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Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 12:45pm On May 14, 2017

menxer:
what happens to the Gospel of Jesus?

That's the gospel Paul preached. It's not from Paul but Jesus himself.

When Jesus was on earth he ministered only to those of the circumcision, teaching them the Law and the Kingdom of God. The law as a school master that leads us to Christ and the Kingdom of God as a reality after His death. These He commanded His disciples to do too. They were not to leave Jerusalem. (Even when they faced persecution, they still remained there.)

But after his ascension, He called and separated Paul to minister to the gentiles the gospel of free grace These gentiles would not be justified by the law but by faith. This, to prove that the righteousness of the law can only be obtained by faith and not by works of the law. So those of the circumcision (to whom Christ preached to) would come to see that those without the Law have the righteousness of the law which they themselves cannot obtain by works.

So God is no author of confusion. The disciples with Jesus were not to go to the gentiles with their gospel of the Kingdom so they don't lay another foundation different from God's plan for the gentiles and the remnant of jews. God's plan for us all is for us to be justified by faith in Christ alone apart from the law. Both Jews and gentiles.

When you study Romans, you will see that God blinded the Israelites to not believe the gospel Paul preached and be saved (Only few believed) and God provoked them to jealousy by going after the Gentiles that were not seeking Him and granted them true repentance through Paul's gospel.

[ Romans chapter 3, chapter 10, and chapter 11. You can even look at the whole book of Romans for clearer understanding]

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 10:36am On May 14, 2017

menxer:
Isn't that a little egoistic?
So you are a Paulian not a Christian?

Lol not true. Paul's gospel is the gospel of God. And no Jew or gentile can be saved without it. Paul called it his gospel because that's the gospel God gave him to preach to the gentiles which is distinct from the one given to the 12.

Romans 15:15-19
Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Galatians 2:7-8
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.

We are to preach Paul's gospel or rather God's gospel

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 8:34pm On May 13, 2017

Splinz:
According to An2elect2. This is just one of your blatant fabrications. And indeed, it is such a shame.

John 5:26 states: “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself...” and “Who only hath immortality...” (1 Timothy 6:16). These are plain bible verses that shows that God alone is the possessor of immortality/eternal life now!

As for His promise of granting eternal life to us, ...“But now we see not yet all things put under him [man]. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man (Hebrews 2:8-9). Like Jesus ,who after doing His Father will was crowned with glory and honour at the end, so has He also promised to give this crown of life to those who also endured to the end (Rev. 2:10, 3:21, Matthew 24:13).

Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 states: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory”? Do you grasp this understanding? Eternal life is granted to us at the LAST TRUMP, which herald the arrival of the King of kings to give reward according to each man's works (Rev. 22:12).

This is when we are changed from mortals to immortals! This is when you can claim eternal life! Doing so now depicts either ignorance or sheer wishful thinking. Besides, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). Are you now a spirit being? Eternal life is still a promise! (Hebrews 11:39).

Story. We are to overcome/endure in order to receive our reward, just like Jesus did. (Revelation 3:21). A winner is not crowned if he/she doesn't play according to the rules!

I won't bother countering the falsehood up there cos I perceive you are hardhearted and of course hate the truth. You seek not the truth but a reinforcement of the lies you adore but God will judge all men by the gospel I have preached here, which is Paul's gospel. God bearing me witness I have said all that needs to be said to you. May the Lord have mercy.

Christianity Etc › Re: An Example Of Being Spirit - Filled. by An2elect2(f): 8:16pm On May 13, 2017

Scholar8200:
ok

Don't forget this...

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: An Example Of Being Spirit - Filled. by An2elect2(f): 6:22pm On May 13, 2017

Scholar8200:
and learn from those who follow our example.Phil. 3:17b . Was the writer of that epistle inspired by the Spirit of God or a false spirit? and when Luke used close to 2 chapters to capture the life of Stephen, was that also about Christ? or was he also influenced by a false spirit?

Indeed, when Jesus said that the deed of the woman that washed His feet with tears will be mentioned as a memorial where the Gospel is preached, was He mistaken?

There are many whose experience of grace dwarfs ours and challenges us to receive more from Him by Whom Grace and Truth came.

It's best to weigh your words carefully before typing.

I forgot its you! Another Freewiller! These are the kinds of false Spirits we receive when we reject the truth.
This story of a strange woman with strange experience that has no resemblance with the life of the saints in the Bible who also had the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Unlike "Righteous Helen" the Spirit they received revealed Christ to them not turning them into some strange beings to be reverred.

God has called us to make disciples after Him and not ourselves like your Helen.

Pls what is more demonic than this quote that ascribes power to Helen's name?

One night we were all having a special evening together, young people rejoicing in the Lord, and having a good time, when my wife said, "Is that Helen Ewan’s photograph on the mantelpiece?"
Suddenly there was a dead silence, and she said, "Jim, have I said anything wrong?" All the laughing ceased, and one by one, without anybody saying a word, we dropped down on our knees and began to pray. Think of it, years after she had gone home to Heaven, her name was so powerful.
"Her name was so powerful" What blasphemy. Was Paul's name powerful? Was Peter's name powerful? Was Stephen's name powerful?

These apostles of God did not make disciples after themselves but after Christ. We are to follow suit. Preach Christ who alone has all power and by whose name alone every knee should bow. And not turn ourselves into "special beings" or "special Christs" and take God's glory.

Do not be deceived. Test all Spirits. I have not spoken out of hatred but out of great concern. Weigh my words with the Bible and you will see I am not lying.

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 1:52pm On May 13, 2017*

JMAN05:
I think your position is the one that would conflict with the whole bible message cos it is based on few verses of the bible, and contradicts many parts. Context always helps us to establish the meaning of a bible portion.

Lol. Do you know the meaning of context dear JMANO5? Let me briefly explain. It means reading the whole chapter of a book to understand a position, and making sure the conclusion derived does not contradict other scriptures. If in anyway, you have a contradiction, do you go with a side that seems to agree with your preconceived opinion? and damn the other? Have you no fear of God?

God's justice and Love are also essential part to be considered. Do not make Him unjust and unloving by detaching a verse and interpreting in isolation. If your interpretation does not agree with other parts of the bible, it is wrong.

You accuse me of what you do ignorantly

Paul who was called, made this comment:

1Cor 9:24-27

"Do you not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Now everyone competing in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Of course, they do it to receive a crown that can perish, but we, one that does not perish. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not aimlessly; the way I am aiming my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow."

Paul here shows that if he did not make earnest effort in conduct, he could lose the prize just like a runner in a race would.

You have quoted verses and you have given them your own interpretation without paying attention to biblical facts

Do you know your interpretation of this verse is not in harmony with the gospel Paul preached? But do you care that you have made God a liar and author of confusion?

The Bible unequivocally states without reservation that SALVATION IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST. Ephesians 2:8,9.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Can't you see that salvation is a gift? And eternal life a gift?

If we go by your interpretation of those verses then salvation cannot be a gift but a reward for living/working right/fighting sin. But the passage that speaks of salvation says it is a gift. What then?

Is this race Paul spoke of a means to earn eternal life or the working of the abundance of God's grace in him? Was Paul chewing his own words and asking the church to work for eternal life?

When Paul spoke of subjecting his body in order not to be disapproved or a cast away, was he saying, "oh there is a possibility for those who have been freed from sin to continue in sin?" You think it's possible for someone who has been freed from his master sin and made a servant of righteousness to continue to serve his old master of sin? It's not possible!

Please Read Romans chapter 6. (I won't highlight any part so you don't say I am picking)

[b]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord[/b]

Please read!!! Eternal life is a gift! We have been freed from our old man, sin! We can't continue in sin! We are now servants of righteousness! We are to yield our bodies to God to produce bear fruits to holiness! If we yield our members to sin, the result is death BUT WE THANK GOD WHO HAS FREED US FROM SIN AND MADE US SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. just as we yielded our bodies to our old master sin when we were in the flesh, So are we to submit our members to our new master, righteousness. Can our old master sin still have dominion over us? For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace Romans 6:14. Did Paul say Sin may have dominion over us sometimes? No. But sin cannot have dominion or ownership of us anymore because we have been freed from its rule by grace not by law.

How do you subject your body by yourself? Is it not by doing this and not doing that? But there is another way to do that which is by grace. The "doing and not doing this" law keeping attitude is a weak and fruitless way of subjecting or disciplining your body. It cannot lead to glory(the crown of life) but shame and death.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.
1Corinthians 15:10

I can do all this through him who gives me strength
Philippians 4:43

For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it , why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1Corinthians 4:7

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13

The crown of life certainly cannot be salvation but the glory ahead. How do we partake of the glory ahead without partaking in the sufferings of Christ too? The two of them must go together! Like Paul all Christians must fellowship in Christ's suffering and death.

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:1-6

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Romans 8:18
We are saved by grace and called to this...

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Philippians 3:10

We all have a choice, either to live or to eternal destruction.

We have a choice or will but our choice is limited and can can only serve sin. It cannot obey God.

Please read the whole book of Romans And understand why God gave the law.

Rev 2;10

Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.

First of all. The crown of life is not eternal life. Christians have eternal life already. Christians are not enduring death or suffering to earn eternal life but they are suffering because of the love of God in their hearts and the glory ahead.

Please look at this

Romans 5:1-5.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Who can stand till the end? Only those with hope and the love of God. Who/What is the source of their hope and love? Their wisdom? their carnal strength? Their choice? or God? Can't you see? Can't you perceive?
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25

verse 23:

And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds
What could be the purpose of such a search when He had already coded their fate?
The reward is according to their deeds, not according to their destiny.

It's true that we are not to walk according to predestination. Though we know of a fact of God's election or ordained will, we are called to live by faith not predestination. We are not called to "relax" or "live as we want" but we are to walk in grace and do good works.

You said what's the purpose of the search if He God has already coded their destiny. Are you kidding me Is this reasonable to you that God does not know the destinies of men?
But if by "coded" you mean determined. Then you are saying because God has determined a man's destiny, He cannot then be able to search the man's heart. You definitely don't know what you are saying.

Meanwhile. God would judge us according to our deeds in our bodies. True. But the deeds of the righteous are wrought in grace. So they are considered as fruits of the gift of grace or eternal life. There is no room for boasting because it is God's work from beginning to end.

The wicked are judged by their deeds too but their works are not according to the gift of grace or eternal life but they are by their sinful flesh and considered dead works. The wicked boast in their works. Their plea is not the blood of Jesus or the finished work of Christ but their works. They want God to usher them into His presence on the basis of their deeds or works and not His free grace. Oh what a waste!!! They had zeal but not according to knowledge! They heard the gospel of free grace but they rejected it and preferred to put their trust in their works!

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 12:53pm On May 12, 2017

5solas:
Pelagians, Semi-Pelagians (Arminians ) and Open Theists will never interprete this verse correctly,65 as well..
John 6:65

Exactly!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: An Example Of Being Spirit - Filled. by An2elect2(f): 9:21pm On May 11, 2017

That's right it was all about Helen (and now, anybody) not Christ. That's how we know false gospels and Spirits.

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 7:01pm On May 11, 2017

5solas:
Thanks for your comments. It would have thrilled me to see you answer John 6:44,45 . Rather than do that you jumped to John 6:45!
It is clear from the context God draws whom He wills just as He quickens whom He wills not as a result of our MERIT.

John 5:21
.
So ''drawing'' is a gift of His grace, not a reward for our efforts

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

A false Christian is not aware of how blind and deceitful his heart is. His false assurance produces a great confidence in his own opinions.Jonathan Edward

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 6:47pm On May 11, 2017

Splinz:
Are you kidding me? You mean the bible interpreted “foreknowledge” to mean love: “FORE-LOVED=FORE=KNOWN”? Please where is this interpretation in the bible? By the way, don't you think the “FORE=KNOWN” that forms part of your definition still mean to “know before”, which you said is wrong?

I've shown you how "know" is used in the Bible. I would be surprised if you admit you have learned something.

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 2:13pm On May 11, 2017

Splinz:
Oh really?

Wow... Is there any FORE-HATED?

Have you now seen the Bible meaning of "know"? That's how you should study. The Bible must interpret itself.

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 1:45pm On May 11, 2017

JMAN05:
The problem you have seem to stem from total omniscient you attribute to God. It is better to state that God has the ability to foreknow everything, but God doesn't use this ability ALWAYS.

When God created Adam and Eve, didn't foreknow what they would choose. He left such for them. There is no how we can state that God predestined every human without holding Him accountable for the woes of humanity over the past and pressnt centuries. No way!

It means all of us are just acting out a role, and the evil are punished for doing what they are cloned to perform.

The Bible talks of the predestination of the elect and not the non-elect. And Salvation as a gift. These are facts any sincere and objective person would readily accept.

You are bringing in sentiments and emotions into the Bible that's why you can't understand or accept the truth!

For you to be a Freewiller you would have to ignore so many scriptures. And what you have at the end are inconsistencies and a doctrinal system built on contradictions

Study to show thyself approved!

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 12:49pm On May 11, 2017*

Splinz:
Wrong? Okay, teach me. What is foreknowledge?

Yes foreknowledge to a layman or in our world is having information of a thing before time. But it has a deeper meaning in the Bible than just knowing before hand. The "knowledge" in the word is not just information but connotes LOVE. FORE-LOVED=FORE=KNOWN.

Before looking at Romans 8:29, the Bible talks about God "knowing" or "foreknowing" some persons in a special kind of way. Where ever the word "know" appears it does not denote "information" as seen in the context of its use but it implies "love" "special affection"

For examples in Amos 3:2 God, speaking to Israel says,“You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”

The "known" above cannot mean "information" because God knows (in the sense of having information) other families too. But this "known" connotes a special knowing or "affection" "love" You only have I [loved] of all the families of the earth...

God, speaking to Jeremiah, said, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” (Jeremiah 1:5).

God didn't say this about just any prophet. Not because He doesn't know about them but He doesn't know them in a special or affectionate way like He "knew" Jeremiah.

Jesus also used the word “knew” in the sense of personal, intimate awareness. “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers’
It's not possible for Jesus not to know (have information of) these evildoers. Of course he must know everything about them including their wicked deeds. But the "knew" is an intimate kind of knowledge or love.
I Corinthians 8:3, “But if one loves God, one is known by him,” II Timothy 2:19, “the Lord knows those who are His."

The same "special knowing"

More: (You can check other translations)

Genesis 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Psalm 144:3 [b]LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

Hosea 13:5 I knew you in the wilderness,
In the land of great drought.

Galatians 4:9 [b][u]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

There is no how the meaning of "know" as we have seen won't be applied to the word "foreknowledge". Its usage and application is in harmony with the doctrinal system of the Bible.

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknewhe also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

The objects of God foreknowledge(fore-loving/caring) are not the actions or choices of persons but the objects of His foreknowledge are people/specific persons. Therefore, those "fore-loved" are those predestined to be conformed to the image of his son

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 10:13am On May 11, 2017

Splintz of course you are not stupid. I wasn't expecting you to accept your view of God even when it's so obvious. But let's see one of your posts about predestination bit by bit
Splinz:
But then, claiming that some are predestined to inherit eternal life
[i] Is this not biblical?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(op): 10:01am On May 11, 2017

CANTICLES:
Stop twisting the scripture to your own destruction, EVERYONE and ALL in those two scripture is clear .

"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins,
and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of
the whole world." - 1 John 2:2.

He died for the WHOLE WORLD, Is Judas not part of the whole world ? Reply

It's clear you don't want a Bible interpretation!

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 5:12pm On May 10, 2017

Splinz:
This is totally out of syn with what I have up there. Please read and understand.

Unfortunately there isn't going around this. In one of your posts you boldly and wrongly asserted that foreknowledge simply means knowing before hand. You agree that God knows before time everything.

So if this "God" you preach knows before hand a dear friend of yours (whom "he" claims to love so much)won't choose life why does he create him still?

Isn't this "God" you preach powerful enough to change your dear friend's will to choose him and be saved?

This "God" you preach claims to love every individual, has the power to save all of them but wont save them still but make them "savable" Let's not even start yarping about their inability to choose him on their own.

The "God" we preach claims to love his own who are of the world and has determined to save them all not letting anyone perish. The rest he doesn't save because He loves them not.

Which God is Almighty and truly loving?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(op): 4:40pm On May 10, 2017

CANTICLES:
How do you reconcile the bold with the below?

" he [ Jesus] suffered death, so that by the grace of God he
might taste death for everyone. " Heb 2:9

EVERYONE include Judas, does it not ?

"Everyone" or "every man" means all God has given Christ not every individual to walk this earth. This is in concordance with many scriptures that show particular redemption.

Let's look at the passage you quoted. From Hebrews 2:9-17

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the childrenwhich God hath given me.
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

There is the full message.

Your view= Everyone means every individual that has ever lived.
Bible view= Everyone is all the children God gave Christ.

Confirmation: Apart from the facts of particular redemption expressly stated in the Bible, Christ death is the only thing that reconciles men to God. No freewill or works is needed for it to be effective.

vs14,15. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

If no "freewill" or "works" is needed to perfect Christ's suffering and death, it then means God must by the death of Christ give life to those Christ died for in time. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BORN AGAIN. it is after men are born that they receive Christ. John 1:12,13.

Jesus " gave himself a corresponding ransom for ALL - this is what is to be witnessed to in its own time " 1 Tim 2:6

ALL clearly include Judas, does it not ?
[i] You know it doesn't. If Christ's death is sufficient enough to save a man, that man must be saved.
So if he died for all men who ever lived like you think all men must be saved. Because Christ took the death of all he died for and gave them his life. How can they perish still?

1timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Only God has the power to save and bring all men to the knowledge of the truth. Not only does God desire this, He has willed it.
First, Christ gave himself a ransom for all. And then the life he purchased with His blood is being given to all men. Since not everyone is given this life, we know "all" does not mean all men that have existed.

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 9:54am On May 10, 2017

menxer:
you now see the reason why some religious books and doctrines are up for review and updating?
yet some people are clamouring to go back to the old time christian religion.

religious doctrines should be treated like scientific principles that are subject to review in the light of new knowledge and understanding.

you know what, the more i read this OP's book the more i see reasons why more people are leaving Christianity, that book needs to be reviewed and updated or banned; but hey! who am i to suggest that?

You know what is the fact about our world. The truth is very offensive and in direct opposition to how we feel. But it's only the truth that can save us.

You are not suggesting a new thing. People have been "updating and reviewing" the Bible for long now that's why we have freewillism. It's very popular and readily accepted by natural men and women because it has no offense in it. It tells them their destinies are in their arms and makes God a standby or NOT omnipotent or omniscient.

Walk into an average church with your inoffensive beliefs, they may not accept your terms but they would identify you as one of them because your message isn't offensive.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 9:43am On May 10, 2017

Splinz:
Oh sorry, I'm not arguing for/against Op's book. I'm only sharing what is predestination which the book seems to discussed.

But then, claiming that some are predestinated to inherit eternal life and some, eternal death, doesn't portray God as loving but our very enemy. Yes. He is a monster who having predestinated some to commit evey conceivable sin, still went ahead and condemned these ones that were simply doing His biddings. What sort of a God is that? Is God then lying and being hypocritical when He said that He wants ALL to come to repentance and be saved? (Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9)

Of course no. Let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4).

This does not portray God as loving?Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What else does?

Let's look at what you consider as loving: God love Mr A(who is a slave of sin). Knew before time that Mr A won't choose life but rather death. Why are you not also mad at God for going ahead to bring into this world Mr A He love even when he knows his "fate" beforehand. Isn't this unloving to you?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(op): 9:25am On May 10, 2017

CANTICLES:
Very Good.

Now lets refer back to the Op

Absurdity 101
* Jesus died for everyone...but everyone is not saved

[/hr]

You mean Judas is not saved ? So aren't you sharing in propagating the same Thing you called Absurdity ?

Lol. If Judas wasn't saved, it means Christ didn't die for him. Simple

Christianity Etc › Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(op): 6:14pm On May 09, 2017

CANTICLES:
@ bold, Is Judas Iscariot Saved ?

John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 3:09pm On May 09, 2017

Still on Chapter I

This is a doctrine which deals with some of the most profound truths revealed in Scripture and it will abundantly repay careful study on the part of Christian people. If any are disposed to reject it without first making a careful study of its claims, let them not forget that it has commanded the firm belief of multitudes of the wisest and best men that have ever lived, and that there must, therefore, be strong reasons in favor of its truth. Perhaps a few words of caution should be given here to the effect that while the doctrine of Predestination is a great and blessed Scripture truth and a fundamental doctrine of several churches, it must never be looked upon as the sum and substance of the Reformed Faith. As Dr. Kuyper has said, "It is a mistake to discover the specific character of Calvinism in the doctrine of Predestination, or in the authority of Scripture. For Calvinism all these are logical consequences, not the point of departure "foliage bearing ness to the luxuriousness of its growth, but not the root from which it is sprouted." If the doctrine is detached from its natural association with other truths and exhibited alone, the effect is exaggerated. The system is then distorted and misrepresented. A statement of any principle, in order to be true, must present it in harmony with all the other elements of the system of which it forms a part. The Westminster Confession of Faith is a balanced statement of this system as a whole, and it gives due prominence to those other doctrines, such as the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, the personality of the Holy Spirit, the Inspiration of the Scriptures, Miracles, the Atonement, Resurrection, the personal return of Christ, and so forth. Furthermore, we do not deny that the Arminians hold many and important truths. But we do hold that a full and complete exposition of the Christian system can be given only on the basis of the truth as set forth in the Calvinistic system. In the minds of most people the doctrine of Predestination and Calvinism are practically synonymous terms. This. however, should not be the case, and the too close identification of the two has doubtless done much to prejudice many people against the Calvinistic system. The same is true in regard to a too close identification of Calvinism and the "Five Points," as will be shown later. While Predestination and the Five Points are all essential elements of Calvinism, they by no means constitute its whole. The doctrine of Predestination has been made the subject of almost endless discussion, much of which, it must be admitted, was for the purpose of softening its outlines or of explaining it away. "The consideration of this great doctrine," says Cunningham, "runs up into the most profound and inaccessible subjects that can occupy the minds of men,--the nature and attributes, the purposes and the actings of the infinite and incomprehensible Jehovah, "viewed especially in their bearings upon the everlasting destinies of His intelligent creatures. The peculiar nature of the subject certainly demands, in right reason, that it should ever be approached and considered with the profoundest humility, caution, and reverence, as it brings us into contact, on the one side, with a subject so awful and overwhelming as the everlasting misery of an innumerable multitude of our fellow men. Many men have discussed the subject in this spirit, but many also have indulged in much presumptuous and irreverent speculation regarding it. There is probably no subject that has occupied more of the attention of intelligent men in every age. It has been most fully discussed in all of its bearings, philosophical, theological, and practical; and if there be any subject of speculation with respect to which we are warranted in saying that it has been exhausted, it is this. "Some, at least, of the topics comprehended under this general head have been discussed by almost every philosopher of eminence in ancient as well as in modern times. All that the highest ability, ingenuity, and acuteness can effect, has been brought to bear upon the discussion of this subject; and the difficulties attaching to it have never been fully solved, and we are well warranted in saying that they never will, unless God gives us either a fuller revelation or greatly enlarged capacities, "although, perhaps, it would be more correct to say that, from the very nature of the case, a finite being can never fully comprehend it since this would imply that he could fully comprehend the infinite mind." [Cunningham, Historical Theology, II, pp. 418, 419.]
In the development of this book much use has been made of other books in order that this one may contain the very cream and quintessence of the best authors on the subject. Consequently many of the arguments found here are from men very superior to the present writer. Indeed, when he glances at the whole he is inclined to say with a celebrated French writer, "I have culled a bouquet of varied flowers from men's gardens, and nothing is my own but the string that binds them." Yet much is his own, especially as regards the organization and arrangement of materials. Throughout this book the terms "predestination" and "foreordination" are used as exact synonyms, the choice being deterrained only by taste. If a distinction be desired the word "foreordination" can perhaps better be used where the thing spoken of is an event in history or in nature, while "predestination" can refer mainly to the final destiny of persons. The Scripture quotations have been made from the American Standard Version of the Bible rather than from the King James Version since the former is more accurate. The author wishes particularly to thank Dr. Samuel G. Craig, Editor of CHRISTIANITY TODAY, Dr. Frank H. Stevenson, President of the Board of Trustees of Westminster Theological Seminary, Dr. Cornelius Van Til, Professor of Apologetics in Westminster Theological Seminary, Dr. C. W. Hodge, Professor of Systematic Theology in Princeton Theological Seminary, under whose supervision this material in much shorter form was originally prepared, and Rev. Henry Atherton, General Secretary of the Sovereign Grace Union, London, England, for valuable assistance. This book, we repeat, is designed to set forth and defend the Reformed Faith, commonly known as Calvinism. It is not directed against any particular denomination, but against Arminianism in general. The author is a member of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A., but is well aware of the radical departure which the rank and file of Presbyterians have made from their own creed. The book is sent forth with the hope that those who profess to hold the Reformed Faith may have a better understanding of the great truths which are here treated and may value their heritage more highly; and that those who have not known this system, or who have opposed it, may be convinced of its truth and come to love it. The question which faces us then, is, Has God from all eternity foreordained all things which come to pass? If so, what evidence do we have to that effect. and how is the fact consistent with the free agency of rational creatures and with His own perfections?

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 1:54pm On May 09, 2017*

THE REFORMED DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION

Chapter I

Introduction

The purpose of this book is not to set forth a new system of theological thought, but to give a re-statement to that great system which is known as the Reformed Faith or Calvinism, and to show that this is beyond all doubt the teaching of the Bible and of reason. The doctrine of Predestination receives comparatively little attention in our day and it is very imperfectly understood even by those who are supposed to hold it most loyally. It is a doctrine, however, which is contained in the creeds of most evangelical churches and which has had a remarkable influence both in Church and State. The official standards of the various branches of the Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in Europe and America are thoroughly Calvinistic. The Baptist and Congregational Churches, although they have no formulated creeds, have in the main been Calvinistic if we may judge from the writings and teachings of their representative theologians. The great free church of Holland and almost all the churches of Scotland are Calvinistic. The Established Church of England and her daughter, the Episcopal Church of America, have a Calvinistic creed in the Thirty-nine Articles. The Whitefield Methodists in Wales to this day bear the name of "Calvinistic Methodists." Among the past and present advocates of this doctrine are to be found some of the world's greatest and wisest men. It was taught not only by Calvin, but by Luther, Zwingli, Melanchthon (although Melanchthon later retreated toward the Semi-Pelagian position), by Bullinger, Bucer, and all of the outstanding leaders in the Reformation. While differing on some other points they agreed on this doctrine of Predestination and taught it with emphasis. Luther's chief work, "The Bondage of the Will," shows that he went into the doctrine as heartily as did Calvin himself. He even asserted it with more warmth and proceeded to much harsher lengths in defending it than Calvin ever did. And the Lutheran Church today as judged by the Formula of Concord holds the doctrine of Predestination in a modified form. The Puritans in England and those who early settled in America, as well as the Covenanters in Scotland and the Huguenots in France, were thorough-going Calvinists; and it is little credit to historians in general that this fact has been so largely passed over in silence. This faith was for a time held by the Roman Catholic Church, and at no time has that church ever openly repudiated it. Augustine's doctrine of Predestination set against him all the half-hearted elements in the Church and arrayed him against every man who belittled the sovereignty of God. He overcame them, and the doctrine of Predestination entered the belief of the universal Church. The great majority of the creeds of historic Christendom have set forth the doctrines of Election, Predestination, and final Perseverance, as will readily be seen by any one who will make even a cursory study of the subject. On the other hand Arminianism existed for centuries only as a heresy on the outskirts of true religion, and in fact it was not championed by an organized Christian church until the year 1784, at which time it was incorporated into the system of doctrine of the Methodist Church in England. The great theologians of history, Augustine, Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Zanchius, Owen, Whitefield, Toplady, and in more recent times Hodge, Dabney, Cunningham, Smith, Shedd, Warfield, and Kuyper, held this doctrine and taught it with force. That they have been the lights and ornaments of the highest type of Christianity will be admitted by practically all Protestants. Furthermore, their works on this great subject have never been answered. Then, too, when we stop to consider that among nonChristian religions Mohammedanism has so many millions who believe in some kind of Predestination, that the doctrine of Fatalism has been held in some form or other in several heathen countries, and that the mechanistic and deterministic philosophies have exerted such great influences in England, Germany, and America, we see that this doctrine is at least worthy of careful study. From the time of the Reformation up until about one hundred years ago these doctrines were boldly set forth by the great majority of the ministers and teachers in the Protestant churches; but today we find far the greater majority holding and teaching other systems. It is only rarely that we now come across those who can be called "Calvinists without reserve." We may quite appropriately apply to our own churches the words of Toplady in regard to the Church of England: "Time has been when the Calvinistic doctrines were considered and defended as the Palladium of our Established Church; by her bishops and clergy, by the universities, and the whole body of the laity. It was (during the reigns of Edward VI, Queen Elizabeth, James I, and the greater part of Charles I) as difficult to meet with a clergyman who did not preach the doctrines of the Church of England, as it is now to find one who does. We have generally forsaken the principles of the Reformation, and Ichabod, or 'the glory is departed,' has been written on most of our pulpits and church-doors ever since." [Preface to Zanchius' Predestination, p. 16.] The tendency in our enlightened age is to look upon Calvinism as a worn-out and obsolete creed. At the beginning of his splendid article on "The Reformed Faith in the Modern World," Prof. F. E. Hamilton says, "It seems to be tacitly assumed by a large number of people in the Presbyterian Church today that Calvinism has been outgrown in religious circles. In fact, the average church member, or even minister of the gospel, is inclined to look upon a person who declares that he believes in Predestination, with a glance of amused tolerance. It seems incredible to them that there should exist such an intellectual curiosity as a real Calvinist, in an age of enlightenment like the present. As for seriously examining the arguments for Calvinism, the idea never enters their heads. It is deemed as out of date as the Inquisition, or the idea of a fiat world, and is looked upon as one of the fantastic schemes of thought that men held before the age of modern science." Because of this present day attitude toward Calvinism, and because of the general lack of information concerning these doctrines, we regard the subject of this book as one of great importance. It was Calvin who wrought out this system of theological thought with such logical clearness and emphasis that it has ever since borne his name. He did not, of course, originate the system but only set forth what appeared to him to shine forth so clearly from the pages of Holy Scripture. Augustine had taught the essentials of the system a thousand years before Calvin was born, and the whole body of the leaders of the Reformation movement taught the same. But it was given to Calvin with his deep knowledge of Scripture, his keen intellect and systematizing genius, to set forth and defend these truths more clearly and ably than had ever been done before. We call this system of doctrine "Calvinism," and accept the term "Calvinist" as our badge of honor; yet names are mere conveniences. "We might," says Warburton, "quite as appropriately, and with equally as much reason, call gravitation 'Newtonism,' because the principles of gravitation were first dearly demonstrated by the great philosopher Newton. Men had been fully conversant with the facts of gravitation for long ages before Newton was born. These facts had indeed been visible from the first days of creation, inasmuch as gravitation was one of the laws which God ordained for the governing of the universe. But the principles of gravitation were not fully known, and the far-reaching effects of its power and influence were not understood until they were discovered by Sir Isaac Newton. So, too, was it with what men call Calvinism. The inherent principles of it had been in existence for long ages before Calvin was born. They had indeed been visible as patent factors in the world's history from the time of man's creation. But inasmuch as it was Calvin who first formulated these principles into a more or less complete system, that system, or creed, if you will, and likewise those principles which are embodied in it, came to bear his name." [Calvinism, p. 2.] We may add further that the names Calvinist, Lutheran, Puritan, Pilgrim, Methodist, Baptist, and even the name Christian, were originally nicknames. But usage has established their validity and their meaning is well understood. The quality which gave such force to Calvin's teaching was his close adherence to the Bible as an inspired and authoritative book. He has been referred to as preeminently the biblical theologian of his age. Where the Bible led, there he went; where it failed him, there he stopped short. This refusal to go beyond what is written, coupled with a ready acceptance of what the Bible did teach, gave an air of finality and positiveness to his declarations which made them offensive to his critics. Because of his keen insight and power of logical development he has often been referred to as merely a speculative theologian. That he was a speculative genius of the first order is, of course, not to be denied; and in the cogency of his logical analysis he possessed a weapon which made him terrible to his enemies. But it was not on these gifts that he depended primarily when forming and developing his theological system. Calvin's active and powerful intellect led him to sound the depths of every subject which he touched. In his investigations about God and the plan of redemption he went very far, penetrating into mysteries concerning which the average man seldom if ever dreams. He brought to light a side of Scripture which had as yet been very much in the shade and stressed those deep truths which in the ages preceding the Reformation had comparatively escaped notice in the Church. He brought to light forgotten doctrines of the apostle Paul, and fastened them in their full and complete sense upon one great branch of the Christian Church. This doctrine of Predestination has perhaps raised a greater storm of opposition, and has doubtless been more misrepresented and caricatured, than any other doctrine in the Scriptures. "To mention it before some," says Warburton, "is like shaking the proverbial red flag before an enraged bull. It arouses the fiercest passions of their nature, and brings forth a torrent of abuse and calumny. But, because men have fought against it, or because they hate it, or perhaps misunderstand it, is no reasonable or logical cause why we should turn the doctrine adrift, or cast it behind our backs. The real question, the all-important question, is not: How do men receive it? but, Is it true?" [Calvinism, p. 23.] One reason why many people, even supposedly educated people, are so quick to reject the doctrine of Predestination is because of pure ignorance of what the doctrine really is and of what the Bible teaches in regard to it. This ignorance is not at all surprising when one considers the almost complete lack of Bible training in our day. A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different book than they assume it to be. The tremendous influence which this doctrine has exerted in the history of Europe and America should at least entitle it to a respectful hearing.

Furthermore, we submit that according to all the laws of reason and logic a person has no right to deny the truth of a doctrine without first having studied in an unprejudiced manner the evidence on both sides.

Cc 5Solas Menxer

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 1:37pm On May 09, 2017

5solas:
Thanks An2elect. I am excited. I will be posting later. We should have a reading plan, say a chapter a week which may be posted. Thereafter observations, comments, questions can be asked .
Who was Loraine Boettner?

You are welcome 5Solas! Thank you, I'll be posting chapter 1 here very soon and like you said we post our comments, questions accordingly.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 1:18pm On May 09, 2017*

menxer:
An interesting read.
i will be asking questions as i read along. i hope that is allowed.

You are welcome Yes feel free to ask any question

"Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself, what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny; but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal death for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say he is predestinated either to life or to death." [ Institutes, Book III, Ch. XXI, sec. 5.]

if the above is true, how can one predestinated to eternal death be saved by "accepting Jesus as personal Lord and saviour?"

I think before considering anything. The first questions we ought to ask ourselves are: Is this a fact in the Bible? If yes... Is it worth looking at? And how is it defined in the Bible?

That aside, the Bible is very clear about the predestination of the elect. This shouldn't even be debated seeing that they are expressly stated or implied in so many passages. One very good example
is Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Before time began, From the foundation of the world, God chose some people to be called and justified in time and be glorified hereafter. It then follows that no one would be called to be a Christian (because a Christian is a person justified by the faith of Christ) without first being predestined.

Moreover, the popular envangelical sub-clause "accepting Christ as personal Lord and saviour" is same as saying Christ isn't the saviour yet until we make him one and His death not enough but only made all he died for "savable". I.e It is insufficient to save a man including changing that man's heart and will towards God.
If truly Christ's death is enough for those he died for, all of them would be brought to life in time by God himself. Hence, receiving Him isnt borne out of a man's will but God's.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Historical Facts! Freewillism Existed For Centuries As A Heresy. by An2elect2(op): 9:28am On May 09, 2017*

Good morning everyone This is a discussion thread about historical Christianity and salient church doctrines. It's important to every diligent student of the Bible to know what the Bible holds as truth, what the early churches believed and what the best and wisest men in history preached. And how passionate they were about what they preached. Guess? every wise person would consider why they held on to those truths even in the face of great opposition. Surely there has to be something in it!

Brother 5Solas and any other person with sound contributions and/or questions are officially welcome.

We would commence with a book by Loraine Boettner
THE REFORMED DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION You can download the PDF and it's corresponding audio files ( all on Google)

WHO IS LORRAINE BOETTNER?

Loraine Boettner (March 7, 1901 – January 3, 1990) was an American theologian, teacher, and author in the Reformed tradition. He is best known for his works on predestination, Roman Catholicism, and Postmillennial eschatology.

The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination and Roman Catholicism. Boettner's critical commentary on the Roman Catholic faith. This book has been called by its critics "The Anti-Catholic Bible" because of the author's aim to antagonize the Catholic Church, which, according to them, "has gravely compromised his intellectual objectivity".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loraine_Boettner

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Absurdities Of Free Will. by An2elect2(op): 8:31am On May 09, 2017

freeradical:
So God is now partial by preselecting us even before the beginning for salvation and leaving the rest of humanity doomed for destruction.

See why I say you guys should look up to the teaching body of the Church to guide your interpretation of sacred Scripture. God's omniscient nature is the reason behind those passages you guys are misconstruing for predestination. When we say God is omniscient it's because he exists outside time. So he knows the end even from the beginning. In the end he has seen it all play out and this inspired the writings we hold sacred as scripture.

Everything that is written exists in time. So God knows about it. This doesn't mean he directly interferes with our choices. He respects them so much that he made us masters of our own destinies. If u deceive yourself that because u think u were chosen and you fail to live justly u will suffer the loss of your soul.

So let's be Wise and pray to God for the strength to follow him all the way to the end, trusting not in our own righteousness but in his bountiful, merciful and awesome saving power.

God bless you all

You are "playing safe". "Playing safe" isn't a Christian thing!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Simple Faith In The Finished Work Of Christ. by An2elect2(op): 11:18am On May 07, 2017

paxonel:
A false Christian is anybody who belongs to another religion eg a Muslim, coming among people in christendom,pretending he is one of them,whereas his heart is in Islam. We have cases like that among early christians the Bible, but we hardly see such these days.
But anybody who is truly a believer,whether he has false assurance or guinuine assurance of whatever in christendom. He can never be classified as a false Christian became he is justified by his Faith not by his works. This tells you that if a Christian brother commit a sin, hold him responsible, not God

LOL just tell me you are joking and we would have a good laugh together

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Simple Faith In The Finished Work Of Christ. by An2elect2(op): 9:18am On May 07, 2017

Pchinak:
It's alright. Just so you know, there's nothing wrong with pointing someone to any scripture passage, same way there's nothing wrong in asking someone politely to explain his or herself before drawing inference. I'll try my best to remind myself that threads created by you are not up for discussions next time.

Explain yourself, simple!

Pchinak be careful lest you be like the devil who twists scriptures, and you to your own destruction!

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Simple Faith In The Finished Work Of Christ. by An2elect2(op): 9:15am On May 07, 2017

paxonel:
It will take someone who has read and summarize the whole New Testament and meditate deeply using his mental thinking without the influence of religious sentiments,to understand what i am saying here.

Do you know there are false Christians too? I narrowed this down to false assurance and genuine assurance among people in Christendom

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Simple Faith In The Finished Work Of Christ. by An2elect2(op): 8:06pm On May 06, 2017

paxonel:
You are right!
But it's just that, the saving faith you are talking about is the Christian faith which is the christianity we practice as a religion. A lot of Christians don't know that.
In ancient times such as the Bible days, the word Faith was used in place of religion. Today, we use the word religion without resolving it actual meaning.
The goodnews is that we were provisionally saved by our religion(faith) which was established by Christ at his resurrection.
It's as that simple, very simple to be true.
Where the difficulty lies is for non Christians like muslims,athiests,judaismists etc to simply believe,the moment they believe in their heart(heart was another ancient word used to depict
LOVE FOR GOD,not necessarily love for man,as it requires love for God for anyone to believe that Jesus is the Christ).at that point non christians believe by conviction and are converted into christianity through preaching or otherwise,they are saved like that. Nothing else attach to it.
And if you were luckily to born into a Christian home,you came with salvation inside you.
Simple.
Like i said,a lot of Christians do not understand this things so they are busy preaching to convince the wrong people to work for their salvation.
In summary,the saving Faith is nothing but our Faith and is a simple one,but it is we Christians that are making it complex, while the non saving Faith are other religions apart from christianity.

Oh!! What are you saying!!!

Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Simple Faith In The Finished Work Of Christ. by An2elect2(op): 8:02pm On May 06, 2017

Pchinak:
Exactly why I didn't reply to the other empty vessel that quoted me above. I was actually thinking we are two anonymous individuals having scripture in common, and willing to enter a chat of fraternal expose' on scripture. Go back to my Posts, how many sentences in them have been mine? They have mostly been quotes from scripture, yet look at how disturbed you have been, see how I have been profiled already, and called names. You simply Jump into conclusion of who I am or what I have in mind, then this your conclusion being different from your held unto belief now nullifies even the scriptures I quote, while I on my part was able to Identify and agree with something in your post. It's funny when Christians behave like those they seek to convert and still feel superior. Let me speak no more, what does a law keeping Pharisaic Christian have to offer to the mouth piece of the Holy Spirit?

Shallom.

It is not hard to tell a self-righteous person. They use scripture to oppose scripture.

Person A explains why righteousness is by faith alone referencing the Bible.

Funny, Person B just walks in and quotes james: "faith without works is dead" and goes away. LOL
Anyone with a brain will know where Person B is going with that. If truly he isn't trying to play "righteous" and has a clear conscience, he would explain himself. No one can see his heart but God, we would need him to do better than dropping scriptures that seem to contradict what Person A is saying. Simple!

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