₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
That moment when you say something and someone cant think with his brain but with an ancient book. . . continue quoting bible...

frosbel:
Throwing around abusive words carelessly (akin to throwing your toys out of the pram ) does not count for good bible exegesis and is certainly not a trait to be found in a seasoned bible scholar.

I posted a link from the Jewish Encyclopaedia ( they should know better I hope ) refuting your attempt to call God by the name Jehovah, this is not accepted in most Jewish rabbinical circles.

Any way here is an excerpt for all to see :

YHWH.
Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel.
This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility (see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai ( = "Lord" ), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a "ḳeri perpetuum" ) instead of Yhwh.

You need to stop hyperventilating and calm down so we can have a rational debate, abi we dey fight

johnydon22:
Yeah we see his track records in the bible...
where he demands both animal and human sacrifices, favours one nation, commits genocide, admonishes slavery and rape, sanctions massacres to count but a few...
yeah thats the attributes of a supreme god lmao...
whats d different between him and those ones you call deities..
agree or not they are all deities u only choose to revere one more than others. . .
and what evidences are u yapping about??

frosbel:
In your haste to point out Jehovah ( which is not the same as YHWH - http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11305-names-of-god ) in the Igbo bible totally missed my point on another one of your ego trips

Question 1. When did the Bible get to the Igbos
Question 2. - What name did they know God by over the last 1000 years before they heard the Gospel/

Chew on this one while I make some red stew for my family -

johnydon22:
so how did u get to know that YHWH is the real god
and not chineke or olorun or amadioha or ezechitoke or horus or osiris or mythras or zeus or etc..

frosbel:
Don't mind the Christian Zionist who worship the Jews and their bible - smh.

frosbel:
You are slippery and as dubious (no surprise here ) as they come.

In my language as an Igbo , Chineke is used to represent God the Creator hence me using this word intentionally.
Before the missionaries came to Africa and even if most cases today, many Igbo people only know God as Chineke, Chukwu etc and not YHWH which is exclusive to the Jews.
How the hell did you expect them to know him by the Jewish name when they do not speak Hebrew - duh !!

It also appears that you are a christian Zionist and Jewish slave, since you think God has only one name in only one language belonging to only one tribe.
If this is not racism and elitism I truly do not know what else is.

God is not restricted to a tribe or language, get this fact into your head.

It is quite shocking, bewildering, astounding and mind boggling that you write off 99% of the world tribes who never knew God by his Jewish name but names inherent to their own language and vernacular, by suggesting quite ignorantly that the names they call God are not valid, this is as dumb as dumb can be.

I repeat, God is not a Jewish God, he is the ONE God who is the creator or the universe and world as we know it and he has many names in many different languages.

frosbel:
^^^^^
Deceptive christian, how can you apply deductive reasoning based on assumption ?

I deliberately used Chineke and Olorun as the name for God the creator who is ONE .

Why do you force my statement to mean other than this God and is it not strange that you try and align what I meant with johnydon22's comment ?

Is this not how you and your ilk twist the scriptures to your destruction my misrepresenting positions and forcing opinions!

Guys try and act like Christ if only for a minute !

johnydon22:
You all dont get it...
Frosbel no longer believe the bible god is the real deal.
he's agnostic now and can never go back.

frosbel:
Wrong my brother .

I believe that he is the God of the universe,
but that he may be known by other names in other cultures such as Chineke in Igbo or Olorun in Yoruba etc.

in other words he is the God of all mankind and not exclusive to the Jews.

Sorry to bust your bubble

johnydon22:
lmao still clinging to ur old beliefs... hehehehehehe.
what made you think chineke in igbo is same as yahweh ...

sorry to burst ur bubbles too but yahweh aint same as chineke in igbo, olorun in yoruba...
why dont you also say yahweh is same as baal and dagon...

these are different cultures and differents gods...simple.

5solas:
Or Allah.

frosbel:
What we know is that there is ONE God no matter what name he is called by,
I think the bible misrepresents this God in some of the most profound ways possible.

johnydon22:
xo zeus, amadioha, poseidon, horus, vishnu, allah, yahweh, dagon, chomosh, osiris, seth etc
are actually one god with different names?
and not different gody entities?

shdemidemi:
@GOSHEN
your friend has made up his mind to distort the message of Christ.

He now confesses that obatala, amadioha, esuodara are all one and the same with ELOHIM.
All that concerns him at the minute is discrediting the bible and at the same time throw a lot of confusion around as to why the bible should be thrown out. He is on a quest to foster his beliefs on the forum.

I think he likes you, seemingly because you have been a comrade he used when he was discrediting wolves in sheep clothing within the church. He has since moved from there, I don't think he needs you for his new cause. I think he will eventually oblige you at some point but be ready for what is to hit you, it might not be pleasant.

frosbel:
I know Christians will fight and die for the bible even if it means lying but they will not obey or follow Christ, this is a fact !

But you have now gone a bit low by LYING that I made the following statement ;

"He now confesses that obatala, amadioha, esuodara are all one and the same with ELOHIM."

Is this the Christ-like example you are showing ? Shame on you !

cool

shdemidemi:
Do you now agree Jesus is the only way to the father?

frosbel:
I demand an apology for your LIE before we proceed on this point.

vooks:
These fickle arguments are based on conflating the fate of the body and spirit at death.
The body disintegrates and that is why there is no memory nor thought in death. The spirit lives on.

Let me help you think. Why do you think Saul went to the Witch of Endor? To revive Samuel's corpse? And what do you think came up? That's what a spirit looks like. It is fully conscious.

Am glad you admitted. Angels live as long as God wills. Human,demonic and angelic immortality is CONDITIONAL. It depends on how long God wills whereas God's immortality is UNCONDITIONAL because he is the ultimate UNCAUSED CAUSE. Repeat after me;

'the creature immortality is conditional while the Creator's ain't '

Your job abd BabaGnoni's is to demonstrate termination of this 'created immortality'

You also need to twist this scripture that equates the duration of eternity for BOTH the wicked and the righteous

Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

frosbel:
So says the ignorant one who says in his own words " God dying all over again ", who forms doctrines out of fables and who twists words to mean something else than their original meanings ( deception ).

Your problem is ITK and ego, if you lowered your pride a little you just might learn some new truths.

I promise to tear apart your earlier fallacious and unbiblical rant !

frosbel:
^^^^

Rigmarole galore , but I will play this game of words, let me grab some hot tea first and finish my movie -

Response space reserved.

Image123:
Who doesn't too?

frosbel:
To make the following statement
"God effectively is dying all over again, killing Himself" smacks off as either [size=13pt]bold arrogance[/size] or [size=13pt]pitiful ignorance[/size].

God gives life, God does not die in any form or shape even when this life dies because it returns to him as validated by scripture - stop this gnostic nonense.

I had to edit out most of the other meaningless rant.

But let me just assure you that when the Bible says immortal, it means exactly what it says , CANNOT DIE.
Your inferences are not derived from plain truths but perceived notions based on extra-biblical writings/scripture/notes etc.

I conclude ( no time for circular today ) with ;
"and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles." - Romans 1:23

I think Paul knew what he was writing when he contrasted immortal as it pertains to GOD , to mortal as it pertains to MAN.

But let's see how the original Greek word for immortal is explained ;

862. aphthartos
Original Word: ἄφθαρτος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aphthartos
Phonetic Spelling: (af'-thar-tos)
Short Definition: imperishable, incorruptible
Definition: [size=14pt]indestructible, imperishable, incorruptible; hence: immortal.[/size]

1. Only God is immortal
2. In no sense at all is MAN immortal , all over the bible from Gen 2:7, MAN is referred to as Mortal in his entirety not in parts - Isaiah 51:12, Job 4:17, etc. Note : It does not say the body of MAN is mortal, it says MAN , that's 100% him/her is mortal.
3. Angels are not mortal , they may have a life span that is controlled by God based on obedience, but angels can be destroyed as per Ezekiel 28:19 and Mark 1:24
4. Immortality is a Gift granted ONLY after the last judgement - 1 Corinthians 15:54

Image123:
We are not in the beginning.

Image123:
The reality before us is that precious things are hidden to us, and we need to pry, mine, dig, extract and refine.
That is life, not a game.

vooks:
BabaGnoni,
your posts are a joy to read.
one thing I may aks you though.
Before the fall, wasn't man's immortality restricted to the physical?
I mean, the body only suffered corruption following the Fall.
The same spirit within man lives and the spirit is the essential man so far that Paul considers the body to be a tent.
Would the fact that man lives beyond physical death lead us to conclude that he is immortal?

vooks:
... The same spirit within man lives and the spirit is the essential man so far that Paul considers the body to be a tent...

vooks:
...Would the fact that man lives beyond physical death lead us to conclude that he is immortal?

frosbel:
What !!!!!!
So god can die, aye ?

vooks:
When I say man and satan and his angels are immortal, I mean they have the propensity to live FOREVER. Only God can stop them, and He won't do this in the Lake of Fire.

When we say God is Faithful not to forget our labor of love, we certainly don't mean He has 'evidence of the unseen'.
Man's immortality and God's are poles apart

frosbel:
Look at this one looking for a way out.

How can you say "When I say man and Satan and his angels are immortal I mean they have the propensity to live FOREVER ", does this even make sense to you ?

What does immortal mean , go and check a dictionary !

frosbel:
Vooks forgive me for calling you out as an ignoramus par excellence,
just what is difficult in understanding what a simple term like immortal means ??
Why lie to give it another meaning in preparation for your withdrawal ??

Immortal means = cannot die

Easy, simple, no need to pretend you understand, just get a dictionary and learn a new word.

Back to the question : is man immortal ?

vooks:
Man is immortal negro. He puts off this earthly tent and survives as a spirit.
Satan and his demons are immortal; they don't die and only cease to exist when God says so which He won't.
Angels are immortal, I don't recall reading a requiem for angels nowhere

Michael we see him in Daniel and thousands of years later in Revelation. Will he die?

Thinking may not be your forte but pretend it is

frosbel:
Back to mystery , lol.

Good night Pal

frosbel:
You are getting more confused by the hour.
You once equalled a Parable to a Fable.
Are we now to form doctrine out of Fables?

And why is it so hard for you to stick to your bible to emphasize your TRUTH,
surely scripture must validate scripture, scripture does not stand on it's own , do you agree ?

A little humility and honesty will point you in the right direction....

frosbel:
Clutching at straws now are we !

Next time think carefully before you start throwing around made-up stories.

frosbel:
Hmm let me see.
because both of you supported the concept of a dual compartmented Hell
while the other added the factor of suffering.

Don't panic, no ulterior motive, I am sure our readers will get the gist.

frosbel:
Read again.

Sheol with TWO Compartments, or is this not your position ??

Your other mate uses this error to support the concept of suffering in the wicked part of Sheol.

Do you get it now ??

frosbel:
Ran out of points ? Hmmm.

I think I was the one that left you guys some food for thought last night but got no reply.

The Babagnoni myth of Sheol consisting of 2 compartments was debunked again with these scripture quoted below ( Looks like you guys are losing the plot fast ) ;

^^^^^

Can you or your friend, show me a HINT of Sheol having 2 compartments with the associated suffering of the wicked or did you see this in a trance/hallucination/vision

Let me extract some clichés from the scriptures I quoted above to reinforce truths into your thought process ;

- his thoughts perish
- in peace they go down to Sheol ( i.e the wicked )
- the dead know nothing

See how tradition has made people you people unable to reason appropriately in the light of overwhelming evidence ?

frosbel:
good, so there is noting to suggest or even give a hint to buttress your fable.

hmm.

BabaGnoni:
My very good friend, if you think you can weaselly get off the hook that easy, you have another thing coming

You are out of touch with reality to think and/or conjure up an "accepting a plea of ignorance or Mystery card used as Camouflage"

I once said you are plagued by the latter part of Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:
but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
- Luke 8:10 King James Bible

Rebellious people have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people (i.e. Ezekiel 12:2)

No matter how closely they listen, they'll never understand. No matter how closely they look, they'll never see (i.e. Isaiah 6:9)

For the second time, let see how calm you are once you dig yourself deeper in a hole, get cornered in an alley or snookered into a tight corner

You like asking dumb or dumber questions,
so two can play the game and here is to let's play the game
To start with and to wet your whistle

I dont know what you want to end up with or where you want to end with asking that question:

"Show me ONE scripture in the OT where anyone believed in Abraham's bosom with 2 compartments
or even Adam's bosom if you wish."
- © frosbel

If you are asking "Where in the OT is Sheol consisting of TWO Compartments?"
then you too, show us where in the OT is/was Jesus named or mentioned?

Show us where, in the OT, is looking at a woman with lust, adultery? (i.e. Matthew 5:28)

Can you now see the futility of your amateur skeptic/sophomoric question?

Quite a few of Jesus' teachings aren't found in the OT
- Jesus' fable (i.e. moral story) about Sheol and its dividing gulf/compartment obviously is one of them too

frosbel:
You are still not able to show me ONE , not TWO , not THREE, just ONE part of scripture of the OT where there is even the vaguest hint of a 2 compartmented Sheol.

Don't come back with another endless rant, just say there is none or if there is show us !!

shdemidemi:
You evade vooks question, the same way you scampered when you ran out of points to defend your no heaven no hell proposition.

Now its salvation, very soon it will be the law and grace. Keep running round circles, the truth will always find you out.

frosbel:
Mate I am Mr 'As Calm as the summer sea '.
I enjoy a good debate, though one could argue that standards are falling these days

Let me repeat my question ( please no rants, dribbling, ego trips etc ) :

Where in the OT is there the slightest suggestion/evidence/hint that Sheoi consists of TWO Compartments ?

Thank You.

frosbel:
[size=13pt]Ok, I accept your plea of ignorance using the Mystery card as Camouflage [/size]!

vooks:
When I say man and satan and his angels are immortal, I mean they have the propensity to live FOREVER. Only God can stop them, and He won't do this in the Lake of Fire.

When we say God is Faithful not to forget our labor of love, we certainly don't mean He has 'evidence of the unseen'.
Man's immortality and God's are poles apart

frosbel:
Mate I am Mr 'As Calm as the summer sea '. I enjoy a good debate, though one could argue that standards are falling these days

Let me repeat my question ( please no rants, dribbling, ego trips etc ) :

Where in the OT is there the slightest suggestion/evidence/hint that Sheoi consists of TWO Compartments ?

Thank You.

frosbel:
Vooks is dull - fact !!

Looks like he is beginning to dumb you down , don't hang out with him for too long.

Please answer my 'kweshion' earlier posed about Abraham's bosom - cool

frosbel:
Babagoni the ITK has now reached the end of his logic and replaced the argument with MYSTERY, hahaha

Just humble yourself and say ,Mi o mo!

You cannot support this fallacy of yours because it aint scripture and it aint in scripture.

CAPTIVATOR:
Why dis lie bro ..... Man, Demons, Satan are not immortal !!!!
ONLY Jesus is given "immortality" 1 tim 6:16 ONLY JESUS !
All others can be destroyed, u dont exist before God create u and he can return U to that dead non existent state.

vooks:
What is immortal

CAPTIVATOR:
"Turning the cities ( Sodom and Gomorah) into ashes" ....
Anything turned to ashes is permanently destroyed ( 2pet 2:6)

frosbel:
^^^

Junk !!!

Show me ONE scripture in the OT where anyone believed in Abraham's bosom with 2 compartments or even Adam's bosom if you wish.

Don't start another pointless rant, just show me, after all scripture should validate scripture or are you not taking the metaphor in a parable to force a meaning which is alien to the truth ?

Let's deal with this in a systematic way.

shdemidemi:
you are still here!