₦airaland Forum

jydewalker,

was that your story or someone else's?
might be worthwhile to clarify and indicate source, if applicable.
thanks.

This is my response to a related thread recently:

Queenisha

Or is it Adeboye that made people jobless and hungry?

Yes, very much so by his mafia godfatherism style of giving "spiritual"(?) and "moral"(?) protection to the Looters-in-Power (LIPs) he associates with rather than admonish them publicly as Paul did to Peter on the issue of circumcised vs uncircumcised brethren.
These LIPs whose activity or rather inactivity is the cause of unemployment that creates mass poverty and leaves infrastructures in a dilapidated state, including health facilities that cannot perform rigorous diagnosis thus leaving room for greater attribution of sometimes inevitable diseases and deaths to witches and wizards and wild claims of unverifiable miracles.
Talk about a symbiotic relationship, rub-my-back-I-rub-yours: you politicians can make the people very poor and I will continue to give them false hope of Nigeria will be great, moving to the next level, miracles galore etc etc to keep them hypnotised and focused away from your thieving ways as I dey thief them dey go also with my unbiblical tithe guilt trap.

Rhea:
[size=20pt]PLEASE LET US LEAVE OBASANJO TO GOD[/size]

I think na so dem leave dem looters for Ghana wey we dey rush go now abi for China that is now competing with America & Europe dem.
Now you know what we should be doing to these wasted people who are wasting us as well

How does this sound:

Student/Child: I wrote the best exams in Maths.
Parent: Oh that's very good but where is the score on your Report Card.
Child: Oh you see, it's not there because I chewed up my paper.

BTW, that's how OBJ was also reported to have chewed the election results for the selection of the Olowu of Owu, his town.
Yet we adore these people and expect our country to grow.
Anyway it's miracle time - we are moving to the Next Level, whether the devil and our enemies like it or not.

It may just be time to (s)elect God Himself as President ASAP to fix the problem pronto.
What do we expect since we all believe everything is spiritual and queue up in churches/mosques and shrines for blessings and victory over our enemies.

which kin craze be dat?
The man no dey craze nada, im just dey take us for a ride as all dem Looters-in-Power (LiPs) like to do since they know we go swallow d thing as im don put God for dia.
Abi na God dey spend all the money wey im allocate to himself and his cronies under power emergency?
Make we continue dey suffer dey go and dey wait God to be sworn in for Aso Rock villa.

Not prayers oh my brother! That may not be enough really.
Let's (s)elect God Himself as President ASAP to fix the problem pronto.
What do we expect since we all believe everything is spiritual and queue up in churches/mosques and shrines for blessings and victory over our enemies.

Obasanjo: Leave Electricity Problem to God
07.23.2008

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo has said Nigerians should take their electricity problem to God, adding that they should take to God anything they do not have which they wished to have or cannot get.
Obasanjo spoke yesterday when he reluctantly fielded questions from journalists as he arrived the Murtala Mohammed Airport, Ikeja, Lagos.
Also yesterday, House of Representatives Speaker Dimeji Bankole warned that lawmakers would not be stampeded into taking final decisions on the recommendations of its committee that probed the expenses in the power sector between 1999 and 2007 when Obasanjo held sway as president.
The Speaker said the House would follow due process to ensure that the recommendations brought before it were thoroughly considered.
Cornered at the airport, Obasanjo responded to questions thus: Sir, what advice do you have on the power problem in the country?
Obasanjo: Power, which power? 
Journalists: Electricity 
Obasanjo: Do you have electricity in your area? 
Journalists: No 
Obasanjo: Anything you don’t have or you cannot get, then leave it to God
Journalists: How do you feel when Nigerians don’t appreciate your contributions to the development of the nation?
Obasanjo: Hey!  Hey!, calling a friend of his who was on his entourage; the man walked up to him and he said to him: “They are asking about good governance, Go into your car. Bye bye o,” he said, waving.
Obasanjo, who arrived in a chartered HS125 aircraft from Abuja, also described his political “sons” including the former governor of Ekiti State, Mr. Ayo Fayose, as his good children.
The former president retorted when asked his reaction to the move to reconcile him to all his estranged political supporters in the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), “All my children are good children.”
The interview went thus; “How do you react to the move by some leaders of your party to reconcile you with some of your estranged political children?” 
Obasanjo humorously responded:  “All my children are good children. Do you have bad children, if you have bad children na your own toro” 
The former president was besieged by Aviation Correspondents but he did not say anything again.
He walked leisurely to his GMC four-wheel-drive, boarded and departed with a stream of convoy.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=117622

Just in case you have not read this.
-----------------------------------------------

The Trial of Pastor Enoch

As a sequel to my previous posts about the the mis-information being preached in our churches about tithesI hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. I came across this post when i checked on a link supplied by one of the contributors to a previous thread. Enjoy the conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Adeboye: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END

Source: : http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

Queenisha

Or is it Adeboye that made people jobless and hungry?

Yes, very much so by his mafia godfatherism style of giving "spiritual"(?) and "moral"(?) protection to the Looters-in-Power (LIPs) he associates with rather than admonish them publicly as Paul did to Peter on the issue of circumcised vs uncircumcised brethren.
These LIPs whose activity or rather inactivity is the cause of unemployment that creates mass poverty and leaves infrastructures in a dilapidated state, including health facilities that cannot perform rigorous diagnosis thus leaving room for greater attribution of sometimes inevitable diseases and deaths to witches and wizards and wild claims of unverifiable miracles.
Talk about a symbiotic relationship, rub-my-back-I-rub-yours: you politicians can make the people very poor and I will continue to give them false hope of Nigeria will be great, moving to the next level, miracles galore etc etc to keep them hypnotised and focused away from your thieving ways as I dey thief them dey go also with my unbiblical tithe guilt trap.

For all those saying Judge Not for Adeboye's reported desire to buy a $20m jet when his country, of which the church he leads is an integral part, is known as one of the worst places in the world where basic amenities are lacking, you probably don't have the following in your Bible:

1 John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

You may also read the commentary on this link:

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/mywritings/authority.html

It is this Adeboye, whose Asst. Area Pastor Abuja, an ordinary Director in INEC was found with billions in his accounts, many mansions, cars and other assets as well as a second wife. On what salary per annum
Adeboye's response His church is too large for him to ensure all his pastors are above board
Yet he dey claim sey im dey see vision of witches wey dey cause air crashes/block people's employment etc, prophesy sey Naija will be great as im dey aid & abet corruption.
By their fruits you shall know them
Show me your friends and I will tell who you are

Gamine

@Mr Gabe.
Thanks be to God, i didnt need scholarship.
Those that needed it direly got it!

So how many who needed it direly do you know received scholarships.
The last time I checked the school's web site it was soliciting $165m for endowment fund specifically for scholarshi but nothing, none at all about criteria for giving students or how many have received.
Yet, mugu sheeple go dey follow cause dem wan prosperity like oga pastor abi na GO too, meanwhile we, Nigerians & our country, continue to be known as the worst on earth.

kola oloye:
I thank everybody for their contributions.There is one thing i want you to understand.
If you refuse to pay your tithe in order to help a sick person, the person can still die, then you are owing God.
I think it is better for you to pay your tithe then look elsewhere for money to assist
if eventually the person dies or lives you are not owing God but man.

REMEMBER, GOD IS THE HEALER NOT THE MONEY IN QUESTION. Obedience is better than sacrifice

How do you pay God if you cannot pay for the medical care of your relative whom you see
Indeed how do you pay God I don't mean how do you pay your pastor (= church)
There are over 6 billion people in this world, of which over 2 billion in India & China, where they are largely pagans (i.e. not Xtians). They are making strides in health and modern life while a 419 parading as god of men (sorry man of god) is conning people into believing they owe god
Next be sey dem go dey ascribe our individual and collective failures to witches and wizards!!!

olukunle:
Why not hold Yar Adua and the governors responsible for the poor instead of laying it at the feet of those doing God's work?

Adeboye, given his clout, rather than do what you have just counselled others to do is more interested in mingling with them. 28 years in Christ's (?) ministry and claimed annointing and church growth, what has his message, life and teachings contributed to national or even his local development

kadijen:
but i still maintain to d fact that both adeboye and oyedepo r into charity work

Do you know of such systematic and meaningful charity work If you do why don't you list them or better still refer us to their web sites where such are stated? Last time I checked Oyedepo church's web site, the page on charity work read worse than a politician's manifesto - long on generic promises, nothing, absolutely nothing on verifiable achievements.

For quite a while now, I have been giving a sizeable portion of the offerings I used to give these pentecostal churches to The Gideons to print and distribute more Bibles. That is spreading God's word truly. The receivers can read and come to their personal understanding of God and Christ's ministry. Moreover I make sure those around me I help them meaningfully to get to the next level in life.
No more following sheepishly these conning gods of men.

grand jedi:
@KunleOshob
I never said it was abolished, rather it has been replaced by a new dispensation which did away with many of the Levitical practices but in which the High Priest still receives tithes.
      And then, although Jesus is not a Levite yet He was made High priest who we are told RECEIVES the tithes(Heb 7:8 ). This would not have been possible in the old dispensation which shows that in this new dispensation one who is not a Levite is now permitted to take the tithes.

My dear grand jedi,

Did you say you have been studying Hebrews?
When Paul said in Hebrews 7 verse 12 that:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
What law specifically do you think he was referring to
You will have to read the same Hebrews 7 verses 1-11 to understand.
I wish you a blessed study.

@ poster,

How about we twist the question like this:

Do Pentecostals actaully worship their Pastors?

Maybe you will do well to compare and check if there are any parallels.

BTW, you can search verses, words, phrases etc or simply read the Bible online in various versions here:

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+John+4%3A1&ver=kjv

naomijt:
@Gamine,

Please, if you don't feel like going to church, stay at home and study your bible. I'm sure God has something in store for you. Study and discover God for yourself. It will do you good.

I believe the bold portion is the koko of the matter and reflects Christ's response to the Samarritan woman concerning where to worship God, in John 4:

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

A case for Kadiri Ikhana
By Patrick Ngwaogu

THE recent outburst by the 2004 CAF Coach of the Year Kadiri Ikhana has generated a lot of brouhaha within football circles. Many requested for the head of the Edo State-born soccer tactician while others are in total support of him.

Ikhana while signifying his intention to quit the local league as a coach was quoted as saying that the league is corrupt; the best teams are not allowed to win the league, and he does not intend to continue with such a corrupt setting. Many have argued why it took Kadiri Ikhana such a long time to realise that the league is corrupt, whereas it is the system that made him what he is today. For the records, it would be recalled that Kadiri Ikhana was a member of the dreaded Bendel Insurance of Benin squad in the early 1970s, where he rose to annex the right full back position of the senior national team, the then Green Eagles.

Since retiring from active play, Ikhana has coached many prominent teams in the country, and in each of the teams, he made a remarkable impact. The climax being, leading the Enyimba International Football Club of Aba to win the African Champions League trophy for the country in 2004. The trophy was elusive to the country until Ikhana and his fellow journeymen made history by breaking the jinx that year. Immediately after that, he had a deal in South Africa which fell through; then he decided to handle Kwara United to win a continental ticket in 2005. Though, with sad tales after he escaped death in the hands of the fans of the club early in the league.

Ikhana has seen it all both as a player and as a coach for a period spanning over three decades. We can as well say that he has seen the good, the bad and the ugly sides of Nigerian football. He has interacted with those who administer the game both in the country and the world at large. He must have learnt how the league shield is won in other parts of the world, and how we win here in Nigeria. Ikhana has also won the league with several clubs here in Nigeria, and is also abreast with how the deal is "fixed". So when he makes such a sensitive statement, it should not be waved aside.

Unless we want to pretend, it is an understatement to say that our league is corrupt and that the best teams do not win it. Many who are close watchers of the league would not but agree with Ikhana. It is very obvious that club managers prefer to align themselves with referees and other officiating officials instead of making the welfare of their players and officials paramount. The amount they expend on what they call "PR" outstrips what is invested on the players who are the centre of the action. There have been instances where match officials have been brutalised for not doing the will of their paymasters.

Early in the year, during the imbroglio between the NFA/NFL, one club official was quoted as saying that he aligned with the NFL because he wanted his team to win a continental slot at the end of the season. Then, if such came from a well-known club official, why crucify Ikhana? He knew quite well that for him to be "anointed" for the continent, he needs proper alignment. Former Governor of Abia State Dr. Orji Uzor Kalu only recently accused the league organisers of being the bane behind Enyimba's inability to defend the league title they won last year.

Sometime in January this year, during a stakeholders meeting held at the Chida Hotel Abuja, NFL Chairman Chief Oyuki Obaseki was full of vexation that he poured curses on match officials for collecting gratification from clubs to ruin the league when he said "what you are collecting is blood money and you will perish with it. The blood of the youths you are ruining their lives would continue to pursue you". In another statement, a referee executive member was quoted as saying that they would continue to collect gratifications because they are not being well-paid. The statement did not go down well with Obaseki, who reminded them that refereeing is not a profession, but a hobby. The NFL Chairman has decided to de-register many clubs next season, unless they pay all the debts owed to coaches and players. "Why would the players and officials be made the scapegoats? These clubs have the money to bribe referees, but they would not have money to pay the players and officials," the Benin High Chief was quoted as saying.

We would not forget so easily that the likes of Abiola Babes, Leventis United, Iwuanyanwu Nationale, Flash Flamingoes among others being privately-owned clubs were disbanded when the proprietors could no longer stomach the eyesore called league management.

If those who are in charge of the league lay credence to the corruption in our league, then, why crucify Ikhana? I think that the best they can do to Ikhana is to call him for discussions on the possible ways forward. His years of experience in the game remain an asset. The issue of who appoints the referees should not arise in this case. Even if the referees are appointed from heaven, if they want to be corrupt they would be.

*Ngwaogu is an Abuja-based Sports Journalist

http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/editorial_opinion/article03//indexn2_html?pdate=070708&ptitle=A%20case%20for%20Kadiri%20Ikhana

Symptomatic of the comatose state of our football and other sports
Anyway make we continue dey beleive in miracles yanfu yanfu like sey God no dey for other countries dem.

For sure we can beat any team in Europe and Latin America, any day & any time.
How? Abeg no big thing, we go just put Fani-Kayode as minister make im for recruit those winches and occultic powers that he identified as the cause of air crashes to deal with our opposing teams each time.
In fact we don't even need to practice or invite any pro, just wear our juju-soaked jerseys and our opponents go start dey see double.
And if that one no work, we go send powerful prayer warriors for mountain top so God for make us win, still without practice, studying the opponents playing pattern/strenghts & weakness etc. Don't you know that God is a Nigerian at least when it comes to football.

samix:
super eagles no fit do nothing, the players are a bunch of lazy boys. they ain't patriotic nigerians.

Since when was patritism only reserved for football players in a country
Is it that the NFA, NSC, Sports Ministers and Commissioners as well as LG Sports Councillor etc, who share the money they are supposed to use in developing football and other sports and pay the players very well, are not supposed to be patriotic

Anuli ph

May the soul of my dearest mummy and those who died in the crashes rest in peace. Amen.

I hope neither you nor your family collected the compensation for the crash victims, assuming the airline has paid yet since you attribut the crash to spiritual forces hence the airlines and FG agencies have no blame whatsoever.
Make u siddon dia make the airline owners and FG employees dey smile go bank. Instead make una find better lawyer file civil suit for damages from gross negligence due to non-airworthy aircraft and inadequate aviation control equipment etc, una dey say na winch, as e be say na only for naija plane dey crash.

dave07:
Nigeria, it is time to awake from slumber and accept that we all created this mess and stop trading blames. from the big man who refuses to pay his electricity bills to the 'khaki' people that phcn cannot disconnect, to the administration that spent or wasted 16bn on power to the short-sighted administration who failed to build any power station between 1985 to 2003 inspite of population increase and industralization even despite the great armies of special advisers and ministers, and even to the vandals and gas pipeline destroyers, to, every nigerian, we are all guilty!
so lets stop trading blames and lets get down to solving this problems.

Let me add to your list those who adjust their metres so it will read slowly or pay egunje to the NEPA man to wipe their bill. How can we expect to not pay for a billed service (that we have not contested its correctness) and continue to expect good service If you continue eating into your capital and not replace/upgrade/maintain your assets as a business person, sooner or later your business will collapse.
But then we dey wait for miracles to make things work without our (rather in spite of our negating) effort and blame winches and wizards when they don't work.
Make we all dey suffer dey go now and dey wait Rawlings to come kill our parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, nephews, nieces, friends, church/mosque/shrine mates, ex-classmates that are responsible for the rot, abi no be so

SENATOR JD:
is this related to what fani said?

I am afraid, yes very much related - As a man thinks so he is. 37% of poll respondents agree that crashes caused by witches
Our over-fixation on religion despite that most of these religions confirm that God has enabled us to figure things out ourselves, using our intelligence to have dominion.

When/how will we be outraged into doing something, no matter how little to start the change we all so much desire
All these crooks don't we know them
Are they aliens? Non-Nigerians, not our parents, kids, uncles, aunties, cousins, nephews, friends, colleagues, churchmate, ex-schoolmate etc Whose connection we seek seriously and attend their parties or even organise award ceremonies to acknowledge they have arrived and we also want to arrive
Are they not honoured with chieftaincy titles, christian and m'uslim leadership roles in our midst
Do we not know civil servants and private sector workers who live definitely above their legitimate income saying them don cut deal - smart alecs
How many of us actually pay our PHCN bills promptly even when we are not supplied any electricity since we rented their metre and are connected to the national grid on standby for whenever there is electricity
Ok, no be our fault all the above, na good leader wey we no get, no be so Make we dey sleep dey go!

What do we expect if we all flock to churches and mosques where we are fleeced of our earned income by generalised promises of blessings, sow & reap, pay (unrequired**) tithes make pastor, imam & priest for dey gbaladun (enjoy). And if the blessings no come na im be say na d winch of one step mama, generational curse blah, blah, blah.
Nothing about Work, Save & Grow. No nothing!
And wetin be d blessing wey we dey expect? To get one table, position, post, appointment wey extra income (read egunje, scam etc) go dey flow or to get visa go obod oyinbo go dey underemployed but overworked or go do Opio (prostitute) work.

** http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

miracle 20:
hi all,

you guy should stop aguing remember the bible said jugde not.

Can I humbly request you to read this commentary?

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/mywritings/authority.html

Babygod:
@ANONIMI

PLS I READ THE "TRASH" YOMISAYS WROTE, THAT IS HIS OWN OPINION, AND HE IS ENTITLED TO IT

I think you should have limited yourself to labelling it his opinion rather than go as far as saying trash, except you also accept in reciprocity that your opinion on anything is trash, which I doubt.

Babygod:
@ANONIMI

FIRST I NEED TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, IN THE BIBLICAL TIMES WHAT WAS THE FORM OF CURRENCY ? IN MEAN THE OLD TESTAMENT ? SOLOMONS RICHES WAS IT IN NAIRA OR DOLLARS ? OR WAS IT NOT IN GOLD , SILVER, LIVESTOCK AND ALL THE REST ?
,
IN THE BIBLE, THE WORTH OF A PERSON WAS BASED ON THE SUBSTANCE HE HAD AND NOT MONEY , BECAUSE THEIR WAS NO MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE  THEN , IT WAS MERELY BASED ON TRADE BY BATTER, SO GIVING WAS MAINLY BASED ON THE POSSESIONS YOU HAD AND NOT BASED ON THE ACTUAL MONEY

* Are you referring to the same Bible that had this reference to money as early as Genesis 17:23

And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

** Is this an indication of your level of understanding and knowledge of God's Written Word and why it is easy for you and others to be misled on straightforward issues as the illegality of requiring payment of tithes by CHRISTians?

Image,

Just in case you have not read this.
-----------------------------------------------

The Trial of Pastor Enoch


As a sequel to my previous posts about the the mis-information being preached in our churches about tithesI hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. I came across this post when i checked on a link supplied by one of the contributors to a previous thread. Enjoy the conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Adeboye: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END

Source: : http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

It might be useful to also check this out:

http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

as well as other comments on the blog site.