₦airaland Forum

freecocoa:
My dear you can call it whatever you like, doesn't mean that's what it is.

I'm not even saying ladies should walk about unclad, I'm saying that a lady was unclad is not justification for rape, you just are refusing to see my point.

These ladies are not saying women should start dressing as what you call sluts, the message is against rape for whatsover reason, it's amazing how y'all claim not to get that.

The subjectivity of what indecent dressing is, is totally on point with the example given, being in line because we do have to agree on what is indecent dressing is in the first place.

It's like you don't even understand your own argument.

You know you are digging yourself into a hole with this right?

OK explain this for us who don't get it. They are not saying women should dress as slut but that if a woman does indeed choose to dress like a slut she should be celebrated and not treated like a slut? Did I get it?

PS: I also noticed how you framed that line, ..."as what you call sluts". What do you freecocoa call sluts?

[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWUal9Mi6oBlSj6jWyViRD4VHi9xzj9D0_nLi_XVi6behR1De[/img]

https://static1.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/5500-4/photos/1408835920-hundreds-attend-slutwalk-2014-in-chicago_5591334.jpg

https://www.jpattitude.com/IHTM/SlutWalk2012.jpg

https://www.windsorstar.com/cms/binary/4895210.jpg?size=640x420

Just so we see what is being advocated for here.

@Freecocoa

[img]http://.net/i/913.gif[/img]

You will be getting a pristine badge for proficiency in advancing straw man, or should I say straw woman arguments. How have your comments helped your case that which is obviously pro-slut walking? I mean, this whole talk about rape not being sex but sexual assault is pure fuzzy logic, that is if we can even call it logic at all.

Stop introducing the subjectivity dimension of what slutty dressing means. That one is not up for debate, do a quick google search if you are still in doubt of the type of dressing the slut walkers are promoting because every other person is clear on this area. Your examples of the different dressing standards in certain churches is miles off from what we are discussing about.

cococandy:
@ the two bolded. contradictions.
Effects of going around in circles.
So which is it?


@ colored, so you even know that?

i was watching one little girl in India confronting some guys on this rape issue and their response was that why should a girl be by herself at certain hrs of the day without male protection.
I guess that was because they didn't find indecent dressing to blame in that situation as most Indian women tend to cover up.

But Really?
And they said that boldly on camera.
SMH.
As if that makes it okay. No words of condemnation for the actual culprits.

As for this secret agenda. I ask you again, what makes you think you can decide for people what to wear?
Never mind. Don't answer that.
It's the conceit of those who think they can decide for others how to dress that is the most annoying of this whole issue.


Well The continuation of this debate will only be a repetition of what we've already said before and of course some self contradictions will start popping up here and there.
So have a good day there.

Let's agree to disagree.

Tsk tsk tsk

You with your previous comments asserted that India which is more conservative than the US had a higher rape occurrence. I have shown with statistical evidence that you were wrong and that the reverse is the case, the US and indeed several other first world countries have higher incidence of this crime.

This is important because you were hinging your whole argument on the notion that the provocative dressing has no bearing whatsoever in the motivation for this crime. What you claim is a contradiction - my statement of admission that neither me nor anyone else can say conclusively that the high rape occurrence in the US ALL had to do with dressing is by no means a contradiction! That old wool-over-the-eyes trick won't work here.

cococandy:
with 300 thousand rape crimes in all the 50 states out together, only India still ranks higher than the US on the rape scale.

Shouldn't it make sense that it would be LOWER?seeing as the women all cover up and are decent?

If that's not proof that dressing has little to do with it, I don't know what is.

No hopes of convincing you anyway.

The use of statistics on message boards like this can sometimes take on the appearance of a blood sport so unless I 'chop belleful' I tend not to go that route but since I have hope from the guys celebrating Sallah tonight I can talk a little ... if you look up available records on the web you will see that the US with a relatively smaller population than India ranks higher in reported rape cases. In 2012 alone, according to their National Crime Records Bureau there were ~24,000 cases reported in India. For that same year in the US the FBI puts the cases reported at ~ 84,000. (see https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/rape#disablemobile and http://ncrb.gov.in/CD-CII2013/compendium%202013.pdf [pg 79]) This site http://www.wonderslist.com/10-countries-highest-rape-crime/ even ranks the US as number 1 in the world.

I know the argument can be made that a lot of rapes go unreported in places like India, well we also have to realise that same also goes for the US. The US also has a broader definition of rape and this may skew impressions but the trend is the same if you look through as many records as you can find.

Again I will stress here that I am not in anyway implying that the high rape numbers in the US is the result of slutty dressing; I have already stated in an earlier comment that the motivations of rape are varied; I'm no criminologist or psychologist and do not give any such pretensions.

My point is that dressing provocatively cannot be unconnected to sexual violence and that slut walkers who claim otherwise are making a sad error. The whole rape argument is just a ruse for a much broader agenda which I have mentioned earlier.

freecocoa:
Do you have concrete evidence that indecent dressing is responsible for rape?

Now provocative dressing has a lot to do with the thought of sex, that doesn't mean it has something to do with rape.

Morality is subjective, therefore what you term "indecent dressing" might not be same for the next man, how then do we determine what indecent dressing i?

Careful now, one is not saying all rape is caused by provocative dressing. I am saying that provocative dressing can be one of several incitements to commit the crime of rape or other forms of sexual violence. This is simple logic, and seeing as you appear to be a lover of logic you should appreciate this. Our slut walkers on the other hand claim that there is no connection, that provocative or slutty dressing has no correlation to rapé or its incitement hence they support it. They would do well to be reminded in this instance that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You have entangled yourself in your second paragraph, you admit that provocative dressing has a lot to do with the thought of sex and not necessarily with rape. We all know that rape is a type of sex, non-consensual and forceful sex, so how can you say honestly that provocative/slutty dressing has no bearing here?

In describing the type of dressing under discussion here we have been using the words provocative or slutty and it's for good reason. We are not talking about an abstract concept with multivariate or ambivalent meaning. Even the slut walkers themselves are specific with the type of clothes they are promoting so the issue of subjectivity does not arise. They are promoting ashewo fashion and everyone everywhere knows exactly what they mean.

Mindfulness:
Portugal, Spain, Greece and Poland have comparatively very low rape rates and are all countries where MANY women VERY OFTEN wear very revealing outfits.

Still, like I said, let concrete evidence be provided that provocative dressing has nothing to do with rape.

*

This whole slut walking thing is just using the rape argument as a Trojan horse to advance a much broader objective for the feminine imperative - and that is the unencumbered right to openly pursue its mating or sexual strategies.

Today's modern woman wants to be able to indulge to the extreme her sexuality without recrimination from society, she sees scanty dressing as a right and is oblivious of its effect. So there is this erroneous push that sluttiness has nothing to do with sexual violence, that sluttiness should be promoted and celebrated. Any resistance to this idea is seen as the evil patriarchy trying to hold her back.

cococandy:
@bold in your post, as it should be.

Why exactly should it be otherwise?
Right without responsibilities indeed.

Does anyone molest you guys for being indecent? I haven't seen you cry foul for the rights without responsibilities you're enjoying.

See you quoted a writer who's saying male sexuality is being oppressed. If you didn't mean that in Relation to rape and victim blaming, why quote him/her in this instance. It's like you're not aware of the subliminal message that carries. Your bad if you're misunderstood.
Next time quote him only when it is appropriate even if untrue. But at least let it have a relationship with the topic that won't make your post sound like something else.

@colored, I share no such sentiments. I've met good men. Many.
And I defend good men when coincidentally people who share your POV insinuate that men are beings with lack of self control who could be potential rapists if the lady around them isn't behaving properly. You Didn't see it that way huh?
Because you wanted to distract attention from the serious issue of rape to the propaganda of men are being demonized. As is usual in these parts.

Never mind that the article had MEN and WOMEN equally outraged by the "don't dress indecently if you don't want to raped" comments.

The thing is when people say such things, they don't understand what they are teaching.
"Don't bring out the beast in him"
"Don't push him to molest you"
"Don't provoke him to beat you to death"
Etc. they don't teach the so called responsibility that you're harping about. What they teach is that the perpetrator is not responsible for their actions of crime against the other person.


As for what is proper dressing or not, who makes the rules? You, me? With cultures varying around the world is there a common standard agreed upon by EVERY single person as to what proper dressing is? Don't bother to answer that. Rhetorical.

But there is a standard for what is harmful to the next person as humans feel pain the same way. So yes anti-rape laws and sentiments (especially sentiments) can be enforced or at least taught because any victim anywhere in the world feels the pain the same way. (That's an example)

But 'proper' dressing can't be enforced because we don't all agree on what's proper and what's not. So the earlier People started respecting other people's choices of dressing, the faster we can move on to the main issues. Which is the criminal high handedness of someone who thinks they can take another by force because they felt enticed.

I've a question for you though.

why do you think rape is stil very high in countries like India and Nigeria where conservativism is still the order of the day?

What are your thoughts on that?

Your question presupposes that rape incidents are low(er) in countries that are not as conservative as Nigeria or India. You will find that the USA with an estimated 300,000 rape crimes (according to the US Department of Justice https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/210346.pdf) ranks among the top 10 countries where people are likely to get raped, and they occupy that position with several other first world countries like France, UK and Canada. Go through any of the many stats available online and see for yourself.

I am waiting to see anyone prove that provocative dressing has no link or effect whatsoever on whether a person gets raped or not. And till that time the present call for women to throw caution to the wind and dress as skimpily as they desire, because they want to feel empowered and liberated with their sexuality, will continue to draw ridicule from people like me. I always find it interesting that any effort to encourage decent dressing among today's modern woman is immediately seen as a curtailing of her rights.

SAMBARRY:
does that description of dressing threaten anyone's life or safety? If no what is your point because I see some guys too who dress quite inappropriately BY MY OWN STANDARDS

I was on the que waiting for my turn on atm Stand this Sunday and a guy behind me dyed his hair whether blonde or gold with long long chains that all this rappers wear about 3was on his neck.

He was wearing nose ring, pierced under his lips again, sagged his trousers and wore a yellow and blue chelsea jersey or top abi wetin una dey call am

to him he was doing fashion to me he looked likea weirdo but the Issue is

WETIN CONSAIN ME. His mode of dressing did not affect me in ANYWAY

even those pudah women that wear overall black curtain to cover them from the top of their heads to their feet con wear black socks and put something like black net on their faces are they not raped too?

Yup people can dress inappropriately but I'm yet to see any group of straight men that insist to the point of political rallies that it is OK for guys to like dress semi-nakéd gigolos. Slut walking is just another melodramatic arm of the feminist movement like Free The N!pple movement and The Free Bleeders; people operating under a misguided notion of equality.

johnydon22:
Women have the right to wear what they love and feel comfortable in without being threatened with rape same way men have the right to wear what they feel comfortable in.

None have the right to impose their idea of decency on others or blame their inability to have self control on the dressing of the victim.

That's a worse form of societal injustice..

I'm curious, how does dressing in a two piece netted bikini with matching ashewo make-up to the supermarket translate to comfortable dressing for any woman. Do you seriously believe that a level headed woman would seek comfort in that type of dressing? Nobody is dictating what women should wear but no one should be deceived into thinking that common sense does not have any standards.

Basically slut walkers and its promoters want for women to dress as provocatively as they can dare and not be worried about it. Girls and ladies should not be responsible for their dressing, the whole rape argument is not even at its core - it is the call for unbridled female sexuality. The image below is a flier that was posted in some US high schools (culled from social media only last month) is a milder form of the same thing

EDIT: How can unbridled sexuality be a good thing?

cococandy:
What is male sexuality?
It wasn't a rhetorical question.
And I don't see the answer in this long post.

I'm asking you what it is (in your own understanding) because we are talking about rape and not blaming the victims blaming and you're saying male sexuality is being oppressed by that.
Really?

[img]http://.net/i/637.gif[/img]

Whaat? The level of conflation is very high in your post, whether you are doing it deliberately is unclear so I will restate my initial point;

In the promotion of slut walking its supporters are telling girls and women that their action - i.e, dressing provocatively - is without consequences and that its men who have to conform themselves and behave properly regardless of whether the dressing is deliberately drawing attention or not. Distil that message to its essence and it is that these women want to exercise rights without responsibilities.

cococandy:
So I really want to know what you mean by male sexuality since you're linking it to a cause that says don't rape women and don't blame the victims when it happens.
If asking people to respect women now equals oppressing male sexuality

Again the conflation. Male sexuality is not pertinent to what we are talking about and I am not linking it to rape in any form, it is the shift in responsibility for how women choose to act sexually to the man that is wrong. The point here is that in telling girls that there is nothing wrong if they choose to dress only in a thong and bra to go to the mall they are not doing them any good. In fact these women insist that it is the man who does not respond to them asexually after they've dressed so who has the problem.
You have to ask yourself this: how does telling women to dress like $7 whores help in generating respect for them?

cococandy:
On the other hand, What is sad is that even in the face of big evidence to the contrary, people still link dressing to rape.
Nigeria and India are proof that decency in dressing can't protect you.
Yet somehow we want to blame the women for it and give them some repsonsibility for the offense committed against them.
You're aware that men can get molested too.
In any such instances, have you seen anyone asking if the boy was indecently dressed to attract the attack unto himself?
It is really sad indeed.

Granted rapists are motivated by a variety of reasons and the criminal mind can easily latch onto one of several things as motivations for their crime but can you conclusively prove that slutty dressing isn't one? I personally have never lent my voice in condemnation of rape victims because I am not privy to the circumstances. This isn't just entirely about rape even, its the effrontery that these movements have in promoting what is basically indecency and saying that the consequences be damned.

cococandy:
On the flip side, male sexuality being oppressed is a bad thing? What a horrible thing. OMG
Lmao. But it is okay to oppress women's sexuality. Oh no. Our own meds don't taste nice to us.
Funny. Ask us how it feels. You wouldn't even know what oppressed sexuality is if it hits you in the face. Be a woman first, then you can talk about oppressed sexuality.

Apparently the point I was making about the denigration of male sexuality and masculinity in today's Westernized feminine-primary society was lost on you. Keep churning the wheel that maintains that men are criminals, rapists, warmongering cheaters and sexists by virtue of their gender; masculinity and male sexuality does not need inputs from anyone other than the men themselves to rebuild itself.

double post

bukatyne:
I agree with you Dayo.

On another hand, I thought Amber Rose was anti-feminist?

I doubt that photo of Amber has anything to do with the slut walk movement, she is just being her usual provocative self.

MMotimo:
The 2 societies are so different, it is like comparing apples to oranges. The mindsets are different, the cultures are different, even the girls are different.

In the West, the average girl who works out and has developed a good body as a result, would wear those yoga pants without a thought about sexxxxx; it's simply about feeling good with the way she looks.p and displaying a physique built on hard work. On the other hand, the average Naija girl would wear the same thing on a purely for sale or searching basis. There are "working girls" in the West too but nothing like in Naija where so many girls are living a cash and carry existence, the bod being the product on offer.

Those in the West are doing these walks based on ideology, they have reached a level where they can/almost can view their bodies in an asexual manner, not same with Naija girls. Too many still view their bods as "equipment for sale" so a walk like that becomes more about self advertisement than promoting anything substantive.

In the West, chances of getting away with rape is low if the victim is willing to report to the police. In Naija, likelihood of any punishment for the rappppist is slim which is why a girl has to look around her and weigh the risks. The enforcement of laws and punishment play a major role in when and where you dress like that, never mind personal convictions about modesty. If the Oyinbo girls lived in Naija, they would probably not be doing walks that display their breeeaassts and the liberated Naija girl would be walking with them in the West with breeeaassts bared.

What? So the people in the west have so evolved from the rest of humanity that the basic laws of biology no longer apply to them? There is no ideology that can overrun nature's hardwiring.

cococandy:
If only these common sense approach, propriety and decency helped women in India or Nigeria for that matter.
We seem to have the highest conservative ratio and more decently dressed women yet the rape that occurs within our walls surpasses that which happens in these places where the devil has his abode. I.e the west.
Has policing women helped reduce rape in these rape capitals of the world? I wish.

Does it say anything?

[quote author= =38346736]What is male sexuality?
Raping women?
Because as far as I can tell, no one is policing men on what they wear and how to be prim and proper and decent and virtuous.
In which part of the world is male sexuality being oppressed? Pls tell us.
So because women don't want to be blamed on account of what they were wearing when on marrafoka rapes them means male sexuality is being restricted?
What aren't you saying Hiding behind J Weidman.?[/quote]So the modicum of decency that common sense demands in regards to how women and men should dress is now termed policing? Unlike the advocates of slut walking every reasonable people will take the call to attire one's self reasonably or without provocative intent as a simple sign of good judgement and not a totalitarian fiat or restrictive command.

In fairness one cannot ignore that in some instances people have wrongly accused victims of rape of bringing it on themselves even when the victims were not provocatively dressed but the slut walk supporters with their open endorsement and celebration of slutty dressing are wilfully ignoring the responsibilities that women have when they exercise the rights to dress as they deem fit.

As to where your question as to which part of the world male sexuality is being oppressed - you want to get me started? - the answer is clearly the West and it is seeping in to these parts gradually. In the West any overt display of masculinity is attacked and gutted. Ever since the rise of feminism back in the 60s the image held out before all of society is that men, masculinity and male sexuality are the big bad devils that have oppressed the world. Men and male sexuality are seen as the biggest sinners against humanity and so they have to be "corrected". Name any of the modern day evils, sexual harassment, imperialism, environmental degradation, globalization, slavery, pollution whatever it is, as long as you have a penïs you are are somehow culpable if not directly responsible. Men are seen as crude creatures poisoned by testosterone and so have to be regulated by stringent legislation. A young man cannot alone walk through certain school neighbourhoods without arousing suspicion because of the stereotype that he is a potential rapist or criminal in the making. Even the archetypal images held out for men in the western media when they are not criminals or rapists is that of the buffoon who cannot get things right; sift through Western sitcoms and you will find very few portrayals of the strong confident male, the dad in the show is the clown who is laughed at. . .

. . . Its interesting how even the answer to your rhetorical question of what male sexuality is you answer 'raping women? Masculinity, male sexuality and all of its traditional forms of expression are continuously demonised - so much so that the current generation of young men find it hard to identify any positive thing to associate it with - but we are to celebrate women's when they walk around with only a string as clothing because it is empowering? The whole slut walking thing is just a sad joke.

raumdeuter:
While the criminal is at fault in all cases but individuals too should try their best to not put themselves in bad situations

While its not right for a cop to shoot you, I wont advise you to fight a cop,

WHile its wrong for you to be robbed, I would also warn you from certain areas of the city at certain times

While a drug user is bad, I would also tell my kids to avoid friends who are drug users as they can be unstable

While the rapi1st is at fault, I would tell my daughter dont follow any stranger home

Dont put yourself in bad situations

Well said. But surely you must notice that advocates for sult walking eschew this common sense approach.

Rape attracts heavy penalties before the law and this is rightly so, well at least in the case where it is conclusively proven. In championing the cause for slut walking today's modern 'empowered' woman is however subtly pushing an agenda to the fore, and that agenda as one writer, J Weidmann, expertly put it is this:

The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

Today, and especially in the West where the feminine imperative is on the ascendancy, women want to openly execute their mating strategies without restraint or regard for consequences. If anything, if there be any consequences it has to be shifted to the man and so we have the situation before us today; men are now blamed and shamed for responding to the triggers or cues that the women themselves set off! The lady who dresses provocatively and brazenly advertises her sexuality so, the Sexually Liberated Unrestrained Tart is not to be shamed indeed she is to be celebrated, that's their agenda.

Go grrls, keep walking!

Lol.

Perhaps an anonymous confession site geared at the Nigerian or west African female community should be started. Given the universal human desire to talk and share stories I can bet the revelations would be plentiful and mind-boggling.

One can only imagine the scale of corporate or professional escort activity going on in these parts. Even though many people will only be attracted to such sites or threads because of its salacious nature it may help in removing the scale of naivety that covers the eyes of many men.

onatisi:
Next year will be very very tough for Nigeria. I forsee mass sackings in both government and private establishments across the country.may GOd be with us all

Are you a prophet of doom?

Don't you know that next year the FG will make good of its promise to feed school children one meal per day and pay N5000 to 25 million poor families every month in addition to its other obligations - and all of this would be carried out in the face of dwindling revenue from the country's golden goose oil? Don't you know all this?

It's commendable that Buhari is travelling with a much smaller delegation but one has to ask; what is Amaechi doing in that group? He is not a government official or elected office holder so in what capacity is he acting on?

It's small things like this that can ruin whatever good impression Buhari is trying to create - that despite all the talk of due process and cost cutting, cronism and favouritism still have a prominent place in this administration.

Garden Egg roll.

Neyoalao:
with 70k i will buy better and worldwide china phones like umi.... elephone... ulephone... meizu..and still have change to buy better things other tham buying a local champion phone that isn't even gonna reach Xda for develppers to twerk it

They twerk phones now eh?

NashvilleTN:
My honest view about ish like this is that life itself is a risk. Marriage is a risk like everything else. The fact that there's been a lot of bad stories does not mean one should not do the right thing. If I get a promotion, I will tell my wife; I have never had any reason to doubt her love for me, but if she uses it against me in future; really it's her loss. Cos I will move on with life. I had a similar discussion with some friends recently and we were talking about pre-nups. I said I don't see any reason for it and would never do it.

If I cannot risk my money with a woman, why should I risk my life being married to her? This same woman is my next of kin even for insurance purposes so I don't think even a pre-nup is really worth it.

In an ideal situation the expected thing to do when one gets a promotion is to share the news with loved ones, share the happiness with one's spouse. That's the normal course of action but in this case it was different. Before we vilify the man in question here we also have to consider that perhaps there is an exigent condition that justifies his behaviour. Outsiders like us here are not in possession of all the factors that led him to make that decision so we'll just keep mum and carry on.

On the issue of prenups I think they are a prudent course to ply but given the already skewed state of marriage laws even they are not entirely foolproof. Skilled lawyers can still enable a vengeful wife extract what her presumed due is even from men of means.

I agree that life as a whole is a risk but does that mean that even the marriage institution should be reduced to the level of playing a game of Russian Roulette? I can well understand the reluctance in signing a prenup and I chuck it down to the fact that men are indeed the true romantics. Many of us keep expecting that women will love us the way we imagine. Many of us are in for a shocking surprise.

raumdeuter:
Oga nashville, Na you dey talk like this? For this America wey we dey so?

Maybe the man makes times 3 or 4 of what the wife takes, By the time starts saying she is unhappy in the marriage because some expenses were denied her and she is being abused financially and emotionally, Find a like minded lawyer who would tell her how much she stands to gain etc. The guy would rather accept her demand no matter how unreasonable they are

I know a couple in their 40's who were getting a divorce. The wife in arbitration got the house, Child support for 3 kids, Half of his 401k (Even though she has hers untouched). An SUV.

The man makes like $5000 per month after tax the wife insisted that after Child support deduction she also wants 1400 every month. The man agreed to 1000 but she insisted
Until they met a judge who was kind enough and threw out her request

Imagine what that your friend stands to lose if he insists on not paying up

Seriously though its ish like this that makes marriage a very risk prospect for men in the West. It is said that 50% of marriages over there today end in divorce, so that dream of happily ever after will remain an illusion for many guys. Aside from the pyschological trauma that a divorce generates the risk of financial ruin adds another painful dimension to it all.

raumdeuter:
Oga nashville, Na you dey talk like this? For this America wey we dey so?

Maybe the man makes times 3 or 4 of what the wife takes, By the time starts saying she is unhappy in the marriage because some expenses were denied her and she is being abused financially and emotionally, Find a like minded lawyer who would tell her how much she stands to gain etc.

Financial and emotional abuse.

The first two photos though

Very fat lie.

babygirlfl:
Apextitan, what do you think about this thread?

https://www.nairaland.com/1980592/tips-keeping-good-african-man

This type of thread above is why some women are saying this thread is a welcome development. Personally I think these lists are all nonsense as I believe people should do what works for them. However if men welcome the idea of women adhering to a list of things to do, perhaps they should have a list too that they have to adhere to.

The formulation of lists is not a bad idea in itself, these days people want readily condensed ideas and ways to go about things and this is what lists set out to achieve. There is the danger, however, that certain important nuances may be lost in the process of compilations of points.

My grouse with this thread is not with the list per se but its contents. Several of the points are counteractive in regard to the interests of the husbands it sets out to engage. One senses the subtle, if not invisible promulgation of ideas that work against marital/relationship harmony- its only effect, like I said above, is to fortify the woman's position, whether the husband and his interests are worse off is not its concern.

The list in your link is another interesting one, from my cursory glance of that thread I can see it draws a strong reaction from the womenfolk and this board's feminists because it highlights points that go against what many women are being conditioned to expect and accept in relationships today.

By all means let people, men and women, come up with whatever lists they feel are necessary. The onus is on who the lists apply to to weigh and examine if it really does them any good.

moniyet:
@apextitan, there really isnt any need to be sarcastic. r u married? if yes, i suppose u shld understand that while virtually no man can do everything on this list, if you can do even 15 out of the 40 things listed here very well, ur wife wld automatically turn to an angel. women are actually simpler than men give them credit for, i''m sure even the poster doesnt expect a man to do all 40 things, men will always be men, however there are some men that still give their wives' happiness top priority and this list is just to guide those who are interested in that.

The list is not bad in its entirety but it contains many things that can lead to problems. Surely you have to admit that several of the points on that list are suspect if not completely outrageous like the one about pointing out her mistakes and asking for explanations. That's just wrong advice plain and simple.

Twist and turn as we may the realisation is spreading that men who make their wife's happiness a priority in marriage end up with results they never desired. Too many marriages are failing because men are following this approach and in doing so have allowed the particular things and behaviours that triggered attraction to falter.

Here's a challenge: show me the wife in real life who turned to 'an angel' as you put it after the husband spent his time placating, pleasing and being the dutiful husband as these kinds of list prescribe.

MarvellousGod:
It's small na compared to the number of threads we see about what women should do and not do
Men, over to you

OK, I've got a few minutes this morning.

I must have missed the women threads, please point me to a few so we can analyse together, my bet is that its another laundry list of pop-psychology behavioural requirements like this one.

Interestingly threads like this pop up in the family section citing what husbands and men should do so as to have a happy marriage but in truth their purpose is to fortify the wife's position, irrespective of her condition, with minimal effort on her part. Men, the ever wandering creatures, must adhere to these lists in order to attain to marital bliss. Very clever.

I always find it hard not to comment on these types of threads. Take a look at some of the points.

Stop acting like the battle is won in pursuing and getting to know your wife. Really? The husband should forever be in Romeo-mode constantly wooing and courting the wife even if she has gained 120kg and lost her form to the rigours of childbirth and 'motherhood'. How?

Stop working so much. Find a healthy balance between work and family. Your wife would rather have you than a big house, nice car, etc
We all know that in many cases this statement is an outright lie.

Stop pointing out her mistakes and asking for explanations. Doing these things can make her feel like a failure. Yes, the almighty precious feelings of the wife, she has to remain happy and feel like a million bucks even if she makes a costly or not so costly mistake. She has to remain haaapppy.

Stop putting a number on how often you should enjoy sexual intimacy. Oh no you shouldn't keep score guys, you know why? Being the Beta that she married she doesn't want you taking note of the almost certain decline that will happen in your marital sex life. You shouldn't notice the drop in sex while she achieves her objective which is securing your provisioning for herself, she never was into you in the first place, not really, not like you imagined. So don't keep records like this guy the SpreadSheet Guy (see this link http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/sex-spreadsheet-reddit/)

Never casually or disrespectfully talk to other guys about sex with your wife This is necessary because married men are in the habit of sharing salacious and disrespectful details of how they had sex with their own wives. Who does that?

Don’t be alone with any woman who is not your wife or related to you & Stop discussing deep-level issues with a woman who is not your wife or related to you.. Yup, don't. Because seduction. And you are a feral horn dog.

Don’t be afraid to show emotion. Thank you Carl Jung, because of you wives want to see their husbands cry and let it all out. This has helped increased the attraction wives have for their husbands. Eziokwu?

I could go on with this but I'll stop here. Y'all ladies should chill with these kinds of lists, guys now see the underlining motive behind it all and the truth is that they are produced from a position outside of men's interests.