₦airaland Forum

cre8tivity:
that was the only time some of our laws were acknowledged.
our main problem in nigeria today is simply lawlessness. if our laws are sincerely recognized by everybody, half of our problems will be solved.
do you get it?

Which laws? And recognised by who, the overlords or the beaten masses?
It was just a time people spoke up at their own peril. Have you heard the of the saga of the 53 suitcases of raw cash? Laws my foot!

Chefo:
My nairalanders all these grammar wen Ibru de blow no bi because crude oil dey there ego soon finish na then urhobo go scatter abeg remember to include my own ishekpe state.  United we stand divided we fall.

Maybe you've not considered that the only thing holding up your "ishekpe" area is oil? If oil finishes today, rather than the Urhobo scattering, Nigeria will scatter into several disgracefully poverty stricken countries.

^
What concrete [b]development [/b]did Buhari and Idiagbon bring to the table? Aside from "do you know who I am?", "sit up or I beat you" etc? In what way did they advance the country?

cre8tivity:
the best way to answer your question is, regardless of who is leading nigeria or will be leading nigeria, i will be fine. but when we look at the bigger picture one has no choice but to pause and ask how long can we operate things in nigeria like this? we must try something different for the sake of tomorrow.

i hope i've finally answered your question.

We have had 35 years of military rule, what did it bring apart from the brutalisation of the Nigerian psyche with the introduction "do you know who I am?" mentality. Even on NL, we can't have an argument without resorting to blows.
Who institutionalised corruption, was it not the military? Who gave us the present dictatorial constitution where the president can be gone for 25 days with no replacement? There are too many ills to be mentioned.

The military are a fighting force, they are expert in the application of controlled and targetted violence; but, diplomacy is what is required for governance (especially for a country as diverse as ours).

4 Play:
So because Sonangol, in a show of hubris, bid and won a deal to produce oil in Iraq, Nigerians should feel bad?
. . .

Yes.

[size=14pt]Fighting Corruption with Hometown Outrage[/size]
Written by Moses Ochonu   
Friday, 18 December 2009 05:50

As we grope for direction and purpose in the fight against corruption, the recent gestures of Chief Edwin Clark may point us to a potentially effective strategy: the naming and shaming of corrupt politicians and businesspeople by their own kinsmen. Whatever we think of Chief Edwin Clark, his politics, and his motivations, let us acknowledge that the man has, perhaps inadvertently, crafted a template for intensifying the moral pressure on corrupt politicians.

In the last two months, a group of Delta State elders led by Chief Clark has trained its critical gaze on a fellow Deltan, Chief James Ibori, who, along with his associates, is facing a raft of corruption charges at home and abroad. Their rebuke of Ibori could not be shaper, or more stinging: Ibori ought to come clean on his alleged acts of corrupt self-enrichment and abandon the predictable canard of blaming “enemies” for his ethical and legal troubles.

Dismissing Ibori’s tantrums and newly minted rhetoric of victimhood, the group counseled the hounded ex-governor to take his predicament in the chin like a man and chalk it up to the inescapable karma of egregious political vice. To Ibori’s widely publicized claim that he is being persecuted for his position on “resource control,” the Delta elders retorted with unsparing outrage: his new resource control profile is a fable with purchase only in the ex-governor’s alternate reality. Then this zinger: Ibori “merely stole the money to enrich himself.”

Chief Clark raised his outrage a few more notches recently when he protested the University of Benin’s choice of Ibori as its convocation speaker.

This is a side of Clark that we have rarely seen: the willingness to go after political vice on the home front even while staking out a radical position that rejects federal fiscal overreach.

This is a new phase in Clark’s activism. He has now recognized that while federal malfeasance is implicated in the plight of Niger Deltans, the local brokers and agents of federal might have, with impunity, also dealt the region a devastating blow. Ibori has come to symbolize this convergence of federal might and local fiscal despotism in the Niger Delta. Clark and his group should be commended for calling attention to locally entrenched forces of corruption and waste.

They should also be praised for rising above the seduction of ethno-regional solidarity and hanging out one of their own to dry under the luminescent scrutiny of corruption-weary Nigerians.

This template needs to be cloned for nation-wide application. We need to plagiarize the moral angst of Chief Clark and his group of Delta State elders and redesign it into a bottom-up program of national moral reclamation.

We have watched as politicians accused of corruption have invoked and conscripted the primordial appeal of ethno-regional empathy, running under canopies erected for them by the he-may-be-a-thief-but-he-is-our-thief crowd. The proclamation of ethnic ownership over corruption has corroded every effort to confront our corruption problem.

The ethno-regional refuge has proven, time and again, to be the trump card of morally-depraved politicians. It has blunted the efficacy of shame as a deterrent to corruption and bad political behavior.

In the period when shame (or the threat of it) was our first line of defense against egregious political conduct, the ethnic group was the primary institution through which the ethic of shame was enforced. When a politician misbehaved, the first rebuke came from his own kinsmen and ethno-regional allies who felt sufficiently embarrassed to call their erring kinsman to order in the interest of preserving the collective integrity of the group.

That was then. The shame factor has since receded from our politics. It is no longer a moral deterrence. As corruption has mushroomed and culpability in it has proliferated, the shame of being labeled corrupt no longer carries the sting that it once did. But the biggest culprit in the undermining of shame as a firewall against political vice has been the expanding political boundaries of ethnic solidarity.

Did perverse ethnic solidarity spread the virus of impunity, or did the expansion of the corruption industry produce ethno-cultural toleration of political vice? It is hard to tell which caused which. No matter. We are now in a stalemate and we need a novel strategy to de-incentivize corruption.

We saw a typical exculpatory ethnic solidarity on crude, filthy display during the recent trial of Chief Bode George. In the elaborately choreographed theatre that accompanied the trial, a crowd of ethnic loyalists, rented though it may have been, constructed a cordon of moral approval around George, deluding him of his invincibility but also undercutting the unanimous ethical chastisement that his crimes call for.

The national institutions designed to shame and punish errant politicians have proven ineffective in the face of ethno-regional approval of crimes committed by ethnic citizens. In the clash between national citizenship and ethnic citizenship, the latter wins every time. Nigerians are wedded and beholden to the ethnic constituency, and so they dread the possibility of rejection by trusted kinsmen and women. The moral censure of a politician’s own ethnic group is thus a plague to be avoided. Conversely, politicians arrogantly mock the generic outrage of national critics when placard-carrying kinsmen are available to mitigate their moment of national disgrace.

We should clone the Edwin Clark model of kith and kin outrage and use it as a platform to treat our larcenous politicians to a dose of hometown hostility. The most legitimate unit of social identification and cultural association is the ethno-regional space. No Nigerian wants to lose face with their ethnic constituency. The moral outrage and disapproval of the ethnic base is thus a potent safeguard against corruption, and the shame of ethnic ostracism an effective deterrence against political crime.

So, here is how the Clark model should unfold across the nation. Whenever David Mark engages in his favorite pastime of haughtily rationalizing the unacceptable status quo, his Idoma kinsmen should lead the chorus of critique. Only when they have sufficiently shamed their son should they expect their non-Idoma compatriots to pile on the outrage.

In this spirit, the only critical commentary that would sting Yar’Adua into action or resignation will have to travel from Katsina to Abuja, not vice versa. The anti-Yar’Adua groundswell must be birthed in the disappointment of his Katsina kinsmen. Then, other Nigerians, seeing that the president has lost favor even among his kith and kin, will rise to take up the home-grown critique and give it a national resonance.

http://saharareporters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4575:fighting-corruption-with-hometown-outrage&catid=81:external-contrib&Itemid=300

edoyad:
Actually if you pay for the borehole and extraction of the water from it by yourself why not ? But in a case where the govt has to be the one to invest money to extract the water and make laws that pertain to modalities for It's extraction then the govt should own a fraction of it, dont you think ?

The govt has flunked seriously in that direction, the private sector can do a better job. Some examples of shoddy management:

[list]
[li]The Niger Delta one of the most polluted areas in the World (definitely the most polutted in Africa)[/li]
[li]After all these years, the FG has not been able to provide indegenous oil services (eg steel plants, oil rig manufacturing, electronics etc)[/li]
[li]Nigeria's development has stalled, rather oil has fuelled corruption, everyone is in a mad dash for oil (we lose $1.5 billion to bunkering mostly by the elite and ex generals)[/li]
[li]Cocao and the groundnut pyramids are history, all "development" waits for oil money[/li]
[/list]

The FG can make the laws, but it does not need to give money for extraction; that is the problem for the person on whose land the oil sits. The same should go for gold, tin, gems and whatever other minerals Nigeria has.
Our constituition is based on the US one, so why not treat oil the same as in the US? Simple answer is that oil is an easy avenue to loot huge sums; it doesn't serve Nigeria any good. Hillary Clinton, just before she arrived here, made a very telling statement. She said, it is a pity the foreigners know more about Nigeria than Nigerians and that only 1% of our population benefits from oil.

Sagamite:
Mate, too weak a comparison argument.

How?
My illustration showed up the deep flaws in your argument. Water from a borehole is dug up from under the gound every bit as is oil, therefore, by your argument 87% should go to the FG (if not, why is oil different?).

Sagamite:
You don't own it. It is natural deposit miles underneath the ground or offshore, you did not work for it.

Every kind of land has some kind of use. Even some things grow in the dessert. So that is not even an argument.

If you maintain you don't have fertile land, do something else with the land. For all I care, build a car park and charge people for use.

Work for your money.

The 87% going to government is for vital federal level projects which can include historical spillage clean-up. The 13% alone is significant enough to support or rearrange skills of locals on the short term.

Disingenuous.
Who owns the water in your borehole? The government? If you decide to sell that water, will anyone stop you? If not, why is oil different?

Sharia to be supreme to the constituition? Damn!

Does that mean that the union with the North West will be defined by some unknown marabout? The whole thing is just too ridiculous, aren't there any credible leaders from that area?
They are only signifying their disinterest in Nigeria, lets allow them leave to set up sharia paradise.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367629.msg5141029#msg5141029 date=1261152694]Iwu is a confirmed rigger. You should ask why the action was necessary before making your Iwu statement.[/quote]It's too late to ban Becomerich. Abi is todays date June 12?

snowdrops:
Yet again you have started your gibberish. What threat? Who cares who you are or the cave you live in.
Your problem is in your craze to make as many posts as possible on the boards you have completely lost the plot on this one.

Then shut up.

[quote author=THE.AMAKA link=topic=367629.msg5140098#msg5140098 date=1261144529]SHUT UP!!!!!
BEAF ISNT EVEN IGBO! DAMN!!
mind your own damn business and stop talking about me in every one of your comments.
you obsessed prick!
go through his posts.
amaka, chiogo, amaka, chiogo, amaka, chiogo.
you no get shame at all? biko, just cover your face.[/quote]Don't mind that Mexican clown. He won't go back to Mexico and leave 9ja for 9ja's. He is fast becoming NL's village *****.

Seun:
BecomeRich is hereby disqualified.

Iwu done land! Na dis one dem dey call proper rigging!

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367137.msg5140812#msg5140812 date=1261150912]Those are not refineries, but poison and carcinogenic chemical producing illegal operations.[/quote]Answer? Regulate them and give those heroes who have cracked the refining cycle incentive to build bigger and better plants. Better still, let FG hands off oil, they have only proven to be a conduit for big time bunkerers (those boys are very small fish).

“Look here, we have arrested some of these vessels in the past, only to be told to release them immediately by some big shots in the military. In fact now, they do not even wait for us to arrest any vessel. We are warned in advance to expect these vessels and not to interfere with them.

    “Some of those we had accosted in the past had mentioned names of notable retired military Generals who you least expect to be involved in all of this and when we called to verify, it turned out to be true.”

http://www.africanloft.com/retired-military-generals-engage-nigeria-in-oil-bunkering-war/

Better still, lets practice true federalism and the FG wouldn't need to bother about "illegal refineries" (any federating component would know how to encourage those boys for development).

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367137.msg5139491#msg5139491 date=1261139266]How can you forget about the bunkering criminals and exploiters of youths when the topic at hand is about illegal refineries? Helping the marginalized youths of the area and in fact the whole country is a different issue entirely.

Why is it difficult for you people to accept that these "refinery operators" are criminals? Would it be because they are from your tribe or region?[/quote]I would rather ask you if you find it difficult to accept that there is talent here because they are not from your "tribe or region". . . Low blow.
This is the difference in approach to "illegal" talent from a developed [/b]country;

Buffeted by millions of digital scans and attacks each day, federal authorities are looking for hackers — [b]not to prosecute them, but to pay them to secure the nation's networks.

General Dynamics Information Technology put out an ad last month on behalf of the Homeland Security Department seeking someone who could "think like the bad guy." Applicants, it said, must understand hackers' tools and tactics and be able to analyze Internet traffic and identify vulnerabilities in the federal systems.

And in the Pentagon's budget request submitted last week, Defense Secretary Robert Gates hung out his own help-wanted sign, saying the Pentagon will increase the number of cyber experts it can train each year from 80 to 250 by 2011.

Amid dire warnings that the U.S. is ill-prepared for a cyber attack, the White House conducted a 60-day study of how the government can better manage and use technology to protect everything from the nation's electrical grid and stock markets to tax data, airline flight systems, and nuclear launch codes.

President Barack Obama appointed former Bush administration aide Melissa Hathaway to head the effort, and her report was delivered Friday, the White House said.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/archive/US-Is-Hiring-Hackers-For-Protection.html

JProspero:
We always believe that a place is only viable if it has oil. Meanwhile the richest countries of the world are not the oil-producing countries. Again, before oil was discovered in Nigeria, Nigeria was richer and happier than today. If I had my way, I would burn all the oil in Nigeria and see if Nigerians will die. This oil has so much made us lazy and unimaginative.

If we go by oil production, then the [b]towns [/b]of Bayelsa and Rivers should be carved into states.

Pls let us discuss serious problems that face us.

Is Urhobo a town?
I don't see why you mentioned Bayelsa. Is it not an Ijaw state? If there is Bayelsa, why not an Urhobo state? If there are Ekiti, Ondo, Ebonyi and kebbi why not an Urhobo state?
The reality in Nigeria is that viability = oil. Period. We produce nothing and are not showing any willingness to produce anything, until the day we start thinking differently don't compare us to the rest of the World.

This is a quotation from the topic and the genesis of Nigeria's problems (which the majority of us wish to sweep under the carpet):

REPEAL OF ALL OBNOXIOUS LAWS

We call for the repeal of all obnoxious laws which have contributed to the subjugation and exploitation of the Urhobo people and Niger Deltans. Among these are:

1. The Petroleum Decree of 1969, which dispossessed the Niger Deltans of their God-given resources.
2. The Territorial Waters Acts, Cap.428, (Laws of the Federation of Nigeria, 1990) which seized water resources of the Niger Delta.
3. The Exclusive Economic Zone Act, Cap 116 (LFN, 1990)
4. The Land Use Act Cap. 220 (LFN, 1990)
5. The Revenue Allocation Act Cap. 16.
6. The Oil Navigable Act Cap. 337.
7. The Oil Terminal Dues Act Cap. 339.
8. Petroleum Production and Distribution Anti-Sabotage Act. Cap. 3354 Oil Pipeline Act Cap. 338.
9. Associated Gas Re-Injection Act Cap. 26.
10. National Inland Waterways Authority Act.
11. Petroleum Profit Tax Act Cap. 354.
12. Revenue Mobilisation, Allocation and Fiscal Commission Act Cap. 392.
13. Minerals and Mining Act No. 34, 1999.
14. Lands (Title Vesting, etc) Act

FISCAL FEDERALISM:

We advocate a return to the Fiscal Federalism Principle (ownership and control of resources by states), which was the Revenue Allocation Principle in the 1960-63 Nigeria constitution. Under that constitution, each region retained 50% of revenue generated from the region.

The restoration of fiscal federalism must include the repeal of section 44 (3) of the 1999 Constitution which provides that: “Notwithstanding the foregoing provision of this section, the entire property in and control of all minerals, mineral oils and natural gas in, under or upon any land in Nigeria or in, under or upon the territorial waters and the Exclusive Economic Zone of Nigeria shall vest in the Government of the Federation and shall be managed in such manner as may be prescribed by the National Assembly.”

citizenY:
@ Beaf,

From the judgment, it appears that the investigation and subsequent prosecution was rather
shoddy. I have a sneaky feeling that this was deliberate ly designed to produce this outcome.
The court set up in Asaba, from scratch and the role of the Delta state government in its establishment
and also not even whimpering about the stolen funds, contributed.

In the final analysis, na siddon look we dey. I no fit talk for anybody again.

All na arangee, but don't forget it is a federal govt court (whether in Asaba or not); the "gods" have spoken.

@citizenY
He is 99.99% likely to win any case in Nigeria. That is obvious.
We need to find creative ways to throw off the yoke of corruption, nothing is working.

okunoba:
what stops the private sector from building refineries? I know of one individual in America that owns more than 4 refineries, what stops Nigerians from doing the same. Could it be the government ?

It is govt, a blind one at that!
The FG has a stranglehold on the land, property and oil resources. . . every miniscle thing to do with the oil business (thats why ND can't clean up pollution - land belongs to FG). The FG has repeatedly proven itself a poor manager, yet it will not allow individuals into areas were we need technological advancement.

What we are witnessing, is an attempt to shut down innovation. It is talent that has been suppressed and oppressed and has now found outlet in illegality. But rather than build a framework to harness their inventiveness, we are destroying their handywork and making them out as criminals first (and nothing else next).

citizenY!  
Some types of mischief are over the bar. This a very bad prayer.

Abagworo:
Why should urhobo state be created?is there an ikwerre state,igbo state,hausa state,tiv state,kanuri state,yoruba state etc.
States should not be named based on ethnicity.

Those already largely exist. What are the wazobia states based on?

@JProspero
The difference between "Surulere State, Ilorin State, Osogbo State, Birnin Kebbi State" etc and an Urhobo state is clearer than daylight.
The Urhobo state is based on sound economics and it is viable, how much revenue can the other places mentioned generate? An Urhobo state can even thrive as a country in its own right, while those other places are barely surviving.
It is insulting to the Urhobo people to compare their proposed state to a few economically underperforming towns; a large proportion of the nations GDP derives from Urhobo land.

VALIDATOR:
Illegal refineries are detrimental to the nations short term economic development but may be beneficial to the nation's long term technological and hence economic development only if those refineries are locally fabricated by Nigerians.

Illegal refineries get illegal crude oil,refine and sell mainly to outside Nigeria in the international black market without paying any tax to Nigeria. That is why it will not help our economy right now.It will only enrich the few people directly involved and mind you the must keep their business hush hush.

However, if our people actually made those refineries ^{and not some dubious Asians} then we need to encourage them more and we may very well be on our way to localizing the technology of refineries.

The refineries are 100% locally made. They differ widely in complexity, some are incredidibly crude and add to the damage to the environment; others are highly sophisticated (some manned by unemployed chemical engineers and other professionals) and need to be regulated by govt, instead of being destroyed.

These boys have shown that refining fuel isn't rocket science and we can seize a great percentage of our oil industry. But, as usual, the FG will never believe Nigerians are capable until the day they start seeing illegal oil wells .

We need true federalism, so that the ND can control its destiny and harness Nigerian talent.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367137.msg5136723#msg5136723 date=1261097644]Mitigating circumstance ko, marginalization circumstance ni. Who is talking about the marginalized unemployed youth  of the niger delta?  Those boys don't have the resources to bring in all the apparatus required to perpetrate the said crimes. We are talking about the educated criminals that exploit these boys.

I too have seen these bootleg refineries, some of them are quite sophisticated. The real criminals are members of the cartel that are bunkering criminals and expoiters of the youths. Don't even try to defend them, they belong in prison! These same criminals are now threatening to attack JTF.  Let them try it.[/quote]Forget about "bunkering criminals and expoiters of the youths". That will lead to a whole new argument, lets deal with the boys who build these things.

One very pertinent question is, why have "the educated criminals that exploit these boys" been able to spot and harness a talent that the FG has never been able to spot or harness?
All over the World, inventive talent is treated as a national treasure, why is Nigeria different?

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367137.msg5135770#msg5135770 date=1261085967]Stop the pitiful defense of these criminals! Most of the crude they use is stolen and even if they did not steal the crude, is it not criminal to operate a bootleg refinery? Being jobless and in need of job opportunities is not a license to become a criminal - you of all people should know this.[/quote]No, that is by a black and white interpretation of the law. But anywhere in this World, there is something known as "mitigating circumstances"; for these people it is so great that I doubt they can even be tried in court.
They have no jobs, yet they can't fish or farm and because of the terrain, there are no industries or jobs nearby. Its a terrible existence.

snowdrops:
How are we sure you are not one of the crooks?

Abeg, go and hide!

snowdrops:
Beaf we all know you now. Na tolerate we dey tolerate you.
Afterall your cage for Ibadan zoo still dey empty.
When you ready, tell the porter to give you your night meds.

What is that meant to be? Another threat?
Sorry, you can't know who I am. I can sign on as who I like, identities are a dime to the dozen.

You people think you own the World and power is to be abused. Believe me, it really isn't clever.

snowdrops:
Beaf beaf.
I am now on travel section vomitting my usual nonsense.
I am the village slowpoke come and save me.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6

Ode.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=367137.msg5135637#msg5135637 date=1261084564]you people have proven time and again that you adore your criminals, be they petty thieves who distill stolen raw materials or big thieves like ibori or cecilia. shame on you all. what is bad, is bad. shikena.[/quote]I've seen one of these refineries. They weren't using stolen crude, no it was crude from an oil spill that had gone on for years (and is still likely to be going on). I assume its the same for others, agreed some might be bunkering, but what are their options when they have no jobs yet, their farmland is polluted and all fish in the water have been poisoned by oil?
These people have valuable skill that need to be harnessed. Their trade should be regulated and maybe we will be able to build our very own refineries with experience and some education. Why would we need Snamprogetti?

snowdrops:
@ orisebawo

You talk as if everywhere in naija is lagos and abuja. During your trip to Nigeria, did you visit warri, benin, the eastern states, ph, bayelsa, the list goes on.

Na so una go dey talk nonesense. No be Wafi I dey?
I bet you have never visited Warri in your life.

You have little to fear. I'm in between Lagos and Warri this period, just came in as well. There are a thousand and one places to go in both places where you can chill out with pals peppersouping and suyaing into the night. There are night clubs. . .
Come home and flex to the max dude, just make sure you are always in an area where your flexing ain't out of place (only kres man go flex for Oshodi ).
Nigeria is sweet, everybody is so damn happy.

People will always be able to pick you out wherever you go (na only you go dey sweat for night wen cold dey catch oda pipul), so you need some modicum of common sense in your appearance and speech, above all, when you want to buy something like oranges, remember it is NAIRA, don't ask how many dollars for one orange; na bringing out be dat.

OAM4J:
You know beaf, when I read the story at punch website, I remembered your pridiction. May be you should become a prophet, I will be your treasurer/accountant what do you think?  

Abi o!
If we no make am like church, people no go come pay us tithes and offerings.
Becomerich will even help us draw the maps!

agathamari:
@beaf. then pretell why is any non nigerian says even the slightest thing about how they disagree with anything in/about nigeria they are automaticaly branded as evil/racist/whitewashed? if we are all permited our own opinion why does it apear to be onesided?

My dear, Its in two parts.

[list]
[li]Very many people are too quick to speak[/li]
[li]Every opinion is relative and born of unique circumstances, but in the extended family society that pervades Nigeria, societal preferences very strongly overule the individual, therefore values are intrinsically onesided. The extended family society is our only safety net[/li]
[/list]