₦airaland Forum

Babygod:
@ANONIMI

PLS I READ THE "TRASH" YOMISAYS WROTE, THAT IS HIS OWN OPINION, AND HE IS ENTITLED TO IT

I think you should have limited yourself to labelling it his opinion rather than go as far as saying trash, except you also accept in reciprocity that your opinion on anything is trash, which I doubt.

Babygod:
@ANONIMI

FIRST I NEED TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, IN THE BIBLICAL TIMES WHAT WAS THE FORM OF CURRENCY ? IN MEAN THE OLD TESTAMENT ? SOLOMONS RICHES WAS IT IN NAIRA OR DOLLARS ? OR WAS IT NOT IN GOLD , SILVER, LIVESTOCK AND ALL THE REST ?
,
IN THE BIBLE, THE WORTH OF A PERSON WAS BASED ON THE SUBSTANCE HE HAD AND NOT MONEY , BECAUSE THEIR WAS NO MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE  THEN , IT WAS MERELY BASED ON TRADE BY BATTER, SO GIVING WAS MAINLY BASED ON THE POSSESIONS YOU HAD AND NOT BASED ON THE ACTUAL MONEY

* Are you referring to the same Bible that had this reference to money as early as Genesis 17:23

And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

** Is this an indication of your level of understanding and knowledge of God's Written Word and why it is easy for you and others to be misled on straightforward issues as the illegality of requiring payment of tithes by CHRISTians?

Image,

Just in case you have not read this.
-----------------------------------------------

The Trial of Pastor Enoch


As a sequel to my previous posts about the the mis-information being preached in our churches about tithesI hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. I came across this post when i checked on a link supplied by one of the contributors to a previous thread. Enjoy the conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Adeboye: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END

Source: : http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

It might be useful to also check this out:

http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

as well as other comments on the blog site.

Allta:
The bottom line, is that some of this questions seem to threaten our fundamental religious beliefs, and some of us feels obviously offended rather than go back and study God's word.

Very concise message there, but will we adhere & study God's word?
How I wish I could respond yes, unfortunately I cannot as most of us are too lazy and/or hypnotised by our pastors to do our own study of God's word.
Personally, I have been reading at least 4-5 verses before and after each verse quoted by any pastor even while in church to understand the proper context of God's message and that has helped me grow a lot as a Christian recently.
Text without context is a PRETEXT.

MALAMA:
@ Jekad, the similarity between the Corban story and this tithes/relative scenario is that we Xtians want to show God that we love Him and can obey His commandments to the letter but we don't realise that love for Him is demonstrated by how we love our fellow humans.

Many thanks for putting that so well, I could not have said it better. Other examples abound in Christ's earthly ministry and the Apostles' lives and teachings to confirm the above doctrine.
Most of us expect to be spoon-fed, yet Christ's life and teachings in parables are meant to be a framework and guide for us and those who see how we live our lives will identify us as being Christ-like or CHRISTians.

igbonla:
The last time I checked, God said he will rebuke the devourer if you obey.

Have you ever read all of Malachi from chapter 1 to understand the real context of teh oft-quoted, much-abused Malachi 3:8.-12.
If you haven't, do what God expects of you read His Word in full and save yourself from 419 pastors who obtain your money by pretence of tithes.

Chat2MeBac:
@topic
With due respect to those who do, I have quit. I used to be a tither until early this year when I made a conscitious decision to give an offering instead. I am not too sure about the significance of giving 10% to a church and have declined from doing so. I have seen too many 'shady' activities where churches and money are concerned. I will donate to charities and give to those in need. I feel much better doing so.

My sister,

You should actually feel better than feeling much better about giving to charities and those in need than paying unrequired tithe.
What you are currently doing is what was required under the old testament, see Deuteronomy 14: 22-29 even when tithing was practiced by the Israelites.
However, tithes have been abolished for CHRISTians under the new testament, see Hebrews 7: 1-14.
Shalom.

RedHotChic:
God said, bring your tithes to my HOUSE.

What is the Biblical basis of this your assertion
Where is God's house today

anonimi:
Dear Allta,

Kindly note from your quote that Jesus Christ was referring to the Pharisees & scribes, as the ones to pay tithes.
The correct identification of those to pay tithes on God's altar is also confirmed in Malachi 1:

6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.
8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.
9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts.
10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Kindly go through the whole Malachi to see who God was referring to in the oft-quoted, much-abused Malachi 3: 8-12.

Allta,

Did you see my earlier response above? May I humbly suggest you read through Malachi completely. Let us all strive to be Bible scholars as we are enjoined to be.

RedHotChic:
I think the unbelievers are the equivalent of Pharisees today.

May I invite you to study all biblical references to Pharisees, using this Bible search engine to make it easy:

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=pharisees&ver=kjv

Then you may want to reassess those who you think are their equivalents today.
Shalom.

detruth:
@poster
I sincerely agree with your understanding of scripture. I believe the reason why many got it wrong is because of their carnal interpretation of the Word of God. The letter will always kill, only the Spirit gives life.
Even Jesus was in support of tithing when He spoke in Luke 11:42

42 "Woe to [b]you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. NIV[/b]

The "former" here refers to tithing which although is less compare to weighier matters like justice and the love of God nevertheless, Jesus still agree with it. "Mint" and "rue" are currency denominations of their time.

Are you a Pharisee that Christ was referring to in the text above as in others? Who are the equivalent of Pharisees today?

@javarules,

I hope you realise that you are not paying tithe (10%) of your gross income as defined today (even though erroneously) by kola & pastors.
You say you spend/budget 60k monthly after paying 10k on debts & tithes, which means your total income is 70k monthly. Thus the 2k you pay as tithe is less than 3% of your income and CANNOT be descibed as tithes.
Therefore whatever blessings you are receiving is not because you tithes as you do not but rather in spite of your not tithing.
And that is in line with the Bible - no tithe required of CHRISTians.

javarules:
Why am i saying this, Abraham was not a priest and he paid tithe, so who says tithe is for priests alone?

Read Genesis 14 very well on the above and you will realise that Abraham paid a tenth (tithe?) of his war booty only ONCE. Jacob also made a vow in Genesis 28:

22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

These instances do not and cannot be interpreted as practice of tithe giving. We are expected to give freely any %age be it more or less than 10% as the Spirit leads us.
Shalom.

I will respond by asking you to reflect on these two quotes specifically as well as the teaching, practice & life of Jesus Christ and the Apostles:

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Mark 7:
9 And he (Jesus Christ) said unto them (Pharisees), Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

javarules:
I earn 20k a month and I owe someone 38k due to some business deal gone bad. Anyway after some discussions we came to agreement that I pay the money over 5 months which means 7.6k per month. 20k is not enough for me considering the standard of living in the city where I live, minus 7.6K from it and you are left with what you can actually call peanuts. But still I pay my tithe of 2k. What I have left is 10K or so and going by the economy of man, that money should last me for a week! But its been three months now and I can't remember a month when I don't have over 2k with me on a daily basis. In actually fact my budget is a little over 2k per day. Now call it fluke or whatver you want, i know its God. Thats my personal revelation, I CAN NEVER STOP PAYING MY TITHE. So for those who say tithe is not important or not relevant, fine go ahead, I pray that God will also give u a personal revelation. Remember that when Saul(converted Paul) was killing the disciples, he actually thought HE WAS WORKING FOR GOD. A personal revelation changed all that.

My 2 cents

I hope you will understand that my response is solely for the purpose of clarification & nothing else.
First of all, thank God for your testimony.
However, by your own records you spend/budget 2k daily and earn 10k monthly net of debt & tithe, right. That means spending/budget of 60k per month.
Do you get dashes, gifts, or something from others to make up the 50k difference or how?
These dashes, gifts or whatever are they from legitimate sources or from people who have earned it from legitimate sources that you will be proud of being associated with as a CHRISTian?

Allta:
Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you[/color] pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you[color=#990000] ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Dear Allta,

Kindly note from your quote that Jesus Christ was referring to the Pharisees & scribes, as the ones to pay tithes.
The correct identification of those to pay tithes on God's altar is also confirmed in Malachi 1:

6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.
8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.
9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts.
10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Kindly go through the whole Malachi to see who God was referring to in the oft-quoted, much-abused Malachi 3: 8-12.

Quote from: JeSoul on Yesterday at 06:08:29 PM [size=8pt][/size]

The poster is talking about completely suspending any giving to God in order to pay off debts, that will be wrong.

This is the original post still on page 1:

If you have a lot of debt, can you temporarily stop tithing while paying off the debt?

My dear sister, why would you want to lie korokoro to justify something that you admitted in your own reply is not a requirement for CHRISTians
What could be your motivation

God's way are not our ways.Bible says:'while men slept the enemy came and sow tares, '.satan can strike any how but the lord who is faithful would not allow the righteous to suffer.Read the scriptures below and see one of the ways that God moved on behalf of a woman.
2 Kings 4
1 Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen.
2 And Elisha said unto her, What shall I do for thee? tell me, what hast thou in the house? And she said, Thine handmaid hath not any thing in the house, save a pot of oil.
3 Then he said, Go, borrow thee vessels abroad of all thy neighbours, even empty vessels; borrow not a few.
4 And when thou art come in, thou shalt shut the door upon thee and upon thy sons, and shalt pour out into all those vessels, and thou shalt set aside that which is full.
5 So she went from him, and shut the door upon her and upon her sons, who brought the vessels to her; and she poured out.
6 And it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said unto her son, Bring me yet a vessel. And he said unto her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed.
7 Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.
GOD IS FAITHFUL,PAY YOUR TITHE AS AT WHEN DUE,YOU WILL NEVER REGRET IT.

Indeed God is faithful and does not depend on your tithe to be as demonstrated in your passage above.

If truly the debtor has been ministered to in the Holy Spirit or a specific message by his pastor then he can go ahead and give an offering rather than pay his debt knowing that God will meet his specific need. Otherwise, if you are in a congregation of 100 and they give you the story of the woman above and you rely on that to pay you are OYO - on your own like that pastor who went to the lions' cage in UI zoo some years ago. He was eaten by the lions.

1Cor 9 teaches that those who work in the ministry should make a living from the ministry. Also we see Paul asking the believers to keep aside a portion of their earnings to give to the poor.

Have you read Acts and the Epistles of Paul comprehensively to see IF he asked for or received tithes
No, my sister, he was given gifts and offerings from time to time without asking but yet thanking the givers. That is the standard of true CHRISTians, whether leaders or followers- no matter the claimed level of annointing and wonders.

JeSoul:
BUT we see in the new covenant (though not explicitly stated) that though tithing is not a requirement, it would become a practice that would flow naturally from our new freedom in Christ.

Can you explain or point out where in the new convenant you are seeing tithing which is explicitly BANNED (Hebrews 7:1-11) again flowing naturally please?

Have you heard of Pharisees and scribes passing teh traditions of men off as doctrine

detruth:
@Kunle
You are only full of letters which kills; only the spirit of the Word gives life. The Spirit is the only true interpreter of the scriptures and not your head.

Is your reply above in line with the Bible

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

@ poster,

I think you should read the 11 pages discussion on your topic here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html

Carefully study the Bible references as well including the whole of Malachi.

@ moderator,

May I suggest you merge the two threads?
Thanks.

@Negro_Ntns,

Let me join others to appreciate you for putting our grave situation very correctly yet in very few words.
Many thanks.
Let's hope somehow we will realise our folly and start making amends before the rot goes further.

RedHotChic:
Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

Kindly confirm if you are indeed a Bible believing CHRISTian please

RedHotChic:
Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

Kindly explain exactly how you will give it to God please?
- Through burnt offerings on the altar as done by Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc
- Apportioining, as led by the Holy Spirit, to your priest (pastor), orphans, widows, strangers and the poor See Deut. 14: 22-29 and other Biblical passages on Godly giving.
- or some other manner that is not described above?

Drastic misbehaviour needs drastic corrective action.
The question we should ask is if the amount may be enough deterrent or not?
Moreover to be on the lookout for government officials (who ordinarily are our servants) who may break and not pay and make such a big fuss out of it.
3rd world to 1st world no be by infrastructures and big buildings only, it is more by attitude/behaviour and zero tolerance for lawlessness, which in Nigeria now equates to bigmanism.

Someone:

* from a minority group,
* without name recognition,
* not extremely wealthy from corruption and/or 419
* without a long CV of political experience

can he be nominated by PDP, ANPP, AC etc

Why not, if not?
What needs to change for it to happen here.
I guess one can assume that since we all are rejoicing in the fact that it happened somewhere else, it means we see as a good thing, which we would love to also happen here, right?

I hope and pray Gani wins this case and our judges will not be compromised but rather give a speedy trial of the case. It is obvious that the woman not only does not deserve teh appointment as she has disqualified herself by standing surety for Akume. Moreover Yara was doing double speak when he said Ribadu was not removed but only going on course only to turn around now and pull a wool over our eyes. Well maybe na because im sabi sey we be original MUNGUNS and no go talk again.
Aluta continua.

MyTempID:
I did. Thus my reason for disagreeing with the sentence I isolated.

I think it is better to take a reply in context rather than isolating a particular sentence. I hope you see my point.

Does anyone recall if any of our leaders- from LG councillor to oga Presido- was ever an alien i.e. not a Nigerian since independence in 1960
That means they emerged from among us and were ordinary citizens like us before they became leaders, right?
And when they are no longer leaders, as it is a phase in their lives, they will return to ordinary citizens like us, right?
Those who were voted in, na we vote dem abi no be so?
Those who were selected in, na because we siddon look dey fear thugs who are a minority but weapon-enabled scare mongers?
Those who shot their way in were well received by us and we sang their praises?
So we should look at ourselves in the mirror and purge ourselves through & through.

@TempID,

I think you should re-read my post 237 again before you make any further comments about the relationship his blackness or none has to do with his nomination.

Yesterday as I was watching Rangers vs. Lobi match I could not help but wonder at the emptiness of the stadium and the sorry state of the pitch.
Meanwhile we dey fleece ourselves to support oyinbo teams, subtle brain drain. After we go dey complain sey oyinbo people dey diss us.
Pity! Pity!! Pity!!!