₦airaland Forum

[quote author=tpia@]S.tupid goats like you definitely need whatever education nl can provide.[/quote]don't simply say that!

we don't make up these findings. they are all scientifically proven and most of us give references. So whomever is interested can get further reading on the topic. we learn in so many diff ways. NL included

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol, I am sure some other translations would read "test". The word used in particular isn't as important as the context in which it is used.[/quote]now that's where we run into all sorts of different problems.

Chief of which, what is the real intent? or the real word of "god" since the bible is one. well, with so many different translations it is impossible to get one hence we resort to using our discretion when we read these! this now begs another question. If we have this inherent correlation of good and evil in our heads before reading the bible, then it isn't a stamp of morality. I think i got carried away there! lol


point is, in my opinion the bible is only subject to reader discretion

[quote author=Mr_Anony]What is the difference between a test and temptation?

A test is when you are put in a trying situation to see what you will do but with the hope that you will succeed.

A temptation is when you are put in a trying situation to see your response but with the hope that you fail.

I hope you get the difference.[/quote]oh believe me i know the difference of both words, but that is not my point just hold on one sec.

Ah! here we are
Genesis 22: vs 1. "And it came to pass after these things, that God did [b]tempt [/b]Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."

its always beautiful to quote the bible


Now u see why i made that statement about "modify as demand requires"?

noetic16: Your IGNORANCE was exposed with your tails running behind your legs. Be humble to admit that DS has educated you and let us all move on . . . .

read the entire thread so far my friend!!

spicy v: Now how do I even begin to explain considering tge depth θf your ignorance? Hmmm. Ok, lemme try! God tested Abraham, satan tempted Jesus and Adam! Test is different from tempt! Two different words with teo different meanings! If you had simply followed the thread you would have understood a bit, but alas, grasping things is a major challenge for you.

has nothing to do with ignorance. He and I are only pointing out the obvious discrepancies in the bible.

Over the years, I have noticed numerous times,

"when it sounds nice, read it literally
but when it sounds wrong, modify as demand requires".... area_boy (2011)

that is Christianity in a nutshell.


He tempted Abraham just as the devil tempted Jesus and EVE.


Some may even argue (not me btw) that he tempted JOB

davidylan: That is a horrible lie but i wont expect you to apologise. I NEVER said telomere fusion is impossible. My argument with you has been clear from the begining - telomeric fusion is NOT a regular occurence as you FALSELY imply but is actually rare and more of a mutational event that is associated with shortened telomeres and chromosomal instability.

davidylan: Nice nice nice! Finally one atheist who has an idea what he is talking about. And it just had to be an area boy.



Seriously... conditions that support human life are only feasibly present on earth and perhaps planet mars. If we havent found anything on mars yet, chances we will find anything on jupiter is close to nil. That we still rant about this "life on other planets" bull is mostly out of our desperation to prove the biblical claims wrong and less about genuine scientific discovery.



Dont worry... i took genetics in class, i dont have to be ordered around to read by the ignorant.



What you initially described is what is generally known as micro evolution (just call it what it is - mutation) which is very well established to occur either spontaneously or by biologically engineered processes. Nothing new here to see.

Now the idea that somehow this tiny mutations... 99% of which are deleterious to the host... is responsible for the complex multicellular organisms we have today is just nonsense. If this were to be the case, why do we still have the exact same unicellular organisms like amoeba today?



that's probably because you are just too thick to think.

Now lets examine your theory here:

1. The idea here is that human chromosome 2 is actually a fusion of ape chromosomes 2A and 2B. Now on the surface, the presence of 2 centromeres and a middle telomere on human chromosome 2 might make this a very plausible idea and hence a reason why humans have only 23 and not 24 pairs of chromosomes...

2. BUT how did this fusion occur in the first place?

a. It is virtually impossible for chromosomes to fuse telomere to telomere (well if it were possible then we would just have one long chromosome no?) so we can rule this out pretty quick.

b. It is not possible that both chromosomes 2A and 2B split into sticky ends and then fused as that will NOT justify the presence of the telomere at the center of human chromosome 2.

c. the only possibility is that one of chromosomes 2A or 2B split into sticky ends and then fused to the telomere of the other... makes sense from a theoretical point of view but then

- We would have to imagine the HIGHLY IMPROBABLE scenario that this exact same fusion was taking place in both the male and female at the exact same time! Why?

- Because if this occurred in only the sperm cell... that would mean 46 chromosomes from the male gamete and 48 from the female - this would mean only 3 outcomes:

1. An unviable zygote
2. A severely diseased offspring that would not be evolutionarily sustainable and thus quickly weeded out by the law of natural selection
3. A perfectly normal offspring that is infertile.



We dont need to read, you can state your points here clearly. We dont ask you to go read when you come here bleating for proof no?

You know, you can always share what it is you're smoking!

that sh1t is good

spicy v: On point!!!

@ op: pay attention to this scripture, tho paraphrased. " Let no man claim that he is being tempted θf God, every man is tempted by the sinful desires θf his heart".

Truth is what you see externally cannot cause you to sin, you will only sin when that external factor resonates with a familiar internal factor! So don't blame the women, blame your untamed lustfull desires.

rubbish!!

He tempted Abraham

ghostofsparta: As I read through these battle of 'genetics' debate...I couldn't help but wonder why a religionist as Davidylan understands genetics in-depth and yet would believe in a creationist account of Adam and Eve. Doesn't he realise that his slightest attestation to the scientific discipline of Genetics which is one of the central to evolution completely negates Genesis.

If I understand you guys (theHomer and AreaBoy) correctly, isn't what you are debating dubbed - The Missing Link?

in most ways yes. i'm not sure i've heard it being termed the missing link though i must be honest. but that is basically the missing link between us and the apes (chimps and the lot).

I put it to davidylan tonnes of time to come up with a counter argument but he refused. Since i'm sure he isn't slow enough to realise that the contrary is even worse than my posts not being true. lol

I still think he needs a COMPLETE refund from that school he studied genetics from

I'm not hating oh! but that car cannot be 10.5million na. haba? above $50k for tokunbo?? why?

fluid26: Dude, I've got a lasting solution for you. *Increase your knowledge base*. Constantly strive to better yourself in diverse fields of study. Such as art, literature, engineering, sports, music, history, medecine...etc.

Girls always trip for guys with such broad knowledge base. It portrays you as an intellectual.

Hope this helps.

works like a charm

thehomer:
Seriously, this is what I face. He presents articles that don't actually help his own case. Well lets leave till next time. Hopefully, he's learned something.

I strongly doubt that. But i'll be in hope with you.. LOL

thehomer: Actually, his own article and a very short piece I presented to him showed him that his shouting that telomere fusion is impossible is actually wrong. Besides, you'll notice that he is actually unable to tell you why he believes that his own view is correct.
One other thing he doesn't realize is that even if telomere fusion was impossible, it still doesn't help his case because the evidence that a fusion event occurred is still right there for any interested person to see.

Exactly the point man!

I just dont understand this david guy! and there he is raining insults on everyone else as ignorant while claming to have studied genetics in uni.

He needs a fcking refund from that school

Delafruita: when i first saw this thread,i thought you meant to be jocular,however seeing as you're serious,i'd point some things out to you.
which part of your bible tells you people are in hell or heaven?i was of the belief the trumphet would sound and then the dead would rise and then judgement would occur and then people go face fire or gold platted heaven.which version is your biblbe or did i miss the memo on the arrival of the prince of peace to take his beautiful bride?

They don't even know the intricate details of what they believe in.


only carry bible to church, without even reading the damn book

MacDaddy01: Bigotry, sexism.


You christians are sick

dont forget encouraging Misogyny

If I may add one more thing.

I noticed you talked about the odds of this happening is slim and since it may be a "mistake" natural selection will "weed" this out.

Again, blatant arrogance towards evolution for you to come up with these claims.


I asked you to read about RING SPICES and you refused.


the ancestors in question were not all packed up in one location. If you have heard of migration (since you seem to hate reading) you will know that species of the same kind that migrate tend to develop new traits for their new environment. In a new environment where this "mistaken" telomere-telomere fusion is favoured, natural selection will weed out the rest.

It is easy to see if you really open your mind to possibilities. Rather than sticking to your Authoritative Abrahamic dictator as an answer to everything you don't understand

davidylan: Area_Boy let me ask you succinctly... Almost all our chromosomes have telomeric caps... if according to thehomer's brand of pseudoscience all telomeres fuse regularly then why are our chromosomes not fused mess? and this is the guy who says he came to make me look silly.

Just brainless sheep bleating meh to the nonsensical noise-making of their fellow atheists without bothering to think on their own.

Clearly you have a problem with reading. contrary to what i said earlier, lets see how you hold out your views. just for the sake of ppl reading this later.

I gave you a clear explanation of how the chromosome fused to give us one pair less than apes. All you have done is tell me that telomere-telomer fusion is impossible. However the pictorial explanation I have given you proves other wise.

It is indeed not normal that this happens, true. However you agree to the concept of mutation (MISTAKES). then what are we arguing here about??


your counter argument is that your Abraham god did it?? That's very scientific of someone grounded in genetics!!!

bollocks

thehomer: Here let me drop a few hints.
1. Telomeres actually can fuse and they do so quite regularly.
2. Sure but you're confusing the tree for the forest. Evolution is gradual and not single generational in animals which is what you're implying.

please ignore davidylan.. atleast now we know who is the ignorant uneducated one!

Note: i never used any of those words to you. all i said is go and read, which you confirmed that you actually need to. it is a shame i can come to your "field" and make u look silly. then u jump to rate me under ignorant.

Fcking childish! i'm out.

on your first point. Put enough "micro" together and you will get "macro". . how many "micro" do you need to have a "macro"?

hundreds?
Thousands?
Millions?

How long has the earth been here? billions of years?
is that enough time for plenty "Micro"??

insert answer here .................

That's the simplest way I can explain evolution to you

davidylan: Nice nice nice! Finally one atheist who has an idea what he is talking about. And it just had to be an area boy.



Seriously... conditions that support human life are only feasibly present on earth and perhaps planet mars. If we havent found anything on mars yet, chances we will find anything on jupiter is close to nil. That we still rant about this "life on other planets" bull is mostly out of our desperation to prove the biblical claims wrong and less about genuine scientific discovery.



Dont worry... i took genetics in class, i dont have to be ordered around to read by the ignorant.



What you initially described is what is generally known as micro evolution (just call it what it is - mutation) which is very well established to occur either spontaneously or by biologically engineered processes. Nothing new here to see.

Now the idea that somehow this tiny mutations... 99% of which are deleterious to the host... is responsible for the complex multicellular organisms we have today is just nonsense. If this were to be the case, why do we still have the exact same unicellular organisms like amoeba today?



that's probably because you are just too thick to think.

Now lets examine your theory here:

1. The idea here is that human chromosome 2 is actually a fusion of ape chromosomes 2A and 2B. Now on the surface, the presence of 2 centromeres and a middle telomere on human chromosome 2 might make this a very plausible idea and hence a reason why humans have only 23 and not 24 pairs of chromosomes...

2. BUT how did this fusion occur in the first place?

a. It is virtually impossible for chromosomes to fuse telomere to telomere (well if it were possible then we would just have one long chromosome no?) so we can rule this out pretty quick.

b. It is not possible that both chromosomes 2A and 2B split into sticky ends and then fused as that will NOT justify the presence of the telomere at the center of human chromosome 2.

c. the only possibility is that one of chromosomes 2A or 2B split into sticky ends and then fused to the telomere of the other... makes sense from a theoretical point of view but then

- We would have to imagine the HIGHLY IMPROBABLE scenario that this exact same fusion was taking place in both the male and female at the exact same time! Why?

- Because if this occurred in only the sperm cell... that would mean 46 chromosomes from the male gamete and 48 from the female - this would mean only 3 outcomes:

1. An unviable zygote
2. A severely diseased offspring that would not be evolutionarily sustainable and thus quickly weeded out by the law of natural selection
3. A perfectly normal offspring that is infertile.



We dont need to read, you can state your points here clearly. We dont ask you to go read when you come here bleating for proof no?

It is really important you check your claims before you make them. I didn't fabricate that picture I put up. it has been observed clearly as evidence of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion! that pretty much throws out your other claims.


Again, you might have discovered this yourself. If so, you might think of publishing it and make a fortune for yourself if you can prove any of your suggestions.

With that you still have the balls to call me too thick to think?? This is "your" field and I have taken my time to study it in my quest to find out the truth about a "god" if there is one!. In drilling engineering I can defend my field of expertise pretty sound.

I only ask you to go read because if you did we wouldnt be having this pointless argument/conversation now. We'll prolly be having a beer somewhere.


Look at the contrary : A "God" made all this.

and yet i'm "too thick" to think. pui!!

Two questions posed to me. I'll obviously take the easy one on first.

When are we gona find this life?. Well, we only just discovered that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around less than 400years ago. As science progresses, more answers will come.

Now to the big one about evolution. Since you have refused to go read.

Unicellular organisms doesn't have to jump into a multicellular one over night to prove evolution. A series of minor alterations occur over time as the system acquires new "attributes" and "traits" that eventually leads to a multicellular one. This can be thousands of years or more.

While we battle about this seemingly difficult question to grasp, we might as well go into a much simpler one that certainly proves Modern Human beings having a common ancestor with our ape cousins.


Now, from the fossil records and close examination of bone structure of our ancestors, Science was able to make a link between us and the great apes. However, less than twenty years ago this fact was proven beyond all reasonable doubt by Genetics.


Now we know that the genetic codes of great apes as well as humans have been sampled properly and viewed under different light. So, if we have a common ancestor with these apes, our DNA structure should confirm that by resembling that of the modern apes (chimps, gorilla and orangutan)

Under close examination, the Human Genome differs from these apes with two less chromosomes giving us 46. Instead of the 48 chromosomes other apes have (23 from each parent for humans and 24 for each parent for apes). This goes against everything evolution has suggested and threatens to discount the idea

We cant simply say we lost two as that wont make any sense since all information for us are pre-registered in there. So the explanation of this apparent loss of TWO chromosomes must be in the human genome somewhere.

Observe the picture below. To the left is a sample of what one chromosome looks like (a representation). with the blue markers called telomere (as it is always found at the tail end of the chromosome) and the red markers centromere (cos its always found at the centre of the chromosome).

Since we only have 23 pairs of chromosome, then an explanation must be in there somewhere why we seemingly "lost" a pair or even why the apes "gained" a pair. Given that the three apes all have 48 each and only us have 46 it is wise to start the search in us (the odd one out)

https://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7807/chromosomesketch.jpg

You know what? the second picture on the right basically is the smoking gun!!! Human chromosome number 2 clearly shows telomere and centromere where they do not belong! correctly suggesting a FUSION of two chromosomes into one. This is UNIQUE to our lineage. hence giving us one less pair and making us significantly different from our cousins.

Happily concluding the fact that is EVOLUTION. We evolved from something that used to look like apes and took a different path and here we are today.



If you don't understand the maths, check here

p1....p2 ( p1,p2 is simply Parent 1 and parent 2)
24....24 ( take two each )
2....2 ( what have we got left?)
22....22 (is all we got left)

the 4 (2, 2) we have above will now fuse their neigbour to become 2 (1, 1)
1....1 (after fusion)
22....22 ( add back the 22)

23....23 ( modern Human)


Im not even a biologist or a genetic scientist and I understand this its so simple and flawless it almost wants to make me say the "work of god" LOL




If you still have doubts about evolution, this time TRY and read "Ring Species". Simple display of evolution in todays world

As a Drilling Engineer, I can outrightly say this is NONSENSE LMAO

Drill down to find hell? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH this post just made my day

I FIT DIE WITH LAUGH

davidylan: you dont have to shout lol. The internet is proven to work... have you ever tested macro-evolution in the lab? Have you EVER seen a unicellular organism morph into a more complex double-celled organism? You're just screaming out of ignorance... i've worked in a lab for 7 yrs (have you ever even seen what a science lab is like?) and have YET to be presented with any evidence to show that evolution is true. For starters... where did the first DNA molecule come from? Higgs Boson?



Again just yelling stupidly. NOW your use of homo erectus was an "intentional mistake"? What was your intent? To look stup[i]id[/i] on purpose?
I wonder why you keep bleating about trapping DS... afterall he was the first to point out your glaring error.

I really hate when people talk like this!!!

Shows you have NO idea what evolution is!! My friend, GO AND READ!!!

ps: working in a lab doesn't make u a scientist or give u credibility


@ original query

1) Dreams come true: somehow you need to understand the "scientific method". one dream out of a million sounds to me like probability (Not a proof for god)

2) De javu: This has nothing to do with the unexplainable or "supernatural". Our brains are magnificent devices that hiccup sometimes when it thinks it recognizes a certain pattern that has occurred before (not a proof for god)

3) Universal Order: we call what we have "universal order" simply because we have no experience of anything different. ever heard of Multiverses

4) Cause and Effect: This is by far the stupidest! you CANNOT relate our understanding of the world we have in front of us to a period when it didn't exist. (Please think carefully of my statement before any response)

5) Life on Earth: As soon as we find life on other planets (or evidence of it), it throws this argument right out the window. "GOD of the Gaps??"

Back in school, In scripture union. we were told to "Pray like it all depends on it and study like it all depends on it"


Well, 10years now I can confidently say that one of the above can be done without the other and still get positive results.


I'm sure you have figured out which one it isn't.


The idea of God is no different from the tooth fairy

MacDaddy01: Frosbel is dying inside, her god is becoming faker and faker as logic and time passes...........

well, look back 400 years when the Christians held that our earth is the centre of the universe. Anyone coming up with anything else (Galileo) is heresy. we now know that's rubbish.

As we learn more about our universe, the ideas of desert dwelling Arabs seems to fade further and further away.


@ OP If you have the balls to ask who created the particle, you can move one step further and ask who created who created the particle How long will that loop be?

Open your mind to possibilities, and you'll see more than you can imagine

antitpiah: Are you sure those people are robbers? Say No to Jungle justice.

My thoughts exactly. by passer-by owned by bullets and they parade them? How can two escape?? with all the traffic everywhere?? sounds terribly fishy to me

don't delude yourself.

No one is coming! we are in this alone. if I may ask, where is he coming from? nonesense
the sooner you realise that the better for mankind.

logicboy01: Hail Shao Khan

lol!!! i'll definitely hail that guy. he's badass and whooped me constantly each time i reached boss in mortal kombat!! LOL


But all in all, why is Kratos always angry?? hahahha

When I read claims like these, one thing immediately pops out. I find it hard to believe that not everyone can pick this out. I guess the religionists have blinded their minds to common logic

why would heaven have similar things like we do?? why don't they dream of something we've never heard before so we know it was really divine and supernatural.

paper, pencils, grounds tearing open, etc....

All fcking made up!!!!!!!!!

if everyone was an atheist, we'll prolly have better reasons to kill ourselves rather than cos some ancient uncivilized group of people dictating the way we live.

Stupid post.

[quote author=Mrs.Chima]It's complicated.[/quote]Pick a number CHIMA. we dont need u to spell it out

Its been ages I had a fight with you. cant resist one

Far from it, not my own invention.

If you read the Old and New testament properly, you'll realise that one is very harsh and vindictive even merciless to an extent where as the other is all forgiving and tolerant. Since we all agree that god never changes, y then did he change is approach and differ in two different testaments?? Part of the reason why the Jewish bible (old testament) does not take on board Jesus and his teachings

Idowuogbo: Emmh...... Let's think of d worst case[b] scenario, u gats[/b] no choice dan to deal wiv tongue, hand and oda objects.

Na better for worse u talk o! So Wots dia to talk about? Loolzzzzz

U dey jonzicate!

somewhere in there u miss a detailed explanation of what you mean lol. but i'm pretty sure everyone understands. Frankly thats what came to my mind when she started describing the guy. lol Something is wrong somewhere!! see people yelling fake "congratz". hahahaha Gd luck on that one OP

I dont seem to see what being a virgin has to do with being a good partner??

I really don't get it. Virginity is overrated!!!!