₦airaland Forum

jared007:
pls tell us d genuine pastors u know and why u know they are genuine?

felixomor:
Stop telling Lies.
Just admit your sin, correct yourself and move on.

It will not kiLL you.
Pride resides in the heart of a fool.

felixomor:
I asked u a simple question.
This is not the answer of the question.
If your heart was clean, u wouldn't dodge the question

felixomor:
How do u know he doesn't make studying bible his priority?

I hope u know lying is a sin?

ilynem:
Studying the Bible is my priority ma.

Pastafarian:
it is but I'm asking why are you against it if the Bible wasn't the reason? can you give any reason outside the bible why you're against it?

ilynem:
I stand strongly against homosexuality as all Christians should. I am speaking about how the society tends to view them now. People like Brobisky (or whatever is his name) are now celebrities and news about them even gets to the front page of our beloved Nairaland. We as a people need to stand up against this abomination before it eats into our children.

Pastafarian:
and your reason(s) for being totally against it is that the Bible forbids it, right?

ilynem:
And you can tell this how?

ilynem:
But when we tell them, they call us homophobic or whatever name. Even the media portrays gay as being normal. Even in Nigeria. Do you know less than 4% of Americans are gay? But if you are conversant with American media you might be forced to think more than 50% of Americans are gay just because of the way the media pushes this act on our faces. This is the society we live in now.

ilynem:
You people are funny . He gives, problem. He doesn't problem. What do pastors have to do gain your approval?

KingEbukasBlog:
So you saying people are predestined for hell ? If yes , provide bible verses to support that .

KingEbukasBlog:
Why the obsession with freewill and predestination ? Where do you actually stand ?

5solas:
Nice one!
My greatest shock is how he or anyone else can argue salvation can be lost from Philippians 3!
It is so anti-work (for salvation ).

yak:
even in my church, I insist that tithing is not bad but should not become a doctrine or believe. I have tried to get the justification for tithing in the new testament and even listened to my spirit for justification. am still not convinced. the early church lived by contribution and offering as the Lord makes Providence for them.
it is even more embarrassing that the Luther 95 Thesis that gave birth to the Protestant movement totally disagree with the idea of "buying favour" with tithe. meanwhile, am heading to Martin Luther thesis for further studies. hope I can get the entire document online

JMAN05:
My dear i know the meaning of context as you have seen. you do detach verses out of context.



Of course, it is. for one thing, no one can earn eternal life because you cannot qualify by just your own conduct. no one can live without sinning, as such, no one merits it.

The way to be saved through the sacrificial death of Christ was made available by God himself, not any human. Nor is salvation by works of law. Since no one can live perfectly, but has to be helped by Christ's sacrifice, eternal life is a gift from God. however, this does not mean that it comes without effort from those God give it.

Paul says he pummel his body and leads it as a slave so that he does not lose the race. This shows that his effort is needed to make his calling sure. You ve not provided any point against that.

Phil 3:12-14 reads:

"Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see[b] if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me[/b]. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus"

Paul says he is pressing on to see IF he MAY lay hold on it. And it is interesting to note that all this "pressing on" comes after he has been "selected"(or apprehended of christ).

2. KJV says "press toward the mark for the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus".

All the boldfaced words/phrases shows diligence to attain something you dont get by sitting one place after selection. Notice that it is called PRIZE. That word conveys the sense of reward for an effort one made. It is still a gift cos no matter the effort, you cant be perfect, but God rewards your hardwork for His name. read Heb 6:10.

see boldfaced - Tell me the plausibility of that exhortation if one cant retire into willful sin after being called? it says do not "let". An effort, dont you think?

lets analyse this: YOU obeyed from the heart. This is a comment about an effort they made to ward off bad habits, dont you think so?

Now, he goes further, "just as YOU presented YOUR members as slaves.... so NOW present YOUR members as slaves of righteousness". This shows that when they were living as gentiles, they were the ones who, on their own practiced unrighteousness, now they are urged to make a change, by PRESENTING their bodies for righteousness. Dear, this implies effort from the recipients of the letter. God didnt make them unrighteous people when they were gentiles.

Again, you misinterpreted that. Sin must not dominate over them does not mean that this CANNOT happen after being called. Demas, Hymenaeus and Philetus example will fault such claims. He is rather urging them to present their bodies for righteousness, not giving way to sin. verse 15:

What follows? Are we to commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness? Certainly not![/i]"

What was his point? that since grace is available (a means to forgive sin through Jesus sacrifice), they should not go on sinning presuming on God's forgiveness thru the ransom, for such conduct will amount to slavery to sin. verse 16 buttress the point. in verse 17, he acknowleged that they were obedient from the heart from the doctrine delivered to them. this conveys personal effort. verse 19 gave the exhortation to continue presenting themselves as slaves for righteousness. They are the ones to do the presentation, not God.

Another example:

In corinth, we find this incident: 1cor. 5:1,2 - "Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife. 2 And are you proud of it? Should you not rather mourn, so that the man who committed this deed should be taken away from your midst?"

This shows that someone atleast were living in sin after being called back then. He then counseled:

verse 11 - "But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man"

- First, this counsel would have been meaningless had any who was called never could live in sin again. Secondly, it shows that some back then were already living in sin, and needed to be disfellowshiped to clean the church. Some sinners were also found in other congregations, read Rev 2:15, 16.

The glory God gives to His servants is associated to receiving their heavenly reward. So you cant gain eternal life without glory.

As we go further along your interpretation, does it mean that according to that Rev 3:11, one can prove unfaithful thru the trials, and then gain eternal life and not glory? I dont see how that looks plausible.

Secondly, the scripture says "crown of life". That to me points to extending eternal life. dont you think?

There is "crown of glory" and "crown of righteousness" mentioned in the bible. This one is "crown of life".

Thirdly, after mentioning that the crown of life is what God promised to the ones who loves Him in James 1:12, chapter 2:5 indicates that the kingdom was what He promised to those who love Him.

"Isn't Salvation a reward"

Paul is here attributing the hardwork he puts in to God. It is good to give all praises to God who gave you the power to do what you do. If God hard not sent the ransom, he would not be opportune to make such exploits. This does not mean that God is remote-controlling your powers. Nope.

Rom 2:12 says "keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling"



Of course, God can help you, but wont do the work for you.

it will appear as if this verse is stating that God remotes people(eg the Philipians) to do His will. No, God's working or energizing you is if you ask for His help, and do your part. This could be seen when we move forward in that verse to 21, we ll see that some who do not avail themselves of Gods help and do their part, would make the wrong choice.

luk 13:24 says "Exert yourselves vigorously (strive to enter kjv) to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able". We need to strive for the kingdom, God will now help.

God wills that all be saved, but any who do not want to avail themselves of God's help will die eternally altho Gods will is that all be saved.

God sent His son so that "so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life". john 3:16

Whoever makes the choice to believe in Jesus, will be saved. That is a fruitful choice if you ask me.

Rev 22:17 "And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free". That wish would be a fruitful one, dont you think?

At Josh 24:15 we see that Joshua's choice is a good one that will lead to salvation. No so?

How do we arrive at all these wrong conclusions? Simple.

When we believe that we are not dead in sins and trespasses Ephesians 2:1,2.

And when we believe Salvation is not a gift but a reward or part-gift. Ephesians 2:8,9.

5solas:
Thanks so much for the question. No, it is for believers. Though if it is warranted, it can be explained to them. For example, if an unbeliever has heard about it and asks to know the Bible's position,the child of God must not flinch at all in their answer.The truth breaks and heals. It can offend them temporary and later be the means God uses to save them. It can also offend permanently , but in that case the believer has done their job faithfully. The outcome of our labours depends on our God and not us.
Also to be noted is that this doctrine strikes at the root of ''freewill '' which is the direct opposite of predestination. The sooner the sinner knows that their salvation is not in their hands to turn on and off like a light bulb, as they please, the better for them.
Predestination of course is comprised of two parts- election and reprobation .
Election is the choice of certain persons unto everlasting life by God before the foundation of the world. Not because of their merits but for His own purpose and grace .Reprobation is God’s passing by of certain persons and leaving them in their sins.
Yes! There is not only an election of persons unto salvation there is also a bypass of persons by God.

John Wesley said he would have believed the doctrine of election if it did not imply predestination.Half of his heresies have not been told. The early Protestants however believed in both and their writings give witness to this.
Election is a very comforting doctrine for believers and it ought to be taught to them . What if it is done during the church service? What if it is done in a bible study or Sunday school? How can we be sure we will not have an unbeliever present ? And must we teach it in a corner? Thus to teach election we must also be ready to teach reprobation, as far as it is warranted.
For reprobation see Jude 4 and 1 Peter 2:8. It is not only implied by election but affirmed by the Bible.

Thank you so much 5Solas. You just cleared my doubts.

About reprobation very true. Even if it's just a verse, as long as its clearly defined, then it is true. I was wrong to think God is only actively working in the vessels of honour and passively in those of dishonour. If I accept that some are made for honour, I must accept also that some others are for dishonour.

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:8
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

It's God's world

5solas:
The author defines his purpose.He is not saying anything new. Only to give witness that Calvinism-the system that affirms salvation CANNOT be lost is TRUE!Another name for it, he says, is the Reformed Faith.This is the faith of the reformers. They didn't believe salvation could be lost.Calvinism is also synonymous with,"Once Saved, Always Saved",the doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Saints", "Eternal Security", the "Doctrine of Grace, e.t.c



The writer asserts that the doctrine of predestination is given so little attention (in his day). It is even less so now. He asserts the importance of this doctrine which the early reformers were all at one with though they had their disagreements.He states that it was in the creeds of all Protestants. It is in the creeds still of some churches which teach against Calvinism. The creeds of the early Protestants was Calvinistic. In contrast to Calvinism, Armnianism existed as a heresy for centuries!
Arminianism is the view that a believer CAN lose salvation. It existed for centuries as a heresy! It was not championed by an organised church until 1784!Imagine that!


All notable Christians believed in Predestination and were Calvinistic in their theology.
He goes on to commend Calvin for his work on predestination. He also notes rhat Calvinism is not about Calvin but the gospel.

5solas:
It is not derailed though. @An2elect Make your comments on the chapter and let's move on. The focus should be on the book!

menxer:
that is because the predestination which this thread sets out to discuss predestinated the derailment.

frank317:
No she was supposed to b prayed for by her powerful man of God husband​.

They spend hours on the pulpit saying with their access to the creator sickness is not their portion. They say by his strips they are healed not by the effort of ordinary human doctors.

We are talking access to the creator, the one whom once you have faith in, all u need is say the word and u are healed.

If Oyedepo cannot speak the word and heal his wife what has he really be boasting about? Why does he gather ya lot in Shiloh asking u to come with all manner of sickness instead of asking u to go to the hospital like he wisely did with his wife.

U feel like slapping him because u actually lack the capacity to think deep. Only vain people tend to use their palms to slap instead of using their brain to think.

menxer:
Is that why you avoided answering this:

The will or testament comes to effect at the death of the testator, that is if the testator dies and remains dead. In this case Jesus is said to have come back to life, does the will still come to effect since the testator in this case is still alive?

OK, he died to activate the testament then comes back to life, meaning divine law can be circumvented?

I don't believe the Bible but I believe the Truth wherever I find it.

menxer:
No that is not my question.

Those that recieved the law did not know grace will replace it, we that are in grace now do not know what will replace it.

menxer:
Who gave the law?
God

Who gave the grace?
God

Yet it's said God knows the end from the beginning, but didn't know law would not do the work of grace.
Makes sense right?

Syncan:
Don't worry about that, in the earlier centuries, even before we compiled the bible, our ratio to heretics was a lot more than what it is today to protestants.

menxer:
.

The law was given to the earthly Israelites but Grace to the spiritual Israelites, right?

Yes!!!!!

Nomswilli:
its clear that u were properly brainwashed.... If u no tell me the name of ur Church.. Then no quote me again cos I no go respond.....make we start there then we enter bible

menxer:
So Jesus could not preach grace & faith to his own people but directed it be preached to the gentiles? Is that not deception?

Are you understanding this, God blinded the Isrealites not to believe though Jesus came to them and was among them?
God provoked Isrealites to jealous and granted gentiles true repentance?
Are you serious?

Yes! Read Romans 9 so you understand why. At the end, they would be brought in. God would through the mercy of the gentiles have mercy upon them. Romans 11.

If God could do that to his own chosen people, can you imagine what he would do to the gentiles?

They say God doesn't change yet by this your comment he appears to be very fickle.