₦airaland Forum

andrewbaba44:
Lmao ,me and emotional arguements on the same sentence ?

I be like Hensmugu mumudeyhouse brain problem and their fellow shekpites for for your eyes ?

It’s well my broda

Nobody is comparing you to anyone. You might like Phillip Coutinho but that does not mean he has that much of a brand. David Beckham was not better than many players but his brand implied that you'd typically pay him more than the players that were better than him.

To ignore someone's brand when you are discussing how much should be paid for them is an emotional way of arguing because it is not based on observable facts but based on your preference.

MorataFC:
I need more explanation on this.

Did you hear the amounts Messi was offered to play in Saudi Arabia? Would Messi have justified that amount by his game play alone?

andrewbaba44:
Aston Villa rejecting such amount from him doesn’t mean he should be worth 100M few years later

Even coutinho weh be bigger and better player no suppose pass 70M ,but you think grealish was worth his 100M

Emotional arguments that can easily be shredded.

So just go back to what you can defend with facts. I never told you the player was worth 100M. I said his brand and importance to Aston Villa was. That is why City paid to release him from that clause.

andrewbaba44:
Bigger brand una

Bigger brand because of English media ? Lmao

You wan compare key player for juventus wey play ucl final and key player for Aston Villa ?

Bros abeg nau

How do you think the valuation for players is established? Why do you think Neymar was expensive from Brazil compared to Gotze who was playing for a bigger club and scored a world cup final winning goal?

andrewbaba44:
Pogba was at least worth 60 million from his 100 million unlike grealish wey no suppose pass 30M

Meanwhile in 2018 or so, Aston Villa rejected 40M for Grealish from Tottenham. So what would his value have been 3 years later now at his prime?

andrewbaba44:
Pogba was at least worth 60 million from his 100 million unlike grealish wey no suppose pass 30M

Pogba'a worth is based on what?

Bear in mind, Grealish has a FAR bigger brand than Pogba.

pkasso:
I still feel Pep did Phillips dirty sha. The weight jibe and then recently apologising for not playing him as much He(Kalvin) would have wanted. Which kain eye service be that one? Pep's tough love approach can be brutal on players with certain dispositions and i think Phillips is one of them. In my head, i can almost picture Pep berating him for playing 10 degrees narrower or for not offering an overload at the hypotenuse of a possession triangle or any of those flimsy tactical details when mild criticism with a word of encouragement would suffice. No be everybody be Bernardo or Kyle Walker who will take it on the chin and keep grinding. But I guess, Pep cares more about winning and less about being likeable like say someone like Klopp.

The tough love is because Kalvin - though very well-behaved, just did not play like he wanted to make a difference. I personally think his confidence took a beating because he got injured after being signed and watched the team go on that winning run without him, that he doubted he could contribute. I watched him never show up when we needed him to drop back to receive the ball during build up when Rodri was out. Just never exerting himself and being leggy and off the pace.

He is a good player no doubts but at this point, we need someone to hit the ground running or at least try to. The trying part is where I fault Kalvin. Bring on Joshua Kimmich though. I hear him and Tuku no dey see eye to eye.

andrewbaba44:
Yes grealish was never worth that amount ,but at least mancity own Dey deliver

Was Pogba worth the amount?

Omoluabi16:
lol. Na Man City start the nonsense by buying grealish for 100m, then we followed the pattern.
Na Antony of Manchester united funny pass.

Is it the treble/quintuple winner Jack Grealish or another one?

BlueMann:
Jota wins a penalty...Salah scores the pen this time

That should do it for Liverpool

That thing na dive Sha. I don't know why Jota didn't just continue on his way and tap into an empty net

Liverpool deserve to win this game by an even healthier margin but boy that was not only a dive, Jota should have been booked and the penalty should have been overturned.

The EPL refs need to take a long hard look at themselves because this season has been terrible for them.

pkasso:
God forbid! Una wan spoil this boy life abi? I would rather prefer him join City most likely as KdB's heir. Musiala at Bayern, Bellingham at Real and Wirtz at Man City. The three biggest attacking midfield talents of the next generation plying their trade at the best 3 teams in the world. Fitting.

I trust Txiki to correct his Kalvin Phillips mistake by signing Wirtz.

I have bad news for United.

Godx:
He is very special. Gvardiol is a centre half. He should be playing alongside Dias. I don't understand why Pep persist on playing him at left back when he has Ake who is excellent 1v1.

Haaland is a waste of money
Rodri is a waste of money
Bernardo Silva is a waste of money
John Stones is a waste of money
Grealish is a waste of money
Kovacic is a waste of money
Nunez is a waste of money

Some of the things I have read here.

Then when they win a centurion, quadruple, 3 peat EPL, Treble etc.

They go back to being world class with Pep being a fraud.

Rinse. Repeat.

Kimbeast:
Match Day 49.

I am actually agreeing with you by stating that it is just Match day 14. 24 games to go.

Kimbeast:
They have won 3 in a row. They are due an off season to recharge and go again. It has nothing to with players.

Match Day 14.

Stop believing the news media. They are lying to you.

Disbelieve the stories from both sides.

America will betray Israel. The writings are on the wall.

raumdeuter:
Okay so 3 goals vs 5 all season last yr for Grealish and 11 goals in 2 seasons

Grealish can be better in his output there is no denying that. Just like Doku can be better in other aspects of his game.

Meanwhile, Musiala wants to leave Bayern?

raumdeuter:
His output sinks Grealish totally

Grealish all season last yr 5 goals, Doku already on 4
While Grealish last season also had Ake behind him. Grealish also played doodle teams too

They have different skillsets. Doku has more output but he does not track back as well, does not control and retain possession as well and does not have the same gravity. Pep uses the latter (Grealish) when playing against tougher opponents like United recently.

raumdeuter:
Grealish see your life, Doku already on 4 goals

Grealish will be better for bigger games and Doku for smaller low block teams since he is more direct.

The goal is actually Akanji's.

raumdeuter:
Android17 what were you saying about Doku again

That he has high potential but he needs to clean up his game. Today he is not but in some other games he has been a net negative. Bournemouth are doodle otherwise a good winger would have been barreling down his wing. It is why Pep likes to play Aké with him.

raumdeuter:
So considering all factors, How many teams all over Europe are better than Madrid coaching job. which is the major question
You mentioned Man city, which other? You think Inzaghi won't leave Inter Milan today if Madrid comes calling? or Emery wont abandon Villa?

If one is to consider all factors the argument has changed.

United is a bigger club than Newcastle and Aston Villa but will Eddie and Unai leave their present clubs to go there? The answer is no.

If Inter were financially very strong and the Italian Seria A was what it used to be in the early 90s, you know he will never leave his job to go elsewhere.

raumdeuter:
And which are these 2-eyed jobs you think are more coveted than Madrid and Bayern? Newcastle? I wont even start arguing that.

You mean a coach will pick Newcastle over Bayern and Madrid. Okay then

I said Manchester City FC. I said other factors are limiting Newcastle, Aston Villa, Inter Milan, Liverpool which will expand the scope of the argument beyond this talk. Which is why I said to focus on only the environment, project, leadership of the clubs for now. Not which is bigger or has more fans or has won more etc.

raumdeuter:
What makes Madrid job the most coveted in 2010 when Mou joined despite being notorious for hiring and firing and not coveted in 2020 when they are doing the same

Because at the time Barcelona was the best club in the world so their country rivals (RM) presented an option to the man they felt was the other elite coach in the world that could wrestle that title from Barca. Mourinho was promised a stable job. That is why he was not fired after his first season like Pellegrini even though the latter won more games and had more points in his first season compared to Mourinho.

raumdeuter:
He had 2 of Europe top jobs to pick from Bayern and Madrid. One was ready right now and one was "wait till summer". He picked one of the top jobs which shows these clubs despite hiring and firing are still the top destination

A coach has a limited shelf life and he has to get a job quickly and be relevant otherwise he is quickly forgotten

No, your premise and conclusion are at variance. Tuchel had RM, Bayern and Tottenham to select from. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man will be king. He selected from the options he had. This example would have made sense if he turned down the jobs I said are more coveted to take any of the options you listed. He did not.

raumdeuter:
You think a coach will pick Newcastle job over Real Madrid?

Coaches dont care about the volatility, the best coaches still rush to Madrid Bayern PSG Chelsea and those volatile jobs because they get the most exposure

Poch Carlo, Mourinho Pep Naggelsman are the coaches who at their peaks went to these clubs despite their volatility.

Benitez went to Real Madrid from Napoli. So you think any Napoli coach will turn down Madrid. Not every coach can cope with the demand of a top club which is why Klopp stays away just like not all players an cope with it. For every Hazard that failed, there is a Bellingham whose profile is massively catapulted by joining a top club

Madrid job was the one that elevated Zidane, that was actually his only job in management and that makes many people consider him a top coach despite not coaching for over 3yrs, if he did it at a smaller club there will still be people who will doubt if he can translate it into a big club

You are still mixing up RM the club with RM the coaching job. They are not the same. Real Madrid is a bigger club than City but which of them will a top coach want to coach today? That is the discussion. The emphasis is on "today" not in history and the job of coach not the popularity of the club.

At the time that Mou and what not were headed to such jobs they were the most coveted jobs ---> at the time. But the leadership started getting impatient because they knew they had a retinue of top coaches waiting on standby. Is that the case today? Carlo Ancelotti who was to be relieved at the end of the season is still there because?

Of course the RM job elevated Zidane because he won multiple UCL titles whilst there. They begged him to come back but he refused, why so? Why is he waiting for the France job if a more coveted job is asking for him? Maybe he knows that job is not the big deal it used to be before.

raumdeuter:
I asked if all the 100 jobs in Europe were open mention 5 that a top manager will pick above Madrid, you only mentioned City. So to you, Only one job is more desirable.

Actually Madrid was in the run for Tuchel based on reports in March this year which was why Bayern had to move faster

https://www.football-espana.net/2023/03/25/thomas-tuchel-was-making-plans-to-be-real-madrid-head-coach-before-bayern-munich-move
https://onefootball.com/en/news/bayern-munich-set-to-appoint-real-madrid-target-as-new-manager-after-nagelsmann-sacking-37033652
https://thehardtackle.com/news/2023/03/16/real-madrid-considering-thomas-tuchel-swoop/
https://therealchamps.com/2023/03/24/real-madrid-thomas-tuchel-blow/

You are still making the same argument. Tuchel was going to take the job compared to Tottenham- the only other team at the time interested in his services. Your links show he was waiting for the summer. If RM was that coveted job it used to be, he could have waited and ignored Bayern right? He did not. He went with the better of the 2 options.

raumdeuter:
So there are not 5 jobs in Europe that they will be picked over Madrid. So you are saying there is one job out of 100 in Europe that Alonso Xavi and DeZerbi will pick over Madrid and Bayern?

What has changed from 20yrs ago when the likes of Wenger also rejected Madrid for the stability of Arsenal

Many other factors go into selecting a job. I am just ignoring them to limit the scope of the conversation. I could have mentioned Liverpool and even Newcastle as top destinations because the EPL is now more superior to La Liga, Italy, Germany so even if a coach might prefer the Inter Milan job, he will also know that financially and visibility wise, that job may be constraining.

Thus, the conversation should be about the coaching environment. How volatile it is, support from leadership/ownership, patience during the bad times etc. Lopetegui and Benitez will tell you they regretted going to RM.

raumdeuter:
Who are the in demand managers that will turn down Real Madrid at this point? Pep obviously wont coach Madrid because of his Barcelona links, Klopp does not coach in high pressure Environment, he wants underachievng clubs where the expectations are very low so any thing is a big achievement and he would be celebrated

So who are these top coaches who will turn down Madrid? By summer a coach like Alonso will have his pick of clubs who are the 5 clubs he would pick ahead of Madrid in the whole of Europe

Tuchel was one of this in demand managers 12months ago and he picked Bayern. Bayern decision to go early for him was based on rumors that Carlo might be leaving Madrid and Tuchel this in demand manager will be headed there

So I ask again who are the in demand managers that will turn down Bayern or Madrid

It is not about turning down RM. Anyone can accept to be president of Benin Republic if that is the only option. A good comparison will be to ask for those who will be willing to take it over being the president of South Africa for e.g. Not many if any will be the answer. Zidane left the RM job to remain jobless whilst basically waiting for France.

By the way, Tuchel and RM was after he won the UCL with CFC. Following his being fired by CFC, it was Tottenham and Bayern that courted him. He selected the better of the 2 options.

raumdeuter:
Can you list 5 jobs in Europe that Alonso will pick over RM or Bayern if offered to pick anywhere he likes

I did not say there are 5 jobs in Europe Alonso will pick over RM and Bayern. I said if given a chance to select between RM, Bayern and City, Alonso, Xavi, DeZerbi or any other manager that people see as borderline elite will gravitate towards City.

raumdeuter:
What will be the expectations for Man Utd one of the top 3 spenders in the league last season. De Zerbi did not spend as much as Ten Hag he didnt even spend half of ten Hag. Did De Zerbi even have a proper pre season with the Brighton squad?
Man Utd also did not lose key performers like Cucurela, Trossard Bissouma Maupay MacAlister, Sanchez, Caicedo.

So while Man Utd was spending millions and keeping their best players, Brighton was spending significantly less and losing their best players.

If you say 3rd is an overachievement for Man Utd who is the 2nd highest spender last season, what will be their expected finish that will be in line with their expenditure

The expectations for United will be to compete for league titles and possibly win it in a 3-5 year window. Return on investment is always time based. DeZerbi is not required to win anything in the next 7 years which is why he can focus on playing fancy football.

3rd being an overachievement for United is couched by their previous season's performance before ETH. And it was an overachievement because bookies like pundits predicted City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Newcastle ahead of United at the start of the season. The Newcastle vs United is arguable but it was still outside of top 4 so ETH superseding that should count in his favor.

raumdeuter:
Tuchel though not performing to standard expected of Bayern is still getting his own benefit of doubt, cos he won the league last season regardless of the circumstance, he has won all his CL games and he will get his courtesy 1 yr , even Kovac without the pedigree of Tuchel got over 1yr, to try to steady his ship before the hammer came

Low got that much time because he had a track record of success with Germany. With Low, Germany made semi in 2008, semi in 2010, semi in 2012, World cup winner in 2014, semi in 2016. These success afforded him the benefit of doubt in 2018 and 2020

Alonso will either go to Madrid or Bayern regardless of how they have treated their coaches in the past because he knows those are the pinnacle of football. Or you think he will rather stay in Leverkusen?

Alonso will go there based on avails surely however if he is offered to replace Pep in City or Tuchel in Bayern (Carlo in RM) which job do you think he will jump at?

raumdeuter:
Real Madrid is still one of the most coveted jobs in football, When you succeed at a club of the stature of Madrid you get acclaims like no where else

Conte and Flick where are they now? Klopp is probably scared of going to a club so demanding that you must win every season, you must win in style, you must win by using specific players the management want. Klopp deliberately avoids high pressure environment.
Coaches have turned down Madrid in the past it was rumored that Wenger at his peak also turned them down because of the same Klopp reason, He cannot thrive in a high pressure and regulated environment where you dont get a free hand

Most coaches hired by a top club have shown either success or potential to be successful

Seems you are conflating RMs status as a big club with top managers desiring to go there. RM is still a massive club but being the coach of that team is no longer the top 2 most desirable jobs in soccer like it used to be. Real Madrid, Barcelona and United used to occupy the top 3 jobs. Every manager wanted to do so well that RM, Barca or United would hire them. It is not the case any more.

And while I can understand your arguments about Klopp in relation to RM, the reality is, it is not a stable environment and as such, him and Pep (or anyone else you regard as top tier) do not crave that job. They don't even think it will elevate them.

Of course, that does not mean nobody will coach there. Even Yeovil Town FC can hire a manager. The question is if the top managers see it as the upper echelon of football coaching like it used to be. The answer is a resounding no and it is not because they won't pay you a good salary or offer you the trappings of working for a multinational organization. It is because the job/environment is unstable and top managers fear they won't be given enough time to implement their ideas.