₦airaland Forum

Seun:
In response to just the video: Respect to Pastor Sam Adeyemi. As he said, no Christian should be made to feel guilty for not paying tithe. Hopefully, other pastors will follow his lead.

You still don't get the concept. A man and his money can be so hard to part, especially in an economy as tough as Nigeria's.
I have been in churches where so much get said on tithes, where its importance is utterly emphasized, yet people's payment are really paltry.
And I've been at other churches where all that's said is "Those who have their tithes should please step forward to present" and you see people come out in their numbers to make meaningful payments.

So, as Adults, we don't pay tithes because of cajoling, or out of fear as you may think. We just see an investment vehicle that offers pretty high returns, and we want to lock in for as long as possible. That's how it is for most true tithe payers. It's a strange concept to you, so why should you think your assumptions regarding its modalities are true?

Seun:
I believe the story, but I want more details.
This is the church that disciplined the founder’s son because his wife’s modest bridal gown was not as ugly as they wanted it to be.

Quote the statement that indicates that it was for lack of ugliness in the Bride's gown that the church react. You shouldn't be saying what's inaccurate should you? Doesn't that violate NL's rule?

I could spank my child, and you start spreading information that it's cos I hate him. if you haven't heard me state that to you as the real reason, you'd be passing out wrong info.

Seun:
Lesson to mothers: this is what happens when you raise your children to have superstitious beliefs. Why not raise them as atheists?

.

Is that the new definition of an atheist? one without superstitious beliefs?

I'm a Christian and I don't believe superstitions. So i'd say mothers should rather raise their kids to be real Christians. The benefits are endless. can't say the same for being an atheist though.

You may want to list the benefits of being an atheist. if they are more than those of being a Christian, I'd switch to your side, but you surely know they are far lesser.

Seun:
Some minds are wired differently, I guess.

BY WHOM?

budaatum:
What awesome seems to have is utter contempt for others. He would have said otherwise if he thought or felt different.

Wrong judgement. Quick to anger, then I'm guilty. Disregard/ Contempt for anyone, God forbid.

Tasma:
Lol your argument would only stand if you could prove that it was God that gave the answer to your prayer. If Exxon gave me a job I can prove that Exxon wrote the acceptance letter to me. Can you prove that it was your concept of God that answered your prayer more so since people that don't even pray receive same blessings. Receiving a "blessing" does not acknowledge the source of the so called blessing. Does this make some sense to you?

You probably didn't read the thread from the beginning.
In my foremost analogy,
I said I wrote a letter to my guy in New York, asking that he'd make me get an 'A' in MTS 415. In the end about 5 out of 90 of us in the class got 'As'
Asking the other guys how they made the grades, some would tell you it was their hard work, maybe another would mention his closeness to the course instructor as being the cause.

on my own part, I know all I did was write a letter, and I got the exact thing I requested for. So it shouldn't be difficult for you to agree when I say it's my letter to my New York guy that wrought my success.

Now ask yourself, why do people ask successful folks for the secrets of their success. It's basically because, we realize that the one who achieves a thing is the one in the best position to tell the means via which it was achieved.

Kenneth Hagin prayed, and got an instant healing. Tell me what you think the source of the healing was, if you think it wasn't prayer.

MuttleyLaff:
No brother, it isn't bout me. I just felt you slighting anyone on that thread wasn't called for You may and/or could have said their arguments were feeble I thought

I agree. Apologies to all concerned.

MuttleyLaff:
The second line emboldened was so uncalled for

I guess you thought the comment covered you. I was referring to just some 2 guys or so, who quoted me with silly arguments.
Unless you think you did, Relax man.

Tasma:
Naa praying and receiving and answer to your prayer is not proof of a God. The only way to prove there is a being that answers prayers is if everytime anyone prays to him he receives his prayer request. If there are cavaets like was he praying sincerely or did God also want what he wanted for himself then there is no way to prove the beings existence. Furthermore people receive this same "blessings" though not praying at all or praying to myriad, different concepts of God. Again I repeat one persons subjective appraisal of whether prayers are answered cannot be held proof of the existence of a God.

Why do you guys make silly arguments like this now.

I apply to Exxon for a job, I got the job, does it have to be that everyone who applies to a job at Exxon gets it before your own funny imagination actually gets convinced that Exxon exists to give people jobs.

And the fact that other people get jobs without applying to Exxon, in your own mind, that means Exxon doesn't exist to give jobs?

Really lame line of thought if you ask me.

Just finishing March Holyghost service now.

I've read through my mentions,. and really there isn't any which deserves a response.
Buda doesn't seem to know if he's claiming my New York guy exists or not, just some long epistles.
The other folks' comments seem immature and off point.
So thanks for saving me time.

However, if you have any reasonable argument that doesn't involve you going around in endless circles over talks we've had, bring it ON.

budaatum:
Yes, I agree, so long as your religion remains in your private sphere.

However, if the claim is that even things we do not get - you by writing letters to your guy in New York, and I by my means, i.e. the earth we live on, oxygen we breath - is claimed to be given to us by God (see quote below). Since I am a recipient of these things, do you see why I get to argue the point in your face?

It still doesn't follow.
The only claims you can make are:
-He's not the one who gives you oxygen.
-He's not the one who created the oxygen in your own atmosphere.
No problem with the above claims.

But you still couldn't possibly tell it to my face that my New York guy doesn't exist, because I have countless experience with Him that prove that He does.

adepeter2027:
I love this part of your point.

But we can observe the growth these microbes with our bare unaided eyes on various media.
Morphologies of these microbes can be describe.
Features of these microbes can be described.

And the equivalent of this argument is:
But we see the undeniable works of God in different beings. And the attributes of God can be described.

adepeter2027:
I love this part of your point.

But we can observe the growth these microbes with our bare unaided eyes on various media.
Morphologies of these microbes can be describe.
Features of these microbes can be described.

And the equivalent of this argument is:
But we see the undeniable works of God in different beings. And the attributes of God can be described.

adepeter2027:
There is nothing supernatural, just that the naturals are not yet understood

Somebody is at the point of death, given up for dead, and just by praying he got restored to a whole body in an instant. There There's nothing supernatural in that?
Would it be foolish of me if I said to my friend concerning a computer game he shows me that "I just don't understand the details yet, but there's nothing like codes behind the working of this game"

Is it not an established fact that nothing happens without a cause? And when the causes of something defy natural orders, would you not be foolish to say that cause isn't beyond natural?

Seun:
If God wants to have a close relationship with us, it makes sense for him to start by doing things that undeniably demonstrate his existence.

And He's been doing that for ages.
It's just you who have chosen not to pay attention. His undeniable works are obviously conspicuous. if you want I could mention some out of the endless list.

You insist that the only proof that'll convince you is for Him to appear in the sky. Now since he won't do that, why not see if there are other things that'll cut it for you.

Tasma:
Lastly using your subjective experience to declare the existence of your own particular God is disingenuous. For every 1000 answered prayers there are another 1000 unanswered ones. Also people get "answered " prayers praying to different concepts of God.

Just my two cents.

You may just keep those cents bro.

Now about answered and unanswered prayers.

The fact is even if it's only one prayer that gets answered, it is enough to establish that a God exists who answers prayers. If a million other prayers don't get answered, it still doesn't change the fact.

Take an instance,
Somebody says "road crashes kill people"

If for every 100 people that die by road crashes. a thousand others don't, doesn't change the validity of the statement?

And about having several gods, and knowing which one is right, that's not the issue I have with atheists. The issue I have with them is that they emphatically claim out of their ignorance, that God, and by extension, the supernatural, doesn't exist.

So, it only makes sense to try enlightening them.

tintingz:
You're the one going strawman.

You're finding it hard to answer my question, you were the one that brought up Dangote and Zenith bank not me, I only respond to your post accordingly. So kindly stop the strawman.

Again, it's obvious Dangote is rich, his investments are tagged with his registered company name "Dangote Group", that is his trademark, Dangote doesn't need to show us truck of his money, like I said this is 21 century, the net worth of his wealth is online, Zenith Bank is also a registered company name with his trademark, no other person can claim ownership, these are prove of their ownership! You're yet to show Yahweh's prove, any God can claim ownership of this universe and they can be refuted.

So again, my question is, Yahweh or other Gods should appear in the sky to prove they are real, using Dangote or Zenith bank is absurd.

How far with you now?
Can't you see the obvious fault in your argument?
You insist that Dangote doesn't have to show a truck load of money, as there are other ways to verify his networth.
And I told you, God doesn't have to appear in the sky as there are other ways to verify his existence, vis his countless conspicuous works.

You insisting that it has to be a sky appearance for God is exactly the same as a folk saying it has to be a truck load of cash for Dangote.

isn't this straightforward enough.
Please take time to read this post slowly, and make sure it's well understood before you respond. Thank you.

budaatum:
Though, in all honesty, I posed it first.

The thing is, your belief in the guy you write to in New York is pertinent to you, and would only become a question for me if I consider writing to him. Otherwise there is absolutely no consequence whether I believe you or not. And its the same with Gods. If I know my god exist, why do I have to prove it to anyone? If you don't accept that I get what I get from my god in New York, that's your problem and I don't have to prove it to you!

Sure.

I would only need to prove the existence of my God to you, if out of your ignorance, you chose to emphatically say it to my face that he doesn't exist.

hopefulLandlord:
Fallacy Detected!

Fallacy name : Argumentum ad Populum

Meaning: Latin for " argument to the people " ) is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as: "If many believe so, it is so."
It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held does not necessarily guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

Examples: Everyone's doing it; therefore, it must be good.

Billions of people agree with my viewpoint; therefore, it must be right.

Save us the lecture prof.
Guy said God begs people for love. I debunked that, saying He's had billions of people who willingly served Him, and so he couldn't possibly be begging anyone for anything.

Now, when you would interprete that, what you got was "billions of people worship God, therefore He's true".

Maybe you should turn on gravity on your mobile device if that's what you're viewing with, cos it appears you read the post up side down.

frank317:
Really God might not need to show us his face but with all his powers ans awesomeness and wisdom he just cant anything that can prove to the world he exists ?
Sometimea i think u guys dont really understand what comes to mind of a human when u describe God theu way u do? Or i think somewhere in ur mind u guys are actually joking and dont take u own words serious. Or u dont really beleive he is as great as u make him sound.

This is someone who supposedly created the whole universe, knows our yesterday and tomorrow, knows the thought and future actions of ove 7billion people all over the world. Knows everyone before he is born...yet u are telling me to know he exists i must depend on ur ezperience of him and have faith and read ancient jewish story book?

How does he suddenly stop being this almigthy God when it comes to showing the world he exists? How come its u who have the power to show us God, as great as he is, exists?

Is something not fishy?

You're on a wrong page.

I didn't say God cannot show himself. it's easier than the easiest for Him to do that.

I gave an illustration about Dangote to show you that for any mature personality, the rantings of some folks who doubt their status could never bulge them.

If you insist Dangote should show you his truck load of cash to prove his wealthy status. Then it's becomes established that He wouldn't even regard that, talk less of do it. As an open minded person, wouldn't you seek other available means to verify his wealth status? Would you not try looking into his assets and investments as proof? So it's silly asking God to show Himself, when His works are conspicuous and countless.

frank317:
Why will anyone ask Dangote to show him a truck load of money before accepting he ia the richest man ib Africa? Whats he doing with such knowledge? Why will dangote prove to anyone that he is that rich? Will u give him extra money?
Ur God is all over the place pleading for love, killing his son for our sake, asking us to look unto him, telling us our present and after life is in his hands, even threatening is with hell if we dont love him back yet he prefers to hide and use the experience of a human like me to prove to me he exists. Even if your god exist, why ia he acting like a confused fellow?

You'd do yourself a whole lot of good, making efforts to discard the ignorance you're here flaunting.

In case your mind deceives you, there have been billions of people in all generations, much better than you on several notes, who have willingly lived their entire lives serving God.

So why in your silly imaginations would you think he needs to beg anyone for love?

if you saw just one angel, the experience would overwhelm you, yet He has billions of them worshipping Him, and can make trillions more if He wanted?

God isn't begging you for anything? He couldn't possibly be. He's only offering you a way out of an impending eternal damnation. You may chooses to reject Him. Millions of people do, makes no difference. Safe journey to wherever you think you're headed after life.

budaatum:
If you say, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone", while you are not claiming becoming wealthy happens to only you, you are claiming some level of uniqueness. And that's okay.

So, you write letters to a guy in New York to get what you want. I don't write letters to anyone in New York and still get what you get. So, it does not happen to everyone, but I am saying it happens to me, that I get everything you get except I don't write letters to guys in New York. (That was my first response to yours and you never said I don't get what you get, which if you had, would have sent us off on another course of discussion.)

Since I already get everything you get, I am saying your source is irrelevant to me, and there is no reason to doubt you. And I would be very stupid to claim your source does not exist, if the conversation were to stop there. (Please note that last sentence very carefully!)

It only becomes relevant when you ask me to write to your guy in New York, which I would only need to do when you get something I am not getting from my source.

I'm glad the pattern of our argument has been established to you now.

So now, please quote where exactly I said you should write letters to my guy.

tintingz:
The owner of Zenith bank has his name legally registered, there's evidence he owns the company, no other person can claim the ownership!

I still don't get your point, please Yahweh should show us himself from the sky.

You seem to be forgetting your own line of argument, so I'll remind you.
"Dangote does not need to show a truck load of cash to prove he's rich, cos his investments are obvious"
The equivalent of that is our position that
"God does not need to appear in the sky to prove he's real cos his works are obvious"

Then you raised the point about Dangote's signature being conspicuous on all his investments.
I then gave you an instance wherein someone may choose not to put his signature conspicuously on his investment.

So when you come now with the argument that the person's name is registered legally, you are forgetting where you started the argument from. You said because his investments are obvious. So the legal documents that establish an ownership, are they displayed on billboards? Have you seen any certificate of ownership for any of Dangote's businesses?

So, the talk on registration doesn't tally with your argument of "because his investments are obvious".

budaatum:
Please note the two statements in red. Are they not contradictory, one claiming it only happens to you through your means, the other claiming it happens to others through other means.

As I mentioned. There is no reason for you to have to prove your guy in New York exists unless you are trying to get me to write to him. And since you seem to be insisting so much, I now wonder what you gain is.

baba, there is a reason they made English language compulsory in schools now. It's to aid easy comprehension.

If I said, "I am wealthy, and that's not something that happens to just anyone" It doesn't mean I've said that being wealthy happens to only me. it rather means that I am saying it doesn't happen to everyone. Please take a deep thought on that, it should sink.

Now, your assumption that my motive for proving my guy's existence to you is to get you acquainted with him is wrong.

You claimed he doesn't exist, and my primary motive is to show you that you're wrong in that claim.

tintingz:
You're not getting it, Every investment Dangote made there is inscription of his trademark "Dangote Group" to claim ownership, abeg where is the trademark of Yahweh written on what he created?

Yahweh should come out and claim ownership of what he claim he created, he should show us he's real and not imaginary, I will never deny!

You rather are the one not seeing the obvious.
You don't have to see Jim's name on Zenith Bank or Visafone to know he built those businesses. You could just ask folks who work in those companies, they'd tell you it's his handiwork.

So, when God instantly heals Kenneth Hagin of cancer, contrary to your opinion, he doesn't have to scream to anyone that He did it. You could just ask Kenneth himself, he'll confirm it to you.

superhumanist:
Lol....you should read about how many people leave those experiences with God and become atheists because of rants on the internet

Well, it's obviously their choice and not my business. If it works fine for them. I've got no issues with them.

tintingz:
If God appear in the sky and said "oh humans I'm Yahweh or Brahma your lord thy God" who wants to deny that?.

You would still deny.
You claim Dangote doesn't need to show a truck load of money to prove he's rich, because his investments are obvious.
Just take a deep thought, and tell me how that is any different from what we tell you that:

God doesn't need to show himself in the sky to prove He's real, because his works are obvious.

What's the difference between both our claims.

Try to read the narration I gave of Kenneth Hagin's healing from cancer, then attempt to explain how it's anything short of the supernatural. If you fail at that attempt, then you'd have to take that narration as an evidence for the existence for the supernatural.

superhumanist:
Wrong analog


I know that you are lying the same way my 4 year old is lying when he says santa Claus is his friend.

You know I once made a post about this Santa Claus. I said why don't you atheist spend so much time trying to convince folks that he doesn't exist.

It's basically cos, you don't have to. Since there aren't many people if any who have had experiences with him, no one thus finds any reason to hold on to such belief in his existence no matter how strongly they've had the belief in their childhood.

But with God, you were the vast majority of the human population across all ages and through every generation still holding in to their belief in Him, why?

Surely cos they have experiences which confirm His existence to them. Should they stop having such experiences, it won't be long before the whole idea fizzles off. But we'll keep having the experiences, and generations after us will yet have them. So no matter how much you make baseless rantings, they'll always be a waste of your own time.

OLAADEGBU:
If Rahab did not lie God would still have protected those spies but for Rahab lies we have been denied the chance to see how God would have done it.

Brilliant thoughts there my brother. And I'm sure we can still know for sure how God would have done it, when we get to ask Him in person in heaven.

OLAADEGBU:
Even with circumstantial evidence atheists still refuse to accept the existence or resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's how it is with them o. Even if God appears in the sky, they will still claim it's not God. They'd say it's just an alien from another galaxy.

superhumanist:
Your insults only confirm that I used logic to puncture your hot air balloon of nonsensical defense for an imaginary God.

Don't Lett pain and butthurt frustrate you. The truth is bitter but it will set you free.

It is not hard to admit that there is no evidence for God.

Really, sorry for the insults. it's got nothing to do with my faith though.

it's just, if you were coming out from a movie theatre with your spouse, and one silly guys runs to you with grasses in his hand and hands them over to you and your wife to start eating, and he tells you that he knows you guys are not real humans, and that you're actually animals who just have the illusion of being humans.

If this happened to you, you may be more provoked, and react to him worse than I did.
Why? cos this is a guy you've never met, and in his own silliness now thinks he's to define to you what your life and experiences are. that's what you did man.

If you don't know me, it's pretty silly of you to say some relationships I have are imaginary.

superhumanist:
Ogbeni, tell me what good looks and sounds like.

You have an almighty friend you cannot describe or explain to people.

Who are you man?
How tall am I? Since you don't even have the slightest clue of my person, how could you be convenient just assuming I can't describe people in my relationships?

You can't eat bread, you can't even talk with your own daughter. Is it reasonable at all for me to say these things about you when I don't have the slightest clue whom you are, African or Briton?

Na real wah for you o.