₦airaland Forum

Slimchy09: I apologise for my error...seems i was wrongly [b]mis[/b]informed.

its ok. impressive that you took correction in some circles that makes you the better man.

sexylogan: That's where you are in the dark, my dear. Let me try to enlighten you.

Some nurses decided that since medical doctors become consultants, they too must become consultants (not considering that

the doctor's residency programmes have a strict curriculum with fixed clinical and practical rotations, and standard exams upon

the completion of the specified rotations)... but I digress.

As I was explaining, the nurses awarded themselves with "consultant" titles and in some teaching hospitals, would refuse to join

Doctors (consultant) ward rounds but rather do their own "ward rounds" with student nurses afterwards. When I heard this I was

like "WTF?"

Doctors' Ward rounds, in an Ideal situation, are meant to have a representation of all the health personnel involved in the medical

management of a patient ie. Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, Medical Lab scientists, etc. but the Doctor leads the rounds because

the patients are His. The doctor sees the patient in the OPD, the doctor admits, the doctor sends the patient for investigations

and the doctor writes out the management plan, the doctor prescribes, and when the patient's condition has improved to satisfactory

levels, the doctor discharges the patient.

Now, I'm a firm believer of division of labour. Every health personnel should do what he/she was trained to do. I will not do a nurses'

work, and she shouldnt do mine. The management of a patient is Multi-disciplinary and any attempt to cross over and do another

professionals work is the reason why there is chaos in the health sector today. I respect every health professional and I have no

grudges towards nurses, pharmacists and others. Each groups work is tasking in it's own way.

Concerning JOHESU, well, with the understanding I have, the greatest bone of contention isn't skipping of grade levels. It's

leadership positions such as Chief Medical Director that they want to be eligible for...a position that has been exclusive to doctors.

My take on the issue is this...scrap the title of "Chief Medical Director" and "Medical Director" as hospital heads and give it to

administrators. Being a doctor doesn't guarantee that you will run a hospital efficiently and in most cases, we doctors have been

discovered to be the worst administrators.

Let's allow Public/ Business Administrators to be in charge of running hospitals while doctors, nurses, pharmacists, medical lab scientists, etc

tend to patients.

I rest my case.

Logical i agree but the NIGERIAN factor is my greatest fear.

Leopantro: okay, let me call you out here.

I'm a doctor in that hospital.
1 . FMC owerri has two photocopying centers, the ARD common room and the IT center. the IT center has three photocopying machines and it's a business center which opens from 9am to 6pm and is still running as up this morning.

2. the photocopying center in the ARD common is run and serviced by the ARD. however, anyone can photocopy in the center. because it is in the ARD common room, non doctors are asked not to enter the common but to pass their request through the window to the sales girl to photocopy. this arose because lab technicians use to sit in that common room and meet their patients there, making the patient assume they were doctors as well. Nurses, patients and other health workers photocopy in the ARD center because it is cheaper.

3. the Alvan college of technology is next door an da strolling distance to the FMC and there are so many business centers in that school

4. Soldiers have NEVER, EVER beat up any doctor in that center, at least over the past 3 years . during the last strike the state director of the SSS mediated and over the crisis in that hospital.

5. it was the " notorious doctors" as you call them that revolted against the management of that hospital that eventually got the management to pay back a deduction that was made from all staffs in that hospital that took 7 months to pay back.

you can lie sometimes but not all the time.

youhealthlabs again. you a fast becoming an object of ridicule on this forum. Your " scientific " hatred for the Dr is something else. here you have been caught in another lie in trying to make a point. is this what you do lying up and down on NL.

any psychologist in the house this dude as some deep seated issues. pls pro bono work required.






https://www.nairaland.com/1796140/johesu-press-release-nma-strike/9#24432984




see more of his lies on this thread.

Slimchy09: Crazy guy

I always tell the truth even when i lie.

your account is still active i see.

DrObum: You've simply made no point!
Was expecting a counter argument from you but rather you are just throwing up dust and ignorant rants.
Get facts and then return for an argument!

I assure can assure you that mintyx will not return for a debate with you, ever.

fr3do: carry your beef go hall 3 make they use am cook beans.

GREATEST UNIBEST.

YourHealthlabs: Sorry, that's the ONLY hospital where the ONLY photocopy center there is open to ONLY doctors. It is monopolistic and smacks of insentivity towards the patients.

Even though i don't think is the doctor's lounge, I have no problem with you having your DOCTOR'S LOUNGE or DOCTOR'S BIZ CENTRE, why not ask your CMD to provide a general one for those you see as DREGS in the hospital. Did they ever go on strike to press for a General photocopy center in FMC owerri.
Is the patient not supposed to be king?

Anyway, hope you won't start complaining when Johesu begins to ask for Physio's lounge, Pharmacist's lounge, Scientist's lounge, Nurses quaters and so on.

this man you are declining daily.

the first bolded doesn't make sense, if the center is only open to Drs its a drs lounge. Is there only one photocopy center in the hospital, if yes and its in the lounge then too bad, however no businessman will restrict his product so i believe its the lounge.

however if there's no center outside the lounge that's a business issue not even management problem. am sure people sell recharge cards and soap and other things there so why not open a center, if nobody has seen it fit to invest in photocopying why blame the cmd. ( chai i now feel for GEJ).


you cant have many lounges maybe johesu lounge




guy i really cant believe that YOU typed that am sure your moniker has been hacked.




ps i didn't even know it was you who posted the initial issue that started this discourse.

olamidarsenal: K, let me brush my teeth wella before i go comment.

power of jik

hensben: abeg nah who sing "aye" by davido?

some of you are outright insane

healthlabs guy has run from this thread.

the general84: The patients would be exposed to conflicting management. The pharm consultant or nurse consultant may just oppose the management protocol of a medical doctor simply as a show of power just to impress on the medical doctor that he has authority over the patient also. Is this what you want to happen to our already staggering health system?

The point i have been shouting since.

Meestique: ''Flush'' more like poo! Oh Poor foetus..! Ur mum doesn't even consider u a living thing.

i just taya sef. FLUSH of all words.

girl what you do with your body is your business but i can assure you no help will come from here.

mintyx: Piece of crap from a biased mind! Who lied to Doctors that they are at the heart or the most importantant in patient care? When they keep spewing all these lies, you'd actually think some of them really care about thier patients.

Again why would ur lame brains think that its only you folks that understand or know medicine wholly?

When a Lab scientist does a PCV for instance and issue out a result, do you guys for a second think that he doesnt know factors that can cause a raised, low or normal PCV?

When a pharmacist manufactures a drug and tells u skank head how many dosage you'd use to effect a cure, u term him a support staff huh?

God is watching you all and he has heard the cries of His oppressed children in which you guys have been trying to annihiliate all ds while.

But get this into your heads, the post of minster of health and other heads are purely administrative roles and should be opend to all so you should get afraid cos very soon, you would start getting directives from the so called "support staff".. lmfao

tangential discourse. why so much venom.

YourHealthlabs: It happened, it's on record that FMC ARDs owerri docs are the most notorious physicians. Go find out why Soldiers invaded that hospital and beat up everybody in wardcoat and lab coats.

The only photocopy center there(they call it Doctors photocopy center) in that hospital does not offer services to non-doctors including patients. Only doctors are allowed to do photocopy there.

Infact Patients' relatives have to enter Keke napep to warehouse bus stop about 20mins(with go-slow) from there to go do photocopy and documentations before they can be attended to.
This is a first hand experience. Not 'dem say'.

I 'm sorry i don't empathize with FMC-owerri docs whenever they complain about salaries, Docs there are dreadful.

thats the Drs lounge am guessing and its like that in every teaching hospital. its open only to Drs

milychocs: My mother just told me to ask the "people of Nairaland" to give you a life ban from here!
But what you are saying is the biggest lie on this planet

You clearly are not a nurse
Then as for being a doctor, humans would live in Mercury first!

the user name is slimchy09 for posterity sake, i have already advise the user to deactivate the account.

Elythron16zero4: please read my post above and explain how it justifies your stance on this. ANYWAY THANKS FOR ADMITTING THAT DOCTORS CAN BE WRONG, THAT IS THE CRUX OF MY ARGUMENT BUT YOUR PEOPLE ONLY PICKED ON THE USE OF THE WORD PROGNOSIS IN TRYING TO RUBBISH MY STANCE ON THE POINT RAISED DUE TO ""HIGH SHOULDER SYNDROME" EQUAL TO EGO . CASE CLOSED.

I have explained your post above i first checked mentions and responded from there, i thought this was an attempt at sharing knowledge not some issue about EGO. ( yours to be precise)



wrong diagnosis happens. isn't that what u want to hear.

Elythron16zero4: you are confusing me the more if you say there is no wrong prognosis, how come you said this however if a diagnosis is wrong the prognosis for that particular patient as informed by the dr is also wrong. Is it a contradiction? Now look at this Varicella(chickenpox): The prognosis for an individual with varicella is good. The diseasse runs its course in 2 to 3weeks. complications may include secondary bacteria infections of the skin as a result of scratching open lesions, thrombocytopenia,arthritis,hepatitis and Reye's syndrome. Going by the above analogy, a doctor who fails to associate these signs with this disease even after diagnosis and gives a completely different medication has formed a wrong opinion with the disease in question. although some of these signs may be common with other diseases but where it is obvious that it is for this disease and the doctor gives very wrong opinion and gives medications based on his wrong opinion, do you say that is a correct prognosis? since you are saying there is nothing like wrong/faulty prognosis, can we also deduce from your comment that there is nothing like a correct prognosis

I see you like playing with words so here goes.



Now look at this [b]Varicella(chickenpox): The prognosis for an individual with varicella is good. The diseasse runs its course in 2 to 3weeks. complications may include secondary bacteria infections of the skin as a result of scratching open lesions, thrombocytopenia,arthritis,hepatitis and Reye's syndrome.



at this point we agree that the patient has chicken pox with a good prognosis despite possible complications.



a doctor who fails to associate these signs with this disease even after diagnosis

this is where you confuse me. a diagnosis has been made for chicken pox so all associated complications are considered. how will a dr make a diagnosis and not make consideration for possible complications beats me. A disease condition isnt just a single entity most times multiple symptoms make it up hence the need for history taking to rule out.

lets take the post further

a[b] doctor who fails to associate these signs with this disease even after diagnosis and gives a completely different medication has formed a wrong opinion with the disease in question.[/b]

this Dr who makes one diagnosis and treats something else

so again...

a doctor who fails to associate these signs with this disease may be common with other diseases but where it is obvious that it is for this disease and the doctor gives very wrong opinion and gives medications based on his wrong opinion


at this point bolded above this Dr failed to associate signs to a disease after diagnosis. my question at this point is what was the diagnosis?
here i believe lies the issue. is it a diagnosis of chicken pox if yes then the patient has a good prognosis, ( because good prognosis has been tied to chicken pox as you said yourself)

however if the patient chicken pox and is treated for something else (QUACKERY ??) and fails to get better does that mean the prognosis for chicken pox is wrong, NO!! because the chicken pox hasn't been managed as it should. where it properly managed the patient should have a good outcome (prognosis).

Lets take it a step further as you said there are other diseases that could have the complications listed. lets assume this patient also doesn't have chicken pox but lets say herpes simplex or drug eruptions and he is been managed for chicken pox and came out bad.

The prognosis for chicken pox is still good as outlined but in this patient the diagnosis was wrong therefore tying a good prognosis of chicken pox to him was also wrong ab initio. so the problem here isn't the wrong prognosis but the wrong diagnosis.

Comprende........

Tytto: My dear, am not as ignorant as u seems to think. In my family,my mom is a nurse automatically she belongs to "JOHESU" 3 out of my brothers are doctors so automatically they are "NMA". So any argument i see on nairaland is just a child's play compared to what happens at home. But putting arguments aside my opinion is that both JOHESU and NMA needs each other. Can NMA work successfully without JOHESU? Can JOHESU work successfully without NMA?. You guys need to iron out your differences amicably without putting the FG in the middle.

Men the war for your house go reach ww1

lomaxx: "Let's see whose certificate will be better recognized"

"Let's see who will get employed before the other"

You think you will carry rubbish grammar to go to the western world and they will clap for you ? After committing these unforgivable errors in simple English language, don't you think the "western people" will question your more employable nursing skill ?

In case you were not aware, over 25% of physicians practicing in the US are IMGs. And the number is expected to increase over the years owing to an expected physician shortage. Go to the website of the American Medical Association to see things for yourself. Nigerian doctors are taking advantage of the opportunity in their droves. I know a good number that dumped this thing you are doing in this country to where they fit better. Go to Australia, South Africa, Cuba, China, Germany - you'll find Nigerian doctors all over.

You should rather be worried. Instead you're here having false hope. When we all leave who will treat your uncles, aunties, parents, siblings, and villagers?? Abi when you carry your employable nursing degree to the west, you will carry your village also?

Rubbish!!!

youhealthhlabs i have come to the conclusion that your issue is about money not health standards. you keep harping about HOs salary and payslip i thought this discussion had moved beyond that.


no one earns what u say at that level.

bumfem: HA ha ha...it is a pity that I do not have the lustry of time.

For your information the court never stop the implementation of the co tent of its formal ruling. Somebody approach the court on the burning issue resently purputedly to prevent NMA from going on strike.the So the court give an order that everybody should shealt it's swords pending the hearing of the new case b4 it and that nobody should embark on strike.the U can see your NMA flouted the court order and went on strike. If the court order is in favour of the courtNMA do you thing the NMA would have told the govt and the pubic that court order was not refering to it. Till date NMAhas not gone to court or challenge the NIC ruling . Have u ever ask ur seniors why? Aanswer is simple .They have got nothing to proof .

I really need not react to your point3 because PMO or CMO designate are equivalent of deputy director and directors in othru health profession . u chose not to go by directorate .So why should u prevent others from getting to the peak of their career.

I laugh at your submission on CMD issue . So you are afraid . The committee report may not be favourable . so it is better u scatter it......what a gentlemanly way of reasoning. If you will not be the head nobody will . No matter how reasonable other opinion may sound. DOKITA ......not, never about the patient .....it is all about your ego.

Matrons in various dept are not head of department. They are just in charge of the wards and they wip no influence outside their profession and wards.


Say all the time the truth .
Thanks.

me i have the lustry of time strike neh.

MDCAN went to court not NMA get your facts right. they went to court based on your desire to be what you are not. they are the consultants and they know what they went through to get where they are. nobody jumped fence.

You agree that PMO and CMO are director cadre. The fact that they aren't directors should tell you something. or you think they wouldn't like it. it will only bring anarchy. govt cannot afford to pay all these new directors so it is dead on arrival.


on the CMD issue i have no fear the law stating the post of the CMD is quite clear and no JOHESU person fulfills that criteria.


Ego, Am i proud or are you intimidated. ps it is always about the patient.

matrons are head of ward yes and nurses in clinic too, i thought you all agreed that the head should be a Dr so why would a matron want to head a MEDICAL DEPT.

bumfem: Mind u the position the head of clinical services is still occupied by doctor .No body dispute their them heading this position till today even though nurses can do quite fine in this position. All of this positions are headed by professionall who expertise have a bearing on such dept. of

Now comes the position of the CMD .These are the CEO of the hospital .It is a purely administrative position. Individual with administrative prowess in health matter suppose to be hire for this job. But what do we have in Nigeria. Bunch of anomalies where physician that finished residency yesterday are appointed to head the hospital not for any track record but for myopic fact that he is a doctor . So a man that has not manage a hurt in his life wants to manage an institution as complex as hospital.
pls see my third to the last for JOHESU position on this.

bumfem .

1st bolded it still bears down to who should head trhe MEDICAL team. I think that issue has been thrashed. CLINICAL SERVICES headed by a nurse guy you no try.

my opinion on the CMD issue is known.

bumfem: NIC has made it clear in its landslide judgements last year that health professionals reserved the right to be appointed consultants in their respective field and that individual professional consultant should have their allowances restored .


...That skipping of CONHESS 10 is a product of collective bargaining btw the govt and its worker and therefore illegal to be abrogated by fiat. So all officers that skip should continue to do so.

.....that Medical lab science is a distinct profession and therefore reserve the right to head their department without any influence from pathologist whose primary duty should be in morbid unit .

You may recall that all high profile profession have their scheme of service that guide their promotion and nomenclature at different level or cadre . All heath profession scheme of service pick at directorate. Mind you this scheme of service documents are approved and gazetted by govt. Another profession (physician) is now telling the govt ttoday that govt should not promote professionals to directors though their scheme of service permit them by law to be such promoted. Mind u,doctors have their own scheme of service that culminate in senior consultant . They chose not to go through directorate cadre ..It is like somebody telling u that u should not get to the peak of your career even though u merit it.

The issue of who should head the hospital was being handle by Yayale Ahmed committee on harmonization in health sector. Any matured mind would have waited for the outcome of such a committee headed by a highly revered restored civil servant before embarking on strike .The strike is like preempting the outcome of the committee assignment .

You need to know that there is only one header all the nurses in Nigeria hospital.The position is headed by chief nursing officer or director of nursing services as the case may be, ditto for pharmacy , physiotherapy. In medical practice it is not so. Depending on the number of specialties a teaching hospital or director.MC may have. Their could be as many as many24 specialties all headed by doctors.chief

to continue latter...

guy you actually make me happy with your half truth and outright lies. lets take this from the top all bolded

1.) that judgement has been put on hold by a court because as usual half truths and outright lies were told to obtain it.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/court-halts-implementation-of-fg-johesu-agreements/182258/

1b) on the issue of skipping i personally don't give a rats arse as long as relativity is maintained.

2.) you say the pathologist is strictly morbid anatomy. i hope you aren't one of the lab people if you are no further comment. yourhealthlabs can educate you further on this.

3.) i think this issue of directors i have also explained. Not all Drs are consultants, in the civil service scheme there are Drs whom have been in service for over 20yrs not consultants they achieved titles such as PMO AND CMO. now under this scheme all these Drs will also become directors where does that leave us with a large array of staff trolling hospitals with the director tag ANARCHY. ( can the govt really afford to pay all these new directors) NMA is against this even though it will still benefit some of her members though anarchy will ensue.

the scheme that results in consultants you are aware of I am very sure. A CONSULTANT IS NOT A DIRECTOR.


4.) The head of hospitals aka CMDS. wait for what? JOHESU members have shown their ability to manipulate because we are all buried in books and research so we have to preempt that action.
I have also explained why it has to be a dr. Don't worry that war can never be won.

5.) This is the most hilarious issue.

You need to know that there is only one header all the nurses in Nigeria hospital.The position is headed by chief nursing officer or director of nursing services as the case may be, ditto for pharmacy , physiotherapy. In medical practice it is not so. Depending on the number of specialties a teaching hospital or director.MC may have. Their could be as many as many24 specialties all headed by doctors.chief
[/b]
to continue latter...[/quote]this is also true but with half lies. every medical department (specialty) has the chief nurse in charge of all the nurses, there's only one pharmacy so one chief pharmacist ditto physiotherapy, there's ALSO ONLY ONE CMD.


bring it on!!!!

Elythron16zero4: WHY ARE U EXCLAIMING JUST PLEASES EDUCATE ME AS A NOVICE PLS!

[/quote]before a prognosis can be considered a diagnosis MUST have been made so if a wrong diagnosis is made it follows that the prognosis following that would be wrong. however if a diagnosis is made then the prognosis is ALMOST a guarantee depending on what studies have shown.


e.g stroke patients have a 70% chance of survival (an example not actual figures) then the prognosis is that out of every 10 patients with stroke 7 would survive. so this is in play once a diagnosis of stroke is made, however if the patient doesn't have a stroke and is misdiagnosed and given same prognosis isn't it wrong from the onset. what is wrong here the prognosis or the diagnosis.

the above post is just for example

stop playing with words not all readers here are put off with links or long drawn explanations.








only after a diagnosis is made can a prognosis come into play therefore there is literally no such thing as a faulty prognosis because a prognosis cant be faulty it is iron clad with respect to the disease in question. however if a diagnosis is wrong the prognosis for that particular patient as informed by the dr is also wrong.

There is no such thing as faulty prognosis only [b]faulty[/b] wrong diagnosis.


1)defines it as an opinion, based on medical experience of the likely development of a disease or illness;(2) the judgement about something is likely to develop in the future


i believe that i have explained however info me if more clarification is required. sorry about the exclamation.

Elythron16zero4: I Agree with you on the no(2)meaning of prognosis. of prognosis but @bold can you explain prognosis from the no(1) meaning from the dictionary and i will be cleared. It means prognosis has two meanings.prognosis according to Batman medical dictionary is a prediction or forecast of the course or outcome of a disorder/disease/illness.
Oxford advance learners dictionary (1)defines it as an opinion, based on medical experience of the likely development of a disease or illness;(2) the judgement about something is likely to develop in the future.

JESUS CHRIST!!!! AGAIN?

YourHealthlabs: When you succeed in abrogating the law so you accurately call me a Scientist then you'll be right.
Till then you call me tech, i can call u a wardman, only those who feel insecure will bw fazed, they are all titles, our thoughts are not more important than the law.

I don't know what the law calls Surgeons in Nigeria in the to MDCN act, but they are addressed as 'Mr' in some advanced countries. You can educate us in that respect.

Thanks.

i have said before you are smart and conscientious do not allow the primitive nature of grabbing power to affect you as shown by the so called leaders of johesu, its all a grab at what isn't theirs in the first place.
surgeons are called Drs in Nigeria i know of profs who also prefer that title of Dr not prof

in other climes I am well aware that MDs bear the title Mr. nothing for/against that
.
phd holders are also called Drs, have you heard that MDCN ever said that the title Dr should be should be restricted to only medical Drs. NO!!!

The consultancy role is what is in play here.

phantom: yes but the same industrial court has put your agreements with the FG on hold. they've probably realized johesu didn't give them the full picture

THE Drs major problem is one of book book book. that's why when many of this things are happening we aren't even aware of them.

JOHESU went an obtained frivolous entitlements without the say of the medical TEAM which they always shout about and now the medical team went to the same court explained and all requests have been put ON HOLD. what does this say


as barcanista said the public has been highly misinformed on this issue.

U.R UMUAGO STILL AS VIBRANT AS EVER.

upmanagers: Gdday ma,
My advice as a staff of NHIS. Is that it would be better for you to have first hand knowledge of the hospital you choose rather than have people suggest to you it would be best to go through the hospital list and search for hospitals close to you then personally check them out or ask people that have actually been using them.

agreed. though in my experience when working as a medical officer in a private setting, hygeia provided better coverage though its still dependent on the hospital in question. your location concerning the issue will be of help.


my advice is for you to get the list of hospitals who have retainer ship with the HMOS and check them concerning the issues you will like dealt with.

Elythron16zero4: I have said they are different in one of my post and do you also say there is also no wrong prognosis because you are bias , then disprove these synonyms of faulty
ˈfɔːlti,ˈfɒlti/
adjective
adjective: faulty; comparative adjective: faultier; superlative adjective: faultiest

not working or made correctly; having defects.
"a faulty brake"
synonyms: malfunctioning, broken, damaged, defective, not working, not functioning, in disrepair, out of order, out of commission, inoperative, unsound, unusable, useless; More
informalon the blink, on its last legs, kaput, bust, busted, conked out, acting/playing up, gone haywire, gone hut, done for, wonky, dud;
informalknackered, duff;
informalon the fritz
"a faulty electric blanket"
antonyms: working, functioning
(of reasoning and other mental processes) mistaken or misleading because of flaws.
"faulty logic"
synonyms: defective, flawed, unsound, distorted, inaccurate, incorrect, erroneous, imprecise, fallacious, wrong; More
impaired, weak, invalid
"her logic is faulty"
antonyms: sound
having or displaying weaknesses.
"her character was faulty"

Translate faulty to
Use over time for: faulty

Christ don't you ever learn. The issue here is not grammar but in relationship to the patient who is foremost


before a prognosis can be considered a diagnosis MUST have been made so if a wrong diagnosis is made it follows that the prognosis following that would be wrong. however if a diagnosis is made then the prognosis is ALMOST a guarantee depending on what studies have shown.


e.g stroke patients have a 70% chance of survival (an example not actual figures) then the prognosis is that out of every 10 patients with stroke 7 would survive. so this is in play once a diagnosis of stroke is made, however if the patient doesn't have a stroke and is misdiagnosed and given same prognosis isn't it wrong from the onset. what is wrong here the prognosis or the diagnosis.

the above post is just for example

stop playing with words not all readers here are put off with links or long drawn explanations.

PharmGreg: its nt all about drug production and sales but, what does he even knw about the drug production.
http://www.nlipw.com/staff-of-the-agency/
.
.
I WIL COME WT MORE LINKS

dude i already used that link above to buttress my point. it never said the dg MUST be a pharmacist and that's the LAW. The man is a doctorlawyer and has a phd in pharmacology. the only issue you have is that he is a Dr.




as another poster said assuming this fellow had a pharmacy degree first then proceeded to do medicine will this come up



please. call a cutlass a cutlass