₦airaland Forum

@kag

Lets us Debate with Decorium. God Bless

@Omot28

I am sorry I labelled you wrongly I know the doctrines of Jw and That of The Church of Christ. I have debated this people also.

My understanding of God and The bible is by him and only God. I have quoted the different parts of the bible. The apostles have been quoted by TayoD and you have Never disputed the Apostles.

I am not however suprised that you don't want to sincerely read the bible in context.  The HEBREW WORD FOR GOD IS IN THE PLURAL, Some Say it is Used STRONGLY to conote his Deity,   THE QUESTION NOW IS DID THE SINGULAR WORD ELOAH EXIST BEFORE ELOHIM?

I have the Audio of The Hebrew bible.

Now To point you said Jesus was Created. If he were Created then we are doomed as Believers of Christ. But Thank God The Father he was Not Created.

John 1:1,14  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, "

This shows that Jesus is God in flesh he was never CREATED just as you don't create ICE BLOCK You transform it from Water to Ice

Steam Water and Ice have the same major components Hydrogen and Oxygen but they are very different in Character. this is the Similarity.
John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”
With Exodus 3:14 "God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

You see my brother Jesus uses the same title for Himself that God uses of Himself.

If you say that the verse is really, "I have been", then why did the Jews want to kill him -- especially when in John 10:30-33[b] they say they want to kill Him because He claimed to be God?[/b]  Where and what did Jesus say to cause them to think that?


John 10:30-33, “I and the Father are one. 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

I could Imagine how tough it was for Jesus to Explain to man. He The Most High Himself explaining to Mortal insignificant man.


You also claim that because Jesus was sent and he was praying to the father he was Created or a mere man. I really don't want to quote the book revelation but I may do so, So look now When Jesus asked he is THE GREATEST IN HEAVEN. THE SUBMISSIVE BE THE GREATEST. He even went on to say like little babes.

That is why Jesus Name is Exalted above every other name and at the Mention every nee shall bow,   

I rest my Case for now. if you want us to go into the very Aspect of the bible where Jesus is Clearly God be ready to read your Bible and I will you by his Help.

@omot28

I believe you are Jehovah Witness I have Debated with this people for a long time.

Lets look At Genesis very well You Claim Jesus is an Angel? he was Created? I know in your bible they still have the proof because the aspect of the Jehovah witness Bible does not have the quotes in the gospels and epistles because they expunged it. I normally Debate them with their own bible the part they forgot to expunge it.

The LORD HAS ALREADY BEEN HERE BEFORE

GEN: 18 ver 1 And the LORD appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Now watch what happens

Verse 2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth,

Out of the three one was speaking listen

Verse 10 And He said: 'I will certainly return unto thee when the season cometh round; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son.' And Sarah heard in the tent door, which was behind him.--


Notice that it was one out of the three that was talking here again and the word LORD in capital letter

13[b] And the LORD said unto Abraham:[/b] 'Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying: Shall I of a surety bear a child, who am old?

If you read down to the end you will that in[b] Verse 33 it says the LORD WENT HIS way[/b].

So be not deceived the Lord came down with only 2 Escort This time in the form of an Angel but he was still called LORD YHWH (Tetragramaton) as some call it.

Please note

The JW's agree with the Pharisees who condemned Jesus, that Jesus is not God in flesh. They accused Jesus of claiming to be God (John 10:33). But, of course they denied that Jesus was God, just the same as the JW's do.
Does the term SON OF GOD mean that Jesus is not God? Of so, then does the term SON OF MAN mean that Jesus is not a man?

If the term SON OF GOD means that Jesus is a man, then what does the term SON OF MAN mean?

If the term Son of Man means that Jesus is a man, then what does the term Son of God mean?
John 1:1 is dealing with God's nature since it says the word was God. Dealing with the nature of God we understand that there is only one God (Is. 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5). To say that the Word was "a" god is far too close to polytheism in the context.


Please get back to me. I cannot convert anyone only the Dynamo can ( GOD THE HOLY GHOST)

THe THREE ARE DIFFERENT BUT LOVE IS THERE NAME. HOW I WISH TO BE LIKE THEM!

Contrary to popular imagery, hunting Christians was not the first priority of the Roman Empire. Only under the specific direction of reigning emperors and at times of particular crisis (which were put down to the Christians not worshipping the state gods) were persecutions enforced:

Nero.
Trajan (98-117) wrote the famous response to Pliny the Younger's letter regarding how Christians should be treated. Also, Ignatius of Antioch was martyred in his reign.
Septimius Severus (193-211) ordered provincial governors to round up Christians and punish them according to the local governor's preference.
Decius launched the first Empire wide persecution against Christians in 250, but military concerns soon led to a loss of interest and the persecution was stopped.
Valerian had led Decius' persecution and in 257 he re-enacted the original edict and in 258 added more stringent measures that targeted clergy with summary execution.
The Great Persecution 303-311 of Diocletian (284-305) was the most extreme; he ordered Christian buildings (and the homes of Christians) torn down, their sacred books collected and burned, and Christians themselves were denied the protection offered other citizens by Roman law. Christians were arrested, tortured, mutilated, burned, starved, and forced to gladiatorial contests to amuse spectators. His successor Galerius (305-311) was responsible for the more draconian aspects of this persecution, and some argue that it was he who persuaded Diocletian to launch the persecution after the success of the persecution against the Manichees, a religion based in Persia, then a resurgent threat to the Empire's Eastern border.
Most of the time Christianity was tolerated, though not officially allowed. Alexander Severus was even friendly to the Christian movement and built a shrine to Jesus in his own home next to his shrines to the Roman gods. [citation needed] After emperor Valerian was captured by the Persians in 260, his son and successor Gallienus abandoned the persecution of Christians. Until the start of the Great Persecution, Christianity enjoyed over 40 years of relative peace without major persecutions.

The Great Persecution officially ended in 311, when Galerius, then senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, issued an edict of toleration, which granted Christians the right to practice their religion, though it did not restore any property to them.


[edit] Constantine's conversion

Constantine's conversion, by Rubens.
[edit] Sincerity
Constantine is best known for being the first Roman Emperor to embrace Christianity, although he may have continued in his pre-Christian beliefs as well. Fifth Century historian Salminius Hermias Sozomen wrote that Constantine was converted to Christianity in Gaul and Britain saying:

, that it was then no easy matter to dwell in Gaul, in Britain, or in the neighboring countries, in which it is universally admitted Constantine embraced the religion of the Christians,, [1]
Some modern scholars, however, question the historicity of his conversion. [citation needed] This includes those who refer to the Church tradition that he was not baptised until his deathbed, and it was only witnessed by the same Christian leaders that made the subsequent claims of his baptism. That delay is likely to be linked to a then widely held belief that only pre-baptismal sins could be forgiven, so many postponed baptism as long as they could. [citation needed]

Constantine even turned to preaching in later life, giving his own sermons in the palace before his court and invited crowds, preaching harmony at first, but gradually turning more confrontational with the old pagan ways. The reason for this later "change of heart" remains conjectural.

Many historians, including philospher Bertrand Russell, believe Constantine favored Christianity due to its organization and contagious zeal:

“In the modern world, we are accustomed to political organization; every politician has to reckon with the Catholic vote, but it is balanced by the vote of other organized groups. A Catholic candidate for the Presidency is at a disadvantage, because of Protestant prejudice. But, if there were no such thing as Protestant prejudice, a Catholic candidate would stand a better chance than any other. This seems to have been Constantine's calculation. The support of the Christians, as a single organized bloc, was to be obtained by favouring them. Whatever dislike of the Christians existed was unorganized and politically ineffective. Probably Rostovtseff is right in holding that a large part of the army was Christian, and that this was what most influenced Constantine. However that may be, the Christians, while still a minority, had a kind of organization which was then new, though now common, and which gave them all the political influence of a pressure group to which no other pressure groups are opposed. This was the natural consequence of their virtual monopoly of zeal, and their zeal was an inheritance from the Jews." Bertrand Russell, a History of Western Philosophy
Peter Novak also alludes in his book Original Christianity that Constantine utilized Christianity to strike fear and condemn souls to eternal damnation:

"With a renewed alignment of church and state, the people would no longer merely fear the ability of the state to take their lives, but would then also fear its ability to condemn their souls to eternal damnation in the afterlife. A government that could get the population to believe it had such power would possess the most successful populace control system imaginable." Peter Novak, Original Christianity

[edit] Constantine's vision
The traditional story of Constantine's conversion is presented as Constantine seeing an omen in the sky whilst marching along with his troops — in front of the sun, the shape of an ambigram cross with two Greek letters, chi (Χ) and rho (Ρ) (the first two letters of the Greek ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ, Christos, or Christ) along with a Greek inscription reading "Εν τούτω Νίκα", En Touto Nika (meaning "with(in) this you win", which is often translated into the more familiar Latin: In hoc signo vinces (meaning "in this sign thou shalt conquer" before his victory in the Battle of Milvian Bridge on October 28, 312.

Either upon seeing this vision or upon being instructed to use the emblem he had just seen as a standard in a dream afterwards [citation needed], Constantine is said to have instituted a new standard to be carried into battle, the labarum. Another major religion of the time, Sol Invictus, also used a similar symbol. [citation needed]

There are at least three different surviving ancient versions of this battle in greater detail, not all of them are by prominent Christian apologists:

Panegyric of Constantine, sees the vision as from Apollo as Constantine's patron (Panegyrici Latini VI (7), 21 from 310);
Lactantius, Of the manner in which the persecutors died, 44;
Eusebius of Caesarea, The life of Constantine, 24-31;
Zosimus, New History, 2 (43,44) (this version seems to have numerous owls as an omen of victory, and is by a hostile pagan).
It should be noted that historical sources of the 4th century Roman Empire seem to be unusually rich in omens, magic, hexes and spells, while lacking in critical inquiry.[2] A suspicion of literacy and higher learning which began at least a century before had grown. These may have been the results of the fear and high mortality rates caused by the first and second outbreak of the Antonine Plague (165 - 180 and 251 - 266 respectively).


[edit] Other influences
Family influence is also thought to account for Constantine's alleged later, death-bed adoption of Christianity: Helena is said to be "probably born a Christian" though virtually nothing is known of her background, save that her mother was the daughter of an innkeeper and her father a successful soldier, a career that excluded overt Christians. Helena became known later in life for numerous pilgrimages.

The sign in the sky was not in Latin but Greek: En touto Nika (in this, victory). Also, Constantine was responsible for declaring Sunday to be a day of rest for the empire, though early Christians had already been celebrating on Sunday (as opposed to on Saturday, the day of the Jewish Sabbath) since the first century because it was the day of the Resurrection. Sunday was the day which the Roman state had dedicated to Sol Invictus (following the Egyptian tradition of associating that day with the worship of the sun), the main rival religion to Christianity at the time, and of which Constantine was chief priest (pontifex maximus) until his death.


[edit] Constantine's edicts and actions

Coin of Constantine I, making a benediction gesture, with his sons, enthroned.Along with his co-Emperor Licinius, Constantine was the first to grant Christianity the status of an allowed religion (religio licta). Their so-called Edict of Milan of 313 removed penalties for professing Christianity , under which many had been martyred in previous persecutions of Christians (ie legalized it), and returned confiscated Church property. However, it neither made paganism illegal nor made Christianity a state-sponsored religion, but instead granted religious freedom.

There is no historical evidence that an Edict of Milan was ever issued as a formal legal document[3]. Licinius after returning to his Eastern portion of the Empire, issued a decree from Constantine and himself, but we have no surviving writing from Constantine on this topic. What is claimed as the text of the edict [2] is not a joint "Edict of Milan," but something issued by Licinius in the East.


[edit] Public office
After the Edict, new avenues were opened to Christians, including the right to compete with pagan Romans in the traditional cursus honorum for high government positions, and greater acceptance into general civil society.

Constantine respected cultivation, and his court was composed of older, respected, and honored men. Leading Roman families that refused Christianity were denied positions of power, yet pagans still received appointments, even up to the end of his life, and two-thirds of his top government was non-Christian.[4]


[edit] Army
Considered a critical component of Roman society, the army was a prime target for conversion. Exerting his absolute power, Constantine had the army recite his composed Latin prayer in an attempt to convert them to Christianity, which failed. It was unpopular in the army both because it accepted women, and because the soldiers generally were members of other religions such as those of Mithras and Isis. [citation needed]


[edit] Church building
He began a large building program of churches in the Holy Land, which while greatly expanding the faith also allowed considerable increase in the power and wealth of the clergy. New churches were allowed to be built, often under Constantine's (or his mother Helena's) patronage, under which the church prospered. He gave the Lateran Palace to the Pope, ordered the building of:

in the Holy Land:
the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem
Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem
in Rome:
Saint Peter's Basilica
an oratory now the Basilica di San Lorenzo fuori le Mura
Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls
in Constantinople
Hagia Sophia
the Church of the Holy Apostles where he was entombed.

[edit] Clergy
The clergy were patronised by Constantine, and received legal perks. Christian leadership became increasingly bold — Christian bishops became prominent and took aggressive public stances that were unheard of among other religions, drawing a hostile pagan reaction and the outlawing of public Proselytism. [citation needed]


[edit] Internal church controversy
Christianity's new status meant that church controversies, lively within the Christian communities since the mid-2nd century, now flared (often with violent acts) into public schisms — see, for example, the Donatist schism in Africa. Constantine, believing himself divinely appointed, saw quelling religious disorder as the divinely-appointed emperor's duty. [citation needed] He therefore called the 314 Council of Arles against the Donatists and, after becoming Emperor of the East, the first Ecumenical Council: the First Council of Nicaea (May 20 - July 25, 325), to settle some of the doctrinal problems plaguing early Christianity, notably Arianism and Quartodecimanism.


[edit] Legal reforms
Constantine's laws enforced and reflected his Christian reforms:

Crucifixion was abolished for reasons of Christian piety, but was replaced with hanging, to show there was Roman law and justice.
Easter could be publicly celebrated.
On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed (CJ 3.12.2). (except for the purpose of freeing slaves). However, there were no restrictions on farming work (which was the work of the great majority of the population).[5]
Some were even humane in the modern sense, possibly originating in his Christianity:

A prisoner was no longer to be kept in total darkness, but must be given the outdoors and daylight.
A condemned man was allowed to die in the arena, but he could not be branded on his "heavenly beautified" face, just on the feet (because God made man in His image).
Gladiatorial games were ordered to be eliminated in 325, although this had little real effect.
A slave master's rights were limited, but a slave could still be beaten to death.

[edit] Opposing paganism?
Neither the Edict nor later Constantinian legislation outlawed paganism. However, :"From Pagan temples Constantine had his statue removed. The repair of Pagan temples that had decayed was forbidden. These funds were given to the favored Christian clergy. Offensive forms of worship, either Christian or Pagan, were suppressed. At the dedication of Constantinople in 330 a ceremony half Pagan and half Christian was performed, in the market place, the Cross of Christ was placed over the head of the Sun-God's chariot [with], a singing of hymns."[6]

Pagans were also still wary of Christians for their public refusal to "sacrifice and build idols" (which some modern writers see as an oath of allegiance). Consistent with the Roman idea that they ruled by the favor of the gods, refusal to build idols was seen as something that might easily bring upon all the Roman people the loss of the divine favor and protection. In hoc signo vinco was an attempt to show that this new god also gave Rome divine protection.

Also, as Christianity began to move from a position of toleration to one of preference after Constantine, followers of the old religion turned to appeals to the state to protect their own traditions. For example, in 340, when the Altar of Victory was desecrated and removed from its place of honor in the Senate, the Senate deputized Quintus Aurelius Symmachus, prefect of Rome, to appeal to the Emperor for its return. In his plea for freedom of religion, Symmachus publicly characterized the late Emperor Constantine's policy thus:

"[Constantine] diminished none of the privileges of the sacred virgins, he filled the priestly offices with nobles, he did not refuse the cost of the Roman ceremonies, and following the rejoicing Senate through all the streets of the eternal city, he contentedly beheld the shrines with unmoved countenance, he read the names of the gods inscribed on the pediments, he enquired about the origin of the temples, and expressed admiration for their builders. Although he himself followed another religion, he maintained its own for the empire, for everyone has his own customs, everyone his own rites. The divine mind has distributed different guardians and different cults to different cities. As souls are separately given to infants as they are born, so to peoples the genius of their destiny." (Possible Christian insertion in italics.)
—Medieval sourcebook: "The Memorial of Symmachus, prefect of the City". (The Memorial has been emended to address three emperors, Valentinian II (died 392), Theodosius I, and Arcadius. Arcadius was named co-ruler of his father and Augustus in January, 383. So the address to the three Augusti could have been written anywhere between 383 and 392. There may be Christian adulterations of the text. The reply of Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, is appended, which is highly revealing in the character of his argument in rebuttal.)[7]

[edit] Constantine and the Jews
See also: Christianity and anti-Semitism#The Emperor Constantine the Great
Constantine instituted several legislative measures regarding the Jews: they were forbidden to own Christian slaves or to circumcise their slaves. Conversion of Christians to Judaism was outlawed. Congregations for religious services were restricted, but Jews were allowed to enter Jerusalem on Tisha B'Av, the anniversary of the destruction of the Temple. Constantine also supported the separation of the date of Easter from the Jewish Passover (see also Quartodecimanism), stating in his letter after the First Council of Nicaea: ", it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. , Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way." [8]. Theodoret's Ecclesiastical History 1.9 records the Epistle of the Emperor Constantine addressed to those Bishops who were not present at the Council: "It was, in the first place, declared improper to follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this holy festival, because, their hands having been stained with crime, the minds of these wretched men are necessarily blinded. , Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries. , avoiding all contact with that evil way. , who, after having compassed the death of the Lord, being out of their minds, are guided not by sound reason, but by an unrestrained passion, wherever their innate madness carries them. , a people so utterly depraved. , Therefore, this irregularity must be corrected, in order that we may no more have any thing in common with those parricides and the murderers of our Lord. , no single point in common with the perjury of the Jews." [9]


[edit] Reactions and reflection

[edit] Persian reaction
Beyond the limes, east of the Euphrates, the Sassanid rulers of the Persian Empire had usually tolerated their Christians. A letter supposedly from Constantine to Shapur II (both lived and reigned from 310 to 379), written in c. 324 urged him to protect the Christians in his realm. With the edicts of toleration in the Roman Empire, Christians in Persia would now be regarded as allies of Persia's ancient enemy, and were thus persecuted. Shapur II wrote to his generals:

You will arrest Simon, chief of the Christians. You will keep him until he signs this document and consents to collect for us a double tax and double tribute from the Christians … for we Gods have all the trials of war and they have nothing but repose and pleasure. They inhabit our territory and agree with Caesar, our enemy. (quoted in Freya Stark, Rome on the Euphrates 1967, p. 375)
The Sassanids were perennially at war with Rome, (which incidentally raises further doubt on the authenticity of this letter). Christians were now suspected for potential treachery. The "Great Persecution" of the Persian Christian churches occurred in a later period, 340 to 363, after the Persian Wars that reopened upon Constantine's death. In 344 came the martyrdom of Catholicos Shimun bar Sabbae, with five bishops and 100 priests.


[edit] Historical reflections on Constantine's actions
Christian historians ever since Lactantius have adhered to the view that Constantine "adopted" Christianity as a kind of replacement for the official Roman paganism. Though the document called the "Donation of Constantine" was proved a forgery (though not until the 15th century, when the stories of Constantine's conversion were long-established "facts" it was attributed as documenting the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christianity for centuries. Even Christian skeptics have accepted this formulation, though seeing Constantine's policy as a political one, unifying and strengthening the Empire, rather than a spiritual move. Still the Edict of Milan indicated that reverence to the divine, as shown by past events, was for the good of the Roman Empire.

Despite the questions surrounding Constantine, he is celebrated as a major Saint of Eastern Orthodoxy, together with his mother Helena (both feasted on 21 May). The emperor is not only considered an example of a "Christian monarch" (isapostolos - "equal to the Apostles", he is associated, albeit in retrospect, with the idea of a "Second Rome" - the Byzantine one.

@rev

I thought the same too and I was very Critical of the Bible. I am a scientist in nature I always ask WHY WHAT AND WHEN.

Read History Of the Bible by A Jew Called Josephus he was not a Christian, He was just an Intellect that put history down.

The Final nail of the Coffin!


Col. 1:15-16, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."

@Avsnet

I disagree

Let us look at the same John 20 verse 28

Thomas called Jesus God by saying to Jesus, "My Lord and My God". If Jesus is not God, then why did Jesus did not correct Thomas. Four verses later, it says that this is written so you might believe that Jesus is the son of God, (John 20:31). Therefore, we can see that the term Son of God is saying that Jesus is God.


Col. 2:9, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,"


Phil. 2:5-7, "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."


Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [The Father] says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, "

If Jesus is not God, why does God Himself call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?

Please answer this one

Shalom

There are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one God, the same in essence, equal in power and glory (1 Jn. 5:7; Matt. 28:19).

1 Jn. 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus Himself said in Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

@mustay

The Triune God ELOHIM is the one I worship. No Trinity no Heaven. Jesus was Striped of his Godship and can to become man so that he could pay the price and draws us to the Father. The Holy Ghost he left with us to bring us back in remembrance of him and teaches his word.

I worship the Triune God Elohim The God of Abram Isaac Isreal and The Mighty Terrible one.

@avsnet

I thank for your quote but you did not explain your position. I am ready to Debate in good way with you My aim is not to win the Arguement but to leave you opened asking more question that only be answered by God Elohim.

Elohim In the Old Testament was Used over 2500.

From where you Quoted It said

"Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, 2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. 4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

Look very careful He was there before the world was made He was talking here of his Divinity to US as the SON of GOD
He said GLORIFY THY SON SO THAT THY SON MAKE GLORIFY THEE no the angel has the right to say this. you see they being equal as Deities but he says Again as Though he were a mere man Empowered by God since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him

But again as

21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Notice the word[b] US [/b] good he was talking as Co-equal we have seen the Angel in several other places in the bible they never spoke with this Authority.

@reverend

please I dont think you are interested in this. You want to dabble in what you dont know and believe in? The hebrew Old testament is ancient it has been prooving over thousands of years. please be objective.

Read The Hebrew  בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת     הָאָרֶץ.

As I told you before I am versed In war and history I would been a soldier if not for God.  Please My friend Mr Reverend let me argue with people that have there problem with ELOHIM. You neither Beleive none of them.

So no point arguing with you.

God Jesus God Holy Ghost And God The Father.

THIS THREE ARE DIFFERENT AND DISTINCT IN THE HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT THEY KNOW THIS

In Hebrew, God is Elohim—plural of Eloah. If You Listen To Hebrew Bible reader In Genesis 1 You will see that The Word Elohim is used and not Eloah.
The Triuness of God is In the Hebrew Bible The Jews Knows this!

@pataki

there is alot of discrepiancy in the Quran and this Islamist Spend a lot of time on other books than their own. They will run away from Arguements about this and tell you They are not versed to argue with you.

The Quran to me is A fraud. You can disaproove this so please let me hear it.

@olabowale

I think you are not fair at all The lord is is for man. In yoruba the Oluwa has meaning We have "Oluwa mi" this could mean my head or husband. WE have OLUWA This means God.

In Ewe language is the same Use of words They say SORUN ( THE SAME WORD FOR HUSBAND AND WIFE) But APETOR IS Lord of the HOUSE. But when praying in Jesus name they say APETOR MAWU or APETOR YESU.

The lord in the bible varies you have to know the language of the bible to understand it meet the holy Ghost brother.

The deity of Christ is the soul purpose why Jesus was not accepted as the Christ by the Jews up till now. The Jews know that the Christ is God himself but they expected one that will be militant (Zealot) but were very musch confused when they saw he was meek and did not carry any strategy to over throw their roman oppresors at that time.

THE CHRIST IS THE MESSIAH AND THE MESSIAH IS GOD HIMSELF. " he shall be called Mighty GOD" he had to come first to make peace and he is coming again to make war.

@ jaybaba and Subcareer.

There is no constitution that is perfect in the world. We ust work with the window we have so as to get the door. The kingmaking process may be flawed but we must take our chances.

A good leader can make Nigeria great in 2 years I tell you But he must be Organic In action.

THE PEOPLE MUST BE THEIR OWN POLICE
THEY MUST BUILD THEIR OWN ROADS
THEY PLANT THEIR OWN FOODS
SOW AND WEAR THER OWN CLOTHES

THIS LEADER MUST JUST WORK WITH A CORE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN ( 10MILLION) HE MUST DIRECT THIS CORE WITH ALL HIS MIGHT AND THIS WILL BE HIS LEGACY

You see CORESM is very powerful in building a united state they will be loyal to the state and only that alone will be the driving force of a new Nigeria

Listen carefully You motice that the core of Nigerian is dejected, they are greedy, very insolent, arrogant, feel there is no hope, some think of making money quickly and some move into violent crime because of social insecurity.

SOCIAL SECURITY

HOUSING
I asked a guy here in Ghana that if all of outside Naija had houses in Nigeria with 24 hours light would we leave our country?

If the people could build houses in groups or you can use this CORE people SYSTEM. we need to build hundred story building with simple apartments this will stop corruption. People must own Houses not land per se. An 18 year old is thinking of buying land and building a house that is not right. The housing loan must be put in place one of the greatest reason for corruption is Africa is housing.

A man works for decades and is thrown out when he retires his ingenuity will make him steal. The right thing is while he works you take money out of his salary to build more houses like in a mortgage.

You see all this Ideas if the leader has not the love for his people to be great forget it! The love must be there he ust dream his people think his people and act jis people only then shall he make them great with Gods help. There are Flaws in King making The Issue should be about making the people great wether Flaws or no Flaws.

WE Succeeded with the GSM

WHy not use the style for creating more Refineries
Why not use the Style for Creating TRANSPORT SERVICE IN NIGERIA
You can make Naija Great so easily The asset we have is the people and Number

@babs787

I have read your post and I argued with you or Olabowale on The Hadith, You failed to tell me which one is the real one.

You tell me you know the so well and you cant read the quoted bible that was paintakingly written for you. This is not right.

You know within your heart that you are not JUST. Reading all the you have quoted you say because of sect in christianity that is why you left. Dont get me Wrong God is not looking for number, Minus you or Me God will be God.

Your Islam has the same problem that any religion has is the Human aspect of religion, even worse does Islam has only time will expose Islam.
There various sect in Islam

SUFIST BELIEVE IN SPIRITUALITY IN ISLAM ( Sudan Ombduman)
Shite ( AHmadis) IRAN
Sunnis SAUDIA ARABIA

Sunni and shite are fighting now in Iraq

You must know that we know or different grouping in Nigeria when I was there Ansar Ur deen Anwaru Islam, Ahmadiya please dont even go there I will bomb you with so many groupings.

A muslim once told me when were discussing that The leader of the Ahmadis died in the Toilet in England I guess he was a Sunni. So please prepare to leave to another religion oh. Use the same measure to Judge.

@enitan

Be not deceived God will break his law because of his love the only law God cannot break is his love he will kill for it he will die (in the case of jesus he was cut of from the remaining 2 person in trinity)

Why have you forgotten Joshua said Moon be thou still!

@Genial
what mockery are you talking about ?
look at you bible and read Strong drink is Evil Flee all evil even its Appearance

Judges 13:4
Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


Isaiah 5:11
Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!


they never miss lahi lahi

There is Coke and Fanta Juice etc that is SOFT WINE
THERE OGOGORO THAT IS STRONG DRINK WINE

THET ARE BOTH WINE

@rev

i can see that you are overwhelmed by the Longsuffering of God he looks as if he not there but when he appears it frightful. I used to make jokes of the born deeperlifers Oh you should see me mock. I joked once that I will continuing sinning and my sins will be so many that he will be angry that he will throw and he mix the target.

I did not agree then that any man or thing could play all i ever did back to me, Now with the advancement of technology a small chip could store a lot of info how much more God himself. Talk is cheap they say but wait when they are about to die there is the fear of the Unknown. Even a man that wants to commit suicide is afraid to die.

Thank you Tayod,

You put the question to rest Hebrew 1v 8 and colosians where it says By him was all things made and all things take existence.

There is no hierachy in The God Head Read John 17

in the begining the was the word and the ,

Please read John Chapter 1 verse 1- 10

1


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2


The same was in the beginning with God.
3


All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4


In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5


And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6


There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7


The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8


He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9


That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10


He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

i will ask you why the Jews wanted to stone him ? This is an evidence for you.

@darl
Yes Jesus as a Human being could not know as a human being he left heaven to be human and not to give them the Expo as if that is why we live.

If you asked Jesus what was not revealed to him by God The father he would not be able to answer you. He did not come with all his power and might that is why he could not answer some of the question because of his love he would have told us.

He love us and The father knew if He had all the information he will tell us. He was man and God There is only one man in The language of the bible that could use the tag I AM


They asked Jesus when they world will end I remember he said when Ye see the Holy city surrounded know that the end is nigh. This is the time we live now.

hello OmoT28

please dont be confused! He is Equal with God Yes there are three HOLY GHOST , SON OF GOD, GOD THE FATHER. this three are equal and they love themselves and hence they coexist in this triuness before there was the creation of time.

Jesus said he is Greater than I. Yes that is true I will explain. In The Love Relationship of God there is no Great, Remember that Jesus said he who believe on him will do greater things? but Jesus as a human was talking as said that God was greater.

In The Beginning Jesus was called the voice of God.

Let me Quote the bible Gen 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This is the holy Ghost.


Notice again here it say the plurality Of The GOD HEAD
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

If you noticed that in verse It said "Let them have Dominion, but Adam was created and not Eve ( atleast not Physically) this is the SPIRITUAL LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE ONLY GOD CAN TEACH YOU AND YOU MUST DO SO IN SILENCE.

Now Listen to this where Jesus came
Gen 3 v
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

The Voice was walking you noticed.

Jesus is the one that has revealed the father in full and this is the mystery of God . It is wonderful to know of this.

@ reverend,

I have read some of your post and I perceive that you just cant see why people will so believe in JESUS. You need to know that there is result in belief of anything, something or someone.

The aspect of belief is so powerful and Jesus uses it to wrought his move. People are dying and will still die for there belief wether muslim Secular Atheist or Christian.

I have studied alot of war Account In my Father Library some of the war was religion Orchestrated. you need to accept this this is not what you learn in a class room.

You may not Reverence Christ but this you will discover will be your belief pattern and if you are one that has followership you will discover that all that come before you will do the same to Christ. And will paste poster of the christ with al maner of comic images.

They will have their day like all those that slap My God and My father and He asked them WHY SLAPPEST THOU ME? They could not answer They did not beg well they will Answer the Question In Eternity. The RUGGED SOLDIER THE MIGHTY MAN OF VALOUR WILL ASK THEM WHY DO YOU MAKE THE IMAGE OF ME TO MOCK ME WHAT DID I DO.

All other souls will answer this question in their own personal way. Research with a open mind and learn about Christ with Reverence.

@reverend

Just wait he will prove himself nobody needs to do that for him the last that did in the old testament paid with it with his life. You dont know the value God Places on the soul.

It says The SOUL that Sinneth It shall Die. The death here is the Spiritual Death ( THE PHILOGY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS TAUGHT BY THE HOLY GHOST) to be dead is to be caught off one soul will be lonely in hell.

Just Imagine A plant that is caught from it root may not seem dead at the beginning but just give it time it will wither and be brown.

So is a man that Sins Against God Love and Patience. God has the Right to Caught some off because the soul uses the Breath of God to Exist in this Physical World. So God does not Directly "Kill" in the Human sense God words Are very powerful if it comes against you then you are in trouble. There is an aspect of God that you or I cant Question his favour. He will show mercy on a Sinner and condemn the self Righteous and religious people. Some may see he is not just but when you know this you will know that you are nothing without him and you will depend on him 100%. Some Christian dont know this aspect and it takes he himself to show you personally.

God can hate you to make you love him God can love you to make you hate him. God has dealt with Isreal so ruthlessly if he did to some others like that I dont know if they will still belive in Him. About millions of jews were slaughted by hitler( This is recorded in the Bible where God said he will stir up the wind and Gather them from everywhere) and look at the suffering in Africa and some say Africans are cursed. The jews were killed robbed raped and chased. Dont get me wrong I dont have any partiality I am jst saying that he deals with people individually and this is a sign of the end of the world.

that is just for one printer company what about Tyndale Zondervan dake Gideon bible there so many The bible is the most printed book in The world it is the most quoted some people quote it and they dont know jesus is the word of God he is the Prince of Peace and the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

Yes Jesus Is 100 percent man and God.

Just as Ice Is water and Steam is water. This is a mystery you cant Understand.

This is the mistake Nigerians make all the time. There is a different between leader and ruler. and there 2 types of leaders. A leader that is corrupt but has the love of his people at heart he is one that is ready to move the people beyond his own personal desire.

That is the difference between mobutu and Hitler. I will rather be ruled by hitler than a mobutu reason is that mobutu had no vision he felt he was superior to his peope and he never thought of his people being great hence you see that they are fighting themselves. On the hand look at Germany that was lead by a wicked Hitler but they are powerfully United.

We need a leader that will set the right structures because he has it as his PERSONAL AGENDA TO MAKE HIS PEOPLE GREAT NOT HIMSELF Even if he was or is an armed robber! I prefer to be ruled by an armed Robber that has the love for Nigeria than a pastor or Cleric that has no love for Nigeria as a united state. To much book has killed Nigeria we need a practicalist I have stated what we must do it is however pertinent that one man does these not assisted by THE UN US SOME PHONY NGO.

To make the the Civil Service and the political ruling class responsive I say they must work for 4 years without any physical pay this will bring in the sacrifice culture that nigeria should imbibe it must start from the top. Our secondary school leaver should be given pratical use of there Education they must serve Nigeria for 6 months or a year. We are at a state of War and we must fight on all sides I am outside Nigeria and I know what i am saying.

Yes You All have good contribution.

The way to go by it is the problem and the attitude towards corruption. In Secular leadership A leader can be Corrupt but he MUST HAVE THE LOVE OF HIS PEOPLE AT HEART.

The fact is true that we dont have real policitian in Africa we have ENTERPRISE POLITICIANS. POLITICS IS THE ONLY WAY to make quick money so it becomes rougher.

The way to go about this is to give powers to the state to manage their resources and only pay to the Federal coffers some percentage we must have a Federal Police service and The state police service. The Federal police service will have a lot of work to do.

They shall move to state by state and setup a State police service that will be mounted by the citizens of the state. this means that if you were born in the state you are a citizen of that state you can naturalise under the law of that state.

so that if there is a problem in a state you shall hold the state governor responsible. you will also have this State have prisons and courts so that there will be the sense of readdress to lawlessness. This system will protect the old and young.

To solve Nigerians problem on power

Let us Use the way we sold the GSM LICENSES.

The government should map out areas where 20 - 30 mini refineries can be made or you can start with 10 or 15 sell the licenses to refine crude oil if one license go for 50 million dollars imagine how much money we shal make the state will be paid some amount where the refinery is located.

You can apply this in Lagos State transport system in a year lagos will be like Europe when you talk of transportation Just sell licenses and set the standard that you must provide 1000 buses that are airconditioned and you must provided maintenance for this buses from the company you bought the buses from, Congestion from our roads will be gone we will interact more Jobs will be created. We can secure our old will live longer because it will be orderly. and to do this there will be a transport police set up.

No more Agbero salaries will be paid A bus driver is worth thousand because he has a good job and he can access loans.
We should build room and kitchen for young men so that they can stay in the country and not hink of building big houses they may never live inside.

The State must tax house owners

I have so many things in my head.

olabowale:
Only God knows it alone and those with knowledge and purity of heart.

I thought the Quran would have this answer Since you Claim it was Written by him?

olabowale:
In six days God created everything. Heavens and earth are created within this days, maybe two or four.

Which is Which and what about the 8 days?? please help me and What about the Calculation on the Inheritance

olabowale:
Infact is thre a description of the lenght of a day with God relative to ours in the Bible?

I never quoted the bible let us stick with the quran because this is a book you dont Agree with but it says a day is like a thousand and vis visa. your Quran says different right ? please make a logical defense same way you put your contradiction of the Bible

@reverend,

I see that you have a problem with God your maker well You have not ascended to the level of Atheist or blasphemers. Go and ask The Jews that Killed Jesus what happened to them?

Or Ask Tito of Yugoslavia how he was alive and was rottening. Please flee from his Wrath you no more intelligent than Ancient of days. You are mere human and one in billions of souls that God created. You have every right to say what you like to your maker but he has all the right to answer you, hope you will be ready when he calls.

He Is God when you were born you defeacated on your body he gave strength to you parents to look after you common sense will tell you when a seed falls to the ground and dies a less complex organism is reborn. i hope when you are resurected by God JESUS you will be able to give accuont of your life.