₦airaland Forum

birdman:
its a mistranslation. In 1 Samuel 6:6, you can see another account.
It was pharoah that hardened his heart.
Translating Hebrew to English often involves concepts that are alien to the culture of the translator,
At such places, you will usually see translators making interpretations based on their cultural biases.
You can see the same when you read up a Yoruba bible for example.

The important thing is that it is dangerous to build theology based on one bible verse.
You need several verses speaking in alignment to do so.
When you see a misaligned verse like
"The LORD hardened pharoah's heart" in exodus, you can usually tell there is translational bias
because this does not jive with the overall character of God portrayed in the bible.

Not just 1 Samuel 6:6
but also Hebrews 3:15 below for harmony, inconjunction with the heart/wet sponge and/or school boys fighting illustration(s)

As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
- Hebrews 3:15 ESV

Scripture says,
"If you hear God speak today, don't be stubborn.
Don't be stubborn like those who rebelled."
- Hebrews 3:15 GOD'S WORD® Translation

https://www.nairaland.com/2112232/why-does-god-sometimes-hardens/2#30123402

clevvermind:
i have already given my little explanation based on what i understand as to why God hardens pharoah's heart except u didn't saw it. so no need to wait. it should not be a do or die affair. i'm still learning though.

^^^
Patience is my middle name, so I dont mind waiting

Am glad you've admitted and confirmed that its not a do or die affair
I saw your explanation which I said was a rhetoric and dismal WHY

Please read posts carefully, you dont have to be hasty to reply or send responses back

The request I made by the way to you, was about HOW, HOW did God harden Pharoah's heart
and not WHY God hardened Pharoah's heart

InvertedHammer:
/
At what point will you humans stop trying to figure out what God is thinking?

Can you even decipher what a human being is thinking?
\

^^^
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
- Proverbs 25:2 King James 2000 Bible

adexsimply, your attention is needed here please:
https://www.nairaland.com/2112232/why-does-god-sometimes-hardens#30118365

clevvermind:
ok. no problem. what i want to do is to read every comments here all over again and draw my conclusion on this issue.

Sure, of course
and like I previously said, now that it's on FP and after an awful lot has been said, let's know if you are any the wiser
meanwhile, I'll be here, sitting down crossed leg, dey await your version, your explanation(s)
and/or answer(s) to HOW did God harden Pharoah's heart?

BabaGnoni:
^^^
You have given a rhetoric and dismal WHY
I am sorry but I learned nothing, nothing new from it

Sure would be nice to know the HOW
(i.e. how did God harden Pharaoh's heart then clevvermind?)

PS: Now that it's on FP and after an awful lot has been said, let's know if you are any the wiser

clevvermind:
so you want to know how God hardens pharoah's heart?

^^^
You fell for it... and missed the veiled sarcasm
If I were you I'll stylishly wipe the smug 32 ivories grin off my face
because if you read my posts, they laboriously explained how God hardened Pharoah's heart

clevvermind:
u are only obfuscating the issue.
i have already quoted the scripture that gave the clue as to why God harden his heart. that was what i am explaining here.
i'm not clamouring for fp as you suppose but other people's view is needed here. thanks.

^^^
You have given a rhetoric and dismal WHY
I am sorry but I learned nothing, nothing new from it

Sure would be nice to know the HOW
(i.e. how did God harden Pharaoh's heart then clevvermind?)

PS: Now that it's on FP and after an awful lot has been said, let's know if you are any the wiser

https://s12.postimg.org/u0usrsl61/eleda.jpg
Yeepa! It made FP!!

clevvermind:
God wants to show his power in egypt
so that they would know that there is a God who is all powerful that is unknown to them than their magicians, witch, idols etc.
God always want to make himself known to such people that don't know him.
You know that some later believe in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite.
God doesn't do that to show off or boast his self-esteem.

Lalasticlala can help us move it to front page to get more views. This is an interesting topic.

Why not let's thoroughly deal with this "why do God Sometimes Hardens People's Heart?" seemingly confusing and difficult question,
before darting from magicians, witch, idols etc on to "some later believe in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite" etc.

In the same vein, you do know that it was, those some, who later "believed" in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite that instigated the Israelites to build and worship the golden calf

You're making a clarion call for FP. Making FP is overrated.
Brace yourself for a market place and not just more views when/if it hits FP

Pr0ton:
BabaGnoni.

Symbols
I don't believe those superstitions how will I be able to provide one
Ok. Storm and earthquake represent His anger
If you remember Mount Sinai, lightening and thunder represented his voice
I think I've provided what you need to continue the discussion...

Whether you believe or don't believe in symbols, you cant escape symbolisms in the Bible
Whether you like or dont like, the bible is full of symbolism, even life is full of it too...

You may recall the bible phrase "...land flowing with milk and honey..."
well milk is a symbol for prosperity and honey is a symbol for abundance
Milk, also is a symbol for the simple, baby or basic Word of God

You may recall another bible phrase "...Lion of Judah..."
well it's a symbol representing Jesus meaning satan is no match to Jesus returning back like a lion
(i.e. just like, no animal can match the King of the Jungle)

From the Parable of the Sower, seed, is used as a symbol for the word of God.

Water, among many of its other meanings, is a symbol for the voice of God or word of God too
- water softens the ground of the heart and prevent it from hardening
Water soothes, just like the voice of God or word of God which it symbolises does

Bible aside, symbolisms is part of everyday life
Take status symbols for an example, like using the Mercedes Benz key symbol holder to form stinkingly rich aristo big boy

clevvermind:
yea. God wants to show his power in Egypt.
but through someone who does not regard him like pharoah.
he wants to prove to all Egyptians that he is God and beside him, there is no other. he does whatever he says.

^^^
This is rhetoric explaining God off, has having "a low self esteem"
and bent on a mission of disgracing Pharoah and making a wanton public display of the Egyptians!

Pr0ton:
What should we do of the rest humans?
Since He knew he won't take them as children why make them run the risk of hell?
Why create them at all?

^^^
Not baulking at creating them at all, that Pr0ton, is the beauty of God respecting everything or everyones right of existence.
It simply is about God honouring creation right to existense
It is God fulfilling everyones right to life and God not violating that right by "aborting" anyone before they expire or time-out.
It comes down to, God restraining Himself inspite of foreknowing our choice (e.g. hardening hearts etcetera)
Selves may not intertwine, but lives do. Everyone has a right to life, and everyones right to live that life is part of God's master plan

clevvermind:
it seems Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before.

1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel:
‘Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.’ ”
2 And Pharaoh said,
“Who is the LORD, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the LORD, nor will I let Israel go.”
- Exodus 5:1-2.

pharoah wants to contest with God and God had to prove to him that he was far superior to him. no one contest with God.
satan tries it and he was cast out. Nebuchadnezzar tries it and he was turned to an animal for seven years.
Herod tries it and his body gone rotten and eaten by worms. etc.

Pr0ton:
If you as well read Exodus 4, the prior incident to the one you pointed out in Exodus 5,
you'll see that God had already said in verse 21 that He would harden Pharoah's heart.

And I love the way your loving God punishes people too.

clevvermind:
this is the reason why God hardens pharoah's heart.

17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh,
“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you,
and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
- Rom 9:17.

i don't think God punishes anyone unjustly though. one must have committed some sins.

clevvermind cant even make up his mind,
One minute it is "...Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before..."
then next it is "...this is the reason why God hardens pharoah's heart..."

He can try to oversimplify this as much as he wants,
meanwhile the truth and fact of the matter is, just like a kitchen sponge wants to harden up when there is no presence of water
so Pharaoh was, he was eager to harden his heart even upon hearing the voice of God or word of God, God obliged him,
and so God, in effect, hardened the King, Pharaoh's heart, when He, God, backed out and He withdrew His Hands off Pharaoh's heart

¹The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
²Every man's way is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts.
³To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the LORD more than sacrifice.…
- Proverbs 21:2 New American Standard Bible

Pr0ton:
When you hear his voice do not harden your heart.

Brilliant because I was just about saying:
If Mohammed Pr0ton won't go to the mountain Hebrews 3:15
then the mountain Hebrews 3:15 must come to Mohammed Pr0ton

As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
- Hebrews 3:15 ESV

Scripture says,
"If you hear God speak today, don't be stubborn.
Don't be stubborn like those who rebelled."
- Hebrews 3:15 GOD'S WORD® Translation

For future referencing, note down my underlinings in the above verses and/or different translations

Pr0ton:
It depends on which Bible.
Except you tell me what you are driving at, I might not answer this well.

This is no trick question, whether you answer well or not, doesnt matter
It is a gauge question for my benefit
Dont be shy to give your answers. All that's required is honesty and sincerity

So again, please indulge me and tell, what to your knowledge symbolises the voice of God OR word of God in the bible
(i.e. what symbolism(s) is used for the voice of God or word of God in the bible)
I'll set you off with some examples, the dove symbolises the Holy Spirit, Cloud symbolises the presence of God etcetera

Now, just throw all you have at me, I can take and handle it/them
What symbol(s) to your knowledge is used for the voice or word of God
Let's have your answer so we can move on to deal with your "Suffice to say, he hardned his heart before he sent Moses"

Pr0ton:
You didn't get it my point.
Suffice to say, he hardned his heart before he sent Moses.

Bro you made a moot point, and it's actually you who didn't get the point
We are talking of a God that knows the END from the BEGINNING
and in this case, nonetheless went along with the plan

Pr0ton:
But he created them. Why the difference?

BabaGnoni:
...The difference is as simple as, will you take ownership of what you didnt create, didnt or havent adopted?
- only a thief, a thief like in John 10:10, will do such

Pr0ton:
What are you saying
There are some humans God didn't create

Hiswordxray:
I can see you are finding it difficult to understand what children is.
Don't worry when you give birth to your own children you would understand the meaning of children.

^^^
Word up. True Hiswordxray, my good brother

^^^
Oh sorry, you actually just have

Pr0ton:
But he created them.
Why the difference?

You havent provided me your answers to my questions

The difference is as simple as, will you take ownership of what you didnt create, didnt or havent adopted?
- only a thief, a thief like in John 10:10, will do such

Pr0ton:
BabaGnoni

Whether "I have" or "I will" it was God doing the hardening. But wait... You mean there was a possibility that God might not harden Pharoah's heart even after saying "I will"? Not likely, because "tho heaven and earth pass away; my word will never pass away".

It is even more clear in Exd 9:12 that what God told Moses came true.

And I'm not claiming to have a better knowledge.
Let's just get things straight, not twisted

Before we move on Pr0ton, have you dust out your bible to read Hebrews 3:15 yet?
Also please dont play the selective forgetfulness card on this one
I requested:
Please indulge me and tell, what to your knowledge symbolises the voice of God OR word of God in the bible
(i.e. what symbolism(s) is used for the voice of God or word of God in the bible)

Should we be surprised at Exodus 9:12?
Anyone that agrees that God is Ominiscient, that God is Omni-all-knowing,
that God knows the end from the beginning wouldnt bat an eyelid at Exodus 9:12
PS: By the way, no one has a monopoly of knowledge except God. We are all learning Pr0ton

Pr0ton:
BabaGnoni.
Those analogies are false.
God never tried to pacify Pharoah. He intentionally made him hellbent.
Guess you need to reread Exd 7:3 very well.
God hardned his heart even before He sent Moses to him.
There was no prior fight which God was trying to save Pharoah from till he let him be (because he was hellbent).
No, God already left him before the fight started.

Ah-ha Pr0ton!, Why you wan fall for my hand nau?
Did you say: "He intentionally made him hellbent"?
And that: "God hardned his heart even before He sent Moses to him"?
Oh my bad. God must be a psychopath then. Tut-tut-tut

Pr0ton, what is the difference and/or distinction between WILL and HAVE?
- that is a starting block question

I didnt read "I HAVE HARDENED..." but read "I WILL HARDEN..."
Guess maybe it's actually you, who has to dust out his bible and needs to re-read Exodus 7:3 very well
whilst at it, then read Exodus 7:4, Exodus 7:13
and then particularly Hebrews 3:15 to get a clearer picture on the subject of heart hardening

You say the analogies/illustrations are false.
OK, please indulge me and tell, what to your knowledge symbolises the voice of God OR word of God in the bible
(i.e. what symbolism(s) is used for the voice of God or word of God in the bible)

Obi1kenobi:
You have plenty of points for articulacy and sheer inexhaustible willpower to extend an argument interminably forever but your logic does fall short as you can't overcome certain pre-conceptions. Predestination is a hard thing for believers to wrap their heads around. In my bible-believing, christian days, I held pretty much the exact views some of you are peddling spiced with all the cliches about free will and all that. But my bias in christian teachings about our human free will guided my arguments. I could basically twist very passage to suit that argument.

But the reality is that a dispassionate, irreligious view of the Bible's teachings about predestination and foreknowledge shows that the Bible ties itself up in inextricable knots about this subject. It basically contradicts itself with different messages on the subject depending on which view one is arguing from.

I still don't see how a rational argument can be made that despite an omniscient God knowing everything about us and our destiny before our birth, we still have capability to bend destiny to our will.
That's some serious logical gymnastics.

Where on this thread have you read a remark saying "...we have the capability to bend destiny to our will"

Obi1kenobi:
It doesn't matter if I woke up tomorrow morning and deliberately swallowed poison and died.
The same God that foresaw events at the very end of time as we know it must still have foreseen the tragic destiny for me. It doesn't matter what I do.
He'd still have foreseen it happening.

First correcting your remark in blue above which repeated in the quotes below:
"...God that foresaw events at the very end of time as we know it must still have foreseen the tragic destiny for me"

God sees events' end from the beginning, and not "God that foresaw events at the very end of time"
Its like seeing the beginning, the end and all thats in between at once. All three, together seen, at the same time, in a flash as it were.
This isnt nitpicking but God forseeing ends from their beginnings is monumental different to "God foreseeing events at the very end of time"

It does matter bro, because that is the beauty of God respecting ones right of existence.
It simply is about God honouring ones right to life and God not violating that right by "aborting" before one's time.
Comes down to, God restraining Himself inspite of foreknowing that choice (i.e. the suicidal choice "tomorrow'')
Selves may not intertwine, but lives do. Everyone has a right to life, and everyones right to live that life is part of the master plan

Obi1kenobi:
Which almost makes life somewhat pointless as far as the salvation race is concerned

One interesting thing about new found belief/disbelief is how radically your views change on every topic imaginable once you take the step to the other side of the belief. It's like a disturbed stone that starts an avalanche and everything comes toppling over.
If you became an atheist tomorrow and you looked back on this subject, you'd find your current views somewhat ridiculous.

Also every one is partaking in one race or the other.
If it isnt the salvation race, it might be the rat race
Out of the two, the race which makes life somewhat pointless and vanity upon vanity, is obvious and glaringly recognisable.

Tallesty1:
It is better we stop this because I don't want to sound like an unbeliever,
whats the sense in hardening some's heart and then punish him and his people for disobedient?

A mind that is afraid withers away; it cannot function properly.
- JIDDU KRISHNAMURTI, On Fear

If you would make your mind strong, you must give it strong food.
- REUEN THOMAS, Thoughts for the Thoughtful

Better we stop? Why?
- especially, when you are making enquiries and asking bona fide questions whilst at it

Pharaoh was a willing participant,
Pharaoh was raring to go bad.
God didn't like that, and so God was holding Pharaoh back nevertheless God eventually obliged him
and made do of the circumstances or made the best of it

Pharaoh was willing and eager to "fight". Yes? No?
But God stepped in holding Pharaoh's heart back from turning hard. Yes? No?
God eventually stepped back and respected Pharaoh's free will to go "fighting"
and his stubbornness to hardening up his soft heart. Yes? No?
God allowed Pharaoh to harden up his heart and this paved way for Pharaoh to "fight". Yes? No?

God was pouring fluid on Pharaoh's heart which kept it from hardening. Yes? No?
- just like one does in keeping a kitchen sponge wet or dripping by pouring water on it
Stop the flow on the sponge or Pharaoh's heart, what will happen?

When God hands off one, then He allows the heart of whose He has taken His hands off, to harden up

We serve a just God and as God, He is free to act in any way He chooses
When one puts stuff in the kitchen dustbin, is that punishment or a judgement?
If I may ask, what was the "punishment"?
because when all is said and done, we all, are sometime, some day going to die anyway

adexsimply:
Nope, on the contrary, when you step back and allow kid B to fight, you're allowing him to choose(frrewill)

Which part or what's contradictory in the post?
Pharaoh was willing and eager to "fight". Yes? No?
But God stepped in holding Pharaoh's heart back from turning hard. Yes? No?
God eventually stepped back and respected Pharaoh's free will to go "fighting"
and his stubbornness to hardening up his soft heart. Yes? No?
God allowed Pharaoh to harden up his heart and this paved way for Pharaoh to "fight". Yes? No?

God was pouring fluid on Pharaoh's heart which kept it from hardening. Yes? No?
- just like one does in keeping a kitchen sponge wet or dripping by pouring water on it
Stop the flow on the sponge or Pharaoh's heart, what will happen?

clevvermind:
let all the bible scholars come around to discuss this.
i need answers to this question?

look at those verses of scriptures.

3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.
4 But Pharaoh will not heed you, so that I may lay My hand on Egypt and bring My armies and My people, the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them.”
- Exodus 7:3-5.

4 Then I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will pursue them; and I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all his army,
that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD.” And they did so.
5 Now it was told the king of Egypt that the people had fled, and the heart of Pharaoh and his servants was turned against the people;
and they said, “Why have we done this, that we have let Israel go from serving us?”
6 So he made ready his chariot and took his people with him.
7 Also, he took six hundred choice chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt with captains over every one of them.
8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the children of Israel; and the children of Israel went out with boldness.
- Exodus 14:4-8.

20 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them,
and that they might receive no mercy, but that He might destroy them, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
- Joshua 11:20.

17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh,
“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Romans 9:17-18.

clevvermind:
it seems so. Pharaoh's heart was programmed in a particular way.
so everything he was doing was based on how he was programmed.
anyway, i would like to get other people's views about this as well.

- EXCERPT -

oic again, as I thought you did know...

It is very similar to what happened to Pharaoh.
Both minds have already been made up
there is no point wasting time and effort on either anymore,
as they both were hellbent (i.e. both were determined to achieve at all costs what they've set their minds on to do)

The answers lie in the following verses:

But I will make Pharaoh's heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
- Exodus 7:3 NLT

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and just as the LORD had predicted to Moses, Pharaoh refused to listen.
- Exodus 9:12 NLT

²³He replied, “One of you who has just eaten from this bowl with me will betray me.
²⁴For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.
It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!”
²⁵Judas, the one who would betray him, also asked, “Rabbi, am I the one?”
And Jesus told him, “You have said it.”
- Matthew 26:23-25 NLT

When Judas had eaten the bread, Satan entered into him.
Then Jesus told him,
"Hurry and do what you're going to do."
- John 13:27 NLT

Judas like Pharaoh, can be compared with wet sponges...
Wet sponges that want to dry out the water keeping them wet, which eventually ends to getting hardened up
but are kept from drying up and hardening
by God keeping them wet through continually pouring water on the sponges
The moment God cuts off the stream of water pouring on them,
the sponges in a matter of time will dry out, harden up and be brittle

Have you ever tried pottery,
where you put the clay on the pottery wheel to make a vase
The clump of clay is always resisting you shaping it into the vase
The clump of clay will fall off the pottery wheel unfinished and damaged, the moment you let go your hands in molding it
Keep your hands on it until the end, you'll have a beautiful vase

Another analogy, is this:
Kid A and kid B, are sizing each other up, breathing into each one's face, each raring for a fight
Right at the nick of time, you step in to prevent the fight starting
but kid B, will not have none of that as adrenalin and testosterone is pumping high
Kid B is spoiling for the fight, despite all appeal or effort to prevent it
Everyone knows kid B is no match for Kid A, as kid A will beat the living day lights out of kid B
but kid B does NOT agree nor wants to know (i.e. kid B is hellbent, determined to fight at all costs, not matter what)
In effect, kid B's heart is hardening for/to fight
You harden kid B's heart, the moment you step back and allow kid B to have the fight, he's so much set his heart on

That's how Pharaoh's heart got hardened (i.e. the restraining, like in the case of kid B, was let off)
and similar happened to Judas, he was let go (i.e. as he was a lost cause, who couldn't be changed for the better)

https://www.nairaland.com/1820451/judas-iscariot-really-villain#24836472

- /EXCERPT-

Nothing to do with Pharaoh been programmed at all...
Pharaoh was a willing participant,
Pharaoh was raring to go bad.
God didn't like that, and so God was holding Pharaoh back nevertheless God eventually obliged him
and made do of the circumstances or made the best of it

PS: When God hands off one, then He allows the heart of whose He has taken His hands off to harden

esere826:
I don't agree with the thought, but i won't be quick to call him a heretic

I have some issues with scriptures, which I am still trying to understand/unravel (God helping)
the answers of yesterday are no longer suitable for today.

There is something interesting about IT.
You can use some IT technologies such as codes and GUI's to build wonderful solutions
The smarter and more experienced you are, the easier it is for you to build and unravel complex IT solutions
In all of this, you follow some rules set up by those that developed the codes
the original developers might say something like this:
If the user writes https://s15.postimg.org/ck2czbv0n/bold.jpg, then make any text between it bold

So you are happy that you are able to figure out the secondary working of the code,
but it gets to a point that you say wait a minute. Why was https://s15.postimg.org/ck2czbv0n/bold.jpg defined as bold?

Now, the scripture talks a lot about blood.
Based on its talk about blood we like IT geniuses can decode that when a special blood is spilled once and for all
it pays the ultimate price without any need for other blood sacrifices.

But then, you take a step back and say wait a minute
why is blood needed in the first place

Some Bible genius might jump out saying:
"without shedding of blood, there is no remission" and that "life is in the blood".

You say, "yeah, i get that alright, but why is blood needed?"
"Could God not have instituted something else as a sin taker?"

When you start asking such questions and get answers, I think you inch your way past the outside courtyard inter greater understanding

^^^
ROTBL. My sentiments precisely
- that is exactly how I feel and more

I disagree with the allusion that "the answers of yesterday are no longer suitable for today"
- It will be suitable or no longer suitable depending on what rung of the ladder the foot is on

esere826, here are some other scenarios...

What happens to you creating word document when/if your Microsoft word normal.dot file is corrupt and/or damaged?
What is a normal.dot file?
What is the significance and/or importance of the normal.dot file in the context of Microsoft Word document and/or document creation?
How does it affect word documents you create using the Microsoft word software/applucation?

Back to your HTML illustration with the bit of "reverse engineering" or ethical code hacking you were alluding to:
What happens if you click on a point/position on a Nairaland page that Seun had not coded for?
Like clicking at a wrong place/position/point on a nairaland page (i.e. at somewhere Seun has not coded for, somewhere with no HTML tags etcetera)
Seun used to code Nairaland with PHP, Javascript, CSS etcetera for its displays, dynamic interactivity etc before he switched to custom scripting

The point is the Ultimate Developer, too, used certain scripting/coding language that follows certain rules and protocols
We get response(s) when we activate an event coded for, which then triggers off an event handler or a method to perform the intended action the developer coded in

https://s30.postimg.org/rf6j0fs1t/holy_Of_Holies.jpg
True, I liked your "...I think you inch your way past the outside courtyard into inter greater understanding...",
It's just like moving from the outer court, inching way into the Holy of Holies
(i.e. into the presence of God, searching the heart and/or mind of God by leaning on Jesus' bosom)

God has rules, protocols etcetera He laid down, which He too, follows and abides to.
If He didn't, if not, then all will be chaotic, be without order, go haywire etcetera
To say the least, as an example, Mr A will be calling for a miracle here, and Mr B at the other end of the earth will be overriding the same miracle Mr A initiated or requested for

-EXCERPT 1-

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science, He was talking in general
and every thing is bound by rules with regulations or principles behind them
Limbs, reattaching limbs, growing limbs are no exception

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/10#25250431

-/EXCERPT 1-

-EXCERPT 2-

Of course, who wouldnt want their children to surpass or excel more than they did, and it is happening, only that people are expectant and looking for all, some or certain miracles in wrong places

As always, some miracles will be at pulpit (e.g. cancer healed, liver regrow, headache gone etc), other miracles (e.g. reattach limbs, regrow body parts etc) will happen legitimately elsewhere (e.g. medically etc)
- the thing is everything is bounded by rules. God can bypass the rule, He is allowed but we have to wrought out miracles within the confines of the rules

Perform these miracles according to the rules, else, whatever miracles are wrought will be as demonic Pharaoh's wise men snakes

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/25#27181149

-/EXCERPT 2-

On the issue of the the blood, the necessity of the blood AND PARTICULARLY about "the life of the FLESH is in the blood" (i.e. Leviticus 17:11), this rings true when we understand and get to know about blood pressure, how blood flows through the body to make and/or keep the flesh alive.

The heart pumps the blood but the collisions of the positive and negative ions or charges in the blood (i.e. their bumping into each other) also causes blood to flow through out the body.

The "life of the flesh is in the blood" is truly and well said by God

The blood contains the DNA code hence "without shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin"

esere826 you are no doubt, to some degree IT literate and familiar with coding, so wouldnt have issues comprehending what DNA will entail
- it encodes the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms

Previously known boundaries have been pushed, from a tiny speck of blood, it is now possible to build the physical profile of someone
(i.e. tell the colour, height and even age of that someone from a speck of blood)

Psalm 139:14 and Psalm 104:24 speaks volumes.
It isnt beans when David, agreed and blurted out that:
"I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well".

Side note:
Look after the blood, the blood will reciprocate and depending on the instructions written in it, let one live long.
It might even do an Abel's-blood-crying-out-to-heavens on ones behalf,
but this is unnecessary, as the blood of shared or shed the cross now does that for the benefit of all

All those pre-sharing of blood, no sorry, I meant pre shedding, were temporary covering up.
The ultimate shedding on the cross is like fixing the hinted corrupted/damaged normal.dot file mentioned above

There is more to simply "... Could God not have instituted something else as a sin taker?"
It is not about "...sin taker or sin taking"

Let's recognise that, sin, as well as death, existed before man's himself sinned
Sin, as well as death were both pre-existing
It was after sin entered man's world when man fell from grace & glory, that death crept in, following closely behind with corruption & degeneration setting in.

Blood is an excellent source of human DNA (i.e. the blueprint for life)
It is the biological instructions and genetic information in DNA which passes default settings from adult organisms to their offspring during reproduction

Unfortunately nothing else except for blood has the good curriculum vitae which fits the bill
or nothing else is more suitable than blood for fixing and addressing this particular thing SIN

vooks:
Hell was running out of patience

^^^
... hell and Cerberus (Kerberos) couldn't wait any longer, the former in particular, to let the real flogging begin

Hell, the greek mythology, actually held its peace until after the King intervened to halt the blogger's public flogging
The King, before he changed residence, had at least, the sense, to refer the blogger's case to the supreme court amid international clamour over the blogger's sentence to 1,000 whip lashes for criticising leading clerics.

9jatatafo:
Not surprised.
Go and watch the movie Heap of Faith and you will understand the gimmicks of these miracle makers.

Leap of Faith brother and not "Heap of Faith"
- Leap of Faith starring the comic, Steve Martin
Naija hasnt gone that high tech yet like in Leap of Faith or Peter Popoff been fed with information via a hidden earpiece

shdemidemi:
There is no attribute of God which self-righteousness does not impugn.
Self-righteousness arises partly from pride, but mainly from ignorance of God’s Word.
Ever since man became a sinner he has been self-righteous.
When he had a righteousness of his own he never gloried of it,
but ever since he has lost it, he has pretended to be the possessor of it
– Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

^^^
Apostasy has been around a long time.
It is a spiritual tragedy with a first occurrence in Eden

In Eden, before the fall, Adam had a bona fide righteousness of his own and a glorified body void of degeneration
but just as it happened to Adam in Eden, departure(s) from the faith (i.e. apostasy), does occur too, among the righteous (i.e. saints)

The apostasy referred to in Matt 24:9-10, however, is hardcore apostasy (i.e. it's apostasy stemmed out of fear, fear which is on steroids)
This kind of apostasy will be associated with turning away from the faith, arising out of persecution and from fear of been put to death for ones faith

lalasticlala:
Rev. Chris Oyakhilome’s first daughter, Sharon posted this photo of herself without weave on twitter.
That's her natural thick, long hair you are seeing.
She captioned it “Twitpic a selfie without weave”.

^^^
https://s2.postimg.org/y4uzm7c5h/narcisi.jpg
^{How to Spot a Narcissist}

Hiswordxray:
Peter and James spread the wrong Gospel and Jesus also what them to take this wrong Gospel to the gentiles?
Wow! your version of Jesus is wicked, thank God that Paul came to fix Jesus failure.

Hiswordxray, ah-ha, spare the sarcasm, the bolds in Acts 1:8 and Acts 11:9 are instructive enough and self-explanatory

Besides, as earlier mentioned, the gospel is the same. The gospel never changed
The message, the recipients of the message, the timing of the message etcetera are all progressive

God is not the author of confusion. Jesus is not contradicting himself. Jesus is NOT wanting any to take "this wrong Gospel" to the gentiles but to take the SAME gospel to the ends of the earth (i.e. reaching the gentiles)

Peter & Co was shuffling feet and dilly dallying, so Jesus had to engage Paul.

Peter even admitted having difficulties understanding or comprehending Paul or his mandate
- no surprises there, no wonder the work was relieved off and given to Paul

In fairness to Peter, he did comply with Cornelius and others though

Bro, you definitely recall Peter saying in 2 Peter 3:16 that some of Paul's teachings are sometimes difficult to swallow or stomach

¹⁵And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved.
This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
¹⁶speaking of these things in all of his letters.
Some of his comments are hard to understand,
and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different,
just as they do with other parts of Scripture.
And this will result in their destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16 NLT

shdemidemi:
You won't let this slide BabaG..ok

shdemidemi, you know what you're doing...
you know you're standing in the way and blocking me.
You are making sure your obstruction is air-tight
and making sure that you arent giving up any inch, space or room for me to manoeuvre into

shdemidemi:
I think our different meanings behind the word 'faith' is where the issue is.

On the contrary, our meanings behind the word 'faith' do not differ,
our meanings behind the word 'faith' are the same
I only enchanced our meanings behind the word 'faith', enhanced what we both agree on
The enhancement is what you've pretended or played blind to, conveniently refused to mentioned it or acknowledge it

shdemidemi:
I have faith in God.. This means I trust God.

If I go against God's instruction out of my volition, this in no way mean I have lost faith/trust in God.

I have only disobeyed the God I trust.

You will agree with me that if 'disobedience' is to replace loss of faith, you and I probably lose our faith daily.

The sort of disobedience that equals that of Adam today is when we refuse to accept Christ.

An example of this is why israel is suffering spiritual blindness at the minute

Romans 10:21
21 But regarding Israel, God said,

“All day long I opened my arms to them,
but they were disobedient and rebellious.

The sort of disobedience that made God cut off his own begotten people.
They have faith in God but they lack wisdom, and they became disobedient to God by rejecting His son

I never suggested that 'disobedience' is to replace loss of faith,
I wrote was "departing from what he knew"
The departure preceded 'disobedience' (i.e. rejecting His word)
He lost the trust in God after the 'disobedience'
Or did he not lose the trust of God?
- God put measures in place and made sure he didnt hang around the neighbourhood after that

You brought Israel on into this so I've tried to use a bit from some of the parallels it shares with Adam

CANTICLES:
Act 17:31 reveal that Jehovah God Almighty, the God and Father of Christ is d person who plans to judge mankind .

His majesty has appointed Jesus Christ his son to overseer the whole work of judgement . So Jesus will be the one to carry out the WILL OF HIS FATHER

After this, Jesus Christ wil report back to His Almighty God And Father

"NEXT, he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power" 1 cor 15:24

As simple as that? Thank you

BabaGnoni:
so what is the faith Adam did not depart from then bro?
What exactly is/was this faith?. Hmm?
Also apart from God earlier guaranteeing so, Adam eating the fruit or Adam disobeying God, why did Adam die?

shdemidemi:
The only faith you can associate with Adam is that he heard from God and he believed what he heard.

Adam died because he disobeyed. He acted against what he knew.

I said "... apart from God earlier guaranteeing so, Adam eating the fruit or Adam disobeying God, why did Adam die? "
Why do you have to parrot in "Adam died because he disobeyed" after the hint not to?
We all know that much, anyway it doesnt matter. You've repeated it, no point crying over split milk

This by the minute is becoming interestingly more.

So when you say "...He acted against what he knew..." that in essence means he departed from the faith
He ultimately and effectively lost the faith in disobeying (i.e. departing from what he knew)

He died as a result of losing that faith out of disobedience (i.e. stemmed out of departing from what he knew)

^^^
Dont forget responding