₦airaland Forum

GooseBaba:
Common na.... Stop playing gibiti for jesus..

For the scriptures says..!!! Now show me where deutoronomy 25:4 was literally mentioned, or biblical quoted in timothy 5:18.

Just as you are referencing this verses, show me where they referenced it.

Let me remind you "no where in the bible did a character in the bible QUOTE SCRIPTURES FROM THE BIBLE"... I didn't say preach scriptures.
I said QUOTE SCRIPTUREs from the BIBLE " you cannot challenge my statement by ignoring the stance of my statement..

SMH. You arent having half a laugh

By the way, it is "jibiti" and not "gibiti"

Beginning to think you could be color blind, especially if it's blue

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman

Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

Genesis 21:2 For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him

---

OK, maybe Paul is not doing it for you, lets switch from Paul to Jesus then.

Gorge yourself on these, dont break a leg

---

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"

Deuteronomy 6:16 "You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah."

---

Matthew 4:10 "Then Jesus said to him, 'Away with you, Satan! For it is written,
"You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

Deuteronomy 6:13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name

---

Matthew 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?'"

Psalm 118:22-23 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing; it is marvelous in our eyes.

GooseBaba:
No sir..!! Why should I move the goal post when you have no ball to score with in the first place.
Just as you've "literally" quoted Romans 2.11 and chronicles 19.7.. Kindly show me where jesus or Paul did the same..

If you don't have anything evidence of such, kindly tender your apology and I will literally forgive your initial gra gra.. Goosebaba chapter 3:4..

Now we are doing an Oliver Twist.
Issorite. Continue...

I wonder who was speaking in Romans 2.11 but any way, your "Oliver Twist" more wish is my command
- the same person who spoke in Romans 2.11 is doing same in 1 Timothy 5:18 where he is quoting Deuteronomy 25:4

1 Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer Is worthy of his reward.

Deuteronomy 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Maybe when you start laying the golden egg(s), I might give in and concede to kindly tendering you an unmerited apology

GooseBaba:
And the Maradona continues.....

Show me where jesus or fraud.. Sorry Paul literally quote scriptures and the exact verse from the OT..
Show me where Paul the greatness fraudster quoted any of the 66 books.. FACT.. Not preaching..

It isnt hard, it is easy peasy lemon squeezy, only I didnt want to encourage you or let you indulge yourself, on my time/account, that easily

Oh, I see, we have moved the goal post, have we.

Even stretched it from "Nowhere in the bible did a character in the bible quote scriptures from the bible"
to now "literally quote scriptures and the exact verse from the OT... quoted any of the 66 books.. FACT.. Not preaching..."

OK, nothing spoilt, how about this to gnaw on
Why not start with one of Paul's, whom you've derided

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God

2 Chronicles 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it:
for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts

GooseBaba:
Smh..... I say bring prove to thwart my statement. And you start this merry go round.

You have quoted scriptures before back..?
It shouldn't be that hard to show me where a character in the bible quoted scriptures /verses from the bible...

Bros, abeg I. Take pounded yam with efo riro take beg you...
Prove me wrong... As a matter of fact, we learn everyday.
Kindly teach me something new..

You sire, are a man of many hidden talents
- First you were a time-keeper, now you are sneering comic

The "pounded yam with efo riro" sold it and for that, I'll make it, two characters instead of a one you asked for

#1) Jesus, the central character in the bible quoted scriptures from the OT
#2) Paul, a major character, in the bible, quoted scriptures from the OT

GooseBaba:
It took you over an hour to come up with this reply...

Either you prove me wrong, or you apologize for your initial gra gra...

"O ti ooo, na for Nairaland, I for dey, come stand dey market, erh?"

You sure are in need of a leaf from James 1:19

I dont do gra gra, gra gra is not in my style

Whats to prove you wrong on?
- you've already stepped right in it,
Turn it into "rough" and gra-gra your way out of "Nowhere in the bible did a character in the bible quote scriptures from the bible"

GooseBaba:
Prove me wrong..!

^^^
Oh puleeze GooseBaba, give it a rest!
- dont you start playing the dare or ignorance card on this one

GooseBaba:
It's quite amusing when abrahamics gods worshippers proclaim the bible as the absolute word of God.

But with that same breath agree that certain things in the bible are inconsistent or contradictory.

If there are glaring errors in the book, then the word loses its value and it's no longer absolute truth.
since No room for amendments "revelation tells you what will happen when one adds or subtracts" what is left..?
Wholehearted delusion in the name of spiritual understanding and Spookism..

Remixing what Christianity is and what it's not in order to deliberately delude themselves.
because they are emotionally attached to a story book..

Nowhere in the bible did a character in the bible quote scriptures from the bible...
And the bible is suppose to be what again..!?

Do you want to recant and/or retract the bold?
Or you rather edit or modify the gaffe?

Image123:
Season's greetings to you too.
You still decided to divide us based on this your open secret criteria.
More grace i pray.

^^^
https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Jokester... nothing gets past Image123 because of the halo hanging over his head

2014 was a roller coaster of a year but God had our backs
- is it of the disease that stalks in darkness
or the calamity that destroys at noon
though a thousand fell at our side,
though ten thousand died around us,
these evils did not touch us

I wish the below list including others I missed out on, a very good and well deserving 2014 December festive period
and also wish each a Fulfilling & Prosperous 2015 New Year in advance

Mynd44, christemmbassey, Gombs, Tgirl4real, MarkMiwerds, nlmediator, Sarassin, nora544, alexleo, RedReact, Alwaystrue, UyiIredia, Bidam, aletheia, striktlymi, rationalmind, PastorOluT, Ubenedictus, HFOG, ApostlePat, Weah96, Reyginus, FOLYKAZE, AlfaSeltzer or AlfaSelltzer, loveroftruth, omonuan, spyglaxx, Image123, Lobeez, maestroferddi, WinsomeX, mbaemeka

ihedinobi2, FortresOfChrist, petres007, shdemidemi, pickabeau1, trustman, Seun, sammied, SisterMe, Yooguyz, GooseBaba, PastorKun, SirJohn, MrAnony1, feedthenation, Candour, truthislight, lepasharon, OLAADEGBU, vooks, nannymcphee, therealMcCain, LordReed or Lord_Reed, sukkot, Goshen360, nuwell, nymphomaniac, FlourishG, Ymodulus, Joagbaje, frosbel, DrummaBoy, PastorAIO,

frosbel:
The only difference between me and you for now is the Virgin Birth.

We both agree on :

- Tithe
- Trinity
- Hell
- Possibly others like church, rapture etc.

We disagree on the Virgin Birth, We are still learning.

If these things which were taught to us were found to be false then what are the chances that the other things taught to us by the same institutional Christianity are true?

frosbel x3
frosbel I am holding tightly, dont fall from hand ooo

Just because dirty bath water was used doesnt mean the baby is dirty

"ti ọmọde ba nse bi ọmọde, agba a ma se bi agba" literally means "There is a difference between boys and men"

When one transitions from being a child of God to been a son of God (i.e. when one comes off age) these things become shown and known to one

Yes, "church" too was in my etcetera.
"Church" isnt church, we know that much too

- Tithe;
is outdated, gone passed its "Best before date", it does neccesarily need to be given but hey if determined nothing stops anyone doing so

- Trinity;
The word "Trinity" is not in the bible, a few word additions were added to the original text (i.e. 1 John 5:7) to make a doctrine of it
There are three known persons in the Godhead.
Question: Did Abraham know God as God the Father?
So why limit a powerful omnipotent God to three persons then.
Why delimit God to three persons? He could be more. No? Yes?

- Hell;
As earlier said, there is Sheol, there is Gehenna, there is the Lake of fire but hell and hades are Greek inventions, mythology and religious imports

- Possibly others like church, rapture etc
"church" as we know today is not the church (i.e. ekklesia) of/in the bible
More details at https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/2#25506104

Rapture is another misinterpreted text/passage

Marriage is an institution not Christianity
Christianity has to do with relationships and not religion
It is because of the relationship we have with God the Father that one gets to know via the Spirit of Truth where all these things which were taught to us are wanting and found to be false

Dont make the "Virgin Birth" a stumbling block for you
The word of God is Omnipotent and not impotent
God who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist
- Please frosbel, do not render the word of God impotent

You actually need more grace and more of Psalm 119:105
- "Your word is a lamp to guide my feet and a light for my path"

frosbel:
Good my dear friend, you will soon be with me.

Now start an honest investigation into the virgin birth and add that to your list, after all that's how I began, Tithe, then Hell, then Trinity and now Virgin Birth.

It's like a pack of cards, once one falls, the rest follow in sequence and at different time intervals.

YOYO - you're on your own bro,

no let blood stain me ooo

Remember I mentioned the below before to you:

...all this that you are swimming. Chai diaris godu ooo

Listen frosbel, "Moti wẹ okun, mo ti wẹ ọsa" literaly means "I've swam the Atlantic Ocean, I swam the Lagoon"
so besides my earlier gesticulation to you with Fela "Abami Eda" Anikulapo Kuti's - Teacher Don't Teach Me Nonsense
please don't try to teach me, your Grandma to suck eggs

"Mo ti wẹ. Mo ti ja kọnkọ" literally meaning "I don bath, I don scrub myself with shaka-shaka sponge" so there is nothing on me
- I have no excess baggage, no contrabands, my hands are in the air, holding up to the heavens

This happened many years ago, and I am still standing with my faith not waning but waxing stronger and stronger
He don tay, wey we don dey at this thing, this Father's business nau, so one knows most of the ins and outs
- been there, done all, even bought and have the t-shirts on tithes, virgin birth, trinity, rapture, staged healing etcetera

It is you, who needs to be careful and watch your steps, watch what you are treading on or upon

frosbel:
^^

You call Hell - Greek Mythology and Trinity quite plainly false.
Well 80% of Christians will call you a heretic and rightly so from an orthodox perspective.

You mean for knowing about the additions to the original text of 1 John 5:7?

You mean for knowing that Sheol is what is in the original Hebrew text
and that Hades or hell was the Greek substitution for Sheol?

Hades incidentally was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.
The god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is what Sheol is or means

Hell is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Hell actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, hades

Gehenna is a valley in Jerusalem used for dumping refuse and was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire

Called a heretic, without God asking to have His breath back, is not the end of life, my friend frosbel.
- Matthew 10:16 is a watchword

frosbel:
What !!!!

You are a heretic for not believing in the trinity and hell fire , lmao

Babel ( confusion ) no go kill me ooooo

Hold on to your knickers frosbel, get a grip of yourself man

I can live with been called a heretic, its not the first time and wouldnt be the last
- my other middle names are freethinker or maverick

For God is not the author of confusion, neither am I.
- I know its a festive period but go easy on the "Akpeteshie" or "Paraga"

Read the post again, this time read it slowly but loudly

frosbel you are correct on the "trinity" addition and the "hell" fire manipulation but this isnt the thread to do justice on them
- long story short, the former is delimiting God to 3 persons, the latter is Greek mythology
(i.e. the Israelites/Jews have no concept of hell, hell is a Greek invention and should never be misconstrued as the Lake of fire)

frosbel:
I want to correct some charges that have been brought against me by many religious people on this forum, suggesting that I am an atheist for debunking their myths and contradictions.

I am not an Atheist.

Of course there is God but I am sincerely beginning to doubt that he is the God of the Christian religion.

I have found out that almost 80% of what I learnt as a Christian is either an outright lie, a frabication or a heavy dose of scripture twisting.

Most of you know how fanatical I was a few years ago, fighting for the trinity, hell fire, Virgin birth etc.
Well ever since I embarked on a crash course in bible history, it is only God who has prevented my faith from crashing.

No one who reads the truth will deny that there are fundamental issues with a lot of bible stories and scripture. To suggest otherwise makes one a liar and participant in the misrepresentation of God's truth.

I agree with the overall message of the bible (for there are many truths therein), but I cannot agree that it is word of a God when taken as a whole.
This is just plain fallacy.
Yes, God through his Spirit speaks to us and agrees with the truths he has revealed without which almost everything will become suspect.

I am still learning and now reading a book titled 'The Authentic Gospel of Jesus' by late Geza Vermes, Professor Emeritus of Jewish studies at Oxford university. He was a former catholic priest.
I am also an avid reader of articles by Bart Ehrmn Professor of Religious studies at the University of North Carolina. Bart was a former Evangelical Pastor.

What I have discovered is shocking and not for the faint hearted.

To be honest , I don't know where my quest and thirst for more knowledge will take me, sometimes I am scared, but this search will continue and my results will be shared wth you my good friends and of course enemies on this forum .

In summary , I am not an atheist and can never be one , not in this life or the next.

I am now an unfundamental thinking believer of Yeshua or Jesus

McSterling:
Chief, I like the way you're taking it slowly.
Don't say you can never be an atheist.
Even Barth D. Ehrman first became a liberal Christian before becoming an agnostic.
There's no way one can study biblical history and remain a fundamentalist, except that person is most uppity and ignorantly inveterate.
Keep searching and be sure to share your findings with us.

frosbel actually started as a Christian fundamentalist or in short a Fundamentalist, which is not bad at all (i.e. it's safe)

The thing is, right now, he is swimming in waters without a life jacket on
He doing the "Why did frosbel the chicken cross the Road" highway classic

https://s22.postimg.org/52gkey29d/chicken2.jpg

frosbel is on a very slippery slope, a slope with no hand rails, to hold on to, for if/when he slips.
With no hand railing, if/when he does slip, he will be spiralling into a dark & murky bottomless pit

The fact is, he, frosbel is leaving the safe haven of Christian fundamentalism
and is a tenny weeny bit short of fully transitioning to become a Liberal Christian
- He already is showing almost all the markings of a Liberal Christian
(i.e. he hasnt completely or fully developed into a Liberal Christian yet)

Potentially, his next phase after becoming a fully fledged Liberal Christian will be Agnosticism

I agree with him (i.e. frosbel) that he will never become an ATHEIST and can never be one, not in this life or the next
- This is because even if HE, frosbel, turns later to neither believing nor disbelieving in the existence of God
(i.e. unable to make up his mind on the existence of God)
he will stay in the closet and hold on DEFIANTLY/STRONGLY to that inveterate habit of God does exist,
this, all to keep or retain the last shred of his sanity or sound mental health left

McSterling, nothing to do with "uppity", nor anything to do with been "ignorantly inveterate"
afterall, it is Proverbs 25:7 that says "It is the glory of God to hide things but the glory of kings to investigate them"
when Proverbs 25:7 is rightly sought and/or applied then one turns into a fundamentalist, and remains a genuine one.

Where is your heart after exodus? Is it still in Egypt? If not, then a piece of advice frosbel, dont let it yearn or go back to Egypt.

But Jesus told him,
"Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God."
- Luke 9:62 NLT

PS: frosbel you are correct on the "trinity" addition and the "hell" fire manipulation but this isnt the thread to do justice on them
- long story short, the former is delimiting God, the latter is Greek mythology
(i.e. the Israelites/Jews have no concept of hell, hell is a Greek invention and should never be misconstrued as the Lake of fire)

JUBILEE2000:
If a young woman or a maiden (as u claim) conceives n gives birth, what makes it a sign?
It is no longer a sign but a normal occurrence but if a young woman conceives and gives birth without meeting a man that to me makes it a sign. We cannot understand the mysteries of the scriptures without the help of the Holy Spirit...may God help us

^^^
You dont understand, frosbel thinks a hymen reconstruction surgery took place after the birth of Shear-Jashub
(i.e. before the birth of Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz)
This is apart from the obvious truth & fact that Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz which is in Chapter 8, has no mention or place in this particular prophecy
- separate prophecies, separate times of giving etcetera

"And I draw near unto the prophetess, and she conceiveth, and beareth a son;
and Jehovah saith unto me, 'Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz, ..."
- Isaiah 8:3

PS: I cant wait to read frosbel's "wuru-wuru to the answer" with Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz
and witness the turning of the proverbial embarrassment table

frosbel:
But let me give you some homework.

Go and figure out who this child of promise was ; Isaiah's son, Shear-Jashub or Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz just to avoid further embarrassment after I post my next rebuttal.

^^^
OK frosbel, I did promise to follow up on this thread and possibly do so during the festive break, which is why this and why I am now here.
Also so that you can't say or wouldn't be able to say "I dey work oo"
You shouldn't/wouldnt have any excuse not to face this thread squarely and iron it out once and for all

Now, all this that you are swimming. Chai diaris godu ooo

Listen frosbel, "Moti we okun, mo ti we osa" literaly means "I've swam the Atlantic Ocean, I swam the Lagoon"
so besides my earlier gesticulation to you with Fela "Abami Eda" Anikulapo Kuti's - Teacher Don't Teach Me Nonsense
please don't try to teach me, your Grandma to suck eggs

In fact, I suffer ITK - I Too Know or OTTs - Over The Top gladly,
which is why I am repeating a few things I earlier said that went over your head or that you selectively unacknowledged/deliberately ignored

The questions posed to you (e.g. Why was Isaiah asked to bring the boy Shear-Jashub along to the "meeting" etc) too came back unanswered

- EXCERPT-

I said and maintain its a combo prophecy (i.e. about the birth of Jesus and Isaiah's son, Shear-Jashub
I too, I was in bed way past my bed time typing this, not sure how I'll cope not sleeping already

No I am not and/or was not insinuating that Shear-Jashub was the promised child
The promised child is Jesus
You are totally off the mark and incorrect, the other prophecy is not about the unborn Maher-shalal-hash-baz but about this boy Shear-Jashub and the two kings Ahaz was afraid of

Why was Isaiah asked to bring the boy Shear-Jashub along to the "meeting"
Do you think it was to keep Isaiah company?
No. It was because the boy had a role to play in the prophecy.
The promised child is the former part of the prophecy, this is a combo/double prophecy.
The latter part of the prophecy is the one involving the boy, Shear-Jashub and the two kings

The prophecy with Shear-Jashub was a sign to king Ahaz, whilst the prophecy about/with Jesus was a sign to the house of David
(i.e. notice "Hear now, you house of David!" from Isaiah 7 verse 13)

https://www.nairaland.com/2042507/why-deny-virgin-birth-jesus/3#28889845

- /EXCERPT -

Importantly frosbel, you are grasping at straws and barking up the wrong tree frosbel
- I cant wait to read your "wuru-wuru" with Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz and witness the turning of the embarrassment table

You need to calm down and study/research over the use of the Hebrew singular and plural form of "you" in that Isaiah 7:10-14 passage

The use of the Hebrew singular and plural form of "you" in the passage confirms and informs us who Isaiah is talking to
(e.g. when it was Ahaz or when it was the house of David)
and also confirms and informs us, what he, Isaiah, was talking about (e.g. sign of the birth of Jesus or fate of Ahaz & the Assyrian Kings)

frosbel, you are not Yooba, but you understand it, even very well or more than most Yoobas themselves, all because you grew up & lived in Lagos and importantly you are familiar with Yoruba idioms, if do the same with Hebrew idioms, the pennies will drop

frosbel:
https://s4.postimg.org/ak93xnpx5/Whatever.jpg
Whatever !

OLAADEGBU:
Your case is even worse than humpty dumpty.

frosbel:
Go and bow down before your pastor and wish him a good Christmas.

frosbel all these infantile cartoons and/or jokes renders not taking you not seriously

Too bad the party was cancelled...

THE TRAINEE
A man joins a big corporate empire as a trainee.

On his very first day of work, he dials the pantry and shouts into the phone - "Get me a coffee, quickly!"

The voice from the other side responded,
"You fool you've dialed the wrong extension! Do you know who you're talking to, dumbo?"

"No," replied the trainee.

"I am the CEO of the company, you fool!"

The trainee shouts back,
"And do YOU know who YOU are talking to, you fool?!"

"No." replied the CEO indignantly.

"Good!" replied the trainee, and puts down the phone.

---

GAY LOVE
Two gays decided to have a baby.
They mix their sperms & have a surrogate mother inseminated with it.... baby is born.

They rush to the hospital. 12 babies were in the ward: 11 were crying, only 1 was smiling

To their delight, the nurse says: It's your baby!

Gays: Isn't it a wonder, all are crying but our baby is smiling. This proves superiority of gay love

Nurse: Yeah, he's happy now! But just watch what happens when we pull the thermometer out of his ass!!

---

WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS THE DELIVERANCE?
Madam went to see a pastor about her husband Chief for a deliverance (he wouldn't go with her).

"Doctor, my husband has this problem. Almost every night now he's dreaming he's a fridge/refrigerator!"

"My dear, that is not really a problem! A lot of people dream that they are somebody or something unusual..."

Madam leans forward as she softly whispers this in confidence:
"But you see pastor, it is also a problem for me! Chief sleeps with his mouth open and the little light keeps me awake!"

---

https://s14.postimg.org/yew0yot7l/Problem_Solved.jpg

---

MISSIONARY HORSE
A missionary in the desert finds a lost man and takes him to his house where he nurses him back to health.
When the man is feeling better, he asks the missionary if he could borrow his horse to ride into town.

The missionary replies,
"Yes, but this is a special horse. You have to say 'Thank God' to make it go, and 'Amen' to make it stop."

Not paying much attention, the man acknowledges his understanding.

The man mounts the horse and says, "Thank God." The horse starts walking. Then he says, "Thank God, thank God," and the horse starts trotting. Feeling really brave, the man says, "Thank God, thank God, thank God, thank God, thank God," and the horse starts running full speed.
Soon the man sees a cliff coming up and he tries to stop the horse.
He shouts and hollers everything he can think of, such as "Whoa, stop," etc. Nothing works.

Finally he remembers what the missionary said and shouts, "Amen!!"

The horse stops inches from the cliff. Then the man leans back in the saddle, wipes his brow, and says, "Thank God."

---

ATMC: Why did you chop the joke posting in half?
BabaGnoni: HumbledbYGrace said to cut the comedy

frosbel:
lol I dey work oo.

But let me give you some homework.
Go and figure out who this child of promise was;
Isaiah's son, Shear-Jashub or Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz
just to avoid further embarrassment after I post my next rebuttal.

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Jokester... wishful thinking...
♪ ♫ Ke-re-ke-ke, Ji Ke-ke. YAA! ♫ ♪
- Fela "Abami Eda" Anikulapo Kuti

^^^
Please seun or mods this has to make front page for public awareness, neccesary agencies/releant authorities, non-profit legal/human rights organisation to see
Do not relent peterirhivben in your quest/redress for justice
What a beautiful wife you had Peter. May she RIP.
Everyone, the whole wide world, heaven is watching
Pray God give you favour & strength in midst of all

Deafening silence.
What's happened to the bee in OP's or this thread's bonnet.

frosbel:
We are all learning, a good thing if you ask me.. smiley
^^^
Arent we all, so I am glad to know and hear you say "we are all learning..."

frosbel:

^^^
That was about not following your rule of reading text with context

frosbel:
Not it is not.

Almah (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמות) is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman.[1] The term occurs nine times in the Hebrew Bible – see usage below - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

almah: a young woman, a virgin
Original Word: עַלְמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5959.htm
^^^
You prefer the "a young woman" bit and shove back the "a virgin" Yeah?
As said those bits on Almah are old news.
Interesting LOL

frosbel:
Hmm, because as you may have noticed, I only posted areas relevant to the argument, besides what does Isaiah's son Shear-Jashub have to do with this ? Surely you are not insinuating that Shear-Jashub was the promised child ??

Well, I have news for you in fulfilment of this prophecy , Isaiah 8, lets go there.....

Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.” - Isaiah 8:3-4

In other words the prophecy was about Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz who was unborn at the time and not Shear-Jashub who was already a young boy......think.

Here again you have confused yourself terribly by suggesting that a young boy who already existed when the prophecy was made was the child referred to as the promised child through the supposed virgin. Brother you have missed road here really badly.

The promised son's name was Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz not Shear-Jashub as you erroneously implied.

Plausible as per the prophecy fulfilment in Isaiah 8 but still does not explain why the sign was given specifically to King Ahaz as a confirmation that God will defeat his enemies. Tell me, what has the sign got to with an unrelated event 700 years later ??

Hmm, so you say it is combo prophecy when it suits you and when it does not suit you it is not a combo prophecy, lol. And here again you deceive your readers by mentioning a son Shear-Jashub who was already a young boy at the time of prophecy.
^^^
I said and maintain its a combo prophecy (i.e. about the birth of Jesus and Isaiah's son, Shear-Jashub
I too, I was in bed way past my bed time typing this, not sure how I'll cope not sleeping already

No I am not and/or was not insinuating that Shear-Jashub was the promised child
The promised child is Jesus
You are totally off the mark and incorrect, the other prophecy is not about the unborn Maher-shalal-hash-baz but about this boy Shear-Jashub and the two kings Ahaz was afraid of
Why was Isaiah asked to bring the boy Shear-Jashub along to the "meeting"
Do you think it was to keep Isaiah company?
No. It was because the boy had a role to play in the prophecy.
The promised child is the former part of the prophecy, this is a combo/double prophecy.
The latter part of the prophecy is the one involving the boy, Shear-Jashub and the two kings

The prophecy with Shear-Jashub was a sign to king Ahaz, whilst the prophecy about/with Jesus was a sign to the house of David (i.e. notice "Hear now, you house of David!" from Isaiah 7 verse 13)

frosbel:
Where are the other 2 or 3 witnesses ?
Apart from this verse in scripture where else is Emmanuel mentioned ?
^^^
Emmanuel is mentioned In Isaiah 8:8

and sweep into Judah until it is chin deep.
It will spread its wings, submerging your land from one end to the other, O Immanuel.
- Isaiah 8:8 NLT

frosbel:
You are really going off on one without slowing down to read your statements and make some sense of them before posting.

God has been with people, families and nations all through history as an affirmation that he values and honours their righteousness and will defeat their enemies and protect them in times of distress or need. This verse in Isaiah 7 is just another one of those periods when God was reaffirming his presence with King Ahaz and Judah during a time of distress.
^^^
Unless you want to be spoon fed, it's all sense.
Chewable, chopped up meat that was and not some muscle or tough meat
You should have cut your teeth on this long time ago

What part dont you understand in that until Jesus was named Emmanuel, Emmanuel, previously was a statement of words
Maybe you prefer drinking full-cream milk out of the carton (i.e. if not lactose intolerant)

"Reaffirming his presence with King Ahaz" you said. Pfft.
As for King Ahaz, you do know he was somewhat a baddie, and threw it back in God's face.
He sold out, sucking up to the king of Assyria, offering the king gifts, instead of having faith in God

frosbel:
That's it for now, I must go to bed.......
^^^
Though I am already in bed, I still will say, am right behind you.
I too after this post will be trying to induce myself to fall off to sleep now

frosbel:
[size=5pt]Okay let me mellow the tempo a little and let us start from scratch....... ( Your mates honourhim & Joshthefirst can help you if they want )[/size]

Now let us start from the ONLY scripture in the old testament that mentions an inkling of a virgin birth. I use the new revised version which correctly translates the word 'virgin' into young woman and not a literal virgin.

" Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman[e] is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel "

עֶלֶם
- virgin, young woman
- of marriageable age
- maid or newly married

Scholars have agreed that in this context the word Virgin means young woman.

Now lets move to the next line of argument ;

Context is important and should not be ignored, so let's have a quick review.

"In the days of Ahaz son of Jotham son of Uzziah, king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and King Pekah son of Remaliah of Israel went up to attack Jerusalem, but could not mount an attack against it." - Isaiah 7:1

Context : There was an imminent threat to Judah from an alliance between Syria and Israel and King Ahaz was shaken by this news, he was worried that he might lose his kingdom to the kings of these 2 nations. See below ;
" the heart of Ahaz and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind." - Isaiah 7:2b.

So to further encourage Ahaz and assure him of victory, God gave him this sign and promise, a promise which was related to a specific event at a specific point in history, not 700 years later.

So God asked Ahaz for a sign, thus :

" Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, saying, Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test." - Isaiah 7:10-12

And what sign was given to Ahaz ?? Read on.....

" Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman[e] is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel." - Isaiah 7:14

Who was he referring to here ? JESUS CHRIST ? I THINK NOT. Read the underlined , present tense 'IS' , which means the woman was already with CHILD, this was not an event for a future date.


Thinking hat on people....................

Except of course Jesus fulfils the following conditions in the following verses .

" He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted." - Isaiah 7:15-16

1. Did Jesus eat curds and honey
2. Did Jesus not have a sinless nature ? So how did he know how to choose between evil and good ?

Summary : It is evident that Matthew misquoted this verse to fabricate a virgin birth, in fact many bible scholars agree with this stance.

The bible also admonishes us to never confirm a matter as fact unless it is established by 2 or 3 witnesses.
So can you show me the other 2 related prophecies about the so called virgin birth in the old testament

Nowhere in the whole of scripture is Jesus called EMMANUEL and by the time of JESUS the nations of Assyria and Israel had ceased to exist.


I wait for your first rebuttal...................

frosbel, my buddy :-)
With all these rookie gaffe galore, dont fall for my hand ooo
You going on like a learner or a beginner
Wasnt it you who typed "... Context is important and should not be ignored..." in your post, or was that the handiwork of a ghost writer?
Why not adhere to your "rule" then?
Oh I see, "rules" are meant to be broken, or its a case of one rule for one, and one rule for another LOL

Anyway, must say, doing a scholarly on "virgin birth" is a bit johnny-come-lately for you and misconstruing it as a "young woman" is very convenient & full of mischief.

OK, that said, here is kicking off:
First, why did you leave out Isaiah 7:3 (i.e. the one about the boy Shear-Jashub, Isaiah's son)
Second, you do know you that Isaiah 7:13-17 is a combo prophecy (i.e. notice I stretched or widened it at the seams of your Isaiah 7:15-16)
One about the child Jesus and the other about the boy Shear-Jashub, Isaiah's son
Third, Ahaz was seeing a vision, so he would see in the present, the virgin has taking in
(i.e. she is with a child, in the belly, already with a child, unborn or yet born)or
Fourth, the "He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good" bit, is not for about Jesus, but rather was about the boy Shear-Jashub, Isaiah's son, and that prophecy came to pass
(i.e. truth to the Lord's word by the time of JESUS the nations of Assyria and Israel had ceased to exist)
If that custom of "eating curds and honey" continued or survived, its possible Jesus could have eaten curds and honey but as mentioned earlier, the fact & truth of that verse and that particular bit of the prophecy in it wasnt about Jesus, it was for or about Isaiah's son

Jesus is God the Son. EMMANUEL or Immanuel means "God with you".
It has always been a statement prior or until when it was prophesied by Isaiah that Jesus when born be named EMMANUEL or Immanuel
The bible is littered with verses of God been with person(s) and people (e.g. with Adam or in Eden etcetera) there are also verses of Him reaffirming He will be with people (e.g. with the Israelites in the wilderness en-route to Canaan etcetera)
but here in Isaiah 7:14, is God again emphatically saying that He is in the midst, He is making another appearance. God is with us.

NB: Dont just stick to one bible translation like the "new revised version" you admitted using

sammied:
Lol....na wa ooo....
No wonder we will not be required to carry bible to heaven....e for no easy...

Bro, it's us laughing over it but it really isnt a laughing matter at all

Wasnt it you who earlier reminded us that God is Omnipotent, or was this somebody else on another thread
(i.e. LOL one with frosbel losing his marbles)

Anyway, sha, God as well as been Omnipotent, He is Omniscient too. He is ALL KNOWING, knowing everything. God saw all this coming
and just before you said:
"No wonder we will not be required to carry bible to heaven....e for no easy..."

the bible had earlier recorded in Hebrews 10:15-16, something the Holy Spirit tells us:

¹⁵The Holy Spirit tells us the same thing:
¹⁶"This is the promise that I will make to them after those days, says the Lord:
'I will put my teachings in their hearts and write them in their minds.' "
- Hebrews 10:15-16 GOD'S WORD® Translation

even if the bible was abused, was distorted, was misused, the Lord would say:
"... what of my teachings I put in your hearts and wrote them in your minds..."
- Subconsciously the teachings are in us.

In the grand scheme of things, the Bible is an enabler and we look to the Spirit of Truth for guidance

^^^
IS THERE A BABY IN THE CHARISMATIC BATHWATERS by Phil Johnson, shows how horrible and revolting the "church" can be
Enough to give anyone a horrid nightmare.

Justin had numerous encounters with WoF self-acclaimed healers
Among his first-hand encounters with them is one where he got stopped, whispered to, turned round and turned back from approaching the healing stage/platform of a very famous or popular healing minister

sammied:
Whatever it is: Pastor , shepherd, Teacher ( I don't even believe in any) it not my concern..
my point is: how did this people got to head this churches? through the gift?

What is the gift? how do we know those who genuinely have the gift? Because they have the desire and 'understand' scriptures?

I think this is one of the reasons there's confusion everywhere.

Concerning the cooking gift....my brother many people like me don't have the gift of cooking...
but we have mastered the art of cooking through necessity....
there are schools everywhere you can be trained as a professional chef....
to cook excellent food..better than those who may have the gift...

Is it applicable to the above?

shdemidemi:
On the contrary, we have so many who make claims of 'God called me to the ministry' without basic understanding of scripture or skill to teach.
All they do is flutter wild guesses or prophesy what itchy ears like to hear and your 'church' is filled with so many people who have a problem you claim you can solve.

how did this people get to head this churches? through the gift?
^^^
The only head of the church, I know of, is Jesus Christ

What is the gift?
^^^
1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesian 4:11 tells us what the gifts are
(i.e. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers).
Notice that pastors was lumped with teachers, and together both even came last in the listing

how do we know those who genuinely have the gift?
Because they have the desire and 'understand' scriptures?
^^^
We know those who genuinely have the gift by their fruits
anything else than displaying good fruits or exhibiting the fruits of the spirit, then they are hirelings and thieves

I think this is one of the reasons there's confusion everywhere
^^^
God is not the author of the confusion

Concerning the cooking gift....
my brother many people like me don't have the gift of cooking...but we have mastered the art of cooking through necessity....
there are schools everywhere you can be trained as a professional chef....
to cook excellent food..better than those who may have the gift...
^^^
This was laughable.
Well there is something similar in the "church" industry too, where one goes to "master the art of fleecing through necessity & out of greed"
such places are everywhere, you can be trained as a professional
to dish out excellent demons sermons... and do "better" than those who may have the gift of shepherd(ing)
It is called a cemetery seminary

No, it isn't applicable to the above or the church, it is applicable to the "church" though

sammied:
Some questions:

How did Macauthur know he should assume the Pastorate of his present Church?
How did he know he was to teach or Pastor..
how did he know and entered the office (Pastor or Teacher)?

Do you believe that God calls people to be Pastor or Teachers of the word like John Macauthur and the rest today?
If yes...how did they know...?
Since their name is not Particularly in the bible?

Can/should every christian head a church?
Those who are to head a church, how will they know since there's no particular scriptures addressed with their names?

How did John Macauthur know he should head a church.?
...at least there's no scriptures written confirming his name (in regards to heading a church).

John Macauthur is a Pastor....how did he entered into that office....
considering there's no scriptures with his name...saying he would enter that office...or should enter that office?

Lastly, does God call certain people into the office of a Teacher or Pastor, or every christian should be in those offices?

Note: I have no bias against Pastor John Macauthur.
I used is name as example since we are dealing with a conference he organised...
I could as well used R. C Sproul or anybody.

^^^
First, we all know what the distinction between church and "church" is, so no point to dwell at all on them.

So we skip the distinction(s) between church and "church" and going directly on to "Pastor" (i.e. sammied's bone of contention)

What is known as pastor(s) today, is what Jesus called hirelings or hired hand(s) in John 10:12-13

Jesus mentioned that the hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep and even before then called them thieves, saying "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (i.e. John 10:10)

- Jesus, 2000 years ago, saw today coming. He saw the reality, the emergence of thief(eves) come only to steal and kill and destroy

Before the upgrade to thieves status, Isaiah way back from the OT, has this to say (i.e. Isaiah 56:11)

"They are dogs with mighty appetites; they never have enough.
They are shepherds who lack understanding;
they all turn to their own way, they seek their own gain."
- Isaiah 56:11 NIV

"Pastor". Hmm, pastor, pastorate or pastoring, this is an interesting one as there is ONLY ONE Pastor (i.e. Shepherd) which is our Lord Jesus.

"Pastor", pastorate or pastoring has to do with pastures or pastoral.
Remember the scripture, "Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture." (i.e. Psalms 100:3)
- we are the sheep of the pasture of the LORD

Shepherding, in this instance is a gift, it has no office or title.

It is a privilege to shepherd on behalf of God but one doesnt take up the title or status (i.e. pastor)
That office or title (i.e. Pastor) is reserved for our Lord Jesus Christ. There is ONLY ONE PASTOR
Just as cooking doesnt make one a chef or because one cooks to call oneself a chef such is shepherd.

Conveniently, there is only ONE mention of PASTOR in the NT, and where it was mentioned, it was used exclusively for our Lord Jesus Christ
- you would find the word, pastors (i.e. pastor with a "s'' in Ephesians 4:11) once too in NT, which was translated from shepherd
but as said, the only Pastor used in NT was used in reference to our Lord Jesus Christ

It is a common parlance with our mums jokingly calling the kitchen's their "office" though they cook in the "office", they dont joke or make the mistake of seriously calling themselves the chef or assume the title

So is with shepherding a gathering, it is a gift, it is not an office nor a pastorate title to assume
(i.e. one uses the shepherd gift, as in to guide, to feed, to protect etcetera the Lord's sheep and pasture but not take on an office or title of pastor. There is only one Pastor)

Religion, operating since time immemorial

⁴⁵Then, with the crowds listening, he turned to his disciples and said,
⁴⁶“Beware of these teachers of religious law! For they like to parade around in flowing robes and love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces. And how they love the seats of honor in the synagogues and the head table at banquets.
⁴⁷Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.”
- Luke 20-45-47 NLT

Just as cooking is a gift, mind you not all are good at cooking, if at all, any can cook, likewise are shepherds and teachers gifts

Why are gifts been misconstrued as offices or titles?
Those of us who have the gift of cooking, we cook like chefs but dont seriously call ourselves chefs
Functioning as a shepherd is not a licence or permission to be called a pastor

PS: Sorry I thought I was responding to shdemidemi, didnt realise quick enough that it was sammied's post

shdemidemi:
Jokester

^^^
https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif

nlMediator:
[size=5pt]From the above, it means you accept the OT is also the Word of God. Which is the same as Jesus.
Yet, after the OT, God continued to speak to people outside the written scriptures. That contradicts your claim from Hebrews that God has spoken to us through His Word and thus need not speak in any other way, besides pain. BTW, your adding pain as a means of communication also contradicts your assertion about Hebrews. Pain was not added there. If you could add pain, so can we add other things.[/size]

And nobody said an audible voice is the only way God speaks outside the Bible.

Besides, do you believe the devil speaks to people today?
Have you ever asked the people that hear the devil and his demons what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's?

shdemidemi:
[size=5pt]The Old Testament isn't Jesus. It is a shadow of what is to come by Christ.

It is not my claim, it is clearly written in the book. It is plainly divided into prophets and the Son in the book.

Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

Pain or disaster isn't a means of communication but a way to subject our flesh to mortification thus our spirit become induced to look up to God at such times.

We almost present ourselves as the all in all and end in all when things are happening all around us. Disappointments some times helps take the chip off our shoulder.

The life of Job is a perfect example of this, everything was going on well for the man until God nudged him. The man said things that revealed all of his weaknesses and all that was fundamentally wrong with Job. God came in to the scene to eventually reveal Himself as the one behind all of Job's success and this He did not because of the works of Job (contrary to what Job thought) but because He is merciful.

Job got the message via disaster. That is not to say disaster can supplant God's word as written in the the sacred scripture but its God's way of calling our attention back to Himself most times.[/size]

You need to speak for yourself bro. Some people actually think God speak like you and I will speak to each other. Some say God appear to them in the person of Jesus to have a one on one chat.

I have never met anyone who speaks with the devil. May be when or if I do I will pose the question.

I believe the devil speak with most mainframe men of God if truly they hear voices and that is if it isn't all gimmicks and lies to stay relevant

Good catch nlMediator, didnt know you were keeping abreast of this thread and shdemidemi's dexterity at weaving in and out

I didnt want to go down the route of "... people that hear the devil and his demons, what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's" with shdemidemi.
This for the reason that knowing shdemidemi, he will lash on to it, use it as a distraction, divert from the original or main matter and possibly make a real meal out of it

shdemidemi, nlMediator is on point, do you believe the devil and demons spoke to people in the past and still speaks to people today?

Saul, the witch of Endor and the demon (i.e. familiar spirit) masquerading as Samuel is a classic example (i.e. 1 Samuel 28:3-20)
Another are the demons (i.e. legion of them) cast into pigs (i.e. Mark 5:1-17)

Let me share a story, a story about voices, I once heard a "friend" narrate.
Back in the day, this "friend" decided one day to experiment with substances (i.e. cannabis also known as marijuana or igbo)
The first time he tried igbo, it was only had a small amount of half finished wrap and it didn’t have much, if any effect on him
but as for the second time and last, it did have some effects, very interesting effects

This is the story and the interesting things that happened the second time round of smoking igbo
He said, he asked the dealer to give him a good quality high grade igbo, as the first time he took it, the igbo didnt "shack" him at all
(i.e. he didnt get high on it)

He went home to enjoy the rolled up spliff, in the safety comfort of his home, he lit the joint and took a cautionary small drag of the weed, nothing happened, no effects, it was déjà vu, it was just like the first time.
So he decided to up the ante by doing a deeper drag and inhalation,
this time there was a surprising effect, he said he felt at peace, he felt floating and ascending into the air, he felt euphoric.
He liked the feeling, and wanted more of it, so on the next inhalation, he took a deeper x2 inhalation,
and that was when the first interesting thing happened, he felt light and dizzy, like he was spinning
then like a bolt out of the blue he started hearing a voice, the voice was said:
"You are high, and getting higher on your way to heaven,
it is getting hot in here, take off your shirt, unbuckle your belt, pull off your trousers and flip off your shoes,
Get yourself relaxed, be relaxed, ease the tension.
The next round I promise you, you will be on cloud seven, it is going to be life changing and you would never be the same again"

He said, he obeyed the voice, by taking off everything except for his pant or boxer-short and made himself comfortable
He took another very deep deep drag of the weed, pow, again he heard the voice.
The voice said:
"yank off your pant or boxer-short, drop-kick the door, go out on to the street stark n@ked and starting doing 100m races"

At this point, he said he came to himself, knowing that if he obeyed the voice and he cross that line, this will be the beginning of madness for him (i.e. kolo mental and/or Yaba left)
He put out the cannabis, threw it away, stomped on it and quashed it with his feet on the floor, and that was his last time of smoking cannabis and hearing that voice

"That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God.
But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks.
Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning."
- © nlMediator
^^^
LOL, shdemidemi, stepped right in it. LOL
Two people you dont want them catching you slacking are nlMediator and mbaemeka
LOL try wriggle out of that gaffe shdemidemi LOL
Good luck LOL

shdemidemi:
All these subtle jabs your sharing.. DIA IS GOD oooo ....

You know me that, I am a strong advocate and evangelist of laughter
a study claims that children laugh more than 300 times a day, whereas adults laugh less than 17-20 times a day
Laughter frees up quite a lot of things, thanks for today's earlier dosage LOL

Bro, we both grown, and all good with each other
as you already know, nothing personal bro
Nobi me only waka come ooo LOL
so in my best "Dragon's Den" catchphrase: Am out

shdemidemi:
Bro, I am happy you are laughing, its sure good for the soul.

King Solomon wrote three books, it does not surprise me when most prosperity preachers go to this book to dig out formulas to success.
If we take the book or the verses of those books in isolation we will sure make them mean anything we desire but contrary to the overall and holistic gist of scripture.

The books were progressive...
Solomon's state of mind and what mattered to him at every point was also moving in stages.
At the end of it all Solomon came to himself, he counted all he had acquired as dreg.

^^^
Try and not be ignorant about Solomon like your allegedly "prosperity preachers" bro.

Have you read anywhere yet on this thread anyone insinuating that hearing the voice of God or hearing from God is about formulas or formulae?
Please be mature and honest in your rebuttals

Sure Solomon started well, he put his best foot forward at the beginning with that prayer of his I previously shared (i.e. II Chronicles 1:10)
but Solomon went downhill after obtaining the wisdom, wealth, harem etcetera,
he, Solomon got influenced with foreign gods and practices through the many wives & concubines acquired and allowed his head swell too

shdemidmi, compare II Chronicles 9:22 at Solomon's death with II Chronicles 1:12 at Solomon's beginning, what do you observe or notice in the wording arrangement

[size=5pt]

shdemidemi:
That is the spirit the bible present. What we call good isn't necessarily what God calls good.
Luke 16
What society sees and calls monumental,
God sees through and calls monstrous.

I have two group of people in my life. The good friends and the bad friends. When I look through God's knowledge of scripture, which set of friends teach me more about life? My bad friends.

So I don't curse or say bad things about them cos they teach me more and push me more than the good ones. Many things I know today came from one bad decision I had made earlier in life. I believe God bring these two set of people in my life because they are needed for my walk in life.

I believe the passage that says 'we are led by the Spirit of God if we are sons'. What I call a bad decision might be God's way of transforming my way of thinking or a way of breaking down my defences from putting any trust in the flesh.

The very moment a soul is broken down in true self-judgment, God rises before it in all His grace, majesty and benevolence as the Justifier.For our God delights in a broken and contrite spirit, He finds His habitat in such a soul.

I believe the bible gives us a good platform to learn through biblical characters. Notice all failures recorded in scriptures are linked to SELF through disobedience or legalism.

Jesus couldn't have failed because he submitted himself completely to God and His counsel.

Paul couldn't have failed because he was sold out to God as a bond servant

[/size]
^^^
All the above no one is disagreeing with you, the truth & fact is God speaks aside the Bible. You can take it or leave it

shdemidemi:
They were never aware of a place called heaven and hell in the old testament, it was always between success for obedience and destruction for disobedience.

Today, our priority isn't earthly success (anyone diligent can have that) but heavenly glory that is to come by Christ.

bro you left me ROTFL, but it is alright ooo
however correctly, hell is a greek concept, Jews never had hell, they never shared the Greek mythology of hell.
They had sheol quite alright
they definitely were aware of sheol, abraham's bosom or paradise

I sincerely hope you study the intricacy of Solomon's prayer and/or desire.
It was not a "self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred" request but was about what God had put him in charge over
The ability to discern from good and bad when managing the people God placed under his, Solomon's care

The snippet is Solomon's prayer and/or desire:
"Give me a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong.
For who is able to govern this great people of yours?"

That is how hearing the voice of God, aside clear instructions in the Bible, and responding appropiately is all about.

Who is able to "govern", to check the flesh, check its avarices, check this great body of ours given to us by God to look after? etcetera

With media pressure, subliminal advertising, sex in advertising or the use of sex appeal in advertising, peer pressure, misplaced priorities etcetera
we definitely need that extra ever ready helpful voice of God to steer and guide on us, especially if a physical Bible isnt readily available
and we can be rest assured whatever we hear, however we hear it, the voice will ALWAYS compliment and not go against the written counsel of God's word or the Bible