₦airaland Forum

@pataki, noisycheeks and the fumbling Gwaine


No shaking jare, I dey kampe but learnt that we have been repeating same thing and going round in circles, the fact has been established so I am signing out.


Cheers

@all

I can see that we have been repeating same thing over and over again and as result, I am quitting for you but will be on Islamic threads but that doesnt mean that I will not be contributing whenever you post any lie as you are well known for.

I sing out and I leave you in peace

@davidylan








@all

salam

I think I need to dedicate more time here and supply the little I have for the benefit of the entire muslims reading posts here. We need to be learning from each other. We cant force people to accept Islam we can only preach.

@Gwaine




I knew you would be so predictable, babs. I often send 'feelers' to size up your type, and then they jump around and even confess to their illiteracy.

I am even wondering why a learned person like you could be indulging in debate with illiterates. Dont you know that you are an empty barrel, the likes of you have perished, boasting over what they are not. You better sit up and face reality.



And that is supposed to be your own "threat"?? I no fit laugh.


I dont threaten but its left for you to give it your own meaning




I know. . . where your falsehood and hypocrisy were blown, you could do nothing other than turn round and refer to your own Muslim authors as LIARS!


I can see that you and you brother are confused. He asked a question and quickly changed it when I provided answer. Dont you think your falsehood has been exposed?



How many threads have I created to ask Muslims questions? Reacting with more hypocritical lies is not the way to blot out your blown deception.

You surprised me o professor. So you dont know that 'you' can be used for more than one person (i.e group of people). Kai professor. . You can see the more reason I told you not to put yourself into trouble by talking with babs.





Babs, trying to shift your embarrassment to me is not working. I'm really humoured that all your recent reactions are just because of one thread stimulus opened to answer your challenges. It's normal to wail - I've actually seen some Muslims do so when they were exposed.


Really, point of correction, babs is not moved. My exposure of your incomplete hit all of you real hard and some of your folks went to treate threads.




Is this your clever way of offering a bribe after weeping? Nice. We'll be seeing more of your red eyes soon.


Bribe ke, no far from that.

@Gwaine,


It seems that you are not ready to talk as a result, am leaving you to compose yourself but remember that you will still answer those questions soon whether you like it or not

Gwaine:
And who do you suppose yourself to be, by trying to play that silly "me-first-you-next-everybody-last" Islamic game with me? If you wanted answers, they would be given. Playing games with me is a hilarious antic; but it has never worked with me.

If you can't answer questions unless you circumvent issues with these excuses, just grow up - it's sane and safe. Want it otherwise? You'll get it for sure!

You said if I needed answers that they would be supplied, please I need answers, supply me nowwwwwwwwwwwwww

@Gwaine






Oh, they must have fallen from the sky like the Qur'an, no??

Rather than pretend, the simple thing to do would have been to seek out articles on them, and read them up.


Am not pretending, am asking you a question and you must answer it.





The question is clear: WHEN and HOW exactly did this great loss of the TORAH and INJIL occur??


I have provided response to you in one of the threads, you only need to read and stop this your deceit. It is not helping you. Are you saying the books of Esther, Joshua, Ecclesiates etc are part of the Torah and the letters to romans, corinthians etc part of the revelation to Jesus? Oya escapist answer



Your question answers itself, no? Because it would be entirely unnecessary for anyone to ask questions like that if they already assumed what you're asking in pretence. You said the Toraha and Injil of the Qur'an are lost. Fine. My question: WHEN and HOW exactly did it happen?

Sure the original message is lost and if you still care to read, entertain yourself:

Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

Also in the mid-4th century manuscript called Codex Sinaiticus, the Letter of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas are included as a part of the New Testament (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)


‘The Five Gospels’ is a 550 page book containing translations of the gospels of Mathew, mark, luke and john. It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western Universities. They decided to produce a translation of the gospel which would be uncoloured by the translator’s personal faith. It was decided that this translation was to give the reader an honest picture of what Jesus truly aid. They scanned the text for the words of Jesus and collect an index of over 1,500 such sayings. They then tested the validity of each of these sayings one at a time to see whether Jesus truly said each one. Then they produced a fresh translation, colour-coded to show authentic Jesuit sayings and those of an unreliable nature. Their conclusion was:

‘82% of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him’

O Culman in his book ‘The New Testament’ (Le Nouvea Testament, 1967) says of this that the evangelists were only the ‘spokesmen of the early Christian community which write down the oral tradition. For of 40 years, the gospel had existed as an almost exclusively oral tradition: the latter only transmitted sayings and isolated narratives. The evangelists strung them together, each in his own way according to his own character and theological preoccupations. They linked up the narrations and sayings handed down by the prevailing tradition. The grouping of jesus’ sayings and likewise the sequence of narratives is made by the use of fairly vague linking phrases such as, ‘after this’, ‘when he had’ etc. in other words, the ‘framework’ of the synoptic gospels is of a purely literary order and is not based on hsitory’.

Father Kannengiesser, a reknowned author says: the gospels ‘are not to be taken literaly’, they are ‘writings suited to an occasion’ or ‘combat writings’. Their authors ‘are writing down the traditions of their own community concerning Jesus’.

The gospels are texts which ‘are suitable for various circles, meet the needs of the church, explain observations on on the scriptures, correct errors and even, on occasion, answer adversaries’ objections. Thus, the evangelists, each according to his own outlook, have collected and recorded in writing the material given to them by the oral tradition; (Ecumenical Translation of the Bible)



It may make no sense to you; but here it is again: WHERE are the Torah and the Injil of the Qur'an?

You can imagine this boy asking the same quetion over and over again. Am asking you again, what do the Torah and the Injil contain?

@Gwaine


When you are ready for a debate, you call on me, empty barrel and frustrated boy

@Gwaine

Why dont you stop this childish game and answer my question.

@Gwaine

Dont you think that exchanging words with you will be a wate of time. If you are here for debate, babs is ready and if you are not, you may go away with your frustration. Frustrated Empty barrel

@pataki


It seems my posts hit you real hard. Dont worry you aint see nothing yet, for this thread created, be expecting more from me. Your bible will be examined from the book of Genesis to the last book. and other issues will follow. Stay glued.


It is very reported in the Islamic quarters that the Torah and Injil (Old and New Testament)are lost or better still missing.

Olodo, so Torah is the Old Testament



Please could our enlightened Muslims tell us, where is the lost Torah and Injil, how did it get lost?

Are the letters of acts, romans, corinthians, revelations etc part of the revelation given to Jesus?



Who is the original owner of the Koran? Muhammad (SAAW) or Allah

Allah and I know where you are going and where you want to lift your allegation from. So be fast with it.



Is the Koran the complete version of Allah or Muhammad?


Complete version? Expantiate please.



Who wrote the Koran?


Provide you answer, I know where you are coming from and where you are going, so supply the answers please.

Gwaine:
@Babs,

Relax. You don't know how much you made guys laugh in my office!! It was quite a good cha-cha for you, and you were so predictable to have reacted. . . snivelling till your hands were shaking on your keyboard!

Nobody is frightened. Do whatever you've come to do. I am enjoying every bit of the debate

@pataki


Organogram man

mrpataki:
Are you already getting frustrated this early blabs?

For where, no shaking

@pataki,davidylan, gwaine

Please answer my question and stop beating about the bush

@Gwaine



That is usually what touts do - conversion by illiteracy.  

You must be our Area father in which return is given to you at the end of the day.





See?? I deliberately let you tighten your own noose on yourself!!  
Oh, babs, you're so predictable!! Where in the Qur'an is it said that Jesus was given the bible??

Bros, you better take you time, whats your problem? Am very sure your threat must have affected my keyboard hence the reason for typing bible instead of Gospel . This is my question jare, my great grandmother's husband, is the Gospel today same as the one given to Jesus? Note that I have provided answer in one of the threads, you only need to read, digest and go back to your motor park.





Hehe. . . this bobo is seeing double; so tey you no know whether na thread or threat dey shake you!  





We have an adage that if someone is half-dead after a fright from nothing, he/she begins to placate another with flattering titles! You don't need to take a heart attack and call me Professor! It only betrays your inferiority complex.

You know what, like I said earlier, you are an empty barrel bragging and saying that someone is inferior to you. I am very contented with the position I am today, its not by my power but by His grace, He told me to always humble myself and never brag like you have been doing. So you can continue weeping for all I care. There is a saying that pride beget a fall, so you may continue barking till tomorrow but the fact remains, nothing moves babs.

@Gwaine


Me ke, for where, I dey kampe like baba

@Gwaine


Thanks for the post for my first question, you still have others to attend to. I did not buy your explanation but will want you to progress but part of your text is noted which will be used against you very soon.

Many Bible commentators make the mistake of taking Jesus' words in John 3:13 as pointing to His ascension after He would rise from the dead. But that is a weak premise, because the preceding contexts do not bear it out in precisely that context. Rather, Jesus made the statement about the ascension immediately following His words contrasting earthly and heavenly things. Nicodemus' surprised reaction as well indicates that what he heard from Jesus was entirely outstanding.

Soon we will know who is right among you and the commentators. Please go on with my questions, bros

It is really true that its your father that beget you jare, no shaking, carry onnnnnnnn

@Gwaine

@noisycheeks

Just provide the translations and stop wasting your time

@all


If Jesus is God, please provide answers to the questions below:


1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one’s son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether?


2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn’t Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?


3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God’s anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior", in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word son is not exclusively used for him alone?


4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones?


5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a time?

6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn’t a complete God, nor was the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn’t that contradict what Jesus always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord ? Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?


7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn’t this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent him?


8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrect ion?


9.Christians say that: "The Father(F) is God, the Son(S) is God, and the Holy Ghost(H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests that F ¹ S ¹ H (meaning, "not equal". Isn’t that a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself ?


10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone?


11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in the Bible?


12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn’t Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.


13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn’t this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn’t such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?


14.Wasn’t the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See , I have made thee (Moses ) a god to Pharaoh"?

Thank you.

@Gwaine


The Gospels in the NT have always remained the Gospels. That Muslims have come up to deny them does not change anything. YOU babs787 have said that the Injil of the Qur'an is lost; so your question here just loses its substance.



Brother, it is very unfortunate that you are still denying the glaring truth about the Gospels. The Gospel in existence is not the original message given to Jesus.

Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

Also in the mid-4th century manuscript called Codex Sinaiticus, the Letter of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas are included as a part of the New Testament (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)


‘The Five Gospels’ is a 550 page book containing translations of the gospels of Mathew, mark, luke and john. It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western Universities. They decided to produce a translation of the gospel which would be uncoloured by the translator’s personal faith. It was decided that this translation was to give the reader an honest picture of what Jesus truly aid. They scanned the text for the words of Jesus and collect an index of over 1,500 such sayings. They then tested the validity of each of these sayings one at a time to see whether Jesus truly said each one. Then they produced a fresh translation, colour-coded to show authentic Jesuit sayings and those of an unreliable nature. Their conclusion was:

‘82% of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him’

O Culman in his book ‘The New Testament’ (Le Nouvea Testament, 1967) says of this that the evangelists were only the ‘spokesmen of the early Christian community which write down the oral tradition. For of 40 years, the gospel had existed as an almost exclusively oral tradition: the latter only transmitted sayings and isolated narratives. The evangelists strung them together, each in his own way according to his own character and theological preoccupations. They linked up the narrations and sayings handed down by the prevailing tradition. The grouping of jesus’ sayings and likewise the sequence of narratives is made by the use of fairly vague linking phrases such as, ‘after this’, ‘when he had’ etc. in other words, the ‘framework’ of the synoptic gospels is of a purely literary order and is not based on hsitory’.

Father Kannengiesser, a reknowned author says: the gospels ‘are not to be taken literaly’, they are ‘writings suited to an occasion’ or ‘combat writings’. Their authors ‘are writing down the traditions of their own community concerning Jesus’.

The gospels are texts which ‘are suitable for various circles, meet the needs of the church, explain observations on on the scriptures, correct errors and even, on occasion, answer adversaries’ objections. Thus, the evangelists, each according to his own outlook, have collected and recorded in writing the material given to them by the oral tradition; (Ecumenical Translation of the Bible)



babs, where are the TORAH, INJIL, and PSALMS of your Qur'an?


I have asked your brother and I am now asking you now, what do the Torah, Injil and the Psalm contain?


Cheers.

@batu

Yes, ewu prof 707,
Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of God. And you are also right (without knowing) with this statement:


Quote
We all know that if a son happens to be the only begotten son, it means that he is the first and last born and no other child from his parents


Brother, please explain the below verse:


Psalm 2 v 7: The Lord hath said unto me, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.



Yes, that is one of the titles of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, Alpha and Omega.
He is the only begotten son of God; but Israel is His son by adoption, and so are all those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord, and believe in the Father who begat him. That is why Jesus said "I am in the Father and the Father in me."

If Jesus and God are one because he said that he and fath are one, what of the other verse that says:

John 17 v 21: that they (the disciples) all may be one; as thou, father art in me and I in thee, that they may also be one in us,



NB:If the Quran says Jesus is the word of God and the Spirit of God, pray tell me, how is the word and spirit of God separate from God?


Fine and thanks for the issue raised up. Jesus being the word of God does not mean that He is God. Jesus and God are two separate entity.

@noisycheeks

Insert Quote
well blabs@blabbing.com

we are still waiting for you and your cohorts to clarify the contradictions as expected but you, in your usual style is trying to digress. When you raised yours we did not refer you to any website.


Sister, you may wait till eternity for all I care and I dont care if you have lifted from website. If you still want babs to diagnose your problem, bring from one to five of your questions will the translations and I will surely educate you. Since you have been shouting that I gave you 101 contradictions, I have narrowed it down and will be serving you one after the other.

So if you still want me to answer them for you, give me two or three with the translations and I will surely respond. I am demanding for the translation becaus I learnt that you do sometime quote out of context (hope you remember the story of Adam you mixed ignorantly with that of Moses). So when you are ready, babs is also ready. You are free to lift from any websites and be rest assured that you will be refuted just like silas, chowdry etc have been.



Why all these contradictions in the book sent down by allah? Or did you people try to join the parts eaten by the goats under Aisha's bed?


When you finish sobbing, let me know. Supply me the translations and babs will respond

@noisycheeks

@davidylan


I am still asking you, please who are they if they are not prophets?



@Gwaine


          (a) how does Muhammad resemble any Biblical prophet in ministry?

          (b) why was Muhammad often mixing up issues that those prophets preached?


Answers will be supplied only when we know who prophets are and I can use that in answering your questions above. You may as well assist david.

@gwaine

Insert Quote
Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 02:59:33 PM
1. Is the above statement spoken by John or God

Spoken by Jesus.

Thanks bros. If the above was spoken by Jesus, why is it that it is only in the books of John we are having the word 'only begotten son'?



Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 02:59:33 PM
2. Is Jesus really the only begotten son of God?

Yep.

Thanks for the response. We all know that if a son happens to be the only begotten son, it means that he is the first and last born and no other child from his parents. If that should be the case and Jesus is the only begotten son, please explain the verses below:

Exodus 4 v 22: And you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the Lord, Israel is my first-born son.

Psalm 2 v 7: The Lord hath said unto me, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jeremiah 31 v 9: ,,, for I am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my first born.



Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 02:59:33 PM
3. Was Jesus 'begotten' or 'made' by God?

Neither.


Why is 'begotten' used in the verse if your answer is neither? Please can you throw more light on the word 'begotten'


Thanks.

@davidylan

Do they still worship moon during daytime?

@davidylan

@Gwaine


And who do you suppose yourself to be, by trying to play that silly "me-first-you-next-everybody-last" Islamic game with me? If you wanted answers, they would be given. Playing games with me is a hilarious antic; but it has never worked with me.

Okay, I need answers. Thank you as you supply the answers and May God be with you


If you can't answer questions unless you circumvent issues with these excuses, just grow up - it's sane and safe. Want it otherwise? You'll get it for sure!  

I am not doing that bros. Evem if you cant admit the fact that you have been avoiding my questions, you should know that my questions are in line with the subject of this thread hence my asking you first. So feel free professor, I want to learn, explain those questions to me and be rest assured that babs will post his response to your questions immediately after you answers to my qestions.


Are you a pope/Deacon/Pastor?

Hope you are not an ( pls fill the gap) that will want to way lay me on my way out? .

@Gwaine

Kai! I didn't know that you can shake like this!! I haven't even touched you and you're calling for help. Babs, relax. . . I didn't leave you any threats, just messages!


Okay sir, I thought it was a threat


If you want to discuss, there'll be no qualms. But to pretend innocence and yet be rascally, you can expect to beat your knuckles together because I showed up. Wetin happen? Why afraid catch you like this??


Afraid ke, never it has never happened and it will never happen. I am here for discuss too if you are ready



This question has been recycled once too many times. It has not been ignored, and only rascal speak the way you do. Yep, Jesus is God - my Bible says so; and I believe it. It is typically Muslim rascals who have LOST their own Injil of the Qur'an that find it difficult to understand this. At least, you said so yourself.


No brother, let me come down to your level, you know that its this same bible you are laying claim that contradicts the issue raised? All what you have been calling deriding have been from your bible. Hope you are ok bros




If you're posing questions for answers, they will come. But to demand anything of anyone is simply illiterate; and that is why you should prove your mettle and grow past the games of "me-first. .you-next. .them-after. .everybody-last"!! You're too old for that.

Am sorry sir, I am asking to know so please answer my questions first and I will surely answer yours since you are not asking to know like you are accusing me. So I want to know, please answer the questions


Answer those questions about Islam's disguised polytheism; or continue with your noise and convince us more of slow-wittedness.


Honestly, babs has prepared your answer but will only do so untill you answer those questions posed at you before your own question.

Am beginning to like this guy Gwaine ooooooooo





See now? I knew you felt so threatened and became half a man!

Threatened ke, no bros, babs is never moved. Even if you are a wizard you cant do anything.


What really is scarring you from giving answers here on this thread? I'm not in a hurry to make you weep, and it's not my style to panic and open threads. Do so, and you'll see me there again to frighten you!


Nothing is scaring but you are trying to play smart, avoiding my questions while you want babs to answer yours, its never done sir, answer my question and I will answer yours.


I like you jare bros, hope you like me too we will never friend we will remain as friends

Not only that but including verse 11.

@Gwaine

Babs is still very much around. You have response to your answers but you still have to answer me here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-50927.32.html



Okay, since allah's books are lost and cannot be found, let's just all settle down and celebrate the great loss!!

Allah's book ke? Is Allah the same as God?


The question now is: since the Qur'anic books of the Torah and the Injil are LOST, what is Muhammad doing in the Bible??

Brother stop avoiding question, the question is still the same. Do we say the Gospel in existence now is the same book given to Jesus?



Muslim apologists who have been speaking on both sides of their mouth, while claiming that the Torah and Injil are lost, have desperately tried to force the name "Muhammad" into the Bible - especially into Deuteronomy 18 and John 14 & 16. There's only one implication for this cowardly dribbling: Muhammad was in "the LOST Torah and Injil" and Muslims should cease from trying to find him in the Bible - he's simply not there!


It is your problem, I have provided detailed response to your infantile thinking. You only need to go there and grab