₦airaland Forum

@aproko

yes, i meant alms.

ok

i don't think alms should be equated to tithes because the tithes are for the church (not sure if the church here actually means the pastor Undecided Undecided).

Tithes for church, how please? And how does christian community care for the poor?

but somehow i noticed that a lot of muslims have focused on the part that says give alms at their own detriment. so i actually encourage wealth creation seminars for muslims so that those begging for alms can get up and work and for once be the givers.

Lot of muslims!!!. No way sister. Islam kicks against laziness. Now, if you are saying muslims beg for alms, don't we have Christians that beg for alms too?

@bari_kade

There are other meanings of jihad that need to be addressed, especially the aspect of armed military warfare.

Can you please serve me the other meanings?

One may be willing to take your persuasion of non-hostility if only that is what Muhammad taught. However, it is clear that Muhammad did not believe in his own tenets and was hostile to his last breath against Christians and Jews. The result of that hostility is still evident today in the Muslim mindset of the Middle Easterners who want to see Israel destroyed!

You make me laugh with this your non-hostility. Did Muhammed kill christians during his time and in all honesty, can you tell me why muslims fought during his time and when you are through with that, other issues will come in from your bible.

Thanks




@Telly B

@abdulg,

What about the meaning of jihad as pointing to Islamic military warfare?

Let us have the verses please and the reason behind the verses. When you finish serving me, I will take you to some verses in the bible where Jesus ordered the killing of everything that breathes including kids and animals and we will look into why some violent acts in the bible.

@Telly B

@topic,

Actually, it is not as simplistic an issue between the Qur'an and the aHadith. There are FOUR sources of Islamic doctrine and social views, known as the fundamental principles (usul):


(a) Qur'an - the word of Allah
(b) Sunnah - the traditions and sayings of Muhammad
(c) ijma - the consensus
(d) ijtihad - individual thoughts

A lot of people may known about the Qur'an and Hadith/Sunnah. However, not many are aware about the ijma. Introduced in the 2nd century AH (i.e., the 8th century AD), the doctrine of ijma cannot be questioned once a "concensus" has been reached. The crucial thing here is that accepted interpretations of the Qur'an and the actual contents of the Sunnah (Hadith) all rest finally on the ijma. Of course, this does not mean that the ijma has any authority at par with the Qur'an. Rather, it simply upholds the interpretations of the Qur'an in their finality.

So, here it is not merely a question between the Qur'an and Hadith; but the other sources must be included in the fundamental principle (usul)as sources of Islamic doctrine and social views.

Meaning?

Indeed there are so many Muslim practices that are outside the Qur'an. But of those which we do know, they are not entirely divorced from the Qur'an or Hadith. The one thing that settles any an Islamic injunction is the ijma - the consensus; and that has to be carefully and painstaingly deliberated upon before they are offered to the ummah (Muslim community).

You amuse me a lot. Have you pondered on some things practised by christians which are in no way in the bible?

@bari_kade,


Thanks for the wonderful post.

@aproko

do muslims believe in wealth creation or they believe the rich should feed the poor?i guess that may account for why there aren't too many seminars because a lot of the muslims just wait for arms. i hope my opinion is not misinformed though, and if it is i would like to be educated.

Sure Muslims believe in wealth creation and at the same time believe the rich should feed the poor through zakah. My sister don't you think that tithe should be treated in the same way zakat is treated?

Did you mean alms?

@Mustay

Insert Quote
@ Muki what about what you said you were going to post?
Where's belloti because i hope nothing is wrong with him. A[b]nd babs- after fa cup, i no hear am.[/b]
Anyway, I'll post some stuff later.

Brother, I have been very busy but will be back very soon.

@feelgood

This is to our muslim brethren: I observed from various threads in this board that you believe that Jesus, whom you regard as a great prophet, should be greatly respected, honoured and revered. But then I can't help but wonder why at the same time in many threads, you dishonour this same Jesus through many barbs, mockings, etc.

Thanks for the thread brother, you are just like goodguy, I wouldnt want this thread to develop into heated argument but will answer you in a respectable way you sent the post. Before we continue, let me have just one verse where I have dishonoured him and I will back it up with verses from both the Bible and the Quran. If we are to talk of those that have been insulting Jesus, christians should be held responsible for that. Now brother, grab the Quran, read Quran Chapter 3, Surah Imran and chapter 5, Surah Maidah. The two verses contain everything you may want to know about Jesus and when you are through brother, I will answer any question you want to ask me based on what you have read.

I dare say, it appears you are not bothered or troubled when the name of Jesus is blasphemed - even by the brothers (who seem to relish in this pasttime) - the way you would be if Muhammad was.

It is not that we are not bothered, but you can imagine a situation where someone is saying that Jesus is God, one of the triune etc and you expect me to defend that. Muslims will defend Jesus only if Christians accept him the way he should be accepted.

Or did the koran make a distinction between the prophets and made room for some allowances in behavior concerning any of them?

No brother, we believe in all prophets. Let me have the verses or posts where muslims have insulted him and I will back it up with verses from your bible.

Just a question from an ignorant observer. Mukina et al, are you there?

Babs is here

@stimulus

The facts boil down to one thing and one thing only: there's no jihad in the career of Jesus Christ, regardless your sweated and pained effort to interpret Biblical verses as such.

Ok, we shall see as we proceed.

# Did Jesus Christ go out to attack cities or promise damsels and booties for those who take up a jihad in His name?

Are you referring to God of the Ot or NT? In case you missed it, read below please.


2 Chronicles 15:13:All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.


Can you please explain the reason behind the killing?


Numbers 31:7,17-18: ""They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man, Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

What is the reason behind the killing?


Numbers 25 v 17: Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them,
18 because they treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the affair of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of Peor."


Can you please explain the above too?


Numbers 31 v 7-12: 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

Explain the above please.

# Is there any Hadith or even verse in the Qur'an that teaches that Jesus Christ went to war against people in just the same way that Muhammad did?

In case you missed the verses above, here is another verses for you.


Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2)


Why the killing and sharing of spoils?


N[b]ow therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.[/b] But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)


Can you explain the reason for the above killing?

Even Muslims, (in comparing the careers of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad based on Deut. 18:15 & 18 for 'the Prophet'), usually state that Muhammad was a military leader, while Jesus Christ was not! Grin

Take a look at the table of comparison in the following link, where Muhammad is clearly said to have gone after his enemies in hot pursuit with battles; while Jesus Christ did no such:


2. A Prophet Like Moses

Encounters with enemies:

Moses - Hot Pursuit

Muhammad - Hot pursuit w/ battles

Jesus - n/a

Source: http://www.bilderberg.org/crusade/Islam.htm

No matter how you argue this topic, you can't evade the fact that Muhammad was a warmonger who predicated paradise on warfare for Muslims.

Brother, you claimed that Muhammed was a warmonger, please explain the below verses and the reason for killing by your God Jesus of the OT.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)

He even ordered the killing of women


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)


Now Muhammed fought the pagans to repel oppression and never transgressed limit, but here God Jesus of the OT, ordering the killing of men, women, children and everything that breathes

Deuteronomy 20:16: However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.


Can you tell me why he ordered the killing of living things, even animals?



1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

Why did they kill woman, infant, sucking, oxen, sheep, camel and ass, please for what purpose and did those animals and the innocent children offend God?

By lumping up every Christian that way, you've displayed your seething bias and prejudice. The same arguments applies to your Muslim apologists who have jumped into threads and sought to ridicule Christianity. Go ask babs787 who has a second-to-none reputation for that on this Forum. He often advanced the excuse that he was only 'retaliating' until he was exposed for who he really was - his "tit-for-tat" games could not compare with his infelicity of referring to your own Muslim translators as "deluded authors that lied in order to deceive"!! I haven't seen any Muslim reaction to that on this Forum, other than the joke you guys often come with as highlighted in your quote above.

It is not my problem, you may shout from now till tomorrow for all I care. You keep mentioning babs as being the one that has been deriding your faith, give me just a verse where I have done that and I will back it with verses from both the bible and the Quran. I learnt that when you post anything about muslims, nobody cautions you nor do muslims accuse you of 'deriding' but when muslims ask any questions, you quickly conclude that they are deriding your faith. Babs has not been around now and you have not stopped you mischief, but trust me, when I am back, I will be back for good.



@noisycheek

I wonder who is not being reasonable here. Babs had his questions answered and talking about being insultive, I believe that you should know whom to direct that to. raheem,babs787, in case you pretend not to know.

Never mind, I have been trying to put things in order but when I am back, I will make this nairaland hot for you. . You are here accusing me of insulting you, let me have the posts and I will bring out those you have started.

As for your warrior, we have not seen much of him in recent times, but in case you want to replace him, you are welcome on board, anyday any time.
No shaking Cool

Like I told you, babs will soon be here for all of you. Keep sending your posts till I come your way.

@Telly B & chatycrew


I will use just a question to reply your question. Are you still saying the gospel in existence is the same as the one given to Jesus?

So when you supply the answer, we move forward from there

@ Telly B

The Genealogy records in Matthew and Luke have their characteristic wordings. In Matthew, it is said that "Jacob BEGAT Joseph" (a direct siring); but in Luke 3:23, it is rather that Joseph was "the was the son of Heli" (Jewish reckoning according to marital connections). The difference is that Luke does not claim that Heli directly sired Joseph.

Since you said that Luke didnt claim that Heli didnt directly sired Joseph, let us look at the genealogy below

S/ no Mathew 1 v 18 Luke 3 v 23

1 David David
2. Solomon Nathan
3 Rehoboam Mattatha
4. Abijah Menna
5. Asa Me-le-a
6. Jehoshaphat Eliakim
7. Joram Jonam
8. Uzziah Joseph
9. Jotham Juda
10. Ahaz Simeon
11. Hezekiah Levi
12. Manasseh Mathat
13. Amos Jorim
14. Josiah Eliezer
15. Jechoniah Joshua
16. Altiel Er
17. Zerubbabel Elmadam
18. Abiud Cosam
19 Eliakim Addi
20. Azor Melchi
21. Zadok Neri
22. Achim Shealtiel
23. Eliud Zerubbabel
24. Eleazar Rhesa
25. Matthan Joanan
26. Jacob Joda
27. Joseph Josech
28. Jesus Semein
29. Matathais
30. Maath
31. Nagai
32. Esli
33. Nahum
34. Amos
35. Mathathias
36. Joseph
37. Jannai
38. Melchi
39. Levi
40. Matthat
41. Heli
42. Joseph
43. Jesus.

Will you deny the genealogy above?

Brother, please attend to the remaining contradictions please

@babs787,

I'm quite used to people using your type of language; and at the end of the day, it only betrays the fact that they had nothing to offer. Okay, I'm deceiving myself. But even so, your ideas have been debunked and your fallacies exposed.


Ok brother, please forget the language used and attend to my questions.

Insert Quote
Quote from: babs787 on Today at 12:59:25 PM
You are the one dribbling yourself.

Okay. Does that say anything about the topic?

I replied your allegation.

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 12:59:25 PM
So thanks for that, what does it contain?

Get a copy.

It is not an issue of getting a copy but you telling me what it contains.

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 12:59:25 PM
Dont you ever think that you are smart. What does the Torah contain, is it not about Moses and the Jews?

I wasn't "smart" - I simply quoted from the Qur'an to show that you were wrong! The Qur'an did not call them "stories" - rather, it calls them the BOOKS of Moses!! If you have anything against that, please quote the qur'an. Thanks.

Brother, I can never be wrong but you are the confusing the whole issue. You are claiming that the Quran does not contain the Torah and I am asking you, if it does not, how come we are having everything about Moses and the Jew in the Quran?


Thanks

@Telly B

Insert Quote
@babs787,

Get a copy of the Torah, and you will see. If you don't get it, can you please state in simple terms what you understand by "TORAH"??

I donk know and I think you can provide me the answer. So what does it contain?

Insert Quote
You have your answers from the same Bible you have been quoting.

Can we now move on and forget the games, hmm?

Can you now tell me who's son is Joseph based on the two verses from the bible?

a. Mathew 1 v 16: and[b] Jacob[/b] the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.


b . Luke 3 v 23: Jesus when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli.


Thanks

@Telly B

Insert Quote
@babs787,

If you don't have answers, move on. The games of "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST" is for kids. Thanks.

Ok, please answer my questions ooo

@JERRYMANIA

Insert Quote
@ all

now we are turning away from speaking about the idea of trinity to Allah and polytheism!


I dont blame you at all. Did you see the topic? The thread was created about the deity of Jesus and I asked your folks question on same but rather than answer my questions, they quickly divert topic, typical escapist strategy.



@Telly B

Insert Quote
That is because we are challenging the accusations of the Qur'an against Christians and Jews that we are polytheists. So, we would like to know what they are in themselves, and amicably examine that issue from their books.

Brother if you can deceive yourself, you cant deceive me. You can see the topic of the thread and my questions were in line with the topic. So you should answer my questions and stop avoiding it. I have answered yours and you should rebut it and answer my questions.


Thanks

@Telly B

Insert Quote
@babs787,

If you could kindly set the dribbling aside, we can move on.

You are the one dribbling yourself.

The Jewish Torah are still avaiable today - and you can obtain a copy in any good bookshop, in precisely the same way that any copy of the Bible or Qur'an can be obtained.

So thanks for that, what does it contain?

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 11:56:07 AM
If the Torah is not included as part of the Quran, how come the story of Moses in the Quran?

You Qur'an does not call it the story of Moses; rather, it calls it the BOOKS OF MOSES or the BOOK of Moses!!

Quran 53:36 -- "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses" [Pickthall's tr.]

Trying to bring up the issue of "story" into the debate is denying the exact wording of the Qur'an. Thanks.

Dont you ever think that you are smart. What does the Torah contain, is it not about Moses and the Jews?

@Telly B

Please let me know when you're ready for answers. Games don't make you sound intelligent; rather, they betray your fallacies.

Nobody is playing game with you but you are the one doing same with yourself and confusing yourself

You have been saying that the Quran does not contain the Torah and am asking you, what does the Torah contain?

@Telly B

What does the Qur'an say? If you've got anything to say, please do.

I dont know but am asking you to supply me the answer from your bible


Thank you

@Telly B

I will answer your question the way you want it but please answer my questions above

@Telly B

Insert Quote
Amen - we can live together. But you didn't come up to state how you "don't fancy" the tit-for-tat that Muslims have used in speaking of Christian issues.

Are you blaming babs? You shoudnt do that. You should have look into all threads before tendering your grievance. Babs responded based on what he met. If you think that babs has been deriding your faith, sorry for that but you should have carried out your research properly and you would have found out that christians pushed babs into doing same. The number of threads opened by christians against muslims outnumbered that of the latter likewise that of posts too. Just like you a reacting, you cant expect babs to fold his hands while some are abusing my faith. We can all live in peace respecting each others faith.

I don't go out to deride anyone's religion; but when I post on any thread, it is because I know what I'm speaking about. If people (Muslims and Christians) are going to discuss, those who feel vexed at any issue should not stoop so low to play the "tit-for-tat" game. They can simply ignore threads that they've got nothing to say.

Brother same as my above explanation. Count the number of threads opened by your folks with regards to that of muslims and count number of defamatory posts too. If you call what I have been doing deriding your faith, well, I apologise but will want you to know all am doing in which you called deriding your faith have so far been from your bible. Nobody is vexed here, you should really examine yourself before accusing others of same.

@wormedup

Insert Quote
yeah, they were prophets just like adam and eve  

do u need a dictionary definition for "prophet"? since u've found leisure in ducking islamic thinking

Daddy its not what you may be thinking. I told your other sons in the likes of stimulus and davidylan that they were prophets but your sons denied the claim that they are not prophets.


Read davidylan posts

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam
« #98 on: May 09, 2007, 03:05 AM »

quote]job: Please read the book of Job, no where is Job refered to as a prophet. What message did God send through him and to whom?
noah: Again he was told to build the ark and was saved with his family BECAUSE HE OF ALL MEN ON EARTH WAS FOUND RIGHTEOUS. No where are we told he was a prophet.
david: Killed Goliath as a shepherd boy and eventually became King of Isreal. Where did Muhammad get the inspiration that David was a prophet?
abraham: Where in the book of Genesis is he refered to as a prophet? Here was a man who was called out from among his family and told to take a journey to a promised land he never entered. Was he a prophet to the desert, his wife, children and servants?
lot:   Now i know Muhammad seriously had issues! Lot a prophet?
jonah: Yes he was a prophet sent to the people of Nineveh. I'm sure you must know the story of Jonah in the whale's belly!
solomon: When was he made a prophet and by whom? King of Isreal after his father David. How did Muhammad come up with his appelation of "prophet" for solomon?
samson: No sir!

[/quote]and this too

[quote]: The Greatest Miracle In Islam
« #102 on: May 09, 2007, 01:11 PM »

Stop clinging to straws!    What about Lot, Noah, Samson, Job? Are they still "prophets"? We all know islam is only struggling for legitimacy by trying to force islamic reasoning into the bible or force biblical characters that have nothing to do with islam into the quran. Assuming Lot were even a prophet, what connection does he have with muslims and allah?
Go and answer the questions on the contradictions in the quran thread and stop hyperventilating. You escapist!

So you can see Daddy that I am in support of you.


@Davidylan

Dont you think that it is high time you left nairaland? You have been given knocks on several ocassions .

I tire for you oooooo

@wormedup

Insert Quote
no son, i'm not angry. disappointed maybe.
i have been going around with the belief u should know more than u portray.

I am very sorry sir, its not what you may be thinking.


i guess u still have a chance to set things right so once again, what's so flummoxing to you ?


Okay, thank you Daddy. You advise is highly appreciated and noted.

@Nosicheeks

Insert Quote
@goodguy

thanks for educating blabs oooo. May be you will go a little further than that since he appears to be a good student at least to you. Well done At least this post is neat and not the usual black and red

You can see that your brother benefitted too. So stop cryuing or else I will descend on you

As the name implies, the guy too dey good, I really like the guy no be small.





@Telly B

Insert Quote
@topic,

Jesus is the Son of God; born through Mary, whose husband is Joseph.

And who is the father of Joseph?

@Telly B

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

Hope you are not trying to avoid my questions ? We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God.Hope I have answered your question?

@Telly B

Am still asking you same question

What does the Jewish Torah contain?

If the Torah is not included as part of the Quran, how come the story of Moses in the Quran?

Thanks

@pataki

Quote from: babs787 on May 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
Olodo, so Torah is the Old Testament  

Sometimes I am in shock as to whether you are really unintelligent or probably you are just faking it here! Pray tell me, what exactly is the Torah? Do you actually know any better? Are you this dull   or faking it up? It will be a total shame if future generation read your writeup and begin to wonder is this how un-intelligent you were

Cant you that you are the most stupid guy here . I told you that OT  is different from Torah and you started misbehaving. If you care to know, the first five books are the one ascribed to Moses and not the whole OT. Olodo

Quote from: babs787 on May 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
Are the letters of acts, romans, corinthians, revelations etc part of the revelation given to Jesus?

You are yet to answer my question. At least I didnot make my verbiage an herculean tasks on your brain. I have intentionally made it simple and short, yet you intentionally dodged my questions!

Am asking you deluded bros .Are those mentioned above part of the revelation given to Jesus?

Again I ask you babs, Where is the lost Torah and Injil and how did it get lost or missing?

Since you dont want to reason just like your other folks, Muhammed as we all know was an illiterate abi, so how does Moses, Jesus and David stories get into the Quran and please what do the book of Moses, Jesus and David contain?

As to your teaser, No book was handed to Jesus, it was his life that was the message! which was an epistle written by men for us to live a pattern with.

Huhhhhhhhh . Are you saying no revelation was given to Jesus? . Ok, what message was given to him/ Did the message include the letters of Pauls, James etc?

Quote from: babs787 on May 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
Allah and I know where you are going and where you want to lift your allegation from. So be fast with it.

You and Allah get shares for company ni? Since when did you and Allah become peers?

Ask yourself bros

Your religion tells you, you are a slave to Allah! Are you really a Muslim or you are just pillaging an identity for one?

You should answer it yourself, maybe I resemble christian for your yeye face

So again I repeat it, who is the original owner of the Koran, now that you and Allah are colleagues

This guy don dey tthreaten me like Gwaine oooo . You answer it yourself. Who is the owner of Gospel?

Quote from: babs787 on May 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
Complete version? Expantiate please.


I will do that in the coming days. Be sure to know that in the coming days, you may never recover from it again. If you need some of your anti-christian website to go copy and paste from, I will kindly oblige you.

Yeye player. Just like Gwaine, empty barrel

Quote from: babs787 on May 16, 2007, 02:49 PM
Provide you answer, I know where you are coming from and where you are going, so supply the answers please.

It is very glaring that you stand in total ignorance as to the truth. You do not know and it is such a profound shock that you do not want to know either.

Who is standing in total ignorance to the truth between you and I.Abegi, stop deceiving yourself jare.

Just as nicer put it, it is annoying when you talk thrash with confidence.

You know I dont really blame, thats what you believe, most of your doctrines have been laid to rest even with verses from your bible yet you keep going in circles saying absolutely nothing.

In respect to the Torah and Injil, it is widely held among modern muslim scholars  that:

* Abrogating Older scriptures - Torah and  Injil

* The Quran is the pure version handed to Muhammad by an Angel.

My question to you before I move on is that, have you finished reading your Quran? Because we shall be going more into your Quran to bring out the errors that Mo has decieved you all with.

You should be prepared to defend the bible too from Genesis to revelation e.g when God told Adam that he would die if he eats the forbidden fruit but Adam never die oo. .Dont worry, am ready for you, bring it and will give you more from your bible.

"If thou wert in doubt As to what We have revealed unto thee then ask those who have been reading The Book [the Bible] before thee, " Sura 10:94

Not to be too ambigious with you, I will like you start with the explanation of that verse then we can move on henceforth to other things.

Okay Professor

Why was the Quran referring to the Bible if Indeed it has been abrogated by Mo? Then you can as well explain this verse too:

Wait let me explain the above.

I wonder when you people will stop deceiving yourself. You should have given me the verse in full. Allah is telling Muhammed that if he is doubt as to  the fact that his name was written in the earlier revelations, he should ask those that were given the scriptures (Torah and Injeel). Hope you don grab

"Find those who say, "We are Christians": Because amongst these are Men devoted to learning. And men who have renounced The world, and they Are not arrogant." Sura 5:82

The above verse is saying that you would find amongst men unbelievers that hate muslims and you fill also find amongst them too those that say we are christians because they are priests, monks etc and they are not proud but most of them are perverted transgressors like you pataki.


Quran 2 v 62: verily! those who believe and those who are jewss and christians and sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.

A past nation used to live in Musal (Iraq) and say None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and used to read the Psalms of the Sabians and they were neither jews nor christians.

Also read 2 v 62 and 22 v 17

Tafsir

Verses 2:62, 5:69 and 22:17 addresses the Jews, Christians and Sabians: it states that along with Muslims, God will also save those Christians and Jews, who have believed in the true message of Jesus, Moses and the other prophets:

Those who believe–Jews, Nazarenes, and Sabians–whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good deeds - shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear nor are they saddened.

As well you could explain Sura 2:62 and Sura 5: 69

The nation or people of Jesus then were never christians but Nazarene but christians is being used because it is closer to the Nazarene mode of worship.

The Nazarenes (Hebrew: Netzarim, נצרים) were a group of early followers of Jesus of Nazareth who, like the Ebionites, were noteworthy for refusing to follow Christianity in its complete break with Judaism. The sect may have been started by James the Just, the brother of Jesus.


Sabians (Arabic: صابئين‎) are adherents of religions derived from the beliefs of a community which was based in the area of ancient SubarTu. There are two kinds of Sabians, agnostic Sabians (Sābi'ūna Hunafāh) and gnostic Sabians (i.e. the Sābi'ūna Mushrukūn Sabians of Harran and Mandaean Nasaræan Sabeans).  They perform ablution like muslims do and belief in one God. The Sabians existed before Muhammad, and are said to have read from a book called the Zabur.

Jews on the other hand are the followers of Moses, they belived in him and followed the old law which you are calling the OT and the oness of God and not trinity.


So bros , whenever you see christians in the Quran, do not ever think that Allah is refering to but to the Nazarenes and you shoukd know that they are quite different from you.

Hope you grab?

Then we can move on.

Thank you.

Okay ooooooooo


@Telly B

you are still asking the same thing over again and again. What does the Jewish Torah christian Torah contain?

@Telly B

Insert Quote
I wonder why all the rigmarole. If you've got anything to say, please do. Gwaine has hinted where you're coming from earlier, hasn't he?

You are one the making fuss of yourself. I asked a question and he provided a verse. Yours is to answer my question bros and stop playing smart, avoiding questions and I am very sure, you will bring your own question to cover your loopholes as you have been doing in other threads.

@Telly B


I thought that you are up to the task but you are just a player, avoiding issues.

Am asking you again,

Which direction does a muslim in Saudi faces?
What direction does a Muslim in Nigeria faces?


A for the Qiblah detector then please explain better, how does it detect direction to face in prayer regardless of your country.