₦airaland Forum

Absolutely Amazing !!!!!!!****&&&&$$%%@@@@@@~!!@###############

YOU are quoting the SCRIPTURE or am Not seeing well this is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ BELOW


Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)


THIS IS THE THEME OF THE BIBLE JESUS IS A LAW SO WHEN YOU LIVE BY AND HIM YOU CANNOT BE JUDGED BY ANY LAW. YOU ARE QUOTING THIS AND YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WELL HOPE GOD GIVES YOU THE EYES TO SEE THAT ALL POWER IN HEAVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@##########&&&**** And EARTH IS GIVEN TO HIM.

THE LAW IS LOVE AND GOD IS LOVE

17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"

20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. ^{Then come, follow me}."


You Mr Babs787

You keep doing this it is not fair you make the argument less Righteous READ THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH Your Knowledge of Scripture is very much biased Myopic if I did the same you would accuse be of Dishonesty. anyway I am waiting for you on the Issue of Different sect we have in Islam where even blood was shed on this differences. Because you Claim that this makes Islam The RIGHT PATH EVEN YOU BACKED IT WITH A SURAH.



1.
MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

Note: the disciples of Jesus fled and they have perished for 2000 years with no sign of the return of jesus.

Another Attempt But You showed that you are Myopic in Judgment Again.

THE DISCIPLES NEVER EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE OF ISREAL IT IS FACT YOU AND I KNOW IT IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE EVEN NOW NO ONE HAS EVANGELIZED A NATION COMPLETELY HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

BESIDE WHEN JESUS DIED AND RESURRECTED THE DISCIPLES HAD NOT LEFT ISRAEL BROTHER.

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

PLEASE TELL ME WHICH SECT OF ISLAM YOU BELONG TO BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEEM TO FALL IN THE ORTHODOX MUSLIM BELIEF. They believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Shia have different from this.

While you are at it this muslim guy has just given me another Site of The Ahmadis Read it and you will see THE GREAT AND ALMIGHTY DIFFERENCE

The Jews believe that Jesus died on the cross because he was a false prophet.

The Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross in atonement of the sins of humanity, was resurrected soon thereafter, and then ascended to Heaven.

The orthodox Muslims believe that God saved Jesus from "death by crucifixion" and ascended bodily to heaven, and will come down to earth again to smash the cross and what it stands for and to purify the faith of the believers.

[b]Ahmadiyya Muslim Community [/b]declares that Jesus Christ only fell into a swoon on the Cross, but when he was taken down from it, he recovered and migrated to Kashmir, India where he died a natural death at the age of 120.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/index.php

Quran 30v30: So set (O Muhammed [saw]) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah alone) with which He has created mankind, no change let there be in Khalg Ilah (i.e. the religion of Allah) that is the straight religion but most men know not.

[b]The above verse is saying that the true religion is the religion that is like the creation of manking (including all living things). If you see any religion that is like creation of mankind, that is the religion before God. For example, men in Africa are having 2 eyes, one head etc likewise those in Europe. Dogs in Asia have four legs likewise those in America. Etc Any religion in which the way its practiced in a particular place is not different from another, that is the true religion but MOST MEN DO NOT KNOW.

In Islam, thought we have sunnis and shittes fighting but their fighting is more or less that of a civil war. Its just like saying the Fulanis and the Hausas in the Northern part of Nigeria. Despite the fighting, we still recite the same Quran, face the same Qiblah, fast in the same month, pray the same five times daily prayer etc but in christianty, Jehovah witness are saying jesus was tied to a stake and not crucified, witness do not believe in Christmas. Deeper life too, they do leave house for Christians and retreat to their camp because of this same Christmas, catholics believe that mary is the mother of God while others do not believe that and do not believe in the miracle of oyakhilomes, Bonnkes etc. some early christiand never believed that jesus died for anybody’s sin.[/b]


The Above Statement is another exposition of dishonesty I think you should Go to Iran before you start down playing the Great difference between Shiite and Sunni where blood is even shed for this cause.

In Nigeria I lived in a house with a Sunni and he was very Categorical he thought Shia were not of Allah and That their leader Died in the toilet or something like that!!!!!!!!!!

1) They Will never Marry amongst The different Sect
2) They Never Pray In The opposite Mosque Shiite will Never pray In A Sunni Mosque
3) They have a their different followerships
4) They are only United in War or in defence of the Quran
5) Some Sunni belief that Shiite are Not Muslims (the Guy that sell the unit for me in this cafe) says so. He is a
6) They have different Shahadah
practicing Muslim he says you are a liar.

He even gave me this site

http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split in Islam
by Hussein Abdulwaheed Amin, Editor of IslamForToday.com

Introduction
The Shia shahadah (declaration of faith) states:

"There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph."

If you are already familiar with standard Sunni beliefs, you will immediately notice the addition to the shahadah regarding Imam Ali (ra), cousin of the Prophet (pbuh), husband of his daughter Fatima, father of Hassan and Hussein and the second person ever to embrace Islam. The term Shia or Shi'ite derives from a shortening of Shiat Ali or partisans of Ali.

History
Ali is the central figure at the origin of the Shia / Sunni split which occurred in the decades immediately following the death of the Prophet in 632. Sunnis regard Ali as the fourth and last of the "rightly guided caliphs" (successors to Mohammed (pbuh) as leader of the Muslims) following on from Abu Bakr 632-634, Umar 634-644 and Uthman 644-656. Shias feel that Ali should have been the first caliph and that the caliphate should pass down only to direct descendants of Mohammed (pbuh) via Ali and Fatima, They often refer to themselves as ahl al bayt or "people of the house" [of the prophet].

When Uthman was murdered while at prayer, Ali finally succeeded to the caliphate. Ali was, however, opposed by Aisha, wife of the Prophet (pbuh) and daughter of Abu Bakr, who accused him of being lax in bringing Uthman's killers to justice. After Ali's army defeated Aisha's forces at the Battle of the Camel in 656, she apologized to Ali and was allowed to return to her home in Madinah where she withdrew from public life.

However, Ali was not able to overcome the forces of Mu'awiya Ummayad, Uthman's cousin and governor of Damascus, who also refused to recognize him until Uthman's killers had been apprehended. At the Battle of Suffin Mu'awiya's soldiers stuck verses of the Quran onto the ends of their spears with the result that Ali's pious supporters refused to fight them. Ali was forced to seek a compromise with Mu'awiya, but this so shocked some of his die-hard supporters who regarded it as a betrayal that he was struck down by one of his own men in 661.

Mu'awiya declared himself caliph. Ali's elder son Hassan accepted a pension in return for not pursuing his claim to the caliphate. He died within a year, allegedly poisoned. Ali's younger son Hussein agreed to put his claim to the caliphate on hold until Mu'awiya's death. However, when Mu'awiya finally died in 680, his son Yazid usurped the caliphate. Hussein led an army against Yazid but, hopelessly outnumbered, he and his men were slaughtered at the Battle of Karbala (in modern day Iraq). Hussein's infant son, Ali, survived so the line continued. Yazid formed the hereditary Ummayad dynasty. The division between the Shia and what came to be known as the Sunni was set.

An opportunity for Muslim unity arose in the 750's CE. In 750 except for a few who managed to flee to Spain, almost the entire Ummayad aristocracy was wiped out following the Battle of Zab in Egypt in a revolt led by Abu Al Abbass al-Saffah and aided by considerable Shia support. It was envisaged that the Shia spiritual leader Jafar As-Siddiq, great-grandson of Hussein be installed as Caliph. But when Abbass died in 754, this arrangement had not yet been finalised and Abbas' son Al Mansur murdered Jafar, seized the caliphate for himself and founded the Baghdad-based Abbassid dynasty which prevailed until the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258.

@domwas2

Read My Post The Hordes Of Hell are here 1 11 111

@babs787

This is where you have faultered again When the speaker in Quran41;9 spoke he did not say 4 he added the four in the consequent verse and Added what was done on this four no where did he state that he was creating on this day in that verse be truthful to yourself.

I sense that you Claim you know more than me I have not said that I know more than you I am not pumped up with Knowledge I am Humbled by It.

You must Know that In quran 41 ; 10 there is no verb of creating or making there.

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed [/b]blessing on the earth, and [b]measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

set on

bestowed

measured


No where in Verse 10 it mentions Creation or Making

Your Application of Abrogation is not correct or it is only correct if it suites your belief system. I know You are reading and Asking Questions from people versed. People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

@babs787

While you are at it please give me an hadith that will be Most Authentic so that I can begin to study!!!!

Thank you

Shalom

Brother Babs,

I see that you have rewritten your Own new Quran Dont let them Issue a Fatwah on you (smile) What you have done is wrong oh ! The verses were cumulative oh please dont do this. I beg you my brother anyway I know I cannot win a Arguement to win your soul for Christ.

But I have made you look at your scripture and I can percieve your heart is beating relax brother.

If a number is mention 2 to create

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?  not four !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

After Verse 9 you have Verse 10 it even explained what he was doing for those 4 days he was puting finishing touches like a Bricklayer doing plaster and Nourishing the Earth bros admit it this is a Fundamental Error!!



you said

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

You keep Shifting the Post this is not fair GENERATION AND HIS PEOPLE are different, Moses and Abraham are from the same peoples!!!##$#@@#$#@@@@@@?!!!!!!

you said

Brother, another thing you don't know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.

Brother it is either !!!!! you are purposely lying!!!!! or you have forgotten Go back to what you said about Abrogation and you Quoted The Surat to suport it


I rest my Case

this is the purest form of Joke I have ever had I am laughing The Ingenuinity of Nigerian Police Even Them can Quote Bible

Na wa

I am Laughing here it is Just too much

We as Christians need to lead a Holy life they are watching us they will follow no matter hard they will follow. He you are the Light of the World.

Great Joke

@domwas2

Your Desire to worship God looks pure You know what you have believed in and you can Visit churches.

You can Also at the same time set up a meeting of the brethren that you have preached to and that you know they are born again!

even if they are 2 or 3

Your Church service can be eight in the morning till ten you can meet 2ce in a week.

On Sunday you can have church like this

Bible Study
prayer request
Question and answer on what you study

Offering and a Good Hymn

Hymn for the message

Message of the day

closing

This can be done in your house or a school
by prayer a leader of this Group will be selected this is Olden days Acts of the apostle

The Church is You ( YE are called Out ) ( ECCLESIA)

I hope I have helped you.

The Lord Help you

Love from Your Brethren

Dear Brethren


Please let us Learn to receive Correction no matter how Hurtful it may seem We are one body in Christ and We should learn to love each other even as Christ Loved us.

Let the money be Returned For the love of God. Let us Correct In LOVE also no matter what. Listen to this saying

A man was trying to save a Scorpion from Drowning and each time he put his hand to grab it he was stung by the Scorpion. A passerby told the man to stop because it was the Nature of the Scorpion to sting and the man replied that he knew it was his nature to help and love.

Let love be our nature, Let the nature of Christ be in you.

Amen

correction of my last post on this thread

I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

**I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore MOSES or After MOSES?

Please take of this correction

@brother babs

I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

They were both of the same people.

You said "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah." means "Amongst his people", Was paganism only practiced amongst the quarish people did we not have Jew persians and even Xtians those times.

Ah My brother be Honest in your Submission Did this "Amongst his people" apply to the Other In The Surat I quoted?

You have not done anything but Used The First One to About Muhamed to Explain the Other where it was NEVER STATED In the verse that "Amongst his people", This I think is Dishonesty.  

Ok see

You did not apply the Nasuukh here, Why The Double Standard?

The Verse of moses comes After the verse of Muhamed 6 and 7.

If you read the next post you will see

Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days

The small maths I know I can say this is a Contradiction

Brother bab787

I hope you have read  my 2 other post.

Love from Christ

6days

Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days
                                       


                                      VERSUS

8days
Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

@babs

I am amazed at your Qoutes and interpretation

Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163],

006.014
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

PICKTHAL: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

SHAKIR: Say: Shall I take a guardian besides Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds (others) and is not (Himself) fed. Say: I am commanded to be the first who submits himself, and you should not be of the polytheists

006.163
YUSUFALI: No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and[b] I am the first of those who bow to His will[/b].  

PICKTHAL: He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and[b] I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).[/b]

SHAKIR: No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and[b] I am the first of those who submit.[/b]


You can read for yourself I have done you the Honors.


Moses?  [7:143]  

YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

PICKTHAL: And when Moses came to Our appointed tryst and his Lord had spoken unto him, he said: My Lord! Show me (Thy Self), that I may gaze upon Thee. He said: Thou wilt not see Me, but gaze upon the mountain! If it stand still in its place, then thou wilt see Me. And when his Lord revealed (His) glory to the mountain He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers.

SHAKIR: And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers.


, some Egyptians [26:51]

YUSUFALI: "Only, our desire is that our Lord will forgive us our faults, that we may become foremost among the believers!"

PICKTHAL: Lo! we ardently hope that our Lord will forgive us our sins because we are the first of the believers.

SHAKIR: Surely we hope that our Lord will forgive us our wrongs because we are the first of the believers.



, or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67]

002.127
YUSUFALI: And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.

PICKTHAL: And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the[b] foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed):[/b] Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

SHAKIR: And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:

003.067
YUSUFALI: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

PICKTHAL: Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.

SHAKIR: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.



or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah


You are not Applying Nasuukh and Mansuukh Principle in these Quotes. I have quoted Quran Nothing else. There is no where in the Quran that you qouted said

"So if moses says, "I am the first to bow as muslims", it means he is the first among his people to be a muslim likewise abraham."

If I agree with you for the sake of Arguement, it means that If moses says he was the first bow as muslim Among his people, What About Abraham? Abraham is the father of Moses.

You need to know that the Quran is filled with Disrepiancies.


Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy (Q.4:82)

Your defense of the above Surat misses the target. Let us consider what it means.

The first part of this Surat is a question and the next part is an answer.

Do they not Consider the Quran (with care)? , Question( Dont they Think with care)

Had it been from other Than Allah, Authorship (if it was not from Allah)

they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy , Result ( The "They" would have seen Mistakes)


GOD Bless you My brother Spend time to Show your self versed in what you have beleived in. I have learnt to always read every Qoute that any one gives me because if I Accept it stays in as a recorded message in my memory and I could be a Fanatic.

Look at another contradiction below

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

my Brother babs will not tell me which of the Hadith he accepts as Authentic and that AGREES WITH THE QURAN. If he did I would have read it out loud.

HADITH AND SUNNAH DEEDS OF PROPHET MUHAMED

QURAN WORDS OF ALLAH

These 2 don't agree

@Lazarus2

Poverty is a state of Mind. Dont be fooled The true wealth comes from God. some people are only in Charge of Gods wealth Some are also In Charge of Satan Wealth and they War Against God With their little money. Compare their wealth with Solomon.

worldly wealth is Evil and can kill the soul of a man. But the true wealth is when God is looked as the Provider and Giver. If you have Wealth and you don't have God you are doomed.

When you have great monetary wealth that Encourages you to Neglect God love you are doomed. Some people say Jesus was Rich and so they should be rich in the manner some people(mog) have Celebrity life The have forgotten about Modesty.

Let me tell of true Richness is the One that men bless God when they see you in the streets. I know a man that I remember when I was In Naija I never looked at him as anything they were "poor" but there was a day I went to there house and I saw that everything was changed.

The company he worked for years came and gave alot of things his house was furnished and other benefit came this man works in Flour Mill Nigeria Limited. The Blessing of God was on his life But I saw them as poor.

Blessed are the poor in spirit the man had a broken spirit. There are holy men in Naija but they are silent and their wealth is not their own because The Commander of there souls can require it (Soul and Money) at any Time.


Seek the Son and Love If he gives you wealth or Not

@ My friend Jen

I will not attack you. I am Nigerian (Yoruba) and I live in Ghana. You have Quoted the bible Wrongly and this is Dangerous The Crust in the statement there is Jesus Using an Illustration. Be Honest to Yourself and read that place very well.

People brainwash into thinking that Satan and God are Fake because They dont want to live a holy life. The truth is that I was Engaged in what you are doing and it will take your SINCERE heart To Ask God To Prove Him self to you. Hope you will have the ear to listen when he does.

relax my brother God will answer you at his Own Time. The Love of God is everywhere arround you take and live with it let him explain to you his love.

@Jen

If you read the bible very well you will understand. But you are closing your eyes to read the Bible (which is your Right to do so) However you will be called to defend your Position at the throne of grace on the Very Last day.

Jesus Says Love your Neighbor as yourself. We are free from the Grip and Control of sin when we are saved. The Ordinance was for the people of Israel and God permitted it. When You shall Stand Be for a Court of Justice it is called the Great White Throne Judgment You shall be naked and I want you to know what you will answer is your Life here On earth

@all

There is no Divorce once you are married correctly.

@Jen And Seun

Please you have no clue of what you are saying at all, The Theme of Leviticus is Ordinance on How to Live in a Nation of Israel at that time.

If you look very well in the history of the Jews You will see they Hardly colonized people like other civilization did to them. Remember we colonized them for 400 years and I wonder what we would have done to them.

The bible and Slavery has no bearing This were the words of Moses for the Children of Israel at that Time. When They because a Godly nation (Solomon Time) people wanted to make their nation like that of Israel under the leadership of Solomon.

There practices that were practiced those times for instance the worship of Baal Where an Image of a calf is made and a baby is put the fire with the priest and priestess having sex. My brother There is alot of recording where the made recorded evil things that man did and is still doing. The main aim is to uncover sin and clean it with the blood of a Holy man(Jesus. man and God).

@my brother Bab787

It is a pity you think you know God through the Bible but If you knew the bible at all you would have known the Son of God and if you knew the son you would have been led by the Spirit to the Father. I know what is pride and I know when some is boastful but I will tell you this, You have not known him and his book.

You only went through it you IT never went through you. How do I know? If you are honest with yourself you will see that you lived a life of sin and there is no difference from then and now. Understand what I am saying. Your soul is more Valuable than anything in the world that is the reason why he sent Jesus to Die for you and Me.

The bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. When you were a Christian did you know this. When looking at the bible you see that accounts were given by various people and you see accounts when looked at carefully makes sense to the spiritual Mind. If I ask you

No man that thirst and taste of the True mercy of God will ever forget it. I want you to Secretly read the bible on your own just for few minutes everyday. Dont say I have been a Christian before be real with yourself Humble yourself and read the Scripture. I read the Quran and I honestly wished I read it a long time Ago so That I would have answered some of the question I had in me.

If I asked what is the theme of the Bible. What would you say? The Theme of the bible is The LOVE GOD THROUGH CHRIST THAT CAN BE SHED IN OUR HEARTS IF ONLY WE RECEIVE HIM. Jesus Gives us the power over sin and the power of sin. No man can could condemn Jesus of Sin, He is the sin Offering, It says he died while we were yet sinners so that he reconcile us to the Father.

That is why you see we TRUE CHRISTIANS ( THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST) are given a Ministry of Reconciliation NOT RETALIATION.

God Bless My Brother

@ My brother babs787


As Much I don't agree to personal attacks I would like to say that your questions have been answered and you can't undersrand because you have not meet with the one who inspired it.

If you are VERY SINCERE you would find out what you have been missing. I have researched your quran and sometimes you  find out that the crust of the Quran is irelevant holiness and righteousness.

You see your quran has room to Abrogate. In our Bible we have confirmation the aim of every Scripture is to confirm Gods Love.

Some of my brothers on this thread may have attacked you as you have done to them but the fact is that the word of the lord standeth sure The Lord will Judge every idle Word that is spoken.

You need to know that the written records cannot be the same, then it will mean collaboration God does not do his things like that.

I will give you an Example

When The Spies were sent to spy On the enemy in The days of Joshua the majority of Spies saw the Enemy people as Giants and saw themselves as grasshopers but 2 CALEB AND JOSHUA said they were able.

I see you as one that will search to know the truth others may see as are one that is looking for an arguement and confrontation.

You can be a muslim till you die though but please for the sake of your soul please and please consider your personal self and SINCERELY CHALLENGE GOD TO TELL THE TRUE WAY.

I am not saying this because I want to you added to the number of Christians. Please sincerely search for God.

IN THE VOLUMES OF BOOK A SOUL IS SAVED IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF BOOK HE READS. YOU MUST READ TO LIBERATE YOUR LACK. YOU AND I HAVE DELT DEEPLY ON THE QURAN AND I NEVER USE THE QURAN TO EXPLAIN THE BIBLE. I READ AND QUOTE THEM SEPERATELY EVEN THOUGH SOME OF WHAT YOU SAY ARE CONTRADICTIONS ARE FOUND IN THE QURAN.

A HISTORY ABOUT THE PERSONS OR PLAYERs THAT FORMED THE MUHAMEDAN RELIGION MUST BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD.

I WISH YOU WELL MY BROTHER.

LOVE FROM CHRIST

Dear Sister,

I have listened to this man preaching. His ministry is in Ghana I attended his church (first fruit) service I am not Biased my sister. I am ONE that I try every spirit. I know that you love this man so much but please be careful.

One can make alot of mistake and follow a man to his grave but one must not enter the grave with him. If Brother Kumuyi or Zacharia Tanne Fomum (Cameroon) left the faith now and began preaching false doctrine I will begin to pray for him like I did here.

I will not say because they have lectured me that the great teaching of Scripture follow them in show. You and I know that it is very easy for one to know if someone gave an offering of 49 mill or not.

I cannot say more my sister in Christ but I will say this Let us make our (personal) election sure. The great last battle is about to begin it is those that know their God that shall perform Exploit.

I will never tie my salvation to the doctrine of men but of GOD. We were holy before the fall WHY CANT WE BE HOLY NOW BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM AND HIS XTER.

GOD BLESS YOU MY SISTER.

@bab787

I think you can reason for yourself. I quoted the Quran and you can read for yourself. I have a commentary On this Abrogation. I have posted read it will help you.

The Abrogator and Abrogated Qur’anic Verses

In chapter 2:106, the Qur’an plainly indicates,

"Such of our revelation as we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof."

In their interpretation of this verse (p. 16), the Jalalan say that God’s intention for this verse is,

"To eliminate the ordinance of the verse either with its wording or to keep the wording and eliminate the ordinance, or we make you O, Muhammad, to forget it; namely, we will remove it from your heart" (p. 16).

The Baydawi says in p. 22,

"This verse was given because the Jews and the infidels said that Muhammad ordered his followers to do something, then He prohibited them from it and commanded them to do something opposite to it. Abrogation means eliminating reading it as an act of worship or eliminating the ordinance inferred from it, or both of them. To forget it means to remove it from hearts."

Refer also to the Zamakh-shari in "al-Kash-shaf" (part I, p. 303). In part 3, p. 59 the Suyuti says, "Abrogation means the removal as it is mentioned in chapter Haj: 52, and it means alteration."

In his book, "The History of Islamic Law" (p. 115), Dr. Shalabi states,

"The abrogation is to rescind something and replace it with something else, as ibn Hazm said. Muslims in general have consented that abrogation has taken place in the Qur’an as it is clearly indicated in the sound verses."

This statement means that Muhammad was accustomed to stating something to his followers with the claim that it was revealed to him through the angel Gabriel, then later (maybe after a few hours), he would tell them that God had invalidated it. Thus the infidels used to say, "Muhammad utters something today and abolishes it tomorrow" (refer to Zamakh-shari, part I, p. 303).

In Asbab al-Nuzul, p. 19, the Suyuti says that,

"Ibn ’Abbas himself said, ‘Sometimes the revelation used to descend on the prophet during the night and then he forgot it during daytime, thus God sent down this verse: 2:106."

Is it acceptable or sensible to think that God changes His mind during the night? Ibn ’Abbas is not the only one who insists on that because ibn ’Umar says,

"Two men read a Sura which the apostle of God had taught them, yet one night they rose up to pray but they failed to remember one word of it. The next morning, they went to the apostle of God and related it to him. He told them, ‘It is one of those, which have been abrogated, thus, forget about it, "’ (Refer to the Itqan, 3:74).

Such strange behavior led the infidels to say that Muhammad is a calumniator and he does not receive inspiration from God for he changes his mind whenever he wishes or says, "I forgot the verse because God made me forget it and it was abrogated". Thus, a verse was written in the Qur’an referring to this debate which was waged between Muhammad and the infidel. The verse says,

"And when we put one revelation in place of another revelation—and Allah knows best what He reveals— they say, ‘To! thou art but inventing"’ (16:101).

In his above-mentioned book, Dr. Shalabi attempts to defend the concept of abrogation. He remarks,

"God changes His ordinances according to the change of time and circumstances, therefore, the abrogation and the giving of one verse instead of the verses of the Qur’an took place" (p. 116).

The reader can easily realize that this defense is meaningless and will not suffice because circumstances do not change drastically in a few night hours as ibn ’Abbas has claimed when he said that the verse would be received during the night and abrogated in daytime. Dr. Shalabi, in the context of his defense, says,

"Most of what was alluded to in the abrogated verses was intended to lighten (the ordinances)" (p. 117).

In part 3, p. 69 of the" Itqan", the Suyuti refers to the same reason. It is left to the reader to answer this question, "Did God not know the circumstances of His worshippers and their abilities so that He made it a habit to decree an ordinance or dictate an order, then change His mind and replace it immediately the next day with a lighter command or an easier commandment?" The fact is that Muhammad has failed to comprehend his followers' circumstances, thus he used to order something, then change it the next day whenever he found it too difficult to be implemented. For example, the Qur’an says,

"O prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be twenty steadfast among you, they shall overcome two hundred and if there be a hundred steadfast among you, they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve. Now has Allah lightened your burden for he knows that there is weakness in you. So if there is among you one hundred who are steadfast, they shall overcome two hundred."

This verse always confuses Muslims when they fight Israel in their efforts to liberate Palestine and the mosque (Al Aqusa).

The verses say that Allah lightened your (task) for He knows that there is a weak spot in you! Did God not know that each one of them had a weak spot before He told them that "each one of you can vanquish ten"? God had to change His mind and say that "each one of you can vanquish two" only. The Suyuti says,

"When God imposed on them that each one of them should fight ten, it became a burden and an unbearable (task) for them. Thus, God removed the burden from them and each one was (requested) to fight two men." (Asbab al-Nuzul, p. 134).

Both Baydawi (p. 244), and Dr. Shalabi (p. 117) agree with him. Another illustration on this "lightening" is found in Sura 73:1,2,20.

"O thou wrapped up in your raiment, keep vigil the night long save a little" (73:1,2). "Allah measures the night and the day. He knows that you count it not and turns unto you in mercy. Recite, then of the Qur’an why it is easy for you" (73:20).

On p. 117, 123, Dr. Shalabi along with Suyuti says,

"The Qur’anic verse: ‘Stand (to pray) by night, but not all night’ was abrogated by the end of the Sura; then was abrogated again by (the implementation) of the five prayers."

The entire Sura is only 20 verses. Its beginning is abrogated by its end, and its end is replaced by the injunction of the five prayers; that is, the Abrogator has been abrogated. In relation to this verse the Jalalan say (p. 491),

"When God imposed the night prayers, Muslims’ feet swelled as they stood during the night (for prayer); thus, God lightened it for them by saying, ‘Pray as much as you are able."’

Did God not know that this ordinance was going to be difficult for Muslims? Why did He not tell them that from the beginning before their feet became swollen?

A third illustration relevant to this discussion is the Qur’anic saying, "Fear Allah as He should be feared" (3:102). This commandment is abrogated by His saying, "Fear God as much as you are able to do so" (64:16). This is the claim of the Muslim scholars (refer to Suyuti in Asbab al-Nuzul, p. 277; Jalalan pp. 53, 473, Dr. Shalabi, p. 122). On p. 53, the Jalalan say,

"On the authority of Sa’id ibn Jubayr, he said, when the verse ‘Fear God as He should be feared’ was sent down, it became very hard for the people to do so; therefore, God bestowed, in order to lighten on the people, ‘Fear God as much as you can."’

The question is now why did God send down this abrogating verse after Muslims said to the apostle of God, "Who can do that?" Why, only after this objection, was this easy verse was sent down to abrogate the first one?

I believe that these illustrations are sufficient to prove the points under discussion. If anyone is interested to know more about this subject, we would refer him to the books of Suyuti and many other authors. They are filled with such examples.

Two Reasons: Lightening And Forgetting

We believe that the reason behind the concept of abrogation is that Muhammad intended to make the performing of the Islamic rites and worship easier on his followers and to obtain their approval and satisfaction with his teachings. If he decreed something which later seemed to be too difficult for them to implement and they remonstrated against it, he would "lighten" it immediately and claim that God had ordered him to rescind what he previously uttered, and all the verses he recited were replaced by new ones.

Whenever he forgot what he related to his followers, he spared himself the embarrassment by claiming that God had abrogated what he conveyed to them before. There is no doubt that Muhammad tended to forget. This is clear from the above illustrations and the incidents recorded in the Sahih of the Bukhari, (part 3, p. 223, and part 8, p. 91). The Bukhari says,

"Aisha said, The prophet heard a man reciting in the mosque. He said, ‘May God have mercy on him, he has reminded me of such and such verses which I dropped from Sura so and so."’

So Muhammad sometimes used to forget some verses and his friends had to remind him of them, but whenever he did not find anybody to remind him, he claimed that they had been abrogated. We saw this before when two of his followers came to him to help them to remember some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them these verses had ", been abrogated, forget about them!" So abrogation in the Qur’an was the result of forgetfulness or to lighten the task for the Muslims.

Forgetfulness is plainly mentioned in the verse we quoted at the beginning of this discussion (Sura 2:106) and it was interpreted by Muslim religious scholars who affirmed that God used to make Muhammad forget and remove from his heart what he had revealed to him before as ibn ’Abbas, who was among Muhammad’s closest friends, admits to us.

Surely none of us believes that God suffers a wavering mind and changes his opinion in a few hours. We can believe that Muhammad himself was subject to forgetfulness and made it a habit to change his mind in order to please his followers.



Types of Abrogation

Without exception, all Muslim religious scholars state that abrogation not only includes the abolishing, dropping or replacing of a verse by another verse but it also includes abolishing a provision of the verse without eliminating its wording or text from the Qur’an. Refer to Shalabi (p. 119), the" Itqan" (part 3, p. 63), ibn Hazm in "The Nasikh and the Mansukh" and others. Throughout three pages, the Suyuti provides us with many examples, but Dr. Shalabi, who is the professor of Islamic history tends not to agree with him on some of these examples. He says,

"I have a personal inclination to say that not so many abrogations took place in the Qur’an" (p. 118).

We do not really care whether the abrogated verses are many or few, what we do care for is the concept itself. We wonder if the provision of the verse is abrogated or abolished why its text should continue to be placed in the Qur’an and to be read. The Suyuti attempts to answer this question by saying, ", so as Muslims will be rewarded whenever they read it" (part 3, p. 69). It is as if the rest of the Qur’an were not sufficient reading for obtaining the reward, or as if the reward is acquired by more reciting even if they are verses whose provisions are abolished and are not in effect anymore! !

We have already mentioned some examples pertaining to this type of abrogation, yet it is appropriate to allude to all the verses which call for peace and forgiveness of the infidel here. These verses are all abrogated by other verses which call for war. All religious Muslim scholars attest to this fact as we mentioned in chapter one. Thus, no one should believe that the Qur’an calls for peace because all these ‘peaceful’ verses are recorded in it. All of them are abrogated as all the Muslim scholars attest. The Suyuti says in this respect,

"The order for Muslims to be patient and forgiving was issued when they were few and weak, but when they became strong, they were ordered to fight and the previous verses were abrogated" (part 3, p. 61).

Ibn ’Arabi said, "The verse of the ‘sword’ has abrogated 124 verses" (p. 69).

What is the second type of abrogation? It is a very strange type of abrogation, stranger than the previous one because it abrogates its recitation and retains its provision; that is, it keeps it in effect. If you wondered and asked what is the wisdom of that, you will find that the Suyuti himself asked the same logical question and endeavored to answer it. In part 3, p. 72, he says

"The recitation of some verses is abrogated though their provisions are retained. Some people in this respect, asked a question, ‘What is the wisdom in abolishing the recitation and retaining the provision? Why was not the recitation retained so that the implementation of the provision and the reward of reciting it will be combined?’ Some have answered, ‘That is to show the extent of this nation’s obedience without any preference to seek a determined path"’ (Al Itqan

. Refer also to Kishk legal opinions, part 4, p. 64. Sheik Kishk admitted this strange type of abrogation).

The Suyuti throughout these pages, presents many illustrations for this strange type of abrogation. It is obvious that it is utterly meaningless to abrogate and abolish a certain verse and to retain its provisions. Concerning the subject of obedience, this could be manifested in many ways apart from this strange matter. In his illustrations which the Suyuti quoted, he relied on ’Umar ibn al-Khattab’s sayings.



Other Strange Things Related To Abrogation

1) The abrogator precedes the abrogated

In part 3, p. 69 the Suyuti remarks,

"In the Qur’an there is no abrogator (verse) without being preceded by an abrogated (verse) except in two verses, and some added a third one, while others added a fourth verse" (Al Itqan).

Then the Suyuti recorded these verses. We tell him that even if there is only one verse (not four) this matter is incomprehensible and unacceptable. Why should an abrogating verse (with which Muslims are to comply) precede the abrogated verse? How would an abrogating verse abolish something which is not yet in existence, then later, the abrogated verse is revealed and recorded in the Qur’an? Why should it be recorded if it is already abrogated?

2) In part 3, p. 70, the Suyuti himself admits to this odd and amazing situation. He indicates,

"One of the wonders of abrogation is a verse in which its beginning has been abrogated by its end. There is nothing like it. It is (placed) in the Sura of the Table 105."

This is Suyuti’s statement which I quoted word for word.

3) Muhammad’s traditions (sayings and deeds) abrogate the Qur’an. The majority of Muslim religious scholars confirm that this truly took place and there is no room to deny it. One illustration would be the stoning of the married adulterer. The Qur’an talks only about scourging and exiling the adulterer, yet Muhammad himself stoned some adulterers. Thus, stoning the married adulterer (male or female) and not flogging them, has become Islamic law. The reason for that is that Muhammad said and did so. Therefore, the Suyuti (part

3, p. 60), as well as Dr. Shalabi (p. 121), has said that Muhammad’s traditions abrogate the Qur’an. This is also the opinion of ibn Hazm and al-Shafi’i. In this regard Dr. Shalabi says (page 121),

"God is the source of the ideas whether they are included in the Qur’an or in one of Muhammad’s Ahadith (traditions) which is inspired (by God) and not recorded in the Qur’an."

We believe that such things conform to sound Islamic thought because such events did take place as we mentioned before, but we cannot understand why these inspired traditions which Muhammad received have not been recorded in the Qur’an. Thus, such verses would abrogate other verses, especially since the Qur’an says, "We do not abrogate a verse without revealing a better one or something like it."

Nor do we understand the saying, ", we will reveal a better one," for is there better than the word of God? We understand that there could be something like it, but better? This is something we cannot comprehend or understand.

Before we conclude the subject of abrogation in the Qur’an there are two things which are worth mentioning:

First, the disagreement among Muslim religious scholars in regard to the abrogated verses despite the seriousness and importance of this matter. The Suyuti and Dr. Shalabi (along with all Muslim scholars and chroniclers) agree on a very significant dialogue which took place between ’Ali ibn Abi Talib and one of the jurisprudents which demonstrates the importance of knowing the abrogating and the abrogated verses. On page 120, Dr. Shalabi says,

"Ibn Hazm talks about the necessity of knowing the abrogating and the abrogated (verses) in the Qur’an, and that this knowledge is a necessary condition of legal personal opinion (al-ijtihad). It was related that the Imam ’Ali saw Sa’id ibn al-Hasan presiding in his capacity as a judge in Kufa (Iraq). He asked him, ‘Do you know the abrogating and the abrogated (verses)?’ The judge answered, ‘No.’ He then told him, ‘You have perished and make (others) to perish."’

No doubt that if the judge does not know the abrogating and the abrogated (verses), he may issue his sentence based on an abolished ordinance. A Muslim may ask what is wrong with that? The problem and the crux of the matter is that no one knows exactly what the abrogating and the abrogated (verses) are. Scholars disagree on pinpointing the abrogated (verses). In page 118, Dr. Shalabi says,

"Some scholars like ibn Hazm in his book, ‘The Abrogating and Abrogator’ (verses), have exaggerated (the issue of) abrogation to an extent which is unacceptable even to linguistic taste. He examined the Qur’an chapter by chapter and showed the abrogating and the abrogated in each of them. We disagree with him in this procedure."

Then, in the same book, "The History of Islamic Law", he says,

"We have to pinpoint the abrogating and the abrogated verses to be a ray of light for the students of the history of Islamic law. We will quote the Suyuti because he was sparing in his call for abrogation. He inclines toward rejecting excessive abrogation. Though the Suyuti believes that the abrogated verses are twenty, still we do not agree with him on all of them."

So what can the students of the Islamic law and the judges like the judge of Kufa do? Ibn Hazm has recorded many abrogating and abrogated verses, then the Suyuti came after him and eliminated many of them and ended with only twenty verses. Later, Dr. Shalabi indicated that he disagreed even with the Suyuti on some of them. The disagreement on this matter is not a simple issue. It is very serious because knowing these verses is a basic condition in applying Islamic law and in the science of jurisprudence, as Dr. Shalabi indicated. It is well known that the "Ijtihad" (deduction of a legal opinion) is the third source of the Islamic law after the Qur’an and the tradition according to all Muslim scholars (refer to p. 24). That was the trend during the time of Muhammad, the companions and the Caliphs—the Qur’an first, then tradition, then the Itjihad (refer to p. 156).

Secondly: God abrogates any desire Satan frames in the heart and the tongue of Muhammad. This means that Satan has the power to infuse certain verses in what Muhammad claims to be an inspiration from God. Satan was able to place on Muhammad’s tongue certain words by which he praised the pagans’ gods. This incident is confirmed and recorded by Suyuti, Jalalan, ibn Kathir (part 3, p. 229), Baydawi, Zamakhshari, ibn Hisham, and even ibn Abbas himself along with the rest of the companions. It is all recorded in the Qur’an, chapter 22:52,

"Never sent we a messenger or a prophet before you but when he recited the message Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof but Allah abolishes that which Satan proposes."

The Suyuti says in Asbab of the Nuzul (p. 184),

"Muhammad was in Mecca. He read the chapter of the Star. When he uttered, ‘Have you seen the Lat, the ’Uzza, and the other third Manat?’, Satan instilled in his tongue, ‘These are the exulted idols (daughters of God) whose intercession is hoped.’ The infidels said that Muhammad had mentioned their gods with good words. Then when he prostrated, they prostrated, too. Thus, the above verse 22:52 was not inspired."

On page 282 of the Commentary of the Jalalan, we read the same interpretation, and the Jalalan added,

"Gabriel came to Muhammad after that and told him that Satan had thrust these words into his tongue. Muhammad became sad, then Gabriel delivered this verse to him to comfort him."

This verse, as the Jalalan remarked, comforted Muhammad because it revealed that all the prophets and the apostles who came before Muhammad had experienced this trial and not just Muhammad. It is obvious here that this is false and spurious because no one ever heard that any of the apostles or the prophets had been exposed to such trials in which Satan made them utter what they proclaimed to be a revelation from God, then they later claimed it was Satan and not God who revealed it to them. If we refer to the commentary of the Baydawi (p. 447), we find that he agrees with the Suyuti and Jalalan and adds,

"Muhammad desired that a Qur’an which brings his people closer to God and does alienate them may be bestowed on him; thus, Satan ill-whispered these words to him."

In his book, "The Kash-shaf’, the Zamakh-shari (part 3, pp. 164, 165), asserts that,

"This episode which Muhammad experienced is common knowledge and unquestionable, and is related to us by the companions of Muhammad."

Thank you, Mr. Zamakh-shari!

It is appropriate here to refer to ibn Hisham’s statement in his book, "The Prophetic Biography". This book relies on the testimonies of Muhammad’s companions. It is also the major source for all Muslims who always quote it. In part 2, p. 126, ibn Hisham says,

"When some Muslims immigrated to Ethiopia, they received the news that the inhabitants of Mecca had accepted them. They returned to find that it was false news The reason was that the apostle of God, as he was reading the chapter of Star (53:19, 20), mentioned the idols of Mecca. Satan instilled in his recitation their praises and he (Muhammad) acknowledged their intervention. The infidels were overjoyed and said, ‘He mentioned our idols (gods) with good words.’ Then God sent down this verse (22:52). Gabriel told Muhammad, ‘I did not bring to you these verses (about the idols)."’

No one can accuse Salman Rushdi, in regard to the Satanic verses, of making false claims against Islam and the Qur’an because this incident is acknowledged by all Muslim scholars along with Muhammad’s companions and his relatives, especially ibn ’Abbas himself.

If we cannot comprehend how God abrogates what He Himself has inspired, we can easily understand that He abrogates what Satan utters as is recorded in verse (22:52). Yet, we have here two important questions:

First, how was Satan able to distort the inspiration and to deceive Muhammad so that he told the people that these were God’s words, then later he reversed himself and told them, "No, Satan was the one who ill-whispered to me with these words?" Muslims believe that prophets and apostles are infallible—in matters of inspiration, at least.

The second question is also very important. How was Satan able to imitate the Qur’anic text with its Arabic eloquence and profound diction? If the Arabic reader re-read Satan’s words to Muhammad he should immediately realize that they possess the same Qur’anic literary characteristics, eloquence and style. It is impossible to distinguish them from the rest of the Qur’anic verses.

Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy (Q.4:82)

Sura 34:50 commands Muhammad to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own loss," which is a severe factual error in the Qur'an as well as contradicting the teaching of the Qur'an in a number of other verses.


Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?

Some Muslim call it Naskeh or sometime like what you qouted there is not abrogation in this. I very well know about Abrogation in the Quran and this is what some muslim Scholars expound and this is not accepted as a General Truth You and I know this but let us look at the 2 other quranic verses you quoted carefully and see if there is any Abrogation.

Please try to Quote the Quran when making a Statement

002.240
YUSUFALI: Those of you who die and leave widows should bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence; but if they leave (The residence), there is no blame on you for what they do with themselves, provided it is reasonable. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.


PICKTHAL: (In the case of) those of you who are about to die and leave behind them wives, they should bequeath unto their wives a provision for the year without turning them out, but if they go out (of their own accord) there is no sin for you in that which they do of themselves within their rights. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

SHAKIR: And those of you who die and leave wives behind, (make) a bequest in favor of their wives of maintenance for a year without turning (them) out, then if they themselves go away, there is no blame on you for what they do of lawful deeds by themselves, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

As Against


004.012
YUSUFALI: In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.

PICKTHAL: And unto you belongeth a half of that which your wives leave, if they have no child; but if they have a child then unto you the fourth of that which they leave, after any legacy they may have bequeathed, or debt (they may have contracted, hath been paid). And unto them belongeth the fourth of that which ye leave if ye have no child, but if ye have a child then the eighth of that which ye leave, after any legacy ye may have bequeathed, or debt (ye may have contracted, hath been paid). And if a man or a woman have a distant heir (having left neither parent nor child), and he (or she) have a brother or a sister (only on the mother's side) then to each of them twain (the brother and the sister) the sixth, and if they be more than two, then they shall be sharers in the third, after any legacy that may have been bequeathed or debt (contracted) not injuring (the heirs by willing away more than a third of the heritage) hath been paid. A commandment from Allah. Allah is Knower, Indulgent.


SHAKIR: And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they have no child, but if they have a child, then you shall have a fourth of what they leave after (payment of) any bequest they may have bequeathed or a debt; and they shall have the fourth of what you leave if you have no child, but if you have a child then they shall have the eighth of what you leave after (payment of) a bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt; and if a man or a woman leaves property to be inherited by neither parents nor offspring, and he (or she) has a brother or a sister, then each of them two shall have the sixth, but if they are more than that, they shall be sharers in the third after (payment of) any bequest that may have been bequeathed or a debt that does not harm (others); this is an ordinance from Allah: and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.


THE PRINCIPLE OF ABROGATION I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A VERSE IN THE QURAN THAT SUPPORT THIS THESIS. PLEASE HELP ME WITH WHERE I CAN THIS. WETHER IN THE QURAN OR THE HADITH.

I needed to pray this prayer for the sake of The body of Christ

Dear Brothers and Sisters.

I have read through all what you have all said and I must say that I am happy in all things the Gospel is preached. Whatsoever be just whatsoever be righteous whatsoever be pure and if there be any praise if there virtue think on this.

If I were Pastor Chris or his Friend i would do 2 things

1) Return the money with Interest
2) preach very strong messages against this Evil act of stealing and giving to the Church.

My brethren if Jesus was here he would have returned the money. we are to be meek our master and God replaced the ear of the Soldier.

Please lets us not struggle the with the world with things of the world. Satan will have right over the church if the money is kept.

Lord Why is this disgrace coming at a time when you said that you will raise a standard. Your sanctuary is Defiled by satan. Lord where is the standard? We need your holy Spirit Lord the people have gone with the traditions of men.

My father the men you have called are busy enriching themselves and have left their first love. Mighty God when you came and spent 33years on this world about 2000 years ago Lucifer the son of the morning star did not have this grip of the earth but now he is ruling the hearts of men and men are borne in sin and woredomity is rife Lord. Anything is accepted in the Church we have slept with many gods and taken from evil spirits.

Your holiness that you came to DIE for has been soiled. We all have gone astray there is evil in our hearts the Sanctuary is defiled. Ah Lord take this reproach from us oh Lord. We are menstrous people no seed of holiness holds. We are like dogs that eaten our own vomits we are taken the truth with the evil eye of gain.

Yea Lord Your Anger is against us and you are ready to see blood because you will require your Spirit back as you gave in the day of Creation. Lord I am writing to you not to Flatter you but I am saddened that The Pigs have the jewels of Holiness and regard it not. You will kill us if we are not holy as your eyes are pure to behold iniquity. Lord send the Holy Ghost send it To bring Holiness.

You have sent Jesus Your only Begotten please send the great Holy AlMighty holy Ghost so that we return to you almighty. The souls of men are held up by desire of the Goods of Egypt. Your Church is competing with Egypt and The evil spirits laugh at our Folly. Please do something for the sake of your son Jesus.

Many souls have perished and are now in Hell fire because The Spirit of The holy one did not make us holy so that we could save this damed souls with our Life styles and words. The host of hell are rejoicing and the bottomless pit expands everyday recieving the souls of men that would have been saved.

Lord In your anger you have killed those that you could have saved. But Lord you are just and your salvation is in your name Lord you are holy and you loved us that you sent your son to save us. souls of the young men are lost, It is not the population of the Church member that is the issue but lost souls that are trouping to hell with great zeal.


The host of hell are laughing at the righteousness because they are sackcloth. Ah Lord you said it were better we were naked so that you can cloth us with your Righteousnes.

Please Lord help us I beg you give us your Holy Spirit that will make us holy again and without sin as we were when we in the Garden of Eden before we sinned against you. They have told a lie and there is none that showeth mercy. They are acting as though they made man, There is no mercy Lord. You are the father of mercy and please send your Spirit to bring nothing but holiness.

In Jesus Name

Amen

Dear Brother,

Thank you very much you have said it The same mind you use to Judge your Quran you cannot use it to Judge the bible. The bible is tried seven times and it is pure.

Your book of lies is incomplete and please I am not trying to offend you but there is falsehood in the Quran.

You when telling me that The bible is false the poster quoted some professor and I am quoting Aisha tell me aisha is wrong?

Anyway look at the scripture for yourself.

regards

XXXXXX