be shortened to Ẹni to da Odu or quite simply as Da Odu without the message therein getting lost to those already familiar with the Yoruba language and customs.

aribisala0, thanks for sharing that info about GIRGAM, I hadn't come across that before. From what I've gleaned its very important and I wonder why the media seems to have been silent about it; perhaps because it shows a very long Afro-Asiatic king list and points to migration from the region of the Levant/Mesopotamia.

Is Ajobiewe a name?

The intention with that comment was not to provoke as I had read about such (of some Igbo) here on Nairaland and thereafter wondered if there was some sort of mixing.

Didn't the Igbo (eg the Obi of Onitsha and his entourage) come out of Edo?

The Sukur kingdom still exists and the present dynasty is the Dur.

The Ikom monoliths in Cross River are thought to be dating back from 250BC to 170AD. Even the World Monuments Fund's (WMF) dates them to 2000BC

If they understood the message therein and their foundations then they should be able to preach about them as they aren't shocking. But then, do most of them understand? Haven't they been misinterpreting the Scriptures?

Chai!!! Aren't they the cuckoo Jews, of the synagogue of satan? They are not Abraham's descendants (Revelations 2:9; 3:9).

Another version of Dudu_Negro's question: "Are you ready to accept the implications even if you do not initially like them?"

Even I have recently struggled with the acceptance of something huge but it is for my own good that I embrace it for the purpose of Redemption. The Truth does not need us to be. Rather, we need and have to accept the Truth as the Truth and not our Egos is the reason for our existence.

PhysicsQED:
Amor4ce and Negro Ntns,

This excerpt from an article I posted in that thread in which I was debating with Rossik, although dealing particularly with the case of the Akan rather than West Africa in general, neatly summarizes the spirit of my approach to the scattered links (and they do exist, that's not really what is in dispute here) between West African cultures and Northeast African cultures, the Sudan, Egypt, or the Levant:

"The search for linguistic similarities occurred mainly in [size=20pt]Mrs. Meyerowitz's[/size] earlier volumes; in her latest the emphasis is on cultural likenesses, and specifically likenesses in magico-religious institutions. Here again the method has been employed by many diffusionists. But in this case the methodology is more solidly grounded. This is not to say that some of [size=20pt]Mrs. Meyerowitz's[/size] tabulated comparisons between Carthaginian and Akan deities are not rather tenuous, while her account of North African history is in places marked by somewhat imaginative reinterpretations. One has only to compare her account of the marriage of Juba II to Cleopatra Selene (I958, p. 130 and footnote) with that in K. D. Mathews, Cities in the Sand (1957) to realize the sort of latitude she permits herself. Nevertheless, there are undoubtedly similarities between the institutions of the Akan and those of the Middle East, as [size=20pt]Bowdich, Williams[/size], Danquah, and others had already noted. [size=14pt]The diffusionist sees in these resemblances indications of the spread of cultural traits from one area to the other, even in the absence of other information. Moreover, the method of diffusion is usually assumed to be migration rather than contact in the course of trade or other modes of intercourse. Theories of diffusion, whether by migration or other means, explain the existence of cultural similarities only when archaeological or other additional evidence is forthcoming. In the first place, such information is required to establish the direction of diffusion. In default of this, there is as much reason to suppose that' divine kingship ' travelled from West Africa to the Near East as vice versa; or 'totemism' from Ashanti to Carthage. Where such evidence is not available, it may well be that cultural similarities should be related to an underlying uniformity of culture[/size]. As [size=20pt]Frankfort[/size] has insisted, supporting his point with some telling archaeological evidence, [size=15pt]'resemblances between modern Africans and ancient Egyptians are not always emanations from Egypt' but can often be related to a common cultural substratum[/size] ( 948, p. 348). Nor does this exhaust the possibilities. For example, the phenomenon of 'divine kingship', and I use the concept in the undifferentiated [size=20pt]Frazerian[/size] sense rather than with the more specific meaning given to it by [size=20pt]Frankfort[/size], has been explained in quite different terms by [size=20pt]Professor Evans-Pritchard[/size]. 'Kingship everywhere and at all times ', he claims, 'has been in some degree a sacred office. Rex est mixta persona precipitate sacerdote.' An institution of this kind requires an explanation which applies to kingship in general, not to certain selected states alone. And it is just such a sociological interpretation that [size=20pt]Evans-Pritchard[/size] offers: '. . . a king symbolizes a whole society and must not be identified with any part of it. He must be in the society and yet stand outside it and this is only possible if his office is raised to a mystical plane. It is the kingship and not the king who is divine' ([size=20pt]Evans-Pritchard[/size], 1948, p. 36). Totemism in its most general form has been the subject of similar hypotheses by [size=20pt]Durkheim and Radcliffe-Brown[/size]. These are but two of a large number of institutions, such as the levirate, matriliny, and polygamy, the distribution of which it would be most unwise to attempt to explain by diffusionist assumptions, except in some specific instances where positive evidence was available. [size=15pt]We may therefore conclude that while the comparison of customary behaviour is from one angle less hazardous for diffusionist reconstruction than the selection of linguistic similarities in that undoubted and significant likenesses do exist, there may well be alternative and more cogent explanations for the presence of similar religious institutions (such as totemism) or similar systems of descent (such as matriliny) than diffusion by migration or other means from an assumed centre of origin. And these alternatives are too rarely considered by those engaged in ethnohistorical reconstructions.[/size] "

"Ethnohistory and the Akan of Ghana"
Author(s): [size=20pt]Jack Goody[/size]
Source: Africa: Journal of the International African Institute, Vol. 29, No. 1 (Jan., 1959), pp.67-81
Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of the International African Institute
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1157500 .

oyinbo names »» code red!!! »» research pockmarked with confirmation bias and lavishly strewn all over with subtle and/or open condescension?

So Igala used to have a reputation for filth? When and where have the Yoruba ever claimed to be the parents of the Igala?

ezeagu:
Ewe-Igbo

The Ewe migrated from Ketu/Old Oyo. A solid evidence is the same traditional worship and divination practiced by the Yoruba/Ewe. Some of you Igbo should stop trying to claim anyhow.

Personally, I have not accepted the claims by some about the age of Igbo Ukwu and Nri as I see such as an attempted, biased and maybe narcissistic desire to claim pre-eminence. What about the old Sukur kingdom or Koma or Sungbo Eredo or the nations/kingdoms that fled away from the Fulani to the mountains?

deleted

What of the one said to be on one of the Idanre hills?