₦airaland Forum

YourHealthlabs: Like i once mentioned, your Nigerian Law calls them Medical Lab Scientists or Scientist.ref MLSCN act. Section 4, 24

In U.S.A, it is Clinical Laboratory Scientists.

In Aussie, they are Medical Scientist
In U.K...it is Biomedical Scientist

The Nigerian Med lab curriculum equips you with principle of every lab proceedure. For instance I know that gram negative organisms possess thin peptidoglycan walls and therefore won't hold stains during gram proceedures, with this knowlege i can improvise, manipulate and draw out efficient methodology in the lab without compromising result quality. That's what makes me a Functional Scientist. Only a Scientist has this training.

A Scientist in UBTH have developed a diffent method of diagnosis in Parasitology, we were taught that during AIMLS conferences and CPD.

Finally, i don't care what you call me, it's not important. I care about what the LAW calls me.

Arriverderci.


*forgive my typos peeps, i'm in a hurry now*

typos allowed i get your point.

no need to get into the nitty gritty of your job description what it entails is lab science, i don't need to educate you on what a specialist microbiologist does do i.

no one said you are indispensable but the issue is stick to your job description that's all.



i repeat no Dr is against your progression to Msc phd microbiology even professor in an academic setting its your field. lets say the truth.

PharmGreg: what do u take pharmacy for? Pharmacology? That pharmacology that u need just 50% to pass, gush! What does he know about drugs? Just Pharmacology? Almost Every health proffesionals did pharmacology.
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Even if u read a course on drug production u aint a pharmacist and the act setting up NAFDAC says the position should be occupied by a pharmacist.
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Should a Pharmacist be called a Physician because he did a course on public health?
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. . . U knw d truth but trying to hide it.

dude; myopia when images(thought processes) are supposed to land on the retina (brain) land in front of it giving a blurred image.

this guy is also a qualified lawyer do you think drug regulation is all about just DRUG PRODUCTION and sales.

phantom: don't say I told you but skeletal services are being run codedly. the special care baby unit and ICU in Upth has doctors keeping watch as I type this. the same in almost all other teaching hospitals.

same here. I didnt want to say it but screening/management of emergencies is being done. those who are benefiting know this.



hippocratic oath human empathy is really strong.

PharmGreg: what do u take pharmacy for? Pharmacology? That pharmacology that u need just 50% to pass, gush! What does he know about drugs? Just Pharmacology? Almost Every health proffesionals did pharmacology.
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Even if u read a course on drug production u aint a pharmacist and the act setting up NAFDAC says the position should be occupied by a pharmacist.
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Should a Pharmacist be called a Physician because he did a course on public health?
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.
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. . . U knw d truth but trying to hide it.

once again you disaapoint me i hope people have some spare mbs



http://www.nlipw.com/staff-of-the-agency/


salient points on the nafdac act

http://www.dailytrust.com.ng/sunday/index.php/comment-debate/15286-the-facts-and-fictions-about-qualification-for-nafdac-dg


Firstly, the NAFDAC Act does not stipulate that the Director-General of the Agency must be a qualified pharmacist, food scientist or/and druggist (including core drug-related discipline).



please tell us no more lies. the act does not stipulate that the dg must be a pharmacist. I am happy i have said before had he just been a doctor i would have said you had a point.


hope you have heard.

YourHealthlabs: Mr doctor, there are scientific methods of differentiating pure growths from contaminants in lab.
If i see a growth after a week of incubation on L-J media, i'll document my results and send it out. Whatever you do with your result is prerogative. We document for refrence too.

We've seen doctors sending patients to the lab to get a result that was done months ago.

I'll do mine following best procedures and document appropriately.

yourhealthlabs as i have mentioned before you sound like a conscientious individual that isn't because of your training its just who you are.

no one is arguing with your methods of work or your place in the scheme of things you sound smart, is that what this JOHESU stuff is about your work or rather what you have been trained to do.



really man what does JOHESU want according to international standards

Elythron16zero4: a wrong opinion formed/made by a doctor on the development of a disease or illness which forms his basis for drug prescriptions.

diagnosis and prognosis are different. there is wrong faulty diagnosis but faulty prognosis i don't understand.

[quote author=adeola_drg]Sadly, i found out that doctors who work in saner climes are not in support of the Nigerian Medical Association.

For me, even though the JOHESU struggle might have some loopholes, fact is that they're fighting for international best practices. And by this, the medical doctors feel threatened. The MBBS graduates are the undisputed leader of the health care team, anywhere in the world! Other health professionals improving their services by becoming consultants won't disrupt that!

Most times, they'll say 'go and buy jamb form and study medicine' or even say 'u're on of those that didn't get admission into medical school'.

Smh, the days where everyone wanted to study medicine are far gone! Civilization has happened to us, Yoruba calls it 'olaju'. Your glory days are over, your respect can't be lost, it's a default setting.

Pathetic Nigerian Doctors. Op is spot on!![/quote]i laugh at your post. we know what you want to try and achieve but it cant be done by jumping the fence.


ps can you provide links to his qualifications google is not my friend.

rayopt: how this one kan take affect price of garri!


tsw!

you just reminded me of the garri wars. LOL those where interesting times.

honestly speaking i dont think GEJ is preseidential material. thst being said these northerners who are against him because they think it is their birthright to ruke this nation have another thing coming.

i read an article in sunday vanguard about northerners and the birthright to rule nigeria let me paraphrase

the south south has oil
the east has buisness acumen
the west has eductation
the north therefore has to rule


imagine the crap stated by a northerner. following my reading of that opinion i will NEVER vote a northerner as president

bumfem: Y
barnistrr......it is unfortunate u cave in to these liars. I shall reply to all when I am less busy.

JOHESU had won all the court cases at NIC u stay here listening to this born liars.

eagerly awaiting your response.

funny enough every JOHESU strike i have experienced involved locking of doors and equipment. so i concur.

heykims: U re wrong, very wrong. Without d support staff, doctors will still walk coz there re doctors specializing in virtually all aspects of medicine be it d labs, pharmacy, radiiology, mortuary etc.
The non-doctor health workers re aware of this nd dts y they incorporate d record officers, accountants, cleaners etc because they know they re dispensable. Let only d core non-medical doctor health workers viz nurses, medical lab scientists, pharmacists, physiotherapists solely go on strike nd lets see if d hospital won't run...
Its even funny coz now dt d doctors re on strike, all these JOHESU ppl re at their respective posts doing nothing...
But wen JOHESU strike paralyses d health sector simply coz d record officers nd d cashier etc re involved, doctors re free not to even go to d hospital, dt tells u who d boss is...

Sometimes we even strong head and go ahead to see patients, thats why they are quick to switch off power and lock offices. When Drs go on strike they just stay away from the hospitals however when johesu goes on strike why are offices and govt instruments locked and power (NEPA) not gen turned off, my friend the hospital will function when they all leave cos it can.

phantom: ahaa!!! I thought as much.he must have had extra qualifications that made him suited for the job.

allied health workers have been shouting google is my friend. so i googled him


ps i never even heard of this guy till now.

PharmGreg: why should the office of the Minister of Health be oppen to Physicians alone?
Is it a hospital too?

the office of the minister of health. HMMMMM!!!! Let me see


the minister of health oversees all federal ministries concerning health issues, therefore all federal hospitals report to him and who reports from the federal hospitals the CMDS.

now the medical training is one of chain of command hope you see where this is going?



to further explain the Cmds after meeting with all professionals in his setting report to another Dr who by virtue of his training make an informed report to the president on health issues or doesn't that make sense.

The same goes for commissioners, this is all about head of the medical team. okpari nothing more nothing less.

PharmGreg: yea, and thats y I will enjoy Physician-pharmacist collaboration for It was found that pharmacist participation cut the rate of preventable adverse drug events by 66% in America.
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I think this link http://www.acpinternist.org/archives/2000/03/collab.htm will be of help.

this doesnt say anything.


the other link is an isolated incident that occurs even more in isolation when there are multiple drugs in question. I see nothing wrong in asking a pharmacist opinion on that issue. i have personally seen such cases.

PharmGreg: why should the office of the Minister of Health be oppen to Physicians alone?
Is it a hospital too?

he is a Dr, a Phd holder in neuropharmacology and a lawyer. all in one. whats your issue against him. Had he been just a Dr i would have said you have a point but look at the qualifications.




I had to modify this post with proof.


the link
http://sunnewsonline.com/new/?p=46160



the salient point in the epistle


Dr.Orhii has a rare and intimidating academic qualification, which suitably qualifies him as DG (NAFDAC). Dr. Orhii is a trained Medical Doctor, a Lawyer and holds a PhD in Neuropsychopharmacology

. He is also a Biomedical Scientist with vast experience in drug testing and experimental medicine, having conducted cutting-edge biomedical research into new medicines in Russia with more than 10 years biomedical research experience at the University of Texas Health Science Centre at San Antonio, Texas.






ABEG THIS GUY TOO MUCH!!!!!

phantom: my fellow docs please let us try as much as possible to put points across without insults.even when we are insulted let us try as much as possible not to do the same. let us calmly put our arguenents out there in front of the public. some of the allied professionals here are have shown some maturity and civility. yourhealthlabs and bumfem particularly. let us argue with maturity please. I call on both camps to give their opinions with civility and furnish links when they can thanks.

i completely agree as pained as i am. i agree the healthlabs guy has shown maturity. though i still await his response on some issues.

barcanista: The Bottom line is that JOHESU misinformed the Public.

My Sincere Apologies to Medical Doctors and the Medical Profession for my lashes on the Noble Profession. I was only being a concerned citizen with interest in fairness and justice. I acted based on the Opinions I got from JOHESU(They Deceived me with incomplete information) and NMA(they didn't explain to us well).

The Paramedics ESPECIALLY the Pharmacists should reconsider their position and honestly ask themselves these questions:

Will they encourage a Physician or a Nurse to Head NAFDAC?
Will they appoint a Nurse or Pharmacist as Medical Director in a HOSPITAL owned by them?
Will they permit a Medical Doctor to be the CEO of a Pharmaceutical Firm or Plant?
Will they permit their relatives to patronise Clinics/Hospital where the CMD is a Lab Scientist?

so johesu all you need to do is quote this post and click yes to any of the questions!! am out!!!!

harmonyedwards: another display of ignorance!
Kindly post your source.
you also mentioned "scientists". Kindly clarify. Are u trying to group medical lab TECHNOLOGISTS under this umbrella?!
Forget that u modified the nomenclature over the years, borrowing the 'scientist' appellation. For all I care, a battery charger is also a scientist... at least he works with chemicals; the motor mechanic is also one... down to the most junior apprentice.
Do the lab scientists even understand the principles behind the tests they carry out; or they just follow some form of prescribed algorithm (designed by doctors, mind you) to carry out these tests?
I wouldn't blame you...
its because we have a government whose key actors are good examples of ignoramuses ambulating on 2 limbs...
members of the same plumage flock together, that's why they (government) are more in tune with you...JOHESU.
I still await you to provide evidence for the figures you quoted.
I can bet with one of my gluteus maximus that you are wrong!

i refused to comment on the scientist issue as Nigerians are known for their love of titles. you have corrected that issue. thats how some people are calling themselves medical imaging technologist. i have to tell my photographer to call himself image reproducing specialist.

i also bet my left gluteus that he is wrong. i'll also throw in the right for what its worth.



helathlabs guy its poker and your hand has been called!!!!!!

Hawlahscho: O:-)

lols even d pregnansor (d father) too will be terminated

na police go finish the pregnator i can already see the charge murder by pregnation......


headlines man arrested for pregnating a woman who drank jik and otapiapia and died on his advice.






anyway BAIL IS FREE!!!!

PharmGreg: yea, we aint allowed to prescribe POMs. Well, in some parts of the world some POMs are being prescribed by the Pharmacist.
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The regulation differs.. . . . .

Any "sauce" as nairalanders will say for our perusal will be appreciated thanks.

barcanista: 2, will the minister of state understand that he is under the federal minister and not try to undermine him as we have seen that this is the major issue that johesu has on who leads the team. that is left to be seen.

[b]This is one of the problem we have in this country-Flexing of Muscles. In sane climes, everyone knows his role(s) in the society. Ordinarily, a Minister of State should know where his powers lie, who his superior is and his role in the ministry. He shouldn't need a SS3 Student to tell him that he's under the Minister- Who is his superior. This is where the FG need to step in. [/b]

7. this is an issue cos not only allied health workers are under the civil service. going by this request a very large portion of doctors will also become directors so what would this accomplish to have so many directors without regulation trolling the hospital setting. it would be retrogressive to the health sector.

[b]Again JOHESU didn't tell us that so many Physicians has reached or surpassed the rank of Civil Service Director but weren't recognized as such due to control in the Hospital System. Honestly, I thought the restriction was for ONLY JOHESU members. In that case the Status quo should be maintained for there not to be Anarchy in the system.
(NMA seriously have a good case-but not so good PR arm)[/b]

8.the title consultant is not just a specialist. a consultant is an individual who has attained the fellowship of either colleges and is hired by the govt or sets out on his own. they are therefore many fellowship candidates who are still working as registrars even with their status as they haven't been recognized by the hiring authority. these fellows also have a limited time in the system as they would be kicked out to make way for fresh residents to begin training.

the consultant in charge of a patient is the fellow who is responsible for the outcome of management of any patient, despite the other inputs of every other health worker including junior doctors.


[b]
We outsiders wouldn't know the above and NMA never told us the "WHY" of their opposition. With the above, the NMA have a point but they should proffer a middle-ground without compromising patients health, professionalism and sound training

[/b]



@ bolded.


that is left to be seen, this is nigeria and we know how things work at the federal level that is why Drs are not negotiating those terms.

@ 2nd bolded you see the dilemma

@ 3rd bolded now you see the issues on ground.

in other news i have to admire your logic concerning this matter.

YourHealthlabs: Again, like i told one of you on this forum,it is not about your personal opinion. Scientists work into the night taking calls, it is a global thing. That's the standard, you can keep your beliefs it is not relevant here...Sir.

I still maintain my stand on those figures and i'm not very far from the truth.

Finally the Science of Allopathic Medicine can not be relegated for Allopathic Medicine. One is as important as the other.

Thank you.

it means my center doesnt practice international standards as youb are all crying about. lets put that aside.

your figures are wrong, nobody has agreed to earning such amounts.

med lab is under medicine it is what it is

YourHealthlabs: I obey the law, we are both under the law, but NMA continually flout court orders with unwarranted show of bravado.
In a sane society, physicians enjoy the empathy of people as they hardly break laws but you will agree with me that you are losing that empathy, the signs are there for us to see.
This is the first time NLC, TUC and general populace are standing up to physicians, don't you think something is wrong somewhere?, In some countries, teachers, oil workers and miners go on strike in lieu of physicians to press for doctor's rights.

On the University tertiary Act. The "medically qualified" is the term in contention as many school of thought believe that it does not refer to physicians alone in a multidisciplinary sector. JOHESU have gone to court, they've also referred to global best practices about who is qualified to become CMD, health ministers, and other portfolios that physicians greedily sit on.
Modern healthcare practice didn't start here in Nigeria. Let's conform to practices that carry everyone along.

You can't hold any educated group of professionals down for long. It has never worked and it won't work here in Nigeria.

physicians haven't lost the peoples empathy they are only beginning to understand your demands and many are really surprised.

NLC and TUC lets see how that plays out.

the law as you always scream you are under specifically stated those whom are "medically qualified " for the role of CMD. Why are you peeps trying to distort reality.

finally the health practices have always carried every member along its just some people don't want to be confined to the roles which their training as already confined them to. Go figure.

YourHealthlabs: You use dollar fine, so it's no longer about relativity.You want to play the dollar game?

Why don't you tell Nigerians that the pharmacist can earn as much as $120,000 and a Scientist as much as $112,000 annually and that no resident abroad earn six-digits in dollars in other climes. Multiply those figures by your 170 and tell us how much it is.

It can't always be about you. Health system is multi-disciplinary.

Thank you.

you still quoted the difference between the resident and the ho. not more than 20k by my estimation. leave that LIE out of your stories. Besides i thought this was about patient care not about earnings?




edited: i see you have been called a LIAR, can you prove otherwise.

PharmGreg: I get ur point bt, the pharmacist do Pathology in school.
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Am not trying to say the physician is useless in prescribing but, jst trying to let him know that the pharmacists prescribe indirectly and of cause legal what the physician prescribe.

OK lets ignore my initial question on the legality of prescriptions apart from over the counter medications by law. enlighten me on indirect prescription.

barcanista: With the BOLD, the Doctors have substance. Honestly, most people(Myself Included) used to think that ALL Administrative Positions are FILLED by Doctors and HONESTLY I wasn't aware of a POWERFUL office of the "Administrative Director" until yesterday-The JOHESU didn't tell us that it is usually occupied by non-Clinical Professional.

Let me add that the Office of Chief Medical Director/Medical Director Should remain the sole inheritance of Physicians. Reason being that by training, Physicians are equipped with the necessary skills needed for Hospital Management and the have General overview of all the paramedics in addition to their core skills(According to what i read). It will be absurd to appoint a non-Combatant Soldier as Chief of Army Staff.

The Medics need to always feed the public with information on "their own side" of the matter. Honestly, losing public respect is one thing no individual or group will wish for.

Having re-read the Medics and JOHESU demands, I formed the following as "legitimates" solution.

1) The office of Minister of Health should be occupied by a Medical Doctor
2) The Office of Minister of State for Health be opened to other Health Practitioners
3) The demand for the office of Surgeon-General is not necessary
4) The CBN erred by approving the MLSCN to regulate importation of IVF(abi na wetin sef) Equipment knowing fully that the Health Sector is Multidisciplinary. Instead, the Govt should have established a Commission or Agency with Members Drawn from Health Professionals to regulate such and other Health Equipment Importation. (The NMA/NARD should approach the Court instead of striking)
5) The Office of CMD should be the Exclusive of Doctors being that the Hospitals are their primary duty posts and their oversight.
6) The Offices of CMAC & Dep CMAC should be retained since others have theirs and be exclusive of Doctors.
7) Other Health Pros should be allowed to rise to Directorate rank if they are qualified however grey areas should be sorted
8] The Title/Rank of CONSULTANT should be opened to all HOWEVER, other professionals should meet international minimum standard before attaining such Rank instead of just few years of PG Studies. And the "Non" Clinical Consultant should know his place in Clinical Issues. While it is good for a Pharmacist to attain consultant status, It will be immoral for him to use such rank as a barrier to a Physician. Doctors are the natural Leaders of Any Medical Teams GLOBALLY.

interesting post from an unbiased observer who has deemed it fit to listen to both sides of the situation before offering his unbiased opinion.
let me further explain some issues on your sound recommendation

i will answer based on your points.

1, no doubt
2, will the minister of state understand that he is under the federal minister and not try to undermine him as we have seen that this is the major issue that johesu has on who leads the team. that is left to be seen.
3.most likely.
4.agreed
5. agreed
6. agreed
7. this is an issue cos not only allied health workers are under the civil service. going by this request a very large portion of doctors will also become directors so what would this accomplish to have so many directors without regulation trolling the hospital setting. it would be retrogressive to the health sector.
8.the title consultant is not just a specialist. a consultant is an individual who has attained the fellowship of either colleges and is hired by the govt or sets out on his own. they are therefore many fellowship candidates who are still working as registrars even with their status as they haven't been recognized by the hiring authority. these fellows also have a limited time in the system as they would be kicked out to make way for fresh residents to begin training.

the consultant in charge of a patient is the fellow who is responsible for the outcome of management of any patient, despite the other inputs of every other health worker including junior doctors.

in this light what role will johesu gain by having members become consultants. am aware of postgraduate colleges in some allied health institutions and they can get fellowships there but the question is what will the role consultant allied health worker play.

even with well defined roles now there are issues, then to talk of implementing the consultant status on them.

IMO.

PharmGreg: yea, av listened to myself v.well and I made sense. Who instructed you not to prescribe chloroquine for uncomplicated malaria? Physicians or .. . . .
Bro, these guys produced the drugs scientifically. Will they produce something they dont knw how to use? Please, kill down that unnecessary ego pls.

Again I ask apart from over the counter drugs are you by law allowed to give prescriptions. Yes or no.

Slimchy09: Mister...In UNTH, the Chief Nursing Officer is a Medical Doctor and has always been so.... Go figure

This statement in would inquire into. But am very sure its a lie. I would return to update this post if I find otherwise.


Modified####

i have made inquiries and the outcome is










































YOU ARE A LIAR!!!!!!







AGAIN MODIFIED::


let me state the conversation between me and a friend at UNTH


me: guy how far

friend: i dey strike tins

me: how many chief nursing officers una get wen be Drs

friend: chief medical officers i dont know why do you want to know

me: no chief nursing officers who are Drs

friend: chief nursing officers DRs are you high.

me: no " a friend told me that CNOS are Drs

Friend: na wa for you oh

other gist not important to this thread


you can now go and deactivate your account.

PharmGreg: u are correct.

Am very sure I have answered the op you quoted and yourself you are yet to respond to my inquiry.

drobadebayo: Now it's u guys against doctors.later it's gonna be u guys against one another wen d superiority battle starts between nurses,pharms,PTs,labs.its gonna be fun to watch.Again there is nowhere in the world u guys get more benefits than doctors,nd it's nt gonna start in our dear country.

Seconded.

phantom: ....... quackery everywhere! o Lord. oga what training do our diagnostic radiographers have to carry out PET scans? I hope you know its extra training? did I ever mention ct and MRI as the latest modalities in town?? please don't overstate your importance.stick to what you can do.as far as nuclear medicine goes your job description is the same - imaging!
you are nothing special.let's leave PET and pet-ct alone for a minute.even the common MRI machine many of you can't operate.many of you can't acquire flow sensitive images, DWI or PWIs yet you all feel like alpha and omega. its a pity really.

This group is the most annoying of all. Medical imaging specialist. Chaii! We son see for naija.

YourHealthlabs: If an accident/ gunshot patient's sample comes from the casualty ward, a Scientist will tell the patient to wait till the next morning before running pcv, and analysing blood?, when he knows you are always ready to point fingers and blame the lab in the event of the patient's death?.Kai!...you are blatant liar Sir.

No trained Scientist will tell a patient to wait the next morning except it is sample that requires 24-48 culture(which in most cases you'll have to prep media and are not emergency issues) If he does, he erred and deserves sanction.

I'm sure it is physicians like you that requests a blood culture investigation(a lenghty test that takes about 3-4weeks) and then writes 'very very very urgent' on it. We see stuffs like this all the time.

Let me assume you are a conscientious scientist. But the statement no trained scientist would ask a patient to wait smacks of delusions. It is a common practice. I have even seen where FBS and 2hpp patients are asked to come for results the next day. NNothing we never see for scientist hand.

infolekan: Just answer this simple question? Is Medical Lab Science a Core Medical Course or an Allied Health Course? You can use google before you answer the question.
The core duties of the security man in a Hospital will also include something about protecting the interest of patients and for the best outcome of patients bla bla bla......Aside Medicine, Nursing and Pharmacy...every other course is Allied Health and should stay as that. STOP DREAMING and read the guide for the Laboratory Technicians too....I'm sure it can't be less soothing to the ears

The poster you responded to has to be the funniest guy on this thread. Just look at his writeup. U can tell the students when you read what they type.

PharmGreg: the person u quoted on prescription is right.
The Pharmacists are the drug experts, they know too well than any professional on drugs, they prescribe indirectly to the patients right from the industry and thus, will be needed to make meaniningful adjustment when Physicians prescribe.

Prescribe indirectly. Listen to yourself. I asked a simple question by law apart from over the counter drugs do you have the power to write a prescription and give to a patient. Its a yes it no question no lectures needed.

What meaningful adjustments do you want to make in a drs prescription. I can understand dosage discrepancies it has happened to me before. Apart from that what again?


PS the pharmacist doesnt even see the patient so how would you know what parameters the dr used to arrive at that prescription for you to make valuable adjustments