₦airaland Forum

@pilgrim

Coming from the Muslim thread, I had suggested that we bring our enquiries here. Like I observed earlier, this issue has been dealt with in another thread --

Glorious Qur'an -- (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-25738.64.html#msg808353).


If anyone's interested, they could see how well-articulated the several replies there have been, to the point that Islam permits Muslim men to BEAT their wives.

I am not surprised at your roundabout argument cos I am well known to it. I thoght your sister raised the issue of 'we' in the Quran and it has been dealt with in one of the threads. Rather than concentrate on that, you tried diverting to another link which answers have also been provided.

The picture in that link doesnt mean that Muslims beat their wives. Jus because you saw a picture of a man beating his wife doesnt mean that all muslims beat their wives. Its not done and I have never and will never do that.

Are you trying to tell me that there are no 'men of God' in christianity that beat their wives? Be honest to yourself while providing the answer.



Thanks

@PH

The real Jesus's name is NOT in any of your books or quran. They were mischievously inserted there by those seeking to piggy back on Him to lend some credibility to their fraud.

Anyone can right a book and put Jesus there, it does not make it credible.

Is Jesus' real name in the bible?
Is jesus his real name?

his name is NOT there period!

What is his real name?

All we simply ask is that you people produce that lost version of the bible allah claimed to have sent down.

You are still on this infantile argument of yours? How many times have I provided you evidence and even provided link to the papyril?



Maybe we should unveil the issue again.


Cheers

Insert Quote
@oyb,

How was I pretending to be "new" here? I think this silly under-the-bridge exculpations you guys come up with is a bit weathered now. The one thing I offered was that we try to make sense in discussing issues - was that a "new" phenomenon to justle your comfort zone?

If you've got nothing important to say, simply pass on - no one's going to increase your house rent for keeping silent! Haa!


Quote from: oyb on August 09, 2007, 11:08 AM
fortunately(or maybe unfortunately), most of us are not as uncouth and sallow as your fellow 'evangelists'.running into threads to start fires

No vex. The fires were to keep you guys warm and agile. We're used to all the usual skating and perforated handgloves (so to speak) coming from your camp - and that's why I urged that we took our enquiries to another thread so you guys can be tucked in here neat and tidy! Wetin bad in that?


Quote from: oyb on August 09, 2007, 11:08 AM
anyway, keep coming back here,who knows, you just might find your way back to the right path. i admire your 'hardworking' thinking.

Thanks for the offer. It's just that the more I read from you guys, the further away from Mecca I travel. No offences, . . but as usual, the next thing is that someone would amicably quote Sura 109:6 (Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.)

Anyways, enjoy. . . and dress warm.

You are welcome

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
I wonder at times if you really understand yourself let alone understanding another person.

I very well do. For the simple reason that you don't understand yourself nor your 'salam brothers', it doesn't surprise anyone that you'd make such comments.

I can see that you understood yourself perfectly. No wonder for your usual noise making.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
You prefer graping at straw rather understand issues.

Self-descriptive of your trademark, abi?

Which you are known for at answering questions



Q

uote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
Your brother said that muslims believe that jesus died and was raised, so please tell me or give me any post where muslims said that jesus and roise just like christians have been saying.

That's why I corrected him rather than agreed with him. Because you simply want to cease the moment and show how garrulous you can be at grasping desperately at straws, you would characteristically miss the point of my correcting him.

You corrected him. Good for both of you.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
Sure he didnt die let alone being crucified. Thank God that you are aware of that.

I'm very aware He died and rose again, so don't pretend my statements to have meant what you're sweating not to have understood.

Where did you get yours from? Can I have the proof?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
I am not quarelling but telling you to be very sure of what you are posting and not posting what you can't defend.

There. The very same thing I cautioned him about.

Okay, professor.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 07:36:01 PM
Where did you read that muslims believe that he died and rose like christians have been preaching? I was and can never be one again.

There are many Muslims who have come to know the reality of salvation in Christ Jesus. Glad you cannot deny that fact.

You will now be accusing muslims of not understanding issues. We are here talking about crucifixion and you are bringing issue of conversion. Na real wa oooo. You are understanding thread indeed.

Take care.

Quote from: Tiptronic on July 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
Here are nearly all of them:

19:71 And every one of you will come within sight of it: this is, with thy Sustainer, a decree that must be fulfilled. (M Asad)

19:71 Not one of you but will pass over it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished. (Yusuf Ali)

19:71 There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord. (Picktall)

19:71 And there is not one of you but shall come to it; this is an unavoidable decree of your Lord. (Shakir)

19:71 Not one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; that for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. (Arberry)

19:71 There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished. (Khan/Muhsin)

NONE of which say anything about going into hell, or burning in hell.


In any case, please take a look at Arberry:

19:71 Not one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; that for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined.

I made a simple case of people being made to "enter" into Hell fire by Allah's irrevocable decree; and you only came back sweating to argue against it while unwittingly establishing my point! This is unbelieveable! If you're so convinced that NONE of the translations you offered said anything about "going into hell", could you kindly tell us what Arberry meant by stating infact that they "go down to" it? What really is the difference your argument makes between --

going into hell -- (yours)

and

going down to hell? -- (Arberry's)

Okay I noticed that you are not ready to think . He gave you verses from other translations but you were glued to one. Please jst like I asked you in other thread, what is the relationship between a bird and an angel. A verse fro one translator said an angel while another said it was an eagle, please which do we accept. When you provide answer, I will then provide explanation on your ignorance.


Do we say KJV is right or other version cos they didnt mention same thing?

For graphic effect, add to that semantics the translation offered by Dr. Mohammad Mahmoud Ghali whose translation is heralded as a "masterpiece" by Muslims. This is how he translates that verse:

'And decidedly not one of you (there is), except that he will go (herded) down to it;
that, for your Lord, has been a thing decreed, a must.'

So, Tiptronic, please kindly offer us the significant difference in the translations that say every one of you "will go down to" and "go herded down to" Hell; and how they are saying the opposite of your claim that "NONE of which say anything about going into hell"!

And NO, please don't even waste what is left of your already dented scholarship trying to prove that to "pass over" Hell fire is the same as "shall descend into the same [hell]" as (Sale) puts it! Incase you missed that, to "descend into the same Hell" is NOT to "pass over" it!

Oh, by the way, admittedly I didn't spend 20 years of my life devoted to studying the Qur'an. However, you could as well take a look at Dr. M. M. Ghali's summary CV on: (http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Guestcv.asp?hGuestID=tba1UD), where among other things are the following:

"Born in 1920, Professor Ghali is one of the leading international figures in the field of Islamic studies, particularly in Qur’anic studies.

Dr. Ghali has spent 20 years interpreting the meanings of the Glorious Qur’an into English. His English translation (Towards Understanding the Ever-Glorious Qur’an) is a masterpiece in the field."

There, my dear Tiptronic. . . quarrel with that all you wish!

Same problem with you. He gave you explanation backing it up with HADITH. He even gave you different translators and what they meant but you are not satisfied, so if that is the case, lets apply the same test to the bible.

Which creature was crying in the sky in Revelation 8 v 13?

What was the age of saul when he began to reign and how long did he reign.? 1st samuel 13 v 1

Quote from: Tiptronic on July 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
Yeah, thats the problem with copying from AI. Yiu don't know what you're talking about and you can't even provide me with hadith books/numbers. lol

You just don't know what you're talking about, poor you. There is nothing sectarian about which hadiths are true or false.

You lie when you say "the hadiths that most Muslims say are fabricated". You don't know whether this is a fabricated hadith or not because you don't even know which book this hadith came from!!! Was it Bukhari/Muslim/Tirmizi etc?? You just don't know.

So you dont know that some hadiths are fabricated. Oh no poor you. I am beginning to see that it will be a sheer waste of time arguing with you but I still dey kampe.

I don't serve all my amunitions all at once! Since you haven't been able to provide the verse in the Qur'an for what I asked for, no need wasting further scholarship on you. Until you learn to read straight and prove you undertand English, let's just keep this discussion at your level of assimilation, yes?

He did you are just making denials. So please provide explanation to the questions on the bible asked above.

Accusing me of lying is not such a worry. I've explained earlier that most Muslims claim there are fabricated hadiths - and I gave weblinks thereto. If those on the weblinks lied to you, that's no bother to me personally as we know that's what Muslims do anyways. It's just so sad that they would do that to you, and yet you deliberately miss the point I made earlier that it is not my responsibility to be sympathetic to any divide or sectarian parties in the more than 70 sects in Islam. So, if what a particular denomination says does not appeal to you and therefore merits your accusation, it's nothing new - one of your own (babs787) has referred to your Muslim translators of the Qur'an as "deluded authors that lied in order to deceive"!! (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.0.html#msg1102498) and (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.32.html#msg1108087)

Your noise making is not helping matters. the earlier you realize, the better for you. Please muslims provided explanation but you are nt satisfied abi, so please try to answer my questions too and lets see which of your versions is correct.

Quote from: Tiptronic on July 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
Translations are a rough idea of what the Quran means, not the Quran itself. It quite humourous, you relying on translation to get the meaning. Go learn some Arabic (more than ahlan wasahlan) and then make commentary to me about the Quran.

I didn't just rely on translations - much the same as you did but have not been able to show what you claim is in the Qur'an either ways. Translations being 'a rough idea of what the Qur'an means' do not help the widely held concept that once the Qur'an is translated into another language, it immediately ceases to be the word of Allah! Is it not the same translations you've relied on, albeit parry around those that you think help you particular denominational slants?

In addition to that, please what are the passing over. I have been asking this question but you have not answered me.

Quote from: Tiptronic on July 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
You just have no idea.

Its typical for such people to make scholars of themselves.

lol, I prefer the opinion of someone who IS a scholar to that of some apostate, anyday!

No worries. I haven't made a scholar of myself; and if you just did that, thanks for the accolades - I'd rather be the simple learner I've always been hitherto.

Since you prefer the personal opinion (or ijtihad) of someone who IS a scholar to your caling me an apostate, then please take another look at M. M. Ghali's "masterpiece" translation of Sura 19:71 ~ 'And decidedly not one of you (there is), except that he will go (herded) down to it; that, for your Lord, has been a thing decreed, a must.' Not my opinion now, mind you; and you can prefer to go herded down to Hell all you wish!


Quote from: Tiptronic on July 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
I am simply wasting my time explaining this to you. You're all the same, arguing about something you know nothing about, the copy/paste warriors!

I can't waste anymore time here, so i say thank you for havin me and Goodbye.

May Allah guide you to the only and Ultimate Haqq!

Sad to see you leave like that. I'd thought there would indeed have been loads waiting for me from your pen. Obviously, after the bloviation you'd just have to let your incapability enjoy some good rest from what you can't prove from your Qur'an.

May God Himself open your eyes and save you from what you don't understand.

He said a good prayer for someone like that argue without basis and concrete proof but prefer making noise.

Still on the issue, Muslims have provided explanation so please try to explain the difference in versions of the bible to me too.


Thanks

pilgrim

I brought the thread where you dread your nightmares close by so you can take a look and address what you call "explanation". We know the Muslim games at posting deceptions to cover their denials, and that's why I am asking that you go there and show the joker you are, instead of hiding in this thread.

It is you that has been playing games and i am just starting with you. More is still coming woth regards to issues in the bible. I have been there and saw detailed explanation to your problem.

To assure you, there are answers to the small questions that have continually plagued you. . and as soon as you wake up from the usual Muslim dribble you've using to kill time here, you will find answers to your worries in the pretended 'questions' you've been noising endlessly here.

Please provide the answers.

One thing you should note is that, none of the verses from the Bible you have quoted amounts to the same thing as Allah promising to send Muslims to Hell fire as we find in the Qur'an. Too bad if you've been hoping for a bridge in the Qur'an where Allah did not remotely promise any bridge over Hell. It is not my problem that you will enter where you fear . . . it is INEVITABLE, and Allah has promised Hell fire for all Muslims! That is the one reason why you dread my answers in the other thread and have been making noise here forever. Grow up, mr babs. . . that thread is not the Hell itself. You will only find answers there that clearly enunciate your irrevocable dread by a hitman decree.

Nobody is dreading your answers. Muslims provided DETAILED answers to your sleeplesness.
Oh sure they will never meant same thing in as much as a verses is mentioning angel while is mentioning eagle/bird. Or situation where a verse says Peter went to the Courtyard, Gateway, Porch etc.

You aint see nothing yet.

So, once again, take your jokes to your errand boys and let them know that it is not working on pilgrim.1, you hear? Let them know that the only way to solve your problem is for them to show you the verse where Allah mentioned the bridge over Hell fire, so that you can be sure not to be taken into it (or, as Dr. M. M. Ghali translates it in his masterpiece, "to be herded down into Hell".

Hey, is it only Ghali you are quoting? why not give me from Hilali or Dawood too. You are great player and wasting your time. You should know that when babs is ready for, he will surely make you sweat. So you cant use your initiative cos Quran didnt mention bridge and please what are the passing over?

When you land there, I wish you the very best of the hitman decree from Allah. If you're smart at all, you won't be hiding here under this noise you've been making. You would rather go to that thread and smell the flames early enough to clear your fussy thinking.

Okay. You tell that to 'Jesus that went to Hell in the bible'

Salam, babs. Whether you like it or not, Sura 19.71 is irrevocable . . and the only way you can escape that hitman decree is when you no longer carry yourself about like the Muslim who does not want to acknowledge his worst nightmare in that verse. One more thing . . . that verse happens to be one of the few that will NEVER be abrogated!

So, salam again. Dress lightly, because the flames will not spare you, babs.

You roundabout denial is not helping matter. Muslims provided explanations but yu are not ready to think so please you provide explanation to my questions too to know that you are up to the task and not just making noise.

In case you have forgotten. . . my answers are not far away>


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1300770 <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html>

Tiptronic answered you backing it up with hadith but you were puzzled and lost along the line.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619

I read it too. Its stil the same link. he provided the answers but you made the denials.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625

Still same issue

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457

Same issue

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464

I went there and saw tiptronic's response to your infantile roundabout argument which you are known for. You were making denials without evidence. Too bad for you.

Go there and and see the detailed deception exposed that you have pretended to overlook.

Yes I did and I saw his detailed response.

Besides, when the tread was first opened, I was one of the first to post a rejoinder to contextualize the idea of Muhammad being bad. Incase you missed it yet again, please go over and take a look>

You didnt respond to my last post in the thread about athrocities committed by christians in spreading the message through the use of swords.

Quote
Lol @Vicjustice,

There's really no need for the over-reaction. Coming from the other thread, it's anybody's take that Muhammad was either an all-time bad/evil person, or in some respects 'good'. These terms can only be relative, not absolute.

But there again: just my opinion. Please don't be offended.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-65190.0.html#msg1278260

Okay so its your opinion but its flawed. Making noise without enough fact.

This is my response which you ignored

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-65190.32.html

Because you Muslims cannot see beyond your nose, you deliberately want to pretend that you missed that.

You didnt make reference to the thread opened by vicjustice where I showed you how christianity was spread through the use of force and sword.

It is quite a shame that you are pretending to be a man. No worries - I have told you before, and would yet do it again. . . go back to your errand biys and let them know that your noisy jokes are not working on pilgrim.1 . . you want to keep slipping under cover of your usual Islamic antics. Pity.

Common enough of your denials and ignorance. please do justice to my questions on some verses from different versions.

I didnt pretend and will never do. You left the thread when I posted athrocities committed by your people in spreading christianity .

Respond to the thread and lets continue if you are in doubt. Also dont forget to respond to my questions asked in this thread too.

@pilgrim

I am not like you, my player. What did you intend to do by accusing someone else instead of focusing on the topic? The thread on The Quran and the Hadith was left unattended by your and your folks, and I didnt press issues, seeing there are not enough intelligent Muslims in the house to brace up to issues. Your trademark for games and allegations are unmistakable, so do not try to rub your marks on someone else in the hope that it would make your own burdens lighter.

Okay. Lets see if you are not a player and you really answered my questions.


Since you are still saying that your bible iscomplete, I therefore bring out part of my observations from the bible as given to you in those liks provided up.


If you are saying the bible is complete and without going to the number of books in the protestants and catholics bible, without making reference to Encyclopedia Britannica about the removal of some books, apocryphal books etc

Tell me why these verses are not in some bibles apart from KJV.

a.Mathew 17 v 21 (b) mark 11 v 26 (c) acts 8 v 37 (d) Mathew 17 v 21 (e) Mathew 21 v 44 (f) Mathew 23 v 14 etc

@kuns



https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.32.html


Follow these links and read all you may want to know about the missing verses, books and the preface of some bibles agreeing that the bible is corrupt. Also read their response to my questions on the completeness of the bible.




@pilgrim

I was not not arguing with you. Just one request I made: show me where in that verse (Gen. 26:5) that it was called the law of Abraham. That is all. Not the crumbs that you argued instead. Thank you.

You will start accusing muslims of avoiding thread. The topic is 'IS THE BIBLE COMPLETE' and dont try to divert as I have known you for that. So answer the questions and babs will come in as it progresses.

Insert Quote
this boy no dey tire
babs, na you biko

You know what babs can do.


@pilgrims

Insert Quote
@babs787,

I have just brought up the other thread close by for your attention so that it is easier for you to go there and find answers to your problems with Sura 19:71.

I was about posting when I saw your post and will answer it along with your former rejoinder.

I have gone through and saw that tiptronic answered more than I ever expected.

Quit the drama and go there to see the answers I offfered. You Muslims have been playing games forever whenever you find your denials face to face. Look at the excuses you're now covering face with:

Muslims can never play games with, you are the one confusing yourself when you having nothing to proof.

Of course you don't need to go check those links because you know your nightmares are facing you there.

Honestly sister, no matter how you may twist the debate, the fact remains that when we start, it is you christian that will get tired cos there is proof and evidence to knock you and your faith out.

It won't be my problem if you take a heart attack whenever you do. You pretend the 'salam bother' to whip up cheap applause from you and your folks for not having been able to clearly and simply provide the verse for what you make Allah say that he did not say in the Qur'an. Sorry for you.

I wonder whats your problem in greeting my brothers. Do muslims raise eyebrows when any of your folks greet or congratulate you? Hey, you know that babs doesnt give a damn, it is you that will get tired when we start, you will make me go deep into your bible and start what I have stopped.

Don't make me laugh. If that was meant as another device to hide your weak fallacies, save it - it's not working. Where did I open threads against BABS? What do you represnt - juju that no one has heard of before? Who captalized on your absence - or you just want to to let us know that mouth is paining you to talk beyond what you see? Where did I come up with threads against BABS - do you even exist?

Hey, I am beginning to diagnose your problem and when I start with you, you will regret debating with babs. I will be very grateful if a favour can be granted which is, leaving two threads for you and I. One will be for Islamic questios and the other will for questions on christianity. Let me know if you are ok with that and Seun should make it possible if you are comfortable with that . Strictly for you and I.

You had the intention to make me regret - and only one thread about Muhammad's miracles made your eyes red. You still haven't recovered yet from that one - and you're snuffing smoke to make me regret! Please go to your errand boys and pick another joke: tell them that the one they gave you is not working on pilgrim.1 - they may have stronger juju for you.

Nobody'e eyes red. You were just twisting and going round in circles. I didnt see you in that thread of 99 names of Allah and you didnt even go on with that 'Muhammed is not a good man'. Babs is ever ready for you anyhow you want it. By the time I am through with you, you will regret debating with babs.

You're right - I'm not satisfied with Muslim so-called 'explanations' that have only turned out to be more deception than 'explanation'. I know - I've dealt with your betters before, and not even Tiptronic was able to sustain his so-called 'explanation'. He knew his noose was getting tighter and he eloped from the Forum. I didn't wish him to have gone so unceremoniously; but he's smart to have saved himself the bang he didn't wish for; and you're here crying 'you must answer my questions.'

I am used to your trademark and it wont work for me. Ok lets put it this way, muslims explained to you but you are not satisfied. So please try to explain my questions too if you are up to the task. Remember, I have not started with you yet, but by the time I am through with you, you will regret coming to nairaland. I only wish seun grant my request. And when we start. i mean you and I, both of must answer questions thrown at each other.

Babs787, just quit the pretences, Muslims play the games you've been ever playing on the Forum - and that's why you don't want to go over to the other thread for my answers as you're hiding away from your worst nightmares. When you recover just a bit, fold your agbada and go there and show the coward that you're alleging against others but can't see in you. Here again:

You are the one hallucinating. Muslim provided enough explanation but you are not satisfied as a result of your mischief. Here you are showing your weakness by not being able to answer my questions.

Quote
You will find my answers already offered to your questions in the thread "Moslems Are You Ready To Commit Suicide?" Please follow these links and read them carefully:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1300770

I saw it, just like the explanation I gave to you.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619

Tiptronic provided enough explanation.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625

May Allah be pleased with him, he provided detailed explanation

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464

May Allah be pleased with him for providing enough explanation but only that you are not ready to learn and use what you have in your upstairs

WHERE IS THE VERSE IN THE QUR'AN THAT MENTIONS THE BRIDGE OVER HELL?

Once again, what are they passing over in the verse I provided for you?

The coward that you don't want to be should not be chasing you from my answers in that thread. If you guys have any answers at all, you should not be avoiding that thread like the next biggest plague is going to break out on you. You're here crying sheep - and for all your fright, you dream to make me REGRET?!? Whoever sold you that joke should have called you to a quiet corner for advice when I debated you on Muhammade's miracles that you haven't been able to defend till date.

I am not running and will never do that. I have provided explanation for you but you are not satisfied. I am asking you again, please what are they passing over.

On the issue of Miracles, I didnt run but ignored you when I realised that you cannot debate sensibly  but arguing over what you have no fact for as you have been doing in some threads.

Please let me know if you are ok with the opening of two threads strictly for you and I. If you are ok, let me know so we start once and for all. You will be asking me questions in Islamic thread while I will be doing same in christianity thread.

Please accept my offer.


I have been begging you and still begging you to provide explanation to my questions just like muslims have done to you.

Chinekeeeee!!
babs you get bad mouth o

Bad mouth for where. Truth must be told jare.

babs you don't want babaosisi to commit manslaughter do you?

Wetin bring manslaughter for this one now? Wetin concern agbero with overload?

@pilgrim

Everything to you guys is a lie because it is not made by a Muslim. If that statement was made by a Muslim, you won't see it as a 'lie

to please people' -

but would've pretended it as a 'mistake'.

I wonder at times if you really understand yourself let alone understanding another person. You prefer graping at straw rather understand issues. Your brother said that muslims believe that jesus died and was raised, so please tell me or give me any post where muslims said that jesus and roise just like christians have been saying.

@Papa, this is just one reason why I'm concerned that people check out their gists first before posting them and inviting uncomplimentary remarks. Be encouraged - you may have been mistaken, but Muslims do not believe that Christ died and rose again. They rather see his death and resurrection in the future, and not a historical event for our redemption in the past.

Sure he didnt die let alone being crucified. Thank God that you are aware of that.




@papa

As a matter of fact I almost got one that believed that born-again last week, if not for obedience reasons beyond my control. Even Jesus said "Anything is possible". Nothing is impossible because you've not encoutered it.

And @babs787 I want to believe that you're a christian; well, whether you are or not all the same. Thing is, it's a forum board not a wrestling ring, you don't have to come out th@ harsh.

I am not quarelling but telling you to be very sure of what you are posting and not posting what you cant defend. Where did you read that muslims believe that he died and rose like christians have been preaching? I was and can never be one again.


Cheers

@Papa

A muslim can be called a believer because he believes Jesus died and was raised and will still not be a christian;
but a christian does that and more; he confesses The Lordship of Jesus.

Where did you see or hear that one? You want to start what you will not be able to finish. Must you lie to please people?

@Horus

Ramadan breath is a very foul odor. You Muhammadans with your hadith have the nerve to say that Allah will pardon one’s Ramadan breath, and that it likened to the scent of paradise, what nonsense. You mean to tell me paradise smells like a sewer system that can be found right here on earth. Scientifically speaking, the digestive system is not voluntary controlled. The digestive system is an involuntary system; so whether you eat or don’t eat, it is still going to secrete gastric juices, pepsin and hydrochloric acids, which digest the remains on the lining of the stomach. Meaning, the feces that is left on the lining of the stomach is being re-digested over and over again, which is why you have foul-smelling breath during Ramadan, that you seem to take so much pride in having.

Whats that supposed to mean dude?

I also would like to know where does it state, in the Koran, “you will be hated,” if you use toothpaste? With that stench in your mouth, during the fasting in Ramadan, you, Muhammadans should be running to the stores, grabbing all of the toothpaste off the shelves. Because the miswaks (little bark from trees that take like licorice) are not working. By the way, miswaks are very bad for your teeth, although you say Muhammad used it. Dentists today have proven that it only pushes your teeth back, making them loose and yellow. And, it does not contain any fluoride; therefore, it is not beneficial to your teeth, unless you want no teeth by the time you reach middle age.

Thanks for the advice once again caring brother.






@pilgrim

@babs787,

Repeating the same thing over and again is not new - Muslims often do this when they can't face up to their own denials. It's the trademark, and I wasn't expecting anything better than that from you. Making excuses about Telly B's questions that you couldn't answer is not the befitting thing for a man your age to post in a public Forum - it makes you sound like a helpless child seeking sympathy for lost toys.

Really? I am not surprised at your post. It has been your trade mark and I told you in my last post that by the time am through with you, you will regret coming on board. I am not making an excuse, If you are not satisfied and very sure of what you are saying about Telly B, you may bring up the thread and lets view it together.

However, as many times as you want to play this game, the same answers that I've already offered to Sura 19:71 will be presented:

Like I said, I have not been around for sometime now but you felt that you can capitalize on my absence to be posting what you feel like. By the time I open threads specifically for you and I, you will regret coming up with threads against BABS.

Quote from: pilgrim.1 on July 28, 2007, 11:28 PM
You will find my answers already offered to your questions in the thread "Moslems Are You Ready To Commit Suicide?" Please follow these links and read them carefully:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1300770
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464


WHERE IS THE VERSE IN THE QUR'AN THAT MENTIONS THE BRIDGE OVER HELL?

I dont need to check those links because I have provided explanation but you are up to mischief. Nobody is seeing you now but you will start saying that Babs is deriding your faith when I start with you. When trouble sleep, yanga go go wake am, and when you wake am finish, you no go fit control am.



And what about the Muslim translators who know that verse does not speak of "passing over" but translate it as:

"except that he will go (herded) down to it" - (Dr. M.M. Ghali)

"shall descend into the same [hell]" - (Sale)

"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it" - (Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish)

Where did Yusuf Ali, Muhsin & Khan (Hilali-Khan) and others like them get the idea of "passing over" Hell to justify their own particular slants to that verse (Sura 19:71)?

There is no mention of any bridge over hell in the Qur'an; nor did the Qur'an say that Muslims are going to "pass over" Hell. It clearly states that they are going to be taken into Hell (ENTER it, go down to it, be herded down to it).


Good. you know that muslims have explained but you are ready to wise up. Let me apply the same method to your bible and you must explain to me too because muslims have explained to you.



Please try to explain the below translations from different versions of the bible.


1.

What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13)


KJV said it was an angel
According to King James Version, it was an angel


WHILE
According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird).

Please provide explanation.



2.

What was the age of Saul when he began to reign?

In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years.

New International Version (NIV) says he was[b] 30.[/b]

Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while

in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown

The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible.


Please explain the difference in the versions of the bible.

So there.

Pretend all you want as if you suddenly can no longer read. If you care, please go to those links and be the man you've been crying 'salam brothers' every time you want cheap applause from your brethren. NONE of them has yet been able to oblige an answer to the single question of the verse in the Qur'an for the BRIDGE over Hell. Embarrassing, is it? Not my worry - the Qur'an claims to be a "fully detailed" book with nothing left out of it. Where in the Qur'an is the bridge over Hell that has been left out of it?

You are just wasting your time. I for one explained to you but you are not ready to learn and when I found out that you are not ready to learn, I gave you translation from different versions of your bible in which you should please try and explain as muslims have done to your questions.


Now you may be denying the fact that muslims have explained to you but its just that you are not satisfied, so common dont act like a coward, explain those versions for me too.

You sabi play games, abi? You never start as yet.

I gave you a verse that says they will pass over. Please explain to me from that verse, what will they 'pass over'? You havent seen nothing yet, by the time I go digging into the bible, you will regret starting the verse.

Enjoy.

Sure

And when you are through with my questions, you will explain the other verses from the four books from different versions of your bible.

@babyosis

Insert Quote
babs,na wetin I do you?
leave me alone and get busy with your own iyawo or iyawos
so that we can celebrate the new arrival too

Yes we have been celebrating and we will continue doing same.
I cant leave you alone ooo. Hope you havent forgotten that I am still keen on hijacking you from that Igbo man.

I have been saving in order to overthrow him and I know that I will succeed. Abi no be so?.

haven't you noticed I'm now a good "African woman" and here you are tempting me

Honestly I noticed that and I am very happy for that development, keep it up . I need to tempt you , Its not good to hide God's work. When you see a good thing, you must say it out. Abi I lie? I know that you are not a lady, no thanks to my Igbo kwenu friend.

@pilgrim

I'm still asking that you give me the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned the "bridge" over Hell fire - has ANY Muslim done so? Where is the verse, babs787?

Calm down, as we proceed, I will be bringing out some verses from different versions of your bible. So you cant use your initiative because Allah didnt mention the word 'BRIDGE'. If He didnt mention it, please what are people 'passing over'

And why are you pretending that I have not answered your questions on Sura 19:71? Have you checked out the weblinks I left you? Please go there and see for yourself the usual dribbling that Muslims make when they are faced with their own denials - which again is the same attempt you're trying to make here.

In all honesty, I have not checked and didnt bother to check because I for one provided explanation and even referred you and David to the explanation on same. It will even do you good if you can lay your hands on Ibn Kathir translation of the Holy Quran rather than making mockery of yourself.

Nobody is denying anything and will never do but you are the mischievous one that is not ready to accept explanation. Like I said, you and David have been posing same for some days and all efforts trying to checkmate you proved abortive even after having given you explanations. You know babs, by the time I start with you giving you verses from your bible, you and David will regret ever starting the debate. I have not even done that when you said that I was deriding Jesus and your faith. You will start a thread and when muslims start giving you verses from your bible, you will start saying all sort of things.


I decided to soft-pedalled because of some christians here

Quran 5 v 82: verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers the Jews and those who are Al mushrikins and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say[b] 'we are christians'[/b]. This is because amongst them are priests and monks and they are not proud.

Babs787, don't play games by trying to distract this issue. The case is clear; your answers are flawed; and you have not answered the question I left you. Playing games. . . tsk, tsk. . . e no go work with me sam-sam.

I am not playing games and will never do that, since muslims have explained and you are not ready to accept the explanation. I posed those verses to you to help me out by explaining to me like muslims have done to verse 19 v 71.

You yourself know very well that I answered you, provided you with explanation too but your denial will not work and your pranks reminds me of nossycheeks and Telly B.

Nossycheek posted some Quran verses claiming they are contradictions but muslims explained the verses to her without even diverting the topic but funny enough, when I opened similar thread with the title 'NOT REALLY CONTRADICTIONS; Telly B diverted when he couldnt provide explanations to the verses from the bible and gave me some alleged quranic contradictions and claimed that I must answer him before he would answer my questions.

Same goes when I posed some questions on the deity of Jesus and all he could do again was diverted the topic and asked me questions.

So yours is not coming as a surprise, muslims have provided explanation to you though you are not satisfied but please try to explain the verses from different versions of your bible.


Since you are running from my questions, I will limit them to just two which you must provide explanation as muslims have done.


1.

What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13)


According to King James Version, it was an angel

According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird).

Please provide explanation.

KJV said it was an angel while others said it was an eagle or a bird, please explain. Is there any relationship between an angel and eagle/bird?

Try to provide explanation as muslims have done.


2.

What was the age of Saul when he began to reign?

In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years.

New International Version (NIV) says he was 30.

Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while

in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown

The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible.

I need explanation on the above too since the versions are not saying same thing. Which is the truth.


Provide expalanation as muslims have done.


Thanks

@babyosis

Insert Quote
congrats oyb on the new baby.
so you have a wife?
someone's been busy in between nairaland posts
tell her a certain lady babyosisi, says hello and sends her love.

Are you really A LADY? . Remember, thou shall not lie . You are a lady or an African woman?

I hope you've started learning how to change diapers and make a formula
madam needs all the help she can get.
good health for mom and baby.

You should have told us that you are a nurse or are you telling us that so that we will know that you gone through that process too?

@pilgrim

Babs787, why the pretences? I've already answered in the previous page and left you links there to go read my answers to your questions. Have you done so? Why are you repeating yourself and pretending you didn't see my answers in the previous page? Why are you deliberately evading the question I asked?

Here again is what I left you earlier:


Quote from: pilgrim.1 on July 28, 2007, 11:28 PM
You will find my answers already offered to your questions in the thread "Moslems Are You Ready To Commit Suicide?" Please follow these links and read them carefully:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1300770
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464


WHERE IS THE VERSE IN THE QUR'AN THAT MENTIONS THE BRIDGE OVER HELL?

And what about the Muslim translators who know that verse does not speak of "passing over" but translate it as:

"except that he will go (herded) down to it" - (Dr. M.M. Ghali)

"shall descend into the same [hell]" - (Sale)

"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it" - (Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish)

Where did Yusuf Ali, Muhsin & Khan (Hilali-Khan) and others like them get the idea of "passing over" Hell to justify their own particular slants to that verse (Sura 19:71)?

There is no mention of any bridge over hell in the Qur'an; nor did the Qur'an say that Muslims are going to "pass over" Hell. It clearly states that they are going to be taken into Hell (ENTER it, go down to it, be herded down to it).

You know that muslims gave explanations but you are not satisfied, so please provide explanation to the below questions again from different versions of the bible


1.

What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13)


According to King James Version, it was an angel

According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird).

Please provide explanation.

KJV said it was an angel while others said it was an eagle or a bird, please explain. Is there any relationship between an angel and eagle/bird?



2.

What was the age of Saul when he began to reign?

In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years.

New International Version (NIV) says he was 30.

Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while

in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown

The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible.

I need explanation on the above too since the versions are not saying same thing. Which is the truth.

@pilgrims


You know that muslims have provided enough answers but you and your cohorts are not satisfied as a result of your mischief.

So please dont act like a coward, provide me explanations to the verses from different versions of the bible.

may Allah grant him wisdom and may he follow in his father's footstep and theways of the Prophet of Allah

Allahu Amin.

Still on Quran 19 v 71


@pilgrims, David, Vicjustice, babyosis, nossycheeks and other christian apologists


I have provided explanation to the Surah and you said that you would provide the contradictions, please do.

With regards to the above,, I supplied you verses from your bible where versions are saying different things, common, dont act like a coward do justice to my questions.

When you are still providing explanations to my questions, do justice to the below veses from different versions too.


We will see who will get tired at the end.

Please when you are through with 19 v 71, provide explanation to these too.


         
Where was the denial made?



IN THE BOOK OF MATHEW

King James Version

Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch



Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch



Good News Bible

Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard



New Living Translation


Mathew 26v71: , out by the GATE



The Gideon Bible


Mathew 26v71: …gone out to the GATEWAY




IN THE BOOK OF MARK


King James Version

Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch



Revised Standard Version


Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway



Good News Bible


Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage



New Living Translation


Mark 14v68: …went out into the ENTRY WAY



The Gideon Bible

Mark 14v68: ….he went out on the PORCH



IN THE BOOK LUKE



King James Version



Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall.



Revised Standard Version


Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard



Good News Bible

Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard



New Living Translation

Luke 22v55: the guards lit a fire in the COURTYARD…Peter joined them.


The Gideon Bible

Luke 22v55: Peter sat among them in the COURTYARD


Please provide explanation to the above.

NB: we are still on 19 v 71


Take care.

@Doyenn & Muhsin


Salam brothers.

May Allah be pleased with you. Please leave them alone, they are not ready to wise up and they should thank their star that Babs has been very busy. A dog that wants to get lost will not listen to its Master's whistle.





@Pilgrims, Davidylan, nossycheeks and other christian apologists


Like I said earlier, I dont want to be giving you biblical verses again but learnt that you are not ready to accept explanation and as a result of that I came with some verses in which you must explain them to me from the bible.

Muslims here have explained 19 v 71 but you are not satisfied and as a result of that, I came up with just two verses out of very many from your bible.

Like I do say, he who live in glass house must not throw stone

Still on Quran 19 v 71.

Please I want you to explain these verses to me


1.

What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13)


According to King James Version, it was an angel

According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird).

Please provide explanation.


2.

What was the age of Saul when he began to reign?

In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years.

New International Version (NIV) says he was 30.

Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while

in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown

The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible.

Please provide explanation to the above.



Still on 19 v 71, when you provide explanation to the above, I will provide you verses from different versions that go against each other.

Take care.

@david

the problem is the quran itself has a problem of what is the actual correct translation. This version you are conveniently quoting simply because it suits your lame explanation says "pass over it", however others actually say the TRUE TRANSLATION should read "go down into it" while another translation talks of "see it".

Where is the connotation of a bridge in those 2 well documented versions?

Brother, I have been trying as much as possible to ignore your posts but felt like replying youwhen i noticed that you are still wallowing in your mischief.

Have you compare verses in some versions of the bible to another? Did they use same words, phrase in the versions? Despite these, you are still claiming that they have same meanings and if you decide to press further, I can give you verses where a version made mention of a bird, another angel and another saying something else. Please let me know if you need the verses and I will supply.


Also below is part of what your brother Gwaine said when trying to explain the contradictions in the bible:


Many Bible commentators make the mistake of taking Jesus' words in John 3:13 as pointing to His ascension after He would rise from the dead. But that is a weak premise, because the preceding contexts do not bear it out in precisely that context. Rather, Jesus made the statement about the ascension immediately following His words contrasting earthly and heavenly things. Nicodemus' surprised reaction as well indicates that what he heard from Jesus was entirely outstanding.





@pilgrim

With all due respect, please observe again that you have answered that question yourself as highlighted in your quote.

I should rather be asking you this question: "If the Qur'an does not mention any bridge over hell, where did you get the idea that there was a bridge?"

If the Quran didnt mention any bridge, please what are they passing over?

I'll do so as soon as you tell me where in the Qur'an there was a bridge mentioned. How you could be asking me to explain the bridge that is not found in the Qur'an is something we first need to sort out.

Please do ASAP, I want to learn from you. Let me have the contradictions.

The Qur'an does not mention any bridge. QED.

Let me have the explanation please


Thanks

@pawpaw

Insert Quote
Islam and christianity does not agree with all this stupid fight you people are fighting here. Let God fight for you, as a pastor I know this is what I preach. Stop this Islam and christian war before God sent fire to Naija.

Brother, nobody is fighting, I was only replying to allegation levelled against my prophet and religion by some apologists.

None of the two religion supported the killings, but Babs had to reply when some of the apologist felt that they knew everything and can post anything they feel like.




@Horus

Quote
Okay. You are confused because you never understand verses 2v 25, 76 v 12 and 76 v 17. So you can buy the materials and take them to heaven provided you believe in it.
It is Muslims like you who are confused,you did not noticed that All of these materials can be obtained right here on Earth.
There is No need to go to your heaven to obtain materials that you can buy in a shop near your home.

Agreed sir. You have enough materials here on earth. You just go anywhere and get yours

The Koran is filled with fictitious places that they (Muslims) cannot identify. You are so busy saying that I don’t know what I am talking about, you obviously never examined your Koran. The Koran is full of promises and fairy tale places that you don’t really know or can prove exists.

The Koran makes promises of “. . . gardens beneath which rivers flow . . .” (2:25) or promises “garments of silk and reclining in the garden on raised thrones.” (76:12) There are promises of drinks called zanjabil-a and “braces of silver” (76:17). All of these materials can be obtained right here on Earth.

Once again, I concur Sir. You have the materials here on earth.



@Pilgrim


In addition to my earlier post, I have decided to add a flavour to it to make u understand that christianity started with the sword. I didnt want to go into this before but since you, David, Vicjustice et all believed that you know everything and can post anything, I felt like giving you just to mention few and bring you down to memory lane.

If you had noticed, babs has not been posting biblical verses just because of some christians here that have been trying to bridge the gap of understanding between the two religions but had to reply cos you felt that you know everything and can say whatever you feel.

With regards to the issue at hand, let me give some examples to show you that Islam go against ill treatment of non muslims and after that I will make you read stories where christianity was spread by swords.

Happy reading.



P. Bayle, a respected and  unbiased christian writer declared  in 1850 that : ' the Mahometans  (Muslims, more appropriately,  addition ours), have been  tolerating other religions for some  centuries past'. On the other hand,  'the christians' he further  declared,, 'have been exterminating  by fire and sword all those who are  not of their religion, ' we (christians)  he concluded in a somewhat tone of  lamentation, 'enjoy the fine  advantage of being far better versed  than others in the art of killing,  bombarding and exterminating the  Human Race'.

Let us examine few instances where  muslims have tolerated christians in  wars and peace times in the  historical past.

first, in 628 AC (prior to the treaty  of Hudaibiyah) the prophet (saw)  granted to the christians who were  living in Medina and its environs a  charter, which was a MONUMENT  OF ENLIGHTENED TOLERATION.  The charter was contained in a letter  he addressed to the Muslims which  reads: This article has been written  to indicate the word promised to all  the christians by Muhammed (saw),  the son of Abdullah. It should be  known that Allahu Taa'la heralded  me as His mercy and made me the  keeper of His trust upon human  beings".

'If a christian priest or a traveler is  fasting as an act of worship on a  mountain, in a valley, in a desert, on  green lands, in low places or in sand,  I, together with my friends, my  assistants and all of my nation have  abrogated all sorts of obligations on  them. I show respect towards them  and they are uner my guardianship.  I have exempted them from all taxes  that they have to pay in accordance  with the treaty we have established  with other christians. Let them be  exempted from paying any tribute or  only pay as much as they desire'.

'Do not use force or compusion on  them. Do not dismiss their religious  leaders from their posts. Do not  force them out of their places of  worship. Do not prevent them from  traveling. Do not damage any part of  their churches or monastries, Do  not take any part out of their  crops  for the treasury of the state. This is  because their agriculture is only for  feeding themselves not for trade. If it  is necessary to collect Jizya from  them, do not collect more than 12  dirham (gram) a year, no matter  how rich they are or how much  property they have. They are not to  be imposed with any trouble or  hardship. If you have to negotiate  with them, they should they should  be treated kindly, mercifully and  compassionately. Keep  them always  under your merciful and  compassionate wings,


In the spirit of this toleration  towards the non-muslims, therefor,  when the pagan Mecca fell to the  hands of the Prophet (saw), after the  pagans had violated the Treaty of  Hudaibiyah, he treated them to their  greatest surprise with generosity and  compassion.He forgot the past and  forgave them for almost 21 year  atrocities they had committed  against the muslims. This tolerant  attitude of the prophet won the heart  of the pagan Meccans such that they  all willingly accepted Islam.


Hadrat Umar Bin Al-Khattab,  granted the inhabitants of the city of  Ilya a charter. The city was under  his rule during his caliphate. And its  inhabitants were predominatly  christiand. The charter was equally  contained in a letter umar wrote.

'This letter has been written in  regards to their (christians)  properties, lives, churches, children,  the sick the healthy as well as for  other nations,

'the muslims will not enter their  churches, burn or damage their  churches, pull down any parts of  their churches, collect even one  grain from their properties, force  them to become muslims or to  change the way of their worshipping  or their religion. They will not be  subjected to even the least  ill-treatment by Muslims. In case  they leave, (the city) of their own  will, they will be given a guarantee  for their lives, properties and  chastity until they arrive at their  destination,

etc,


Another act of muslims tolerance in  war times was displayed when the muslims recaptured the historic city  of Jerusalem from the christians. the  city, historically speaking remained  in the hands of the christiand for 88  years (1099-1187). shortly after, it  fell to the hands of the muslims  under the able leadership of brave  Salahuddin Ayyubi (1138-1193).  during this battle, the so called Lion  hearted king richard of England who  was one of those that butchered the  defenseless muslims in bloody  crusades launched earlier against  Islam, was taken as a prisoner of  war. But surprisingly, the great  Salahuddin was very kind and  compassionate towards him.  Richard was treated as if he was still  a king, not a prisoner of war unlike  the treatment meted out to Noriega  by America.

intolerance of christians and others

Over time, christiand missionaries  and other apologists of the  christendom have presented  christianity as a tolerant and  peaceful religion. But objective  Weestern and non-western sources  have proved otherwise. Hence,  Thomas Paine an unbiased western  writer, once stated without fear of  contradiction thus, ' some christians  pretend that christianity was not  established by the sword but of what  period of time do they speak?. It was  impossible that 12 men (referring to  the disciples of jesus) could begin  with sword. They had not the power  but no sooner were the professors of  christianity sufficiently powerful to  employ the sword than they did so,  and the stake and the lance too.

He stated further, 'besides this,  christianity grounds itself originally  upon the bible and the bible was  established altogether by the sword  and that in the worst use of it, not to  terrify but to extirpate, it is then  false to say that christianity was not  established by the sword.  (see the  Age of reason page 161)

In the same vein, F. Schoun, another  western, writer commented that,  ;Islam is often reproached with  having propagated its faith by  sword, what is overlooked is, that  persuasion played a much greater  part than war played a much greater  part than war in the expansion of  Islam as a whole; , that the God of  the Old Testament is no less a  warrior than the God of the Quran;  and that christians also made use of  the sword.  In fact, as we have  already demonstrated in last but one  segment (i.e islamic wars for  aggression or defence?) the much  talked about 'physical islamic sword'  was used to efend, protect and  preserve Islam against the  destructive tendencies and missions  of paganism and other religions.

In this regard, anonymous western  sources have recorded that shortly  after the end of paganism in europe,  the conversion of the Germanic and  Danish people in the 4th and 10th  centuries left millions of people  dead. This was because the christian  crusaders used violence, fire and  sword as major instrument of  evangelization.

Similar tale of woes was recorded on  the brutal conversion of Norway.  The country was said to be  converted to christianity by one Olaf  via the use of fire and sword.  Ironically, for this brutal,  christianization of the Norwegians,  Olaf was later given the descriptive  title' the saint'.

In the middle ages, series of crusades  were launched against the muslims  in the holy city of jerusalem. In the  bloody one executed in the 11th  century for example, Muslims were  cruelly persecuted and exterminated  by the christian crusaders at the  instigation of Pope Urban 11 who  reinged between 1088-1099. The  crusaders fought against the  muslims with the swords in their  hands and the christian crosses on  their shields. Emperors, kings and  other noble  men of the christendom  were not left out. These  included the  German Emperors, Friedrich  Barbarossa 11, Konrad 111 and  Henrich vii; the king of Britain, lion  hearted Richard. Also included were  the king of france, Philip Auguste  and saint Louis as well as the king of  Hungary; andreas ii. These cruel  men of fame displayed prodigies of  senseless valour whereby rivers of  blood flowed.

Commenting on this barbaric  theateric display of bloodbath, one  Michaudin, a christian writer wrote  thus: ' in the year 492 A.H. (1099)  the crusaders entered the city of  jerusalem successfully. As soon as  they stepped into the city, they  slaughtered 70,000 people among  the muslims and jews. muslim  women and children who had  gathered in their mosques were  killed mercillessly. Human blood  flooded the streets of the city and the  streets were also blocked up with  dead bodies. the crusaders were so  blood thirsty that while they were on  the shores of the Rhine in Germany,  they slaughtered 10,000 jews there .


etc,


Also find out about the war that broke in the 16th  century between the catholics and  the protestants.

Find out what happened in 1703 in Montenegro where  muslims were murdered in cold  blood.



When you are through, get in tough.


Thanks.

@Horus

Let’s analyze this (casting of pebbles at the devil) situation. Here you have thousands of hot Muslims gathered around three stone pillars, desperately trying to get there twenty-one stones inside of the pits. If you really took the time to analyze this you would see that this ritual had to have been man-made, unless you think that your God, “Allah” would set you up to get hurt.

If it is man-made, who invented it?

Think about it, thousands of pilgrims are all gathered around these pits, throwing rocks. That means thousands of rocks, some large, are being thrown towards the front and all of the people in the front are getting knocked in the head. Is any body shouting a prayer for these people?

Getting knocked in the head

Funny dude

@vicjustice

Davidylan, there's this remarkable wisdom in every comment of yours, you seem to have your way of answering these uncivilized questions from these unreasonable muslims. But, how come you know so much about them and their deceitful Koran, or, were you once a muslim, yourself?

Is that the truth about David? He really knew so much about ISLAM

pilgrims

@babs787,

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
Where was it spread by sword or are you referring to 'sword of intellectuals"

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk 52, # 73:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the the shades of swords."

Let me have the full quotation with the commentary please.

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
Brother, I will advise you to stop your allegation because as we proceed i will shed lights on the missionaries that killed people as a result of not accepting the doctrine of trinity.

The NT does not ask anyone to go kill people for not accepting the doctrine of the Trinity. If it does, please offer us the verses where Christians are asked to go kill people for not believing in the Trinity. We know that both in the Qur'an and the Hadiths, Muhammad sought to spread Islam by the sword, and you can't deny that.

Hey, those that killled, killed in the name of christ just like you have been labelling those that have killed as muslims. You can never deny that, they killed in order to make the doctrine of trinity acceptable and their success brought the acceptance of doctrine of trinity to some christians and same was inserted in some bibles. To them, they believed that they fought for God or Jesus. You can never deny that.


Okay, the NT didnt say such. Let me ask you, is God of the OT not the same as that of the NT? If God of the NT didnt ask anyone to go killing, but that of OT did huh? So is God of the OT different from NT? Why did God of the OT killed people but that of NT didnt?


Below are some from the link vicjustice supplied with regards to God of the OT.

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13



I wonder why God of the OT ordered killing of innocent men, women, animals etc

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
Some were killed for some reasons

People have killed in both Islam and Christianity. Those who killed in the name of Jesus Christ have done so in disregard of the teachings of Christ; while those who have killed (and continue to kill) have done so in obedience the direct injunctions found in both the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

Hey, what do you mean by in disregard to the teachings of christ. Havent you been saying that Jesus is the same as God, So he must have been the God of the OT too. In the OT, we recorded great number of killings sanctified by God of the OT in which I gave you some verses where same were recorded. Now, you claimed that killings in Islam is in obedience to the injunction found in the Quran despite the fact that I have quoted several verses and Hadith where Allah goes against taking of another soul but quick at denying the facts that those that killed in Christianity does so in order to make Christianity strong. There are verses in the OT buttressing my saying.

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
Also christianity was spread by force in the olden days when our fathers were forced to convert or forfeit employment

Try not dancing around the issue. The Bible never asked Christians to spread Christianity by force or stop anyone's employment for not converting to become Christians. Whether in the olden days or at the present, Islam is being interpreted by Muslim clerics as a religion which must be spread by force and violence, and these interpretations are taken directly from the Qur'an and the Sunnah of Muhammad himself.

You are the one dancing round issues. Those that did same did it in the name of christianity and do so in order to spread your religion. You said Islam was spread by force or violence, please was it spread by violence or force in Indonesia, Malaysia, America, Britain etc? Have you for one day heard that Arabs or Muslims forced the religion on them before acceptance?

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
they go as far as compelling non christians to change and accept christianity before being accepted into schools

That may well be in some circumstances; but who has killed any Muslim for not becoming Christians in such cases?

It has happened in which I have provided some examples. We have cases of parents killing their children for denouncing christianity as a religion. Just one example out of many, christian parents killed beat their daughter to death for accepting Islam.It happened in Kwara Polytechnic.

Who has bombed Muslims or threathened their lives for not converting to Christianity?Is that what Christ taught?

What did christ teach? Please tell me so I know where to come in.

When you look closely at Islam being practised according to Muhammad's teachings, the case is even worse in Islamic societies. We know already about reports of Muslims trying to force Christians to convert to Islam at the threat of their lives and properties - and these are the very same things Muhammad taught!

Muhammed never taught muslims to compel people into accepting Islam. He who disturb the peace or threatens another is not a muslim

Quran 2 v 256: There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right path hs become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghul and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All- Hearer, All- Knower.

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
These and many more.

How many more? Please take a look at what is happening from within the Muslim camp before trying to offer your usual antics.

Please what is happening in the muslim camp, I want to learn from you.

Quote from: babs787 on July 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
So if you feel like continuing, the door is wide opened for you

You don't have a case - Islam teaches violence, and that is what Muslims today are practising in the true spirit of what Muhammad taught.

Islam does not teaches violence but JUSTICE if you must know. The prophet never taught muslims to take another soul.



he Koran is filled with fictitious places that they (Muslims) cannot identify. You are so busy saying that I don’t know what I am talking about, you obviously never examined your Koran. The Koran is full of promises and fairy tale places that you don’t really know or can prove exists.
The Koran makes promises of “. . . gardens beneath which rivers flow . . .” (2:25) or promises “garments of silk and reclining in the garden on raised thrones.” (76:12) There are promises of drinks called zanjabil-a and “braces of silver” (76:17). All of these materials can be obtained right here on Earth.

@babs787,

Congratulations. Now you can backslap as much as you want. After reading the above, please keep playing your mischievous games.


Bird of a feather. I thought you should reason differently from Horus but alas you showed the other side of yourself too. You comment on what Horus said but having forgotten that there are issues in your Revelation which you will never be able to answer. Eg Lion with seven heads, Dragon, Lamb etc but you know babs, it is just I have been very busy but when time permits I will shed lights on some issues in christianity but the funny aspect is that when I start, it is then you will start crying that babs is deriding your faith.




@Horus

The Koran is filled with fictitious places that they (Muslims) cannot identify. You are so busy saying that I don’t know what I am talking about, you obviously never examined your Koran. The Koran is full of promises and fairy tale places that you don’t really know or can prove exists.

The Koran makes promises of “. . . gardens beneath which rivers flow . . .” (2:25) or promises “garments of silk and reclining in the garden on raised thrones.” (76:12) There are promises of drinks called zanjabil-a and “braces of silver” (76:17). All of these materials can be obtained right here on Earth.

Okay. You are confused because you never understand verses 2v 25, 76 v 12 and 76 v 17. So you can buy the materials and take them to heaven provided you believe in it.





@vicjustice

Check this site out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TsDmHhzWks

Hey, funny enough, I browsed through the link to see any quotes from maybe Quran or whatever but nothing of such but was just individual discussion.

Also, Check out this site and see how good Muhammad and Islam is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMc3XMB6ZZg

I have done that and below are part of what I saw there.

the deviljews bible say You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13



Moses hate the jews !! he killed 3000 of the devils in one go!
Exodus 32:26

Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, "Who is on the LORD's side? Come to me!" And all the sons of Levi gathered around him. He said to them, "Thus says the LORD, the God of "israel", "Put your sword on your side, each of you! Go back and forth from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor.

If every religion teaches violence like Islam, i wonder if the world would be in existence by now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

I tried opening the link but didnt see anything with regards to what you said. Please provide me the link again supported with Quranic verses.



Thanks

@Mustay & Mukina et all.


May Allah be pleased with you. Thanks for keeping the thread going. I have not been around and very busy too. But when I am through, Insha Allah, I will bounce back.

May Allah continue to shower His blessings on us all and make our feet stand on the path of Islam.


Maa Salam.

@davidylan


You went offline and as result will not attend to your childish post. You have been known to always go the other way round when it comes to attending to issues.


One question for you


Let me have the lists of poest, intellectuals that he killed



as for vicjustice


Let him post his response.

@Horus

If God so loved the world, why didn't he come himself instead of sending his only begotten son?

Some christians believe that it was God himself that left the heaven, came to earth, took human form, eat and drink like we and allowed his creation to kill him. He shouted to himself for forsaken him on the cross.

So he didnt send his begotten son but himself because some say that Jesus is God. So he must have sent himself.


God is three in one so they say. God is the father, God is the son, God is the Holy spirit but at the same time, these three are not equal


Also in the bible, blasphemy against the Holy spirit has no forgiveness but blasphemy against son of man has forgiveness. This goes to show that the doctrine of trinity was a later insertion which prophets before Jesus never preached. There is a clear difference between the three.

@vicjustice

Then, why was Islam spread with the sword? What is the definition for Jihad, doe it mean peace? So, where is the peace in Islam?

Where was it spread by sword or are you referring to 'sword of intellectuals"

Brother, I will advise you to stop your allegation because as we proceed i will shed lights on the missionaries that killed people as a result of not accepting the doctrine of trinity.

Some were killed for some reasons

Also christianity was spread by force in the olden days when our fathers were forced to convert or forfeit employment

they go as far as compelling non christians to change and accept christianity before being accepted into schools

These and many more.

So if you feel like continuing, the door is wide opened for you

Thanks

i tire for gunner haters

we go surprise you all this season

most of you dey yarn dust cos we no buy players like our competitors but i trust so much in Arsene

I am gunner fan but I think he will surely come. The reason for saying this is that the guy gave his club some conditions which i think they make not likely approve eg increment in allowane among others and as a result of that, he may leave for gunners

The guy is interested in coming so he is looking for ways to dump his club for gunners