₦airaland Forum

@Davidylan

2. No u're not complaining, it however smacks of insincerity when muslims like babs start straying over to the other section to leave their usual anti-christian falsehoods. Why don't they stay here and talk of the quran?

You will always show the stuff you are made of. You prefer seeking attention to sitting and leaarning but when being exposed, you bolt, saying irrelevant things. Go to the threads I have debated using the biblical verses and bring the one I mis interpreted or quoted wrongly. You would always cry simply because Babs exposed and explained verses you have been using to deceive people. You may go the thread, 'trinity, help me' and see how I brought the false prophecies you have been attributing to Jesus. You have been claiming that Muslims pick verses out of context but you were caught doing that and some others that I have dealt with.

Go to the Islam section and read if we do not educate ourselves day in day out and they are not blind folded like you who has been served the truth but prefer going astray.

If you do have anything in Islam you still want us to debate, then create the thread we discuss rather than your childish post.

If you and your folks would be honest to yourselves, you would have been reading that Babs have been giving you biblical verses to support my argument and to nail you when you are programmed never to accept the truth no matter how glaring it is.

Continue swimming in the oceaan of ignorance and pride.

@Javaprince

babs Salam Alaykum My Brother.

Wa Alaekun Salam brother and I do hope you are doing great?


So, where are we sef?

It seems my brother has mellowed down and accepted defeat in good faith. You would be treated specially on that Day.

Amin

Jazakhullah Khairan Brother Littleb. May Allah reward you abundantly (Amin)

Where is RedHotchic? Have not made up your mind yet, the clock is ticking. All you supplied have been explained but you would have to blame no one when the time comes. You have heard the message and its now left for you to accept.

@A.K.O

For more explanation which I don't see why you should require, read this, then read my signature:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=152561.msg2528678#msg2528678

I went there and these are what I say and I noticed that you have been posting here, asking questions and you have not been banned. Also christians in the like of Davidylan, RedHotchic among all have been there. I noticed in the link supplied up that Tpia asked you questio in which you didnt reply. Below are the quotes from the link supplied by you.


You said this:

The long and short of what hes saying is that why should there be a mooslim section that is off limits to everyone else by law, thereby giving it some immunity. Whereas the religion/christian section is open to everyone, for criticism, bashing, bad belle, insults, etc. There is obvious preferential treatment.

Tpia

who says the mus'lim section is off limits to everyone else? Were you barred from posting there?

just asking.

The Sly

Nahhhh you don't need to be barred to know its not for everyone!

''A forum for Muslims to share their faith. Muslims only please, even the moderators are Muslims.''
See?

Tpia

hmm. Are they taking that serious?

I just don't have any interest in their topics, otherwise they would have seen me there.

Despite the fact that its for Muslims, non Muslims have been coming and were not banned in which you A.K.O happens to be one of them.

Your Heart and Gates of Satan

The heart is the most honorable part of the human body, for it is the part that knows Allah, works for Him, seeks to draw near to Him, and feels the value of His bounties and favors. The other organs are only followers of the heart, which it utilizes as kings utilize their slaves.

Whoever knows his or her heart knows the Lord, yet most people are ignorant of their hearts and souls. Allah, Most High, comes in between a person and his or her heart, and He is in full control of all hearts. Thus, knowing the heart and its qualities and functions is an integral part of the religion and a basis for those who seek the right way to Almighty Allah.

Naturally, the heart is prepared to accept guidance, but because of vain desires and wishes, it may reject such guidance. In this way, the heart remains a field of struggle between angels (the soldiers of good) and devils (the soldiers of evil) until it chooses to side with either. Then, the chosen party will settle in the heart, with the heart still having to resist the other party.

The only way to get devils out of the heart is to remember and mention Almighty Allah, as they cannot stay in a place where Allah, the Lord of all, is mentioned. In the Qur'an, Almighty Allah says:

[Say, "I take refuge with the Lord of humankind, the King of humankind, the God of humankind from the evil of the constantly slinking whisperer, who whispers in the breasts of humankind, of the Jinn and humankind."] (An-Nas 114:1-6)

The Gates

The heart is like a fort, and the Devil is like an enemy who seeks to enter this fort and control it. The best way to protect a fort is to safeguard its gates, and none can safeguard its gates except a person who is well aware of them. By the same token, no one can push Satan away except one who knows the means that he usually uses to penetrate the forts of his victims. Satan's means of penetration are human's qualities, which are so many. We are going to mention only some of those methods much used by the soldiers of Satan.

Envy and covetousness:- Once people covet something, their desire puts out the light of their hearts with which they would recognize Satan's evil means of penetration. Satan finds more support if the covetous person is envious, as this enables Satan to make good in the person's eyes everything that may help in satisfying his or her desire, no matter how abominable or offensive it may be.

Wrath and craving:- Anger precludes recognition. Once a person is no longer able to recognize things around him or her, it is then most suitable for Satan to attack with his evil insinuations. It is said that when a man becomes heedlessly angry, devils play with him as boys play with a ball.

Eating one's fill:- This strengthens one's desire and distracts from showing obedience to the Creator.

Haste:- About it, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, "Deliberation is from Allah, and haste is from Satan." (This hadith is regarded as hasan by Al-Albani)

Love of wealth:- If inculcated in one's heart, it ruins it, driving the person to seek wealth through lawful or even unlawful means and making such person stingy and very afraid of poverty. A person like this in most cases holds the due rights of others unjustly.

Fanaticism:- Some people may fanatically follow or support certain doctrines or views without even acting according to the good requirements entailed therein. Moreover, they may be interested only in thinking about Allah's existence and attributes as well as other matters that are beyond their comprehension; thus they may come to doubt the very foundations of the religion they vehemently defend.

Thinking ill of other:- When a Muslim thinks ill of others, he or she may be led to despise, backbite, or spread evil things about them. He or she may, thus, believe that he or she is better than them.

A believer, on the contrary, should never think ill of others; rather, he or she should seek excuses for them. That is the way of believers. The hypocrite, on the other hand, always tries to detect defects and flaws in others. Anyway, a Muslim should keep away from suspicious situations so that others may not think ill of him or her.

These are some of the means used by Satan to lead humans to the way of evil. The remedy of these flaws is simply to block the ways leading to them and to purify the heart from all dispraised qualities.

When someone's heart is void of these evils, which represent the main instrumentality of Satan against human beings, nothing significant remains to support Satan against them. Satan is simply driven away just by mentioning the name of Almighty Allah. Adversely, if a person whose heart is controlled by vain desires and lusts remembers Allah, his or her remembrance does not settle in his or her heart, for Satan has already established himself therein.

The Solution

A person may experience the truth of this by observing his or her own Prayer, during which Satan keeps reminding him or her of worldly matters.

Out of Allah's mercy, this can be overcome: If a person, out of fear from the Creator, refrains from doing an evil thing that he or she has intended to do, it is written down for him or her as one good deed. But, if one has ultimately made up one's mind to do a certain evil deed, it is recorded against one as a sin.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, "When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell." He was then asked, "O Allah's Messenger! We understand why the murderer would go to Hell, but what about the murdered one?" The Prophet replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion." (Al-Bukhari)

Determination and keenness are condemned here because people's actions are judged according to their intentions; is it not that pride, hypocrisy, and ostentation are inner matters?

It was reported in a hadith that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to say, "O You Who [Allah] turns hearts, keep our hearts adherent to Your religion." (Authenticated by Al-Albani)

The Prophet is also reported to have said, "The heart is like a feather that the wind turns over in a desert." (Authenticated by Al-Albani)

May Allah help us and make our heart alwaysin remembrance of HIM and inclined towards doing good.

At last, nothing for Javalove but wait o, who am I seeing, Javaprince. Na lie e no go work, if you like, go summon all the java of the world to come here, OYO (On Your own) for you

@Negro


You are welcome on board and I am very sure you must have been following this very thread. Since you support trinity and would have noticed that most of the prophecies and verses wrongfully attributed to Jesus have been refuted and explained, you may give your own explanation and back same with verses from your bible and I would come in. You dont have to come with verses already refuted but may come with something new from your bible.

@Pastor A.I.O

I take it that you haven't heard of the Satanic Verses.

There are verses in which you wrongfully interpreted and these are the verses:

Q 53 V 19: : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,

Q 53 V 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?


Does the Quran actually state that Allah has three daughters?

Non-Muslims love quoting the above but forget to read the rest of the passage which sheds light on the allegation. Here are the remaining verses:

Q 53 V 21: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Q 53 V 22: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

Quran 53 v 23: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever[/b]). [b]They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [color=#990000][/color]

Very straight forward!

@Mukina

haaaa why u dey turn my post na

Am I. Am just expressing my feelings for you jare.

yeah but you know AW knows what he is doing . I was really sad. but hey someone will step up in to his shoes maybe

With Babs you odnt have to be sad unlike Javalove that has nothing to offer

what Nikkah? urs? oh really? please invite me o,. so i can send gifts for you and your wife

No need of inviting you. Its between you and I (Ours). Dont mind that Javalove. He is an intruder

@Lady

"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." (John 3:13-21).

Madam, was Jesus really the only son? the above means believing in Jesus as a prophet sent to the house of Israel and not what christians have been preaching.

"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26).

"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God." (Romans 5:1-2).
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1).
"And Jesus stopped, and commanded him to be brought to him; and when he came near, he asked him, 'What do you want me to do for you?' He said, 'Lord, let me receive my sight.' And Jesus said to him, 'Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.' And immediately he received his sight and followed him, glorifying God; and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God." (Luke 18:40-43).
"And he went about Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every infirmity among the people. So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them." (Matthew 4:23-24).
"Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?' And Jesus answered them, 'Go and tell John what you hear and see; the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offence at me.'" (Matthew 11:2-6).
"That evening they brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, 'He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.'" (Matthew 8:16-17).

Sister, there is nowhere Jesus said he came to die for anybody's sin and all you quoted are from those that didnt know him and contradicted themselves in some areas.

Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? Cos he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:

Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:

Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

The doctrine of man’s inherited sinfulness can be said, without slightest doubt, a doctrine never preached by the earlier biblical prophet but an idea of some later biblical characters (eg Paul). They at the same time, contradicted themselves on what they have raised somewhere else in the same bible. The two following quotations will easily disprove that, men are sinners or that man inherited sin from his parent.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself.
OR

Romans 14v12: so then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

It therefore implies that the idea “none is righteous no, not one (Roman 3v9-12) is a fabrication, a naked fantastic lies, that is propagated with ignorance and fantasy.

The following passages shows that some people are righteous and never born with any inheritable sin.

Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.
Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.
Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.
1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.
Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man
Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc

If we hold the word “how then can men be righteous before God? How can one who is born of a woman be clean (job 25v4) etc, to be true, then the passage will create more problem, because one Jesus is born from a woman, then Jesus could not be clean either judging from that assertion.

Two, if Jesus is born by a woman, then he would be said to have inherited the original sin from his mother.[/b]

Three, [b]if the word “ all have sinned” be taken to its full length, Jesus would be included among the “all” because he is born of a woman.

However, in all manner of consideration, if the original sin is inherited and children are born into sin, Jesus would not have awarded “innocence” and “pure” state to them, neither would he have said in,

Mathew 18v3: and said, verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdon of heaven.

OR

Mark 10v15: verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter heaven.

If all of us are born sinner because of Adam’s sin, then it portrayed God as one inflicting the punishment of a criminal to one who is not. This is equal to injustice. But our God is not unjust as in[/color]

Deuteronomy 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be put to death for the father’s, every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

OR

1st Corinthians 3v8: how he that planted and he that watered are one, and every man shall receive his own reward according to his labour.

However, this doctrine of Blood Atonement created by the church, three to four centuries after Jesus left the earth contradicts the bible as in the above passages.

Prophecy predicting the name of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken ye people from far, the Lord has called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother has he made mention of my name. And he has made my mouth like a sharp sword; , I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation (Hebrew = Yeshua, the actual name of Jesus, when he lived in Israel) unto the end of the earth. Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despises, to whom the nation abhors." (Isaiah 49: 1-3; 6-7)

I have told you on several occasion to understand biblical passage before giving it to me. The verses in question do not in any refer to Jesus but Isaiah and about what God told Isaiah and here are the verses

ISAIAH 49


1
Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the LORD called me; from my birth he has made mention of my name.


[color=#990000]Was God not referring to Isaiah?[/b]

2
He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

[b]Isaiah still talking above[/color]

God told Isaiah:
3
He said to me, "You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor."

[color=#990000]Isaiah then said: [/b]
4
But [b]I said, "I have labored to no purpose; I have spent my strength in vain and for nothing. Yet what is due me is in the LORD's hand, and my reward is with my God."

5
And now the LORD says— he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength-

The above also show Isaiah talking and please is Jesus a servant?[/color] Did Jesus bring back any Jacob?

6
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

From the above, we can still see that God was referring to Isaiah and not Jesus.[color=#990000]

7
This is what the LORD says— the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel— to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the servant of rulers: "Kings will see you and rise up, princes will see and bow down, because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you."

Did the above happen to Jesus? Sister come off it, God was talking to Isaiah and not your thinking that it was for Jesus, far from that.[/b]

Fulfilment: The Angel told Joseph:
"She (Mary) shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).

Are you a Jew?

Prophecy of Jesus' humble entry to Jerusalem on a donkey:
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, your king comes to you, he is just and having salvation; lowly and riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass (donkey). (Zechariah 9:9).

Na lie, you dont just take a verse out of context, read the full verses here:

1 The word of the LORD is against [b]the land of Hadrach and will rest upon Damascus— for the eyes of men and all the tribes of Israel are on the LORD

2 and upon Hamath too, which borders on it, and upon[b] Tyre and Sidon[/b], though they are very skillful.

3 Tyre has built herself a stronghold; she has heaped up silver like dust, and gold like the dirt of the streets.

4 But the Lord will t[b]ake away her possessions and destroy her power on the sea, and she will be consumed by fire[/b].

5 Ashkelon will see it and fear; Gaza will writhe in agony, and Ekron too, for her hope will wither. Gaza will lose her king and Ashkelon will be deserted[/b].

6 [b]Foreigners will occupy Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.

7 I will take the blood from their mouths, the forbidden food from between their teeth. Those who are left will belong to our God and become leaders in Judah, and Ekron will be like the Jebusites.

8 But I will defend my house against marauding forces. Never again will an oppressor overrun my people, for now I am keeping watch.

9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

Mind you, this happened before Jesus was born.[/b]

10 I will take [b]away the chariots from Ephraim and the war-horses from Jerusalem, and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to the nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.

Was there anything called Ephraim during Jesus time? and did they fight any war?

11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

12 Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope; even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.

13 I will bend Judah as I bend my bow and fill it with Ephraim. I will rouse your sons, O[b] Zion, against your sons, O Greece, and make you like a warrior's sword.[/b]

Fulfilment:
"And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, 'Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. If any one says anything to you, you shall say, 'The Lord has need of them', and he will send them immediately.' This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass.'
The disciples went and did what Jesus had directed them; they brought the ass and the colt, and put their garments on them, and he sat thereon. Most of the crowd spread their garments on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before him and that followed him shouted, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!'" (Matthew 21:1-9).

Na lie, the above prophecy wasnt for Jesus and I gave you all to see. It happened during the time of Ephraim's reign. Most of the verses you linked to Jesus have been posted and refuted here,

Prophecy of the betrayal of Jesus:
"Yea, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted , has lifted up his heel against me." (Psalm 41:9).

Sister, this verse has nothing to do with Jesus but it was David talking and here are the verses:

1 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.

2 The LORD will protect him and preserve his life; he will bless him in the land and not surrender him to the desire of his foes.

3 The LORD will sustain him on his sickbed and restore him from his bed of illness.

David said:

4 I said, "O LORD, have mercy on me; heal me, for I have sinned against you."

Still talking:

5 My enemies say of me in malice, "When will he die and his name perish?"

David still talking:

6 Whenever one comes to see me, he speaks falsely, while his heart gathers slander; then he goes out and spreads it abroad.

7 All my enemies whisper together against me; they imagine the worst for me, saying,

His enemies said:

8 "A vile disease has beset him; he will never get up from the place where he lies."

David said:

9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.

He prayed to God:

10 But you, O LORD, have mercy on me; raise me up, that I may repay them.

11 I know that you are pleased with me, for my enemy does not triumph over me.

12 In my integrity you uphold me and set me in your presence forever.

"And I said to them, if you think good, give me the price, and if not forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me: cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prized at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." (Zechariah 11:12-13).

Just like I have been telling you, do not lift a verse out of context. The verse has nothing to do with Jesus or Judas. You were deceived because they mentioned 30 pieces of silver but you forgot to read the story from the beginning and here it is and note my highlighted words:

1 Open your doors, O Lebanon, so that fire may devour your cedars!

2 Wail, O pine tree, for the cedar has fallen; the stately trees are ruined! Wail, oaks of Bashan; the dense forest has been cut down!

3[b] Listen to the wail of the shepherds;[/b] their rich pastures are destroyed! Listen to the roar of the lions; the lush thicket of the Jordan is ruined!

NOW read from here for understanding[/color]

4 This is what the LORD my God says: "[color=#006600]Pasture the flock marked for slaughter.

5 Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, 'Praise the LORD, I am rich!' Their own shepherds do not spare them.

6 For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land," declares the LORD. "I will hand everyone over to his neighbor and his king. They will oppress the land, and I will not rescue them from their hands."

Read for concentration please:[/color]

7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then [color=#990000]I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock.

8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds. The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them

9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

11 It was revoked on that day, and[b] so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD. [/b]


It keeps getting interesting, please watch out:[/color]

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me [color=#990000]thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 Then the LORD said to me, "Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd.

Self explanatory!![/color]

Fulfilment:
"Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. And when they heard it they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought an opportunity to betray him.
And when it was evening he came with the twelve. And as they were at the table eating, Jesus said, 'Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.' They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, 'Is it I?' He said to them, 'It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. For the Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.' , Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, 'The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him and lead him away under guard.' And when he came, he went up to him at once, and said, 'Master!' And he kissed him. And they laid hands on him and seized him." (Mark 14:10-11, 17-21, 43-46).
"When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he (Jesus) was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying 'I have sinned in betraying innocent blood.' They said, 'What is that to us? See to it yourself.' And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, 'It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since they are blood money.' So they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day." (Matthew 27:3-.

It has no relationship Madam. Read for understanding and not picking out of context.

Prophecy of Jesus' mishandling at His "trial":
"I gave my back to the smiters and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I did not hide my face from shame and spitting." (Isaiah 60:6).

Read please:

1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.

2 See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you.

3 Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn.

4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you: All assemble and come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are carried on the arm.

5 Then you will look and be radiant, your heart will throb and swell with joy; the wealth on the seas will be brought to you, to you the riches of the nations will come.

6 Herds of camels will cover your land, [color=#990000]young camels of Midian and Ephah. And all from Sheba will come, bearing gold and incense and proclaiming the praise of the LORD. [/b]

7 [b]All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you, the rams of Nebaioth will serve you; they will be accepted as offerings on my altar, and I will adorn my glorious temple.

COULD this be for Jesus, far from that![b][/b]

Fulfilment:
"They answered, 'He deserves death.' Then they spat in his face, and struck him; and some slapped him, saying 'Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?" (Matthew 26:6S67). "one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand." (John 18:22).

No relationship at all.

Prophecy of the suffering and death by crucifixion of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"When we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and we hid our faces from him: he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the punishment that brought us peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, but the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living. For the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked (killed between two criminals!) (Na lie, you inserted this yourself) [/b]and [b]with the rich in his death (he was buried in the tomb of a wealthy man) (Na lie, it was your own idea), [color=#990000][/color]because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He has put him to grief: When you shall make his soul an offering (sacrifice) for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many (not ALL!), for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his soul unto death and was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53).

Note my highlighted words therein.

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my rearing? , All that see me laugh at me to scorn, they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying: He trusted on the Lord. But you are he, who took me out of the womb. You made me hope, when I was upon my mother's breast , They gaped upon me with their mouths as a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax. It is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd and my tongue cleaves to my jaws and you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have encompassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet - I may count all my bones; they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them and cast lots upon my vesture." (Psalm 22:1, 7-9, 13-18).

The above calls for attention as well.

Fulfilment:
"Jesus answered, 'My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.' Pilate said to him, 'So you are a king? Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. For this I was born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness of the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.' Pilate said to him: 'What is truth?' After he had said this, he (Pilate) went out to the Jews again, and told them, I find no crime in him. But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover; will you have me release for you the King of the Jews? They cried out again, 'Not this man, but Barabbas!' Now Barabbas was a robber.
Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe; they came up to him, saying, 'Hail, King of the Jews!' and struck him with their hands. Pilate went out again, and said to to them, 'See, I am bringing him out to you, that you may know that I find no crime in him.' So Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, 'Behold the man!'
When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, 'Crucify him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no crime in him.' The Jews answered him, 'We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God.' When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid; he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, 'Where are you from?' But Jesus gave no answer. Pilate therefore said to him, 'You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?' Jesus answered him, 'You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.'
Upon this Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, 'If you release this man, you are not Caesar's friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar.' When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgement seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, 'Behold your King!' They cried out, 'Away with him, away with him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Shall I crucify your King?' The chief priests answered, 'We have no king but Caesar.' Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.
So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called the place of the skull, which is called in Hebrew Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them. Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the cross; it read, 'Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.' Many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews then said to Pilate, 'Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'This man said, I am King of the Jews.' Pilate answered, 'What I have written I have written.'
When the soldiers had crucified Jesus they took his garments and made four parts, one for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was without seam, woven from top to bottom; so they said to one another, 'Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.' This was to fulfill the scripture, 'They parted my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.'
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own house.
After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the scripture), 'I thirst.' A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished'; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Since it was the day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him; but when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. He who saw it has borne witness-his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth - that you also may believe. For these things took place that the scripture might be fulfilled, 'Not a bone of him shall be broken.' And again another scripture says, 'They shall look on him whom they have pierced.' (John 18:36 - 19:37).

Prophecy of the resurrection of Jesus:
"I have set the Lord always before me, because he is at my right hand I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices. My flesh also shall rest in hope, for you will not leave my soul in hell (here 'sheol' = underworld, grave), neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:8-10).

Fulfilment:
"But on the first day of the 'week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living among the dead? Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise.' And they remembered his words, and returning from the tomb they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles; but these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them." (Luke 24:1-11).

I have to leave campus. I'll be back another day. So I hope this is enough for now. But if you will please wait for me to finish responding. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Na lie. You gave wrong interpretation to the verses which I have refuted. They didn not refer to Jesus at all.

@Mukina

who is this friend? tell me now

Oh thanks so much for that. Dont let this Javalove try to separate us.

Prepare for?? take ya time ooooo

I love that. I am really taking my time preparing for the occasion

una nor well o I was really sad lol Gilberto left its sad but you guys made me laff . here's one for both of you

Yes I am not happy too and I dont know why the man sold him since we dont have 4 again. I am beginning to think that nothing for us this season if this man didnt buy players especially striker and we lack substitute as well meaning that once any of the first 11 players get injured, there would be no possible replacement and I am thinking that the man would use the combination of Fabregas, Rosicky, Nasri and maybe Song.
All the same, no shaking for our Nikkah. I even have a surprise package for you. It would be a new Life and a new house

@Javalove


Kai I don miss no be small. Do you think you can change her decision of marrying me despite the fact that I am not around.

Hey, the dentity of a Tiger is not his application to Hegimony, so timidy is not a symbol of majentility meaning 'yiyo ekun bi ti ojo ko'

Let me quickly treat your posts

babs u dey hear?

Wetin be dat? Oh, you mean that she is preparing for the Nikkah? I never knew that you are aware of the preparation.

fear no dey catch house owner when he dey inside his house now.

Dont you know that the fear of Omo Onile is the beginning of wisdom? The fear of em wetin be this guy name sef, ok Babatunde Fasola, the fear of him (landlords) is the beginning of wisdom or else he would tell them to bring down your house, that it is built on carnal

u and i know say na game u dey follow babs play.

Ok, siddon there dey watch. You are going to be one of my RSVP and I do hope you are not having HBP because the occasion is going to be one in town. Like play, like play, Arsenal thrashed AC Milan 2- 0. I hope it wont take long before you realise the truth. Joseph the dreamer

when time reach, it would be smile all the way for me. @babs don't worry, u don't need an IV to attend our nikkah.

Which Nikkai, ask Mukina and she would tell you that she is really preparing to start a new life with babs. Mind you, I will not allow you to relate with her as you are doing now. Our special wedding ring is on the way, so keep your fingers crossed. Brother Olabowale, Littleb, Subzeero, Mustay, Firdaus, Samba, Sister Ayinba, Sister Stranger, Mdsock, Frizy, Davidylan, Lady, Pilgrim, May Kelly and those too numerous to mention woulod grace the occasion and we would receive ther special prayers to be read from the Holy Quran.

@mukina wats your choice of colors so i can send for the Aso-Oke dress, nice hijab with shoes to match. Dont worry, for my family we sabi take care of women well well. my mum can testify to that

Na wa o. Mukina, you can the one that says he is interested in you, asking for your choice of cloth when Babs already know that and the dress for that is on the way. Hope you are not trying to tell me that you do not her do's and dont's and you no shame to ask her in public.

You be man, so think and try getting what would be befitting. Come to me so that I would teach you colors that ladies trip for

i would love that, when my grandchildren would pursue me round d house like we r playing hide and seek. i would surely like that.

Which one is that? It is good that they would pursue you round your house but not our house (Mukina and I). Na you get your children, if dem like, dem fit play Tom and Jerry with you . It doesnt concenr Babs and Angel Mukina.

Home is where i am.

Haba, dont you know that Men keep house while women keep home. You need to come for lecture honestly. I can see that Mukina is seeing the difference between you and Babs.

so mukina aw r u doing. please don't stress yourself oooo and i hope u v eaten something. how was jumat today?

Wetin concern you? Are you planning to give her love medication if she has not eaten? Oga, take your time and do not trespass. It would not be good to be dealt a terrible blow in both ways: not having Mukina and still being punished for em em (lawyer in the house please help put correct grammar there)

Jaji, IM me

Na lie, it wont work. Go to search engine and look for the details . Just type Mukina and you have all info you may be needing (You would pay me for this free consultation o)

@mukina
Give "my friend" a trial.

Oh and that is why I love you as a brother. You have agreed that both of us should marry hence your 'give my friend a trial'. Thanks brother and you would be treated specially on that day.

that is what m talking about. my jumat was very good. lots of things

happened including a brother publicly announcing his kelimat shaada. i can tell u more. just IM me on smilewithjaji or visit www.jajitech.net to contact me.

Oga, it would not work. Alhamdulillah for the brother that found Islam.

@Lady


You should have broken it down for me to reply you. I browsed through your write up and saw that answers have been provided in some of the threads and most of the verses you gave have been given rebuttal by myself. Those verse you gave up do not in any way refer to Jesus.

Three the concept of the Trinity is in the Bible. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the words of Christ:
Matthew 28:19
18 TheN Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY SPIRIT.
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. ANd behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.

Now is there no difference between 'in the namne of the father, son, holy spirit and God of the father, the son and Holy Spirit?

The Trinity consists of the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT.

The Trinity known in the Old Testament:

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
The concept of the majestic "we" does not lie in Christianity, so please don't bring that crap into Christianity, leave it in Islam.

So sister, who was God speaking to when he said that? Who was with him?

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and
take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

How does this relates to trinity? Was God referring to Jesus?

Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who
will go for us?"

You don't have to pick a verse out of context, you have been accusing Muslims of this but I have found that Christians have been guilty of this.

Now let see if the verse referred to Jesus. In order to get the clearer picture, I would take it from the beginning for better understanding:

Isaiah 6 (King James Version)


1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.


The above verse referred to when King Uzziah died and there was nobody called Jesus then.. This was Isaiah[color=#006600] talking.[/color][/b]

2
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

4
And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

[b]Isaiah[color=#006600] still talking:[/color][/b]

5
[b]Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

6
Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7
And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Now read. God asked Isaiah to tell the people:[/b]
8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, [b]Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. [/color]

[color=#990000]We can see from the above that God was asking Isaiah who to go and Isaiah said that he would to his people and should be mistaken for Jesus in which Christians have been erroneously attributing the verse to. Let us read further for understanding[/b]


9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

[b]Does the above has anything to do with Jesus?. What did God send Isaiah:

10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


Isaiah then asked:[/b]
11
[b]Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

12And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.


Did the above happen during Jesus' time?[/color]

13
But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

Did the above happen during Jesus' time? Hope you have seen that it has nothing to do with Jesus?[color=#990000]

LUK 1:35  The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the
power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will
be called the Son of God.

Son of God and not God, get that straight please.[/color]

This was before Christ the man walked the earth. The Holy Spirit already existed.
1 John 5:7 FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.

The above is in King James Version authorised in 1611 and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, 'the father, the word and the holy ghost; and these three are one' has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other bibles as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek test.[color=#990000]

I john 5 v 7 and 8 in the New American Standard Bible read as follows; 'and it is the spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement.[/b]

Also in the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness, you will find 'for there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement'. [b]

Here is my favorite:

John 17
Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you
2 just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3 Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do.
5 Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

I love especially verse 5. Jesus Christ has always been there. He didn't start existing when Mary birthed him. He existed before all that. He started existing in the human form when Mary birthed him, but in Spiritual form he has always been there.

Where did you see that he existed since creation? The above verses nailed that doctrine if truly you understand your bible. The glory he had doesnt mean that he was in existence since creation. Let me add few verses for you to comprehend that God sent him and God was far above him.

""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."    (Mark 10:18)"

He had no divine will:

Matthew 26 v 39:39.  Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."[/color]

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

He couldnt do anything by himself[color=#990000]
 
John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

He had no knowledge of the hour:[/color]

Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, [color=#990000]but only the Father."[/b]

"One of those days [b]Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  ( Luke 6:12)"

To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 6:101)"

Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.  (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"They say: 'God hath begotten a son' :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.  (The Noble Quran, 2:116)"

I know it's hard to comprehend that he has been there, because you only see Jesus as a human. You are looking for answers about him from when he was born, but Christ was begotten and not made. He is not as the creature humans, if so, he would have the human nature of sin. Which is what separates us from the Father.

Sister, I have dealt with this in one of my posts. Did God need to change, suffer himself for human being to understand him? I also gave you verses where God cannot never be a man

Jesus let it be known to the Pharisees that he existed with the Father before being born as a man of a woman.
John 8
24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

I AM, is not a regular "I am" like you and I would introduce ourselves saying "I am ~Lady, or I am Olabowale, or I am babs787"
No it is the name revealed to the Isrealites by GOD as his name. It is the name by which the Isrealites were able to know that Moses was sent from God:
Exodus 3
13 "But" said Moses to God, "when I go to the Isrealites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' if they ask me, 'What is his name?' what am I to tell them?"
14 God replied, "I AM WHO I AM" Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Isrealites: I AM sent me to you"

I AM WHO I AM is YAHWEH in english. It is by this that we know that Jesus is the I AM. The same I AM that sent Moses

.

Is there any proof to show that the statement ought to have been 'I AM GOD'. Mind you, I am could also mean 'I AM SENT BY GOD' etc. So your explanation has no solid backing.

Quote
The council of Nicea 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," the council of Ephesus 431 said that "human beings are totally depraved," the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God."

I am stil trying to see how these are contradictory of each other when it is exactly what the Christians believe.
1) That Jesus is God
2) That the Holy Spirit is God
3) That Jesus is truly man and truly God. He is the meeting place of man and God. The meeting place of the sinless and the sinful. He took on the form of a man wihtout taking on the nature of a man. He was seen physically as you and me can be seen, yet he is without the sinful nature that we both have. I know the Quran teaches that. More reason why I believe that Muhammad took what was in the Scriptures and agreed to what he could understand. But what he couldn't understand he condemned, because to him it makes no sense, just as it makes no sense to you and it made no sense to the Arians and the Goths. Oh by the way they are who we call heretics, so why it you see the need to use them to prove your point, I don't get. At least try using people that are not condemned or are held in high regards to the faith.

You also mentioned the Jews rejecting the Trinity, um hello, they rejected Christ. How do you expect them to accept the Trinity when they rejected Christ himself? Does that even make sense to you?
Which leads me again to touch on the point that Christ did preach that he was the Son of God. If he didn't preach that he was the Son of God, then the Jews wouldn't have called for his cricifixion. Well we both know that the Jews and Christians agree on this.
So how is it that Christ died for what he didn't preach again? I would like to receive an explanation of that. Thanks.

I noticed that you didnt include all that I post and below is the detailed quote:

Three centuries after Jesus, the corrupt emperor Constantine forced the minority opinion of the trinity upon the council of Nicea. The Christian church went downward from there; in fact some of the creeds and councils actually contradict each other. The council of Nicea 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," the council of Ephesus 431 said that "human beings are totally depraved," the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God." 

Since you claimed that Jews didnt accept Jesus let alone accepting the doctrine, below is a quote on early christians on the rejection of the doctrine.[/color]

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.[color=#990000]

Moreover, the 'Socinianism', the 17th-century Christian also rejects such traditional doctrines as the Trinity and original sin, the founder is Socinus, and his Latinized name of Lelio Francesco Maria Sozzini (1525-1562), the Italian Protestant theologian. 

You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.   ( John 14:28)"

Did you read the above? He was going to the father because the Father sent him and He is greater than him. Jesus couldnt change the will of God.

I believe you missed the part about Christ and the Spirit being subject to God. That is why I say that the Bible verses you quote are not contradicting the belief of the Trinity. If you knew what the concept is you won't find this to be contradictory. The Christ and the Spirit are subject to God in that they are his hands. They carry out his work. Christ is his word, as he speaks things become, those words that he spoke in the Old Testament, the commandments, laws, prophecy, and all that, is who we call Jesus Christ. He is the Word of God made flesh. He is nothing without God and does not exist without the existence of God, he exists along with God as we see that God still speaks. When God said "Let there be light" those very words are who we call Christ. When God said these are the commandments or the laws,  those very laws are who we call Christ. He is the word spoken out of the mouth of God. He became flesh. He became flesh because God is capable of it. That is why he is begotten and not made as we humans are made. that is why he didn't have to be born of a man and a woman. he had to be born of a woman because he needed to come in the form of a man, he needed that stock that man is made of so that he could become man. When a child is conceived the forming takes place in the mother's womb and not the father. Christ was formed into the physique of man from a woman's womb, but he did not need the seed of a man to come into existence. Why? Because he already existed.

You claimed that he was begotten and not made like Human beings. What about other prophets in the bible that were begotten?  There is nowhere that shows that he exited since creation. What do you have to say to these that were begotten as well:

Hebrew 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

Psalms 2:7: "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

QURAN 4:171: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”

The Spirit is God's Spirit of all things I would think this is the easiest to grab and understand. Since we know that you can't exist without your Spirit. The Spirit is the Wisdom of God, he is the one that spoke through the prophets the Word (whom we call Christ). He existed along with the father and is the one that inspired the prophets and assisted the prophets. He is the one that filled the prophets and made them worthy men of God.

Sister, how did the word become Jesus . Have you forgotten that the holy spirit is the angel that God uses to send message to his prophets.  The 'be', you referred to is[b] Kufayah Kun[/b]. Whe God desires somehing, he would just say Be and it would be.

These are who we call the hands of God. They carry out the commands of God. Just as when we are born our hands are not separated from our body and are together with our body, so are these together with God. Our hands did not form later on in our life, they existed from the beginning of our existence that is how the Word and the Spirit exist as God exists. They did not form later on as you believe. No they have always been there. That is the belief of the Trinity. Just as we are identified by our fingerprints so is God identified by his (the WORD and the SPIRIT).

You have always viewed it from the angle of oh well he's human and he was born on so and so date so therefore he didn't exist until that date. Well he existed before then and that's what makes him so different from us humans. Our existence began when we were being formed in our mother's womb. His began from the beginning and as God and not from when Mary said yes and gave birth to him.

Nothing shows that he existed before.

Same with the Spirit. He didn't start existing when Christ spoke of him to come as our advocate, but from the beginning and as God.

No, you got it wrong. The advocate couldnt have been the holy spirit because you yourself cofirmed that the holy spirit has been in existence since creation.

Quote
Now if truly he came to die for your sins, why didnt he come immediately Adam and Eve committed the sin but had to wait thousand of years after prophets were sent to preach the oneness of God but you couldnt attempt that.

Could it be that God had to prepare humans to receive him. Could it be that God had to set in motion his perfect plan for salvation. Could it be that God had to make sure that these humans were willing to accept God and have him as their God?
Geez ask God why it is he does what he does? Why did God need prophets in the first place? Why are you asking this silly question?

Why don't you have explanation for what you have been preachingthousands of years. This happen to be one of my reason for accepting the light (ISLAM) and this futher confirms what you have been preaching but couldnt defend. Muslims have not been treating you the same way you avoided my question up. You should be able to respond if you are so sure of yourself and not waiting for God to reply. It would always look silly to you because you have been programmed with this indefendable doctrine.

Quote
Is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

Here is where it is prophecied that Jesus will come and die for our sins.

Prophecy of Jesus' birthplace and pre-existence :
"But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days." (Micah 5:2).

Fulfillment:
"And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." (Luke 2:47).

Sister, I couldnt help laughing at this darkness Christians have put themselves into. Do Christians read bible for understanding at all or just listen to what leaders tell you? You don't just lift a verse out of context and in case you have been using the above to lure people into Christianity, I am telling you now that nairalanders are beginning to see the truth through various exposure of biblical verses in which they have been using to deceive people. Here is the verse in full and you tell me how it relates and speaks about Jesus:


Micah 5

1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof[/color]: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:[color=#990000]

13[b] Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.[/b]

14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.[/b]

[b]Note my highlighted words and please did they happen during Jesus' time?
Please don't go about giving me wrong verses because I will further expose the truth.
You have been seeing the truth, it is now left for you to accept it.[/color]

Prophecy of the virgin birth, divinity and unique sonship:
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (= God with us) (Isaiah 7:14).

Sister, don't go giving me wrong interpretation to biblical verses. Here are the verses in full and please tell me how they relate to Jesus?

Isaiah 7

1 During the reign of Ahaz son of Jotham and grandson of Uzziah, [color=#006600]Jerusalem was attacked by King Rezin of Aram and King Pekah of Israel, the son of Remaliah[/b]. [b]The city withstood the attack, however, and was not taken.

Hope you can see what led to the prophecy?

2 The news had come to the royal court: "Aram is allied with Israel against us!" So the hearts of the king and his people trembled with fear, just as trees shake in a storm.

Hope you understood the above?

3 Then the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go out to meet King Ahaz, you and your son Shear-jashub. You will find the king at the end of the aqueduct that feeds water into the upper pool, near the road leading to the field where cloth is bleached.[/b]

[b]God told Isaiah to meet King Ahaz

4 Tell him to stop worrying. Tell him he doesn't need to fear the fierce anger of those two burned-out embers, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah.[/b]

[b]King Ahaz was afraid of the attack on Jerusalem but God told Isaiah to look for him and tell him not to panick\

5 "Yes, the kings of Aram and Israel are coming against you. [color=#990000]They are saying,
6 `We will invade Judah and throw its people into panic. Then we will fight our way into Jerusalem and install the son of Tabeel as Judah's king.[/color][/b]'

[b]The attacker, King of Aram and Israel said the above but God said:

7 "But this is what the Sovereign LORD says: This invasion will never happen,
8 because Aram is no stronger than its capital, Damascus. And Damascus is no stronger than its king, Rezin. As for Israel, within sixty-five years it will be crushed and completely destroyed.

9 Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria. And Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah. You do not believe me? If you want me to protect you, learn to believe what I say."

10 Not long after this, the LORD sent this message to King Ahaz:[/b]

[b]It seems King Ahaz was not satisfied with what God said and God now told him to request for a sign:

11 "Ask me for a sign, Ahaz, to prove that I will crush your enemies as I have promised. Ask for anything you like, and make it as difficult as you want."[/b]

[b]But the king refused:

12 But the king refused. "No," he said, "I wouldn't test the LORD like that."

13 Then Isaiah said, "Listen well, you royal family of David! You aren't satisfied to exhaust my patience. You exhaust the patience of God as well!

Isaiah made the above statement and God now said to them with regards to King Ahz and the sign to show him:[/color]

14 All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel--`God is with us.'

Now, let us see if its for Jesus:[color=#990000]

15 By the time this child is old enough to eat curds and honey, he will know enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong.

Good, here it is, the prophecy ws not for him but the King because Aram and Israel attacked Jerusalem during the reign of King Ahaz and there [color=#000099]was nobody like Aram during Jesus' time but King Herod.[/color][/b]

16 But before he knows right from wrong, the [b]two kings you fear so much--the kings of Israel and Aram--will both be dead.

17 "The LORD will bring a terrible curse on you, your nation, and your family. You will soon experience greater terror than has been known in all the years since Solomon's empire was divided into Israel and Judah. The mighty king of Assyria will come with his great army!"

Did you see the above? Did any king of Assyria come during Jesus' time?
Was any terrible curse brought on the nation during his time?[color=#990000][/color]

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called 'Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.'". (Isaiah 9:6).

Fulfillment
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.' All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel' (which means, God with us). (Matthew 1:18-23).

I have given rebuttal to Isaiah 7 you interpreted wrongly. Let me quickly go to Isaioah 9 v 6

ISAIAH 9 V6

Most christians think that this prophesy was for Jesus, but we will read on to know if it was really for him.

Isaiah 9:6 - KJV
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6 - LITV
"For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Let me add from 7: of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to order it and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of host will perform this.

Having done the above, let me break the verse for you

Government shall be on his shoulder

Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?

John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants  fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king,

He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.


Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: ,  i can of mine do nothing.

So he is not the wonderful referred to here.


Counsellor/Comforter

The prophesy is not for him as we read jesus telling his disciples that he needed to go so as allow room for the COMFORTER TO COME. (john 16v5-7).

He was never allowed to talk, as a result of this, he told them that it was necessary for him to go so that the comforter would come (the last prophet) and 'when he come, he would tell you all things and guide you into all truth'.
Jesus was never a counsellor/Comforter.


The Mighty God

He was not the only one being referred to as God. Mind you, small 'g' is supposed to be used in John 1v1 but never mind I will still talk on that. Moses too was made god for Pharaoh. If you don't know, one of the thieves name crucificted together with jesus is called JESUS BARABAS. meaning that he was another God. Jesus was supposed to be named Immanuel, but was named Jesus instead. Have you tried finding the meaning of the word 'jesus'?.Jesus was never a God and will never be. Moses too was referred to as god for Pharaoh.


The Prince of Peace."

Is jesus really prince of peace? lets read the below verses

Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER.

Luke 12v49: ' I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED,  DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO. I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION FOR FROM HENCEFORTH in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

Was Jesus really prince of peace?

Lets read:

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Ezekiel 9:5-7
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Mathew 10 v 34:
Do not think that I have come to make peace on earth? I have not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother.

Luke 12 v 49:
I came to cast fire upn the earth, and would that it were already kindled. Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for from hencefortgh in one house there will be five divided, theee against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother.

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, , and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Genesis 38 v 7; But Er, Judah's first born was wicked in the sight of the Lord and the Lord killed him.

Prophecy concerning the time of his coming:
"Seventy weeks (of years, i.e 70 x7 years = 490 years) are determined upon thy people (Jews) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy (i.e. no more prophetic revelation added to the Bible after that), and to anoint the Most Holy (anoint = exalt, crown, dedicate, this is Christ). Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (which at that time was destroyed and its inhabitants were captives in Babylon) unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks (49 years) and sixty-two weeks (434 years): The streets shall be built again, and the wall, even in troubled times."
49 years were actually needed to rebuild Jerusalem after Nehemiah got the royal order by Artaxerxes (B.C. 465-425), which he gave in the 20th year of his reign (Nehemiah 2:1,8b), i.e. 445 B.C. The book of Nehemiah states that Jerusalem was indeed rebuilt in troubled times, since many enemies were trying to hinder this. The remaining 434 years bring us to the year A.D. 38. Although this is some years after the triumphant entry of Christ into Jerusalem we must consider the fact that.


a)
Historical dates of this time are not quite as accurate as they are in more recent history, due to the fact that there was no proper calendar and different lengths of a year (Israel had a lunar year of 354 days) and
b)
this described event does not fit any other happening in history and we must consequently conclude that the error is more likely to be found in history than in the Bible.

"And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple); and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
(The "prince that shall come" is no doubt Titus, the Roman conqueror and son of Emperor Vespasian who, after the death of the Messiah, came and destroyed Jerusalem and, against his will, the temple, in A.D. 70. After that "desolations are determined" and lasted until this present time!) (Daniel 9:24-26).

Biblical proof please?

Prophecy foretelling that he came to save and to heal:
"Behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." (Isaiah 35:4-5).

How does the above refer to Jesus/ Read for understanding please and not picking a verse out of context for me. It was not for Jesus Madam. OH I have seen, you thought it was for Jesus because we have the eyes of the blind shall be opened etc. Come off it, you need to study your bible harder.

This is the full verse for your understanding.

1 The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.        Like the crocus, 2 it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon; they will see the glory of the LORD, the splendor of our God. 3 Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way; 4 say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." 5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. 6 Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert. 7 The burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs.
In the haunts where jackals once lay, grass and reeds and papyrus will grow. 8 And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it. 9 No lion will be there, nor will any ferocious beast get up on it; they will not be found there. But only the redeemed will walk there, 10 and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them,       and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Fulfilment:
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).

Are you a Jew and in what way are you one of his people. He was rasied as a saviour for the house of the children of Israel and how does that affects you?

"For the Son of man came to seek and to save the lost." (Luke 19:10).

Thats for the house of Israel and not you a Nigerian.

"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." (John 3:13-21).
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26).
"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God." (Romans 5:1-2).
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1).
"And Jesus stopped, and commanded him to be brought to him; and when he came near, he asked him, 'What do you want me to do for you?' He said, 'Lord, let me receive my sight.' And Jesus said to him, 'Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.' And immediately he received his sight and followed him, glorifying God; and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God." (Luke 18:40-43).
"And he went about Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every infirmity among the people. So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them." (Matthew 4:23-24).
"Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?' And Jesus answered them, 'Go and tell John what you hear and see; the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offence at me.'" (Matthew 11:2-6).
"That evening they brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, 'He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.'" (Matthew 8:16-17).

Prophecy predicting the name of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken ye people from far, the Lord has called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother has he made mention of my name. And he has made my mouth like a sharp sword; ,  I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation (Hebrew = Yeshua, the actual name of Jesus, when he lived in Israel) unto the end of the earth. Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despises, to whom the nation abhors." (Isaiah 49: 1-3; 6-7)

Fulfilment: The Angel told Joseph:

"She (Mary) shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).

Prophecy of Jesus' humble entry to Jerusalem on a donkey:
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, your king comes to you, he is just and having salvation; lowly and riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass (donkey). (Zechariah 9:9).

Fulfilment:
"And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, 'Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. If any one says anything to you, you shall say, 'The Lord has need of them', and he will send them immediately.' This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass.'
The disciples went and did what Jesus had directed them; they brought the ass and the colt, and put their garments on them, and he sat thereon. Most of the crowd spread their garments on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before him and that followed him shouted, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!'" (Matthew 21:1-9).

Prophecy of the betrayal of Jesus:
"Yea, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted ,  has lifted up his heel against me." (Psalm 41:9).
"And I said to them, if you think good, give me the price, and if not forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me: cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prized at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." (Zechariah 11:12-13).

Fulfilment:
"Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. And when they heard it they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought an opportunity to betray him.
And when it was evening he came with the twelve. And as they were at the table eating, Jesus said, 'Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.' They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, 'Is it I?' He said to them, 'It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. For the Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.' ,  Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, 'The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him and lead him away under guard.' And when he came, he went up to him at once, and said, 'Master!' And he kissed him. And they laid hands on him and seized him." (Mark 14:10-11, 17-21, 43-46).
"When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he (Jesus) was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying 'I have sinned in betraying innocent blood.' They said, 'What is that to us? See to it yourself.' And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, 'It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since they are blood money.' So they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day." (Matthew 27:3-.

Prophecy of Jesus' mishandling at His "trial":
"I gave my back to the smiters and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I did not hide my face from shame and spitting." (Isaiah 60:6).

Fulfilment:
"They answered, 'He deserves death.' Then they spat in his face, and struck him; and some slapped him, saying 'Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?" (Matthew 26:6S67). "one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand." (John 18:22).

Prophecy of the suffering and death by crucifixion of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"When we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and we hid our faces from him: he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the punishment that brought us peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, but the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living. For the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked (killed between two criminals!) and with the rich in his death (he was buried in the tomb of a wealthy man), because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He has put him to grief: When you shall make his soul an offering (sacrifice) for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many (not ALL!), for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his soul unto death and was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53).

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my rearing? ,  All that see me laugh at me to scorn, they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying: He trusted on the Lord. But you are he, who took me out of the womb. You made me hope, when I was upon my mother's breast ,  They gaped upon me with their mouths as a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax. It is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd and my tongue cleaves to my jaws and you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have encompassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet - I may count all my bones; they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them and cast lots upon my vesture." (Psalm 22:1, 7-9, 13-18).

Fulfilment:
"Jesus answered, 'My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.' Pilate said to him, 'So you are a king? Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. For this I was born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness of the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.' Pilate said to him: 'What is truth?' After he had said this, he (Pilate) went out to the Jews again, and told them, I find no crime in him. But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover; will you have me release for you the King of the Jews? They cried out again, 'Not this man, but Barabbas!' Now Barabbas was a robber.
Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe; they came up to him, saying, 'Hail, King of the Jews!' and struck him with their hands. Pilate went out again, and said to to them, 'See, I am bringing him out to you, that you may know that I find no crime in him.' So Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, 'Behold the man!'
When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, 'Crucify him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no crime in him.' The Jews answered him, 'We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God.' When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid; he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, 'Where are you from?' But Jesus gave no answer. Pilate therefore said to him, 'You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?' Jesus answered him, 'You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.'
Upon this Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, 'If you release this man, you are not Caesar's friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar.' When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgement seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, 'Behold your King!' They cried out, 'Away with him, away with him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Shall I crucify your King?' The chief priests answered, 'We have no king but Caesar.' Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.
So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called the place of the skull, which is called in Hebrew Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them. Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the cross; it read, 'Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.' Many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews then said to Pilate, 'Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'This man said, I am King of the Jews.' Pilate answered, 'What I have written I have written.'
When the soldiers had crucified Jesus they took his garments and made four parts, one for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was without seam, woven from top to bottom; so they said to one another, 'Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.' This was to fulfill the scripture, 'They parted my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.'
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own house.
After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the scripture), 'I thirst.' A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished'; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Since it was the day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him; but when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. He who saw it has borne witness-his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth - that you also may believe. For these things took place that the scripture might be fulfilled, 'Not a bone of him shall be broken.' And again another scripture says, 'They shall look on him whom they have pierced.' (John 18:36 - 19:37).

Prophecy of the resurrection of Jesus:
"I have set the Lord always before me, because he is at my right hand I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices. My flesh also shall rest in hope, for you will not leave my soul in hell (here 'sheol' = underworld, grave), neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:8-10).

Fulfilment:
"But on the first day of the 'week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living among the dead? Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise.' And they remembered his words, and returning from the tomb they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles; but these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them." (Luke 24:1-11).

I have to leave campus. I'll be back another day. So I hope this is enough for now. But if you will please wait for me to finish responding. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I will continue on all these when I have the time. But my response has answered most of what you posted here.

@Olaadegbu

We know that Atheists find it difficult to understand the supernatural while the Muslims amongst other religious adherents find it difficult to comprehend the triune nature of God.

Nobody is finding it difficulot to understand but you have not been able to back your doctrine with verses and on that. Most of the verses linked to it have been refuted and you were asked some questions in some of posts in which you ignored.

@Javalove

mukina, do u think this guy would make a good husband. i said i would cry, he's not even moved for his muslim brother, he said i should go aheah. anyway, no need to cry anymore because reading between the lines, mukina is mine

You happened to be my competitor so why should I worry for your crying in a big bowl. It further shows that you are not brave enough to have her. Must you cry jst because you are beubg disqualified? No, just re-strategise and cme out with somethung beautiful and not your ekun iyawo . She is not even yours because you have been disqualified.

mukina see another one oooo. Shebi i told u this guy is not bold. So all the friend thing was a like-joke or joke-lie. He wants u but too shy to say it. For lying, this guy should be disqualified. !!!! You can't use a lying means to arrive at a trithful end, e no go work.

No brother. I am planning to give her to my friend but you felt that am trying to work my way, so I decided to push you to the corner by feigning that she would be mine. My friend too read the posts and felt satisfied with the posts.
Mind you, we are both gunners for life

mukina didnt i tell u there is no friend anywhere This guy no sabi toast!!! come for lessons,

Oga, do you think I am toasting her. I have been telling you the truth. I dont waste time if I want to toast any lady of my choice and Mukina knows me and my capability as well. You have been disqualified oga . No amount of twisting can make her consider you.

RedHotchic is stil available if you still need somebody huh, pele

u dey call person wey never tell u yes "Baby". All i need is for mukina to agree with her heart, and i would have u sued for calling another man's property "Baby". Take time ooo

Oh, you have admitted the the battle is over and she is now another man' princess. So take heart and try again next time and thanks for admitting defeat :Dont you know that silence means acceptance in the law court. Oga just pray for the husband and Wife.

kai , d only times i recite the whole quran are in the Ramadan's. If thats what is needed for u to say yes, mukina, may Allah make it easy for me the next Ramadan which is some weeks away!!!

See yourself again. So you recite it once in a blue moon. You promised to recite the full Quran if she agrees only for you to dump it after the Nikkah. You are also waiting to recite the whole Quran in the coming Ramadhan. Khai, you be really lazy man oo

so mukina u see how babs has intellihently disqualified himself. I know u v said yes in your heart, all i need do now is get my passport stamped and with u i will be. your commitments to d will of Allah and his messenger, Your good sense of poetry, and your VIRTUAL beauty which i sense r enough xterisitcs to make me want to have u. If having u is a reward from Alah, then i surely want to be in Firdaus. You can play the mukina-babs game, i don't mind, because i know u would eventually come home!!!!

See esa (flatery). Nothing for you, you no go fit carry im load. . Like play like play, Mukina don dey prepare for the occasion. You would even be one of the special guests and on that day, Arsene Wenger would be on the high table to grace the occasion.

Gunners for life

@RedHotchic

God knows best. His ways are different from the ways of man and wht you are doing just now is human reasoning besides, what makes you think that mankind will appreciate what Jesus did for them if He(Jesus) came immediately after Adam and Eve? Again, God did destroy the world with flood and spared only Noah and his household.

Now since you ignored my question in which I know became too much for you to answer, here is another one. During Moses' time, sacrifice were made for remission of sin and you claimed that Jesus died for your sin hence no need for scrifice. Many prophets came before Jesus and After Moses, so what would be their fate since they didnt receive Jesus and he didnt wash them with his blood and what is the rationle behind his coming after lots of people have perished without him?

Did God need to change to human being in order to understand you?

Quote
John 3:16 which says " For God so love the world that He sent His only begotten son to die for our sins"

Haba, shou Shocked. Must you bend the scripture to satisfy yourself? Mind you, I have been reading the bible before you could ever think of that.

The verse says: For God so love the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him would not perish but have everlasting life.


Pele, that was a merger with Rom 5: 8 which says:
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

It can never be a merge because you quoted from a person that contradicted himself on his wy to damascus, he nailed most of Jesus' doctrine to the wall so that Gentile would accept him.

John 3 v 16 means that Whoever believes in Jesus as being a prophet from God, in his message would gain eternal life and not believes in his lleged death because he didnt die for you.

Paul used that to preach in order that you may believe him and in nother verse, he said, christ died and rose according to his own scripture showing that he preached so that you maay believe.

Hope you are seeing that you have not been able to answer my questions but dribbling around it

Quote
Isaiah 49:6
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Nowhere that shows that he died for your sin.

Didn't you ask for anywhere in the old testament where Jesus was mentioned or prophesied

?

Since you ignored that as well, the above verse did not in any way refer to Jesus.

Is Jesus christ the servant mentioned therein? (Christians believe that Jesus is God, son of God etc and that it is only Muslim that are servant/slave of God).

Wht tribe of Jacob did he restore?

Ws he made light for the Gentiles having forgotten verses where he said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Quote
Isaiah 7:14, “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”


That shows how much you know the bible. Jesus is also known as Emmanuel.
Matt 1:23: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel"

RedHotChich, Alhadulilllah for my being a Muslim. Christians use the above verse you quoted to tell people that it refers to Jesus while it didnt, God was speaking to King Ahaz about a sign to show him and has no relarionship with Jesus. I will now give you the full verses, read from the beginning and you would see that God was talking to King Ahaz and not a prophecy of Jesus. Please tke note of my highligted words and you would see that the prophecy has nothing to do with Jesus.


Isaiah 7


1 During the reign of Ahaz son of Jotham and grandson of Uzziah, Jerusalem was attacked by King Rezin of Aram and King Pekah of Israel, the son of Remaliah. The city withstood the attack, however, and was not taken.

Hope you can see what led to the prophecy?

2 The news had come to the royal court: "Aram is allied with Israel against us!" So the hearts of the king and his people trembled with fear, just as trees shake in a storm.

Hope you understood the above?

3 Then the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go out to meet King Ahaz, you and your son Shear-jashub. You will find the king at the end of the aqueduct that feeds water into the upper pool, near the road leading to the field where cloth is bleached.

God told Isaiah to meet King Ahaz

4 Tell him to stop worrying. Tell him he doesn't need to fear the fierce anger of those two burned-out embers, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah.

King Ahaz was afraid of the attack on Jerusalem but God told Isaiah to look for him and tell him not to panick

5 "Yes, the kings of Aram and Israel are coming against you. They are saying,

6 `We will invade Judah and throw its people into panic. Then we will fight our way into Jerusalem and install the son of Tabeel as Judah's king.'

The attacker, King of Aram and Israel said the above but God said:

7 "But this is what the Sovereign LORD says: This invasion will never happen,

8 because Aram is no stronger than its capital, Damascus. And Damascus is no stronger than its king, Rezin. As for Israel, within sixty-five years it will be crushed and completely destroyed.

9 Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria. And Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah. You do not believe me? If you want me to protect you, learn to believe what I say."

10 Not long after this, the LORD sent this message to King Ahaz:

It seems King Ahaz was not stisfied with what God said and God now told him to request for a sign:

11 "Ask me for a sign, Ahaz, to prove that I will crush your enemies as I have promised. Ask for anything you like, and make it as difficult as you want."

But the king refused:

12 But the king refused. "No," he said, "I wouldn't test the LORD like that."

13 Then Isaiah said, "Listen well, you royal family of David! You aren't satisfied to exhaust my patience. You exhaust the patience of God as well!

Isaiah made the above statement and God now said to them with regards to King Ahz and the sign to show him:

14 All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel--`God is with us.'

Now, let us see if its for Jesus:

15 By the time this child is old enough to eat curds and honey, he will know enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong.

Good, here it is, the prophecy ws not for him but the King because Aram and Israel attacked Jerusalem during the reign of King Ahaz and there ws nobody like Arm during Jesus' time but King Herod.


16 But before he knows right from wrong, the two kings you fear so much--the kings of Israel and Aram--will both be dead.

17 "The LORD will bring a terrible curse on you, your nation, and your family. You will soon experience greater terror than has been known in all the years since Solomon's empire was divided into Israel and Judah. The mighty king of Assyria will come with his great army!"

Did you see the above? Did any king of Assyria come during Jesus' time?
Was any terrible curse brought on the nation during his time?

Let me stop here having established the truth:

20 In that day the Lord will take this "razor"--these Assyrians you have hired to protect you--and use it to shave off everything: your land, your crops, and your people.

Micah 5:2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Your problem is that you lack the holy spirit to aid your understanding. You clearly mix up literal and figrative meanings together.

Sister, l believe my growing up then as a christian and learning doctrines have a purpose and here we are seeing the reason. You don't just pick a verse in isolation but read the full context to grab the meanaing.

The above verse just like the one I supplied up, is being used to deceive non-christians into believing that its for Jesus but looking closely, one would see that its not for Jesus. Let us have the fulll verses in chapter 5:

From KJV
Micah 5

1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.


10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

Note my highlighted words and please did they happen during Jesus' time?
Please don't go about giving me wrong verses because I will further expose the truth.
You have been seeing the truth, it is now left for you to accept it.

Ask the holy spirit to possess you andclear your understanding of the scriptures.

You should be bold enough to answer questions afterall I have not been telling you to seek elsewhere for solution to questions. That further exposes the truth about Islam

Jesus' case was an exception because he's God himself. Tell me, did mohammad also ascend into heaven like Jesus did without dying?

We are on Jesus and if you want to discuss Muhammad (saw), then create a thread separately and we deal rather than diverting topic. There is a thread on that already tagged 'TRINITY, HELP ME'. You can go there and learn more about Jesus.

Did he beg and cry to himself to save him?
Why was he having no knowledge of the end time?
Why did he cry to himself on the alleged cross that, my God, why has thou forsakwn me?"

1) What is the major difference between the Shi'a and Sunni muslims?

You caan always educate yourself through search engine and if you care to know, they read the saame Quran. How does that relate to the topic?

2) What is the meaning of observing the  five pillars in islam?

I gave you that in my response to Pastor AIO and you were served same here. You only need to scroll down and read for exposure.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-150020.0.html

3) Are you guys trying to avoid the jihad question? I am yet to be replied on the exact meaning of jihad and why some moslems misinterpret it?

Go to this link and read:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-146930.0.html

Answer these questions joo and let me know when you want to rededicate your life to Christ.

Why do you keep deceiving yourself when it is glaring that you would gain nothing by dying as a christian. You couldnt even attempt  a single question out of all I asked you. It is never too late for you to accept the truth (Islam).

I have been honest with you in which you have not and it is high time you examined yourself before you are being examined.

@Javalove

why r u doing me like this? i will cry ooooo.

Please cry. I have a big bowl here with me

its unfair oooo. disqualifying me doesn't mean i would relent in my efforts to snatch u away from babs.

So its not you and Babs' friend but you and Babs. Ok because you are dring me, Mukina is not answering you but Babs. You even disqualified yourself by using that yeye Ronaldo as your illustration. You better relent and look for your wife somewhere else because she has told you point blank that nothing for you

Dont mind him, there is no friend anywhere. he wants u for himself and that friend thing is metaphorical.

Ok if thats what you want, I will not give my friend again, but I myself would take over

me. i m brave and bold enough to tell u publicly i want u. babs is not.

What determines that? Brother, why wasting your time over already lost battle, you caused the disqualification yourself while Mukina Baby abd I remain true Gunners for life

As for the teams i mentioned. pele (sorry). olutayo abebi no vex. just tell me to denounce my club and be an arsenal fan and i will do that.

Its late to cry when the head is off. We do not need any new member again as we are already complete. You may try cheksie and meet Mustay to help you out. You also want to lure her by saying that you would change your club because of her, only for you to go back to your former club after the wedding but she knows that I remain a gunner till eternity.

my own kind lov for u no be hide and seek lov.

Says who? Na even hide and run sef

I'm sure you're smiling as you're reading this, a real proof that your heart has said YES, and u laughing now right?

Smiling ke? She is already annoyed with you for mentioning Ronaldo instead of Fabrepass, Nasri, Walcott etc.

Just type yes in your next post and i would read 3 suratul ikhlas for u. that is a bribe i know, but a good one innit?

You are not even worth her. How could you recite Suratul Ikhlas while your mate are reciting the whole Quran.!!

Mukina, you can see that he would be lazy if you marry him

babs keep off!!!!

Yes o. I am keeping off from you in order to have enough time for baby Mukina and probably making good arrangement for the coming ceremony

@Lady

The Trinity: The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
In simple terms the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.

"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.

Three centuries after Jesus, the corrupt emperor Constantine forced the minority opinion of the trinity upon the council of Nicea. The Christian church went downward from there; in fact some of the creeds and councils actually contradict each other. The council of Nicea 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," the council of Ephesus 431 said that "human beings are totally depraved," the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God."

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.   

How can this be?
The Son is called the Word of God and the Spirit is called the Spirit of God.
God cannot be separated from his Word and his Spirit. If so, then the question arises, who existed first? God, His Word or His Spirit?
God created heaven and earth out of his Word. The world came to be through the Word of God. God's Word existed with him and is subject to him.

Sister read your post again for better understanding. Jesus is God, God is God, Holy Spirit is God, yet they are not three but one and Jesus is subject to God (himself).

You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.  ( John 14:28)"

1 Corinthians 11:3: Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is YHWH [Jehovah or Yahweh]

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.  Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " 

Jesus is God's Word made flesh, why did the Word become flesh? Because of the sin of man. Sin separates man from God. God is the only one who is sinless and in his infinite love and mercy he came upon the earth as a man. He had to come of a woman whom herself is freed from sin as sinful cannot give birth to sinless, that is why Mary is full of grace as the angel greeted her.

Now if truly he came to die for your sins, why didnt he come immediately Adam and Eve committed the sin but had to wait thousand of years after prophets were sent to preach the oneness of God but you couldnt attempt that.

Is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

Does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

Jesus Christ was equally man and God.

He could never be. He made statements above showing that God is greater than him and sent him. In fact, a person that sends and the one being sent cannot be the same in which you agreed up when you said that Jesus is subect to God, he takes authority from God and cannot do his own will except that of God that sent him.

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

He is truly man and truly God. With him man and God come together in a union. He is the "meeting" place for man and God.
Why did he have to die?

He didnt die in the first place and there are verses in your bible suporting that (the 3 days and three nights prophecy, the only sign of Jonah (to be like Jonah), they didnt break his leg, he took vinegar that is suposed to have stimulating effect and very medicinal, he ate like human being etc after declaring that dead bodies are like spirit, his disciples were afraid of his resurrection, showing that they never believed in the resurrection story.

God IS not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19

"And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he IS not a man, that he should have regret." 1 Samuel 15:29

"I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath." Hosea 11:9

Does God need not take human form to understand human being?

T

o free us from sin. Sin is the barrier that separates us from God. God cannot look upon sin. When our first parents were created they were without sin. They could seek the face of God, but after disobedience they could no longer do so, because they now clothed themselves with sin. This disobedience had to be overturned and in so doing reconciling us to God. Taking us back to the image and likeness in which he made us. He made us in his likeness (without sin) now with Christ we can get back to that likeness (without sin).

Did you arrive at your own interpretation of the verse, 'let us make man in our own image and after our likeness?

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

I will respond below.

He made us in his image, of one body, functioning together, different parts but still of the same body and never separated. Gen 1:26 "Let us make man in our image (body, different parts but functioning together, head not separated from hands as hands not separated from leg, as legs not separated from heart), after our likeness (without sin).

"

The description “Our image” is purely a Jewish expression, it does not substantiate the trinity but is basically a plural of respect, grandeur in the Hebrew language.

"To whom will you compare me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared? (Isaiah 46:5)

To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? (Isaiah 46:5)

For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? (Psalms 89:6)


After our likeness you interpreted up does not mean what you infered but rather having the knowledge of Good and evil.

"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.  (Genesis 3:5)"

"and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. 
(Ephesians 4:24)"

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.   ( Exodus 7:1)"

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.  (, Zechariah 12:"

In short there is no one like God:

"Tomorrow," Pharaoh said. Moses replied, "It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God.   (Exodus 8:10)"

"There is no one holy [ Or no Holy One ] like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.  (1 Samuel 2:2)"

"For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD? Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings?  (Psalm 89:6)"

"Who is like the LORD our God, the One who sits enthroned on high,  (Psalm 113:5)"

With sin comes death, therefore Christ had to conquer death, he alone could do this by his own power because he alone is free from sin by his own power.

No way sister. He couldnt do anything by himself:

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.  Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' " 

He had to pray to the one who could save him three times and his seat were like thick blood. God now sent angel to strenghten him and when on the cross, he shouted to the one who could save him, 'my God, why has thou forsaken me'

With his resurrection he defeated sin, and as he resurrected so will we do, those who walk in his footsteps. We too will resurrect in the likeness of God (without sin).

He didnt die let alone resurrecting.

As he walked the earth he showed us how to live faithfully to his commandments. As he died on the cross he showed us how to accept sufferring and doing the will of the Father without complaint. As he resurrected he gave us hope of one day being reconciled with the Father. To be reconciled one has to be without sin, because God does not accept sin.
Walking in his footsteps---living faithfully, accepting sufferring, and dying in Christ. We have salvation to look forward to. We have resurrection without sin to look forward to, resurrecting without sin, we are reconciled fully with the Father, because the Father does not accept sin.

Once again, he didnt die let alone resurrecting.

How is it that Jesus is God?
Because he is sinless. God alone is sinless, that makes Christ God. God alone can defeat death by his own power, that makes Christ God. Christ is God's Word, God did not exist without his Word, clearly he communicated with humans through his word, so his word had to have existed along with him. The only one that can exist from beginning is God.
This is the mystery of the faith in the Trinity.

Sister, the similitude of Jesus is like that of Adam created from dust and He said 'Be and it was'. God is not Jesus and couldnt have been God. I have served you wnouigh biblical verses to go with.

Jesus has no knowledge of the season:

Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. (Mark 11:13

How is it that Holy Spirit is God?
Because it is the Spirit of God. He proceeds from the Father and the Son (the Word of God) he is at the commandment of the Father and the Son (the Word of God). He existed from the beginning along with the Father and the Son (WORD of God). He spoke through the Prophets. God's Spirit certainly did not start existing later on, it was always there. But was it made known to all, ofcourse not. Only a select few could know him, those select few being the Prophets. Those were the ones filled with the Spirit, those were the ones who could seek the face of God. Those were the ones who were worthy enough. But after the resurrection of the Son, who came to reconcile God with man, who broke the barrier that separates God from man (sin) all those who seek the Father through the Son receives the Spirit. The Spirit is now able to live within anyone who comes to the Father, through the Son.

Matthew 24 v 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

"But of that day or that hour no one knows, NOT EVEN the angels in heaven, NOR the Son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32

The Holy Spirit couldnt have been God because the Holy Spirit had little knowledge of many things.

It is clear that the Holy Spirit  possesses the same nature as the “angels in heaven”. The Greek word for “spirit” is pneuma, the Hebrew translation is ruach.

Who maketh[b] his angels spirits[/b]; his ministers a flaming fire:

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. (Psalms 104:4-5)

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14)

The word spirit is applied to angels; therefore the Holy Spirit is categorically an angel because he is also Spirit and not God.

The two are subject to the Father. The Father is the head and the Son and Spirit are the hands that carry out the Father's works. But we know that as we have our heads that do the thinking and our hands that do the work, our hands are not separated from us. We are one body. Just as the Father, the Son, the Spirit are one body, functioning together and never without each other.

The Holy Spirit is not All-knowing because only God is All-knowing; the NTimplicatively abolishes the trinity when Jesus distinguished the Holy Spirit:

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. (Luke 12:10)

I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:28)

According to these verses, the Holy Spirit is superior to Jesus, whatever sins against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, whereas sins against Jesus can be forgiven.

Muslims say that what is preached in the Gospel is not what Christ preached. Yet they agree that he was crucified. There is overwhelming evidence of his cricifixion, even the Jews agree and till this day still tell of it.

Now if you say he was crucified, why did he shout to God that why has thou forsaken me?

"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge;  That they said (in boast):  'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.'  But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.  Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise.  And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him  (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them.   (4:156-159)" 

Hebrew 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission."

Well question is if what the gospels speak of are not what preached then how is it that his crucifixion came to be. If Christ had not preached about being the Son of God and being one with God then he wouldn't have been crucified. To the Jews this was blaspheme. But since we know through history that Christ was crucified and the reason he was crucified (before Paul), then how could it be that he didn't preach what is written in the gospels?
It couldn't, therefore he did preach what was in the gospel. In so doing disproving that the Quran is correct.

But for a more detailed view on the Trinity I will do the following write up.


We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Hoy Spirit he was born of the virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


Will be back for more.

I don tire o. See sister, there is no proof that he was crucified even from your bible and we have verses shoeing that he wasnt from your book.

"They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.  (Quran 5:73)"

@RedHotchic

How can Abraham be a muslim when Islam only came into existence thousands of years after his death? Didn't Islam start at the 7th century? All I know is that Abraham/Abram practiced monotheism.

Abraham did come from Ur which happens to be part of Iraq.

Apart from the above showing that Abraham came from Iraq, I showed you verses showing that he was a muslim but you ignored those verses. Islam started before Muhammad (saw):

Quran 22 v 78: …It is he who named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran), that the Messenger (Muhammed saw) may be a witness over you and you be witness over mankind.

It was during his time (after the journey to heaven to bring the 5 compulsory daily prayers), Allah now completed Islam:

Quran 5 v 3 …This day! I have perfected your religion, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Prophets before Muhammad prayed as Muslims but didnt observe the five daily prayers but it was during his time that the prayers were made five and each prayer would get the reward of 10.

God did not give two prophets different religion but made us know that all prophets right from Adam practised the same religion which is Islam:

Quran 42 v 13: He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic monotheism) which He ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O Muhammed saw) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saying YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (i.e to do what it orders you to do practically) AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (religion)

Quran 2 v 130: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (Islamic monotheism) except him who befols himself. Truly, we chose him in this world and verily in the Hereafter, he will be among the righteous.

V 131: When His Lord said to him, ‘submit (i.e be a muslim). He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a muslim) to the Lord of the mankind, jinn and all that exists.

V 132: And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob (saying), ‘o my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the faith of Islam (as muslims)

V 136: Say (O Muslims), ‘we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to[b] Abraham[/b], Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob) and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord, WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THEM and to Him we have submitted (IN ISLAM).

Quran 3 v 84: Say (O Muhammed saw), ‘we believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the offspring of the tweve sons of Jacob and what was given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ONE ANOTHER AMONG THEM and to Him 9Allah) we have submitted (in Islam).

And there was no Islam either. Islam came many years after christianity.

There was and please read my post up and those verses supplied

If you believe your Allah is all knowing and owns the world, why didn't he stop muslims from perishing in the Tsunami or Indonesian earthquake?

You claimed that he redeemed you and I asked you:
Now if truly he came to die for your sins, why didnt he come immediately Adam and Eve committed the sin but had to wait thousand of years after prophets were sent to preach the oneness of God but you couldnt attempt that.

John 3:16 which says " For God so love the world that He sent His only begotten son to die for our sins"

Haba, shou . Must you bend the scripture to satisfy yourself? Mind you, I have been reading the bible before you could ever think of that.

The verse says: For God so love the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him would not perish but have everlasting life.


Quote
Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

Is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

Does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

Isaiah 49:6
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Nowhere that shows that he died for your sin.

Isaiah 7:14, “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”

Hope you know that this was not for Jesus and please was he called Emmanuel or Jesus?

Isaiah 9:6, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

I have treated this several times on nairaland and this has nothing to do with his dying for you

Micah 5:2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Sister, hope you know that you are dealing with someone that knows the bible. The verse was not for Jesus, no mention of his dying and redeeming you and he was never a ruler of Israel. Rememer he was asked if he was a king and he said that his kingdom is not of this world.

Isaiah 53:3-7, “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

Do you read bible for understanding at all? Now look at my highlighted words and ponder on them. The highlighted words called for questioning. Did God smite him?

You want more because there are many of them? I'm surprised you ask a question like this when you front here as a bible scholar.

Scroll up and read. Give me more and I will Insha Allah educate you.

You tend to take my mention of the blood of Jesus literally.

Jesus Christ is theONLY way to God
"I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father(allah,jehovah,oluwa,chinneke etc) BUT BY ME."
-- Jesus Christ, John 14:6

Still no mention of his dying for you or redeeming you. He was the light, way and truth during his time and immediately he left, another person took over. All prophets have been light, guidance and truth for their community. They have been acting as channels to reaching God so his case was no exception sister. He also said that no man can come to Him except father draws him.

Question:

1) What is the major difference between the Shi'a and Sunni muslims?

2) What is the meaning of observing the five pillars in islam?

3) Are you guys trying to avoid the jihad question? I am yet to be replied on the exact meaning of jihad and why some moslems misinterpret it?

Nobody is avoiding your questions and most of your questions have been answered in different threads. I want us to finish what we are duiscussing first before going into the simple questions below.

No, you didnt get it

Salam and thanks for that info. I have discovered this long time ago. May Allah protect us from Kufr/Bidiah

@Mukina

hehehe Babs u well so?
who is this friend tell me tell me i want to know
now its by force tell me or you will also be disqualified
hehehe jersey and first eleven cracks me up

Thanks for disqualifying him, creating a bigger avenue for my friend. Javalove even forgot that we are both GUNNERS FOR LIFE and that alone gives me added advantage. So Mukina, you cant disqualify me because we are gunners.

@David


Are you satisfied or you need more?

JOB (PBUH)


"That was Our proof which We gave Abraham against his people. We raise whom We will in degrees. Certainly your Lord is All-Wise, All Knowing. And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Ayoub, each of them We guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny David, Solomon, Ayoub, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good doers. (6:83-84)

Allah the Almighty praised His worshipper Ayoub in His Glorious Quran: Truly! We found him patient. How excellent a slave! Verily, he was ever oft returning in repentance to Us! (38:44)

Crying bitterly and with a heavy heart, she had no choice but to leave him and seek shelter elsewhere. In this helpless sate, Job turned to Allah, not to complain but to seek His mercy: "Verily! distress has seized me and You are the Most Merciful of all those who show mercy." so We answered his call, and we removed the distress that was on him, and We restored his family to him (that he had lost), and the like thereof along with them as a mercy from Ourselves and a Reminder for all who worship Us." (21:83-84)

Almighty Allah also instructed: "Remember Our slave Job, when he invoked His Lord saying: "Verily! Satan has touched me with distress (by losing my health) and torment (by losing my wealth)!" Allah said to him: "Strike the ground with your foot: This is a spring of water to wash in and cool and a refreshing drink." And We gave him back his family, and along with them the like thereof as a Mercy from Us, and a reminder for those who understand. (38:41-43)


DAVID (PBUH)

Almighty Allah declared: So they routed them by Allah's Leave and Dawud killed Goliath, and Allah gave him (Dawud) the kingdom (after the death of Saul and Samuel) and wisdom, and taught him of that which He willed. And if Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allah is full of Bounty to the Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exist). (2:251 Quran).


Verily, We made the mountains to glorify Our Praises with him (Dawud) in the Ashi (after the mid-day till sunset) and Ishraq (after the sunrise till mid-day). And (so did) the birds assembled: all with him (Dawud) did turn (to Allah, glorified His Praises). We made his kingdom strong and gave him wisdom and sound judgment in speech and decision. (38:18-20 Quran)

And to Dawud We gave the Psalms. (17:55 Quran).

Almighty Allah directed: Be patient (O Muhammad) of what they say, and remember Our slave Dawud, endured with power. Verily, he was ever oft-returning in all matters and in repentance toward Allah. (38:17 Quran).

And has the news of the litigants reached you? When they climbed over the wall into (his) Mihrab (a praying place or a private room). When they entered in upon Dawud, he was terrified of them, they said: Fear not! (We are) two litigants, one of whom has wronged the other; therefore judge between us with truth, and treat us not with injustice, and guide us to the Right Way."

"Verily, this is my brother (in religion) has ninety nine ewes, while I have only one ewe, and he says: 'Hand it over to me,' and he overpowered me in speech."

Dawud said immediately without listening to the opponent: "He has wronged you in demanding your ewe in addition to his ewes. And, verily, many partners oppress one another, except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and they are few."

And Dawud guessed that We have tried him and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned to Allah in repentance. So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and as good place of final return Paradise.

O Dawud! Verily! We have placed you as a successor on earth, so judge you between men in truth and justice. And follow not your desire for it will mislead you from the Path of Allah. Verily! Those who wander astray from the Path of Allah shall have a severe torment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning. (38:21-26 Quran).

@RedHotchic

I had to pause responding to David in order to attempt your post

I don't know their religion and cares less anyway. All I know is that they were neither moslems nor christians. Christianity started after the ascension of Jesus Christ into heaven and i think Islam started 1200 years later or even more. Abraham lived before the BC era and all i know is He worshipped God according to the bible but because Jesus Christ the son of God was not on earth then, they made supplications and worship through animal sacrifices like the pagans do in traditional African religion. I'm more inclined to call his religion, paganism.

Abraham was not a pagan and if you have been reading your bible very well, he was called the 'father of faith' and below are verses showing that he was a muslim. God did not sent two prophets with two different religion:

Quran 2 v 130: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (Islamic monotheism) except him who befols himself. Truly, we chose him in this world and verily in the Hereafter, he will be among the righteous.

V 131: When His Lord said to him, ‘submit (i.e be a muslim). He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a muslim) to the Lord of the mankind, jinn and all that exists.

V 132: And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob (saying), ‘o my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the faith of Islam (as muslims)

V 135: And they say, ‘be jews or Christians, then you be guided’. Say (to them O Muhammed saw), ‘nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham (Islam) to worship none but Allah and he was not one of the Mushrikin.

V 136: Say (O Muslims), ‘we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob) and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord, WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THEM and to Him we have submitted (IN ISLAM).

You need to understand that the story of abraham ,Isaac and their religion is preety much trivial to a christian.

In what way? Hope you know that there was no christianity during the time of Abraham and Isaac?

The core of christianity is the new covenant the children of God did with their father and we've been redeemed by the blood Jesus shed on the calvary(so, no animal scarifices again).

Now, where did he say that he redeemed you with his blood? Now if truly he came to die for your sins, why didnt he come immediately Adam and Eve committed the sin but had to wait thousand of years after prophets were sent to preach the oneness of God?

He paid for our sins with His blood, therefore,

Care to furnish me the proof from your bible?

we are absolved from every guilt and sin as long as we accept him.

I need his statement to support what you said above.
Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

Is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.

Does God punish himself before he can forgive a sin done against him?

Why still carry your sins around when Jesus can lay it off you?

Sister, hope you do read your book very well? A man went up to Jesus and ask hm what good things must he do to gain paradise. Jesus never told him to believe in any blood BUT TO KEEP THE Commandment and when the man said he does that, Jesus said that he is not far from the kingdom of Heaven. This shows that no blood atonement is needed for you to be saved.

Ezekiel 18v20: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteous shall be upon himself

Deuteronomy 24v16: the father shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be put to death for the father’s, every man shall be put to death for his own sin

@Davidylan


ADAM (PBUH)

Remember when your Lord said to the angels: 'Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.' They said: 'Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks (exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You.' Allah said: 'I know that which you do not know.'

Allah taught Adam all the names of everything, then He showed them to the angels and said: "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful." They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise."

He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been hiding?"

Remember when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourself before[b] Adam[/b]" They prostrated except Iblis, he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers(disobedient to Allah)."

We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimeen (wrongdoers)."

Then the Satan made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down all with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time."

Then Adam received from his Lord Words. His Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the most Merciful.

We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, and signs and revelations, etc) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever." ( 2:30-39, Qur'an).

Almighty Allah also revealed: And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis, he refused to be those who prostrate.

Allah said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not postrate when I commanded you?"

Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire and him You created from clay."

Allah said: "O Iblis get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

Iblis said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (Day of Resurrection)."

  Allah said: "You are of those allowed respite."

Iblis said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (they will not be dutiful to You)."

Allah said: "Get out from Paradise, disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."

"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimeen (unjust and wrongdoers)."

Then Satan whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts before, he said:" Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals." Satan swore by Allah to them both saying: "Verily I am one of the sincere well wishers for you both."

So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). Their Lord called out to them saying "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you, Verily Satan is an open enemy unto you?"

They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." Allah said: "Get down one of you an enemy to the other (i.e. Adam, Eve, and Satan etc). On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment, for a time." He said: "therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (resurrected)." (7:11-25 Qur'an).


ABRAHAM (PBUH)

Indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well Acquainted with him( as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allah etc). ( 21:51)

Thus did We show Ibrahim the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he be one of those who have Faith and certainty. When the night covered him over with darkness he saw a star. He said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "I like not that those who set." When he saw the moon rising up he said: "This is my lord." but when it set he said: "Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among the erring people." When he saw the sun rising up he said: "This is my lord, This is greater." But when it set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners in worship with Allah. Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth Hanifan (Islamic Monotheism, i.e. worshipping none but Allah Alone) and I am not of the Al Mushrikeen (those who worship others besides Allah)."

His people disputed with him. He said: "Do you dispute with me concerning Allah while HE has guided me and I fear not those whom you associate with Allah in worship. (Nothing can happen to me) except when my Lord (Allah) wills something. My Lord comprehends in His Knowledge all things. Will you not then remember?

"And how should I fear those whom you associate in worship with Allah (though they can neither benefit nor harm), while you fear not that you have joined in worship with Allah things for which HE has not sent down to you any authority. So which of the two parties has more right to be in security? If you but know."

It is those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah and worship none but Him Alone) and confuse not their belief with Zulm (wrong, i.e. by worshipping others besides Allah), for them only there is security and they are the guided. And that was Our proof which We gave Ibrahim against his people. We raise whom We will in degrees. Certainly your Lord is All Wise, All Knowing. (6:75-83 Quran).

Ibrahim made clear to them, first that the celestial bodies are unworthy of worship and second that they are among the signs of Allah. Almighty Allah commanded: And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah Who created them if you really worship Him. ( 41:37)

Ibrahim's reasoning helped to reveal the truth, and then the conflict between him and his people began for the worshippers of the stars and planets did not stand mute. they began arguing and threatening Ibrahim.

Ibrahim replied: "Do you dispute with me concerning Allah while HE has guided me, and I fear not those whom you associate with Allah in worship. (Nothing can happen to me except when my Lord (Allah) wills something. My Lord comprehends in His Knowledge all things. Will you not then remember? How should I fear those whom you associate in worship with Allah (though they can neither benefit or harm), while you fear not that you have joined in worship with Allah things for which He has not sent down to you any authority. SO which of the two parties has more rights to be in security? , if you but know! It is those who believe (in the oneness of Allah and worship none but HiAlone) and confuse not their belief with Zulm (wrong by worshipping others besides Allah), for them only there is security and they are the guided." (6:80-82)

And that was Our Proof which We gave Ibrahim against his people. We raised whom We will in degrees. Certainly your Lord is All Wise, All Knowing. (6:83)

HE said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?" they said: "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error." They said: "Have you brought us the truth, or are you one of those who play about?" He said: "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them and of that I am of the witnesses." (21:52-56)

he hastily added: "O my father! Verily! There has come to me of knowledge that which came not unto you. So follow me. I will guide you to a Straight Path. O my father! Worship not Satan. Verily! Stan has been a rebel against the Most Beneficent (Allah). O my father! Verily! I fear lest a torment from the Most Beneficent (Allah) overtake you as that you become a companion of Satan (in the Hellfire)."

He (the father) said: "Do you reject my gods, O Ibrahim? If you stop not this, I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you." Ibrahim said: "Peace be on you! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily! He is unto me, Ever Most Gracious. And I shall turn away from you and from those whom you invoke besides Allah." (19:43-48)

Almighty Allah recounted: Recite to them the story of Ibrahim. When he said to his father and his people. "What do you worship?" They said: "We worship idols, and to them we are ever devoted." He said: "Do they hear you when you call on them? OR do they benefit you or do they harm you?" They said: "Nay but we found our father doing so."

He said: "Do you observe that which you been worshipping, You and your ancient fathers? Verily! They are enemies to me, save the Lord of the Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists); Who has created me and it is HE Who guides me and it is HE Who feeds me and gives me to drink. And when I am ill, it is He who cures me; and Who will cause me to die and then will bring me to life again and Who I hope will forgive me my faults on the Day of Resurrection." (26:69-82 Quran).

In another surah The Almighty revealed: And remember Ibrahim when he said to his people: "Worship Allah Alone and fear Him that is better for you if you did but know. You worship besides Allah only idols and you only invent falsehood. Verily, those whom you worship beside Allah have no power to give you provision, so seek your provision from Allah Alone, you will be brought back. And if you deny then nations before you have denied their Messengers. the duty of the Messenger is only to convey the Message plainly

LET ME STOP HERE

@Davidylan

littleb:
Jethro - sacrificed his daughter to God to pay a vow, is he truly a muslim prophet?
Elijah - went to heaven in a chariot of fire and heard a still small voice, is he also a muslim prophet?
Elisha - His bones resurrected the dead, is he a muslim prophet?
John the baptist - prophesied the coming of Christ and baptised people with water, is water baptism an islamic rite?

My dear, it goes beyond merely copying names from the bible and claiming them to be prophets, were are the stories of these "prophets" IN YOUR QURAN?


I asked a very simple question - Can you please show me IN THE QURAN where these "prophets" are talked about in detail? What was their message IN THE QURAN?

"We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that everytime a MESSENGER went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant ? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you KILLED." 2"87

"We have taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we sent to them messengers. Whenever a MESSENGER went to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected and some they KILLED. " 5:70

", They have incurred condemnation, humiliation and disgrace, and brought upon themselves wrath from God. This is because they rejected God's revelation, and KILLED the PROPHETS unjustly. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed." 2:61

Some prophets were mentioned by name in the Quran and we have Adam, Enoch, Noah, Hud, Saleh, braham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, Joseph, Shu'aib, Job, Moses, Aaron, Ezekiel,
David, Solomon, Elias, Elisha, Jonah, Zechariah, John, Jesus, Muhammad.

David, I will now post verses where they were mentioned.

@RedHotchic

How can Abraham, Isaac and moses be moslems when christianity predates islam? Abram, isaac and moses were not even christians. Christianity simply means follower of Christ. That christian brother that wrote that piece is either a non christian claiming to be one on the net or a dormant christian in a blind church. No pastor well rooted in the word of God will tell you that.

I will not go into deatiled explanation but will back up my explanation with straight forward verses showing that they were Muslims and thanks for admitting that they were never christians. I want youi to know that Christianity practised then is quite different from the one you are doing now.


Quran 3 v 85: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be in the ranks of those who have lost.

Quran 3 v 91;Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in th Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, revelations etc) of Allah, then surely, Allah is swift in caling to account.

Other religions derive their names after their leaders eg chris – Christian, budha – budhaism, tao – Taoism, sango – onisango, oshun – oloshun etc but the name Islam is given by Allah thus:

Quran 5 v 3 …This day! I have perfected your religion, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Quran 22 v 78: …It is he who named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran), that the Messenger (Muhammed saw) may be a witness over you and you be witness over mankind.

Can God give two prophets two different religions? No far from that, Allah made it known that all the prophets came with the same religion which is Islam:

Quran 42 v 13: He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic monotheism) which He ordained for Noah, and that which we have revealed to you (O Muhammed saw) and that which we ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus saying YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (i.e to do what it orders you to do practically) AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (religion)

Abraham was a Muslim:

Quran 2 v 130: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham (Islamic monotheism) except him who befols himself. Truly, we chose him in this world and verily in the Hereafter, he will be among the righteous.

V 131: When His Lord said to him, ‘submit (i.e be a muslim). He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a muslim) to the Lord of the mankind, jinn and all that exists.

V 132: And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Abraham upon his sons and by Jacob (saying), ‘o my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the faith of Islam (as muslims)

V 135: And they say, ‘be jews or Christians, then you be guided’. Say (to them O Muhammed saw), ‘nay, (we follow) only the religion of Abraham (Islam) to worship none but Allah and he was not one of the Mushrikin.

V 136: Say (O Muslims), ‘we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob) and that which has been given to Moses and Jesus and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord, WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THEM and to Him we have submitted (IN ISLAM).

Quran 3 v 83: Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (Islam) while in Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

V 84: Say (O Muhammed saw), ‘we believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the offspring of the tweve sons of Jacob and what was given to Moses, Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ONE ANOTHER AMONG THEM and to Him 9Allah) we have submitted (in Islam).

I read all the response of Mis Lady she is more talking about SIN/SINLESS, we want to know how Jesus became god in trinity give as some evidence in the bible? ok

Dont woryy, let her finish and we would go into her write up.

@Uche2nna

If You don't know, now You know!!!!

Not a coincidence that my name went awol on that list

Meaning what? You had better go to Aba abi na Onitsha and look for your Nne there


@Javalove

kaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

so when cat no dey house, rat go become king!!!!!!!

E be like say you no dey watch Tom and Jerry

You are doing a good job trying to work Mukina for yourself (i'm sure your pal does'nt exist).

Says who?

If everyone does not understand, I do.

Thanks very much for understanding that you stand no chance

So you think because you're more informed than me about her, u stand a greater chance? Well u wish. All na mouth!!!!

Am I more informed than you do? You can as well get informed by looking for her data: her name, address on search engine e.g google, Mamma etc

As for my business, its not a bribe.

Are you sure?

Just for u to help u manage it till i come back from my trip.

What trip? Now I understand, you wanna come for the Nikkah in Gambia. Mind you, no need handing over the business to me as I would be there myself and that would provide you the opportunity of seeinf her live and direct but hope you no get hot temper?

Mukina don't u think that confirms my singleness and readiness to have u?

Yes that confirmed it and your readiness to have her as a friend which she granted you here on nairaland and nothing more. You are my friend and would be a friend to my friend's wife

Babs keep away.

Yes o, I am keeping away from your business in order to attend the Nikkah of my friend and angel Mukinah. Nairanders, please help me felicitate oooo

@Mukina

Mukina. Let me give u a nigerian name here.

Mukina Ayomide Olutayo Jaji!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So no Islamic name for her? You can see that a person that sabi her value more than you do has swept her

Fill the form on my website to contact me. www.jajitech.net.

Na lie. All of us would fill that form and that doesnt guarantee you first eleven jersey.

Don't mind babs, he's just trying to do what real madrid are doing to manchester united on Chritiano Ronaldo. Just remain focused. When we meet, we will talk more,

No, he is trying to do what Gunners are going to do to Adebayor

Case Closed!!!

@Mukina

Good news about?

Good news about the Nikkah

he still does not qualify let him try harder

He is qualified and over qualified than Javalove

who is he?? i nor sabi am jare

He is the same guy you know

I am married to us? who be us? warn yourself o that message was for all of you

When I say us, I mean my friend, belonging to our group.

lol. The grandpa get guns o and lots of machetes , berra run fast before his grandchudrens inform him I really want to know this friend please tell me na

Ok let us wait till then. My friend has bullet proof vest and matchet doesnt penetrate

hehehehehehe una all nor well

The una and all is for Javalove and that Uche